RP 'Sheeple': WAKE UP!

Let me begin by saying that I am rather disappointed with much of the
state of RPing today.  I feel that people have lost their lust and
drive for really writing and developing plot and characters.  The
content of most RPGs has degenerated into nothing but constant "hat
tipping".  You all know what "hat tipping" is; it is when players do
nothing but introduce their characters and maybe show off the
character's supernatural-powers in a nonthreatening (and
uninteresting) way.  While I'll admit that a player should introduce
their characters, Role-playing should be MORE than just that.  If we
look at a 3-Act story structure there is: an Introduction, a Conflict,
and a Resolution.  The reason 80% of all new RPGs die out so quickly
is because they are all writing a story with an infinitely long 1st
Act that can only be destined to run out of steam from lack of interest.

But I am not sure whom to blame: the Moderators or the Players?

Half of all the destined-to-die RPGs I have played are because of Mods
who insist on the game being played THEIR way.  While sometimes they
have a story (and sometimes they don't), these Mods make a point to
squash out any and all of the other players' story ideas.  They
usually claim to do this because they say the player has over stepped
their bounds.  WHAT!?  If writing a story is overstepping the bounds,
then what do these Mods think the players are supposed to do?  I will
tell you.  Players stuck in these Nazi-controlled games are given two
options 1) react to the MOD'S story and never contribute, or 2) "Hat
tipping" with other characters.  Most players will chose option #2
because then at least they can contribute a little and show off their
imagination by introducing their own characters.

The other Half of of all the destined-to-die RPGs are due to these
dull unimaginative players.  I am not sure if the Mods presented above
have conditioned players to be this way, but when given the
opportunity to create most players will do nothing but "hat tipping."
  In games where I have Moded and given players the space to create,
they will usually just wait to be hand-held by the Moderator to drag
their character along a story every step of the way.  I am just saying
that it should be the players responsibility to create plots as well
as the Moderator's.  Now I am not all saying that all players need to
be Stephen King when it comes to writing, but a player should go into
a game with a little more forethought than "I'm gonna be Wolverine and
I hope the Mod makes him do something interesting."

However, despite all my ranting and raving I understand why this has
all come about.  I am sure once upon a time, in the early days of
text-based RPGing, there were no rules and games became teeming with
Mary Sues, God-moders, and other players who do nothing but ruin games
for everyone.  So, the Moderators of the day had to wrangle these
disruptive players in by controlling every aspect of the RPG.  But
what they did not see, was that new players were coming in all the
time who were learning from these controlled games and believing that
no thought nor creativity were the way RPGs were supposed to be.

But we have to have to HAVE to break the cycle somewhere.  Moderators
and Game owners: loosen the reigns on your stories a little and accept
that another player may want to take your story in another direction
or (heaven's forbid!) take their characters in their own direction.
You might find that not only are most players not dick-heads, but
their interesting twists in stories might keep you more interested in
your own game.  And Players: You started RPGing because you liked to
write or read, so show it!  Invent your own stories, and maybe even
add for your own villain to fight.  Create a character with actual
flaws (amnesia or being a adopted does not count) that they can allow
your character to grow and learn to overcome.  Finally, (if only for
me) limit your character introductions to only 2 or 3 posts MAX, after
that your character has got to fight something even if that something
is him or herself.

I know we all fear Mary Sues and God-moders, but an Internet of dull
and stagnant RPGs, I feel, is a far worst fate.

Viva la Revolution!

A lot more of these groups are destined to fail for another reason. You
ever seen how many one or two line post role playing games that are out
there? Heaven forbid you get an actual paragraph. The quality of role
playing games has just gone completely down hill. A free for all is not
the answer either. But yes, some mods could stand to loosen up.

A problem that I see as being just as big, has to be, without a doubt,
moderators of these games that ask for multiple revisions of a person's
character biography, without ever intending upon getting them started
in the game to begin with.

Story Tellers who feel the need to give false impressions upon how
active the game is, who keep a list of inactive biographies are
extremely annoying to me.

It also wouldn't kill people to come up with an original idea every
once in awhile.

Most of the ads that have come through here since the founding of this
group, are for craze of the week games. I guess that has its place
in the general scheme of things, but to see a little more creativity
out of the gaming world would be really nice.


--- In role_playing_for_dummies@yahoogroups.com, "Nichole"
<nichole672000@...> wrote:
>
> A lot more of these groups are destined to fail for another reason.
You
> ever seen how many one or two line post role playing games that are
out
> there? Heaven forbid you get an actual paragraph. The quality of role
> playing games has just gone completely down hill. A free for all is
not
> the answer either. But yes, some mods could stand to loosen up.
>

Those one or two line clubs put together by thirteen year olds hardly
qualify as being role playing games, in my opinion.

One of the first things that I do, when I am looking at a prospective
role playing game, is see how long the average post is.

I am a descriptive writer, and I want games where the posts are several
well constructed paragraphs.

Detail is also a really wonderful added ingredient within a game. A lot
of people could use some coaching upon how to do really good detail
oriented writing.

I remember when I took writing classes in high school and college,
the emphasis that was placed upon asking yourself, as the writer the
questions, who, what where, when why, and how often? When you are
writing it is your job, to paint a picture with words, to help
transport your reader to another place, and occasionally even another
time. Imagination is an essentail ingredient of course, but so are
well done, and well thought out descriptions.





--- In role_playing_for_dummies@yahoogroups.com, "Nichole"
<nichole672000@...> wrote:
>
> A lot more of these groups are destined to fail for another reason.
You
> ever seen how many one or two line post role playing games that are
out
> there? Heaven forbid you get an actual paragraph. The quality of role
> playing games has just gone completely down hill. A free for all is
not
> the answer either. But yes, some mods could stand to loosen up.
>

Here is where I point out that while that may be true for some of the
people on here bellyaching about round robin excercises with no rhyme
or reason, some of us actually do incorporate actual systems into the
games we play, even when we do them online. Sitting with cheetos at a
tabletop is no more valid a way to play a game.


--- In role_playing_for_dummies@yahoogroups.com, "Alexander Williams"
<thantos@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Nichole <nichole672000@...> wrote:
>
> > A lot more of these groups are destined to fail for another
reason. You
> > ever seen how many one or two line post role playing games that
are out
> > there? Heaven forbid you get an actual paragraph. The quality of role
> > playing games has just gone completely down hill. A free for all
is not
> > the answer either. But yes, some mods could stand to loosen up.
>
>
> Is this where I step in and point out that what you ladies are
describing
> really aren't role-playing games? I think that's my usual role here,
punnily
> enough. I haven't laid it out in the forum in a while, so I suppose it's
> time to revisit that essay again.
>
> Consider the elements of the term: role-playing game. The forum-based
> prose-content exchanges in question definitely involve roles. They
involve
> playing. But there is an almost total (and in most cases, is a total)
> absence of game involved. While trying to gauge the limits of each
> Moderator, their intents, and then trying to write something that
plays to
> them might, technically, describe a "game," but that game is not the
"game"
> people generally signed on for.
>
> The problem as I see it, and speaking as someone who's written for and
> designed actual RPGs over the years, is the absence of actual mechanics
> which govern interactions and which are known to all the players
up-front.
> There are an increasing number of game designs which are Game
Masterless,
> that is which don't require anything but an actual "moderator" for a
> community and not someone overseeing the play itself, because the game
> has discernible rules which help govern and shape interaction.
>
> There've been a lot of game developments in the past year or two I
haven't
> gotten around to mentioning on here as suggestions and guides, but I
> certainly can and should now:
>
>    - Lexicon: an RPG
<http://www.20by20room.com/2003/11/lexicon_an_rpg.html>
>
>
> Absolutely something that can (and arguably should!) be played online,
> requires no Moderators in the draconian sense you guys've been using and
> turns out something very, very cool. Totally breaks the general
theme of a
> "round-robin prose-writing exercise" while turning it into a "structured
> simultaneous dictionary writing exercise." The rules are simple and
concise.
> I'd personally love to see what some people came up with as a result of,
> say, "a concise history of the Galactic City era and introduction of the
> electro-priestesses commonly thought of as magical girls."
>
> It could be I'm weird, though.
>
>
>    - It's
Complicated<http://dissolutegames.wordpress.com/tag/its-complicated/>
>
>
> Fairly straightforward to play online, it might actually be played
best there.
> Again, a GM-less game where the rules are almost entirely about what
kind of
> scene you can introduce when it's your turn and what other characters
> can/must be involved. No dice, of course, the main physical mechanic
is a
> large board which contains characters quirks and motivations where
you draw
> lines connecting them and other folks' lines they cross are drawn
into the
> scene. You can download a little tool to draw the board for free
from their
> site, so every post could easily link / embed the board at the end
for the
> next person to use.
>
> I actually ran this face-to-face at Anime Weekend Atlanta, and it was
> awesomely fun, but fell apart a bit in endgame for reasons I have yet to
> adequately work out.
>
>
>    - Dungeons and
>
Douchebags<http://www.slideshare.net/SquidLord/dungeons-and-douchebags-v01>
>
>
> Written by ... well, me. More of an unfinished sketch of a game than
a full
> game, it's still very, very playable and the engine could be turned
to any
> kind of ensemble cast game fairly easily. The key mechanic here, and
one I
> think would work very well for online play in general, is a kind of coin
> economy which lets players introduce elements, make claims, etc. Worth
> checking out and exploring.
>
>
>    - Universalis <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/ramshead/>
>
> I'm sure I mention this one every time I bring this up, but it's
really the
> father of most of the coin-based mechanics you'll ever see. Absolutely
> incredible, the only problem is that it generates an enormous amount of
> back-story that you'll want to keep up with -- and in face to face
games,
> that means you'll end up with tonnes of 3x5 cards sprawling around.
Online,
> however, you can use a wiki or Google Document to keep up with
things and
> it's an absolute snap. The one complication with running Universalis
online
> is that conflicts are resolved with die rolls. There are a number of
sites
> that'll do secure die rolls if there isn't a trust established between
> players, but if you trust them well enough, let them roll their own
physical
> dice.
>
> Ultimately, the problem as I see it isn't in the fact that there are
> draconian Moderators who want to run a freeform prose-based round-robin
> writing exercise like a LARP
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_action_role-playing_game> without
any of
> the support that kind of game has for resolving conflicts. In fact,
the lack
> of an understood, simple, straightforward means of resolving
conflicts (even
> so simple as "the person who created the scene has absolute
authority but
> nothing that occurs in a scene is necessarily binding -- including
death")
> is one of the things that cascades to all the other problems you've
> seen occurring in games, possibly including too-short replies --
after all,
> when people don't know and understand their abilities to narrate and
limits
> on narration, they tend not to.
>
> Just a few thoughts from the grumpy old crochety guy in the corner.
> --
> Alexander Williams (thantos@...)
> Operation BSU (http://operationbsu.livejournal.com)
> "Like a morning show. Only interesting. And at night."
>

--- In role_playing_for_dummies@yahoogroups.com, "Alexander Williams"
<thantos@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Robin <robinvoigt@...> wrote:
>
> > Here is where I point out that while that may be true for some of the
> > people on here bellyaching about round robin excercises with no rhyme
> > or reason, some of us actually do incorporate actual systems into the
> > games we play, even when we do them online. Sitting with cheetos at a
> > tabletop is no more valid a way to play a game.
> >
>
> Well, you could say that, but then you'd be caterwauling about something
> that's been sitting on the list for almost exactly a month, without
having
> addressed any of the issues which the original poster, other posters, or
> myself actually stated in the process of discussion.


Boy I dont know who was ruder, Robin or you.

I already know you have a prejudice against PBEM's, and Robin does
have a point about how its not impossible to implement system
resolutions into online role playing games.

Its even possible to take already existing systems like gurps, and to
adjust them for play online adding a few house rules to the mix. So I
say in a sense Robin is not wrong, and in a sense your not either.
When it comes to the issue.

But your both not twelve years old, so do try and respect each other
on my list.

---
> But your both not twelve years old, so do try and respect each other
> on my list.
>

I find the insinuation that online games are not a valid way to role
play insulting. Or the insinuation that every game online is the same,
and has no system resolution. I'd ask mr. Thanatos if he's ever even
been in a single game.

I've used more than one system sucessfully for combat resolution.

One of my most successful has been to use chat rooms with dice rollers
already in the them, and to have my players take preestablished turns
so its not a free for all.

So yes, I've used a system. It may not have been from a book purchased
from somebody's store, I may have made it myself, but its not less valid.

Well where I see your point, dont make my admonishments about being
polite to each other as successful as the Hindenburg, get me?
Respectfully discuss this issue or dont discuss it at all.

This can be used both in text based role playing games (ie, yahoo
groups), in books, or in any general writing that you do. I by no means
claim to be an expert in this area. If anyone has anything to add to
this, feel free. That's what this group is about.

NON DESCRIPTIVE WRITING

Badahur sat in the stool at the bar waiting for his beer.

DESCRIPTIVE WRITING

The clinking of glasses was hard to ignore in this place. It was packed
tonight, patrons nearly shoulder to shoulder as they sat in front of the
bar on wooden stools. The nose curling scent of smoke clung to
everything; that included clothes, hair, skin, even the walls. The
windows were fogged from condensation. Each breath a man or woman took
added to it.

Across from where Badahur sat, an argument broke out. Something about
money, but the exact issue was difficult to hear over the din of voices.

A dark hand lifted, and he adjusted the collar of his black fishnet
t-shirt. He was in a black sort of mood today. Black pants, black socks,
black shoes. Black skin. Even the chain around his neck looked dark
under this lighting, not shining and glinting as it did outside.

Across from him, the bar tender waved his way. Badahur waved back, then
pointed to the kind of beer that he wanted. His dark eyes watched as the
tender turned around and grabbed a big big glass. It wasn't for him,
though; he would need to wait, as there were dozens of others waiting
for their drinks tonight.

I've noticed that a lot of people dont know the difference between
Non-Descriptive and Descriptive Writing. When you are role playing
online, what you write is very important. Its important for it to be
clear, well written, and descriptive. Free from excessive grammatical
and spelling errors, is also a plus when it comes to writing.

Unlike when your doing live action and what you say, and how you say
it is important, you have nothing to go on to build a character aside
from the written word.

> Unlike when your doing live action and what you say, and how you say
> it is important, you have nothing to go on to build a character aside
> from the written word.
>


With that being said, how long do you think that an adequate
introduction is for a role playing character is? Do you feel you've
successfully introduced your character after a single paragraph, a
five or six paragraph post, or a few longer posts like that?

This is more my curiousity on how everyone else who does role playing
online likes to introduce their characters. I feel no matter how much
you like to try otherwise, a character cant be adequately introduced
in your first post. They must evolve a bit over the series of the
first few posts to a group before you really cant get a good feel as a
player for who your character is, as well as share that with others.

> With that being said, how long do you think that an adequate
> introduction is for a role playing character is?

That varies from player to player and character to character.

I would say however, no character is adequately introduced in a single
sentence such as this (Yet I see so many people who think this sort of
thing is good enough.):

Gwenevere pulled back her long dark hair into a ponytail, pulled on a
brown sweater, grabbed her keys, and started to head out the door.


Do you feel you've
> successfully introduced your character after a single paragraph, a
> five or six paragraph post, or a few longer posts like that?

Honestly, it takes me a few well constructed posts and actually
getting any character involved in the action with everyone else in
order to feel that the introduction is satisfactory.

I look for my posts to have answers the questions of:

Who?

What?

Where?

When?

Why?

How Often?


What in the world does that mean?

Who is the character? What is the character? (In so far as race goes?
Are they human, supernatural? what do they do for a living, etc...

Where is the character from? Where you live has a big impact on
things. A small town person doesn't see life in the same way as a big
city person, for example.

When is it? What year is it basically, and what time of day? The
season can add a wonderful extra element to your writing.

Why? Can encompass many things. Why are they dressed as they are? Why
is your character doing what they are doing? This is the time to get
into their head a bit and be creative.

How often? Can begin to get into your characters habits and rituals.
People have them, you have them, so would a character. Getting up at a
certain time, wearing a certain kind of perfume, praying every morning
and night, or, whatever.


> This is more my curiousity on how everyone else who does role playing
> online likes to introduce their characters. I feel no matter how much
> you like to try otherwise, a character cant be adequately introduced
> in your first post.


I agree. Its impossible to introduce a character in just one post.


They must evolve a bit over the series of the
> first few posts to a group before you really cant get a good feel as a
> player for who your character is, as well as share that with others.
>

While I am happy to know that I am not the only one who has seen the
recent decay in text based RPGing, I think we  are both looking
different problems.  When talking about post length, descriptive
writing, character biographies, etc. you guys are talking about the
quality of RPGs today.  In my initial post about all RPGs being flawed
from lack of creativity (from the Mods and Players), I was talking
-survival- of the whole RPG culture.  As much as I once enjoyed it, I
think that today's RPGs are based on a fundamentally flawed system,
namely: one that has an infinitely long introduction that can only run
out of steam and decay into entropy.

If even the poor RPGers who write terribly, but who tried at least
made the attempt at creativity, would be a small step to revitalizing
the whole system.  I have seen some great descriptive and engaging
writers in my time RPGing, but even they fall into submission because
they are not allowed (or they do not think that they are allowed) to
create.  RPGers that are merely poor writers can get better with
practice and hopefully some helpful guidance.  However, this "Infinite
1st Act Syndrome" affects us all because no matter how well we write,
we might not be able liberate ourselves from this cycle.

As much as I abhor Mr. Williams' ideas about adding 'systems' to our
RPGs (because, I feel, they take away from what original drew me to
RPGing in the first place), if this is the only answer to stop the
decay we must take it.  But, somebody, please tell me that there is
another way that we may keep our pure creativity and not be bound by
any strict laws.

I fear that if do not make some kind of changes soon, all of text
based RPGing culture will run out of steam in an incredibly long first
act of Moderators and Players trying to treat the symptoms with rules,
but never curing the true source of the entropy.


--- In role_playing_for_dummies@yahoogroups.com, "Robin"
<robinvoigt@...> wrote:
>
> Here is where I point out that while that may be true for some of the
> people on here bellyaching about round robin excercises with no rhyme
> or reason, some of us actually do incorporate actual systems into the
> games we play, even when we do them online. Sitting with cheetos at a
> tabletop is no more valid a way to play a game.
>
>
> --- In role_playing_for_dummies@yahoogroups.com, "Alexander Williams"
> <thantos@> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Nichole <nichole672000@> wrote:
> >
> > > A lot more of these groups are destined to fail for another
> reason. You
> > > ever seen how many one or two line post role playing games that
> are out
> > > there? Heaven forbid you get an actual paragraph. The quality of
role
> > > playing games has just gone completely down hill. A free for all
> is not
> > > the answer either. But yes, some mods could stand to loosen up.
> >
> >
> > Is this where I step in and point out that what you ladies are
> describing
> > really aren't role-playing games? I think that's my usual role here,
> punnily
> > enough. I haven't laid it out in the forum in a while, so I
suppose it's
> > time to revisit that essay again.
> >
> > Consider the elements of the term: role-playing game. The forum-based
> > prose-content exchanges in question definitely involve roles. They
> involve
> > playing. But there is an almost total (and in most cases, is a total)
> > absence of game involved. While trying to gauge the limits of each
> > Moderator, their intents, and then trying to write something that
> plays to
> > them might, technically, describe a "game," but that game is not the
> "game"
> > people generally signed on for.
> >
> > The problem as I see it, and speaking as someone who's written for and
> > designed actual RPGs over the years, is the absence of actual
mechanics
> > which govern interactions and which are known to all the players
> up-front.
> > There are an increasing number of game designs which are Game
> Masterless,
> > that is which don't require anything but an actual "moderator" for a
> > community and not someone overseeing the play itself, because the game
> > has discernible rules which help govern and shape interaction.
> >
> > There've been a lot of game developments in the past year or two I
> haven't
> > gotten around to mentioning on here as suggestions and guides, but I
> > certainly can and should now:
> >
> >    - Lexicon: an RPG
> <http://www.20by20room.com/2003/11/lexicon_an_rpg.html>
> >
> >
> > Absolutely something that can (and arguably should!) be played online,
> > requires no Moderators in the draconian sense you guys've been
using and
> > turns out something very, very cool. Totally breaks the general
> theme of a
> > "round-robin prose-writing exercise" while turning it into a
"structured
> > simultaneous dictionary writing exercise." The rules are simple and
> concise.
> > I'd personally love to see what some people came up with as a
result of,
> > say, "a concise history of the Galactic City era and introduction
of the
> > electro-priestesses commonly thought of as magical girls."
> >
> > It could be I'm weird, though.
> >
> >
> >    - It's
> Complicated<http://dissolutegames.wordpress.com/tag/its-complicated/>
> >
> >
> > Fairly straightforward to play online, it might actually be played
> best there.
> > Again, a GM-less game where the rules are almost entirely about what
> kind of
> > scene you can introduce when it's your turn and what other characters
> > can/must be involved. No dice, of course, the main physical mechanic
> is a
> > large board which contains characters quirks and motivations where
> you draw
> > lines connecting them and other folks' lines they cross are drawn
> into the
> > scene. You can download a little tool to draw the board for free
> from their
> > site, so every post could easily link / embed the board at the end
> for the
> > next person to use.
> >
> > I actually ran this face-to-face at Anime Weekend Atlanta, and it was
> > awesomely fun, but fell apart a bit in endgame for reasons I have
yet to
> > adequately work out.
> >
> >
> >    - Dungeons and
> >
>
Douchebags<http://www.slideshare.net/SquidLord/dungeons-and-douchebags-v01>
> >
> >
> > Written by ... well, me. More of an unfinished sketch of a game than
> a full
> > game, it's still very, very playable and the engine could be turned
> to any
> > kind of ensemble cast game fairly easily. The key mechanic here, and
> one I
> > think would work very well for online play in general, is a kind
of coin
> > economy which lets players introduce elements, make claims, etc. Worth
> > checking out and exploring.
> >
> >
> >    - Universalis <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/ramshead/>
> >
> > I'm sure I mention this one every time I bring this up, but it's
> really the
> > father of most of the coin-based mechanics you'll ever see. Absolutely
> > incredible, the only problem is that it generates an enormous
amount of
> > back-story that you'll want to keep up with -- and in face to face
> games,
> > that means you'll end up with tonnes of 3x5 cards sprawling around.
> Online,
> > however, you can use a wiki or Google Document to keep up with
> things and
> > it's an absolute snap. The one complication with running Universalis
> online
> > is that conflicts are resolved with die rolls. There are a number of
> sites
> > that'll do secure die rolls if there isn't a trust established between
> > players, but if you trust them well enough, let them roll their own
> physical
> > dice.
> >
> > Ultimately, the problem as I see it isn't in the fact that there are
> > draconian Moderators who want to run a freeform prose-based
round-robin
> > writing exercise like a LARP
> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_action_role-playing_game> without
> any of
> > the support that kind of game has for resolving conflicts. In fact,
> the lack
> > of an understood, simple, straightforward means of resolving
> conflicts (even
> > so simple as "the person who created the scene has absolute
> authority but
> > nothing that occurs in a scene is necessarily binding -- including
> death")
> > is one of the things that cascades to all the other problems you've
> > seen occurring in games, possibly including too-short replies --
> after all,
> > when people don't know and understand their abilities to narrate and
> limits
> > on narration, they tend not to.
> >
> > Just a few thoughts from the grumpy old crochety guy in the corner.
> > --
> > Alexander Williams (thantos@)
> > Operation BSU (http://operationbsu.livejournal.com)
> > "Like a morning show. Only interesting. And at night."
> >
>

--- In role_playing_for_dummies@yahoogroups.com, "Robin"
<robinvoigt@...> wrote:

> This is more my curiousity on how everyone else who does role playing
> online likes to introduce their characters. I feel no matter how much
> you like to try otherwise, a character cant be adequately introduced
> in your first post. They must evolve a bit over the series of the
> first few posts to a group before you really cant get a good feel as a
> player for who your character is, as well as share that with others.



Regardless of how long a post is, I think it takes 2 to 3 posts
Maximum to introduce a character before pushing him or her into
forwarding plot.  Anymore we need to know about your character must
then be told on the fly while the character is engaging in action.

Anything after 3 posts of straight introduction, and you are just
playing with yourself.

--- In role_playing_for_dummies@yahoogroups.com, "Nico Minoru"
<furou_fushi@...> wrote:


> As much as I abhor Mr. Williams' ideas about adding 'systems' to our
> RPGs (because, I feel, they take away from what original drew me to
> RPGing in the first place), if this is the only answer to stop the
> decay we must take it.  But, somebody, please tell me that there is
> another way that we may keep our pure creativity and not be bound by
> any strict laws.

Adding systems isn't going to solve the problem of a lack of
creativity which you seem to actually be complaining about. Have you
ever tried it?

A system doesn't suddenly set off light bulbs in peoples heads. They
weren't created to make people more creative. They were created to
bring order to chaos.


> I fear that if do not make some kind of changes soon, all of text
> based RPGing culture will run out of steam in an incredibly long first
> act of Moderators and Players trying to treat the symptoms with rules,
> but never curing the true source of the entropy.


I doubt the whole entire culture will go to the grave. Perhaps you
will lose your steam from the sounds of it, but the problems you
outlined before of many people not knowing how to make a decent
introduction that doesn't go on and on like the energizer bunny, wont
kill the motivation of every other person out here doing this.

> Regardless of how long a post is, I think it takes 2 to 3 posts
> Maximum to introduce a character before pushing him or her into
> forwarding plot.  Anymore we need to know about your character must
> then be told on the fly while the character is engaging in action.
>
> Anything after 3 posts of straight introduction, and you are just
> playing with yourself.

Anything after three posts of straight introduction, is just plain
ridiculous.

I have found several groups on yahoo in which character biographies,
when they are submitted, are nit-picked to death, and so many
revisions are demanded that what remains is merely a shadow of the
character you started with.

I've also seen other groups, where these biographies of inactive
characters are collected into a nice neat little folder to give the
appearance of a game being more active then it in face actually is.
I'm not even certain that biographies are fulfilling their roles in
the role playing world.

All too often, there are moderators with no intent whatsover to even
get players started, and that I have found to be the most annoying
thing of all. There are several really great groups out there, that
require 3 or more revisions on a character sheet after hacking up the
players original concept so much that the character is no longer who
that player envisioned to begin with.

If character sheets are a necessary evil, then something else needs to
happen as well. More guidelines need to be given to the players
writing them about what in fact someone is looking for, and moderators
need to stop asking for tons of revisions with no intent whatsoever to
ever get a player started.

> If character sheets are a necessary evil, then something else needs to
> happen as well. More guidelines need to be given to the players
> writing them about what in fact someone is looking for, and moderators
> need to stop asking for tons of revisions with no intent whatsoever to
> ever get a player started.
>

The biggest of problems we all face as writers, is there is always the
chance, that we put our TLC into a character sheet, only to have it
rejected. That stings, but its certainly happened to anyone who plays
text based role playing games online at least once.

I have seen some people archive their character sheets and store them
away on personal role playing websites so that their hard work is not
for nothing if one group doesn't approve them.

You also have the option of beginning your own game at any time, and
setting your own standards.

Name: Benjamin Blessed Outcast
Age: 18 (19 on the 26th)
Bio: Greetings to all, in types of role plays I do, I play all kinds, I
love hearing a good story and I' m good at telling one. To understand
me I am more or less like Alice Cooper, onstage some of my characters
are the most evil you will meet, but offstage I'm not really like that.
I am an idealist, and a dreamer, but as an artist my goal in life is to
make you use your imagination, so in my role plays expect a wild ride.
I have been role playing for 6 years now, and right now it is going
stronger than ever. I own the OutcastLand group, one of these days I'm
going to make it into a web page.

The kind of role play I am renowned for, is Outcast's Dragons, The
Tales Of A RagTags, OuTcAsT and the Book Of Old, and Benjamin's story
book. Mostly I love gothic, romance, mystery, real life role playing.
So any questions?

Character Biographies are in fact a necessary evil. However, like
most things in the role playing world these days it has been taken
too far.

Sadly, if you let new players have completely free reign in a game
there are those 1 or 2 who will ruin it for everyone by creating Mary-
Sue/God like characters.

The Character Biography is meant to aid further in the game and
actually has a lot of positive points:

1.) If the moderators are doing their jobs [isn't that an entirely
other issue?] then the profiles visible in the games should only be
of active characters. If that is the case, it allows recently joined
players to be able to do some quick research when dealing with other
characters.

I know as a writer I prefer to look at the profile of the people I am
involved in posts with so I have a better idea of how to react around
them. It allows for a better detailed post as well as offering more
for me as a writer to work with. For example, if my 5 foot nothing
guy is talking to a 6'4" muscular man covered in tattoos, unless my
character has a lot of bravado, he is at least internally going to be
afraid or at the very least sizing the guy up.

2.) The same above applying concerning moderation, the biographies
allows players to figure out what type of character they want to
create. If I see there are 8 royals but only 2 servants, I am going
to create a stable boy. Characters tend to be more entertaining when
there are not 15 clones running around.

3.) In theory the biography can work as a filter for moderators. If
someone creates a flawless character [I am talking full out,
unquestionable Mary-Sue who sings and birds flutter to perch on her
finger] the bio is going to show that and will allow the moderator to
take the necessary precautions.

Of course to be fair, I have to offer the cons with the pros:
1.) Moderators, as I have noticed was mentioned in former
discussions, tend to only use the biographies as padding to make the
group look more impressive. In fact from years of being in various
games I have noticed that moderators are the world's worst about
creating characters and then never actually playing them.

2.)  Again as mentioned in former topic here, moderators tend to nit-
pick over the biographies to the point it can drive a character from
playing. If they were doing what they are supposed to, the character
sheet would only request basic information needed for game play,
maybe a sample post and would clearly show what is expected. If
corrections are needed, the moderator should specify the exact
problems with an explanation and should not need more the one
correction. If more are needed, 90% it is the moderator's fault.

I know when I join a game and the character bio is asking stupid
questions like character's birthday, favorite color, zodiac sign,
favorite place to pee [because some of them are that ridiculously
detailed], etc. I roll my eyes and will likely just quite the game
before filling out that mess.


The question is which is the lesser of the two evils? In my opinion
that comes down to the moderator.

Anyone else?

By the way, my name is Roger. I thought I would just add my two cents
to the group. Well that and as a writer working on creating my own
group, I was hoping to gain the wisdom of my peers and those with
experience.

Hey Folks:

Attached is a link to my latest YouTube movie "Vendetta on Vilhon."

It depicts my gaming group's latest (mis)adventure in our Star Wars RPG
campaign.

Enjoy!

Ted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V_8Za-NanY