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Zertz and Dvonn implementation for Windows and Linux   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #81 of 95 |
Re: [Zertz] Zertz and Dvonn implementation for Windows and Linux

I played with the tournament rules. After trying
several "standard" rules games I came to the
conclusion that they are fundamentally less
interesting because one can never be put into a
position where you have to win by a method other than
claiming white marbles. With 5 total white marbles
someone can always claim 3. In the tournament
version, the 6 available white marbles can be split
3-3 (as they often are in advanced play) and one has
to alter ones strategy.

The Zertz AI violates the fundamental principle of
opening strategy on the small board. There is a
forced win for the second player if the first player:

1) Plays the first marble on the edge of the board, or

2) removes a non-corner ruing in the first move.

Lesson 1 was brought home to me in my first serious
game on Richard's PBEM server! Rule 2 was only
pointed out to me somewhat later and I was able to
verify.

At a minimum I would suggest changing the AI so that
it never fell into one of these two traps (the
equivalent of a Fool's Mate in chess). There is a way
in these situations for the second player to force the
capture of two white marbles while giving up 1 white,
2 grey and 3 black and leaving an empty board. Then
no matter where the first player plays on the now
empty board, the second player can gain an additional
two whites.

An interesting next step would be to make sure that
the AI knows how to take advantage of either of these
two mistakes! The first is easier to deal with. It
essentially entails isolating the marble into a corner
and I believe in no case involves allowing the first
player an unforced move. Some of the cases for rule 2
lead to situations where you have to allow an unforced
choice of captures even though both branches lead to
the desired result.

Cheers,

Lyman

--- Martin Trautmann <martintrautmann@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> sorry, I missed to mention the homepage of Holtz:
> http://holtz.sf.net/
> Download:
> http://holtz.sf.net/down.php
>
> kind regards,
>
> Martin
>
> Am Montag, den 03.09.2007, 14:39 -0700 schrieb Lyman
> Hurd:
> > I for one would love to help test. Can you let us
> > know where to download the latest? I mainly have
> > access to Windows systems but can find a Linux one
> if
> > needed!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Lyman
>
>
>




Tue Sep 4, 2007 12:39 am

lhurd
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Message #81 of 95 |
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Hi, I just released a new version of Holtz (1.2.0) which now allows to play Zertz and Dvonn locally, over network, and against a simple AI. It can also load...
Martin Trautmann
mattrautmann
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Sep 3, 2007
8:07 pm

I for one would love to help test. Can you let us know where to download the latest? I mainly have access to Windows systems but can find a Linux one if ...
Lyman Hurd
lhurd
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Sep 3, 2007
9:40 pm

Hi, sorry, I missed to mention the homepage of Holtz: http://holtz.sf.net/ Download: http://holtz.sf.net/down.php kind regards, Martin...
Martin Trautmann
mattrautmann
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Sep 3, 2007
11:54 pm

I played with the tournament rules. After trying several "standard" rules games I came to the conclusion that they are fundamentally less interesting because...
Lyman Hurd
lhurd
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Sep 4, 2007
12:40 am

Hi Lyman, thank you very much for your suggestions. ... I just had the intention to implement the rules from the board game. My instructions explained it like...
Martin Trautmann
mattrautmann
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Sep 4, 2007
9:56 am

In terms of terminology I really like the names Michael Reitz came up with: Basic Game (37 rings, 5+7+9 marbles) Standard Game (37 rings, 6+8+10 marbles) ...
Lyman Hurd
lhurd
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Sep 4, 2007
1:29 pm

Hi, ... Sounds like a great idea. The new release 1.2.1 adopted to these names. I hope all SF mirrors are already serving the new files. Martin...
Martin Trautmann
mattrautmann
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Sep 5, 2007
9:12 pm

hi Martin, thanks again for your hard work implementing these! ... To quote Stephen Taverner at BGG: "the first copies of the rings came with 37 rings, and the...
jpreen
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Sep 7, 2007
6:55 pm

... Fame at last ;) Stephen Tavener, but you got my first name correct, so you're forgiven. ... There are two approaches that might produce a good AI. One...
Stephen Tavener
mrraowuk
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Sep 11, 2007
8:47 pm

Hi James, thank you very much for testing. ... Dvonn and Zertz are currently completely independent and thus can't take player settings from one game to the...
Martin Trautmann
mattrautmann
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Sep 4, 2007
4:57 pm

I do not know what they use on LittleGolem, but I helped implement the declustering rules on Richard's PBEM server. I can send along specifics after I look ...
Lyman Hurd
lhurd
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Sep 4, 2007
6:28 pm
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