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Reply | Forward Message #71115 of 82047 |
Re: List Conservatisms

--- In sfconsim-l@yahoogroups.com, "rmrobinson1227" <Lyonesse@...> wrote:

> Though for his general mid-future interplanetary tech, Isaac is also
> pretty conservative. His whole "electric railroad" (my term, not his)
> tech of lasers scooting cargo canisters around the Solar System is
> probably more comparable to nuke-electric tech than torch tech.

> And even though Orion has the moral quality of a drive that operates
> by vaporizing kittens at 1-second intervals, I have to admit that it
> is the one plausible space drive for which you can cue "Ride of the
> Valkyries" when you light it off. :>

Now that I think about it, my trend has indeed been toward more and
more conservative.

When I first joined the list, my favored interplanetary warship drive
was mag-Orion. Very powerful. VERY expensive, and I didn't really
appreciate how expensive.

Then I sort of grudgingly accepted that probably nuclear-thermal or
nuclear-electric would be more practical. I still kept the idea of
laser powered civilian transport, which could also be used by the
military.

Then I had a big shift when I was reading about solar panel
performance and realized to my shock that within a few decades solar
panels would be on par with my baseline specific power values for
vapor core nuclear reactors (a beast which does not yet exist, whereas
solar panels do).

Currently, I still think laser powered civilian transport may
eventually be used for launching stuff from the surface of Earth and
maybe Mars, but solar-electric may be used for everything else. The
next century is simply not going to see the huge volumes of
interplanetary space transport which would justify a laser powered
launch system, but it will see a large civilian market for solar
panels pushing down costs.

So overall, my progression has been going from futuristic/expensive
propulsion systems which don't exist, down to conservative propulsion
systems which do exist.

Isaac Kuo





Sun May 25, 2008 3:26 pm

mechdan
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Message #71115 of 82047 |
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... You may be right about this, because over the years, Outrageous Power Ratings have been by far the main thing pushing me in a conservative direction. The...
rmrobinson1227
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May 25, 2008
1:52 pm

... Now that I think about it, my trend has indeed been toward more and more conservative. When I first joined the list, my favored interplanetary warship...
mechdan
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May 25, 2008
3:26 pm

... drive ... Heh. When I joined the list, I was eschewing fusion reactors in favor of Nuclear Salt Water Rockets. Makes open cycle Orion look like a...
Ken Burnside
adastragames
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May 25, 2008
4:23 pm

Hi guys, I've got a lot of catching up to do... ... or ... of ... That's really the big if. I think that if solar power dominates, then there won't be much of...
mechdan
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May 27, 2008
3:19 pm

... Heard aboard the Solar Battleship Greenappease: "We're doomed sir. They've got soot guns. Our power will be chopped on the first pass." -HJC ...
Henry Cobb
henry_cobb
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May 27, 2008
3:30 pm

... less ... the ... They've got ... Whereas it only takes a few small holes to neutralize a reactor's cooling system. Isaac Kuo...
mechdan
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May 27, 2008
3:48 pm

... If you are generating the same amount of energy you'll need about the same amount of cooling. Have you looked at the radiators on the ISS? And it doesn't...
Henry Cobb
henry_cobb
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May 27, 2008
4:22 pm

... sir. ... the same ... The difference being, the cooling fins on a solar power array are distributed alongside the power cells. There's no need to pipe...
mechdan
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May 27, 2008
4:37 pm

... the same ... No, because you aren't producing energy, you're collecting it. The wing absorbs more heat than it converts to electricity, but the back side...
rmrobinson1227
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May 27, 2008
5:12 pm

... Why wouldn't you have an electric weapon with the same power requirement as your drive and so the same cooling requirement? http://www.io.com/~hcobb...
Henry Cobb
henry_cobb
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May 27, 2008
6:00 pm

... requirement as ... Sure you can. The cooling requirement may be different, though, depending on efficiency and operating temperature. Anything that can run...
rmrobinson1227
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May 27, 2008
7:03 pm

... Depending on the efficiency of the power generator, the radiator requirements for the generator alone may dominate over the radiator requirements of the...
mechdan
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May 28, 2008
3:25 am

... less ... the ... They've got ... 1: It should be simple to orient your solar cells parallel to the vector of any incoming soot cloud. This will probably...
Jonathan
linguofreak
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May 27, 2008
6:56 pm

... While soot even stick? If it hits at high speed, over a few hundred m/s for sure, more likely it erodes the surface some, but bounces off so to speak...
rmrobinson1227
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May 27, 2008
7:07 pm

On Tue, 27 May 2008 21:07:40 +0200, rmrobinson1227 <Lyonesse@...> wrote: [...] ... Hmm, it's almost like sailing in space. ;-) When racing...
Leszek Karlik
drone23lk
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May 27, 2008
10:11 pm

... off ... Eroding the lens surfaces or otherwise affecting the optical properties of concentrator cells seriously reduces their performance. Think I...
apresby2002
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May 28, 2008
12:21 am

... Unless you are engaging at very tiny speeds then, according to Rick's law, a cloud of soot will probably rip your solar panels to shreds, not cover them...
Satan_Klaus
satan_klaus_24
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May 27, 2008
7:29 pm

... not ... Granted. Though it depends to some degree on what light absorbtion per unit mass you can get with your soot. You might get some interesting effects...
Jonathan
linguofreak
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May 27, 2008
9:04 pm

... My one quibble is that this seems conceptually backwards. If people want to go past Jupiter, they'll build nuke electric ships to do it, but so long as...
rmrobinson1227
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May 27, 2008
4:56 pm

... Just for comparison, if you look at the heat output of the reactor core alone, modern helium cooled fast reactor prototypes get about 25 kW/kg of specific...
Luke Campbell
panoptes5
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May 29, 2008
9:15 pm

... around > 60%. Oops, the turbine converts heat to mechanical power, not electrical. You need to add the mass of an electrical generator to the reactor and ...
Luke Campbell
panoptes5
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May 29, 2008
9:57 pm

... For comparison, here's a reference about non-turbine based reactor concepts: http://ams.cern.ch/AMS/ETB/Appendix%20D-Anghaie.pdf Vapor-Gas Core Nuclear...
mechdan
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May 30, 2008
3:00 pm

... The key thing is that near 1 AU, none of this makes for much reduction in travel time over solar electric, because ships spend most of the trip coasting,...
rmrobinson1227
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May 30, 2008
3:35 pm

... Why not hitch your ship to the Energizer bunny for a quick hop out of orbit? You run on batteries for the first few days and then recharge while coasting...
Henry Cobb
henry_cobb
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May 30, 2008
3:57 pm

... of orbit? ... coasting or in orbit. Much worse performance than chemical rockets all around. The specific energy of the batteries will be at best on par...
mechdan
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May 30, 2008
4:06 pm

... For my propellant I choose the Earth, or more exactly the same field that supports the Van Allen belts. -HJC...
Henry Cobb
henry_cobb
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May 30, 2008
6:00 pm

... field that supports the Van Allen belts. This field is just strong enough to twitch a lightweight compass needle. If you push against it, you'll be gently...
mechdan
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May 30, 2008
6:12 pm

... coasting or in orbit. I don't think any sort of battery has acceptable power density. Even if you beamed power in, the drive itself would have to be about...
rmrobinson1227
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May 30, 2008
4:38 pm

... The entire blasted world is impatiently waiting for somebody to invent the perfect battery....
Winchell Chung
nyrathwiz
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May 30, 2008
6:27 pm

... Nifty! ... I think so too, in context with the rest of the paper. It also looks like you can use a sold core reactor with rubidium coolant in place of the...
Luke Campbell
panoptes5
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May 30, 2008
7:02 pm
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