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* This was last updated 19th of August 2009

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--------------------------------------------------------------
New Policy on Asking Questions about PI/Closed Content Sources
--------------------------------------------------------------

We respect the Publishers wishes with regards to PI and Closed Content
and therefore strongly prefer that any discussion of the creation of
those data sources are held in Generic terms.

However, we realise that a vast majority of you are asking questions
on how to code data sets for your own personal use and so we're no
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and hope that you'll do the same.

We will still not tolerate any PI/Closed Content being uploaded to our
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Examples:
---------

1.) A user asking how to code the Skirmish ability from the Complete
Adventurer (WotC) will receive a helpful polite answer phrased in
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every 3 levels you'd want to look to the Rogue sneak attack
progression in our SRD files". But no more finger waving or growling
from the Moderators!

2.) A user stating that they want someone to give them a privately
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3.) A user uploading the Complete Adventurer data source will be
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So, for all community members, there's no longer any need to call in
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For reference:
--------------

Closed Content/PI is any data source that we don't have permission to
publish ourselves or isn't OGL/OGC.

Please see:

http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/acknowledgments/publishersand\
sources.html

For a list of publisher permissions that we currently have.

PapaDRB and Karianna - on behalf of the Moderators
- This doc was modified from Mynex's and Hetter's original doc.

Greetings,
Sorry to hear you've become too demotivated to try. There isn't a simple fix I'm
afraid (nobody can give you updated datasets, as nice as that would be), the
only solution is to update these yourself.

I see your point on having PCGen as your 'browsing' tool with all the sources
included, but that does mean that you're loading up a heck of a lot. I presume
you use a script to start pcgen, and have allocated more memory to the process
(or is that only needed for windows?)

The more you load, the slower PCGen gets and the more cross references, typos
and duplicates can give errors, but if you need it all, then so be it.
However, consider if you definately do - there are epic & prestige classes,
wondrous items and monster races, which can all be ignored if you're only doing
low level character generation (for example).

Migrating from CMP - my reasons are based around being able to use new
functionality, such as abilities instead of SAB, and reusing improved code for
things like Turning/Rage etc, which then output to the printed character sheet
in more definable ways.
CMP reinvented the wheel completely for their datasets, so they had to duplicate
the effort in building their own version of the SRD, and while they added better
descriptions, these sets are full of typo's and errors, while the PCGen SRD is
maintained and corrected.
For example, my Forgotten Realms version(s) of the various Half Elves merely
pretty much just mod the standard SRD HalfElf, and add the FR template - no need
to rebuild all the features over again.

This is however, a process that really does need to be done piecemeal, rather
than all in one go. It's more work, but pays off long term.

As a stop-gap, to keep the 'browse' functionality you need, consider duplicating
each row in the LST file, comment out the original entry and edit the copy to
remove things that may cause errors, and then add SAB to indicate the 'missing'
definitions.
Then you can add in just the bits you need as you find them whilst still having
the full list browsable.

For instance, rather than a feat with a massive PRExxx definition, and various
calculations and vfeats with cross references (that may not work), change it to:
FeatNameBlah   DESC:doessomething SAB:has loads of PRExx and provides vfeat:blah

Same principle for every LST.



>"Insufficient campaign information to load character file." "Could not load
party PartyFile."

That implies that the source needed for the character isnt loaded, when you
edit, do you change the PCC or just the LST? If you change the PCC you need to
'refresh sources' (or restart PCGen - which I'd actually highly recommend for
the situation you're in) I presume that you're loading *all* the sources all the
time? There's a preference to 'load sources with character', that you could use
otherwise.

Party file is for saving a whole group of PC's together, I doubt you'd be using
this from what you've described, so this may just be a bug in 5.14 - one of the
reasons for upgrading is to get the bugfixes...

>when making a character, it's often for a game the same evening

That does really prevent you from getting help in time certainly. For such a
quick turn around, you can't afford to be editing lst files at that point. But
if you're generating 'one off' characters (as appears to the case) then rather
than fix the lst file, I'd just add a SAB to add a description for whatever
wasnt working properly.

>my friends ridicule me for still trying

But I guess they are either trawling through a meter of books, or sticking with
just basic characters, at least you've got an easy way to get all the info.

If 5.14 works, then stick with it for now, but note that you can run two or more
versions side by side - so you could have 5.14 with the full source list and
5.16 with a reduced list of just the ones you've fixed or currently need to use.
Then you'd browse in 5.14, and as you choose things, load those sources (and fix
as necessary) in 5.16. Keep a seperate copy of the datasets for each version to
ensure compatibility, and keep a seperate PCGen preferences file for each
instance.
Hopefully this is what you're already doing?


Cheers
Dave
--- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "rogerwllco" <g.a.renting@...> wrote:
>
> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "FerretDave" <ferret.griffin@> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > I'll admit my experience is with migrating from CMP, rather than trying to
keep that gamemode working.
> >
> What's the advantage? Would it not be more work?
>
> > I'll reiterate a point from the wiki:
> >
> > You don't need to convert all of it.
> >
> > As it's only for personal use, you only need to focus on the bits that are
actively used in your campaign(s).
> >
> > So comment out large chunks of it, and focus on the bits you *need*.
> > If you can make it into more bitesize chunks, you'll find it far less
daunting.
> >
>
> The reason I have the CMP files and want to use them, is so that I can browse
my options in PCGen. For example sort all the available races by LA or type. To
me it's much quicker than going though more than a meter of books.
>
> If I wanted only those things in there that I am sure to use, I would write it
from scratch instead of trying to convert the existing stuff.
>
> I have over 800 LST files. They work in 5.14 and I find the task of converting
them to big and complicated. So I'm sticking with 5.14.
>
> I just wanted others who might be in the same position as me to know how to
run things.
>
> > I know some of the odd things that have happened to me previously have been
due to massive amounts of errors in the lst files causing program errors, I
worked around this by being methodical - working on (editing and loading) just
one source at a time, and commenting out anything that I wasnt specifically
using (or intending to use) and just fixing the errors step by step. Once the
errors were gone, then I'd work on the next set (and load *both* sources -
slowly build up).
> >
> I've tried doing that. I gave up. I might be able to go though one LST file in
an evening. Too much time gets lost with starting PCGen and building a character
to see if something worked, then stopping it again, and trying something else.
> One of the things that made me give up, is that I can now make some characters
and things look kind of ok, but then I discover a problem in an LST file and on
starting the program again and trying to load the character I was working on, I
get errors like:
> "Insufficient campaign information to load character file." "Could not load
party PartyFile."
>
> I could ask here what these might mean. But everyone seems focussed on 5.17.x
and when making a character, it's often for a game the same evening, so having a
discussion that might solve my problem in a week is not much help.
>
> With 5.14 I can make a character and know I'm done in 30 minutes. With 5.16 I
might spend an evening trying to fix an LST file and then still ending up with
other weird errors.
>
> In the mean time my friends ridicule me for still trying to use PCGen. I
haven't been able to make a proper character on time for the evening since going
to Lion and trying 5.16.
>
> I'm currently just fed up with the whole thing.
>
> > Note the wiki suggestion about using the batch file to start PCGen, thus
giving you more visibility of load errors, this was a major eureka moment for
me. (some errors are flagged *before* you load sources, or even before the GUI
starts).
> >
> > On forum we can only discuss things in a generic context, if you want to
discuss more specific issues feel free to contact me directly. I can't promise I
can help, but I can try.
> >
> Thanks for the offer. Currently I am too demotivated to give this another try.
>
> > Cheers
> > Dave
> >
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> RW

Hi,

Updating the CMP sets*shouldn't* be all that hard, *if* done in a methodical
manner and using the
tools available.

If the sets you have are working fantastic in 5.14, then you should be able to
use the converter
program available in 5.16 to bring those sets forward with minimal fuss - that
was the purpose of
the converter - to assist homebrews and older sets to stay current.

From my own experience in keeping sets up to date the issues the converter isn't
able to handle is
improper syntax that 5.14 was silently dropping. With 5.16 we have greater error
catching than
before. The error catching improves even more as we progress into 6.0.

Here is what I recommend - You run the PCGen Converter. It will have a LOG of
issues it couldn't
handle - look at those and fix them.

Load up 5.16, Open you preferences - Find the Input - there should be a check
box to select 'Show
Detailed Error Report' or something along those lines. There is also the option
to turn of
deprecated warnings - I'd recommend unselecting that so you can fix the true
errors first, then
we'll worry about updating the syntax.

Next - Load only your core set (PHB) (I prefer to use the bat file to load pcgen
which has a dos
console box open, but you can simply open the console in pcgen under tools
IIRC).

Note the Error Messages - If in the dox box select all the text and then hit
'ENTER' - that will
save all those errors (I usually open my text editor and place those in their
own file - errors.lst.

Deprecated/Deprecation Messages should be safe to ignore for now - In fact if
you followed the
above, you shouldn't be seeing them.

Unconstructed References - These are Abilities, Feats, Templates which are being
asked for that the
program cannot find. It will tell you what Category 'Feat' 'Special Ability'
etc, and the name of
the offending file. It should also give you the originating file for the call.
Though that may be
later in 5.17 we got that ability. In most cases you either have a typo
(Misspelled name, or someone
isn't using the KEY name if it's set). Fix those by either correcting the typo,
or in the case it's
actually missing, create one.

Error Messages are the big issues - You've got syntax usage in a wrong file, or
improper usage of
syntax. It will usually tell you the file, and the offending syntax, in some
cases you'll have one
issue generate 2 to 3 warnings, since once one part of the syntax is bad, the
rest is also bad.
These need to be fixed for a smooth operation.

NPEs - NullPointerErrors - Those are the OH CRAP errors that severely broke
something - DO NOT
CONTINUE TO USE PCGEN if you see one of these guys - any issue you find is NULL
& VOID as the
program is already broken and unstable. These need to be addressed immediately.
Common causes of these guys - Spaces where spaces do not belong; stray symbols
in odd places, or
really bad syntax.  In all cases, you should seek help here as any of the code
monkeys and
experienced Data Monkeys can usually discern what the cause is and direct you
how to fix it.

Other weird error messages - You either have a Code Issue, or your syntax is
funky. Report it here.
Unlike those nasty NPEs, these guys mean you broke something, but the rest of
the program should be
okay to use (i.e. your broken issue is isolated from the rest of the program).

Like I said before, most of your error messages won't be the fault of the
converter, it was bad
syntax that was never discovered till the program was taught to announce it. It
may seem like a
mountain, but be methodical - Trust me, most of your errors can be caught at
load up without opening
any character. I'd say give yourself a couple of hours and most if not all your
issues can be fixed.

I'm usually available during the week to give guidance and to assist if you
require it. Don't give
up. If you have a troublesome set, and can't figure it out, SEND ME the error
report off-list (my
email should be visible in this reply). I'll reply off-list on what steps are
required, which
usually is enough to get you down the road. If you need more help, well, I don't
have any issues
debugging sets for people. I try to avoid offering that as a first recourse
though - better to teach
a man to fish so that he can feed himself every day, than to catch a fish for
him and feed him only
for a day.

Cheers,




On 3/1/2012 7:34 AM, FerretDave wrote:
> Greetings,
> Sorry to hear you've become too demotivated to try. There isn't a simple fix
I'm afraid (nobody can give you updated datasets, as nice as that would be), the
only solution is to update these yourself.
>
> I see your point on having PCGen as your 'browsing' tool with all the sources
included, but that does mean that you're loading up a heck of a lot. I presume
you use a script to start pcgen, and have allocated more memory to the process
(or is that only needed for windows?)
>
> The more you load, the slower PCGen gets and the more cross references, typos
and duplicates can give errors, but if you need it all, then so be it.
> However, consider if you definately do - there are epic & prestige classes,
wondrous items and monster races, which can all be ignored if you're only doing
low level character generation (for example).
>
> Migrating from CMP - my reasons are based around being able to use new
functionality, such as abilities instead of SAB, and reusing improved code for
things like Turning/Rage etc, which then output to the printed character sheet
in more definable ways.
> CMP reinvented the wheel completely for their datasets, so they had to
duplicate the effort in building their own version of the SRD, and while they
added better descriptions, these sets are full of typo's and errors, while the
PCGen SRD is maintained and corrected.
> For example, my Forgotten Realms version(s) of the various Half Elves merely
pretty much just mod the standard SRD HalfElf, and add the FR template - no need
to rebuild all the features over again.
>
> This is however, a process that really does need to be done piecemeal, rather
than all in one go. It's more work, but pays off long term.
>
> As a stop-gap, to keep the 'browse' functionality you need, consider
duplicating each row in the LST file, comment out the original entry and edit
the copy to remove things that may cause errors, and then add SAB to indicate
the 'missing' definitions.
> Then you can add in just the bits you need as you find them whilst still
having the full list browsable.
>
> For instance, rather than a feat with a massive PRExxx definition, and various
calculations and vfeats with cross references (that may not work), change it to:
> FeatNameBlah   DESC:doessomething SAB:has loads of PRExx and provides
vfeat:blah
>
> Same principle for every LST.
>
>
>
>> "Insufficient campaign information to load character file." "Could not load
party PartyFile."
> That implies that the source needed for the character isnt loaded, when you
edit, do you change the PCC or just the LST? If you change the PCC you need to
'refresh sources' (or restart PCGen - which I'd actually highly recommend for
the situation you're in) I presume that you're loading *all* the sources all the
time? There's a preference to 'load sources with character', that you could use
otherwise.
>
> Party file is for saving a whole group of PC's together, I doubt you'd be
using this from what you've described, so this may just be a bug in 5.14 - one
of the reasons for upgrading is to get the bugfixes...
>
>> when making a character, it's often for a game the same evening
> That does really prevent you from getting help in time certainly. For such a
quick turn around, you can't afford to be editing lst files at that point. But
if you're generating 'one off' characters (as appears to the case) then rather
than fix the lst file, I'd just add a SAB to add a description for whatever
wasnt working properly.
>
>> my friends ridicule me for still trying
> But I guess they are either trawling through a meter of books, or sticking
with just basic characters, at least you've got an easy way to get all the info.
>
> If 5.14 works, then stick with it for now, but note that you can run two or
more versions side by side - so you could have 5.14 with the full source list
and 5.16 with a reduced list of just the ones you've fixed or currently need to
use.
> Then you'd browse in 5.14, and as you choose things, load those sources (and
fix as necessary) in 5.16. Keep a seperate copy of the datasets for each version
to ensure compatibility, and keep a seperate PCGen preferences file for each
instance.
> Hopefully this is what you're already doing?
>
>
> Cheers
> Dave
> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "rogerwllco" <g.a.renting@...> wrote:
>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "FerretDave" <ferret.griffin@> wrote:
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> I'll admit my experience is with migrating from CMP, rather than trying to
keep that gamemode working.
>>>
>> What's the advantage? Would it not be more work?
>>
>>> I'll reiterate a point from the wiki:
>>>
>>> You don't need to convert all of it.
>>>
>>> As it's only for personal use, you only need to focus on the bits that are
actively used in your campaign(s).
>>>
>>> So comment out large chunks of it, and focus on the bits you *need*.
>>> If you can make it into more bitesize chunks, you'll find it far less
daunting.
>>>
>> The reason I have the CMP files and want to use them, is so that I can browse
my options in PCGen. For example sort all the available races by LA or type. To
me it's much quicker than going though more than a meter of books.
>>
>> If I wanted only those things in there that I am sure to use, I would write
it from scratch instead of trying to convert the existing stuff.
>>
>> I have over 800 LST files. They work in 5.14 and I find the task of
converting them to big and complicated. So I'm sticking with 5.14.
>>
>> I just wanted others who might be in the same position as me to know how to
run things.
>>
>>> I know some of the odd things that have happened to me previously have been
due to massive amounts of errors in the lst files causing program errors, I
worked around this by being methodical - working on (editing and loading) just
one source at a time, and commenting out anything that I wasnt specifically
using (or intending to use) and just fixing the errors step by step. Once the
errors were gone, then I'd work on the next set (and load *both* sources -
slowly build up).
>>>
>> I've tried doing that. I gave up. I might be able to go though one LST file
in an evening. Too much time gets lost with starting PCGen and building a
character to see if something worked, then stopping it again, and trying
something else.
>> One of the things that made me give up, is that I can now make some
characters and things look kind of ok, but then I discover a problem in an LST
file and on starting the program again and trying to load the character I was
working on, I get errors like:
>> "Insufficient campaign information to load character file." "Could not load
party PartyFile."
>>
>> I could ask here what these might mean. But everyone seems focussed on 5.17.x
and when making a character, it's often for a game the same evening, so having a
discussion that might solve my problem in a week is not much help.
>>
>> With 5.14 I can make a character and know I'm done in 30 minutes. With 5.16 I
might spend an evening trying to fix an LST file and then still ending up with
other weird errors.
>>
>> In the mean time my friends ridicule me for still trying to use PCGen. I
haven't been able to make a proper character on time for the evening since going
to Lion and trying 5.16.
>>
>> I'm currently just fed up with the whole thing.
>>
>>> Note the wiki suggestion about using the batch file to start PCGen, thus
giving you more visibility of load errors, this was a major eureka moment for
me. (some errors are flagged *before* you load sources, or even before the GUI
starts).
>>>
>>> On forum we can only discuss things in a generic context, if you want to
discuss more specific issues feel free to contact me directly. I can't promise I
can help, but I can try.
>>>
>> Thanks for the offer. Currently I am too demotivated to give this another
try.
>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Dave
>>>
>> Thanks for the reply.
>>
>> RW
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Related Lists
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> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
>
>
> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
>
> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
> (for new official data source development)
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have fixed all the errors that the converter reported. Most of them weren't
hard. The converter has it's own issues, see my earlier post on those.

It's when you go beyond that that things get hard because there are many levels
of complexity.

1) To debug, you often need to start PCGen and build a character, which takes
time.
2) If something doesn't work in 5.16, you need to check if it worked in 5.14
3) You need to figure out how CMP coded the feature. Quite a few things needed
elaborate tricks to make them work. Other things were coded by CMP but never
worked properly.
4) You also need to understand all the variables that are defined elsewhere in
any LST if they are used or could be used to make a fix.
5) You need to search the LST documentation for ways to fix your problem.
Assuming the LST documentation is correct.
6) Once you think you have a fix, you need to run PCGen and try.
7) You end up referencing the books a lot, errata (which were applied by CMP),
to figure out what it should exactly do.
8) The things you're trying to do might be impossible. The trick is how to
determine that?

I can often fix a few simple things, and then end up spending the rest of the
evening wrestling with something hard. Going though all LST files that way will
take years. Especially because I only have a few evenings every now and then,
and the next time I first need to get back into things.

I've made some progress in getting most of Core and some of the Complete's in a
largely functioning state. But as you add more sources, the complexity and
dependencies keep going up. I'm not at the point that I think it's probably
easier to code everything from scratch than it is to try and keep fixing the
existing stuff. Either way seems as too daunting a task, especially because
these were the books that probably were most error-free to begin with. There are
datasets that I know have a lot of issues in 5.14, sometimes because the text in
the book itself is broken, but there was never an errata on the more recent 3.5
books.

With 5.14 I know I can make a character in ~30 minutes and nearly always the
numbers end up correct. In 5.16 things don't work too often to trust the result
and depend on it. Not just the numbers, but the character could be missing
things, or it doesn't load at all.

I do use modified -Xms -Xmx settings in the .plist for additional memory, I do
use "load sources with character".

I think I've done all the right things. I think I'll use 5.14 for as long as I
can, and then either give up on PCGen, or start writing from scratch against the
SRD dataset.

I already appreciated CMP for the work they did and now regret how things ended
even more (I mostly blame WotC and how the handled the 4e transition).

As I said, all my fellow players have long since given up on PCGen and ridicule
me for still trying. I'm providing input into this discussion mostly so you can
keep issues like these in mind going forward developing the program.

Originally I had in mind to convert to 5.16 and then follow the work on 6.0 and
provide feedback. I liked some of the things of the new interface, but also have
many ideas for improvement. I got completely bogged down in the conversion and
spent all my time on that instead.

Currently I just can't afford to spend more time even though I appreciate your
offers for help. That's why I'm sticking with what works, which for me is 5.14.

It's the same thing with Firefox. I'm still on 3.6 because extensions I use are
no longer supported in the newer versions, or only for Windows.

I hope this feedback might be useful to you in some way.

Cheers,

RW.

--- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Updating the CMP sets*shouldn't* be all that hard, *if* done in a methodical
manner and using the
> tools available.
>
> If the sets you have are working fantastic in 5.14, then you should be able to
use the converter
> program available in 5.16 to bring those sets forward with minimal fuss - that
was the purpose of
> the converter - to assist homebrews and older sets to stay current.
>
> From my own experience in keeping sets up to date the issues the converter
isn't able to handle is
> improper syntax that 5.14 was silently dropping. With 5.16 we have greater
error catching than
> before. The error catching improves even more as we progress into 6.0.
>
> Here is what I recommend - You run the PCGen Converter. It will have a LOG of
issues it couldn't
> handle - look at those and fix them.
>
> Load up 5.16, Open you preferences - Find the Input - there should be a check
box to select 'Show
> Detailed Error Report' or something along those lines. There is also the
option to turn of
> deprecated warnings - I'd recommend unselecting that so you can fix the true
errors first, then
> we'll worry about updating the syntax.
>
> Next - Load only your core set (PHB) (I prefer to use the bat file to load
pcgen which has a dos
> console box open, but you can simply open the console in pcgen under tools
IIRC).
>
> Note the Error Messages - If in the dox box select all the text and then hit
'ENTER' - that will
> save all those errors (I usually open my text editor and place those in their
own file - errors.lst.
>
> Deprecated/Deprecation Messages should be safe to ignore for now - In fact if
you followed the
> above, you shouldn't be seeing them.
>
> Unconstructed References - These are Abilities, Feats, Templates which are
being asked for that the
> program cannot find. It will tell you what Category 'Feat' 'Special Ability'
etc, and the name of
> the offending file. It should also give you the originating file for the call.
Though that may be
> later in 5.17 we got that ability. In most cases you either have a typo
(Misspelled name, or someone
> isn't using the KEY name if it's set). Fix those by either correcting the
typo, or in the case it's
> actually missing, create one.
>
> Error Messages are the big issues - You've got syntax usage in a wrong file,
or improper usage of
> syntax. It will usually tell you the file, and the offending syntax, in some
cases you'll have one
> issue generate 2 to 3 warnings, since once one part of the syntax is bad, the
rest is also bad.
> These need to be fixed for a smooth operation.
>
> NPEs - NullPointerErrors - Those are the OH CRAP errors that severely broke
something - DO NOT
> CONTINUE TO USE PCGEN if you see one of these guys - any issue you find is
NULL & VOID as the
> program is already broken and unstable. These need to be addressed
immediately.
> Common causes of these guys - Spaces where spaces do not belong; stray symbols
in odd places, or
> really bad syntax.  In all cases, you should seek help here as any of the code
monkeys and
> experienced Data Monkeys can usually discern what the cause is and direct you
how to fix it.
>
> Other weird error messages - You either have a Code Issue, or your syntax is
funky. Report it here.
> Unlike those nasty NPEs, these guys mean you broke something, but the rest of
the program should be
> okay to use (i.e. your broken issue is isolated from the rest of the program).
>
> Like I said before, most of your error messages won't be the fault of the
converter, it was bad
> syntax that was never discovered till the program was taught to announce it.
It may seem like a
> mountain, but be methodical - Trust me, most of your errors can be caught at
load up without opening
> any character. I'd say give yourself a couple of hours and most if not all
your issues can be fixed.
>
> I'm usually available during the week to give guidance and to assist if you
require it. Don't give
> up. If you have a troublesome set, and can't figure it out, SEND ME the error
report off-list (my
> email should be visible in this reply). I'll reply off-list on what steps are
required, which
> usually is enough to get you down the road. If you need more help, well, I
don't have any issues
> debugging sets for people. I try to avoid offering that as a first recourse
though - better to teach
> a man to fish so that he can feed himself every day, than to catch a fish for
him and feed him only
> for a day.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
>
> On 3/1/2012 7:34 AM, FerretDave wrote:
> > Greetings,
> > Sorry to hear you've become too demotivated to try. There isn't a simple fix
I'm afraid (nobody can give you updated datasets, as nice as that would be), the
only solution is to update these yourself.
> >
> > I see your point on having PCGen as your 'browsing' tool with all the
sources included, but that does mean that you're loading up a heck of a lot. I
presume you use a script to start pcgen, and have allocated more memory to the
process (or is that only needed for windows?)
> >
> > The more you load, the slower PCGen gets and the more cross references,
typos and duplicates can give errors, but if you need it all, then so be it.
> > However, consider if you definately do - there are epic & prestige classes,
wondrous items and monster races, which can all be ignored if you're only doing
low level character generation (for example).
> >
> > Migrating from CMP - my reasons are based around being able to use new
functionality, such as abilities instead of SAB, and reusing improved code for
things like Turning/Rage etc, which then output to the printed character sheet
in more definable ways.
> > CMP reinvented the wheel completely for their datasets, so they had to
duplicate the effort in building their own version of the SRD, and while they
added better descriptions, these sets are full of typo's and errors, while the
PCGen SRD is maintained and corrected.
> > For example, my Forgotten Realms version(s) of the various Half Elves merely
pretty much just mod the standard SRD HalfElf, and add the FR template - no need
to rebuild all the features over again.
> >
> > This is however, a process that really does need to be done piecemeal,
rather than all in one go. It's more work, but pays off long term.
> >
> > As a stop-gap, to keep the 'browse' functionality you need, consider
duplicating each row in the LST file, comment out the original entry and edit
the copy to remove things that may cause errors, and then add SAB to indicate
the 'missing' definitions.
> > Then you can add in just the bits you need as you find them whilst still
having the full list browsable.
> >
> > For instance, rather than a feat with a massive PRExxx definition, and
various calculations and vfeats with cross references (that may not work),
change it to:
> > FeatNameBlah   DESC:doessomething SAB:has loads of PRExx and provides
vfeat:blah
> >
> > Same principle for every LST.
> >
> >
> >
> >> "Insufficient campaign information to load character file." "Could not load
party PartyFile."
> > That implies that the source needed for the character isnt loaded, when you
edit, do you change the PCC or just the LST? If you change the PCC you need to
'refresh sources' (or restart PCGen - which I'd actually highly recommend for
the situation you're in) I presume that you're loading *all* the sources all the
time? There's a preference to 'load sources with character', that you could use
otherwise.
> >
> > Party file is for saving a whole group of PC's together, I doubt you'd be
using this from what you've described, so this may just be a bug in 5.14 - one
of the reasons for upgrading is to get the bugfixes...
> >
> >> when making a character, it's often for a game the same evening
> > That does really prevent you from getting help in time certainly. For such a
quick turn around, you can't afford to be editing lst files at that point. But
if you're generating 'one off' characters (as appears to the case) then rather
than fix the lst file, I'd just add a SAB to add a description for whatever
wasnt working properly.
> >
> >> my friends ridicule me for still trying
> > But I guess they are either trawling through a meter of books, or sticking
with just basic characters, at least you've got an easy way to get all the info.
> >
> > If 5.14 works, then stick with it for now, but note that you can run two or
more versions side by side - so you could have 5.14 with the full source list
and 5.16 with a reduced list of just the ones you've fixed or currently need to
use.
> > Then you'd browse in 5.14, and as you choose things, load those sources (and
fix as necessary) in 5.16. Keep a seperate copy of the datasets for each version
to ensure compatibility, and keep a seperate PCGen preferences file for each
instance.
> > Hopefully this is what you're already doing?
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > Dave
> > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "rogerwllco" <g.a.renting@> wrote:
> >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "FerretDave" <ferret.griffin@> wrote:
> >>> Greetings,
> >>>
> >>> I'll admit my experience is with migrating from CMP, rather than trying to
keep that gamemode working.
> >>>
> >> What's the advantage? Would it not be more work?
> >>
> >>> I'll reiterate a point from the wiki:
> >>>
> >>> You don't need to convert all of it.
> >>>
> >>> As it's only for personal use, you only need to focus on the bits that are
actively used in your campaign(s).
> >>>
> >>> So comment out large chunks of it, and focus on the bits you *need*.
> >>> If you can make it into more bitesize chunks, you'll find it far less
daunting.
> >>>
> >> The reason I have the CMP files and want to use them, is so that I can
browse my options in PCGen. For example sort all the available races by LA or
type. To me it's much quicker than going though more than a meter of books.
> >>
> >> If I wanted only those things in there that I am sure to use, I would write
it from scratch instead of trying to convert the existing stuff.
> >>
> >> I have over 800 LST files. They work in 5.14 and I find the task of
converting them to big and complicated. So I'm sticking with 5.14.
> >>
> >> I just wanted others who might be in the same position as me to know how to
run things.
> >>
> >>> I know some of the odd things that have happened to me previously have
been due to massive amounts of errors in the lst files causing program errors, I
worked around this by being methodical - working on (editing and loading) just
one source at a time, and commenting out anything that I wasnt specifically
using (or intending to use) and just fixing the errors step by step. Once the
errors were gone, then I'd work on the next set (and load *both* sources -
slowly build up).
> >>>
> >> I've tried doing that. I gave up. I might be able to go though one LST file
in an evening. Too much time gets lost with starting PCGen and building a
character to see if something worked, then stopping it again, and trying
something else.
> >> One of the things that made me give up, is that I can now make some
characters and things look kind of ok, but then I discover a problem in an LST
file and on starting the program again and trying to load the character I was
working on, I get errors like:
> >> "Insufficient campaign information to load character file." "Could not load
party PartyFile."
> >>
> >> I could ask here what these might mean. But everyone seems focussed on
5.17.x and when making a character, it's often for a game the same evening, so
having a discussion that might solve my problem in a week is not much help.
> >>
> >> With 5.14 I can make a character and know I'm done in 30 minutes. With 5.16
I might spend an evening trying to fix an LST file and then still ending up with
other weird errors.
> >>
> >> In the mean time my friends ridicule me for still trying to use PCGen. I
haven't been able to make a proper character on time for the evening since going
to Lion and trying 5.16.
> >>
> >> I'm currently just fed up with the whole thing.
> >>
> >>> Note the wiki suggestion about using the batch file to start PCGen, thus
giving you more visibility of load errors, this was a major eureka moment for
me. (some errors are flagged *before* you load sources, or even before the GUI
starts).
> >>>
> >>> On forum we can only discuss things in a generic context, if you want to
discuss more specific issues feel free to contact me directly. I can't promise I
can help, but I can try.
> >>>
> >> Thanks for the offer. Currently I am too demotivated to give this another
try.
> >>
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >> Thanks for the reply.
> >>
> >> RW
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Related Lists
> > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
> > PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
> > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
> > PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
> >
> >
> > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
> > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
> >
> > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
> > (for new official data source development)
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Roger,

Contact me off-list please.

On 3/2/2012 7:35 AM, rogerwllco wrote:
> I have fixed all the errors that the converter reported. Most of them weren't
hard. The converter has it's own issues, see my earlier post on those.
>
> It's when you go beyond that that things get hard because there are many
levels of complexity.
>
> 1) To debug, you often need to start PCGen and build a character, which takes
time.
> 2) If something doesn't work in 5.16, you need to check if it worked in 5.14
> 3) You need to figure out how CMP coded the feature. Quite a few things needed
elaborate tricks to make them work. Other things were coded by CMP but never
worked properly.
> 4) You also need to understand all the variables that are defined elsewhere in
any LST if they are used or could be used to make a fix.
> 5) You need to search the LST documentation for ways to fix your problem.
Assuming the LST documentation is correct.
> 6) Once you think you have a fix, you need to run PCGen and try.
> 7) You end up referencing the books a lot, errata (which were applied by CMP),
to figure out what it should exactly do.
> 8) The things you're trying to do might be impossible. The trick is how to
determine that?
>
> I can often fix a few simple things, and then end up spending the rest of the
evening wrestling with something hard. Going though all LST files that way will
take years. Especially because I only have a few evenings every now and then,
and the next time I first need to get back into things.
>
> I've made some progress in getting most of Core and some of the Complete's in
a largely functioning state. But as you add more sources, the complexity and
dependencies keep going up. I'm not at the point that I think it's probably
easier to code everything from scratch than it is to try and keep fixing the
existing stuff. Either way seems as too daunting a task, especially because
these were the books that probably were most error-free to begin with. There are
datasets that I know have a lot of issues in 5.14, sometimes because the text in
the book itself is broken, but there was never an errata on the more recent 3.5
books.
>
> With 5.14 I know I can make a character in ~30 minutes and nearly always the
numbers end up correct. In 5.16 things don't work too often to trust the result
and depend on it. Not just the numbers, but the character could be missing
things, or it doesn't load at all.
>
> I do use modified -Xms -Xmx settings in the .plist for additional memory, I do
use "load sources with character".
>
> I think I've done all the right things. I think I'll use 5.14 for as long as I
can, and then either give up on PCGen, or start writing from scratch against the
SRD dataset.
>
> I already appreciated CMP for the work they did and now regret how things
ended even more (I mostly blame WotC and how the handled the 4e transition).
>
> As I said, all my fellow players have long since given up on PCGen and
ridicule me for still trying. I'm providing input into this discussion mostly so
you can keep issues like these in mind going forward developing the program.
>
> Originally I had in mind to convert to 5.16 and then follow the work on 6.0
and provide feedback. I liked some of the things of the new interface, but also
have many ideas for improvement. I got completely bogged down in the conversion
and spent all my time on that instead.
>
> Currently I just can't afford to spend more time even though I appreciate your
offers for help. That's why I'm sticking with what works, which for me is 5.14.
>
> It's the same thing with Firefox. I'm still on 3.6 because extensions I use
are no longer supported in the newer versions, or only for Windows.
>
> I hope this feedback might be useful to you in some way.
>
> Cheers,
>
> RW.
>
> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Updating the CMP sets*shouldn't* be all that hard, *if* done in a methodical
manner and using the
>> tools available.
>>
>> If the sets you have are working fantastic in 5.14, then you should be able
to use the converter
>> program available in 5.16 to bring those sets forward with minimal fuss -
that was the purpose of
>> the converter - to assist homebrews and older sets to stay current.
>>
>> From my own experience in keeping sets up to date the issues the converter
isn't able to handle is
>> improper syntax that 5.14 was silently dropping. With 5.16 we have greater
error catching than
>> before. The error catching improves even more as we progress into 6.0.
>>
>> Here is what I recommend - You run the PCGen Converter. It will have a LOG of
issues it couldn't
>> handle - look at those and fix them.
>>
>> Load up 5.16, Open you preferences - Find the Input - there should be a check
box to select 'Show
>> Detailed Error Report' or something along those lines. There is also the
option to turn of
>> deprecated warnings - I'd recommend unselecting that so you can fix the true
errors first, then
>> we'll worry about updating the syntax.
>>
>> Next - Load only your core set (PHB) (I prefer to use the bat file to load
pcgen which has a dos
>> console box open, but you can simply open the console in pcgen under tools
IIRC).
>>
>> Note the Error Messages - If in the dox box select all the text and then hit
'ENTER' - that will
>> save all those errors (I usually open my text editor and place those in their
own file - errors.lst.
>>
>> Deprecated/Deprecation Messages should be safe to ignore for now - In fact if
you followed the
>> above, you shouldn't be seeing them.
>>
>> Unconstructed References - These are Abilities, Feats, Templates which are
being asked for that the
>> program cannot find. It will tell you what Category 'Feat' 'Special Ability'
etc, and the name of
>> the offending file. It should also give you the originating file for the
call. Though that may be
>> later in 5.17 we got that ability. In most cases you either have a typo
(Misspelled name, or someone
>> isn't using the KEY name if it's set). Fix those by either correcting the
typo, or in the case it's
>> actually missing, create one.
>>
>> Error Messages are the big issues - You've got syntax usage in a wrong file,
or improper usage of
>> syntax. It will usually tell you the file, and the offending syntax, in some
cases you'll have one
>> issue generate 2 to 3 warnings, since once one part of the syntax is bad, the
rest is also bad.
>> These need to be fixed for a smooth operation.
>>
>> NPEs - NullPointerErrors - Those are the OH CRAP errors that severely broke
something - DO NOT
>> CONTINUE TO USE PCGEN if you see one of these guys - any issue you find is
NULL & VOID as the
>> program is already broken and unstable. These need to be addressed
immediately.
>> Common causes of these guys - Spaces where spaces do not belong; stray
symbols in odd places, or
>> really bad syntax.  In all cases, you should seek help here as any of the
code monkeys and
>> experienced Data Monkeys can usually discern what the cause is and direct you
how to fix it.
>>
>> Other weird error messages - You either have a Code Issue, or your syntax is
funky. Report it here.
>> Unlike those nasty NPEs, these guys mean you broke something, but the rest of
the program should be
>> okay to use (i.e. your broken issue is isolated from the rest of the
program).
>>
>> Like I said before, most of your error messages won't be the fault of the
converter, it was bad
>> syntax that was never discovered till the program was taught to announce it.
It may seem like a
>> mountain, but be methodical - Trust me, most of your errors can be caught at
load up without opening
>> any character. I'd say give yourself a couple of hours and most if not all
your issues can be fixed.
>>
>> I'm usually available during the week to give guidance and to assist if you
require it. Don't give
>> up. If you have a troublesome set, and can't figure it out, SEND ME the error
report off-list (my
>> email should be visible in this reply). I'll reply off-list on what steps are
required, which
>> usually is enough to get you down the road. If you need more help, well, I
don't have any issues
>> debugging sets for people. I try to avoid offering that as a first recourse
though - better to teach
>> a man to fish so that he can feed himself every day, than to catch a fish for
him and feed him only
>> for a day.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/1/2012 7:34 AM, FerretDave wrote:
>>> Greetings,
>>> Sorry to hear you've become too demotivated to try. There isn't a simple fix
I'm afraid (nobody can give you updated datasets, as nice as that would be), the
only solution is to update these yourself.
>>>
>>> I see your point on having PCGen as your 'browsing' tool with all the
sources included, but that does mean that you're loading up a heck of a lot. I
presume you use a script to start pcgen, and have allocated more memory to the
process (or is that only needed for windows?)
>>>
>>> The more you load, the slower PCGen gets and the more cross references,
typos and duplicates can give errors, but if you need it all, then so be it.
>>> However, consider if you definately do - there are epic & prestige classes,
wondrous items and monster races, which can all be ignored if you're only doing
low level character generation (for example).
>>>
>>> Migrating from CMP - my reasons are based around being able to use new
functionality, such as abilities instead of SAB, and reusing improved code for
things like Turning/Rage etc, which then output to the printed character sheet
in more definable ways.
>>> CMP reinvented the wheel completely for their datasets, so they had to
duplicate the effort in building their own version of the SRD, and while they
added better descriptions, these sets are full of typo's and errors, while the
PCGen SRD is maintained and corrected.
>>> For example, my Forgotten Realms version(s) of the various Half Elves merely
pretty much just mod the standard SRD HalfElf, and add the FR template - no need
to rebuild all the features over again.
>>>
>>> This is however, a process that really does need to be done piecemeal,
rather than all in one go. It's more work, but pays off long term.
>>>
>>> As a stop-gap, to keep the 'browse' functionality you need, consider
duplicating each row in the LST file, comment out the original entry and edit
the copy to remove things that may cause errors, and then add SAB to indicate
the 'missing' definitions.
>>> Then you can add in just the bits you need as you find them whilst still
having the full list browsable.
>>>
>>> For instance, rather than a feat with a massive PRExxx definition, and
various calculations and vfeats with cross references (that may not work),
change it to:
>>> FeatNameBlah   DESC:doessomething SAB:has loads of PRExx and provides
vfeat:blah
>>>
>>> Same principle for every LST.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Insufficient campaign information to load character file." "Could not load
party PartyFile."
>>> That implies that the source needed for the character isnt loaded, when you
edit, do you change the PCC or just the LST? If you change the PCC you need to
'refresh sources' (or restart PCGen - which I'd actually highly recommend for
the situation you're in) I presume that you're loading *all* the sources all the
time? There's a preference to 'load sources with character', that you could use
otherwise.
>>>
>>> Party file is for saving a whole group of PC's together, I doubt you'd be
using this from what you've described, so this may just be a bug in 5.14 - one
of the reasons for upgrading is to get the bugfixes...
>>>
>>>> when making a character, it's often for a game the same evening
>>> That does really prevent you from getting help in time certainly. For such a
quick turn around, you can't afford to be editing lst files at that point. But
if you're generating 'one off' characters (as appears to the case) then rather
than fix the lst file, I'd just add a SAB to add a description for whatever
wasnt working properly.
>>>
>>>> my friends ridicule me for still trying
>>> But I guess they are either trawling through a meter of books, or sticking
with just basic characters, at least you've got an easy way to get all the info.
>>>
>>> If 5.14 works, then stick with it for now, but note that you can run two or
more versions side by side - so you could have 5.14 with the full source list
and 5.16 with a reduced list of just the ones you've fixed or currently need to
use.
>>> Then you'd browse in 5.14, and as you choose things, load those sources (and
fix as necessary) in 5.16. Keep a seperate copy of the datasets for each version
to ensure compatibility, and keep a seperate PCGen preferences file for each
instance.
>>> Hopefully this is what you're already doing?
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Dave
>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "rogerwllco" <g.a.renting@> wrote:
>>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "FerretDave" <ferret.griffin@> wrote:
>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll admit my experience is with migrating from CMP, rather than trying to
keep that gamemode working.
>>>>>
>>>> What's the advantage? Would it not be more work?
>>>>
>>>>> I'll reiterate a point from the wiki:
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't need to convert all of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> As it's only for personal use, you only need to focus on the bits that are
actively used in your campaign(s).
>>>>>
>>>>> So comment out large chunks of it, and focus on the bits you *need*.
>>>>> If you can make it into more bitesize chunks, you'll find it far less
daunting.
>>>>>
>>>> The reason I have the CMP files and want to use them, is so that I can
browse my options in PCGen. For example sort all the available races by LA or
type. To me it's much quicker than going though more than a meter of books.
>>>>
>>>> If I wanted only those things in there that I am sure to use, I would write
it from scratch instead of trying to convert the existing stuff.
>>>>
>>>> I have over 800 LST files. They work in 5.14 and I find the task of
converting them to big and complicated. So I'm sticking with 5.14.
>>>>
>>>> I just wanted others who might be in the same position as me to know how to
run things.
>>>>
>>>>> I know some of the odd things that have happened to me previously have
been due to massive amounts of errors in the lst files causing program errors, I
worked around this by being methodical - working on (editing and loading) just
one source at a time, and commenting out anything that I wasnt specifically
using (or intending to use) and just fixing the errors step by step. Once the
errors were gone, then I'd work on the next set (and load *both* sources -
slowly build up).
>>>>>
>>>> I've tried doing that. I gave up. I might be able to go though one LST file
in an evening. Too much time gets lost with starting PCGen and building a
character to see if something worked, then stopping it again, and trying
something else.
>>>> One of the things that made me give up, is that I can now make some
characters and things look kind of ok, but then I discover a problem in an LST
file and on starting the program again and trying to load the character I was
working on, I get errors like:
>>>> "Insufficient campaign information to load character file." "Could not load
party PartyFile."
>>>>
>>>> I could ask here what these might mean. But everyone seems focussed on
5.17.x and when making a character, it's often for a game the same evening, so
having a discussion that might solve my problem in a week is not much help.
>>>>
>>>> With 5.14 I can make a character and know I'm done in 30 minutes. With 5.16
I might spend an evening trying to fix an LST file and then still ending up with
other weird errors.
>>>>
>>>> In the mean time my friends ridicule me for still trying to use PCGen. I
haven't been able to make a proper character on time for the evening since going
to Lion and trying 5.16.
>>>>
>>>> I'm currently just fed up with the whole thing.
>>>>
>>>>> Note the wiki suggestion about using the batch file to start PCGen, thus
giving you more visibility of load errors, this was a major eureka moment for
me. (some errors are flagged *before* you load sources, or even before the GUI
starts).
>>>>>
>>>>> On forum we can only discuss things in a generic context, if you want to
discuss more specific issues feel free to contact me directly. I can't promise I
can help, but I can try.
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the offer. Currently I am too demotivated to give this another
try.
>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>>
>>>> RW
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Related Lists
>>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
>>> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
>>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
>>> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
>>>
>>>
>>> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
>>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
>>>
>>> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
>>> (for new official data source development)
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
>> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
>> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
>> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Related Lists
> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
>
>
> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
>
> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
> (for new official data source development)
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here is my report.

1.  I previously installed PCGen 5.17.9 into my Dropbox folder.  As
stated earlier, I installed it with the standard Windows installer,
setting the target folder to a folder in my Dropbox.  I have been using
this installation on both my Win7 desktop and my Win7 laptop without any
problems.

2.  I had previously installed an earlier version of PCGen (possibly
5.16.4) on my Ubuntu Linux 11.10 laptop.  I might even have installed it
correctly.  I remember that I had to replace OpenJava with Sun Java to
get it to work; there may have been some other tweaks I don't remember.
I uninstalled it, and cleared out and removed the .pcgen folder in my
home directory.

3.  I then ran PCGen from my Dropbox folder using "java -jar pcgen.jar"
from the console while in the directory with the pcgen.jar file.  The
program ran fine, as though it were the first time I had run it.

I would probably like to have a more convenient way to run the program,
but my shell programming skills have atrophied dramatically.  The
program did run fine; the rest is convenience.

DS/DL

On 2/27/2012 2:26 PM, ysgarran wrote:
>
> It might be a couple of things with my installation(s).
>
> My first thought is that I don't have the dropbox installed on the
> same folder so my paths for the config files might be messed up.
> Please let us know how it goes with the Ubuntu. If that works for you
> I may try the dropbox install again.
>
> Brian F.
>
> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Doug
> Limmer <adventure@...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm running Windows 7, and have installed PCGen straight into my
> Dropbox
> > folder. (I've also put my homebrew data into a different Dropbox
> > folder.) It works fine for me on several different Windows machines.
> > Each account has its own .pcgen folder (not in Dropbox), though,
> which I
> > believe contains the configuration info; I haven't tried to change that.
> >
> > I haven't tried to run it on my Ubuntu laptop yet. I should try that ...
> >
> > I'm also still using 5.17.9. I should update that, too ...
> >
> > DS/DL
> >
> > On 2/24/2012 4:59 PM, ysgarran wrote:
> > >
> > > I downloaded the new version and wanted to say nice job to the
> > > developers. The speed improvement is greatly welcomed and the new
> look
> > > doesn't hurt either.
> > >
> > > I had another thought I wanted to share. I read this article:
> > > http://abovethecrowd.com/2012/02/23/why-dropbox-is-a-major-disruption/
> > >
> > > and it reminded me of something I tried to do with PCGen and had no
> > > luck with. I wanted to save my configuration and my ".pcg" files into
> > > dropbox so I could easily access them regardless of platform. I had a
> > > terrible time to getting that to work and finally gave up on it.
> > >
> > > Has anyone tried to do this? Any luck?
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I like this idea, I have to update homebrew datasets onto my gaming groups
laptops individually, but with this I can share it out and always have them up
to date.

If you're not online, it uses a cached copy yes?

I've not ran pcgen on linux myself, but in the windows install there's a
'low_mem.bat' batch file, is there not something similar to that in the linux
distribution?

If there isn't, then you can certainly easily create a shell script that runs
the java command line (create a file called 'pcgen.sh' and put your java console
command into it directly, perhaps with a 'cd /path/blah' on a previous line to
get into the right place first), then 'chmod +x pcgen.sh' to make it executable
- run that directly, or create a symlink to your desktop.

We really want a 'high_mem.bat' equivalent to be in the official distribution
too really, and an equivalent high_mem.sh for the linux distro - was someone
working on the re-packaging of that?

Cheers
D

--- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@...> wrote:
>
> Here is my report.
>
> 1.  I previously installed PCGen 5.17.9 into my Dropbox folder.  As
> stated earlier, I installed it with the standard Windows installer,
> setting the target folder to a folder in my Dropbox.  I have been using
> this installation on both my Win7 desktop and my Win7 laptop without any
> problems.
>
> 2.  I had previously installed an earlier version of PCGen (possibly
> 5.16.4) on my Ubuntu Linux 11.10 laptop.  I might even have installed it
> correctly.  I remember that I had to replace OpenJava with Sun Java to
> get it to work; there may have been some other tweaks I don't remember.
> I uninstalled it, and cleared out and removed the .pcgen folder in my
> home directory.
>
> 3.  I then ran PCGen from my Dropbox folder using "java -jar pcgen.jar"
> from the console while in the directory with the pcgen.jar file.  The
> program ran fine, as though it were the first time I had run it.
>
> I would probably like to have a more convenient way to run the program,
> but my shell programming skills have atrophied dramatically.  The
> program did run fine; the rest is convenience.
>
> DS/DL
>
> On 2/27/2012 2:26 PM, ysgarran wrote:
> >
> > It might be a couple of things with my installation(s).
> >
> > My first thought is that I don't have the dropbox installed on the
> > same folder so my paths for the config files might be messed up.
> > Please let us know how it goes with the Ubuntu. If that works for you
> > I may try the dropbox install again.
> >
> > Brian F.
> >
> > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Doug
> > Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm running Windows 7, and have installed PCGen straight into my
> > Dropbox
> > > folder. (I've also put my homebrew data into a different Dropbox
> > > folder.) It works fine for me on several different Windows machines.
> > > Each account has its own .pcgen folder (not in Dropbox), though,
> > which I
> > > believe contains the configuration info; I haven't tried to change that.
> > >
> > > I haven't tried to run it on my Ubuntu laptop yet. I should try that ...
> > >
> > > I'm also still using 5.17.9. I should update that, too ...
> > >
> > > DS/DL
> > >
> > > On 2/24/2012 4:59 PM, ysgarran wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I downloaded the new version and wanted to say nice job to the
> > > > developers. The speed improvement is greatly welcomed and the new
> > look
> > > > doesn't hurt either.
> > > >
> > > > I had another thought I wanted to share. I read this article:
> > > > http://abovethecrowd.com/2012/02/23/why-dropbox-is-a-major-disruption/
> > > >
> > > > and it reminded me of something I tried to do with PCGen and had no
> > > > luck with. I wanted to save my configuration and my ".pcg" files into
> > > > dropbox so I could easily access them regardless of platform. I had a
> > > > terrible time to getting that to work and finally gave up on it.
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone tried to do this? Any luck?
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Just checked, in the windows distro there is a 'pcgen.sh', you should be using
that in linux, no need for scripting :-)

--- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "FerretDave" <ferret.griffin@...> wrote:
>
> I like this idea, I have to update homebrew datasets onto my gaming groups
laptops individually, but with this I can share it out and always have them up
to date.
>
> If you're not online, it uses a cached copy yes?
>
> I've not ran pcgen on linux myself, but in the windows install there's a
'low_mem.bat' batch file, is there not something similar to that in the linux
distribution?
>
> If there isn't, then you can certainly easily create a shell script that runs
the java command line (create a file called 'pcgen.sh' and put your java console
command into it directly, perhaps with a 'cd /path/blah' on a previous line to
get into the right place first), then 'chmod +x pcgen.sh' to make it executable
- run that directly, or create a symlink to your desktop.
>
> We really want a 'high_mem.bat' equivalent to be in the official distribution
too really, and an equivalent high_mem.sh for the linux distro - was someone
working on the re-packaging of that?
>
> Cheers
> D
>
> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
> >
> > Here is my report.
> >
> > 1.  I previously installed PCGen 5.17.9 into my Dropbox folder.  As
> > stated earlier, I installed it with the standard Windows installer,
> > setting the target folder to a folder in my Dropbox.  I have been using
> > this installation on both my Win7 desktop and my Win7 laptop without any
> > problems.
> >
> > 2.  I had previously installed an earlier version of PCGen (possibly
> > 5.16.4) on my Ubuntu Linux 11.10 laptop.  I might even have installed it
> > correctly.  I remember that I had to replace OpenJava with Sun Java to
> > get it to work; there may have been some other tweaks I don't remember.
> > I uninstalled it, and cleared out and removed the .pcgen folder in my
> > home directory.
> >
> > 3.  I then ran PCGen from my Dropbox folder using "java -jar pcgen.jar"
> > from the console while in the directory with the pcgen.jar file.  The
> > program ran fine, as though it were the first time I had run it.
> >
> > I would probably like to have a more convenient way to run the program,
> > but my shell programming skills have atrophied dramatically.  The
> > program did run fine; the rest is convenience.
> >
> > DS/DL
> >
> > On 2/27/2012 2:26 PM, ysgarran wrote:
> > >
> > > It might be a couple of things with my installation(s).
> > >
> > > My first thought is that I don't have the dropbox installed on the
> > > same folder so my paths for the config files might be messed up.
> > > Please let us know how it goes with the Ubuntu. If that works for you
> > > I may try the dropbox install again.
> > >
> > > Brian F.
> > >
> > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Doug
> > > Limmer <adventure@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'm running Windows 7, and have installed PCGen straight into my
> > > Dropbox
> > > > folder. (I've also put my homebrew data into a different Dropbox
> > > > folder.) It works fine for me on several different Windows machines.
> > > > Each account has its own .pcgen folder (not in Dropbox), though,
> > > which I
> > > > believe contains the configuration info; I haven't tried to change that.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't tried to run it on my Ubuntu laptop yet. I should try that ...
> > > >
> > > > I'm also still using 5.17.9. I should update that, too ...
> > > >
> > > > DS/DL
> > > >
> > > > On 2/24/2012 4:59 PM, ysgarran wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I downloaded the new version and wanted to say nice job to the
> > > > > developers. The speed improvement is greatly welcomed and the new
> > > look
> > > > > doesn't hurt either.
> > > > >
> > > > > I had another thought I wanted to share. I read this article:
> > > > > http://abovethecrowd.com/2012/02/23/why-dropbox-is-a-major-disruption/
> > > > >
> > > > > and it reminded me of something I tried to do with PCGen and had no
> > > > > luck with. I wanted to save my configuration and my ".pcg" files into
> > > > > dropbox so I could easily access them regardless of platform. I had a
> > > > > terrible time to getting that to work and finally gave up on it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Has anyone tried to do this? Any luck?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Unfortunately, a simple "make it executable" wasn't enough to get that
to work for me.  I'm guessing it has to do with me using the non-default
location for the program.  It probably wouldn't be too hard to tweak it,
though.

DS/DL

On 3/3/2012 9:20 AM, FerretDave wrote:
>
> Just checked, in the windows distro there is a 'pcgen.sh', you should
> be using that in linux, no need for scripting :-)
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow, the conding frenzy is on now :)

https://github.com/pcgen-svn/pcgen-svn/graphs/impact

Keep up the good work!

Best,

Henk


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings simians,

I ran into a bug in 5.14.1, and checked if it still exists in 5.16.4 (It does)
and 5.17.11 (It doesn't). I couldn't find it on the Jira site as something that
got solved though.

In the process I ended up using 5.17.11 and I have some initial feedback:
- Looks are a lot better. I especially like the loading bar at the bottom
replacing the intermittent busy cursor behaviour of previous versions. I think
it would feel more like a character creator if a small summary of the character,
with a portrait and a few stats, would always be visible.
- If you use the random name generator, and you click on the "Given" button
after generating a name (what is is supposed to do), I get the pronounciation
(Which I think needs to be Pronunciation) overwriting the "Adjust name" (and
what is that supposed to do?).
- It would be nice that after saving a character the icon would be greyed out so
you can see if the character has been changed since last save.
- The "Edit" in the menu doesn't have a text when hovering the mouse over it.
- When using the SRD 3.5, all magical items end up under MAGIC on the Inventory
purchase tab. It would be very useful if magical rings would also show up under
RING, etc.
- The Inventory purchase tab no longer has different ordering options, only
Type/Name.
- It looks like custom items are only saved with the character, no longer under
customsources, is this correct?

It seems that the last issue also solved my problem, as in 5.14/5.16 I'm having
the problem that if I create custom items with an SPROP field, the game copies
the content of the SPROP field each time it loads. I can not reproduce this
error with 5.17.11 because it apparently doesn't save custom items any more. If
anyone would know a work around for this issue in 5.14/5.16 that would be
appreciated. Now I need to delete and create all my custom items each time I
start the program, if they have an SPROP field.

I didn't explore 5.17 any further. I might have more feedback in the future.

Cheers,

RW.

I think I found a workaround: Create a custom item in a homebrew dataset in
customsources instead of having PCGen try to do it for you.

Cheers,

RW.

--- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "rogerwllco" <g.a.renting@...> wrote:
>
>
> Greetings simians,
>
> I ran into a bug in 5.14.1, and checked if it still exists in 5.16.4 (It does)
and 5.17.11 (It doesn't). I couldn't find it on the Jira site as something that
got solved though.
>
> In the process I ended up using 5.17.11 and I have some initial feedback:
> - Looks are a lot better. I especially like the loading bar at the bottom
replacing the intermittent busy cursor behaviour of previous versions. I think
it would feel more like a character creator if a small summary of the character,
with a portrait and a few stats, would always be visible.
> - If you use the random name generator, and you click on the "Given" button
after generating a name (what is is supposed to do), I get the pronounciation
(Which I think needs to be Pronunciation) overwriting the "Adjust name" (and
what is that supposed to do?).
> - It would be nice that after saving a character the icon would be greyed out
so you can see if the character has been changed since last save.
> - The "Edit" in the menu doesn't have a text when hovering the mouse over it.
> - When using the SRD 3.5, all magical items end up under MAGIC on the
Inventory purchase tab. It would be very useful if magical rings would also show
up under RING, etc.
> - The Inventory purchase tab no longer has different ordering options, only
Type/Name.
> - It looks like custom items are only saved with the character, no longer
under customsources, is this correct?
>
> It seems that the last issue also solved my problem, as in 5.14/5.16 I'm
having the problem that if I create custom items with an SPROP field, the game
copies the content of the SPROP field each time it loads. I can not reproduce
this error with 5.17.11 because it apparently doesn't save custom items any
more. If anyone would know a work around for this issue in 5.14/5.16 that would
be appreciated. Now I need to delete and create all my custom items each time I
start the program, if they have an SPROP field.
>
> I didn't explore 5.17 any further. I might have more feedback in the future.
>
> Cheers,
>
> RW.
>

Hi,

Wait till you see the change log for 5.17.12 :P

Speaking of which, I have 12 more bugs to submit (Yeah, I apparently summon the
bugs to me). Good
thing these are oddball corner cases that most average users won't find
themselves.

Let me reply in line for a little clarification though...

On 3/3/2012 2:22 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
> Greetings simians,
>
> I ran into a bug in 5.14.1, and checked if it still exists in 5.16.4 (It does)
and 5.17.11 (It doesn't). I couldn't find it on the Jira site as something that
got solved though.

It may not exist in JIRA if it was pre-move to JIRA. 5.14 to 5.17 we were using
Source Forge
Trackers - if you can give me a summary or title you'd expect it to go by, I
could track it down...
though, you may just want to look at the production release notes - those
usually contain every fix
& feature added over an entire development cycle (5.16.0 is a production
release, not sure if .1
through .4 would continue to hold that).

And as a user since 5.6 or so, (or was that when I started working in my own lst
code...) I can
attest a great MANY improvements and fixes have gone in leading up to 5.17.11.

>
> In the process I ended up using 5.17.11 and I have some initial feedback:
> - Looks are a lot better. I especially like the loading bar at the bottom
replacing the intermittent busy cursor behaviour of previous versions. I think
it would feel more like a character creator if a small summary of the character,
with a portrait and a few stats, would always be visible.

I'm feeling mentally challenged tonight, can you give a little more detail on
what exactly you're
expecting here?

On the main summary tab - you have a summary and stats. (Portrait is on the
Character Tab ;))
Having something following you each tab would take up real estate that is
normally required.


> - If you use the random name generator, and you click on the "Given" button
after generating a name (what is is supposed to do), I get the pronounciation
(Which I think needs to be Pronunciation) overwriting the "Adjust name" (and
what is that supposed to do?).

I'd have to pull it up, I don't normally use the random generators unless I'm
really bored. But if
something doesn't seem to be working correct, do bring it up or better yet, add
it to our Code
Tracker (Bug if it's broken, Feature request if you want to add something).


> - It would be nice that after saving a character the icon would be greyed out
so you can see if the character has been changed since last save.

Agree with ya here - We've been working towards making PCGen aware of when a
character is actually
"dirty" i.e. has had changes, and not. I believe there is already a tracker for
it.

> - The "Edit" in the menu doesn't have a text when hovering the mouse over it.

Fixed in 5.17.12 - I just checked and there is a nice hover text.

> - When using the SRD 3.5, all magical items end up under MAGIC on the
Inventory purchase tab. It would be very useful if magical rings would also show
up under RING, etc.

That sounds odd - can you please tracker that?  jira.pcgen.org  (Reason we ask
you to raise the bug
- one, you get to see it's progress, two, you can provide steps to duplicate it
or answer any
questions the coder has... if I open the bug, then we lose that).


> - The Inventory purchase tab no longer has different ordering options, only
Type/Name.

Name and Type/Name are the two options I see.

> - It looks like custom items are only saved with the character, no longer
under customsources, is this correct?

That shouldn't be the case, sounds like a bug. Please raise a bug for it.

>
> It seems that the last issue also solved my problem, as in 5.14/5.16 I'm
having the problem that if I create custom items with an SPROP field, the game
copies the content of the SPROP field each time it loads. I can not reproduce
this error with 5.17.11 because it apparently doesn't save custom items any
more. If anyone would know a work around for this issue in 5.14/5.16 that would
be appreciated. Now I need to delete and create all my custom items each time I
start the program, if they have an SPROP field.

Well, that sounds like a bug to me...

>
> I didn't explore 5.17 any further. I might have more feedback in the future.

Feedback is good.

>
> Cheers,
>
> RW.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Related Lists
> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
>
>
> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
>
> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
> (for new official data source development)
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

PCGen - Who does what?
Last Edited: Aug 19th, 2009

Please see http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Explanation_of_Teams for the
latest version of this document

Introduction
------------

You'll quickly notice the PCGen has a Monkey theme. Bryan McRoberts chose "Chief
Code Monkey" as his title when he first made PCGen available to the public, and
later adopted the title of Benevolent Dictator. Other teams formed to focus on
different aspects of PCGen, and all have taken to referring to themselves as
Monkeys. In the Documentation provided with PCGen and in the About box of the
actual software we try to list everyone who has contributed to PCGen in
chronological order.

Ranks
-----

In keeping with the Monkey theme a ranking system has evolved as a way to
express appreciation and confer status to those who have contributed their time
and energy to the project. The highest rank is that of Silverback, the
Silverbacks are the leaders of the teams that make up the PCGen project and hold
seats on the Board of Directors. The Silverbacks have a 2nd for each sub team.
Promoting Monkeys is generally the privilege of the teams Silverback. The ranks
are (in decreasing order) 2nd, Chimp, Gibbon, Tamarin, Lemur. The rank of Lemur
is conferred when a volunteer first contributes something useful (whether it be
large or small to the project).

Joining the project
-------------------

PCGen is an Open Source Software Initiative and as such relies entirely on the
efforts of many volunteers. The project is always in need of more volunteers, if
you would like to join we would love to have you. The easiest way to join is to
post a message to the pcgen message board with the subject of "I want to help"
and you will be contacted by a Tracker Monkey and asked what area you would like
to contribute to. You may also contact the Silverback of a team you are
interested in joining directly. A list of the Silverbacks can be found in the
BoD

Board of Directors
------------------

The Board of Directors (BoD) is the steering committee of PCGen, its members
consist of the Team Leads from each team. It had overall governance of the
project and is lead by the Chair Monkey.

Architecture
------------

This team works on the medium and long term gnarly architectural issues for
PCGen, dealing with things such as Internationalization, replacing the data
layer etc.

Code
----

This team works on the Java code, fixing Bugs and developing FREQs.

Content
-------

Content encompasses Data, Documentation, Output Sheets and other non-Java code
project files.

   Data
   ----

This team works on the data for all the books you load in PCGen. They help
answer data questions at the PCGenListFileHelp. They have pcgen_experimental
group where they actually work on the different books we're trying to get into
PCGen.

   Documentation
   -------------

This team works on the Documentation, this is a massive effort combing How To
guides, Data and OS tags, FAQ and much, much more.

   OS
   --

This team works on the output sheets which are used to export to character
sheets in PCGen. These templates involve XML, XSL, PDF and HTML/XHTML.

Admin
-----

This is the team that administers the project as a whole. They amongst other
things monitor the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen yahoo site and consist of
two sub teams.

   Tracker
   -------

They also prioritize all Issues and provide assistance to all teams in a
co-ordination role.

   Release
   -------

This team gathers all the elements and compiles the code to create the packages
that are released to the public.

   Website
   -------

This team is the newest formed team; it's first tasked with finding a permanent
website space to call home and building a fully operational website to
facilitate our many needs. Once phase I is completed they will monitor and
maintain the website. They have a tough job currently of merging our many groups
and websites into one unified and professional website with the full
capabilities we already enjoy today, plus more enhancements.

Public Relations
----------------

The PR team covers dealing with the various stakeholders in PCGen's community,
in particular the Publishers.

   Publisher Liaison
   -----------------

This team servers as the contact for all the Publishers. This way all contact
with Publishers can be more easily managed and consistent.

   OGL
   ---

This team is named after the Open Gaming License that made the popularity of
3e/3.5e possible. This team makes sure that all material included in PCGen meets
any license requirements (not just the OGL).

   Advertising
   -----------

This team deals with PCGen's advertising budget and where and when the
advertising should occur.

That should just about cover it!

Karianna
Chair Monkey - BoD, Moderator

Welcome!

Last edited at 26th April 2010 - This document is an amalgamation of existing
documentation we have.

Important Links
---------------

The following links will lead you to a wealth of information on PCGen

Website:  http://pcgen.sf.net
FAQ/Docs: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
Wiki:     http://wiki.pcgen.org/
Issues:   http://jira.pcgen.org/
SF Site:  http://sourceforge.net/projects/pcgen/

What is PCGen?
--------------

PCGen is a character generator and maintenance program aimed at supporting any
RPG material we can get our hands on.  Currently our focus is on material
released under the Open Gaming License (OGL). A secondary goal is to support as
many house rules as possible. PCGen is meant to be easy to modify to suit your
own campaign, and users are encouraged to share their creations.

Where are the official releases of PCGen?
-----------------------------------------

Currently PCGen is released at http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/

How often are releases?
-----------------------

We try to put out an alpha release every two weeks.  We put out a production
release whenever we reach a significant milestone in terms of functionality and
we certify that the release is stable after rigorous testing.

Why is book <X> not included in PCGen?
--------------------------------------

There are a few possible causes for this situation and the explanation hold true
for both datasets that have never been in PCGen and some which have been in
PCGen but were removed.

(1) If the book is closed content, then we may not have permission from the
publisher, or may not have permission to include enough data to allow the data
to be useful to our users.

(2) If the book if partially or completely OGL content, then we still require
permission from the publisher because the publisher name and book title are both
trademarks. Under the OGL, we require permission to use those to identify the
source of the data. We believe if we cannot identify the source of the data,
then the value to PCGen users is lost (how do you find the data?), so we will
not include a dataset for that source.

(3) It is possible that PCGen does not have the features to support a sufficient
amount of the data from a given source, and thus is not included in our
production release (or is included as an alpha source)

For more information on what sources are available in PCGen and explanations for
those that are not, please refer to our Publisher Permissions page at:
http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/acknowledgments/publishersand\
sources.html

If you find we are unable to publish data for a source you are interested in,
you may wish to contact the publisher directly to express your interest in
having a dataset for PCGen available (either a free one distributed by PCGen or
a commercial dataset distributed by the publisher or a third party).

Where is WotC's non-SRD material?
---------------------------------

When 3rd edition came out in 2000, Wizards of the Coast (WotC) also created the
Open Gaming License (OGL). This would allow 3rd party publishers to use Open
Game Content (OGC) as long as they followed the rules laid out in the OGL. WotC
took most, but not all, of the material in the PHB, DMG and MM and created the
System Reference Document (SRD). They declared this to be OGC, which is what the
3rd party publishers initially used. At a later date, WotC added material from
the Psionics Handbook to the SRD.

When d20 Modern came out, WotC created the Modern System Reference Document
(MSRD). This contains material from d20 Modern, d20 Future, Menace Manual and
Urban Arcana.

When 3.5 came out, WotC created the Revised System Reference Document (RSRD).
This contains material from the 3.5 PHB, 3.5 DMG, 3.5 MM, Expanded Psionics
Handbook, Deities and Demigods (not everything in this material was converted to
3.5), Epic Level Handbook (as Deities and Demigods) and a little bit from Manual
of the Planes.

Any material that WotC did not place in the various Reference Documents is not
available for 3rd party publishers to use. The Red Wizard of Thay did not make
it into the RSRD, so PCGen can not include that in our distribution.

Also see: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html

When will you support my favorite book?
---------------------------------------

We try to get everything in that we can as quickly as we can.  We've made our
process more formal as our project has matured, so now we have "data monkeys"
who test the data, then send it to the publisher for their approval before it
gets included in our releases.  This takes a bit of time and we only have so
many monkeys working on the data, so if you want to jump in and help out on the
book(s) you're specifically interested in, post a note about it on the message
board and we'll put you to work!

Also see: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Data_Wishlist

Will PCGen include everything that it can?
------------------------------------------

We sure plan on it!  It takes a lot of time to complete the data for a book, but
it's time well spent. :)  We ask publishers for their permission before we
include anything, and those of you who are familiar with the OGL know that this
formality isn't required.  However, we at PCGen wish to be courteous to the
publishers and respect their wishes - if a publisher doesn't want us to include
their material (or just a specific book) then we won't include it.  As long as
we comply with the OGL we could legally include anything that is OGL without
needing the publisher's permission, but that goes against the long-standing
policy we've had for PCGen.

For D20 and OGL Games Publishers:
---------------------------------

Please read our OpenLetter to all D20 Games Publishers at:

http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/docs/openletter.html

We'd love to convert your material for use with PCGen.  We have a Publisher
Liaison team who are the ones to contact about getting your material into PCGen.
They're also the team that will seek you out about getting your permission, and
will send you the files for your approval before we include it in a production
release.  If you have anything declared as product identity, we can mark it
clearly as such within PCGen or not include it.  This is a free way for your
material to get widespread use without without giving out so much detail that
purchasing the material is no longer necessary. Email us or post on our yahoo
message board if you'd like more information.

Also see: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Publishers

What does the Board of Directors of PCGen do?
---------------------------------------------

A few people have asked about the Board of Directors (BoD) and their role in
PCGen, so I thought I'd try to come up with a short and sweet explanation.

The BoD is a group that brings together the leaders of every team (Code, Data,
Docs, Publisher Liason, OGL/Licenses, Output Sheets etc) to make sure that
inter-group communications are working. It also decides on general policies to
guide the project in general. One example is that we discussed and decided to
drop d20 compliance for PCGen.  We also discuss what kinds of requirements we
might have on any 3rd party group that would want to claim compliance with
PCGen. Another issue is where to host data - the preferred place is in the
official releases, but there are a couple of situations that would preclude that
from happening: if a publisher wants to host the data themselves and not include
it in an official release (we'd require that the data be free) or if a special
license was required then the publisher or some other site that was compatible
with that license would need to host the data - in all circumstances the data
would be free. The BoD also discusses any key issues for each group - like "What
does the data team need from any of the other teams to finish off book X?". The
BoD does not assign anyone to book X or to fix the bugs/features related to that
book. The BoD simply helps facilitate discussion between the teams so the team
leads can then decide who they want to assign to those tasks. This is a
volunteer project, so someone who is assigned to something doesn't have to do
it, but hopefully the volunteer will tackle it out of a desire to see book X
completed, or out of pity for the team lead! :)

This is an open source project, and as a community project, this means that
everyone is giving their time and talent to improve a product for the entire
PCGen audience. The BoD helps direct the project by providing groundrules and
policies to keep things running smoothly. In return for the volunteer's aid and
compliance with those policies, the BoD promises to make it's policies
transparent and fair as possible. This way there are no surprises for anyone on
any team. The BoD recognizes that it's policies aren't perfect, and is very
willing to accept suggestions!

http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Board_of_Directors

Where can I discuss PCGen and interact with the developers?
-----------------------------------------------------------

Generally speaking you can login to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen

You can check out the PCGen page from which you can view and post Messages. If
you have any questions about PCGen, that's the place to send your question. Most
of the developers hang out there on a regular basis, and a number of other very
involved non-developers are also available to answer any questions you might
have.

Where/How do I report Bugs or request features?
-----------------------------------------------

You can submit a bug either by posting a message to the yahoo group with [BUG]
in its title, or by going to Bug page at the JIRA site and entering a bug there
directly.  We commonly refer to the feature requests as FREQ for short, and you
can either post a message with [FREQ] in the title or enter it directly in the
JIRA site.  In both cases, the more detailed a bug/FREQ is, the more likely it
will be addressed in the near future.  We prefer FREQs be posted at the yahoo
group initially so others can help iron out any details or brainstorm on how to
improve the functionality.

* What do I need to run PCGen?
------------------------------

PCGen 5.10.2 (and above) requires JRE 1.5.0_11 (and above - this can be found at
http://www.java.com), which means it will run on any OS that supports that
version of Java.  Many of our installers now remove the need for you to worry
about installing Java.

What's available at the Yahoo site?
-----------------------------------

In the Files page there are a number of folders you should know about - there's
Campaign+Central folder where lots of user added Campaigns are available.
There's a folder for new character sheet templates that aren't included in the
standard releases, and there's a folder for Character PCG files when users have
problems that they need help diagnosing. Users who want to send in corrections
or updates to anything that's included in the official releases of PCGen should
upload those files to our JIRA system where one of us, including our very own
Portal to the Negative Plane, will make sure it gets included in the next
release.

Thanks, and welcome aboard!

Bryan McRoberts (Benevolent Dictator of PCGen), Karianna (Chair Monkey of the
BoD) and the Moderators

What errors do you see? And what path are you using?

--- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@...> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, a simple "make it executable" wasn't enough to get that
> to work for me.  I'm guessing it has to do with me using the non-default
> location for the program.  It probably wouldn't be too hard to tweak it,
> though.
>
> DS/DL
>
> On 3/3/2012 9:20 AM, FerretDave wrote:
> >
> > Just checked, in the windows distro there is a 'pcgen.sh', you should
> > be using that in linux, no need for scripting :-)
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi all;

Having a issue that I need to get an answer to.

In PCGen 5164 with the Alpha set core and advanced, as well as 3rd party
Psionics Unleashed data set added in as well.

Why are Half-Giants getting a +2 to their perception due to low light vision
when they do not have keen sensed as well. When half elves, elves, gnomes and
halflings all have low light vision and keen senses.

This seems like a coding issue, and if so I need to know how to fix it. If it is
not a coding issue I need to know where the justification and information  for
it is coming from, as well if this effects dark vision as well.

Thanks

Ursacor

I wrote the Psionics Unleashed datasets --- most of which was copied
from the existing XPH info.

When I make a half-giant in PCGen, I'm not getting a +2 to Perception.
I'm running 5.17.9, rather than 5.16.4, but the racial data file should
be the same, unless someone else made changes to it of which I am unaware.

Did you make the character as one race (with Keen Senses), then switch
to another race?  Sometimes the program doesn't remove abilities when
that is done.

If you can reproduce it consistently, please give me the steps you took
to do it (even if you think they're obvious).

Oh, one last question: 5.16.4 didn't come with Psionics Unleashed
built-in; where did you download the data set from?  (I'm wondering if
it's an older, buggy copy or something.)

DJL

On 3/5/2012 1:19 PM, ursacor123456789 wrote:
>
> Hi all;
>
> Having a issue that I need to get an answer to.
>
> In PCGen 5164 with the Alpha set core and advanced, as well as 3rd
> party Psionics Unleashed data set added in as well.
>
> Why are Half-Giants getting a +2 to their perception due to low light
> vision when they do not have keen sensed as well. When half elves,
> elves, gnomes and halflings all have low light vision and keen senses.
>
> This seems like a coding issue, and if so I need to know how to fix
> it. If it is not a coding issue I need to know where the justification
> and information for it is coming from, as well if this effects dark
> vision as well.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ursacor
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi folks,

The offender and post have both been removed..

Thread is closed.



On 3/5/2012 3:51 PM, Omowale Anthony wrote:
> 2nd'ed
>
> On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 4:53 PM, Luc Foisy <wolfdog@...> wrote:
>
>> Please get rid of this person
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Related Lists
>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
>> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
>> http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
>> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
>>
>>
>> PCGen List File Help:
>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
>>
>> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
>> (for new official data source development)
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Related Lists
> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
>
>
> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
>
> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
> (for new official data source development)
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am attempting to make a Commoner NPC, and they get 2 feats, plus one Simple
Weapon Proficiency (i.e. Spear or Dagger), but not the whole list of Simple
Weapons.

How would I add that to the existing class of Commoner, so I can correctly have
it listed for future reference?

I am new to PCGen, so just need a helpful nudge in the right direction. I have
tried to search here on the forums, but it appears that the search function has
been disabled.

Thanks in advance, guys/gals!

Soundwich

Hi Bubba,

Welcome to the pcgen community. Coding questions are best answered/asked over on
our List File Help
Group.

That said, I'm likely the one to answer the question anyways - :P

Which NPC class of Commoner are we asking about?
I have several game modes (3e, 35e, Pathfinder, Modern, Gaslight, and quite a
few more to be honest).

So, is this something that is not coded according to the rules and I need to fix
it, or is this a
custom class you are making?

Looking forward to your reply /follow up over on the List File Help.

Cheers,

On 3/5/2012 8:43 PM, Bubba wrote:
> I am attempting to make a Commoner NPC, and they get 2 feats, plus one Simple
Weapon Proficiency (i.e. Spear or Dagger), but not the whole list of Simple
Weapons.
>
> How would I add that to the existing class of Commoner, so I can correctly
have it listed for future reference?
>
> I am new to PCGen, so just need a helpful nudge in the right direction. I have
tried to search here on the forums, but it appears that the search function has
been disabled.
>
> Thanks in advance, guys/gals!
>
> Soundwich
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Related Lists
> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
> PCGen's Mailing Lists and Links:
http://wiki.pcgen.org/Mailing_Lists_and_PCGen_Links
> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
> PCGen's JIRA Tracker: http://jira.pcgen.org
>
>
> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
>
> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
> (for new official data source development)
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 3/4/2012 9:16 AM, FerretDave wrote:
>
> What errors do you see? And what path are you using?
>
I don't remember, and I don't remember.  :-)  My Ubuntu system is at
work, and I'm on vacation this week. :-)

A bit more seriously, I was doing this more as a proof-of-concept (can
you do a Windows install into Dropbox and use the program on a Linux
machine?); that laptop is slow enough that I wouldn't want to do any
actual PCGen work on it.  (Although, that new UI seems faster; maybe it
wouldn't be too slow with that.)

DJL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I noticed today that this version has Ultimate Combat listed under sources. So I
commented out my feats in homebrew for UC and loaded Ultimate Combat source
instead.

My human fighter archer 6 / ranger guide 2 has Point Blank & Weapon Focus
LongBow (taken at L1 fighter), Rapid Shot taken as Ranger bonus Feat at L4 (R2),
and Snap Shot at L6 (4F).

Yet PCGen has Snap Shot in red, implying the PreReqs are not met, and
Rapid Shot is also red, specifically "less than 1 Rapid Shot feat".  Is this a
circular issue? Taking Rapid Shot as a Ranger bonus feat adds it to the feats
list in pink.

These feats should not be red.

Win7 64-bit

I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler (non-proficient) has her
skills trashed.  This was NOT the case before, and does not make sense. 
Especially since I was told a rogue can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC
check should be 0. Why is it suddenly affecting SKILLs?

from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying
it."

5.1.7.10 Win7 64-bit

On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
> I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
> (non-proficient) has her skills trashed.  This was NOT the case
> before, and does not make sense.  Especially since I was told a rogue
> can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0. Why is
> it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
>
> from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
> carrying it."

That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
for using it non-proficiently.

Stefan.

A darkwood buckler has a 0 Armor Check penalty, so shouldn't penalize
skills.  (It also might technically be a light shield, but that's a
completely different matter.)

As a separate penalty, a regular buckler gives -1 to attack rolls to
weapons held in the same hand, except for bows and crossbows, but you
lose the buckler's AC bonus while doing so.

@pfsgamer: What version of PCGen are you using, and what datasets are
you loading?  (If you gave this information earlier, I've lost it.)

DS/DL

On 3/6/2012 12:37 PM, Stefan Radermacher wrote:
>
> On 06.03.2012 18:03, pfsgamer wrote:
> > I noticed today that an archer (rogue) using a buckler
> > (non-proficient) has her skills trashed. This was NOT the case
> > before, and does not make sense. Especially since I was told a rogue
> > can equip a buckler without penalty. The AC check should be 0. Why is
> > it suddenly affecting SKILLs?
> >
> > from the book: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while
> > carrying it."
>
> That means you don't get penalties to attack when using the bow, which
> has nothing to do with using skills. The armor check penalty still
> applies to alls Strength- and Dexterity-based skills. Such is the cost
> for using it non-proficiently.
>
> Stefan.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

Sorry for butting in, but my experiences with cross-platform, Dropbox
and PCGen may be of use.

I use linux systems by preference (laptop and Desktop), but other
members of the groups I play in use various versions of linux, Windows
or Macs. Dropbox is used to co-ordinate between machines/people.

The bottom line is that linux, Windows and Mac machines all happily
share character & portrait directories via Dropbox without problem and
I've recently started sharing homebrew datasets the same way.

The advice I give Windows users is to NOT use the win installer, but to
expand the .zip file into a suitable directory (OK, folder, dammit).
This way, it should be possible to use Dropbox to share the whole PCGen
- just unzip it into Dropbox. However, I'd probably recommend using the
scenario I use (ie unzip onto local hard disk on each machine, then
point the character & portrait files at Dropbox). That way, you can
tweak the bat/shell file to better suit the machine you're running on.

Pete

On 03/07/2012 02:04 AM, Doug Limmer wrote:
>
> On 3/4/2012 9:16 AM, FerretDave wrote:
> >
> > What errors do you see? And what path are you using?
> >
> I don't remember, and I don't remember. :-) My Ubuntu system is at
> work, and I'm on vacation this week. :-)
>
> A bit more seriously, I was doing this more as a proof-of-concept (can
> you do a Windows install into Dropbox and use the program on a Linux
> machine?); that laptop is slow enough that I wouldn't want to do any
> actual PCGen work on it. (Although, that new UI seems faster; maybe it
> wouldn't be too slow with that.)
>
> DJL
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Quoting Doug Limmer (adventure@...):
> A darkwood buckler has a 0 Armor Check penalty, so shouldn't penalize
> skills.  (It also might technically be a light shield, but that's a
> completely different matter.)

Stop! Armor Check penalty is the penalty which applies even if you are
proficient with the kind of armor. There is an additional (in this case for
sure, I don't know if the penalties stack) Armor Check penalty for using
pieces of armor without the proficiency, which is equal to the armor (or
shield) bonus granted by the piece of armor.

Hope that helps,

	 Susan

On 3/7/2012 4:24 AM, Susan Dittmar wrote:
>
> Stop!
>
Hammer Time!
>
> Armor Check penalty is the penalty which applies even if you are
> proficient with the kind of armor. There is an additional (in this
> case for
> sure, I don't know if the penalties stack) Armor Check penalty for using
> pieces of armor without the proficiency, which is equal to the armor (or
> shield) bonus granted by the piece of armor.
>
Do you have a source for that?  I've never heard of such a rule.

DS/DL



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