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Reply | Forward Message #100442 of 105515 |
RE: Re:SV: Antw: RE: [wifdiscussion] Re: Defending USSR

Well, here seems to be another thing you can try in an actual game to
see if super-Balbo can be stopped.

>>> Håkon Fløystad <hakon.floystad@...> 13.01.2009 23:21 >>>
> I still think it's worth the US entry to prevent Italy from
> having the initiative in '39 and '40 in the Med.

I don't claim to know which is better. I am pretty certain, though,
that it's not worth it for Italy to dow first in 1939.

And if you play vs me, then you needn't worry too much about stopping
me from threatening Egypt, since I'm not planning on doing that anyway.

> A thought: has your CW player ever sent in max HQs to Russia
> along with a plethora of ground strikers in order to blunt
> the attack of the Italian super-air force? Seems to me that
> you could have 11 units in Russia as well, including a couple
> CW AT stacks with supporting aircraft to take over a few key
> hexes (Crimean peninsula entrance hex for example).

It certainly has been talked about, but I think the most that I've seen
is 2-3 CW hq, and they have mostly been keeping to the north, in fear of
being cut off from supply. 1 turn of bad luck, and the entire force is
likely to die.

11 units, that would include all your HQ's (ie no pulling them out
after dropping off the forces). 2 stacks, thats 6 out of those those 11
units, of which 2 will be HQ-I. To keep the stacks fully mechanized
would require 8 land units. That leaves room for 3 planes, while
allowing Italy and Germany to send pretty much all they've got of
reserves to compensate.

I remember setting it up, once. It didnt look quite as fearsome on the
map, as it did in theory. And if you're a bit unlucky, those units flip
at some point, and Germany just bypass you, keeping you out of supply.
After that, your units can more or less be considered out of the game
for good :)

It would be fun to see someone try, though, but I personally think that
other tactics can achieve more at significantly less risk.

Cheers
Hakon



Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:44 am

herbertgratz
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Message #100442 of 105515 |
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... I don't claim to know which is better. I am pretty certain, though, that it's not worth it for Italy to dow first in 1939. And if you play vs me, then you...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 13, 2009
10:21 pm

Well, here seems to be another thing you can try in an actual game to see if super-Balbo can be stopped. ... I don't claim to know which is better. I am pretty...
Herbert Gratz
herbertgratz
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Jan 14, 2009
8:45 am

SA couple thoughts: The first is that even if you aren't playing with super-Balbo I think early CW aggression against Italy is essential, at least until the...
kenzclark
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Jan 14, 2009
4:09 pm

I should think that the CW cannot stack in a hex with Soviet forts as they do not cooperate. The CW cannot build forts in the USSR as it does not control those...
sajbalk@...
sajbalk
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Jan 14, 2009
4:39 pm

Forts aren't units. They are markers. I think, though, that the point is not clear and it is difficult to know what the right answer is given the unclarity. ...
kenzclark
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Jan 14, 2009
4:59 pm

I think it is a bit of a Mad Max strategy and not particular realistic, but since we are already engaging in a bit of fantasy: if you really want to go down...
Herbert Gratz
herbertgratz
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Jan 15, 2009
8:07 am

... This would require Monty, I think, since you only have 8 reorg factors on your pre-41 HQ. (Which would allow you to have a maximum of Wavell, one arm/mec,...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 15, 2009
11:29 am

... factors on your pre-41 HQ. (Which would allow you to have a maximum of Wavell, one arm/mec, 1art and 6 aircraft at max.) And unless the USSR is at war with...
kenzclark
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Jan 15, 2009
8:21 pm

... Or Japan could control the railroad in Persia, or something like that, unless the CW dow'd at the same time that the USSR did. ... Or a mar div, if it's...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 15, 2009
10:19 pm

... M/J '41 ... that, unless the CW dow'd at the same time that the USSR did. ... You'd have to make sure that Japan wasn't set up to take the appropriate...
kenzclark
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Jan 15, 2009
11:41 pm

Shoot, I just realized you already took into account the lack of offensive blitz modifiers. It's still an assault though. ... as ... a ... talking ... the ......
kenzclark
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Jan 15, 2009
11:45 pm

... Russian can sacrifice a couple extra units to give the CW 1 or 2 more impulses to get in position. "A couple" will not give you 3 impulses before Germany...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 20, 2009
7:19 am

I was wondering when you were going to reply to this post! Thank you spam filter. To briefly answer some of your points: I never play with no-zoc on...
kenzclark
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Jan 20, 2009
3:22 pm

Italians in Sardinia in set-up? I don't have my Scenario book in front of me, but can anybody but Balbo go in Sardinia on set-up? [Non-text portions of this...
tfancher@...
tfancher27
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Jan 20, 2009
4:01 pm

No, but neither do they have to. Italy has 2 impulses before the CW can declare. That's just enough for getting a corps home from Ethiopia or Libya. It will be...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 20, 2009
4:17 pm

Well, kinda. I was turning over in my mind how I would set up with Italy, keeping in mind what I generally do as the CW. Assume the CW pushes its CV's into...
tfancher@...
tfancher27
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Jan 20, 2009
4:36 pm

Hmm looks like we have been playing this wrong. Usually our group sets up one of the "Italy or Albania" INF corps in the mountains... That being said, if you...
kenzclark
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Jan 20, 2009
4:47 pm

Actually an 18 is fine, so don't roll a 7 or less. ... down ... in ... moved ... you ... for ... succeed ... with ... naval ... CW...
kenzclark
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Jan 20, 2009
4:50 pm

Yes, provided a few "if's", you can take Sardinia. Of course IF italy starts with a white print lnd3, they may rebase the MTN into Cagliary, instead of a corps...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 20, 2009
5:57 pm

Sardinia is by no means a guaranteed win, but unless Italy does a few things early on it's easy to deny them the resource hex. You can always set up Balbo...
kenzclark
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Jan 20, 2009
6:28 pm

... As Russia, I prefer to keep my units in supply and not cut off. Any cp in the black sea is goint to be sunk sooner or later. Quite possibly on the first...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 20, 2009
4:09 pm

You are challenging players to try to defeat your "Super-Balbo" and as the Axis player you want no ZOC on surprise and no Food in Flames. Maybe you should list...
jagdtiger14
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Jan 20, 2009
4:49 pm

We never play with either of those, although FiF would be useful in a Super-Balbo for sure. ... as ... I ... is...
kenzclark
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Jan 20, 2009
4:55 pm

First of all, I was not the one starting the challenges. I think that may have been Tom, but I don't remember. As for no-ZOC-on-surprise, that was with Ecka,...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 20, 2009
6:04 pm

Håkon Fløystad <hakon.floystad@...> wrote: And as for food-in-flames, that's more of a bargaining chip... :) I know - let's trade Food in Flames for...
Wendell
wifwendell
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Jan 20, 2009
9:31 pm

I was thinking more in terms of trading it for the no-surprised-zoc option. No stuffing is a given for Super Balbo. Cheers Hakon Fra:...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 20, 2009
9:37 pm

You do like to stack this in the favor of the Axis, don't you? You hold a relatively benign economic option - which will give the CW 3 pp/turn, and give...
Wendell
wifwendell
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Jan 20, 2009
9:45 pm

As I've written several times before, I believe, we've been playing RAW oil. And where do you take your Food in Flames option from? The Global Economy option...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 20, 2009
9:58 pm

That is incorrect. Option 29 food in flames gives the CW up to 3 extra PP for each of India, Australia, and South Africa they transport a resource to England...
RG1066@...
rgause1066
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Jan 20, 2009
10:07 pm

Ok, I see that this changed in version 7m, now. So only 23 bp pre-barb now. But instead it increases from 1942 and on. Cheers Hakon ...
Håkon Fløystad
hfloystad
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Jan 20, 2009
10:58 pm
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