On 9/29/05 4:56 AM, "karianna03" <karianna@...> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm assuming you're mainly looking @ the new data requests area

No I was going to look at all of them. One of the things I want to go over
tonight is a data tracker review, I thought we could pre-emptivley do that
before you got to it... but I see I'm no match for your speed ;p

> (we
> have 18 of those).  But I've got another priority for you gentlemen
> <grin>.
>
> We have a total of:
>
> 52 Data Bugs
> 49 Data Freqs
> 34 Tag Additions (which should not require code work according to the
> definition of the tracker)
> 3 LST File fixes
> 3 Tag creation/Modification
>
> We especially want to close down pcgendm trackers.  I'm happy to go
> through all of the above with you guys (I suspect many should be moved
> to code for example).

There are a number of data trackers which cannot be done without code
support, those just need to have code FREQs created for them but not moved
(else how do we know what to implement data wise when they are done)

The Tag creation/Modification should be moved to Code FREQs if they are
still valid

The Tag Additions contain trackers for the addition of the FACE tag and the
PANTHEON tag to those sources which lack them because (I guess) they were
made before the tag existed. Those should be easy enough provided we have
access to the source book. Between me and Tir we've probably got quite a
few, we'll have to see what's left after that and put a call out.

> Karianna
> <General Thorn in Side and Pain in the Proverbial>

Ouch!
--
~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
~ PCGen Content Silverback

Hey all,

>No I was going to look at all of them. One of the things I want to go
>over tonight is a data tracker review, I thought we could
>pre-emptivley do that before you got to it... but I see I'm no match
>for your speed ;p

Just trying to do as much as possible before RL kicks me :-).  David
has volunteered to be the Data TM, so that ought to help you guys heaps!

> There are a number of data trackers which cannot be done without
> code support, those just need to have code FREQs created for them
> but not moved> (else how do we know what to implement data wise when
> they are done)

This is true, we need to identify those and shift those across to the
pcgen project Data Freqs tracker, at least then we can comment
"Waiting on FREQ X to be coded"

> The Tag creation/Modification should be moved to Code FREQs if they
> are still valid

Fair enough

> The Tag Additions contain trackers for the addition of the FACE tag
> and the PANTHEON tag to those sources which lack them because (I
> guess) they were made before the tag existed. Those should be easy
> enough provided we have access to the source book. Between me and
> Tir we've probably got quite a few, we'll have to see what's left
> after that and put a call out.

Cool, it did rather look like an easy task for some LST Lemur or two
:-).  Heck I'll do it myself if I can get a PDF of the sources involved.

Wicked, that's get PCGenDM trackers into shape real fast, we can move
the rest over to pcgen itself once we've cut down the numbers.  Only
PCGen Docs to go after that :-).

Karianna

Just to clarify, I'll be in the pcgen irc tonight for a semi-formal data
team meeting (around 9pm EST). The agenda: short term priorities for the
5.10 feature scope.

Devon has put forth a 2-3 month time frame for 5.10 so there is a need to
set goals for that.

Everyone is welcome to attend, since we can only ask for volunteers it would
be great if we had people there to step up and take on some tasks.

To get things rolling here's some items I think we need to get done this
cycle:

Complete the Core datasets. This means Epic, Divine and Future. Epic and
Divine are close, Future needs some work, I'd like to take on Robots but
Equipment needs to be done as well.

Tracker review. Already underway :-)

Core dataset cleanup, running prettylst on the SRD and RSRD reveals a number
of issues. We need to tackle this list, either identify and fix the issue or
if it not an issue open a prettylst tracker to update prettylst on it.

Renaming issues. We have been somewhat paralyzed in that there are a number
of items such as the Willpower check and various class names which need to
be renamed to their correct published forms but we can't do this without
breaking characters and/or homebrew datasets.

When we were having this discussion someone suggested (Andrew I think) of
reworking the LST converter so that it could be data driven, what I imagine
this to mean is that we would have a system level text file in which we
could enter simple Name, VAR and KEY changes which the LST converter would
just load and run, this way the data team could enter those changes as they
are made and not need to pass it to the code team. It would probably be good
to make this gameMode specific, maybe have a conversions.lst file with those
changes.

Can I get some feed back from a coder on the feasibility of this?
--
~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
~ PCGen Content Silverback

--- Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...> wrote:

> Everyone is welcome to attend, since we can only ask
> for volunteers it would
> be great if we had people there to step up and take
> on some tasks.

I don't know if I will be able to get there.  Where is
the IRC channel exactly anyway?
If I am not there feel free to volunteer me for
anything that you need.

>
> Renaming issues. We have been somewhat paralyzed in
> that there are a number
> of items such as the Willpower check and various
> class names which need to
> be renamed to their correct published forms but we
> can't do this without
> breaking characters and/or homebrew datasets.
>
> When we were having this discussion someone
> suggested (Andrew I think) of
> reworking the LST converter so that it could be data
> driven, what I imagine
> this to mean is that we would have a system level
> text file in which we
> could enter simple Name, VAR and KEY changes which
> the LST converter would
> just load and run, this way the data team could
> enter those changes as they
> are made and not need to pass it to the code team.
> It would probably be good
> to make this gameMode specific, maybe have a
> conversions.lst file with those
> changes.
>
> Can I get some feed back from a coder on the
> feasibility of this?

I don't know how the LST converter works but the basic
task is extremely simple so it shouldn't be too much
work to stick it into whatever framework we need it
in.

-Aaron

----------------
Aaron Divinsky
PCGen Data Tamarin, Doc Lemur



__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of boomer70
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:21 PM
> To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [pcgen] Data team meeting
>
>
>
>
> --- Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...> wrote:
>
> > Everyone is welcome to attend, since we can only ask
> > for volunteers it would
> > be great if we had people there to step up and take
> > on some tasks.
>
> I don't know if I will be able to get there.  Where is
> the IRC channel exactly anyway?

It's on Dalnet. The channel is #pcgen. (That's where the BOD meetings take
place)

> If I am not there feel free to volunteer me for
> anything that you need.
>

I'd be careful to make statements like that. Paul K. might want to have his
toilet cleaned. ;-)

Cheerio,

Frank Kliewe
PCGen Data Gibbon & OS Lemur

--
No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't have
enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old
friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an
earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.
(Joliet Jake Blues, The Blues Brothers)

When my Monk reach the level 11 the greater flurry is not handle by PCGEN.

Any idea ?

<kingpaul> ook
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> ook. Hi, Paul
<kingpaul> howdy-ho
<kingpaul> how goes it?
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> okay so far, how's family life?
<kingpaul> pretty good.
<kingpaul> the cold's running around the house
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> will you be logging the session today?
<kingpaul> i'll try
<[Content_SB]mosat> dang, you too? why is that happens right when the
weather changes?
<[Content_SB]mosat> hi guys
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> hi Eddy
<kingpaul> because our body's don't want it to be not summer? :)
<[Content_SB]mosat> I've got a couple of trackers for you to look at Frank
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> what is it?
<[Content_SB]mosat> [ 1170710 ] [MSRD] Weapon prof choice by creature type
<[Content_SB]mosat>
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1170710&group_id=3
6698&atid=417819
<[Content_SB]mosat> in modern some creature type get to choose either
Archaic weapons or simple
<[Content_SB]mosat> I had come up with a solution but the KIT set up will
make it not work
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yeah I'm waiting for the tracker to display
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> that darn satelite can be slow sometimes
<[Content_SB]mosat> I was just wondering how important you think this is to
modern playters
<[Content_SB]mosat> er, modern  players
<kingpaul> why does KIT break a choice?
<[Content_SB]mosat> it doesn't
<[Content_SB]mosat> here's the thing
<[Content_SB]mosat> it appear that default monsters always choose the simple
prof
<[Content_SB]mosat> if the CHOOSE is implemented from the type template or
race then the choice happens during race selection
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> it would be nice to have, but I wouldn't consider it for
5.8.1.
<[Content_SB]mosat> since the kit is applied after that it has no say in the
matter
<kingpaul> i think i get it
<[Content_SB]mosat> It's easy enough to do, I've already got it done really
<[Content_SB]mosat> as long as a chooser window at race selection dosn't
bother anyone
<[Content_SB]mosat> but yeah, I'm not going to try this for 5.8.1
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> sorry, had to let the cat in
<[Content_SB]mosat> hmm and I just thought of a way around the kit problem
<[Content_SB]mosat> we have a REMOVE:FEAT tag now right? we can just remove
the Archaic prof feat if it has been chosen
<[Content_SB]mosat> problem solved
<[Content_SB]mosat> OK I've got 9, I suppose we should start talking about
data priorities
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> So it's just the 3 of us?
<[Content_SB]mosat> who's in the house, I see lights on but it looks like
nobady but us three are home
<kingpaul> toilet cleaning? :D
<[Content_SB]mosat> lets see you take that joke to showtime at the Apollo
and get out alive ;-)
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> I just looked at windows messenger, but Tir is offline
<kingpaul> ummm...no thanks :P
* Papa-DRB has joined #pcgen
<[Content_SB]mosat> he never did respond to say he could make it
<[Content_SB]mosat> OK that makes four of us :D
<[Content_SB]mosat> Papa-DRB, its David right?
<Papa-DRB> right
<[Content_SB]mosat> and Kar roped you in to do data trackers
<[Content_SB]mosat> ?
<Papa-DRB> Yup
<[Content_SB]mosat> cool, what you think about the priority values (or maybe
I should ask if you saw that post first)?
<Papa-DRB> what post?
<[Content_SB]mosat> let me find it
<Papa-DRB> Wait.. Is it the one from you detailing what Px is for?
<[Content_SB]mosat> yes
<[Content_SB]mosat>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/message/3683
<Papa-DRB> got it... lots of mail
<Papa-DRB> I just got back in from helping my son with his computer
<[Content_SB]mosat> yeah, I got 200+ today
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> should those be used for OS as well?
<[Content_SB]mosat> basically this is just for data, the other projects have
diferent needs
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> k
<[Content_SB]mosat> Although OS has a similar problem of sometimes needing
code support
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> that's why I thought they might be used there as well
<[Content_SB]mosat> yeah, we could use the same system for docs if Chucks OK
with that
<[Content_SB]mosat> sorry I meant OS
<[Content_SB]mosat> Docs will have a differnt criteria
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> I thought so
<[Content_SB]mosat> which I need to come up with before Kar beats me to it
:-)
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> hehe
<[Content_SB]mosat> yeah, that is what I call motivation
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> that's true
<[Content_SB]mosat> rushing to get something done to avaid 100+ tracker
emails
<[Content_SB]mosat> he's good at that
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> you better believe that
<[Content_SB]mosat> well I've already started going through our data
trackers and sorting them
<[Content_SB]mosat> I think that will not be the bear of a project it is in
code FREQs
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> back to the priorities: they looked ok for me.
<[Content_SB]mosat> those were really piling up as that was the place they
got dumped
<[Content_SB]mosat> cool
<[Content_SB]mosat> no objections? thats what we'll use :-)
<kingpaul> they looked alright to me
<AlphaSEQ> almost looks like a BoD meeting night, heheh
<[Content_SB]mosat> but you're allowed to talk :D
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> just more SOBs than SBs
<[Content_SB]mosat> LOL
<[Content_SB]mosat> OK I'm just going to run threw my list quick
<[Content_SB]mosat> datasets
<[Content_SB]mosat> we need to complete the core sets
<[Content_SB]mosat> Epic, Divine and whats left for Future
<[Content_SB]mosat> this should not be difficult, Epic and Divine are about
ready to go in
<[Content_SB]mosat> we need Robots Equipment and Vehicles for future
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Yeah, I always wanted to ask about Future, but I was
under the impression that you and Paul enjoyed working on these, and I
didn't want to interfere
<[Content_SB]mosat> I do, just haven't had the time (same old excus)
<[Content_SB]mosat> If it's a baton you can pick up I don't think either of
us would object
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> If you point me in the right direction, I'll see what I
can do there.
<[Content_SB]mosat> will do
<[Content_SB]mosat> the next thing on my list was core dataset clean up
<kingpaul> i've been kinda swamped, which is why i haven't touched Future
<[Content_SB]mosat> I had the idea that we should run the error list in
prettylst and just deal with everything it found
<[Content_SB]mosat> some things it finds are just gaps in prettylst and
those need to be dealt with by opening prettylst trackers
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> that's probably a sound plan
<[Content_SB]mosat> the MSRD is pretty clean last I checked
<[Content_SB]mosat> I banged on that pretty heavy last year
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> there are only a few ones
<[Content_SB]mosat> I think the errors reported can all be atributed to
prettylst gaps
<[Content_SB]mosat> the SRD however...
<[Content_SB]mosat> is a fright
<[Content_SB]mosat> the RSRD has issues too
<[Content_SB]mosat> Anyway thats my project, if in the process I find
specific issues I can pass off I'll make trackers
<[Content_SB]mosat> The last thing I brought up was all the renaming issues
<[Content_SB]mosat> Battlemind, Willpower and the like
<[Content_SB]mosat> it nags at me that I can't just go fix it :)
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Is this just about the official names, or does this
include the "-" in names issue too?
<[Content_SB]mosat> that going to be part of it
<[Content_SB]mosat> that issue is releated to data standards
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> would outputname or Legacy items do?
<[Content_SB]mosat> Legacy items?
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> I mean keeping a the old line in
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> probably not that useful in races
<[Content_SB]mosat> well, let me say what I would like to see happen
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> k
<[Content_SB]mosat> first off, we came up with standards for nameing
<[Content_SB]mosat> this would be alist of characters that should be
available to use in object names
<[Content_SB]mosat> it includes the dash symbol
<[Content_SB]mosat> I would like to be able to use the names as published as
much as possible
<[Content_SB]mosat> and avoid OUTPUTNAME work arounds
* Papa-DRB has quit IRC (Quit: )
<[Content_SB]mosat> sorry, trying to look up that list
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> no prob.
<kingpaul> is OUTPUTNAME that much of a hassle?
<[Content_SB]mosat> found it, this is long
<[Content_SB]mosat> Characters approved for use in object names are: upper
and lower case letters, numbers, single spaces in between multiple words
(never before or after) and the following glyphs: underscore (_), dash (-),
apostrophe ('), parentheses (), and a slash (/).
<[Content_SB]mosat> thats about three lines in my window ya'll see it?
<kingpaul> yep
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yep
<[Content_SB]mosat> now here's the thing
<kingpaul> but don't parens cause problems elsewhere?
<kingpaul> and dashes for that matter?
<[Content_SB]mosat> that's the issue
<[Content_SB]mosat> if this standard is adopted we need the code team to be
on board
<[Content_SB]mosat> because when issues relating to name characters come up
they need to be P9 squashed asap
<[Content_SB]mosat> or we might as well not adopt that standard for the
trouble it will cause
<[Content_SB]mosat> At this point I don't know of any issues that are not
being looked at
<[Content_SB]mosat> so I'm not concernd so much
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> is there a legal point in this? Are qe required to use
the correct names?
<[Content_SB]mosat> no, it's an asthetic thing in my mind
<[Content_SB]mosat> and a compatibility thing
<[Content_SB]mosat> the Blind-Fighting feat has different name s in the SRD
and RSRD
<[Content_SB]mosat> which is a PITA if we want to make 3.0 to 3.5 conversion
sets
<[Content_SB]mosat> (which I do)
<[Content_SB]mosat> we need to get everything in line
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> That makes sense
<[Content_SB]mosat> that bring me back to changing the names
<[Content_SB]mosat> in order not to break folks home brew sets we need to
have the LST converter reactivated
<[Content_SB]mosat> someone had the great idea to have it be data driven
<[Content_SB]mosat> I'm suggesting a conversions.lst file in the gameMode
which will have the list of name conversions
<[Content_SB]mosat> as we change the names we put them in there
<[Content_SB]mosat> when the user get a new version he can run the converter
on his home brew sets and ta da it's done
<[Content_SB]mosat> with the name changes in a data file we don't have to
pester the CM's everytime we find a typo :-)
<[Content_SB]mosat> maybe we bother them if we run across an object we need
changed that the converter doesn't support yet
<kingpaul> wouldn't that require that home-brew stuff be kept in a
*specific* directory so that PCGen can find it?
<[Content_SB]mosat> no, have you used the LST conveter?
<[Content_SB]mosat> it's been a looooong time since it did anything usefull
<[Content_SB]mosat> but when you choose it you point it at a directory
<kingpaul> oh. i've never used them to be honest
<[Content_SB]mosat> so they can have their sets where ever they want
* BarakO has joined #pcgen
<[Content_SB]mosat> well, anyway that a plan of attack, we'll see if the
CM's can get to it
<[Content_SB]mosat> OK thats all I have were done...Oh hey Barak! you missed
the whole thing
<[Content_SB]mosat> kidding
<BarakO> 6L10aughing 6O10ut 6L10oud
<BarakO> I only stopped in to see if I could still get here.  :p
<[Content_SB]mosat> just like riding a bicycle only you'er typeing
and..well..OK its not like a bicycle
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Hi, Barak
<kingpaul> hungry 6-mo-old...gotta go
<[Content_SB]mosat> Well I assume Tir had some idea's about prioritization
but well he's not here so we can't hear them
<[Content_SB]mosat> by Paul
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> bye, Paul
<[Content_SB]mosat> anyone else got a topic to discuss
<[Content_SB]mosat> ?
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> When I was bugsquashing with Tir the question came up,
whether we might find an autobuild of 5.8.1 somewhere.
<BarakO> Not having been here for the rest of the meeting, I'll keep my
mouth shut (not that I really have anything to say... )
<[Content_SB]mosat> don't think it exists
<[Content_SB]mosat> you might ask Eric or another CM to throw you a build
<[Content_SB]mosat> I imagine they don't change much
<[Content_SB]mosat> I havn't seen many commits for it
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> It would just be soothing for the nerves to test stuff
with something closer to the "real thing"
<[Content_SB]mosat> agreed
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Another thing, do you intend to do regular Data team
meetings, let's say once a month or so?
<[Content_SB]mosat> it's probably a good idea
<[Content_SB]mosat> really I need to be online a little more
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> it was probably too short note for most, today
<[Content_SB]mosat> we can do another one in a week to make up for it
<BarakO> I'd like that, if only to have stuff pointed out to me that i miss
on the forums.
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> I'd be there :-)
<[Content_SB]mosat> cool, did you get that thing I sent you?
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> need to check my mail
<[Content_SB]mosat> that was for Barak, sorry, should be specific :)
<[Content_SB]mosat> cool, Andrew just fixed the unarmed damage dice issue
<[Content_SB]mosat> one less problem with NATURALATTACKS
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Did you send a reply to Kar about the Exotic Melee Weapon
Proficiency I forwarded to you, Eddy?
<[Content_SB]mosat> no I didn't reply to Kar
<[Content_SB]mosat> I can if you want
<[Content_SB]mosat> I sounded like he was not done poking at it :-)
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Yeah.
<[Content_SB]mosat> I wanted to see if a code fix was forthcomming
<[Content_SB]mosat> I didn't like the idea of the name change to fix it but
I'll do it if it works and there's nothing else
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> I'll send a reply, I just didn't want to contradict
anything you might have said.
<[Content_SB]mosat> go for it
<[Content_SB]mosat> and feel free to contridict me if I need it :-)
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> hehe
<[Content_SB]mosat> Well I'm ging to call this meeting officially done
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> something else: we were discussing the Mastercraft Eqmod
once, and were sidetracked by the specs issue.
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Where are we standing there?
<[Content_SB]mosat> Oh wait, that is a good topic
<[Content_SB]mosat> did I send you a copy of that?
<[Content_SB]mosat> I did
<[Content_SB]mosat> now I remember
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yup
<[Content_SB]mosat> we need multiple versions
<[Content_SB]mosat> one to support bonuses to hit and the other for damage
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> right, that was the issue
<[Content_SB]mosat> well we definitely want to go there for 5.10
<[Content_SB]mosat> but I think this would break PC's and would be messy to
back port
<[Content_SB]mosat> plus that's more testing for Tir and you
<[Content_SB]mosat> so lets not bother
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> so 5.10, then.
<[Content_SB]mosat> Greg has a fix for the replicating EQMOD pricing
* BarakO has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> that's good.
<[Content_SB]mosat> I've been poking Devon to port it to 5.8.1
<[Content_SB]mosat> that's not been done
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yet, or will not be done?
<[Content_SB]mosat> if it is at least then Masterwork will work even if it
is incorrect to the source
<[Content_SB]mosat> yet
<[Content_SB]mosat> that's why I poke devon :-)
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> poke away :-)
<[Content_SB]mosat> yeah, I'll look at my files and send what I got for
Mastercraft
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> One last thing:
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> I'm still thinking about that Allegiances thing
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> What can Abilities already do at this time?
<[Content_SB]mosat> I have not asked
<kingpaul> ok, i'm back
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> It's just personal interest
<[Content_SB]mosat> I feel it's kind of like bothering the mechanic when
your car is strewn about the garage :)
<[Content_SB]mosat> its a good question
<[Content_SB]mosat> we really do need to start playing with it
<[Content_SB]mosat> and that something I didn't talk about yet
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> What I would need is going from a different Pool than the
feat pool, REMOVE:FEAT for abilities and OS tags for abilities
<[Content_SB]mosat> Once they get that done it's a pretty big job to convert
all those SA';s into abilitied
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Could that be done with a script?
<[Content_SB]mosat> don't we have a REMOVE:FEAT tag now?
<[Content_SB]mosat> not that
<kingpaul> why can't SAs be done as abilities?
<[Content_SB]mosat> huh Paul?
<[Content_SB]mosat> we can't script the change over
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> Would REMOVE:FEAT work with a non Feat ability?
<kingpaul> that's what i meant...why can't a script be done?
<[Content_SB]mosat> they should be creating a corasponding REMOVE:ABILITY
tag
<[Content_SB]mosat> it can't be scripted because all the info which will go
into the ability is not there in the SA tag
<[Content_SB]mosat> kind of like the problem with converting SPELL to SPELLS
but on a much more massive scale
<kingpaul> so you can't do like you did with the SPELL/SPELLS conversion?
build the basic ABILITY, but then go back through and fine-tune?
<kingpaul> wow, same time
<[Content_SB]mosat> an SA tag will give you a discription and list some
numirical bonuses but if there is an acutal BONUS tag it does not
nessisarily be in the same object as the SA
<[Content_SB]mosat> it takes a human to read the text and fins all the parts
<kingpaul> oh? i didn't realize that the variable incrementation would be
embedded in the ABILITY object as well
<[Content_SB]mosat> the page number, isn't in the data now
<[Content_SB]mosat> sure everything which is part of the ability
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yes, but we are lazy monkeys. Every bit would help.
<kingpaul> lol Frank
<[Content_SB]mosat> I just think it would be more work to grind through half
done script output than to build it clean from scratch
<[Content_SB]mosat> some of it is already done
<kingpaul> what about abilities that increment at different rates? take Rage
or Sneak Attack for instance
<[Content_SB]mosat> many special abilities are already coded as hidden feats
<[Content_SB]mosat> they will just need a little tweeking and they are done
<[Content_SB]mosat> Rage or Sneak Attack work now don't they?
<kingpaul> how do you increment those if the incrmentation is to be embedded
in ABILITY?
<kingpaul> yes they do, but you said above the incrmentation would be
embedded in the ABILITY
<[Content_SB]mosat> the incrementation formula in NOT in the ability
<[Content_SB]mosat> chek out Wildshape as an example
<kingpaul> now i'm confused, because you said that "BONUS tag it does not
nessisarily be in the same object as the SA"
<[Content_SB]mosat> all the progressions are in the ability but the
progression itself is set in the class
<kingpaul> this led me to believe that you were embedding the formula in the
ability
<[Content_SB]mosat> OK, let me slow down
<[Content_SB]mosat> in what we have now an SA tag which is the name and
description of a special ability and a BONUS which might be used to
implement an aspect of that ability do not currently or nessisarily reside
within the same object
<[Content_SB]mosat> follow that?
<[Content_SB]mosat> Now the ABILITY object we are moving to works like this:
<kingpaul> right...i've seen the SA in either a hidden feat and the BONUS in
the CLASS; or both in the CLASS
<[Content_SB]mosat> the name of the Ability and the DESC tag will do the
work of what the SA tag does now
<[Content_SB]mosat> the ability will also hold any BONUS tags and DEFINEs
related to the ability
<kingpaul> so the formula for variable incrmentation will be in the ability
object?
<[Content_SB]mosat> the DESC tag is being modified so you can use multiple
DESC tags in an ability line and you can do % var substitution and PRE
qualifying
<[Content_SB]mosat> no the DEFINE for those vars will be in the ABILITY line
<kingpaul> then what is the purpose of the BONUS in the ability if you're
not incrementing items?
<[Content_SB]mosat> the formula or any other bonus to those vars will come
form those objects which use them
<kingpaul> *smacks  head* you're talking the discrete increments aren't you?
<[Content_SB]mosat> yeah, I'm not following you
<kingpaul> BONUS:SKILL|Diplomacy|2|TYPE=Insight and the like
<[Content_SB]mosat> depends on the ability
<[Content_SB]mosat> if its just one straign number than there it is
<[Content_SB]mosat> if the ABILITY is being set up for use by multiple
classes/ races
<[Content_SB]mosat>  then this
<[Content_SB]mosat> DEFINE:Stuff|0
<[Content_SB]mosat> BONUS:SKILL|Diplomacy|Stuff|TYPE=Insight
<[Content_SB]mosat> that the cclass adding it will BONUS:VAR|Stuff|2
<[Content_SB]mosat> make sense?
<kingpaul> yes
<[Content_SB]mosat> :-)
<kingpaul> sorry it took so long for me to wrap my head around that
<[Content_SB]mosat> is alright
<[Content_SB]mosat> I think you will like it once it's in place
<kingpaul> maybe i missed it, but is there an ETA on when ABILITY will be
done?
<[Content_SB]mosat> 5.10
<[Content_SB]mosat> :-)
<kingpaul> cool
<[Content_SB]mosat> Andrew said it was about half done
<kingpaul> must've missed that
<kingpaul> so, anything else oh Great and Fearless Data Monkey Leader-type
Person-thingy? :D
<[Content_SB]mosat> nope, I'm going to call it a night
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> to sum it up, the most pressing targets right now are
completing the core sets and the core set cleanup?
<[Content_SB]mosat> nice chat though
<kingpaul> so you want this log posted to the group?
<[Content_SB]mosat> sure why not
<kingpaul> k
<[Content_SB]mosat> night
<[DM]Frank_Kliewe> good night
* [Content_SB]mosat has left #pcgen
* [DM]Frank_Kliewe has quit IRC (Quit: )
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eddy Anthony scribed:

> Just to clarify, I'll be in the pcgen irc tonight for a semi-formal data
> team meeting (around 9pm EST).

OK that was short notice so let's do this again next week, Thursday unless
anyone wants a different day to fit it into their schedule.

By then we should have been through the trackers and we can talk about the
tricky ones.

After that maybe a once a month thing?
--
~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
~ PCGen Content Silverback

All of this industry is going to make me burst with pride soon, gives
me one less team to chase though, a nice problem to have :-)

Karianna
<Off to form more teams to keep herself in a job>

--- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...> wrote:
> Eddy Anthony scribed:
>
> > Just to clarify, I'll be in the pcgen irc tonight for a
semi-formal data
> > team meeting (around 9pm EST).
>
> OK that was short notice so let's do this again next week, Thursday
unless
> anyone wants a different day to fit it into their schedule.
>
> By then we should have been through the trackers and we can talk
about the
> tricky ones.
>
> After that maybe a once a month thing?
> --
> ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
> ~ PCGen Content Silverback

After getting a copy of the Mac OS X build process, I went through and
cleaned it up some and sent a copy to Conor. It doesn't look like he's
been around, so I'll post it to the list (and upload a copy):

NOTE: I don't know if any PCGen code improvements have been made to
get it to run under OS X 10.4 from the time I wrote this. If so, let
me know and I'll update this.

-----

PART 1: Get everything you need
A) Run Software Update to make sure that you have the latest fixes and
updates.
B) If they are not already installed, you will need the OS X Developer
tools.  If they didn't come with your computer or OS X boxed set, then
you can set up a free Apple Developer Connection account
(http://www.apple.com/developer) and download them from there.  Make
sure you get XCode 1.5 or greater; as of this writing, an XCode 2.1
preview is available -- however, it only runs on OS X 10.4 or greater.
C) You will need the "archive" folder that is included in any recent
version of the Mac OS X distribution of PCGen. A copy is  available at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen/files/Misc/Applications/
D) Download the full version of PCGen from SourceForge. Get the latest
non-OS specific version; the Mac OS X distributions are distributed as
a mac installer, and are already packaged as a Mac OS application.
E) If you are using OS X 10.4 or later, you must download and install
the Java 2 SE 5.0 Release 1 from the ADC site; PGCen will not
currently run on OS X 10.4 under Java 1.4.2.

Now that we have all the parts and pieces, we can start to assemble.
If you need me to go back and clarify anything let me know.

PART 2: Converting PCGen to be an OS X application bundle
A) Launch /Developer/Applications/Java Tools/Jar Bundler
B) On the "Build Information" tab, click the Choose button to the
right of the Main Class field.  Navigate to the pcgen.jar file in the
PCGen distribution folder.
C) Make sure the "Use Macintosh Menu Bar", "Anti-Alias Text",
"Anti-alias Graphics", and "Growbox Intrudes" checkboxes are all checked.
D) Make sure the JVM version is "1.4+". If you're running OS X 10.4,
you MUST hand-edit this to be "1.5*" -- note that this creates a build
that will ONLY run under 10.4 or later, and ONLY if Java 5 is installed.
E) Under the Custom Icon preview, click Choose Icon, navigate to "new
icon.icns" in the archive folder.
F) Switch to the "Classpath and Files" tab. Under "Additional Files
and Resources", click the Add button and navigate to the lib directory
in the PCGen distribution folder. Add all of the .jar files that
reside in the lib directory; Jar Builder will create the appropriate
classpath entries under "Additions to Classpath".
G) Switch to the Properties tab.  In the Type field, verify that it is
AAPL. In the Signature Field, enter "PCGn" (without the quotes).
H) In the Identifier field, enter "com.codemonkey.pcgen" (without quotes)
I) Enter relevant information into the Version, Get-Info String, and
Short Version fields.
J) In the Bundle Name field, enter "PCGen" (without quotes)
K) In the VM Options field, enter "-Xms128m -Xmx256m" (without
quotes). This causes PCGen to reserve a minimum of 128MB of RAM and a
maximum of 256MB for its operation, which can be useful if you're
developing datasets or running with a large number of datasets loaded.
NOTE: You may want to experiment to find settings that work for you if
you don't have a large amount of memory available; "-Xms" sets the
initial size of the memory allocation pool (default is 2 MB), and
"-Xmx" sets the maximum size of the allocation pool (default is 64 MB).
L) Switch back to the Build Information tab -- if you don't do this,
Jar Bundler doesn't paste the icon for the app correctly, I don't know
why -- and click the Create Application button.  Save the application
as PCGen.app into the PCGen distribution folder.

This will encapsulate the PCGen jar file into an OS X application.
After that, we can clean up the PCGen distribution folder, removing
all those ugly Windows & Unix/Linux files :-P

PART 3: Cleaning up the PCGen folder
A) Delete pcgen_high_mem.bat, pcgen.bat, and pcgen.sh files. They are
now unnecessary.
B) Delete the lib directory and pcgen.jar, as they are included in the
application bundle. (You might want to copy the license files from the
lib directory into the Contents/Resources/Java directory.)
C) Copy the text from release notes into ReadMe.rtf in the
English.proj subfolder in the archive folder.  Once the content is in
the .rtf file, you can delete the HTML release notes.
D) Rename the folder for PCGen into "PCGen x.x.xx" (without quotes),
with the current version number.

We now have a pristine folder for PCGen; at this point you can run the
application by clicking on the PCGen icon. You might want to move your
PCGen folder into your Applications folder, but note that if you move
PCGen after running it for the first time, it may lose many of your
settings. (You can hand-edit the options.ini and filepaths.ini files
in the PCGen directory to point to the new location, but it's easier
to put PCGen where you want to keep it and then run PCGen for the
first time.)

If you want to save this distribution to be reinstalled, or installed
on multiple computers, you should create an OS X Installer package for
it. You will want to do this BEFORE you run PCGen for the first time,
so your custom .ini files don't get included by mistake.

PART 4: Creating an Installer package
A) Move the archive folder from a previous OS X PCGen distribution
into your PCGen distribution folder.
B) If you've already run PCGen, delete the filter.ini, options.ini and
filepaths.ini files.
C) Close the Finder window for the PCGen folder and empty your Trash.
D) If you have one, use a utility that deletes resource forks. (Do a
Google search for "Remove MacOS Junk" for a small freeware utility
that does this.)
E) Launch Terminal, and enter the following commands.  Where you see
the text "<drag PCGen folder>", do just that -- drag the PCGen
distribution folder into the terminal window and the path to it will
be entered for you.
	 find <drag PCGen folder> -name .DS_Store -delete
	 find <drag PCGen folder> -name .Trashes -delete (when the first
command finishes executing)
These terminal commands will delete certain system files that the
Finder puts in the folder -- .DS_Store holds information on the
current folder view, custom icon for the folder, etc. while .Trashes
tells the Finder what files in that folder are to be deleted when the
Trash is emptied. Once you execute these two terminal commands, DO NOT
reopen your PCGen folder in the Finder or those files will be
recreated, and you'll have to repeat this step.
F) Create a new folder in Finder, and put the PCGen distribution
folder in it. You don't need to rename the folder or anything; all
that matters is that it is new and contains nothing but the PCGen
distribution folder.
G) Launch /Developer/Applications/Utilities/PackageMaker
H) On the Description tab, fill in relevant information for the Title,
Version, and Description fields (I usually just grab the PCGen
boilerplate information from http://www.pcgen.com/ for the Description
field).  We can leave the Delete Warning field blank.
I) On the Files tab, click on the Choose button to the right of the
Root field.  Navigate to the folder you have the PCGen distribution
folder in.  Make sure that the Compress Archive folder is checked.
J) On the Resources tab, click on the Choose button to the right of
the Resources field.  Navigate to the English.proj folder that is in
the archive subfolder of PCGen.
K) On the Info tab, enter "/Applications" (without quotes) in the
Default Location field.
L) Set the Post-Install Action to "No Restart Required".  Set the
Authorization Action to "No Authorization Required".
M) Check the checkboxes for "Allow Revert to Previous Version", and
"Relocatable".  All of the other checkboxes should be off.
N) On the Version tab, in the Display Name, enter "PCGen" (without
quotes).  In the Identifier field, enter "com.codemonkey.pcgen"
(without quotes).
O) Enter the relevant version information in the Get-Info String and
Short Version fields.  Enter the first version numeral in the Major
field (currently "5"), and the number after the first decimal in the
minor field (currently "8")
P) From the file menu, choose Create Package.  Save the file as
PCGenXXX.pkg (where "XXX" is the version number; currently, that would
be "580"). If you have not done step D above and deleted the resource
forks, you may get a message here saying that Pacakge Maker wants to
split the resource forks off. Click Split Forks.

We now have a nicely bundled Installer package. You should test your
creation by double-clicking on the PCGenXXX.pkg file; Installer should
launch and, once you follow the prompts, it should create a PCGen
folder in your Applications folder and locate all of the files in the
correct place. You might want to launch PCGen from your
newly-installed folder to make sure it works.

The only problem with your Installer package is that the internet is
not friendly to .pkg files since they are really just specially named
and configured folders. You can use a compression utility to create a
Stuffit (.sit) or zipfile (.zip) archive; personally, I think disk
image files (.dmgs) are much handier.

PART 6: Creating a .dmg (disk image) file
A) Launch /Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility.  Click on the New
Image button in the toolbar of the main window.  Name this image
"PCGen for OS X.dmg" (without quotes).
B) Mount the disk image by double-clicking on it and copy the
PCGenXXX.pkg to it.  You might also want to put an additional copy of
the ReadMe/Release Notes for this version on the disk image.
C) Unmount the disk image by dragging the virtual disk icon to the
trash can.
D) In Disk Utility, select the disk image in the left sidebar of the
main window.  From the Images menu above, select Convert.
E) In the Save As: Field, enter a file name of
"pcgenXXX_mac_install.dmg" (without quotes, where "XXX" is the version
number; currently, that would be "580").
F) Select "Compressed" from the Image Format menu towards the bottom
of this sheet and click Save.

You now have a disk image file that can be uploaded to your favorite
file server.

(Special thanks goes to Conor Schutzman for writing the original version)

Brilliant!  Thank you _very_ much for this - Karianna

--- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <jelmore@v...> wrote:
> After getting a copy of the Mac OS X build process, I went through and

<snip rest>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the pcgen
group.

   File        : /Tracker Monkeys/Tracker Numbers.xls
   Uploaded by : karianna03 <karianna@...>
   Description : Tracker Numbers

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen/files/Tracker%20Monkeys/Tracker%20Numbers.xl\
s

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

karianna03 <karianna@...>

Hi all,

New Spreadsheet detailing number of open trackers on a weekly basis is
now in the Tracker Monkey folder in the files section.

We have 601 Open trackers folks <karianna beams>.

The good news is that about a month ago it was more like 800+, Feature
Requests and Bugs have dropped significantly (about 100 each).  So go us!!

So the user base knows, we're working hard to eliminate the trackers
in PCGENDM and PCGENDocs so we can re merge the projects.

Karianna
<Who has 601 reasons to keep going now ;p>

But I thought you had over 5000...javadocs to place
*ducks, runs, hides*

-----Original Message-----
From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
karianna03
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 5:20 AM
To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pcgen] Tracker Numbers - How we are doing

Karianna
<Who has 601 reasons to keep going now ;p>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/115 - Release Date: 9/29/2005

OK, well 601 trackers + 4342 missing Javadoc comments, oh and one P9
bug, which should probably take precedence ;p

And I promised the data team some freqs as well, hmmm, I need to get
my dev environment sorted.

And besides, I'm sure all of the coders will be helping out with the
Javadocs ;p

K

--- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King" <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
> But I thought you had over 5000...javadocs to place
> *ducks, runs, hides*

> <[Content_SB]mosat> hi guys

Sorry I didn't make, had a previous commitment


> <[Content_SB]mosat> hmm and I just thought of a way around the kit
problem
> <[Content_SB]mosat> we have a REMOVE:FEAT tag now right? we can just
remove
> the Archaic prof feat if it has been chosen

BTW, I been forgetting to mention, Prettylst reports REMOVE:FEAT as an
invalid class tag.

> <[Content_SB]mosat> well I've already started going through our data
> trackers and sorting them

I plan on trackering and working on those items James Blakeney has
been posting as soon as I can remove the Uber-Stick (tm) from RL hands.

> <[Content_SB]mosat> Characters approved for use in object names are:
upper
> and lower case letters, numbers, single spaces in between multiple words
> (never before or after) and the following glyphs: underscore (_),
dash (-),
> apostrophe ('), parentheses (), and a slash (/).
> <[Content_SB]mosat> thats about three lines in my window ya'll see it?
> <kingpaul> yep
> <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yep
> <[Content_SB]mosat> now here's the thing
> <kingpaul> but don't parens cause problems elsewhere?
> <kingpaul> and dashes for that matter?
> <[Content_SB]mosat> that's the issue
> <[Content_SB]mosat> if this standard is adopted we need the code
team to be
> on board
> <[Content_SB]mosat> because when issues relating to name characters
come up
> they need to be P9 squashed asap
> <[Content_SB]mosat> or we might as well not adopt that standard for the
> trouble it will cause

I would agree with this. The code monkeys really have more important
things to do IMO. OUTPUNAME might not be the prefered solution but it
does work.

> <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> What can Abilities already do at this time?

I was wondering: there is a PrC I  need to code for my personal files
as I intend to use it for a character. One of the prereqs is:

Evasion from a race or class ability.

I presume it's written this way to preclude using a Ring of Evasion to
qualify. I know the current feat coding cannot do this. Does the spec
for Ability include the ability to tell how the character acquired the
ability? (that was repetitive) If not, is this a resonable/useful
ability :\ to ask for?

No, the way Eddy seems to want it is a TYPE tag to tell if it is a Class Ability
or not.  What we need, and will have eventually, is a way to tell what objects
grant what (from CDOM).  After Devon's team has cleaned up the code, he's
promised they'll be going to that, and we'll start having lots more options
there.

I personally think putting "ClassAbility" etc in the TYPEs is a Bad Idea. 
Shot-gun method to solving a problem, that will cover maybe 80% of what we need,
but not the stuff we will really need it for, like Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, etc. 
I don't see the point for the maintenance overhead; either we can do something,
and right, or let's not in our data.

Tir Gwaith
LST Chimp

> I was wondering: there is a PrC I  need to code for my personal files
> as I intend to use it for a character. One of the prereqs is:
>
> Evasion from a race or class ability.
>
> I presume it's written this way to preclude using a Ring of Evasion to
> qualify. I know the current feat coding cannot do this. Does the spec
> for Ability include the ability to tell how the character acquired the
> ability? (that was repetitive) If not, is this a resonable/useful
> ability :\ to ask for?

On 9/30/05 4:30 AM, "karianna03" <karianna@...> wrote:

> All of this industry is going to make me burst with pride soon,

Keeps the ninja monkeys at bay too  ;-)
--
~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
~ PCGen Content Silverback

Okay, there was some discussion sometime within the last couple of weeks
on how to get PCGen to use more memory on a Mac. But I'll be damned if I
can find it. There's some people over on CMP's forums asking about that.

http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtop
ic&t=10964

Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
PCGen BoD OGL Silverback, Data & Tracker Lemur
Holder of Sacred SRD Knowledge
ICQ: 14397299
AO: Nylan
CoH:Nylan Neblett
Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)

"I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted paychecks"

--- "Paul W. King" <paulking.rhochi@...>
wrote:

> <[Content_SB]mosat> I've got a couple of trackers
> for you to look at Frank
> <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> what is it?
> <[Content_SB]mosat> [ 1170710 ] [MSRD] Weapon prof
> choice by creature type
> <[Content_SB]mosat>
>
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1170710&group_id=3
> 6698&atid=417819
> <[Content_SB]mosat> in modern some creature type get
> to choose either
> Archaic weapons or simple
> <[Content_SB]mosat> I had come up with a solution
> but the KIT set up will
> make it not work
> <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> yeah I'm waiting for the tracker
> to display
> <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> that darn satelite can be slow
> sometimes
> <[Content_SB]mosat> I was just wondering how
> important you think this is to
> modern playters
> <[Content_SB]mosat> er, modern  players
> <kingpaul> why does KIT break a choice?
> <[Content_SB]mosat> it doesn't
> <[Content_SB]mosat> here's the thing
> <[Content_SB]mosat> it appear that default monsters
> always choose the simple
> prof
> <[Content_SB]mosat> if the CHOOSE is implemented
> from the type template or
> race then the choice happens during race selection
> <[DM]Frank_Kliewe> it would be nice to have, but I
> wouldn't consider it for
> 5.8.1.
> <[Content_SB]mosat> since the kit is applied after
> that it has no say in the
> matter
> <kingpaul> i think i get it
> <[Content_SB]mosat> It's easy enough to do, I've
> already got it done really
> <[Content_SB]mosat> as long as a chooser window at
> race selection dosn't
> bother anyone
> <[Content_SB]mosat> but yeah, I'm not going to try
> this for 5.8.1

The PROF tag in the kit code is intended to handle
this.  As you point out though, if the creature
already has a monster level it won't work.  I am not
sure how this would work with races that "don't have a
monster level" (i.e. that replace it with a character
class) or if that would apply in this case.

-Aaron


----------------
Aaron Divinsky
PCGen Data Tamarin, Doc Lemur



__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

On 9/30/05 1:15 PM, "boomer70" <boomer70@...> wrote:

>> <[Content_SB]mosat> since the kit is applied after
>> that it has no say in the
>> matter

>
> The PROF tag in the kit code is intended to handle
> this.  As you point out though, if the creature
> already has a monster level it won't work.  I am not
> sure how this would work with races that "don't have a
> monster level" (i.e. that replace it with a character
> class) or if that would apply in this case.

He's the idea I had, the default kit for those monsters that get the choice
would all get a template with REMOVE:FEAT to take the Archaic profs out and
an ADD:FEAT to add the Simple Prof in, shouldn't be a problem I just needed
to think about it a bit :-)
--
~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
~ PCGen Content Silverback

--- Paul Grosse <paul.grosse@...> wrote:

> Okay, there was some discussion sometime within the last couple of weeks
> on how to get PCGen to use more memory on a Mac. But I'll be damned if I
> can find it. There's some people over on CMP's forums asking about that.
>

First, launch a Terminal window. That gives you a command line. Yeah, I
know... a Unix command line on a Mac... it creeped me out the first time. ;-)

From the command line, cd to the directory where your PCGen install lives.
Then launch java to run PCGen with the memory-adding parameters. It's the
same syntax as running it on a PC from the command line. Something like:

# java -Xms 256M -Xmx 256M -jar pcgen.jar

(That may not be quite right, but something like that. You might have a
machine handy where you can verify the syntax.)

It works like a charm, and makes a *huge* difference in how well PCGen
performs on a Mac. :-)

It has the added benefit that you get to see any error messages which are
directed to the console (stdout or stderr), which can be a big help in
debugging LST files.

Michael

Just a quick note to let you guys know that I've finaly found the time to build
and upload the Windows installer for the latest alpha release.

The link for the release notes:
<http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=30020&group_id=25576>

-----------------------------------------------------------
Éric "Space Monkey" Beaudoin
Founding Member of the Hidden-in-the-Trench Club
Release Monkey and Syntax Watchdog
>> In space, no one can hear you sleep.
>> Camels to can climb trees (and sometime eat them).
<mailto:beaudoer@...>

Ok, I did a bit of a survey using Yahoo's new site explorer (which can
tell you how many incoming links you have amongst other things).  I
searched for the bulk of RPG packages that I could think of off the top
of my head:
http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/

Profantasy (Campaign Cartographer): 3,453
OpenRPG: 3,137
PCGen: 2,569
Code Monkey Publishing: 1,734
Autorealm: 1,372
Twin Rose (Campaign suite): 794
DM Genie: 518
Jamis Buck's Generators: 334
DM's Familiar: 271
FantasyGrounds: 245

My assumptions are these:
1) Longer lived packages will have more links
2) More popular packages will have more links
3) Defunct packages will have less links (Jamis Buck)

All in all, it looks to me like we have a decent web presence, but I'm
wondering if y'all have any ideas as to what all we can do to encourage
more people to link in to pcgen, and other ways we can raise our profile.

I was thinking one good thing might be for use to create a blog so that
we can post important things out to a wider audience then the more
hardcore people in the Y! groups.   In fact, I have a hard time
imagining that many people actually keep up with all the traffic on this
list - so something that has a little less traffic, but higher quality
content (tips, tricks, announcements of new datasets or major features,
tutorials, etc) probably would appeal to a decent number of people.

Anyway, just some brainstorming, wanted to see how y'all reacted to that
as an idea.

Devon

At 18:39 2005.09.30, you wrote:
>Ok, I did a bit of a survey using Yahoo's new site explorer (which can
>tell you how many incoming links you have amongst other things).  I
>searched for the bulk of RPG packages that I could think of off the top
>of my head:
>http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/
>
>Profantasy (Campaign Cartographer): 3,453
>OpenRPG: 3,137
>PCGen: 2,569
>Code Monkey Publishing: 1,734
>Autorealm: 1,372
>Twin Rose (Campaign suite): 794
>DM Genie: 518
>Jamis Buck's Generators: 334
>DM's Familiar: 271
>FantasyGrounds: 245
>
>My assumptions are these:
>1) Longer lived packages will have more links
>2) More popular packages will have more links
>3) Defunct packages will have less links (Jamis Buck)
>
>All in all, it looks to me like we have a decent web presence, but I'm
>wondering if y'all have any ideas as to what all we can do to encourage
>more people to link in to pcgen, and other ways we can raise our profile.
>
>I was thinking one good thing might be for use to create a blog so that
>we can post important things out to a wider audience then the more
>hardcore people in the Y! groups.   In fact, I have a hard time
>imagining that many people actually keep up with all the traffic on this
>list - so something that has a little less traffic, but higher quality
>content (tips, tricks, announcements of new datasets or major features,
>tutorials, etc) probably would appeal to a decent number of people.
>
>Anyway, just some brainstorming, wanted to see how y'all reacted to that
>as an idea.
>
>Devon

This reminds me, can you put the public PGP key that I use for the release
somewhere on the site?

Here is the key.

P.S. If any other BOD member use PGP, you are very welcome to sing the key.

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: PGP 8.1
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Qz2v7AUJAeEzgAcLCQgHAwIKAhkBBRsDAAAABR4BAAAAAAoJEDFQQqi05KoogNQA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=lydV
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----



-----------------------------------------------------------
Éric "Space Monkey" Beaudoin
Founding Member of the Hidden-in-the-Trench Club
Release Monkey and Syntax Watchdog
>> In space, no one can hear you sleep.
>> Camels to can climb trees (and sometime eat them).
<mailto:beaudoer@...>

At 18:46 2005.09.30, Éric Beaudoin wrote:

>Here is the key.
>[snip.]

I forgot to mention that this is a new key that I've generated today since the
one I was using before expired. I'm about to re-upload the signature file for
the .zip of release 5.9.3.

If what I just wrote looks like Chinese to you, do not worry and just ignore me
:-).


-----------------------------------------------------------
Éric "Space Monkey" Beaudoin
Founding Member of the Hidden-in-the-Trench Club
Release Monkey and Syntax Watchdog
>> In space, no one can hear you sleep.
>> Camels to can climb trees (and sometime eat them).
<mailto:beaudoer@...>

I just downloaded 5.9.3 and while it has wildshape templates for
3.5/RSRD it still lacks them for 3.0/SRD.  I uploaded a zip file to
lstfilehelp that I coded up for my own use months back but it may not
use the same schema as the 3.5 system.

-James McP

Hi,

I was setting up some NPCs for my game this weekend and hit a
stumbling block.  I've got a non-OGL source that has an ability that
grants rage-like qualities to other characters (aka not the character
with the ability)  I started thinking about how to code it up and
realized it would be easiest to have a set of modifier templates that
cover the most common incidents.  E.g. "+1 morale attack", "+1 luck
damage", etc.

Does anyone see how this would break something?  Conflict with future
plans?  Cause this would make GMGen-type functionality much nicer and
provide workarounds for uncoded spells, psionics, etc.

-James McP

Divine Reach needs to be able to be selectable twice (it doubles the
range the second time), and Heirophant Spell Power needs to be
selectable any number of times.

Trackered:
[ 1309982 ] Some Heirophant special abilities need MULT
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1309982&group_id=2
5576&atid=750091>

Eric Jarman scribed:

> Divine Reach needs to be able to be selectable twice (it doubles the
> range the second time), and Heirophant Spell Power needs to be
> selectable any number of times.

--
~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
~ PCGen Content Silverback