We can get in trouble with GW for posting stats on models or weapons.

The Multi-Melta is just a bit stronger with maybe double the range of
a meltagun.  Same for the Plasma-Cannon, which used to use a blast
template. I'm not sure if they're allowing it on Dreadnaughts anymore.

i have the chaos space marine codex and my dreadnought may equip those a multi
melta or a plasma cannon, now i have in my codex in the summary plasma guns and
meltaguns but not multi meltas or plasma cannons

if its in the rulebook ill ask my friend (as he has the rulebook)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i suppose i forgot that terminators arent automatically fearless, and i use
marks of khorne on em all, and is why they are fearless

my bad to whomever i confused


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
  The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Unless there is a special rule in the Codex for a unit, once you are
locked in CC, you cannot run away.  Hence the term "locked."  If you
lose CC and fail your Leadership test, your unit retreats, but the
winner might catch you in a Sweeping Advance and wipe your remaining
troops out. (ppg. 36-49 of the 4th ed. Rulebook)

Walkers (ie: Dreadnaughts) fight in Assaults just like Infantry do,
only they have Armour Value rather than Toughness.  In an Assault,
Walkers always use their front armour value, so there is no need to
keep turning the model. (pg. 72, 4th ed. Rulebook)

Rapid fire weapons can be fired twice at half range (usually 12") or
once up to their maximum range (usually 24").  If you fire a rapid
fire weapon in the shooting phase, no matter how many times, you
CANNOT assault with that unit. (pg. 29, 4th ed. Rulebook)

In the 4th ed. rulebook, rules for melta and plasma ("gets hot!") are
on ppg. 30-31.  For specific stats, they are listed in the Codex.  In
the 3rd ed. codex it was on pg. 15, I don't know where they are in
the new SM Codex.

Unless the Chaos SM Codex says Terminators are Fearless, they are not
(regular SM Term. are not).

It all depends on who gets the marks, the unit or the HQ.  If the
unit gets them, it wouldn't matter if the HQ dies or not, they remain
fearless as they have the mark.  If only the HQ get the mark, then
unless the Codex states so, a unit the HQ is attached to wouldn't
benefit from it anyway.

Again, it all goes back to the wording in the codex.

can you run away from close combat?

also, can you turn around and stuff if in close combat?
(for dreadnought and similarities, can you turn around so that your
rear armor is not exposed?)

and how would stuff like that work?



also just to throw this out


how does the rapid fire work? like can i move and shoot? and if so
how many shots do i get? stuff like that - thanks

what are plasma cannons and multi meltas?

and if so, where would i find it?

i know that, giving marks of khorne of slaanash makes them fearless, and
terminators are fearless to start out with


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
  Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do good.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If the HQ and Retinue are all in Termin. Armour, they may Deep Strike.

The only Chaos units I know of that are fearless are Greater Daemons
and Daemon Princes (maybe Obliterators?) and they are Independant
Characters, so there are no retinues or squads who benefit from that
special rule.

--- In warhammer40krulesadvisor@yahoogroups.com, "wingzerosl"
<wingzerosl@y...> wrote:
>
> if i have a retinue of terminators and i deep strike, can i take
> along my hq?
A retinue is taken as part of the HQ, so they must stay together,
even if they Deep Strike.




> i would not have an hq on the board, and all i would have would be
2
> troop squads
That does not matter unless the scenario rules state otherwise.



> i techniqually have a troop choice, but idk if thats legal
still...
> someone help me?
>
>
> also if my hq dies, what happens? does anything happen? im chaos
> space marines and most of my guys are fearless anyway, but i
wonder
> if my havocs are gonna be like on crack or something
The answer to this will be somewhere in your Codex.It will also
depend a great deal on which faction of CSMs you feild.As far as I
know no CSMs "freak out" from the loss of their HQ, but then again,
I am not a CSM know-it-all...

if i have a retinue of terminators and i deep strike, can i take
along my hq?

i would not have an hq on the board, and all i would have would be 2
troop squads

i techniqually have a troop choice, but idk if thats legal still...
someone help me?


also if my hq dies, what happens? does anything happen? im chaos
space marines and most of my guys are fearless anyway, but i wonder
if my havocs are gonna be like on crack or something

*Homer Simpson voice* D'Oh!  I meant to press "3" but got "2"
instead! I guess I should double check what I type. :\

Anyway, from what I've read, Seraphim are considered jump infantry
and should follow all the associated rules for them, in additon to
what the SOB codex says (which I've never read).

--- In warhammer40krulesadvisor@yahoogroups.com, "Karandras"
<karandras_the_shadow@y...> wrote:
>
> Figured I'd just save time and provide info on all three of the
above
> topics.
>
>
> **CLOSE COMBAT**
>
> --- In
warhammer40krulesadvisor@yahoogroups.com, "brothercaptainrace"
> <pauking1@j...> wrote:
> >> Each model gets +1 Attack for being equiped with a close combat
> >> weapon and a pistol.  Some special rules, such as Furious
Charge,
> >> give other bonuses for charging.  Models that didn't make base-
to-
> >> base contact still add 1 (and only 1) attack if they are within
2"
> >> of the enemy.
>
> In the 4th edition rules, models within 2" of a FRIENDLY model
that
> is in base-to-base contact with an enemy get ALL of their attacks
> including any special attacks/wargear they have.
>
> Also, units that charge get +1 attack (unless something prevents
this
> such as the True Grit skill).
>
> To the original poster of the Close Combat querry:  your friend is
> right, in 4th edition, Close Combat is quick, brutal, and rather
> decisive.  But with Berserkers, most often it is you that will
come
> out the back side of close combat as the victor having crushed
your
> opponent's unit one way or the other.   ;-)
>
>
> **HIT AND RUN**
>
> I can't comment directly on the Seraphim as I don't have a WH
codex.
> But I will provide info based on using Warp Spiders in my Eldar
army -
>  take it for what it is worth: same-same, but different.
>
> Warp Spiders can voluntarily fall back if still locked in close
> combat at the end of the Assault Phase (actually, they can only do
> this if they have the Exarch upgrade (e.g., vet sgt) and he
purchases
> the "withdraw" exarch power, but I digress...).  This implies that
> they either won the combat or passed their morale check (in other
> words, Warp Spiders are still subject to being sweeping advanced
if
> they loose the combat and fail their morale check).  Being jump
pack
> troops, they fall back 3d6" in any direction of their choice,
> automatically regroup, and their enemy may only make a
consolidation
> move.
>
> All this is spelled out in the Withdraw exarch power (the parts
about
> choosing the direction, auto regrouping, and enemy only
> consolidating) and in the Warp Jump Generator rules (the "move
like
> jump infantry", ergo fall back 3d6" from close combat).
>
>
> ***Rapid Fire***
>
> Our local group just had a big discussion on this very aspect of
> Chaos Terminators.  When it comes down to it, there is no rule
that
> allows Chaos Termies to shoot rapid fire weapons and then assault.
>
> _BUT_
>
> someone mentioned that the most recent printing of the Chaos
> Codex does indeed include wording in the Terminator Armor rules to
> the effect that they can shoot heavy and/or rapid fire and still
> charge.
>
> So my advice would be to go to your local store, peruse the Chaos
> Codex's entry for Terminator Armor, and see how it is worded (I
say
> go to your local store since the C:CSM you own may not be the most
> recent printing).
>
>
>
> I think that about covers it all for now...
>
>
> Karandras The Shadow Hunter




Thanks a lot, pal!

ya...i did more asking around...the enemy can only consolidate and
no longer pursue...whew..that makes a whole lotta difference if you
are getting charged by a bloodthirster 4 etc ya? :P

Figured I'd just save time and provide info on all three of the above
topics.


**CLOSE COMBAT**

--- In warhammer40krulesadvisor@yahoogroups.com, "brothercaptainrace"
<pauking1@j...> wrote:
>> Each model gets +1 Attack for being equiped with a close combat
>> weapon and a pistol.  Some special rules, such as Furious Charge,
>> give other bonuses for charging.  Models that didn't make base-to-
>> base contact still add 1 (and only 1) attack if they are within 2"
>> of the enemy.

In the 4th edition rules, models within 2" of a FRIENDLY model that
is in base-to-base contact with an enemy get ALL of their attacks
including any special attacks/wargear they have.

Also, units that charge get +1 attack (unless something prevents this
such as the True Grit skill).

To the original poster of the Close Combat querry:  your friend is
right, in 4th edition, Close Combat is quick, brutal, and rather
decisive.  But with Berserkers, most often it is you that will come
out the back side of close combat as the victor having crushed your
opponent's unit one way or the other.   ;-)


**HIT AND RUN**

I can't comment directly on the Seraphim as I don't have a WH codex.
But I will provide info based on using Warp Spiders in my Eldar army -
  take it for what it is worth: same-same, but different.

Warp Spiders can voluntarily fall back if still locked in close
combat at the end of the Assault Phase (actually, they can only do
this if they have the Exarch upgrade (e.g., vet sgt) and he purchases
the "withdraw" exarch power, but I digress...).  This implies that
they either won the combat or passed their morale check (in other
words, Warp Spiders are still subject to being sweeping advanced if
they loose the combat and fail their morale check).  Being jump pack
troops, they fall back 3d6" in any direction of their choice,
automatically regroup, and their enemy may only make a consolidation
move.

All this is spelled out in the Withdraw exarch power (the parts about
choosing the direction, auto regrouping, and enemy only
consolidating) and in the Warp Jump Generator rules (the "move like
jump infantry", ergo fall back 3d6" from close combat).


***Rapid Fire***

Our local group just had a big discussion on this very aspect of
Chaos Terminators.  When it comes down to it, there is no rule that
allows Chaos Termies to shoot rapid fire weapons and then assault.

_BUT_

someone mentioned that the most recent printing of the Chaos
Codex does indeed include wording in the Terminator Armor rules to
the effect that they can shoot heavy and/or rapid fire and still
charge.

So my advice would be to go to your local store, peruse the Chaos
Codex's entry for Terminator Armor, and see how it is worded (I say
go to your local store since the C:CSM you own may not be the most
recent printing).



I think that about covers it all for now...


Karandras The Shadow Hunter

thx a lot,brothercaptainrace! (nothing like help from the elite of the
imperium)
anyways i went down to my club and asked around..strangely they told me that
seraphim "run" on a 3d6..maybe it just applies to them?..i dun know..and
there are no limits on when they can use "hit and run"..

>From: "brothercaptainrace" <pauking1@...>
>Reply-To: warhammer40krulesadvisor@yahoogroups.com
>To: warhammer40krulesadvisor@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [WARHAMMER 40K RULES ADVISOR] Re: hit and run rules
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:03:45 -0000
>
>
>I'm not really familiar with SOB, but I do have units with Jump Packs so
>they should
>work in a similar manner.
>
>1) 2d6
>
>2) Only if the running is a result of losing CC, in which case, they were
>caught by a
>Sweeping Advance.  Otherwise, I'd say no (unless the entry for "Hit and
>Run" specifies
>that they are destroyed), they'd become locked in CC.
>
>3) This one I can't answer.
>
>Hope that helps a little!
>
>--- In warhammer40krulesadvisor@yahoogroups.com, "don"
><powerchordrabbit@h...> wrote:
> >
> > hiya all! well, actually i ain't exactly a "newbie" newbie...i
> > stopped playing abt 4yrs ago during the endg era of ed2 i
> > think...had to enter the army..so now i'm pickg up e game again n
> > i'm glad to see that my sisters of battle have recently gotten the
> > attention they so rightfully deserve..finally...anyways among heaps
> > of rules digestion and internalising new units with new capabilties
> > from all over...one of the queries that pesters me is how exactly
> > does "hit and run" work?
> >
> > the things i do know as of now
> > 1. my seraphim can choose the direction they want to fall back to
> > (but how do i determine the distance? roll 2d6's? )
> >
> > 2. if they are "chased" up by the unit they were "running"
> > from...does this mean that they are over-run and wiped out or just
> > that h-2-h combat now is inevitable?
> >
> > 3. in what situations can my seraphim not utilise "hit and run"?
> >
> >
> > may sound like dumb queries..but many thanks in advance to all who
> > answer!
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get an advanced look at the new version of MSN Messenger.
http://messenger.msn.com.sg/Beta/Default.aspx

oh my bad, i forgot to mention that they were chaos space marine terminators
that come with combi bolters that arent assault and are twin linked rapid fire

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Terminators are typically armed with Storm Bolters.  These are Assault
2 weapons, not Rapid Fire like the regular Bolters are.  So they get 2
shots and are still able to charge into battle.

--- In warhammer40krulesadvisor@yahoogroups.com, "wingzerosl"
<wingzerosl@y...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering if Terminators or anything like that got anything
> for move and shooting with rapid
>
> im not exactly sure where i saw something about it, but i think i
> could
>
> not exactly sure however
>
> I know they can move/shoot heavys

I was wondering if Terminators or anything like that got anything
for move and shooting with rapid

im not exactly sure where i saw something about it, but i think i
could

not exactly sure however

I know they can move/shoot heavys

I'm not really familiar with SOB, but I do have units with Jump Packs so they
should
work in a similar manner.

1) 2d6

2) Only if the running is a result of losing CC, in which case, they were caught
by a
Sweeping Advance.  Otherwise, I'd say no (unless the entry for "Hit and Run"
specifies
that they are destroyed), they'd become locked in CC.

3) This one I can't answer.

Hope that helps a little!

--- In warhammer40krulesadvisor@yahoogroups.com, "don"
<powerchordrabbit@h...> wrote:
>
> hiya all! well, actually i ain't exactly a "newbie" newbie...i
> stopped playing abt 4yrs ago during the endg era of ed2 i
> think...had to enter the army..so now i'm pickg up e game again n
> i'm glad to see that my sisters of battle have recently gotten the
> attention they so rightfully deserve..finally...anyways among heaps
> of rules digestion and internalising new units with new capabilties
> from all over...one of the queries that pesters me is how exactly
> does "hit and run" work?
>
> the things i do know as of now
> 1. my seraphim can choose the direction they want to fall back to
> (but how do i determine the distance? roll 2d6's? )
>
> 2. if they are "chased" up by the unit they were "running"
> from...does this mean that they are over-run and wiped out or just
> that h-2-h combat now is inevitable?
>
> 3. in what situations can my seraphim not utilise "hit and run"?
>
>
> may sound like dumb queries..but many thanks in advance to all who
> answer!

--- In warhammer40krulesadvisor@yahoogroups.com, "wingzerosl"
<wingzerosl@y...> wrote:
>
> I need to know how the close combat works...... i have the rulebook
> available to me, but the problem is that i dont understand the close
> combat rules very well
>
> can someone help me
>
> i am chaos and have berzerks
>
> but my friend has me almost convinced that close combat is real bad

I don't know about the stats or special rules for Berzerkers but here are the
basics:

>If a unit does not fire rapid fire weapons, it can charge into CC in the
Assault phase
(provided an enemy unit is in range).  You must try and get all models into
base-to-
base contact, starting with the closest model.

>Each model gets +1 Attack for being equiped with a close combat weapon and a
pistol.  Some special rules, such as Furious Charge, give other bonuses for
charging.
Models that didn't make base-to-base contact still add 1 (and only 1) attack if
they
are within 2" of the enemy.

>Models with the highest Initiative go first, however units in cover strike at
Initiative
10, unless the charging unit has Frag grenades (or some variation thereof) and
models with Powerfists ALWAYS go last.

>You check your WS to see what you need to roll to hit.  For every hit, check
your S
vs. their T to see what you need to wound.  (Some unit's have rules that change
what
you need to hit/wound, be sure you know them!)

>For every wound they take, they roll an armour save, unless the weapon your
model
was using negates it.  I which case, the wound is automatic.

>Loser takes a Morale test.  If they break and run, you both roll to see if they
are
destroyed in a Sweeping Advance or they get away.  Otherwise, you stay locked in
combat and have to move you models in closer ("pile-in").

*Some units excel at CC, probably your Berzerkers.  It sounds like he's just
trying to
trick you into not charging him, since they would tear right through most
Infantry.

I need to know how the close combat works...... i have the rulebook
available to me, but the problem is that i dont understand the close
combat rules very well

can someone help me

i am chaos and have berzerks

but my friend has me almost convinced that close combat is real bad

hiya all! well, actually i ain't exactly a "newbie" newbie...i
stopped playing abt 4yrs ago during the endg era of ed2 i
think...had to enter the army..so now i'm pickg up e game again n
i'm glad to see that my sisters of battle have recently gotten the
attention they so rightfully deserve..finally...anyways among heaps
of rules digestion and internalising new units with new capabilties
from all over...one of the queries that pesters me is how exactly
does "hit and run" work?

the things i do know as of now
1. my seraphim can choose the direction they want to fall back to
(but how do i determine the distance? roll 2d6's? )

2. if they are "chased" up by the unit they were "running"
from...does this mean that they are over-run and wiped out or just
that h-2-h combat now is inevitable?

3. in what situations can my seraphim not utilise "hit and run"?


may sound like dumb queries..but many thanks in advance to all who
answer!

I just got my new website up and running!  It has a 40K section with
some fluff, homegrown rules and recent pics of my models--as well as a
bunch of other stuff!

The site is optimized for High Speed Internet, but you can still view
it with Dial-Up (56K).

Visit it here: http://www.kingworks.net

Let me know what you think!

Thanks,
Paul

I have added some Kroot pics to my folder.  Nowhere near all of
them.  Do have one question about the Kroothawk Totem. Do both
players or just the Kroot player get to re-roll for the first turn?

--- In warhammer40krulesadvisor@yahoogroups.com, proshasta
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Bobby
>
> Was looking through your photos.  Noticed the Kroot folder.  Are
you
> doing a Kroot Mercenary army?  I haven't added mine up yet, but I
> think I'm up to 2000 points worth.  I even have three Great
Knarlocs
> (only two are painted).  I'll have to get some photos of mine up
so
> you can see.  Only played one game with them.  Got wiped out.  It
> was against Marines.  Inflicted some damage.  Army was smaller
> then.  Now I have two Carnivore squads, one Hound Pack, Shaper
> Council, Master Shaper, Hunter kindred, one Krootox Herd(4 out of
5
> Krootox painted), 2 (painted) Great Knarloc squads, 1 unpainted.
> Think that is all.  If you are playing Kroot Mercenaries, let me
> know what's working for you and what's not.  Maybe we can join
> forces.
>
> later
> dave


I have as little over 2000 points so far.As for the painting, I have
about 5% done\ of them done...I havew yet to play test them
though....

Bobby

Was looking through your photos.  Noticed the Kroot folder.  Are you
doing a Kroot Mercenary army?  I haven't added mine up yet, but I
think I'm up to 2000 points worth.  I even have three Great Knarlocs
(only two are painted).  I'll have to get some photos of mine up so
you can see.  Only played one game with them.  Got wiped out.  It
was against Marines.  Inflicted some damage.  Army was smaller
then.  Now I have two Carnivore squads, one Hound Pack, Shaper
Council, Master Shaper, Hunter kindred, one Krootox Herd(4 out of 5
Krootox painted), 2 (painted) Great Knarloc squads, 1 unpainted.
Think that is all.  If you are playing Kroot Mercenaries, let me
know what's working for you and what's not.  Maybe we can join
forces.

later
dave

I will be out of town this weekend (Oct 1-3) but may be able to do
something the next week. I need to get some experience with my DE!

The new rules are not drastically different, there is just a few
changes that make you rethink strategy (especially if you have squads
that used to disembark, shoot, and charge in one turn!).

BRC

That would be good, we need to hook up some time. I haven't used the
4th ed rules yet but itching to try them. And we'll just have to
bring H'boro out of the darkness and back into the light. If the
clouds will clear and I can get out of this swamp I seem to be in..lol
Later...Bill

It was this past Saturday.  No big deal, they actually made it an open
game day to introduce everyone to 4th edition (no fee, no prizes).  It
was well enough for me, since my DE didn't fare so well against the
Chaos Marines I was matched up with. (I was actually running 1440 pts,
including wargear!)

What's kind of funny is that everyone I play against down your way
uses the "good guys" (Empire, Eldar, Tau); but up here, everyone seems
to field Chaos or Orks . . .

Anyway, I'd really like to get together with you guys sometime soon
and get a game going!

Paul