This is a supplement to Peter's previous post about VETO 2004 and
expands on the details of the mirror in Toronto.

U of T Trivia Club's 2nd Annual VETO Escapes to Toronto Ontario
(VETO) will be held on Saturday, July 17, 2004 at the University of
Toronto, St. George Campus, Downtown Toronto, Ontario from 9am to
5pm.

Since the university is very strict about room bookings (we were
able to book 3 rooms), the number of teams is limited to eight (8).
The tourney will take place at Hart House near Queen's Park.

As before, the title of Nerd Of The East (NOTE) will be presented to
the tournament's leading scorer. Players are encouraged to sponsor a
prize of their own.

For those coming from out of town, Toronto is easily accessible by
airplane, train, bus, and car. There is plenty of affordable
accommodation located in the downtown core near the university
within walking distance (or you can take the subway).

For a map of the St. George Campus please visit:
http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/

or view it on MapQuest (you may need to copy and paste this link) :^)

www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?
country=US&countryid=250&addtohistory=&searchtab=address&searchtype=a
ddress&address=7+Hart+House+Circle&city=Toronto&state=ON&zipcode=M5S+
3H3&search=++Search++



If you wanna look around T.O. before and/or after VETO, there are
other events to enjoy while in Toronto around July 17th:

- Art Gallery of Ontario featuring paintings by Turner, Whistler &
Monet (June 12 - Sept. 12).  Visit http://www.ago.net
- Caribana (July 18 - Aug. 4).  Visit http://www.caribana.com
- Cisco Systems Toronto Bluesfest 2004 (July 16 - 25).  Visit
http://www.torontobluesfest.com
- Beaches International Jazz Festival (July 16 - 25).  Visit
http://www.beachesjazz.com


Toronto Concerts around July 17th (visit http://www.ticketmaster.ca
for availability)

- Sting (with very special guest Annie Lennox) @ Air Canada Centre
(July 14)
- Nelly Furtado with Shaye @ The Molson Amphitheatre (July 15)
- Jewel @ Massey Hall (July 17)
- An Evening with Rod Stewart @ The Molson Amphitheatre (July 17)
- Madonna @ Air Canada Centre (July 18, 19, 21)


Details concerning eligibility, format, question packets and the
unique Trans-Canada Championship match can be found in Peter's
previous post.

For further information, please contact Rico at rcatibog@...
or watch
http://caql.org/events/veto04.html for updates.

Hope to see you here!!!

The Trans-Canada Championship Match is desperately looking for a
backup moderator to run a game over the telephone to Vancouver and
Toronto. The moderator can be located ANYWHERE in Canada or the United
States.

If you've ever dreamed of being a celebrity in Canada, or if you are
curious about how quiz bowl works over the telephone, then this is
your chance!  As far as I know, no other quiz bowl tournament has a
game between teams in different cities, even though we're using only
19th-century technology (that was invented in Canada).

Gabe Desjardins has written a packet for this game.  He's not
completely sure he'll be available to read it, so he asked me to look
for a backup moderator.  All you need is a regular telephone and the
question packet e-mailed to you by Gabe.  You'll need to make a 3-way
call, which any regular phone can do, and we'll pay you back for the
3-way call fee (if applicable) and the long-distance charges to
Vancouver and Toronto.

The game will be on Saturday, July 17, during the hour of:
5 - 6 p.m. PDT
6 - 7 p.m. MDT
7 - 8 p.m. CDT
8 - 9 p.m. EDT

If you can do it, contact Peter at pmcc@... (pmcc at alumni.sfu.ca).

For reports on the previous TCCMs, in 2000, 2001, and 2003, see:
http://caql.org/results/trans00.html
http://caql.org/results/trans01.html
http://caql.org/results/trans03.html

See the web page about this year's tournament at:
http://caql.org/events/veto04.html

To the UWO alum who wrote that bonus on Canadian indie rock: I thank
you whole-heartedly :-)


Hanson
SFU Quiz Bowl

Are the results for the VETO tee-dot mirror going to be posted? I'm
really interested in finding out about how the tournament back east went.


Hanson
SFU Quiz Bowl

After RR, it was:

Zhan's team:  5-0
Rico:  4-1
UWO:  2-3 (beat Ottawa, lost to Luke)
Ottawa:  2-3
Athenian:  1-4 (beat Luke)
Luke's team:  1-4

#5 & #6 played a match:  I did not get the result.

After some playoffs, we had:  1. Rico's Roughnecks; 2. Zhan's team; 3. Ottawa;
4.
UWO.

I have no idea about the individuals, but Bobby, Eric, and Matt are probably
well up
there.

BTW, great tournament in Toronto.  Thanks everyone.

Ben Smith,
U of O Trivia.

From: Ben Smith

To: qb-canada@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 9:03 AM

Subject: [qb-canada] Re: VETO Mirror Results?

After RR, it was:

Zhan's team:  5-0
Rico:  4-1
UWO:  2-3 (beat Ottawa, lost to Luke)
Ottawa:  2-3
Athenian:  1-4 (beat Luke)
Luke's team:  1-4

#5 & #6 played a match:  I did not get the result.

After some playoffs, we had:  1. Rico's Roughnecks; 2. Zhan's team; 3. Ottawa; 4.
UWO.

I have no idea about the individuals, but Bobby, Eric, and Matt are probably well up
there.

BTW, great tournament in Toronto.  Thanks everyone.

Ben Smith,
U of O Trivia.

Hello everyone,

6 teams participated in the VETO 2004 Toronto mirror and played a
full round robin.  Here are the standings after round robin (8
rounds played): (NB: R H's Fan Club = Luke Chao's Team)

Team            W  L  T   Pct   PPG  10  -5 TUH  PPTH   BH BPts   P/B
Zhan's Team     5  0  0 1.000 218.0  46   8 100 10.90   46  670 14.57
Rico's R'necks  4  1  0 0.800 263.0  54   7 100 13.15   54  810 15.00
UWO Alumni      2  3  0 0.400 153.0  34   4 100  7.65   34  445 13.09
U. of Ottawa    2  3  0 0.400 124.0  31   3 100  6.20   31  325 10.48
Ath TRASHedies  1  4  0 0.200  81.0  23   9 100  4.05   23  220  9.57
R H's Fan Club  1  4  0 0.200  67.0  20   6 100  3.35   20  165  8.25

TUH = Tossups Heard
PPTH = Pts. per Tossup Heard
BH = Bonuses Heard
BPts = Bonus Points
P/B = Pts. scored per bonus heard

In addition, the 1st, 2nd, 5th & 6th played one more game while the
3rd & 4th place teams played 2 additional games:

Round 9:  1 vs. 4 (220-185), 2 vs. 3 (185-100)
Round 10: 3 vs. 4 (45-125), 5 vs. 6 (70-125)

Basically, the 2nd, 3rd & 4th teams battled it out to determine who
would face the 1st-place team in the final.

Since 1 and 2 won their respective games in round 9, it would be
Zhan's Team vs. Rico's Roughnecks in the final with Zhan's Team
given a one-game advantage since they beat Rico's Roughnecks in the
round robin.

Rico's Roughnecks won the 1st final game 255-180 forcing a final
decisive game for the championship.

To complete the comeback, Rico's Roughnecks defeated Zhan's Team in
the 2nd final game 280-220.

Here are the final standings:

Team            W  L  T   Pct   PPG 10  -5 TUH  PPTH  BH BPts P/B
Rico's R'necks  7  1  0 0.875 254.4 82  11 160 12.72  82 1270 15.49
Zhan's Team     6  2  0 0.750 213.8 72  14 160 10.69  72 1060 14.72

U. of Ottawa    3  4  0 0.429 120.7 43   6 140  6.04  43  445 10.35
UWO Alumni      2  5  0 0.286 142.1 46   7 140  7.11  46  570 12.39

R H's Fan Club  2  4  0 0.333  76.7 25   6 120  3.83  25  240  9.60
Ath TRASHedies  1  5  0 0.167  79.2 27   9 120  3.96  27  250  9.26

Individual stats to come.

All contestants received a drinking glasses:

4th, 5th, 6th teams: shot glasses
3rd place: double-sized shot glasses
2nd place: freezer drinking mugs
1st place: large beer mugs

I'd like to thank all the players who attended and making VETO a fun
tournament and we hope to do it again next year.

Thanks again,
Rico
(Your Friendly Neighbourhood Tournament Director)

Full team and individual stats will be posted within the next few days.

Teams:
* [FrSd] FARSIDE:  Peter
* [SFUJ] SFU Fake Junta:  Hanson, Sarah, Victoria, Mischa
* [B2B] B2B:  Brock, Bruce, Shaun, Meghan
* [NTC] National Trivia Champions:  Daniel, Adam, Brandon
* [FOMO] Feast of Maximum Occupancy:  Tara, Idris, Herre, Phil
* [UBC] UBC:  Mike, James, Fred, Luka
* [CAWU] SFU Combined Age Well Under 100:  Geoff, Brittany, Joanne, Dean
* [OUTC] SFU Once Upon a Time Called MRSS Alumni:  Greg, Paulman, Rajon

Here are the results of the round-robin.

Round 1 by SFU Fake Junta
  SFU OUTC 145 -  50 SFU CAWU
       UBC 295 - 125 NTC
       B2B 260 - 160 FARSIDE

Round 2 by B2B
       UBC 295 -  50 FOMO
  SFU CAWU 130 - 110 SFU Junta
       NTC 220 -  90 SFU OUTC

Round 3 by FARSIDE
       NTC 170 -  85 SFU Junta
  SFU OUTC 140 -  80 FOMO
  SFU CAWU 100 -  85 B2B

Round 4 by B2B
      FOMO 185 - 120 NTC
   FARSIDE 190 - 100 SFU Junta
       UBC 265 -  40 SFU CAWU

Round 5 by UBC
      FOMO 180 - 120 SFU CAWU
   FARSIDE 145 - 135 SFU OUTC (in overtime)
       B2B 180 - 155 SFU Junta

Round 6 by FOMO
       NTC 235 -  50 SFU CAWU
       B2B 215 - 125 SFU OUTC
   FARSIDE 230 - 165 UBC

Round 7 by NTC
      FOMO 245 - 205 FARSIDE
SFU Junta 205 - 160 SFU OUTC
       UBC 265 - 165 B2B

Round 8 by SFU CAWU
   FARSIDE 240 -  95 NTC
       UBC 240 - 155 SFU Junta
      FOMO 240 - 155 B2B

Round 9 by Zhan's team
      FOMO 125 -  80 SFU Junta
       UBC 265 -  20 SFU OUTC

Round 10 by Matt Bruce
       B2B 165 - 105 NTC
   FARSIDE 360 -  65 SFU CAWU

After round-robin:

Rank  W  L  Team
   1   6  1  UBC
   2   5  2  FARSIDE
   3   5  2  FOMO
   4   4  3  B2B
   5   3  4  NTC
   6?  2  5  SFU CAWU
   6?  2  5  SFU OUTC
   8   1  6  SFU Junta

The tie between FARSIDE and FOMO for the #2 ranking was broken by
average normalized points per game.  We have not yet calculated
this tiebreaker for SFU CAWU and SFU OUTC.

So UBC and FARSIDE went into a best-of-3 final.  According to the
preannounced system, FARSIDE had a 1-game advantage because it
had beaten UBC in the round-robin.

Results of finals:
UBC 180 - 90 FARSIDE
UBC 205 - 55 FARSIDE

UBC wins!

UBC then played in the Trans-Canada Championship Match against
some players (all-stars?) in Toronto.  This time we had Gabe
Desjardins to moderate it.

Result:
Torontonians 325 - 145 UBC
Torontonians win!

Full VETO results for Vancouver are on the web page:
http://caql.org/results/veto04.html
and for the Trans-Canada Championship Match:
http://caql.org/results/trans04.html

To Rico or whoever else is compiling the Toronto stats:
We in Vancouver would be interested in learning just how you guys
did on our packets that you used there, so a "packet statistics"
section like the one on the veto04 web page would be nice.
Then we could compare them as we did last year:
http://caql.org/results/veto03.html#PacketStats

I hope this will spark some discussion.  :)

One of the prizes that we didn't have time to award at VETO was the
one for "best question" as voted by players.  Braintrust Games
sponsored a NoFrigginClue.com prize pack for this.  If you would like
to nominate a question for the "best question" prize, send it to the
Yahoo! group, qb-canada@yahoogroups.com, or if you're not a member
then to me (pmcc at alumni.sfu.ca), and then I'll post the list of
nominees so that interested people who played in VETO at either site
last weekend can vote for one.

From: Peter McCorquodale

To: qb-canada@yahoogroups.com

Cc: Brock Stephenson ; idmercer@... ; mathboy1986@... ; Mike Whitaker ; Hanson Ho ; Geoff Zenger ; Zhan Huan Zhou ; sfu-qb@... ; wazoobi@... ; hwiersma@... ; Bruce Lin ; Tara McFarlane

Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 2:19 AM

Subject: [qb-canada] Favourite VETO question?

I hope this will spark some discussion.  :)

One of the prizes that we didn't have time to award at VETO was the
one for "best question" as voted by players.  Braintrust Games
sponsored a NoFrigginClue.com prize pack for this.  If you would like
to nominate a question for the "best question" prize, send it to the
Yahoo! group, qb-canada@yahoogroups.com, or if you're not a member
then to me (pmcc at alumni.sfu.ca), and then I'll post the list of
nominees so that interested people who played in VETO at either site
last weekend can vote for one.

The Dutch tossup worked very nicely in Toronto, and apparently Dave was more
fluent than me!  However, I feel sorry for whoever was the poor moderator in
Vancouver:  last tossup of the final match, and stuck with a foreign language...

The Vancouver players don't know about this one, but Peter's tossup about Hart
House was a nice change from the BC-centric questions we had throughout our
playoffs (he wrote an Ontario version of his pack).  A Toronto question from the
West
Coast is deserving of some recognition.

Ben Smith,
U of O Trivia.

ps:  from this writing experience, I think next time I'll make my tossups a
little more
accessible, but still quite neg-prone.  Lots of negs encourage upsets :)

> The Vancouver players don't know about this one, but Peter's tossup
about Hart
> House was a nice change from the BC-centric questions we had
throughout our
> playoffs (he wrote an Ontario version of his pack).  A Toronto
question from the West
> Coast is deserving of some recognition.

I put some "Toronto-centric" questions in my pack. And I also had some
questions with "Toronto Version" and a "Vancouver Version". Too bad
that the Ottawa team go this bonus and neither version worked for
them. The bonus question was about free weeklies available in Toronto
or Vancouver. I hope the questions went well in Vancouver and I didn't
screw it up too much.

BTW, Hanson, I wrote a tossup question about Matador Records in my
pack, but it was like #22. I believe the UWO alum who wrote the indie
rock question was Jonathan Altman. I didn't ask him, but the fact that
he was wearing a Yo-La Tengo shirt at VETO was a strong hint.

Zhan

--- In qb-canada@yahoogroups.com, "Zhan Huan Zhou" <yahoo@d...> wrote:
> BTW, Hanson, I wrote a tossup question about Matador Records in my
> pack, but it was like #22. I believe the UWO alum who wrote the indie
> rock question was Jonathan Altman. I didn't ask him, but the fact that
> he was wearing a Yo-La Tengo shirt at VETO was a strong hint.

Haha, that probably would've been my favourite question (and
appropriate too, since, IIRC, I was wearing a Pretty Girls Make Graves
t-shirt at VETO). But yeah, the indie rock question (that was never
played in an official game here) was definitely cool. Out of the ones
we heard, I'd have to say the Bruce LaBruce question wins out for
hilarity. In terms of the best question overall, I can't say anything
really stood out.


Hanson
SFU Quiz Bowl

--- In qb-canada@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Smith" <uotrivia@y...> wrote:
> The Dutch tossup worked very nicely in Toronto, and apparently Dave
was more
> fluent than me!  However, I feel sorry for whoever was the poor
moderator in
> Vancouver:  last tossup of the final match, and stuck with a foreign
language...

Yeah, that probably would've worked better as an audio question...

> The Vancouver players don't know about this one, but Peter's tossup
about Hart
> House was a nice change from the BC-centric questions we had
throughout our
> playoffs (he wrote an Ontario version of his pack).  A Toronto
question from the West
> Coast is deserving of some recognition.

BC-centric? I don't recall an abundance of West Coast content. Hell,
if you want to add it up, I'll bet more than half of the "CanCon" was
"OntCon" ;-)

> ps:  from this writing experience, I think next time I'll make my
tossups a little more
> accessible, but still quite neg-prone.  Lots of negs encourage upsets :)

Um, what precisely do you mean? Accessible is good, but deliberately
misleading (or hosing) content, not so much.


Hanson
SFU Quiz Bowl

On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 09:41:32AM -0400, Andy Saunders wrote:
> I would like to nominate Ottawa's tossup about the Dutch language,
the one where the moderator spoke Dutch for most of the tossup. I
thought that one was quite clever and very much enjoyed it. (We were
told afterwards in our game that the first sentence of the tossup was
"If you know what I'm saying, say Dutch." in Dutch)

I was thinking of bringing this up separately.  As much as I like
foreign-language questions, I thought this one was ill conceived,
because ... it didn't sound like Dutch!  It would have been a lot
better if we'd had a moderator who knew how to read Dutch, but you
can't expect that.  Our scorekeeper, who took over when our moderator
gave up, tried to pronounce it in German instead of using the
gutturals and other sounds that would make it sound like Dutch.

Also, the question did not actually say, "say Dutch."  Here it is:

[moderator: phrases in the foreign language are in <b>boldface</b>;
just plow through it...]  <b>Als u begrijpt wat ik zeg, het antwoord
op deze vraag is deze taal.  Ik zal nu blijven lezend voor een tijdje
om de paragraaf op te vullen.  Ik zal ophouden gebruikend deze taal en
zal in het Engels binnenkort spreken.  Voor tien punten</b>, I spent
the last few sentences speaking in what language?
Answer:  Dutch or Nederlands
   (accept "Flemish"; prompt on "Afrikaans"; do NOT accept "German"!)

A translation, with help from babelfish:
"If you understand what I'm saying, the answer to this question is
this language. I will now continue reading for a while to fill up the
paragraph. I will stop using this language and begin speaking in
English. For ten points,"

Pronunciation on this kind of question makes a big difference.  For
example, Norwegian and Danish sound distinctly different (if curious,
check
http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/european_languages/languages/index.shtml
which is where I got the excerpts for my first audio bonus in
Vancouver) but the written forms are almost the same except for some
spelling and usage conventions.  So if this same question were written
in Danish but read with a Norwegian accent, the answer *would* be
Norwegian, and vice versa.

Unless they're in something like pig latin, foreign-language questions
are better suited for audio or visual (for written form).

In the Trans-Canada Championship Match, Gabe Desjardins read a whole
tossup in French, and no, the answer wasn't "French" :-) but Gilles
Duceppe.  I suspect that part of the point of this was that the Bloc's
website is in French only, so it makes some sense that a question
about its leader might be in French only.  Nobody else read
M. Desjardins's pack, but for handing off packs to be read by others,
French is different because in Canada you can expect that someone who
can read it can be found.

Has Canada's bilingual university ever considered bilingual quiz bowl
-- or unilingual quiz bowl in French, for that matter?

To respond:

>Yeah, that probably would've worked better as an
audio question...

Sadly, my audio recording capabilities were limited.
Perhaps what would have been better was a warning to
the moderator that they may want to skip it and take
an extra tossup instead?  I admit, some of my
questions (and edits to Michelle's questions) were
done so that <i>I</i> could read them comfortably,
without much consideration for the other readers in
Vancouver.

>BC-centric? I don't recall an abundance of West Coast
content. Hell, if you want to add it up, I'll bet more
than half of the "CanCon" was "OntCon" ;-)

True.  In my pack, I had 6 questions on ON, 4 on the
Territories, 3 on Quebec, 3 on the West & Prairies,
and 2 on the Maritimes.  However, being my first VETO,
I wasn't prepared for the "regional content" that
shows up, and that's why the BC questions stuck in my
mind.

>Um, what precisely do you mean? Accessible is good,
but deliberately misleading (or hosing) content, not
so much.

I try my best not to hose.  I know the rule:  the
first clue must contain a fact unique to the first
pronoun, and the first pronoun must be the answer.
However, I like to use a few trick phrases in the
middle that are true, but are more common for another
answer (like "secreted from... the pancreas" triggers
insulin rather than glucagon as a response for the
non-biology inclined players).  But, rest assured, you
can always hold out for the straightfoward clue after
"FTP".

>It would have been a lot better if we'd had a
moderator who knew how to read Dutch, but you can't
expect that.

As stated earlier, I admit that I edited the questions
I had so that I could read them well.

The Dutch question does have one flaw:  the first
pronoun is "[this question]", not "[this language]".
Thus, "tossup 20" should have been the correct answer
:)

>Nobody else read M. Desjardins's pack, but for
handing off packs to be read by others, French is
different because in Canada you can expect that
someone who can read it can be found.

I would be able to write a question in French, but I
wouldn't dare read it because I have already been
criticized many times on my poor oral French :)

>Has Canada's bilingual university ever considered
bilingual quiz bowl -- or unilingual quiz bowl in
French, for that matter?

U of O's student fed ran a bilingual quiz game.  The
reader would alternate one question in English, one in
French, etc.  There were also assigned questions that
were given in the language of your choice.  The
language issue actually worked out better than I
thought it would, but there were other issues that
made the tournament a farce.

Our club accepts bilingualism.  By rule, our president
has to be bilingual, and we cannot reject French
students from the club.  I (and NAQT) will always
accept common nouns and geographical regions in
French.  I, personally, will also accept created works
in French.  However, we have no source of French
questions at the university level.

Our native francophone, who does lurk around here, can
probably better tell us how well quiz bowl is suited
for French players.

Ben Smith,
U of O Trivia.

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 12:22:12PM -0400, Ben Smith wrote:

> I try my best not to hose.  I know the rule:  the
> first clue must contain a fact unique to the first
> pronoun, and the first pronoun must be the answer.
> However, I like to use a few trick phrases in the
> middle that are true, but are more common for another
> answer (like "secreted from... the pancreas" triggers
> insulin rather than glucagon as a response for the
> non-biology inclined players).  But, rest assured, you
> can always hold out for the straightfoward clue after
> "FTP".

Nothing wrong with that.  A player who buzzes in on "insulin" has no
grounds for complaining if previously given clues have already made
"insulin" an incorrect answer.  When we played your packet, it was
soon after another packet or two with a lot of clues that are "more
common for another answer", so there were a lot of -5's.

One of my favourite examples of this kind of "non-hose" was at the
very first NAQT ICT in 1997.  The tossup began: "This country's Royal
Commission on Aboriginal Peoples..." and in almost every room there
was a buzzer race with people answering "Australia".  What better way
of teaching people that the word "aboriginal" is used outside
Australia?

> U of O's student fed ran a bilingual quiz game.  The
> reader would alternate one question in English, one in
> French, etc.  There were also assigned questions that
> were given in the language of your choice.  The
> language issue actually worked out better than I
> thought it would, but there were other issues that
> made the tournament a farce.

What's the French word for tossup?  :-)

--- In qb-canada@yahoogroups.com, Ben Smith <uotrivia@y...> wrote:
> To respond:
> Our club accepts bilingualism.  By rule, our president
> has to be bilingual, and we cannot reject French
> students from the club.  I (and NAQT) will always
> accept common nouns and geographical regions in
> French.

Rules for student clubs?  I didn't know one could reject any studemts
from quizbowl.  Just kidding, LOL.  We should visit U of O so we can
witness a bilingual campus.  Perhaps we could centre our trip around
a tournament of some kind.  I imagine the language police must be a
hassle, hehe.

> Our native francophone, who does lurk around here, can
> probably better tell us how well quiz bowl is suited
> for French players.

I imagine the Anglo-Americentric (I don't know if this is a word)
nature of quizbowl is overbearing at times.  Perhaps he could
counteract it by creating franco-centric packs.

That is all I got, 36 is damn hot.

Mischa
SFU-QB

For the two B2B packs from this year's VETO tournament, I count the
following CanCon breakdown:

B2B pack one
* 9 tossups, including regional questions on:
- Manitoba geography
- B.C. architecture
- Alberta literature
- Quebec/Ontario geography
* 8 bonus questions, including regional questions on:
- Quebec history
- B.C. literature

B2B pack two
* 6 tossups, including regional questions on:
- Ontario history
- B.C. pop culture
- Quebec pop culture
- B.C. geography
* 4 bonus questions, non of which are considered regional in nature

Based on two packs worth of 24/22 distribution, B2B had 15/12 Canadian
content.  Of that, 8/2 is clearly regional CanCon.  Breaking it down
further into the way certain Westerners see the country, the regional
content is:
- B.C. 3/1
- Prairies 2/0
- Eastern Canada (although all questions in this category relate to Ontario
and/or Quebec) 3/1

As far as this year's VETO packs go, I doubt any pack had even regional
CanCon for B.C. and Ontario (the two provinces represented by teams at VETO
and its mirror).  In the future, I suggest, more teams attempt to find a
balance between questions about their home province and questions about the
province hosting the other half of the tournament, not to mention the other
8 provinces and 3 territories.

That would be enough out of me.

Brock (the person at SFU, not the university attended by Andy)

Here is the roster from the VETO 2004 Toronto mirror:

The Athenian Tragedies: Andy Saunders, Bruce, Mark
Reg Hartt's Fan Club: Luke Chao, Jerome, Imelda N., Vince Velocci
Rico's Roughnecks: Rico Catibog, Eric Smith, Ross Harris, Ben Smith
from Univ. of Ottawa (for Toronto final & Trans-Canada Championship
only)
University of Ottawa: Ben Smith, Sarah Kriger, Dave D.
UWO Alumni: Matt Trudgen, Jonathan Altman
Zhan's Team: Zhan Huan Zhou, Bobby Hsu, Neil Walford, Dave G., Dave
D. from Univ. of Ottawa (replaced Dave G. in Toronto final)

Please note that roster changes occurred for the Toronto final (with
Ben Smith added to Rico's Roughnecks & Dave D. replacing Dave G. on
Zhan's Team) & Trans-Canada Championship (with Ben Smith added to
Rico's Roughnecks).

The winner of the title NOTE (Nerd Of The East) goes to Eric Smith
of Rico's Roughnecks with a Points per game average of 68.75.
There's a tie on the most negs with 7.  The title of Most Trigger-
Happy is shared by Bobby Hsu of Zhan's Team & Andy Saunders of The
Athenian TRASHedies.

The final individual stats are listed below.  Please note that the
stats from the Trans-Canada Championship are not included here.

Player              Team              GP  10 -5 TUH PPTH Pts PPG

Eric Smith          Rico's R'necks   8.0  58  6 160 3.44 550 68.75
Bobby Hsu           Zhan's Team      8.0  36  7 160 2.03 325 40.62
Matt Trudgen        UWO Alumni       7.0  24  5 140 1.54 215 30.71
Jonathan Altman     UWO Alumni       7.0  22  2 140 1.50 210 30.00
Ben Smith           Univ. Ottawa     8.0  22  2 160 1.31 210 26.25
Andy Saunders       Ath. TRASHedies  6.0  17  7 120 1.12 135 22.50
Ross Harris         Rico's R'necks   8.0  19  3 160 1.09 175 21.88
Luke Chao           R.H.'s Fan Club  6.0  12  1 120 0.96 115 19.17
Sarah Kriger        Univ. Ottawa     7.0  13  1 140 0.89 125 17.86
Dave G.             Zhan's Team      7.0  12  2 140 0.79 110 15.71
Neil Walford        Zhan's Team      8.0  14  3 160 0.78 125 15.62
Bruce               Ath. TRASHedies  6.0   8  2 120 0.58  70 11.67
Zhan Huan Zhou      Zhan's Team      8.0   9  2 160 0.50  80 10.00
Dave D.             Univ. Ottawa     8.0   9  3 160 0.47  75  9.38
Jerome              R.H.'s Fan Club  6.0   5  1 120 0.38  45  7.50
Imelda N.           R.H.'s Fan Club  6.0   6  4 120 0.33  40  6.67
Rico Catibog        Rico's R'necks   8.0   5  2 160 0.25  40  5.00
Mark                Ath. TRASHedies  6.0   2  0 120 0.17  20  3.33
Vince Velocci       R.H.'s Fan Club  6.0   2  0 120 0.17  20  3.33

GP=Games Played
TUH=Tossups Heard
PPTH=Points Per Tossup Heard
PPG=Points Per Game

Once again I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Luke Chao for
booking the rooms at Hart House, Zhan Huan Zhou, Eric Smith & Bobby
Hsu for helping out with the game stats, Ron Nuriswah's sister Mel
for staging the Toronto side of the Trans-Canada Championship, and
most importantly, everyone who came out for this tourney.  It was a
lot of fun and I do hope we can do it again next year.  :)

I'll be posting some photos from the tourney on this newsgroup very
soon.

Thanks,
Rico

ok, some people seemed curious about this, so having played quiz
games in both languages, I'll try to comment the last posts.

--- In qb-canada@yahoogroups.com, "mischamakortoff" <mischamak@s...>
wrote:
>
> Rules for student clubs?  I didn't know one could reject any
studemts
> from quizbowl.  Just kidding, LOL.  We should visit U of O so we
can
> witness a bilingual campus.  Perhaps we could centre our trip
around
> a tournament of some kind.  I imagine the language police must be a
> hassle, hehe.
>

For the matter, Ontario teams will have the opportunity to "witness"
our campus during the BC Bowl Ontario mirror, which will be held in
Ottawa next October.

>
> I imagine the Anglo-Americentric (I don't know if this is a word)
> nature of quizbowl is overbearing at times.  Perhaps he could
> counteract it by creating franco-centric packs.
>

I was in the U of Ottawa team for the NAQT sectionals this year, and
in these packets and the ones we had practiced with (from the
Stanford archive, etc.), the American bias was somewhat greater than
I expected, mainly because there was so few questions about the rest
of the world.

I played Génies en herbe (French Canada's Reach for the top
equivalent) in high school and CEGEP, and apart from the Quebec and
Canada content (around 15% of a typical packet), history and fine
arts questions were centered around Europe (literature, of course,
was centered on francophone works). only sports and pop culture were
really "americentric".

so that's it for the content. for the quizbowl question format, it's
not really known in French Canada, so that's probably what Ben meant
by the lack of practice questions in French. there are open leagues
and tournaments in Montreal and Quebec where former high school/CEGEP
Genies en herbe players can continue to play. for example, one such
tournament was held this summer the same weekend as VETO, with 38
teams. however, those leagues and tournaments use the Genies en
herbe / Reach type of questions (it's just the difficulty level of
the questions which is higher), not the QuizBowl tossup/bonus format.



and for the translation of "tossup" in French, there's no exact
equivalent, but the word we use in Genies en herbe for those similar
kinds of questions is "cantonade" (in French "parler à la cantonade"
means speaking to the public at large, to no one in particular).

- Philippe

Seems like no one has really nominated a favourite VETO questions yet.
I would like to nominate the Oscar Wilde question which was not
written by me. The question had the quotatation "To lose one parent,
Mr. Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like
carelessness." I would like to say that I was barely paying attention
to the first part to this question, but when I heard "To lose one
parent, Mr. Worthing...," my head jolted and I buzzed in. I may have
technically answered the question incorrectly when I said "That's 'The
Importance of Being Earnest'...spoken by Lady Bracknell."

I'm not sure who wrote the question, but I liked it because of the
Oscar Wilde contet. Can whoever wrote it post the entire question?

My own Oscar Wilde question was on "Lady Windermere's Fan," and as a
bonus, I was able to mention Scarlett Johansson in it as well!

Zhan

On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 06:27:31PM -0000, Zhan Huan Zhou wrote:
> Seems like no one has really nominated a favourite VETO questions yet.
> I would like to nominate the Oscar Wilde question which was not
> written by me. The question had the quotatation "To lose one parent,
> Mr. Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like
> carelessness." I would like to say that I was barely paying attention
> to the first part to this question, but when I heard "To lose one
> parent, Mr. Worthing...," my head jolted and I buzzed in. I may have
> technically answered the question incorrectly when I said "That's 'The
> Importance of Being Earnest'...spoken by Lady Bracknell."
>
> I'm not sure who wrote the question, but I liked it because of the
> Oscar Wilde contet. Can whoever wrote it post the entire question?

That tossup was in the second B2B packet.

   3) Reacting to the news that her daughter's suitor smokes, she says,
"I am glad to hear it.  A man should always have an occupation of some
kind." On hearing about his parents, she says, "To lose a parent,
Mr. Worthing, may be regarded as misfortune; to lose both looks like
carelessness." FTP, name sly Gwendolen's mother, the woman who
interviews Jack Worthing in The Importance of Being Earnest.

Answer:  Lady Bracknell

On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 04:59:36PM -0000, Philippe Marchand wrote:

> so that's it for the content. for the quizbowl question format, it's
> not really known in French Canada, so that's probably what Ben meant
> by the lack of practice questions in French. there are open leagues
> and tournaments in Montreal and Quebec where former high school/CEGEP
> Genies en herbe players can continue to play. for example, one such
> tournament was held this summer the same weekend as VETO, with 38
> teams. however, those leagues and tournaments use the Genies en
> herbe / Reach type of questions (it's just the difficulty level of
> the questions which is higher), not the QuizBowl tossup/bonus format.

Wow, I never knew Génies en herbe existed beyond high school/CEGEP.
I found the website for your 38-team "Paléogénies" tournament in Sherbrooke:
http://pages.infinit.net/geh/paleos.htm
This was the 6th year.  The first one was just a month before the
first VETO.  Paléogénies says it has become "un classique estival".  :)

There are packets from Paléogénies III here:
http://pages.infinit.net/geh/paleo3_questionnaire.htm
Strange format...

Philippe, I also found the web forum where you've been posting:
http://pub47.bravenet.com/forum/3992438422
It's a lot more active than QB-CANADA.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 04:59:36PM -0000, Philippe Marchand wrote:

> so that's it for the content. for the quizbowl question format, it's
> not really known in French Canada, so that's probably what Ben meant
> by the lack of practice questions in French. there are open leagues
> and tournaments in Montreal and Quebec where former high school/CEGEP
> Genies en herbe players can continue to play. for example, one such
> tournament was held this summer the same weekend as VETO, with 38
> teams. however, those leagues and tournaments use the Genies en
> herbe / Reach type of questions (it's just the difficulty level of
> the questions which is higher), not the QuizBowl tossup/bonus format.

Wow, I never knew Génies en herbe existed beyond high school/CEGEP.
I found the website for your 38-team "Paléogénies" tournament in Sherbrooke:
http://pages.infinit.net/geh/paleos.htm
This was the 6th year. The first one was just a month before the
first VETO. Paléogénies says it has become "un classique estival". :)

There are packets from Paléogénies III here:
http://pages.infinit.net/geh/paleo3_questionnaire.htm
Strange format...

Philippe, I also found the web forum where you've been posting:
http://pub47.bravenet.com/forum/3992438422
It's a lot more active than QB-CANADA.


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Hello,

Thanks to a less restrictive student federation this
year, the U of O Trivia Club can now welcome U of O
graduate students as well as students from Carleton
University to be members for the 2004-05 year.  If
you, or anyone you know, fits into one of these
categories, do not hesitate to contact us at uotrivia
-at- yahoo.ca

While Carleton students will still have to compete
separately from U of O at official tournaments, you
are welcome to join us for practices in our Clubs
Room.  For the fall semester, practices will be held
1-4 PM on Wednesdays, 10AM-1PM on Fridays, and a
to-be-decided Tuesday time.

Universities outside the Ottawa area may contact us
via our director, Ben Smith ( uotrivia -at- yahoo.ca )
or our external representative, Philippe Marchand (
phil_mrchnd -at- yahoo.com ).  Our other executives
are internal president Dan Barber and secretary
Michelle Bishop.

You can play against Ottawa at Ontario Bowl in
October, the TRASH New England Regional at Brandeis U,
and the to-be-announced New England NAQT SCT.  We
will, of course, make every effort to attend any
tournaments hosted in Eastern Canada as well.

Thank you,

The University of Ottawa Trivia Club.
(Ben Smith)

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Welcome to another year of Canadian quiz bowl,

For the third year in a row, the University of British Columbia will be
hosting the B.C. Bowl, the annual tournament between the two universities
in British Columbia's Lower Mainland.  B.C. Bowl was won in 2003 by Simon
Fraser University.  The 2002 winner was U.B.C.
Results:
2002: http://www.caql.org/results/bcbowl02.txt
2003: http://www.caql.org/results/bcbowl03.txt

The second Ontario Bowl, which was won last year by the University of
Toronto and was hosted by McMaster University will be hosted this year by
another first time tournament host, the University of Ottawa.
Results:
2003: http://www.caql.org/results/bcbowl03mirror.html

Both tournaments will take place on Saturday, October 2, 2004.  Like last
year, I will be the tournament editor, however, this year, the tournament
will be packet submission  but do not panic just yet.  Only teams with more
than a year of quiz bowl experience are expected to write a full
pack.  Less experienced teams, depending on experience, will be expected to
write a half or a quarter pack.

The target distribution for B.C. Bowl will be 24/24 of the following:
Science 4/4 (1/1 of biology, chemistry, physics, and other)
Literature 4/4 (at least 1/1 of North American, European, and other; at
least 1/1 of fiction novels, drama, poetry)
History 4/4 (1/1 of North American, European, and other)
Geography 2/2 (representing at least three continents)
Religion-Mythology-Philosophy 2/2 (at least 1/0 or 0/1 of each category)
Social Sciences 1/1
Current Events 1/1
Fine Arts 1/1
Pop Culture 3/3 (no more than 1/1 each of sports, music, movies, or TV)
General Knowledge or Hybrid 1/1
Any of the Above 1/1 (from different categories)

1) For clubs that began competing in tournaments prior to B.C./Ontario Bowl
2003, I expect a full pack of 24/24.

2) For clubs that began competing in tournaments since B.C./Ontario Bowl
2003, I expect a half pack of 12/12 conforming to the following distribution:
Science 2/2 (at least 1/0 or 0/1 each of biology, chemistry, physics)
Literature 2/2 (at least 1/0 or 0/1 each of North American, European, and
other; at least 1/0 or 0/1 each of fiction novels, drama, poetry)
History 2/2 (at least 1/0 or 0/1 each of North American, European, and other)
Geography 1/1 (representing two continents)
Religion-Mythology-Philosophy 1/1 (from two of the three different topics)
Other Academic 1/1 (from different areas of Social Science, Fine Arts, or
Current Events)
Pop Culture 1/1 (from at least two of sports, music, movies, TV or other)
Any of the Above 2/2 (from at least 3 different categories)

3) For clubs that are making their quiz bowl debut at B.C./Ontario Bowl
2004, I expect a quarter pack of 6/6:
Science 1/1
Literature 1/1
History 1/1
Other Academic 2/2 (Geography, Religion-Myth-Philosophy, Social Science,
Fine Arts, Current Events)
Pop Culture 1/1

Submit packets to bstephen -at- direct (dot) ca in either .doc or .rtf
format.  All packs must be received by Friday, September 17, 2004.  Please
submit questions sorted by category.  Do not randomize or number your
questions.  Please list the names of all people who contributed to the pack
at the top of the first page.  Do your best to keep both tossup and bonus
questions to a reasonable length.  FREELANCE packs are welcome in exchange
for the tournament set.

If you want to play in the B.C. Bowl tournament, please contact Brock
at  bstephen -at- direct (dot) ca.  If you want to play in the Ontario Bowl
tournament, please contact Ben at uotrivia -at- yahoo (dot) ca.

Tournament information pages are available at
http://www.sfu.ca/quizbowl/bcbowl2004.html (for both venues) and at
http://ca.geocities.com/uotrivia/ONBowl04.html (for Ontario Bowl).

The tournament, both at U.B.C. and Ottawa, will be followed the same day by
a trash or pop culture singles tournament, Singles Action at Wreck
Beach/Rideau Canal Open. The tournament format is the same as last
year.  There will be a separate e-mail explaining the rules of this
tournament closer to the date.

Please contact bstephen -at- direct (dot) ca if you have any questions or
if you are interested in receiving the five packets from 2002's B.C. Bowl,
the six packets from 2003's B.C. Bowl, and the 2003 Singles Action at Wreck
Beach Open for FREE.

Brock Stephenson
Editor, B.C. Bowl and Single Action tournaments

Hey guys,

I've posted some photos from our Toronto mirror for everyone to
enjoy.  The can be found in the Photos section under "VETO 2004
(Toronto mirror)".

If anyone finds any discrepancies with respect to the photo
captions, please let me know so I can correct it.

See ya later,
Rico

OK here is the list of questions that have been suggested as "best
question" from VETO.  As you'll recall, Braintrust Games is giving a
NoFrigginClue.com prize pack to the author of the best question as
voted by players.

Everyone who played at VETO in either Toronto or Vancouver this year is
eligible to vote.  You don't have to vote for only the ones listed here:
you can write in others -- and feel free to post other suggestions to
QB-CANADA.

As an experiment, I'm going to use the Single Transferable Vote system
that was explained in some VETO packet (I can't remember whose).  This
means that you RANK your favourite questions -- as many as you want,
and of course the same question may not appear more than once on your
list.  I'll start by counting first choices, and add votes for second
and third choices, etc., until the number of votes for some question
adds up to a majority of the ballots cast, at which point that
question will be the winner.  If I reach the end and there isn't a
single question that appeared on the majority of ballots, then I'll
take whichever one appeared on the greatest number of ballots.  As the
Returning Officer, I'll vote only in case of a tie.

Send your votes to pmcc@... (pmcc at alumni.sfu.ca) by
Thursday, August 5, at 8:59 p.m. PDT / 11:59 p.m. EDT.  If you change
your mind before this deadline, you may change your vote: only your
latest vote will be counted.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
DUTCH:  Andy nominated this tossup from the Ottawa packet.

[moderator: phrases in the foreign language are in <b>boldface</b>;
just plow through it...]  <b>Als u begrijpt wat ik zeg, het antwoord
op deze vraag is deze taal.  Ik zal nu blijven lezend voor een tijdje
om de paragraaf op te vullen.  Ik zal ophouden gebruikend deze taal en
zal in het Engels binnenkort spreken.  Voor tien punten</b>, I spent
the last few sentences speaking in what language?
Answer:  Dutch or Nederlands
(accept "Flemish"; prompt on "Afrikaans"; do NOT accept "German"!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
HART HOUSE:  Ben nominated (I think) this tossup from the version of the
FARSIDE packet that was played in Toronto.

Construction began in 1911. During the First World War, officers
attended classes on military strategy, the Great Hall became a drill
square, and the basement contained a shooting range, which is now the
Theatre. It was formally opened in 1919 by Vincent Massey, and was
named after his late grandfather whose estate supplied the funds for
it. For 10 points, what University of Toronto building are we in right
now?
Answer:  Hart House
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ARTHUR CURRIE: Mischa nominated a question about Arthur Currie from
the NTC/Athenian TRASHedies packet.  I don't have the question here.
Daniel?  Andy?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
INDIE ROCK:  Hanson said he liked this bonus by the UWO alumni.

A bonus on something that would never be in an American tournament:
Canadian indie rock!  Identify the contemporary indie artist from
clues FTPE:

Led by Kevin Drew and Brendan Canning, and frequently numbering more
than 10 members, this Toronto-based musical collective released <i>You
Forgot it in People</i> in 2002 and is the best live act in Canada.
Answer: BROKEN SOCIAL SCENE

Essentially the project of one man, Joel Gibb, this Toronto-based
"band" is notable for their explicit lyrics about sex and
homosexuality despite having somewhat of a gospel sound.  2003’s <i>The
Smell of Our Own</i> met with much critical acclaim, and their upcoming
album has the amazing title of <i>Mississauga Goddam</i>.
Answer: The HIDDEN CAMERAS

Named after an obscure Japanese documentary about a biker gang, this
band is based in Montreal and is one of the most prominent groups in
what is often called the "post-rock" movement.  Their most
recent album, <i>Yanqui U.X.O.</i>, includes a diagram showing the links
between the four major record companies and the military-industrial
complex.
Answer: GODSPEED YOU BLACK EMPEROR!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BRUCE LABRUCE:  Hanson also said he liked this tossup from B2B.

Along with Brock Norman Brock, he wrote 2000’s <i>Come as You Are</i>, which
has nothing to do with the band Nirvana.  A contributor to <i>exclaim!</i>
and <i>eye</i> magazines, he was born Justin Stewart in Ontario.  He played
himself in 1996’s The Blue Hermaphrodite and was The Hairdresser in
1991’s <i>No Skin Off My Ass</i>.  Scott Thompson of Kids in the Hall
appeared in his homage to Fellini and fellatio, Super 8-1/2 [Super
Eight and a Half].  FTP, name this homosexual pornographer with a gay
name that would make Monty Python proud.
Answer:  Bruce LaBruce (accept Brian Bruce)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MATADOR:  Hanson (again) didn't hear this tossup by Zhan's team, but
said it would have been his favourite question.

Liz Phair. A.C. Newman. Seachange. Mogwai. Mission of Burma. The Jon
Spencer Blues Explosion. Teenage Fanclub. Interpol. Pavement. Yo-la
Tengo. All these artists either are or were distributed by, for ten
points, what independent record label? It’s named after the guy whose
job it is to finish off the bull.

Answer: Matador Records
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LADY BRACKNELL:  Zhan nominated this tossup from the second B2B packet.

Reacting to the news that her daughter's suitor smokes, she says,
"I am glad to hear it.  A man should always have an occupation of some
kind." On hearing about his parents, she says, "To lose a parent,
Mr. Worthing, may be regarded as misfortune; to lose both looks like
carelessness." FTP, name sly Gwendolen's mother, the woman who
interviews Jack Worthing in The Importance of Being Earnest.
Answer:  Lady Bracknell
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SHEET MUSIC:  I'm nominating this visual bonus from the Ottawa packet.

[moderator:  remove the final page containing sheet music]
[moderator:  allow more time for answering these question: 10 to 15 seconds]
Congratulations!  You won a sensory bonus.  Use sight to identify these
melodies from classical music, using only an excerpt of sheet music, for
ten points each:
Answers:  A:  "Für Elise", or Bagatelle in A Minor
           B:  "Wedding March" (accept Midsummer Night's Dream)
           C:  "Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy" (accept Nutcracker Suite)