Dear all,

Sorry for the late announcement of this. I was holding off making a
final decision until MidCon.

I will not be running the Zine Poll this year.  Someone else may take
over and if they do I can forward them Keith Thomasson's Excel
spreadsheet, which proved invaluable in totting up the numbers in
previous years; these days, probably all you'd need is fingers, thumbs
and maybe the toes of one foot.

If there are any editors reading this, please publicise my decision.
Feel free to castigate me for the late announcement.


Regards,


John

Dear all (again),

I think it is also time to concede that I will never do another issue
of Mission From God. The reasons for this are the same as the reasons
for abandoning the Zine Poll - the relentless decline in the numbers
of people in the hobby.

What I'd like to see it in its stead is some sort of Wikipedia type
affair where we all contribute reviews of those zines still in
existence.  I've no idea how to take this forward though.  Can we use
Wikipedia itself?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

I will probably do the odd zine review, however, on my blog, which can
be found on http://my.opera.com/fiendishgames/blog/

For those editors who are reading this who are under the impression
they are trading with me in return for Mission From God, feel free to
curtail my subscription forthwith.  If I am playing in a game in your
zine and you want me to pay - horror! - money to subscribe, then let
me know.

Note, that I intend to continue running the Zine Bank, though if
someone else wants to take over Mission From God then it would make
sense if they took over that too.

Editors who want to contribute to the Zine Bank can, if they prefer,
send me a bundle of back-issues periodically (or hand them over at
cons) instead of sending them to me every issue.  I probably only need
2 or 3 copies a year of each zine, these days.


John

Dear all (yet again),

Just to prove I am not totally retreating from the hobby, you may or
may not be interested in my review of MidCon on my blog: http://my.
opera.com/fiendishgames/blog/

There's also some stuff on there about Essen.


TTFN,


John

John Harrington wrote:

> What I'd like to see it in its stead is some sort of Wikipedia type
> affair where we all contribute reviews of those zines still in
> existence.  I've no idea how to take this forward though.  Can we use
> Wikipedia itself?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

I think a wiki is an excellent structure for something like Mission from
God - one of these things that's obvious once suggested! As well as
being constantly updatable (if not actually updated), you could still
have the option of doing a "snapshot" of the data onto CD(*1), and
calling it an "issue" whenever required.

However, I think that an independant site would be better than using
something generic like Wikipedia, for several reasons:
a) Seperate identity, easier to link to from other sites, or otherise
promote.
b) Wikipedia's policy of completely open editing isn't really
appropriate for something like MfG, which is really aiming to be
authoratative, at least within its own area. (Wikipedia solves this, of
course, by not claiming to be authoratative.) Not sure exactly how MfG
should be protected from wiki vandalism - logins may be overkill and
un-wikilike, but otherwise you need at least one RecentChangesJunkie to
keep an eye on things. But whatever, a seperate site would make this easier.
c) Contraywise, Wikipedia likes to insist on Neutral Point of View
(NPOV), which isn't really ideal for a reviews site.(*2)

Since I seem to be on a definite upswing on hobby involvement at the
moment (possibly related to finally packing in a 70+ hpw job earlier
this year), I'd be keen to be involved in this, or even co-ordinate if
necessary. What do other people think?

Checking a WHOIS database, it appears that missionfromgod.org has being
sat on (by a cybersquatter? why?) since 2002, so I've gone ahead and
registered misssionfromgod.org.uk(*3) as a holding measure - org.uk is
probably better than any other alternative(*4). This can easily be
transferred as required to whoever ends up doing the co-ordination (if
it's not me).

--
Peter Sullivan <peter@...>

(*1) Or even that old-fashioned "paper" stuff I've heard some old-timers
talk about.
(*2) Of course, like the Prime Directive in Star Trek, NPOV only seems
to get mentioned when it's about to be broken...
(*3) We can restart the debate about how it could really do with a more
descriptive name, especially on the web, but the name has such history
now, I'd be loath to change it. In any case, search engine metadata
means people googling for "UK Postal Games Zine Directory" will find it.
(*4) Such as .net, which was originally meant to be reserved just for
Internet Service Providers and the like, but seems available to anyone
these days.

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:47:02 -0000, Peter Sullivan
<peter@...> wrote:

> However, I think that an independant site would be better than using
> something generic like Wikipedia, for several reasons:
> a) Seperate identity, easier to link to from other sites, or otherise
> promote.
> b) Wikipedia's policy of completely open editing isn't really
> appropriate for something like MfG, which is really aiming to be
> authoratative, at least within its own area. (Wikipedia solves this, of
> course, by not claiming to be authoratative.) Not sure exactly how MfG
> should be protected from wiki vandalism - logins may be overkill and
> un-wikilike, but otherwise you need at least one RecentChangesJunkie to
> keep an eye on things. But whatever, a seperate site would make this
> easier.

What about using UKPBM's database option?  A separate record for each
zine, editable by anyone subscribed to UKPBM (which, for those not paying
attention, is this Yahoo Group you are reading)?



John

P.S.to Peter:  Must get around to telling Jim-Bob about your £7 cheque sub
to TAP - it's devalued by about 60 cents since you sent it on 9th October!

--
Fiendish Board Games - makers of games in the German style.
Breaking Away, Office Politics and Traffic Lights.
http://www.fbgames.co.uk

Hi

I'm sure there are others out there who could say more on this but anyway...

I haven't been around the zine scene that long but would like to thank John for
arranging, organising and counting the Zine Poll over the last few years.
Imho, I think the time is right to stop the poll, as it seems there are fewer
zines around - and so it is likely the ones with the highest readership will be
the ones scoring best.

I guess the same is true for MfG too, so thanks again to John for keeping up (as
best he could) with all the zines starting and folding while trying to write
something about the zines to try and attract new subbers!

Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John Harrington wrote:

>What about using UKPBM's database option?  A separate record for each
>zine, editable by anyone subscribed to UKPBM (which, for those not paying
>attention, is this Yahoo Group you are reading)?
>
Certainly worth thinking about. Are Yahoo Group database entries visible
to search engines (especially the almighty Googlebot)?
The other alternative would be to store the information in Google Base,
but this would involve people submitting stuff in XML format.
Actually, I suspect that finding web storage space is probably not the
most important issue these days - more significant is making it easy for
the casual viewer to add their own comments or information if they feel
so inspired. Maybe just a mailto:editor@... link would be
enough.

And actually, even that's probably not that critical as we wish it might
be, in that the MfG editors have always had to write 75%-plus of the
material themselves. These days, it's probably 90%-plus, but of course
90% of a significantly lower base.

I'll see if I can mock something up, and see what people think.

>P.S.to Peter:  Must get around to telling Jim-Bob about your £7 cheque sub
>to TAP - it's devalued by about 60 cents since you sent it on 9th October!
>
Still much, much less that the comission I would have to have paid on
the equivalent travellers check/cheque!

--
Peter Sullivan <peter@...>

Bruce Edwards wrote:

> I haven't been around the zine scene that long but would like to thank
> John for arranging, organising and counting the Zine Poll over the
> last few years.
> Imho, I think the time is right to stop the poll, as it seems there
> are fewer zines around - and so it is likely the ones with the highest
> readership will be the ones scoring best.

To me, the main reason to stop the Zine Poll is simply the lack of
voters, rather than lack of zeens. Anyone who does want to put a case
forward for keeping it going needs, IMHO, to suggest how to address that
first.

> I guess the same is true for MfG too, so thanks again to John for
> keeping up (as best he could) with all the zines starting and folding
> while trying to write something about the zines to try and attract new
> subbers!

I'm not so sure the case for stopping Mission from God is as strong.
Firstly, it doesn't have such a need for "critical mass" as the poll -
really just a keen editor plus a few hangers-on to contribute outside
reviews is all it takes to keep it going. And it's a useful resource,
even if not for as many people as it used to be. Regardless of new
blood, I can see it being of interest for returnees - of which there may
be increasing numbers as the old guard of the 1970s come up to
retirement (early or otherwise) and idly enter "postal diplomacy" into a
web search engine one day...

--
Peter Sullivan <peter@...>

Well, I can see it here, can't I, and of course Peter told me about it!

Since Peter is back to producing regular issues of Octopus' Garden
as subszines (if I can remember to include them!!), he technically
doesn't owe me anything at all.

Jim-Bob

>   Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:52:16 -0000
>   From: "John Harrington" <fiendish@...>
> Subject: Re: Mission From God - that's brown bread too!
>
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:47:02 -0000, Peter Sullivan
> <peter@...> wrote:
>
>> P.S.to Peter:  Must get around to telling Jim-Bob about your £7 cheque sub
> to TAP - it's devalued by about 60 cents since you sent it on 9th October!
>
> --
> Fiendish Board Games - makers of games in the German style.
> Breaking Away, Office Politics and Traffic Lights.
> http://www.fbgames.co.uk
>
>
>

Does anyone have a current address (snail mail or e-mail) for Richard Egan?
--
Peter Sullivan <peter@...>

Having finally discovered that I wasn't receiving messages from this
group because of a "soft bounce" on my email, I managed to get back in
and came across some references to the death of the 'zine poll and MfG.

The 'zine poll was probably inevitable, but the latter was slightly
ironic since I've had 3 requests for The Tangerine Terror from new
subscribers in the last 6 months based on the MfG listings.

A comment from the latest correspondent was that it was still "a great
resource, but you needed to pick your way through the piles of folded
corpses". John, do you have the stamina to delete references to the
terminated 'zines on your website?

Cheers
Howard

Mission From God

I'm prepared to redo the whole thing on the Fiendish web site if I can get
a definitive list of who is still publishing now.

What I suggest is that every editor reading this starts off by posting the
names of zines they know to be still publishing. Ideally, they should also
publish the e-mail address of each editor, albeit in the now accepted
spam-killing form of "joe.bloggs of isp.co.uk" format, so that I can
contact the editor and get the basic details: price, frequency, page
count, issue number, editor's address, games run.

I've given up hope of getting reviews these days.

Off the top of my head I can think of the following Uk zines:

Bloodstock
Variable Pig
Obsidian
The Tangerine Terror
Greatest Hits
The Cunning Plan
Ode
For Whom the Die Rolls
Minstrel
The Blue Nose Special
To Win Just Once
Striker
Hopscotch United

Is WIMM still going? Is Serendipity officially dead? Ditto Borealis?


Cheers,


John

P.S. Had a recent contact from someone asking if Brian Dolton was still
around; is anyone in contact with him?


On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:31:30 -0000, Howard Bishop <hbishop@...>
wrote:

> Having finally discovered that I wasn't receiving messages from this
> group because of a "soft bounce" on my email, I managed to get back in
> and came across some references to the death of the 'zine poll and MfG.
>
> The 'zine poll was probably inevitable, but the latter was slightly
> ironic since I've had 3 requests for The Tangerine Terror from new
> subscribers in the last 6 months based on the MfG listings.
>
> A comment from the latest correspondent was that it was still "a great
> resource, but you needed to pick your way through the piles of folded
> corpses". John, do you have the stamina to delete references to the
> terminated 'zines on your website?
>
> Cheers
> Howard
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Play station 2 game rental  Play free online games  Play
> Play station 2 games  Play station 2 game console  Sony play station game
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> Visit your group "ukpbm" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ukpbm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> No  virus  found  in  this  incoming  message.
>
> Checked  by  AVG  Free  Edition.
>
> Version:  7.1.375  /  Virus  Database:  268.2.1/278  -  Release  Date:
> 09/03/2006



--
Fiendish Board Games - makers of games in the German style.
Breaking Away, Office Politics and Traffic Lights.
http://www.fbgames.co.uk

John,

Are you only interested in printed zines or are you after electronic ones too?
Devolution
and Dane's Games (both email) are still going strong and Will It Lead to
Trouble? has made
an impressive comeback (graphic-rich PDF contact andymansfield@...
for a sample
copy).

Richard

P.S. WIMM? is still alive and kicking :-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Harrington" <fiendish@...>
To: <ukpbm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Mission From God (reprise)


> Mission From God
>
> I'm prepared to redo the whole thing on the Fiendish web site if I can get
> a definitive list of who is still publishing now.
>
> What I suggest is that every editor reading this starts off by posting the
> names of zines they know to be still publishing. Ideally, they should also
> publish the e-mail address of each editor, albeit in the now accepted
> spam-killing form of "joe.bloggs of isp.co.uk" format, so that I can
> contact the editor and get the basic details: price, frequency, page
> count, issue number, editor's address, games run.
>
> I've given up hope of getting reviews these days.
>
> Off the top of my head I can think of the following Uk zines:
>
> Bloodstock
> Variable Pig
> Obsidian
> The Tangerine Terror
> Greatest Hits
> The Cunning Plan
> Ode
> For Whom the Die Rolls
> Minstrel
> The Blue Nose Special
> To Win Just Once
> Striker
> Hopscotch United
>
> Is WIMM still going? Is Serendipity officially dead? Ditto Borealis?
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> John
>
> P.S. Had a recent contact from someone asking if Brian Dolton was still
> around; is anyone in contact with him?
>
>
> On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:31:30 -0000, Howard Bishop <hbishop@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Having finally discovered that I wasn't receiving messages from this
>> group because of a "soft bounce" on my email, I managed to get back in
>> and came across some references to the death of the 'zine poll and MfG.
>>
>> The 'zine poll was probably inevitable, but the latter was slightly
>> ironic since I've had 3 requests for The Tangerine Terror from new
>> subscribers in the last 6 months based on the MfG listings.
>>
>> A comment from the latest correspondent was that it was still "a great
>> resource, but you needed to pick your way through the piles of folded
>> corpses". John, do you have the stamina to delete references to the
>> terminated 'zines on your website?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Howard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> SPONSORED LINKS
>> Play station 2 game rental  Play free online games  Play
>> Play station 2 games  Play station 2 game console  Sony play station game
>>
>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>> Visit your group "ukpbm" on the web.
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> ukpbm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>> No  virus  found  in  this  incoming  message.
>>
>> Checked  by  AVG  Free  Edition.
>>
>> Version:  7.1.375  /  Virus  Database:  268.2.1/278  -  Release  Date:
>> 09/03/2006
>
>
>
> --
> Fiendish Board Games - makers of games in the German style.
> Breaking Away, Office Politics and Traffic Lights.
> http://www.fbgames.co.uk
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hi John,

Good stuff, although you may regret your offer. Maybe you can move all the
folded 'zines into a single cemetery page with the last known issue number.

The following 'zines are also still trading
- Geneva (a home for orphaned Dip games, ed. Stuart Eves : seves in the domain
of tiscali.co.uk)
- Jack Duckworth's Alternate Universe (ed. Simon Ives : don't have his email
address to hand)

There are also a couple of 18xx 'zines that I know are still active. I don't
subscribe, but I know Keith Thomasson does, so he should be able to help
you out with contact details :
- Save Your xxs For Me (issue 25)
- ...mais n'est-ce pas la gare? (issue 59)

Are we talking UK 'zines only?   If not, you can add the following
- Damn The Consequences (ed. Brendan Whyte moved from Oz to Israel : bwhyte
in the domain of mscc.huji.ac.il)
- Western Front (eZine ed. Brad Martin :  westfront in the domain of
westnet.com.au
    I think this is correct)

Cheers
Howard

>-- Original Message --
>To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
>From: "John Harrington" <fiendish@...>
>Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:36:27 -0000
>Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Mission From God (reprise)
>Reply-To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>Mission From God
>
>I'm prepared to redo the whole thing on the Fiendish web site if I can get
>
>a definitive list of who is still publishing now.
>
>What I suggest is that every editor reading this starts off by posting the
>
>names of zines they know to be still publishing. Ideally, they should also
>
>publish the e-mail address of each editor, albeit in the now accepted
>spam-killing form of "joe.bloggs of isp.co.uk" format, so that I can
>contact the editor and get the basic details: price, frequency, page
>count, issue number, editor's address, games run.
>
>I've given up hope of getting reviews these days.
>
>Off the top of my head I can think of the following Uk zines:
>
>Bloodstock
>Variable Pig
>Obsidian
>The Tangerine Terror
>Greatest Hits
>The Cunning Plan
>Ode
>For Whom the Die Rolls
>Minstrel
>The Blue Nose Special
>To Win Just Once
>Striker
>Hopscotch United
>
>Is WIMM still going? Is Serendipity officially dead? Ditto Borealis?
>
>
>Cheers,
>
>
>John
>
>P.S. Had a recent contact from someone asking if Brian Dolton was still

>
>around; is anyone in contact with him?
>
>
>On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:31:30 -0000, Howard Bishop <hbishop@...>
>
>wrote:
>
>> Having finally discovered that I wasn't receiving messages from this
>> group because of a "soft bounce" on my email, I managed to get back in
>> and came across some references to the death of the 'zine poll and MfG.
>>
>> The 'zine poll was probably inevitable, but the latter was slightly
>> ironic since I've had 3 requests for The Tangerine Terror from new
>> subscribers in the last 6 months based on the MfG listings.
>>
>> A comment from the latest correspondent was that it was still "a great
>> resource, but you needed to pick your way through the piles of folded
>> corpses". John, do you have the stamina to delete references to the
>> terminated 'zines on your website?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Howard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> SPONSORED LINKS
>> Play station 2 game rental  Play free online games  Play
>> Play station 2 games  Play station 2 game console  Sony play station game
>>
>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>> Visit your group "ukpbm" on the web.
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> ukpbm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>> No  virus  found  in  this  incoming  message.
>>
>> Checked  by  AVG  Free  Edition.
>>
>> Version:  7.1.375  /  Virus  Database:  268.2.1/278  -  Release  Date:
>
>> 09/03/2006
>
>
>
>--
>Fiendish Board Games - makers of games in the German style.
>Breaking Away, Office Politics and Traffic Lights.
>http://www.fbgames.co.uk
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>



___________________________________________________________

Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/

Guys ...

Diversions is not yet dead.  It awaits revival from a
regrettably lengthy coma.  I committed to an Easter restart
some time ago, and this remains do-able.

Rip G



----------------------------------------
Upgrade your account today for increased storage; mail
forwarding or POP enabled e-mail with automatic virus
scanning. Visit our member benefits page at
https://members.canada.com/benefits.aspx for more
information.

Printed or electronic is fine by me, so long as they are recognisably
ziney - by which I mean, downloadable as a single entity.


John

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:11:43 -0000, Richard Smith
<richard@...> wrote:

> John,
>
> Are you only interested in printed zines or are you after electronic
> ones too? Devolution
> and Dane's Games (both email) are still going strong and Will It Lead to
> Trouble? has made
> an impressive comeback (graphic-rich PDF contact
> andymansfield@... for a sample
> copy).
>
> Richard
>
> P.S. WIMM? is still alive and kicking :-)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Harrington" <fiendish@...>
> To: <ukpbm@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Mission From God (reprise)
>
>
>> Mission From God
>>
>> I'm prepared to redo the whole thing on the Fiendish web site if I can
>> get
>> a definitive list of who is still publishing now.
>>
>> What I suggest is that every editor reading this starts off by posting
>> the
>> names of zines they know to be still publishing. Ideally, they should
>> also
>> publish the e-mail address of each editor, albeit in the now accepted
>> spam-killing form of "joe.bloggs of isp.co.uk" format, so that I can
>> contact the editor and get the basic details: price, frequency, page
>> count, issue number, editor's address, games run.
>>
>> I've given up hope of getting reviews these days.
>>
>> Off the top of my head I can think of the following Uk zines:
>>
>> Bloodstock
>> Variable Pig
>> Obsidian
>> The Tangerine Terror
>> Greatest Hits
>> The Cunning Plan
>> Ode
>> For Whom the Die Rolls
>> Minstrel
>> The Blue Nose Special
>> To Win Just Once
>> Striker
>> Hopscotch United
>>
>> Is WIMM still going? Is Serendipity officially dead? Ditto Borealis?
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>> P.S. Had a recent contact from someone asking if Brian Dolton was still
>> around; is anyone in contact with him?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:31:30 -0000, Howard Bishop
>> <hbishop@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Having finally discovered that I wasn't receiving messages from this
>>> group because of a "soft bounce" on my email, I managed to get back in
>>> and came across some references to the death of the 'zine poll and MfG.
>>>
>>> The 'zine poll was probably inevitable, but the latter was slightly
>>> ironic since I've had 3 requests for The Tangerine Terror from new
>>> subscribers in the last 6 months based on the MfG listings.
>>>
>>> A comment from the latest correspondent was that it was still "a great
>>> resource, but you needed to pick your way through the piles of folded
>>> corpses". John, do you have the stamina to delete references to the
>>> terminated 'zines on your website?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Howard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SPONSORED LINKS
>>> Play station 2 game rental  Play free online games  Play
>>> Play station 2 games  Play station 2 game console  Sony play station
>>> game
>>>
>>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>>
>>> Visit your group "ukpbm" on the web.
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>> ukpbm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>>>
>>>
>>> No  virus  found  in  this  incoming  message.
>>>
>>> Checked  by  AVG  Free  Edition.
>>>
>>> Version:  7.1.375  /  Virus  Database:  268.2.1/278  -  Release  Date:
>>> 09/03/2006
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Fiendish Board Games - makers of games in the German style.
>> Breaking Away, Office Politics and Traffic Lights.
>> http://www.fbgames.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



--
Fiendish Board Games - makers of games in the German style.
Breaking Away, Office Politics and Traffic Lights.
http://www.fbgames.co.uk

WIMM? is indeed still alive - less kicking but then David was besotted when
he did the most recent issue ...

Dane's Games' last list of electronic (only or also paper) zines was as
below.  Minstrel should be in there but I need to remember to tell Dane
that.

Rob

"... mais n'est-ce pas la gare?"
     Editor: Steve Thomas (maisnestce*OF*aol.com).
     Frequency: monthly.
     Latest issue: #59, 18/02/06.
     Format: PDF.
     Runs: 18xx.

"Devolution"
     Editor: Tony Robbins (tony*OF*hollowell.plus.com).
     Frequency: usually appears every 2 months.
     Latest issue: #58, 05/01/06.
     Format: Plain-text email.
     Runs: Railway Rivals, Bus Boss.

"Diversions"
     Editor: Rip Gooch (rippingpubs*OF*yahoo.ca).
     Frequency: About every 5 weeks.
     Format: Word document.
     Runs: Railway Rivals and variants, Awful Green Things, Maneater.

"The Blue Nose Special"
     Editor: John Colledge (dunorroch*OF*dsl.pipex.com).
     Frequency: usually appears every 5 weeks.
     Format: Word document.
     Runs: A wide variety of games.

"To Win Just Once" (also available as a paper zine)
     Editor: Paul Evans (paul*OF*pevans.co.uk).
     Frequency: About every 5 weeks.
     Format: PDF (www.pevans.co.uk/TWJO) and HTML.
     Runs: En Garde!, Railway Rivals and Star Trader.

"Variable Pig" (also available as a paper zine)
     Editor: Jim Reader (to subscribe, send a blank email to
variablepig-subscribe*OF*yahoogroups.co.uk).
     Frequency: 5-6 issues per year.
     Latest issue: #101, 23/01/06.
     Format: PDF file downloadable from http://www.sholing.force9.co.uk
         Subscribers are notified of new issues by email.
     Runs: A wide variety of games.

"Western Front"
     Editor: Brad Martin (westfront*OF*hotmail.com).
     Frequency: About every 6 weeks.
     Latest issue: #78, 06/02/06.
     Format: Word document.
     Runs: A wide variety of games.
     Website: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wfront has back issues.

"Will It Lead to Trouble!?"
     Editor: Andy Mansfield (andymansfield*OF*btinternet.com).
     Frequency: Monthly.
     Format: PDF (approx 3MB).
     Runs: Diplomacy (and probably other games eventually).

"Dane's Games"
     Editor: Dane Maslen (dane.maslen*OF*virgin.net).
     Frequency: Every 4-5 weeks.
     Format: HTML-format email.
     Runs: Outpost plus various mass-participation games (e.g. By Popular
         Demand).
     Website: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/danemaslen/danesgames has back
         issues.

-----Original Message-----
From: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukpbm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Harrington
Sent: 11 March 2006 14:57
To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Mission From God (reprise)

Printed or electronic is fine by me, so long as they are recognisably ziney
- by which I mean, downloadable as a single entity.


John

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:11:43 -0000, Richard Smith
<richard@...> wrote:

> John,
>
> Are you only interested in printed zines or are you after electronic
> ones too? Devolution and Dane's Games (both email) are still going
> strong and Will It Lead to Trouble? has made an impressive comeback
> (graphic-rich PDF contact andymansfield@... for a sample
> copy).
>
> Richard
>
> P.S. WIMM? is still alive and kicking :-)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Harrington" <fiendish@...>
> To: <ukpbm@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Mission From God (reprise)
>
>
>> Mission From God
>>
>> I'm prepared to redo the whole thing on the Fiendish web site if I
>> can get a definitive list of who is still publishing now.
>>
>> What I suggest is that every editor reading this starts off by
>> posting the names of zines they know to be still publishing. Ideally,
>> they should also publish the e-mail address of each editor, albeit in
>> the now accepted spam-killing form of "joe.bloggs of isp.co.uk"
>> format, so that I can contact the editor and get the basic details:
>> price, frequency, page count, issue number, editor's address, games
>> run.
>>
>> I've given up hope of getting reviews these days.
>>
>> Off the top of my head I can think of the following Uk zines:
>>
>> Bloodstock
>> Variable Pig
>> Obsidian
>> The Tangerine Terror
>> Greatest Hits
>> The Cunning Plan
>> Ode
>> For Whom the Die Rolls
>> Minstrel
>> The Blue Nose Special
>> To Win Just Once
>> Striker
>> Hopscotch United
>>
>> Is WIMM still going? Is Serendipity officially dead? Ditto Borealis?
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>> P.S. Had a recent contact from someone asking if Brian Dolton was
>> still around; is anyone in contact with him?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:31:30 -0000, Howard Bishop
>> <hbishop@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Having finally discovered that I wasn't receiving messages from this
>>> group because of a "soft bounce" on my email, I managed to get back
>>> in and came across some references to the death of the 'zine poll and
MfG.
>>>
>>> The 'zine poll was probably inevitable, but the latter was slightly
>>> ironic since I've had 3 requests for The Tangerine Terror from new
>>> subscribers in the last 6 months based on the MfG listings.
>>>
>>> A comment from the latest correspondent was that it was still "a
>>> great resource, but you needed to pick your way through the piles of
>>> folded corpses". John, do you have the stamina to delete references
>>> to the terminated 'zines on your website?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Howard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SPONSORED LINKS
>>> Play station 2 game rental  Play free online games  Play Play
>>> station 2 games  Play station 2 game console  Sony play station game
>>>
>>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>>
>>> Visit your group "ukpbm" on the web.
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>> ukpbm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>>>
>>>
>>> No  virus  found  in  this  incoming  message.
>>>
>>> Checked  by  AVG  Free  Edition.
>>>
>>> Version:  7.1.375  /  Virus  Database:  268.2.1/278  -  Release  Date:
>>> 09/03/2006
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Fiendish Board Games - makers of games in the German style.
>> Breaking Away, Office Politics and Traffic Lights.
>> http://www.fbgames.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



--
Fiendish Board Games - makers of games in the German style.
Breaking Away, Office Politics and Traffic Lights.
http://www.fbgames.co.uk



Yahoo! Groups Links

And I know it's on the wrong side of the pond, but my Abyssinian Prince
just hit its 300th issue (anyone who feels they want a commemorative
copy for their files can ask me), and I actually feel a bit energized even
though it took me two months of internal ranting and raving to birth
the landmark issue.  I've got a new regular Dip game opening up
that I'd enter any ukpbm person in for free, if you want to play
against Americans (that "free" comes with a life of the game sub).
Also, I offer Breaking Away for free, only a few more slots in the next
game of that are open!.

Jim-Bob

On 12 Mar 2006 19:20:59 -0000, ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
<ukpbm@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


>   Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:41:43 -0000
>   From: "Rob Thomasson" <rob.thomasson@...>
> Subject: RE: Mission From God (reprise)
>
> WIMM? is indeed still alive - less kicking but then David was besotted when
> he did the most recent issue ...
>
> Dane's Games' last list of electronic (only or also paper) zines was as
> below.  Minstrel should be in there but I need to remember to tell Dane
> that.
>
> Rob
>
> "... mais n'est-ce pas la gare?"
>    Editor: Steve Thomas (maisnestce*OF*aol.com).
>    Frequency: monthly.
>    Latest issue: #59, 18/02/06.
>    Format: PDF.
>    Runs: 18xx.
>
> "Devolution"
>    Editor: Tony Robbins (tony*OF*hollowell.plus.com).
>    Frequency: usually appears every 2 months.
>    Latest issue: #58, 05/01/06.
>    Format: Plain-text email.
>    Runs: Railway Rivals, Bus Boss.
>
> "Diversions"
>    Editor: Rip Gooch (rippingpubs*OF*yahoo.ca).
>    Frequency: About every 5 weeks.
>    Format: Word document.
>    Runs: Railway Rivals and variants, Awful Green Things, Maneater.
>
> "The Blue Nose Special"
>    Editor: John Colledge (dunorroch*OF*dsl.pipex.com).
>    Frequency: usually appears every 5 weeks.
>    Format: Word document.
>    Runs: A wide variety of games.
>
> "To Win Just Once" (also available as a paper zine)
>    Editor: Paul Evans (paul*OF*pevans.co.uk).
>    Frequency: About every 5 weeks.
>    Format: PDF (www.pevans.co.uk/TWJO) and HTML.
>    Runs: En Garde!, Railway Rivals and Star Trader.
>
> "Variable Pig" (also available as a paper zine)
>    Editor: Jim Reader (to subscribe, send a blank email to
> variablepig-subscribe*OF*yahoogroups.co.uk).
>    Frequency: 5-6 issues per year.
>    Latest issue: #101, 23/01/06.
>    Format: PDF file downloadable from http://www.sholing.force9.co.uk
>        Subscribers are notified of new issues by email.
>    Runs: A wide variety of games.
>
> "Western Front"
>    Editor: Brad Martin (westfront*OF*hotmail.com).
>    Frequency: About every 6 weeks.
>    Latest issue: #78, 06/02/06.
>    Format: Word document.
>    Runs: A wide variety of games.
>    Website: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wfront has back issues.
>
> "Will It Lead to Trouble!?"
>    Editor: Andy Mansfield (andymansfield*OF*btinternet.com).
>    Frequency: Monthly.
>    Format: PDF (approx 3MB).
>    Runs: Diplomacy (and probably other games eventually).
>
> "Dane's Games"
>    Editor: Dane Maslen (dane.maslen*OF*virgin.net).
>    Frequency: Every 4-5 weeks.
>    Format: HTML-format email.
>    Runs: Outpost plus various mass-participation games (e.g. By Popular
>        Demand).
>    Website: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/danemaslen/danesgames has back
>        issues.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukpbm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
> Harrington
> Sent: 11 March 2006 14:57
> To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Mission From God (reprise)
>
> Printed or electronic is fine by me, so long as they are recognisably ziney
> - by which I mean, downloadable as a single entity.
>
>
> John
>
> On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:11:43 -0000, Richard Smith
> <richard@...> wrote:
>
> > John,
> >
> > Are you only interested in printed zines or are you after electronic
> > ones too? Devolution and Dane's Games (both email) are still going
> > strong and Will It Lead to Trouble? has made an impressive comeback
> > (graphic-rich PDF contact andymansfield@... for a sample
> > copy).
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > P.S. WIMM? is still alive and kicking :-)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Harrington" <fiendish@...>
> > To: <ukpbm@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Mission From God (reprise)
> >
> >
> >> Mission From God
> >>
> >> I'm prepared to redo the whole thing on the Fiendish web site if I
> >> can get a definitive list of who is still publishing now.
> >>
> >> What I suggest is that every editor reading this starts off by
> >> posting the names of zines they know to be still publishing. Ideally,
> >> they should also publish the e-mail address of each editor, albeit in
> >> the now accepted spam-killing form of "joe.bloggs of isp.co.uk"
> >> format, so that I can contact the editor and get the basic details:
> >> price, frequency, page count, issue number, editor's address, games
> >> run.
> >>
> >> I've given up hope of getting reviews these days.
> >>
> >> Off the top of my head I can think of the following Uk zines:
> >>
> >> Bloodstock
> >> Variable Pig
> >> Obsidian
> >> The Tangerine Terror
> >> Greatest Hits
> >> The Cunning Plan
> >> Ode
> >> For Whom the Die Rolls
> >> Minstrel
> >> The Blue Nose Special
> >> To Win Just Once
> >> Striker
> >> Hopscotch United
> >>
> >> Is WIMM still going? Is Serendipity officially dead? Ditto Borealis?
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> P.S. Had a recent contact from someone asking if Brian Dolton was
> >> still around; is anyone in contact with him?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:31:30 -0000, Howard Bishop
> >> <hbishop@...>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Having finally discovered that I wasn't receiving messages from this
> >>> group because of a "soft bounce" on my email, I managed to get back
> >>> in and came across some references to the death of the 'zine poll and
> MfG.
> >>>
> >>> The 'zine poll was probably inevitable, but the latter was slightly
> >>> ironic since I've had 3 requests for The Tangerine Terror from new
> >>> subscribers in the last 6 months based on the MfG listings.
> >>>
> >>> A comment from the latest correspondent was that it was still "a
> >>> great resource, but you needed to pick your way through the piles of
> >>> folded corpses". John, do you have the stamina to delete references
> >>> to the terminated 'zines on your website?
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Howard
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> SPONSORED LINKS
> >>> Play station 2 game rental  Play free online games  Play Play
> >>> station 2 games  Play station 2 game console  Sony play station game
> >>>
> >>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >>>
> >>> Visit your group "ukpbm" on the web.
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >>> ukpbm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >>>
> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> No  virus  found  in  this  incoming  message.
> >>>
> >>> Checked  by  AVG  Free  Edition.
> >>>
> >>> Version:  7.1.375  /  Virus  Database:  268.2.1/278  -  Release  Date:
> >>> 09/03/2006
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Fiendish Board Games - makers of games in the German style.
> >> Breaking Away, Office Politics and Traffic Lights.
> >> http://www.fbgames.co.uk
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Fiendish Board Games - makers of games in the German style.
> Breaking Away, Office Politics and Traffic Lights.
> http://www.fbgames.co.uk
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>

John Harrington wrote:

>I've given up hope of getting reviews these days.
>
>
John - please feel free to re-use any of the reviews I've done for the
fanzine Pixel #1, now available on the web at:
http://www.efanzines.com/CPG/
(The editor asked me to do "some fanzine reviews" which I intepreted as
including postal games zines as well as SF fanzines.)
The reviews of the postal games zines aren't quite in canonical MfG
format (no seperate list of games running & waiting lists, for example)
but are pretty close.
--
Peter Sullivan <peter@...>

A while back I said I was considering upgrading to a colour laser for zine
printing due to the current low prices, but I am yet to buy one. The reason is
that the cartridge on my black and white Samsung ML-6050 is still going strong
and in the interests of economy I should wait until it is nearly empty. Each
toner cart costs £80 and is rated for 6,000 sheets and so far the current one
has done 5 issues of Variable Pig @ 1,000 sheets, so must be about to expire. So
it's decision time.

I am quite tempted by the OKI C3200 which is under £200 and does 12ppm colour as
it is one-pass printer (rather than the usual 4-pass) but I've since been
leaning toward the Samsung CLP-510 which is slower (and much bigger) but is
higher quality and has a built-in duplex with "booklet mode" ideal for zines. It
costs about £220 and the carts are expensive but long-lasting. I have seen some
negative comments about it on the net regarding the "smart chips" in the colour
carts which allegedly indicate that they are spent too soon and prevent further
printing.

So the question is, have any other ziners taken the plunge on a colour laser? If
so what model and how was it for you? If not I guess I'll be the first and will
give you my verdict on the model I buy.

Richard

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Richard Smith wrote:

> I am quite tempted by the OKI C3200 which is under £200 and does 12ppm
> colour as it is one-pass printer (rather than the usual 4-pass) but
> I've since been leaning toward the Samsung CLP-510 which is slower
> (and much bigger) but is higher quality and has a built-in duplex with
> "booklet mode" ideal for zines. It costs about £220 and the carts are
> expensive but long-lasting. I have seen some negative comments about
> it on the net regarding the "smart chips" in the colour carts which
> allegedly indicate that they are spent too soon and prevent further
> printing.

More to the point, smart chips make it harder (tho' not impossible) to
do toner refills. I'm sure I'm teaching granny to suck eggs here, but
re-using toner carts is a good way of cutting costs - you can refill a
typical cart at least 3 times before it knacks. I've been happy with the
price & service I've had from U Refill (www.refilltoner.com) for
refilling my b&w laser, although I'm sure there are other firms out
there, maybe even some a smidgen cheaper. Their website currently lists
the Samsung CLP-510 refills at £27.49 to £32.49 ex VAT per colour - not
sure how that compares to buying new.
--
Peter Sullivan <peter@...>

Hi Peter,

That's very useful information as I didn't think you could refill "smart carts"
at all.

Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Sullivan" <peter@...>
To: <ukpbm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Colour lasers again


> Richard Smith wrote:
>
>> I am quite tempted by the OKI C3200 which is under £200 and does 12ppm
>> colour as it is one-pass printer (rather than the usual 4-pass) but
>> I've since been leaning toward the Samsung CLP-510 which is slower
>> (and much bigger) but is higher quality and has a built-in duplex with
>> "booklet mode" ideal for zines. It costs about £220 and the carts are
>> expensive but long-lasting. I have seen some negative comments about
>> it on the net regarding the "smart chips" in the colour carts which
>> allegedly indicate that they are spent too soon and prevent further
>> printing.
>
> More to the point, smart chips make it harder (tho' not impossible) to
> do toner refills. I'm sure I'm teaching granny to suck eggs here, but
> re-using toner carts is a good way of cutting costs - you can refill a
> typical cart at least 3 times before it knacks. I've been happy with the
> price & service I've had from U Refill (www.refilltoner.com) for
> refilling my b&w laser, although I'm sure there are other firms out
> there, maybe even some a smidgen cheaper. Their website currently lists
> the Samsung CLP-510 refills at £27.49 to £32.49 ex VAT per colour - not
> sure how that compares to buying new.
> --
> Peter Sullivan <peter@...>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

As I mentioned before, I was considering the Samsung CLP-510 colour
http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=2033

but I ended up buying a fast, economical mono with high print quality, decent
memory and duplex. The new Kyocera FS-1030D.
http://trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=2560

In the end I felt the running costs of a colour were a bit too high (even using
refills) especially given Variable Pig's fat size (ca. 52 pages) and most models
are a rather too big for my little spare room. So I wimped out. I wonder if any
other zine eds *will* go for it?

Richard

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Box front

HERE IT IS, AT LAST!!
THE WORLD CUP GAME

I know that a few of you have played my World Cup game. Now you have the chance
to own a copy!!

I am expecting the first delivery around 27/28 April, so I am offering a
slightly reduced price for those who wish to get their hands on one of the first
copies.

Normal price will be £29.95 plus p&p. It will be excellent quality, printed in
Germany by the same people who print the Kosmos games as well as many others
German games. However...

Special offer to anyone who orders and pays for a copy before 28 April!!

£27.95 plus p&p (The p&p will be £6.50 Parcel post / £8.50 1st class / or let me
know if you want to collect or if you want it delivered overseas) - yes it's a
heavy game!! Can't give much discount as it's been damned expensive to produce!!
It will be posted out on 02 May.

Please make cheques payable to 'Games for the World' or to me Shaun Derrick. I
can't take credit cards yet.

Website is still under construction. Anyone know of a good website designer
using open source stuff (Joomla/Mambo)? Yeah! I am struggling a bit!!

For those of you who have no idea about the game; it is based on the 1930 and
2002 World Cup tournaments. Players control roughly equal number of teams. All
matches in each stage are played simultaneously. Cards are played to score goals
for your teams - or other players teams - it's all quite strategic! Or you can
remove goals for infringements. It gets really exciting when you get to
penalties in the KO stages of the 2002 World Cup - it's just rolling coloured
dice, but the atmosphere is tense - the simplest things.....

I intend producing expansion sets covering all the World Cup tournaments ever
held. So you can get the complete compendium of World Cup games to play.

A few images of the components:

Part of the board:-

Some of the cards:-

Some of the pieces:-


GAMES FOR THE WORLD
PO BOX 4349
COVENTRY
CV1 9BS
or
313 Woodway Lane
Walsgrave
Coventry
CV2 2AP









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

________________________________

Box front

Hi all,

First, let me apologise for sending a mass email to everyone last time. I should
have Bcc's everyone instead of 'spamming' the lot of you.

Just to let you know that my World Cup Game is now available and I can now take
online CC payments through Nochex.

See www.gamesfortheworld.co.uk

All positive reviews so far from those who have bought and played the game. That
makes me happy!!

BTW I will be at this weekend's Beer & Pretzels in Burton on Trent just for the
Sunday 14 May. So if anyone wants to try the game out and even buy one avoiding
the p&p, I will see you there. If you don't know about the Beer & Pretzels
weekend, then see http://www.spiritgames.co.uk/bnpdetails.php

Regards,

Shaun



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

________________________________

Forgot to mention, I am extending the £2 discount offer, so please use the
'Quick Send' payment button (the first one on the E-shop) to enter a
non-standard amount of £34.45 for one game.

Shaun

________________________________


Hi all,

First, let me apologise for sending a mass email to everyone last time. I should
have Bcc's everyone instead of 'spamming' the lot of you.

Just to let you know that my World Cup Game is now available and I can now take
online CC payments through Nochex.

See www.gamesfortheworld.co.uk

All positive reviews so far from those who have bought and played the game. That
makes me happy!!

BTW I will be at this weekend's Beer & Pretzels in Burton on Trent just for the
Sunday 14 May. So if anyone wants to try the game out and even buy one avoiding
the p&p, I will see you there. If you don't know about the Beer & Pretzels
weekend, then see http://www.spiritgames.co.uk/bnpdetails.php

Regards,

Shaun



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

PSYCHOCON 2006

13th to 15th OCTOBER at the RIVA Hotel, LEEDS

I'm going to upload a couple of files to the FILES folder....

(1) a PYSCHOCON 2006 A4 "poster"

If anybody has a games shop near them and doesn't mind printing this
off and asking them to display it - much appreciated!

(2) a PSYCHOCON 2006 Booking Form

Again, use it to book yourself, or if you are willing to print some
off and donate to a nearby games shop - fantastic!

Finally if anybody here is a zine editor - if you can print both or
either in your zine - you are a star. I usually try to add some info
on the postal games hobby in the programme booklet - so send me some
details and i'll make sure they get included!

cheers

MIKE

Subject: EPS - INTERNATIONAL SERIOUS GAMING EVENT: HOW CLOSE TO
SUCCESS IS THE INDUSTRY?

EPS INSIGHTS :: 20/06/2006
-------------------------------------
On the web: http://www.epsltd.com/locate.asp?go=updateNotes
Search the archive: http://www.epsltd.com/locate.asp?go=search
-------------------------------------

INTERNATIONAL SERIOUS GAMING EVENT: HOW CLOSE TO SUCCESS IS THE
INDUSTRY?

* The International Serious Gaming Event (ISGE) held in Birmingham
earlier this month brought together developers, academics and
corporations to discuss the role of gaming in training and
education.  Though the speakers and attendees were unshaken in their
faith in the future of serious games, there was clearly a feeling
that time was running out for the industry to prove its worth.

by Majied Robinson, Associate

"I have never seen a good educational game.  It's been crap for
thirty years".  Dr. Brenda Laurel's quote, cited by speaker
Professor Ian Marshall of Coventry University, reflects an attitude
the serious gaming industry has faced for many years.  The principle
behind serious gaming is sound - taking whatever it is about games
that makes them engaging, and applying this to the learning
environment in order to stimulate unmotivated learners.  What tends
to happen in reality is that the incorporation of education into a
gaming environment has the effect of removing the fun from it,
leaving a product that is neither educational or engaging.  But the
undoubted success (and growing size) of the games industry, combined
with an increase in the number of unmotivated learners (both school
children and company employees) means that there is enough
investment to encourage optimism.  The speakers fell into three
groups:
the academics looked at the case for more research into games, the
developers showcased their technology, while the corporate trainers
outlined their criticisms and what it was that developers would have
to deliver.

Professor Marshall outlined his proposition for the creation of an
institute for research into serious gaming.  This would require a
UKP3m investment and he envisaged it as a centre where companies
would direct the activities of academics.  Importantly, the research
would also look at the long-term effects of serious gaming - an
important consideration in such a new and unproven teaching method.
However, Birmingham University's Professor Bob Stone was adamant
that this sort of institution would be a waste of money and time -
he pointed out that similar existing institutions had not proved
their worth and were closing down.  He agreed that it was the end-
user that should be directing the development of serious games, but
the risk had to be born by the developer, not by state funding.  He
also outlined some of the work he was doing towards developing
viable serious games, from training facilities built into battle
ships to the development of games to help the 500 British soldiers
who return home every year with post-traumatic stress.  He also
disagreed with the conference itself - saying there were too many
conferences and too many uninspiring speakers.  To applause he said
the industry had to make its case to the e-learning and training
industries, not the converted.

A number of developers were present at the event, and demonstrated
their technologies between speaking sessions.  The products ranged
from games that trained directly, such as a game for training road
traffic accident investigators in Dubai, to social network-style
applications for team building.  The price for developing games has
decreased drastically, with small developers creating decent games
for charity and public sector
causes in limited amounts of time.   Aqua Pacific demonstrated a
game they
had developed for the Women's Business Development Agency to
encourage girls to get involved in business and science.  The
product, a sim-style game called Sim Chemist, took three months to
develop and cost UKP50,000 - it is currently being used at centres
across Coventry.

BP's Joe Little made the business case for serious gaming.  His
interest came from recognition of the shortcomings of current
training, where employees were taken to off-site workshops.  These
workshops were costly, not immersive and very much a `tick box'
requirement.  They were often supplemented with e-learning, which he
criticised for not providing enough behavioural information and a 50-
80% drop out rate.  Games dealt with both these problems – a good
game is both immersive and as close to true experience as possible.
It is also repeatable and easy to distribute across a corporation.
But he warned developers how difficult it would be to sell such a
product to a corporation like BP.  Processes in the oil industry,
like many others, were very rigid and mistakes in the training
process resulting from a poorly designed game would not be easily
forgiven.  Corporations, especially traditional ones like BP, also
have a short attention span, and developers would have to prove a
return on investment within 3-6 months.  Looking at the games on
display at the ISGE, it was clear that the industry is not yet ready
for this sort of challenge.  None of the exhibitors could say that
they were yet making a profit; indeed, the closest was industry
leader PIXELearning which said that it expected profitability later
this year, though it may also take on further investment depending
on outlook.  Most of the others looked at becoming profitable in two
to five years time.  But it was also clear that lessons had been
learnt.  The user was now central, and pedagogy was being taken
seriously.  The industry knows that it will not have the luxury of
producing `crap' for another three decades.

A more detailed look at Serious Games will be included in this
month's edition of imi.

Hiya all - just found this and joined but from the looks of the last
message (October 2005) it does sem as though I am too late??

I run Dracs Games PBM and have done so for the past 25 years now

www.dracsgames.co.uk is my website and the two games I run are A Day
At The Races and Fallen At The First - both horse racing games.

I was a betting shop manager (just one of my many jobs) and used my
knowledge of racing etc to write my own programs for working out the
running of each race

If you go to my website you will also see stats for Cheltenham
Festival ( these are free and following them in 2006 gave us loads of
winners - all genuine and can be proofed. in fact in one race there we
founf#d the first three with a 40/1 winner and 33/1 2nd

Well how was I to know that the postings showed the latest at the
BOTTOM??? LOL