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Reply | Forward Message #100450 of 105514 |
Re:SV: Antw: RE: [wifdiscussion] Re: Defending USSR

Herbert, your points are spot on and I agree (and have repeatedly)
with all of them. The mistake you're making is the same one I
originally made - you believe this is a genuine and objective call for
help. That a follower of WiF has become so disillusioned because of a
strategy and needs help to overcome the strategy and regain his faith
in the design and balance of this great game.

But I feel there enough evidence now that it was really a disingenuous
attempt to try and show off the strategy itself.

Hakon claimed to be an atheist (which was a rather odd claim in
relation to WiF) but the point he was making was, and I quote from
message 100306;

"And if you are not able to defend YOUR claims, but rather make it
from a faith based assumption that "every strategy has a counter
strategy", it seems rather hollow to me. Though, as an atheist, I'm
not very used to believing things simply based on faith."

Yet, how many times has he admitted to not seeing a suggested counter,
but then dismissed it out of hand based on one of his own "massed
armor" will do this and something else will do that? He seems to have
PLENTY of faith in his own assumptions.

As you've quite rightly pointed out (as I and others have), dismissing
the ridiculous restriction on Russia's defence options - or even
contemplating some different sets of optional rules - have all been
dismissed. Now if he was really genuine about getting his group
around this game breaker, wouldn't he consider just about any fix?

But his disingenuousness that has pee'd me off the most is his public
posts about a match up. He's tried to gain some sort of legitimacy or
traction by suggesting that I've got "cold feet" or am no longer
responding because of a lack of confidence. I have zero interest in
playing a farce with zero bids, Hakon's rules including house rule,
and a virtual script – which I've posted. But beyond this, I live in
Australia (posted) and have absolutely no intention of playing to
Hakon's suggested timetables which equate to midnight to 7am on my
Monday's, or the alternative is to play similar time's midweek!




--- In wifdiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "Herbert Gratz"
<herbert.gratz@...> wrote:
>
> Hakon, I got an excellent idea on how to avoid a super-Balbo in your
> games: allow stuffing. Thios solves it at one stroke.
>
> Actually, it is a bit pointless to have this conversation at all: has
> anybody else, who IS playing with stuffing, run into a Hakon-type
> super-Balbo? If not, then perhaps your difficulties are due to chucking
> a key-element of the Russo-German balance of power.
>
> As far as most of the points go: I think that in the discussion you
> make the Axis force go much further than you'd ever be able to on table.
> With your indicated build structure there is nowhere in hell you can get
> all this stuff by M/J 41. Even assuming 0 losses up to then. I'd suggest
> that you keep track of your opponents builds if they play this strategy
> and see that they don't put an extra unit or two on the traxck each
> turn! :-) (Only joking but it just doesn't pan out.)
>





Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:55 am

ecka65
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Forward
Message #100450 of 105514 |
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It seems that the conversation/exchange of views has taken a turn for the worse. Needlessly imo. Since I didn't imply cheating, just perhaps getting away with...
Herbert Gratz
herbertgratz
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Jan 14, 2009
12:41 pm

Herbert, your points are spot on and I agree (and have repeatedly) with all of them. The mistake you're making is the same one I originally made - you believe...
ecka65
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Jan 14, 2009
10:55 am

... A suggesten you didn't even bother to respond to.... In my latest mail to you, oback and tom on this, I also suggested alternatives that would let you play...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 14, 2009
12:14 pm

... alternatives that would let you play at daytime during weekends, though those times seem to crash with the timetables of our american players (at least...
ecka65
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Jan 14, 2009
12:58 pm

... I didnt specify an exact time, but my saturday evening would be your sunday morning, and my friday evening would be your saturday morning. It appears that...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 14, 2009
1:23 pm

Awww...c'mon guys...I was looking forward to game reports!!!;-) C ... your initial assertion (ie that Super-Balbo has a counter strategy that does not require...
jagdtiger14
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Jan 14, 2009
4:29 pm

Too Bad... it looks like our game is not going to happen. For the record, Ecka, I did clearly state in my email to you: please post the times that you are...
oblack_lancero
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Jan 15, 2009
7:40 am

... No, never said that. I feel if the Russian has got the guts to defend forward and try to hold the garrison ratio than good luck to them for trying. It...
ecka65
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Jan 15, 2009
10:08 am

... This same argument has come up before. That time, iirc, the auther (don't quite remember who) didn't really mean that Stalin should be able to DOW in 1940,...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 15, 2009
11:51 am

I caught this discussion a bit on the tail side and have been going through the archive looking for a definition of Super Balbo. Can somebody just redefine it...
Gudmundur Jonsson
bigoilslackey
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Jan 15, 2009
12:02 pm

Super-Balbo is a term that was first created on the MWiF forums that is used to describe an all out attack on Russia in 1941, preferrably by all 3 axis powers....
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 15, 2009
12:43 pm

Fearfull strategy : I don't know how to counter that, maybe a russian depth defense, no stuffing at the border. The allies can send all the BPs they can to...
Michel Desjardins
micheljq
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Jan 15, 2009
1:52 pm

... Certainly they may, but by controlling Turkey and the Caucasus, the Germans can use rail to relocate between fronts, while the British need to use...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 15, 2009
2:53 pm

The railroad in Turkey is long and curves a lot in the south of the country. The british in 1941 can muster a sizeable force and try to cut it from different...
Michel Desjardins
micheljq
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Jan 15, 2009
3:53 pm

I'd actually forgotten about railing through Istanbul. Except for sending the 4 corps required to align Spain to Syria, I've never started pushing southwards...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 15, 2009
4:15 pm

I think you refer to playing with Limited Access across Straits in a later post. This severely restricts what you can get into and through Turkey. The times...
paulderynck
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Jan 15, 2009
10:29 pm

... I answered this in an earlier post....
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 15, 2009
10:53 pm

What I'd prefer to see and believe is more relevant is if the "Super Balbo" strategy can be implemented under RAW. If so, then a strategy has indeed been...
ecka65
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Jan 16, 2009
12:47 am

I think it can, if not quite as powerful as you can get if the USSR isn't allowed to stuff. In 1940, the Germans can ensure the Italians have 5 bp/turn by...
Christopher Askwith
abishai_ju87
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Jan 16, 2009
3:17 am

Fly in the ointment to the below: the Italians do have to have some way to get their aircraft around the German border zone since they cannot fly through it....
Christopher Askwith
abishai_ju87
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Jan 16, 2009
4:31 am

... a fix is required or even of much interest. The pact and garrison rule(s) work both ways for both parties involved and are not optional. It's you that are...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 16, 2009
10:30 am

... a fix is required or even of much interest. The pact and garrison rule(s) work both ways for both parties involved and are not optional. It's you that are...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 16, 2009
10:31 am

... Now I do it for amusement. ... OK, I'll bite. Explain how Italy conquering Hungary makes stuffing harder and is good Axis strategy? As for Italy...
ecka65
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Jan 16, 2009
12:09 pm

... Elementary. With a common border with the USSR, the Italians (which for some reason in WiF are much braver than the Germans when faced with the Russian...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 16, 2009
12:54 pm

... for some reason in WiF are much braver than the Germans when faced with the Russian monster) can DOW first, and either ground strike or ZOC enough russians...
ecka65
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Jan 16, 2009
2:03 pm

... Assuming USSR claims East Poland, which seems pretty standard, then the common border for Hungaryis on Hex 2529 and 2429. If Hungary got Transilvania then...
lavisj
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Jan 16, 2009
2:13 pm

... the ... My apology. I was trying to decipher it via the pictures on boardgamegeek. 0125 hrs here, at work. I always felt Russia was a little too...
ecka65
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Jan 16, 2009
2:47 pm

If Italy DOWs USSR while the neutrality pact between USSR and Germany is in effect, the italian units in the neutrality zone (3 hexes from the common border),...
Michel Desjardins
micheljq
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Jan 16, 2009
6:24 pm

That's why Italy conquers Poland and/or Hungary, so as to not be within 3 hexes of the common border. ... Germany ... from ... that ... war ... already, ... ...
kenzclark
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Jan 16, 2009
6:37 pm

... for some reason in WiF are much braver than the Germans when faced with the Russian monster) can DOW first, and either ground strike or ZOC enough russians...
howho0
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Jan 16, 2009
3:05 pm
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