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Designing the ice rig Red Dwarf   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #76313 of 82049 |
Re: Designing the ice rig Red Dwarf

--- In sfconsim-l@yahoogroups.com, Henry Cobb <henry_cobb@...> wrote:

> > From: Isaac Kuo <mechdan@...>
> > Where is this small comet, and how much delta-v are we
> > talking about? How do we move it?

> Moving just takes a mirror in orbit around it and selective
> heating to vent reaction mass.

This is going to be problematic for many reasons. For one thing, the
exhaust velocity will be very poor, but that's just for starters.

If you've got a decent amount of sunlight to work with, then the comet
will be outgassing chaotically anyway due to direct sunlight heating.
The halo of dust/gas will complicate your efforts to concentrate
sunlight onto the surface.

The surface will likely not be snow/ice since that may have already
ablated off. Instead, you may be heating up a dark surface material,
which then loses heat to snow/ice that outgasses in arbitrary
directions at low velocities.

If the comet is small enough to be nudged around by these weak
outgassing forces, then chaotic effects from natural sunlight caused
outgassing will be constantly messing with your aim. For your mirror
to pump more energy into the comet than direct sunlight, then the area
needs to be much greater than the comet's...so...

> You catch a tiny comet just as it goes short period and
> nudge it past a few planets to bring it to Earth.

Only possible if the comet is flying along the ecliptic and already on
a near impact course with another planet.

> Then just baggie it and harvest the water vapor as it melts.

...My gut feeling is that the only way you're going to get any sort of
directed thrust is if you bag it to begin with. That way, all
outgassing in all directions produces gas which ultimately gets
released only in your desired direction. Your bag has one or more
aimable rocket thrusters which you "activate" by releasing a valve.
The exhaust velocity is still pathetic, of course.

> Grab one a decade and you're golden.

How many decades is this mission supposed to take?

Isaac Kuo





Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:27 am

mechdan
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Here's the basic timing for an early JMC ice mining mission: 2.75y Earth->Jupiter 0.75y Jupiter->outer moon 1.00y mining (half an orbit) 0.75y outer...
Isaac Kuo
mechdan
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Jan 12, 2009
7:51 pm

... returns will compare favorably with the investment time for establishing lunar aluminum/lox refineries. Return rates are practically lost in the noise...
rmrobinson1227
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Jan 12, 2009
9:15 pm

... It may be that any gaps that allow the steam to escape will cause the steam to condense to ice as it percolates through the cold rubble, thus sealing that...
Luke Campbell
panoptes5
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Jan 12, 2009
11:09 pm

... Yes, consider this my official surrender to your point of view. For kicks, I calculated some numbers for Saturn, and it actually looks almost as good as...
mechdan
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Jan 13, 2009
2:20 am

... LOL - apt analogy! Instead, you can repeatedly poke ... Agreed, but give it a dedicated dish instead of slewing around a main collector. ... I'd only...
rmrobinson1227
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Jan 13, 2009
4:48 am

... This has problems with the dishes having limited arcs and getting in each other's way. Remember, you're parked on a rotating asteroid and the main...
Isaac Kuo
mechdan
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Jan 13, 2009
4:48 pm

I've thought of a mechanism which combines both "feeding methods". The spine of the ship is a single strong pipe, and the heavy tanks are mounted on a sliding...
Isaac Kuo
mechdan
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Jan 13, 2009
5:35 pm

... Why have any tanks at all? Just send a mirror out to bring the entire ice cube back and do your processing at home. -HJC...
Henry Cobb
henry_cobb
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Jan 13, 2009
6:24 pm

... Ah, that old gag from Isaac Asimov's THE MARTIAN WAY...
Winchell Chung
nyrathwiz
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Jan 13, 2009
6:42 pm

... For many reasons. ... You need to process about half of the harvested H2O into LOX/LH2 in order to get back home. That's assuming you take advantage of...
Isaac Kuo
mechdan
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Jan 13, 2009
7:13 pm

... Grab an ice cube that is already headed this way. How many years will it take your entire orbital industry to use up one small comet? -HJC...
Henry Cobb
henry_cobb
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Jan 13, 2009
9:43 pm

... Where is this small comet, and how much delta-v are we talking about? How do we move it? Isaac Kuo mechdan@......
Isaac Kuo
mechdan
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Jan 13, 2009
9:53 pm

... Moving just takes a mirror in orbit around it and selective heating to vent reaction mass. You catch a tiny comet just as it goes short period and nudge it...
Henry Cobb
henry_cobb
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Jan 14, 2009
7:54 am

... This is going to be problematic for many reasons. For one thing, the exhaust velocity will be very poor, but that's just for starters. If you've got a...
mechdan
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Jan 14, 2009
8:28 am
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