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Yet another lucky scramble   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #34066 of 42554 |
Re: Memorisation vs Understanding

Stefan Pochmann wrote:

> > > > ZBLL: z' U L' U' L R U2 L' U L U L' U R' (L-L')
> > >
> > > P.S. study the last 9 moves - you don't need ZBLL :-)
>
> Hmm, I can't follow. What last 9 moves, U2L'ULUL'UR'L or
> RU2L'ULUL'UR'?

The latter. See below:

http://vanderblonk.com/cube/cubeapplet.asp?alg=DR2U'RURU'RD'

> And what does it mean you don't need ZBLL?

Sorry, that was a reference to earlier discussions I had with
Johannes, but I will try to explain what that was about.

Most methods, including ZBLL and Fridrich, were designed on the
premise that symmetry is a "good thing". Symmetry means that in a
great many cases we can simply rotate the cube around, and then solve
the case using a rotation of an existing algorithm instead of an
entirely new one, for example. In other words, symmetry reduces the
number of cases that we need to memorise.

However, the position that I will argue is that symmetry is what makes
cases difficult in the first place, and is what leads us to memorisation.

There are three reasons why I think symmetry is "bad":

1. A system in which the solver only thinks about symetric positions
does not have closure. That is, the solver cannot make a single move
on its own without breaking out of the system and becoming lost. This
is why it is possible for Fridrich solvers can become lost in the
middle of an algorithm from cube amnesia. Simply, their system only
recognises the beginning and end of a sequence, and they are trapped
in a mindset that prevents them from being able to see the middle on
the same level as the ends.

2. Symmetric positions tend to make the shortest paths non-obvious.
e.g. when all of the unsolved pieces are on the last layer, and we
have the typical symmetry of U rotations, there are less hints
provided by that cube state as to how to start to solve that position
intuitively. Each move will appear to move the cube pieces further
away from where they should be (breaking the symmetry that is formed).

3. Symmetric positions tend to require longer, more complicated
solutions than asymetric positions. In a perfectly symmetric position,
the only way to proceed is to go out the way you came in (or a way
that is "equivalent" to the way you came in). If your system (i.e. the
set of moves/operations you are restricting yourself to) is such that
the way in is 1 move, then entering a symetric position is a waste of
2 moves. However, if your system is such that the way in is 2 moves,
then you are wasting 4 moves.

My method is fundamentally asymmetric. It recognises that while
asymmetric steps result in far too many cases to memorise, they also
make the cases easier to solve so that you do not need to rely on
memorisation.

Now back to the case given:

http://vanderblonk.com/cube/cubeapplet.asp?alg=DR2U'RURU'RD'

This is a typical position within the Heise system: the front F2L
column is free, the edges have been oriented, and the two corner/edge
pairs have been formed. The design of this step is such that it has
the following properties:

- Maneuvers from one position to another are very short (typically
between 3 and 7 moves).
- You never need to move too far away from a recognisable position.

It is possible to move between different states in this step using
only a limited number of strategies, one of which is demonstrated by
this sequence. In this particular case, we are dealing with strategies
involving three correct edges on top. We always deal with three
oriented edges on top, with the following permutations:

- 3 edges in correct order (as above)
- 2 opposite edges correct
- 2 adjacent correct + 1 incorrect (2 varieties)
- no correct adjacent edges (2 varieties)

.. along with one or two corner/edge pairs.

In each case, the edge permutations are fundamental and dictate the
kind of strategy that is needed.

The overall point was that if you make yourself familiar and
comfortable with the asymmetric positions, then you will find you
don't need to memorise large numbers of algorithms such as ZBLL. The
operations will be short enough that you will be able to see them.

Finally, to clarify how the above strategy fits into my system when
the steps are done in the normal order, here is a description of how
my method works in the advanced case:

1. 4 (potentially non-matching) squares
2. Edge orientation
3. 1 corner/edge pair
4. Edges + 1 corner
5. Last 3 corners

The relevant step is (4) in which we manipulate the edge permutation
while manipulating 1 of the corners. It sometimes (often!) happens
that you end up with more corner/edge pairs by this stage just by
chance, or because you have preserved them, and then you are able to
skip step 5 entirely. I'm sure Johannes will be familiar with this
experience.

The webpage describing this approach is still a work in progress, however:

http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/method/

I will hopefully have more time soon.

P.S. I should point out that my interest in designing this method is
in fact for speedcubing. That is, my goal is to find techniques that
enable few moves but ALSO a framework for allowing the solver to do
this at high speeds. I would still say it is in its infancy in this
respect. My fastest average with this method is 28.36 seconds and so
it has a long way to go.

--
Ryan Heise
http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/




Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:13 am

r_h_e_i_s_e
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Message #34066 of 42554 |
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Okay, these are always fun to play with. Every once in a while, you get a scramble where things just seem to go your way. I got one of these today, and got a...
christopher_pelley
christopher_...
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Mar 7, 2007
10:25 pm

yea the cross is nice and CE pairs are just right there and for me the OLL and PLL were very simple....
David
skaterinpain57
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Mar 8, 2007
12:32 am

... I couldn't scramble with cross color on top but I used the standard white on top and green on front instead. Here's my solution (10.27): z' y' U' r' U' R2...
Johannes Laire
rubiksnake
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Mar 8, 2007
8:09 am

... B' ... R' ... That looks very interesting but near the end I sadly lose it. Can you separate that solution into its steps and name them? Cheers! Stefan...
Stefan Pochmann
stefan_pochmann
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Mar 8, 2007
9:39 pm

... Sure, I just quickly wrote down the moves after the solve because I was busy. scramble: R' B L2 D2 R B2 U' D' R2 L' D F' L R2 U R' U' F' L' B D2 R' U2 R'...
Johannes Laire
rubiksnake
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Mar 9, 2007
8:07 am

... Thanks a lot, that's really fascinating. Is anyone else solving like that? And is this how you regularly solve or do you go different routes as well? I'm...
Stefan Pochmann
stefan_pochmann
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Mar 9, 2007
12:58 pm

... Yes, I go different routes as well, it depends on the case and what I see first. If the last c/e-pair that goes into F2L is simple, I might just solve it...
Johannes Laire
rubiksnake
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Mar 9, 2007
4:37 pm

... I don't think so. Johannes uses a unique blend of Petrus, Heise and Mirek's LL square cases: http://www.ws.binghamton.edu/fridrich/L1/ece.htm Petrus:...
Ryan Heise
r_h_e_i_s_e
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Mar 10, 2007
1:07 am

I do almost the same when I'm solving for FMC. I wouldn't have seen as much as he did though. I *should* know all those ZBLL subset cases where there is a...
d_funny007
Offline
Mar 10, 2007
10:25 pm

... That's a cool idea. If you're a Petrus solver, you already have the block building instincts, so why not put them to work even more. How many of those...
Lars Petrus
gorimek
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Mar 9, 2007
6:16 pm

... 6 permutations * 9 orientations = 54 positions One of them is solved and some cases appear more than once so I think the final number is 49. Many corner...
Johannes Laire
rubiksnake
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Mar 10, 2007
11:00 am

B2 D' F2 R2 B' F2 L' R2 B L2 F2 U2 R' F' D' L2 U' B R B2 R2 F2 L2 D2 L 9.12 seconds Dan H :) www.cubestation.co.uk...
Dan
hatadey
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Mar 15, 2007
11:01 am

Yeah that's another good one! Did you go for the xcross? Chris...
christopher_pelley
christopher_...
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Mar 15, 2007
1:09 pm

... Hi Johannes, The this doesn't seems to match the scramble - is there a typo? P.S. study the last 9 moves - you don't need ZBLL :-) -- Ryan Heise ...
Ryan Heise
r_h_e_i_s_e
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Mar 10, 2007
12:19 am

... Hi Ryan, It seems to work fine for me, but there are so many cube rotations that it's not very easy to follow. In plain UDFBLR: R' B' D' F2 L' D F' U L' U'...
Johannes Laire
rubiksnake
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Mar 10, 2007
11:15 am

... to ... Hmm, I can't follow. What last 9 moves, U2L'ULUL'UR'L or RU2L'ULUL'UR'? Both have non-trivial effects for me. And what does it mean you don't need...
Stefan Pochmann
stefan_pochmann
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Mar 10, 2007
6:00 pm

... The latter. See below: http://vanderblonk.com/cube/cubeapplet.asp?alg=DR2U'RURU'RD' ... Sorry, that was a reference to earlier discussions I had with ...
Ryan Heise
r_h_e_i_s_e
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Mar 11, 2007
2:13 am

B2 U' B2 F2 U' R2 B' R B2 F' L2 R B' F' U' L2 B2 F2 L2 R' D2 L2 D U L2 R B F' D2 L2 13.69 sec new personal best x cross with 2 more CE pairs already solved...
David
skaterinpain57
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Mar 18, 2007
7:43 pm
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