As before, I cannot guarantee the accuracy of this character. I have
none of my materials here with me this day, so I am going to have to
"wing-it." Most of Elias Rayne's "powers" will be from Vampire: the
Masquerade. (I wish I had the Werewolf book here, for that is more
appropriate to Elias...) Please note that all three of the characters
posted AUTOMATICALLY have the merits - Dual Nature, Gift of Magic,
Iron Will. They are all Cursed (according to what you believe)...

Buffy: the Vampire Slayer Character Sheet

Character Name: Elias Rayne
Nature: Poltroon/ Conniver
Demeanor: Connivor/ Deviant

Attributes:

Strength 2     Charisma 3       Perception 3
Dexterity 2    Manipulation 4   Intelligence 3
Stamina 2      Appearance 3/ 4  Wits 2

Abilities:

Demonology 3     Interrogation 2    Computers 1
Alertness 2      Intuition 2        Research 2
Brawl 2          Dodge 2            Melee 2
Firearms 1       Occult 5           Awareness 4
Bureaucracy 3    Investigation 2    Law 2
Acting 2         Expression 2       Lore: Vampire 1
Lore: Hidden 2   Stealth 2          Security 1

Virtues:

Instincts 3      Callousness 3
Path of Evil Revelations 6
Morale 2         Willpower 5

Backgrounds:

Resources 4     Allies 2     Contacts 4
Talismans 2     Library 2    Arcane 3

Magickal Paths Available:

Hell Gate* 3
Path of Weather Control 1
Movement of the Mind 1
Path of Corruption 1
Path of Secret Knowledge 1
Path of Phobos 1
Path of Discordia* 1
Path of Daimonion* 3
Path of Passions* 1

Merits:

Guardian Angel            Luck
Dark Faith (level 1)      Sorcerous Awareness
(probably more, but I don't have that kind of time...)

Flaws:

Hunted                    Demon-Hounded (2 point)
Cursed (always foiled by Rupert Giles)
Dark Centacle             Compulsion - Corruption
probably Taint of Corruption (7 pt. Werewolf)

add or change this sheet as you see fit.

Mark
aka
demonsreiche

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Please note, I will be using almost nothing but Vampiric Disciplines
for the abilities shown. Feel free to substitute the appropriate paths
from Gypsy, Sorcerer, and various internet Hedge Magick suppliments.

Buffy: the Vampire Slayer Character Sheet

Character Name: Willow Rosenberg
Nature: Caregiver/ Defender
Demeanor: Autist/ Confidant

Attributes:

Strength 2             Appearance 3
Dexterity 2            Charisma 2
Stamina 2              Manipulation 3/ 4
Intelligence 4         Perception 4
Wits 2

Abilities:

Occult 3               Awareness 3
Lore: Vampire 3        Lore: Sorcerer 3
Alertness 1            Acting 1
Expression 2           Crafts 2
Drive 1                Brawl 1
Dodge 2                Computers 3
Instruction 2          Interrogation 1
Subterfuge 1           Rituals 3
Intuition 2            Law 1
Bureaucracy 1          Research 3
(there may be more but I can't think of them)

Virtues:

Self-Control 3         Conscience 5
Road of Humanity 8
Courage 3              Willpower 6

Backgrounds:

Resources 3            Allies 2
Contacts 3             Destiny 3
Equipment 2            Library 2
Arcane 1*

Magickal Paths Available:

Path of Antimagick* 2
Path of Elemental Mastery 1
Movement of the Mind 1
Path of Conjuring 2
Spirit Thaumaturgy 2
Path of Dispelling* 1
Path of Irritation* 2
Draba 2 (found in the Gypsy book)
(those with * are internet paths)

Merits:

Concentration        Werewolf Companion
Innocent             Vampiric Ally (in first season)
True Love (not sure who this is yet...)

Flaws:

Weirdness Magnet     Low Self-Image
Timid                Arachnophobic (I think)

add what you will to this sheet.

Mark
aka
demonsreiche




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Greetings and salutations.

I thought that if we were going to create a FAQ for this place,
perhaps we should draw some ideas from the White Wolf World of
Darkness FAQ, the B. J. Zanzibar's World of Darkness FAQ, and the
original Great Minds Project FAQ (if it has one). That way, we do not
have to come up with a whole lot of answers on our own... especially
if they have already been covered elsewhere.

As for the Favourite Resources Listings, do you think we ought to
simply post them here, or actually work on a chain of e-mail slowly
evolving the list? If we used the second idea, there would probably be
a thread for discussing the choices made, as well as a thread FOR the
choices themselves.

Mark
aka
demonsreiche

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Ringmaster said:
> > As part of this new incarnation of the list, I've been thinking of things to
> > put together as part of a FAQ...
>
> My first thought is that the FAQ should not be about the list as much as it
> should be about the concept/project Great Minds.

	 Good point...  I've been a little limited in my thinking...
>
> perhaps a list of resources that might be effective for creating new stories,
> writing character sketches, or developing plots. ... for example, books by
> Anne Rice as inspiration for vampire chronicles.
>
> If I'm not mistaken, the purpose was to provide storyteller source material,
> be that complete/partial stories, NPC sketches, and maybe even inspirational
> reading.  Deciding which works to list would be entertaining...
>
	 Thant makes a fair bit of sense...  We'd need someone to volunteer
	 to record this info, as it gets posted...  I can see this exploding
 	 into an extended "Favorite sources" discussion...  Anyone want to
	 take this on?

	 Jason




--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace

> As part of this new incarnation of the list, I've been thinking of things to
> put together as part of a FAQ...

As usual, I'll throw in my $1.02...

My first thought is that the FAQ should not be about the list as much as it
should be about the concept/project Great Minds.

From that perspective, my comments are:

> This would topics like:
>
> The Mission Statement

Yes.

> Subscribing & Unsubscribing
> What is Egroups
> Changing Mailing Options
> Subject Tags

These could be covered in a "How do I access Great Minds Info?" section.  One
major subsection could refer to the "mailing list" as a method of accessing GM
info, and provide all the details of how to subscribe, change options, etc.

> The Great Minds Web Site
> Other (associated) Web Sites

This could be the "web sites" subsection of the aforementioned major section.

> Anything else that should be added?

Well, apart from dividing the FAQ up a little different, I would add a section
on what is of interest to Great Minds.  That is, what are we looking for? 
Characters, stories, new powers?

Just brainstorming - perhaps a list of resources that might be effective for
creating new stories, writing character sketches, or developing plots.  Or
something similar with regard to the World of Darkness, for example, books by
Anne Rice as inspiration for vampire chronicles.  Just to point newcomers in a
direction.

If I'm not mistaken, the purpose was to provide storyteller source material, be
that complete/partial stories, NPC sketches, and maybe even inspirational
reading.  Deciding which works to list would be entertaining...

Owen
ringmaster@...


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<PRE>
As part of this new incarnation of the list, I've been thinking of things to
put together as part of a FAQ...

This would topics like:

The Mission Statement
Subscribing & Unsubscribing
What is Egroups
Changing Mailing Options
Subject Tags
The Great Minds Web Site
Other (associated) Web Sites

Anything else that should be added?

Jason
jait@...
minds-owner@egroups.com

--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace
</PRE>

<PRE>
If you are reading messages via the web, eGroups attempts to present the
mesages with HTML formatting.... the end result is that all paragraph marks
are effectively ignored.

I really prefer my messages in plain text.  If you are making postings to
the blood or seavan pbem lists, please use the  < PRE > and < /PRE > tags
(with no spaces betwene the beaks and the tag. I can't do it properly here,
or it'll be taken as a command). Please put these at either end of your
message.  This will guarantee that it can be read effectively via the web.

If you are making postings to the Great Minds distribution list, use your
own discretion.  If you post HTML formatted messages to the list, I think
eGroups tries to strip the HTML formatting from the mesage for those who have
specified reading plain ascii.  I could be wrong about this.

Cheers,

Jason
--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace
</PRE>

<PRE>
If you are reading messages via the web, eGroups attempts to present the
mesages with HTML formatting.... the end result is that all paragraph marks
are effectively ignored.

I really prefer my messages in plain text.  If you are making postings to
the blood or seavan pbem lists, please put the <PRE> and </PRE> tags at
either end of your message, like so:

<PRE>
I agree with what Jason said...

--Albany
</PRE>

This will guarantee that it can be read effectively via the web.  If you are
making postings to the Great Minds distribution list, use your own discretion.

If you post HTML formatted messages to the list, I think eGroups tries
to strip the HTML formatting from the mesage for those who have specified
reading plain ascii (like I have).

Cheers,

Jason
--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace
</PRE>

Oscar van Vliet said:
> It said somewhere in the introduction I could configure my own subscription
> options.. How do I do this?

using any internet browser (I've done it on IE3.02, IE4, Netscape
Communicator, and Linux Lynx), go to: http://www.egroups.com

You will be presented with a screen prompting you for your Registered (egroups)
Users information (email & password).

REGISTERING WITH EGROUPS
========================
If you do not have an account already set up with egroups, you will need to
set one up in order to change your mail options for any list hosted by egroups.
If you do have an account already set up, skip to CHANGING OPTIONS.

Click/select "Register" a for a FREE eGroups.com account.

You will then be presented with a screen prompting you for your email address. 
Enter the address to which you have subscribed to the list. When done, Click/
Select "Continue."  At this point, a validation number will be emailed to
the email account you specified.  You will need this validation number

You will be presented with a screen entitled, "Completing Registration..."
which will prompt you for your validation number, your name, postal code
and password (twice for verification).  Click/Select the "Continue" button.

You will then be presented with a screen that has a list of all the egroups
mailing lists you are subscribed to under this address.


CHANGING OPTIONS
================

Your mailing-list summary screen will list the eGroups mailing lists you are
participating in.  It will look something like this:

eGroups Name.........New Messages...................Mode
========================================================
<blood>......................<37>...................<Web>
<minds>.......................<4>...................<Email>

The elements in the angular brakcets (<>) are hyper links.

Clicking on a list name in the eGroups Name column wil ltake you to the
list description page.  Clicking on the numbers in the "New Messages" column
will display a menu of all messages in the mailing list.  Clicking on
an item in the "Mode" column allows you to change your list options.

For instance, clicking on "Email" above, will present you with a new screen
that will give the following information:

Group Information:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Subscription Policy: Public  (set by the moderator)
Access Policy: Public (set by the moderator)
Member Since: 12/10/98 (date you joined up with the list)
Subscription Preferences:
E-Mail Address: jait@... (your email address woud be here.)

Options you can change:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Should your profile be visible to members of this group?  <YES/NO>

Receive HTML e-mail? <YES/NO>
(if you select no, HTML code will be stripped from the email)

Read Mode:
<Read it On the Web - (read it via the browser, only)
Individual E-mails - (receive each email as its' received by the list)
Daily Summary Digest - (receive a summary (??) of messages posted that day)
Daily Full Digest - (receive a digest of all posted messages that day)>


Once you're finished setting your options, Click/Select the "Apply Changes"
button.  Once your preferences have been applied, you will start receiving
your list messages in the format you've specified.

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Cheers,

Jason
jait@...
(minds-owner@egroups.com)


--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace

<PRE>
1) Introduction
The Great Minds project was started to provide original net-material by and
for fans of the World of Darkness, the role-playing universe(s) created by
White Wolf Game Studios.

The original incarnation of the list resided on netcom.com.  However, the
list became an orphaned list--a list without a moderator--and was operating
without technical support.

This list is a place where material can be published and/or discussed
as it related to the development of chronicle information or chronicle
supplements.  The games included are Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Vampire: The
Masquerade, Mage: The Ascension, Wraith: The Oblivion, and Changeling: The
Dreaming, and all associated variations.  This list does not focus on the
other game lines produced by white-wolf (i.e., Trinity and Streetfighter).


2)  On Disputes
We post our work for a number of reasons--to give something back to the net, to
garnish the praise and adoration of the list-members, and to work out problems
with our work.  Constructive Criticism is always welcome.  However, we are
all passionate about our work, and occasionally, arguments erupt.  This is
not a bad thing.

When these arguments become destructive or counter-productive to the purpose
of the list, the moderator(s) will ask the participants in the argument
to take it to personal mail.  Be aware that the list is currently set up
so that replies to postings will go to the entire list-- not the originator
of the post!

If the argument continues, the moderator(s) will discuss what to do about
the situation... options include bumping the participants from the list,
overiding the list settings to moderate those posters, or changing
the nature of the list so that the moderator(s) approval is required before
joining the list.  Obviously, we don't want to do any of these, and we
ferevently hope this situation won't come up.



3) On Receiving Mail from the List
On the list web-page (http://www.egroups.com/list/minds) you can subscribe,
unsubscribe, read mail, and set your options for reading mail on this list
(if you have a free eGroups account).  Some of the options for reading mail
include: reading individual messages, reading daily summary digests, reading
daily full digests, or reading it on the web-site.

If you're going away for a few days, a few weeks, whatever, you can change the
options to reading it on the web, and limit the number of messages in your
inbox when you return home.

Please see the List FAQ (currently being developed) for more information on
setting list options.


4) On the Use of Subject-Keys
Due to the nature of some of the content that might come up in this list,
the use of subject-keys are recommended.  A subject-key is a word
or two that identify and categorize the nature of the message.  The
following subnject-keys are recommended:

ADULT = for adult-oriented material...,
CONTENT = Postings of Chronicle information...
DISCUSSION = discussion posts...

For further clarification, the following keys might be used (these will
help the web-maintainer):

WEREWOLF = for werewolf-specific posts,
MAGE = for mage-specific posts,
VAMPIRE = for vampire-speciifc posts,
WRAITH = for wraith-specific posts,
CHANGELING = for changeling-specific posts,
POTPORRI = for crossover posts,

The only subject-key that we will actually moan and complain about is the
use of the ADULT subject key.


5) On Adult postings
There are many subscribers to the Great Minds List, and the age-range is
probably quite wide.  For this reason, we encourage the use of the ADULT
subject-key.  Posts that include adult content should also have a one-line
warning at the beginning of the post--something like:

	 This material contains violent or offensive material.

If you suspect that you might be offended by adult postings, the use of the
ADULT subject-key and the one-line warning at the top of the file should
constitute enough warning to allow you to move to the next message.


6) On In-Character and Out-Of-Character (IC and OOC) Posts
This list is not a MU**.  It is not an in-character list, and does not support
the existence of on-going discussions/role-playing in an in-character context.
Please keep your role-playing separate from this list.

If you have any questions about the list or the list policies, please send
email to minds-owner@egroups.com and expect a day or two turn-around. We
will attempt to answer every email either directly or via the list.


7) On Other lists
There exist other mailing-lists for specific game-lines.  You can send
a "list" command to listserv@... to receive a list of
all mailing-lists hosted by that list-server.  I know of five lists that
it hosts:

Werewolf-L - for Werewolf: The Apocalypse
Mage-L - for Mage: The Ascension
Vampire-L - for Vampire: The Masquerade
Wraith-L - for Wraith: The Oblivion
Changeling-L - for Changeling: The Dreaming

I believe there might be a list of street-fighter and trinity as well.
These lists are the proper places to ask rules-specific questions regarding
these lines.

I think there's also a new list at white-wolf.com that gives industry-specific
news for white wolf, but I can't remember the subscription info...  I'll
track it down this weekend and post it.


8) On Moderator's Style
The moderators of this list see themselves as trouble-shooters.  If the
list is going well, why fix it?  You should only see us in an administrative
capacity if there is a problem.  This might be an interpersonal conflict,
where we encouragethe participants to take it offline, or a technical problem,
where we try to figure out whats gone wrong, and how to fix it.

--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace

Ringmaster said:
> CONTENT was my suggestion for an actual character or story, as opposed to a
> DISCUSSION.  However, we could make the assumption that any message without
> a CONTENT (or whatever we'll use) tag is part of a discussion.  Only because
> we have more of that, here.  ;)

	 That makes sense.  I'd like to avoid multiple tags, though... reading
	 a subject like

	 Re:[minds][DISCUSSION][ADULT][WERE] ZhyZhax's personal problems...

	 would get a little trying after a while...  I think the tags (with
	 the possible exception of ADULT) should maybe focus on the primary
	 reason for the posting...

> >  Any and all comments/suggestions are welcome...
>
> I'm sure I'll come up with something else to annoy yall.

	 Good. it needs work.  I know that.

	 Cheers,

	 jason

	 will repost the statement in a sec...


--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace

> [XOVER:WW,V,M,MORTAL][CONTENT][GROUP]: The Scourge of Ra'Na'Hek..

Gah!  I like the "short" idea.



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I've been cooking this idea in my head for a Werewolf chronicle, and I figured
I'd just toss my preliminary thoughts out on the list to see what you think of
it and maybe receive some suggestions/fill in some details.  There are a lot of
details missing, but my primary concern until this point has been plot.

The PCs should not be well experienced (rank 1 or less).  I prefer same-tribe
wolves, but I'm sure my players will convince me otherwise.

The chronicle begins in a caern outside a small city.  For the purposes of the
game I will actually run and for making this concise (yeah, right) we'll call it
Harrisburg.  The type of caern and characters who live there are not yet
decided.

The sept leader requests a meeting with Teeth-of-Saws, a 3rd rank lupus NPC of
an as-of-yet undetermined tribe.  Teeth has been on several failed missions
against the minions of the Wyrm lately, and he is feeling the pull of harano. 
In an attempt to fetch Teeth from the spiral, the elder gives him an impressive
chore - Some wolves in town have spied leeches feeding on the human populous and
they must be vanquished.

Although the task sounds impressive, it is actually a simple one.  The elder
knows that the 2 vampires will be easily dispatched because they are weak and
operating on their own.  He knows that Teeth has been down because of his recent
losses and, rather than lose a once-glorious warrior to harano, he assigns him
this task.

In addition, Teeth must raid the club where these vampires feed (why always a
club?) with a pack of newly-trained cubs (the PCs).  In this way, the elder
expects him to foster a sense of why the fight is worth it in both himself and
the new pack.

The PCs may find out about this meeting through rumors in the caern.  They may
choose to spy on Teeth after the meeting and gather this information from his
cynical mumblings.  Obviously, he is not anxious to lose another mission.

The night after the meeting, the PCs and Teeth-of-Saws head for the city.

Recon of the bar (unnamed) shows only two possible suspects.  One of them should
make an obvious feeding within view of the wolves.  Teeth will caution them to
keep from attacking immediately, erroneously pointing out mortals as
vampiric/ghouled guards.  Seeing enemies everywhere being a sign of his
depression.

They wait until the vamps leave through an unguarded rear exit to make their
attack.  A chase should ensue.

Here is the focal point of this scene: When the vampires deftly escape the
wolves around the corner of a building and are momentarily out of view, the PCs
hear a loud sound.  Something like canvas tearing.

When they round the corner themselves, they are treated to a lovely sight.  The
two prey have been attacked.  Their bloody corpses are staked to the brick wall
by both hands, both feet and the heart.  And you can tell the stake goes through
the heart because the vampire's skin has been torn open and pulled back like a
dissection.  The stink of rotten flesh and pools of lost blood may cause frenzy.

Carved into the vampire's skin are distinct, almost alphabetic markings.  These
markings and the nearly undiscernable scent of something strange are the only
clues as to the vampire's demise.  Only the usual coterie of banes inhabits the
umbra here, which is to say, many.

What happens immediately next is unclear because it hinges on the player's
ability to concoct reasons for the events.  This time should offer a lot of room
for roleplay, and should present a significant amount of fear for the players. 
At least, Teeth could offer something like, "What manner of creature can
overtake two vampires in this way in that short of time?  What manner of
creature would do THIS, even to a vampire?"

I should mention at this point that the PCs will NEVER see the face of that
creature.  They will only be followed by its shadow and attempt to prevent its
next strike.  My concept here is that the illusion of an evil presence is much
more frightening/envigorating than rolling dice all evening trying to kill a
Nexus Crawler.  Which is not what this thing is anyway.

If the PCs don't come up with the notion to burn the bodies, Teeth will.  He
will also do everything he can to convince the players to stay in the city and
not to get help.  After all, this would mean just another failure for him. 
Perhaps as the PCs find a place to stay the day, he could confess to the most
sympathetic one of them his feelings about not being able to stop this
unyielding force - the Wyrm.  (The theme of the story, afterall.)

Ok, Act 2.

The PCs find somewhere in the city to stay (maybe they live in the city, who
knows...) and arrange to meet the next evening in a public place to go back to
hunt the guards, who would obviously know someone has come for them.

All of the PCs arrive within reasonable proximity of the meeting time.  Teeth is
a no-show.

One of the PCs will notice something strange.  A homeless man wearing a
familiar-looking garment.  Yeah, it's Teeth-of-Saws.  His pelt has been taken. 
Check for frenzy and see who kills the homeless man before he's questioned.  The
pelt is still warm and dripping blood.  If removed from the man (before they
tear him to shreds), the PCs will note markings carved into the bare back of the
homeless man similar to the ones on the vampires from the night before.  He is
completely incoherent.

Someone should touch the markings.  Be it in rage or in curiosity, contact
should be made.  If not, come up with some other reason for it to happen.  When
this happens, the wolf enters a kind of stupor (and leaves frenzy).  Their mind
is cloudy and they feel as if they have been telepathed a message:

I am the Zah-Sher-Say
I am the unseen evil
Our force comes to destroy
You will fight for us
The Father will nullify any opposition
Order will fail

Anyone familiar with BotW knows who the Father is.  The PC affected has become
cursed and (at least for the duration of the chronicle) will be affected by the
flaw Cursed.  They will occasionally see flashes of visions and sounds similare
to those in the telepathic message.  If you are interested, I have recorded a
sound file that has these words mixed to sound rather creepy.

During the vision, the PC gets an image of an intense fire.  The view backs away
from the fire to see a female child cowering in the corner of the room away from
the flames.  The angle backs out the window to an outside view of smoke pouring
out of the building.  Then, as if warped back in time, the vision moves back
into the building.  The flames go in reverse, the girl stands up, un-screams,
and goes back to un-playing with her doll.  The view pans around the room to see
the fire creep back down the curtains and into the spark flying from the
overloaded electrical outlet.  Then the PC snaps out of the haze.

Hopefully there's enough commotion to let some time pass.  If not, just step up
the pace a little.  Across the way from wherever they decide to meet stands the
building in the PC's vision.

The building is not yet on fire, and if that PC can be convincing enough to get
his comrades to listen to his crazed clairvoyance, he might have a chance to
save the girl.


Well, I've got to get some other work done.  I'll continue with the next post on
how the PCs will be able to track down and deal with the Zah-Sher-Say, and why
saving the little girl is only serving the evil purposes of the Wyrm. (Heh,
heh.)

Please comment, I'm anxious to get some feedback!

Owen
ringmaster@...
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According to Jason W. Tice:

I must have joined in the two seconds after the statement was posted..
care to repost (or mail it to me)?

> > Two things...
> > 1) Potpourri

[MISC]

> > 2) Can there be a DISCUSSION tag and a CONTENT (?) tag?  It would be
> >    easier for people who are sifting through this info for the web site.

[DISCUSS] or even just [TALK]... maybe [COMMENT]

>  Makes a lot of sense to me...  Sure, I'll add them.  CONTENT
>  would be what exactly?  Would it be better to go with [CONTENT
>  & DISCUSSION] instead of the game-specific tags?  I ask this
>  simply because I can think of a few things that might involve
>  more than one species... (Vampire/Werewolf conflict, for
>  instance)...

Anything that involves multiple genre could be [XOVER].

The main thing with this IMHO is to keep them *short*...  instead of
full games put [WW] [V] [M] [Wr] [CH]/[C]/[CL] except in special cases
like [MUMMY] [MORTAL], etc..  And what about specific groups?  Like
[CLAN] [TRIBE] [TRADN] ...

And others?  [STORY] [POEM] [PICTURE] (?) [OUTLINE] [IDEA] [PLOT]
[CHARACTER]/[CHAR]/[CHR] [GROUP] [PLACE] etc...

and time?  [WW:WW] [V:TDA] etc..

Genre tags might be a bit much, though, because I could easily see a subject
line like:

[XOVER:WW,V,M,MORTAL][CONTENT][GROUP]: The Scourge of Ra'Na'Hek..

`Course, that's not entirely that bad, come to think of it...

(I'll shut up now until I can see the statement of policies, to make
sure I'm not just saying what's already been said...)

the encaffeinated ONE
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>  Makes a lot of sense to me...  Sure, I'll add them.  CONTENT
>  would be what exactly?  Would it be better to go with [CONTENT
>  & DISCUSSION] instead of the game-specific tags?  I ask this
>  simply because I can think of a few things that might involve
>  more than one species... (Vampire/Werewolf conflict, for
>  instance)...

CONTENT was my suggestion for an actual character or story, as opposed to a
DISCUSSION.  However, we could make the assumption that any message without a
CONTENT (or whatever we'll use) tag is part of a discussion.  Only because we
have more of that, here.  ;)

I do believe, though, that the genre tags are very useful.  Should we simply say
that use of the genre tags implies "content"?  If that's what you meant in the
Policy, my belabored mind didn't catch it.

>  Nope.  I can't stand the idea that anyone might think we're
>  actually literate (yeah, I'll check it over...).

Cool.

>  Any and all comments/suggestions are welcome...

I'm sure I'll come up with something else to annoy yall.

Owen
ringmaster@...



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> Two things...
> 1) Potpourri
> 2) Can there be a DISCUSSION tag and a CONTENT (?) tag?  It would be
>    easier for people who are sifting through this info for the web site.

	 Makes a lot of sense to me...  Sure, I'll add them.  CONTENT
	 would be what exactly?  Would it be better to go with [CONTENT
	 & DISCUSSION] instead of the game-specific tags?  I ask this
	 simply because I can think of a few things that might involve
	 more than one species... (Vampire/Werewolf conflict, for
	 instance)...

> I'm assuming that since it's preliminary someone will check spelling
   and grammar on the mission statement before it's set in stone.

	 Nope.  I can't stand the idea that anyone might think we're
	 actually literate (yeah, I'll check it over...).

	 Any and all comments/suggestions are welcome...

	 Jason

--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace

> 4) On the User of Subject-Keys
>
> Due to the nature of some of the content that might come up in this list,
> the use of subject-keys are recommended.  A subject-key is a word
> or two that identify and categorize the nature of the message.  The
> following subnject-keys are recommended:
>
> ADULT = for adult-oriented material...,
> WEREWOLF = for werewolf-specific posts,
> MAGE = for mage-specific posts,
> VAMPIRE = for vampire-speciifc posts,
> WRAITH = for wraith-specific posts,
> CHANGELING = for changeling-specific posts,
> POTPORRI = for crossover posts,

Two things...
1) Potpourri
2) Can there be a DISCUSSION tag and a CONTENT (?) tag?  It would be easier for
people who are sifting through this info for the web site.

I'm assuming that since it's preliminary someone will check spelling and grammar
on the mission statement before it's set in stone.

Owen
ringmaster@...


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As an adjunct to my previous posting, this is Albany Allovich, the corax,
as a starting character...

      Name: Albany Allovich (Al)      Breed: Corvid       Nature: Judge
    Player: Jason W. Tice              Camp:            Demeanor: Fanatic
      Rank: One           Geographic Region: Canadian    Concept: Wanderer

================================ Attributes ====================================
             Physical 3                   Social 5                   Mental 7
  Strength....(2) **OOO      Charisma....(3) ***OO    Perception....(5) *****
Dexterity....(2) **OOO Manipulation....(3) ***OO  Intelligence....(3) ***OO
   Stamina....(2) **OOO   Appearance....(2) **OOO          Wits....(2) **OOO

================================= Abilities ====================================

                          PRIMARY SKILLS (FROM W:TA)

                 Talents 13                 Skills 5                 Knowledge 9
     Alertness....(2) **OOO  Animal Ken....( ) OOOOO       Computer....(-) OOOOO
     Athletics....(1) *OOOO        Drive...( ) OOOOO        Enigmas....(1) OOOOO
         Brawl....(-) OOOOO    Etiquette...( ) OOOOO  Investigation....(1) OOOOO
         Dodge....(1) **OOO     Firearms...( ) OOOOO            Law....(-) OOOOO
       Empathy....(2) *OOOO        Melee...( ) OOOOO    Linguistics....(3) OOOOO
    Expression....(1) *OOOO   Leadership...( ) OOOOO       Medicine....(-) OOOOO
  Intimidation....(-) OOOOO  Performance...( ) OOOOO         Occult....( ) OOOOO
   Primal Urge....(3) ***OO       Repair...(2) **OOO       Politics....(1) OOOOO
    Streetwise....(-) OOOOO      Stealth...(-) OOOOO        Rituals....(2) OOOOO
    Subterfuge....(-) OOOOO     Survival...(1) *OOOO        Science....(-) OOOOO

                  SECONDARY SKILLS (FROM WWPG & CORAX BOOK)

   Instruction....(2) **OOO     Archery....( ) OOOOO Area Knowledge....(1) OOOOO
       Mimicry....( ) OOOOO Demolitions....( ) OOOOO      Herbalism....(-) OOOOO
      Swimming....(1) *OOOO    Disguise....( ) OOOOO        Poisons....(-) OOOOO
Ventriloquism....( ) OOOOO  Escapology....(2) **OOO  Sign Language....(-) OOOOO
        Flight....(3) ***OO   Fast-Draw....( ) OOOOO      Wyrm Lore....(1) OOOOO
                              Hypnotism....( ) OOOOO   Cryptography....(-) OOOOO
                             Meditation....( ) OOOOO     Navigation....(2) OOOOO
                                 Gossip....(2) OOOOO


================================= Advantages ===================================

Backgrounds:       Gifts:                          Other:       Reknown:
  Umbral Map: (4)   (1) Enemy Ways                   Rage: (2)    Glory: 0
       Rites: (5)   (1) Word Beyond             Willpower: (6)    Honor: 1
   Resources: (2)   (1) Raven's Gleaning           Gnosis: (7)   Wisdom: 2
     Contact: (1)


============================= Merits & Flaws ===================================

        Merits:                             Flaws:
        +3 Luck                             -2 Curiosity
        +2 Double Draught                   -1 Overconfidant
                                            -1 Birdlike Mannerisms

=================================== Rites ======================================

1 Rite of Talisman Dedication (I can take stuff into the umbra with me!)
2 Rite of Suns Bright Ray (I can make sunlight!)
2 Rite of Becoming (I can go deeeep into the umbra!)

============================= Freebie Points ===================================

   15 Freebie points - 5 Merits + 4 Flaws = 14 Freebie points

14 Freebie Points spent on:
Add background - Rites at 5 - 1 per dot * 5                 5 pts     9 left
Increase willpower (3-->6) 1 per dot * 3                    3 pts     6 left
Increase Gnosis (6-->7) 2 per dot * 1                       2 pts     4 left
Increase Rage (1-->2) 1 per dot * 1                         1 pt      3 left
Add ability - Rituals at level 1 - 2 per dot * 1            2 pts     1 left

=============================== Backgrounds ====================================

Umbral Map (4)
His knowledge and understanding of the velvet shadow--the umbra--is wonderful.
He knows at least a few safe routes through the umbra, and can find out a
lot more.  He knows where the safe places are, and a fair bit about how to
lure the nasty things into places where visitors aren't welcome.

Rites (5)
As the garou rites

Resources (2)
As the garou resources  - would have an apartment, $8000 if liquidated,
allowance of $1200/mo.

Contact (1)
One contact of relative knowledge/connections

================================= Gifts =======================================

Level One Gifts
===============

Enemy Ways (level 1)
(Perception + Stealth)
Allows him to tell what kind and how many enemies (well, i imagine people
in general) are in the area

Word Beyond (level 1)
1) (Wits + Expression, target 6)
This allows him to leave messages in the umbra, using whatever is handy.  The
message is usally in the form of a glyph or two...
2) (Perception + Occult, target 7)
This allows him to read  messages left in the umbra via the same method.

Raven's Gleaning (Level 1)
(1 pt gnosis, Perception + Subterfuge, target 5)
This gift allows him to judge the value of certain shiny objects... to
tell if it's worth stealing.  1 success gives a yes/no, more gives him
an idea of craftsmanship, composition, worth, etc.


================================== Skill Notes  ===============================

High Skills:

Languages he speaks are:
Russian, English, Spanish.  You just can't gossip if you can't speak their
language.  The Corax language is conferred
immediately upon the corax' first change.


Area Knowledges (that might be relevant to this game--ie. on earth):
Moscow (4) - Albany grew up in Moscow... first as a bird, then, later, as a
Corax. Its the area he's most likely to call home.  Close to 30 years there.
He associated the Corax society there, and spent a lot of time with a
small coven of Verbena.


============================= Rites ============================================
1 Rite of Talisman Dedication (I can take stuff into the umbra with me!)
2 Rite of Suns Bright Ray (I can make sunlight!)
2 Rite of Becoming (I can go deeeep into the umbra!)

================================ Corax Status =================================

Gaining Reknown:
Here's the basic run down of how the corax assign reknown.  Since the corax
are incorrigible gossips, word will get around, and the corax in question
will come to a parliament (to find a space reserved for him a little higher
up in the tree (more important than you think... less payload reception).
Of course, if Helios objects, the sky might cloud over suddenly... and the
corax will quickly retract their offer of reknown...

Wisdom
1) Get information fast (old intel is useless)
2) Get it right (bad intel is worse)
3) Get out safely (if you're dead, who cares what info you had?)

Honor
1) If you're going to do it, do it all the way (nothing worse than pullin out
    half-way)
2) Get witnesses (it's better to guarantee there's no misinterpretation by
    those who weren't there)
3) Don't do it unless you're sure (a selfless act done for selfish reasons
    isn't selfless.  don't do it unless you know your motives are right)

Glory
1) Only fight when you have to (we're scouts, not infantry)
2) Fight to win (if you lose, you're dead. noone at your funeral will care
    if you fought by the rules)
3) No second chances (if you have a chance to kill an opponent, do it.  If
    you don't he may appear in your future...)



--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace

<PRE>
Here's a character I'm playing in a pbem...  I've been interested in playing
older characters for some time--not necessarily more powerful characters,
but ones that are towards the end of their life... their expereince points,
for instance, go to keeping and maintaining their skills, not adding new
ones.  Degradation of body and mind can be a terrible thing...

Albany is over 60 years old, and starting to feel his age.  He's brusque,
cantankerous, and speaks his mind.  He loves language, and loves travelling,
but sometimes lacks the social mores to fit in among the more refined.
The point-allocations are NOT starting character level (that post will be
next).


      Name: Albany Allovich (Al)      Breed: Corvid       Nature: Instructor
    Player: Jason W. Tice              Camp:            Demeanor: Judge
      Rank: Three         Geographic Region: N. America  Concept: Wanderer

================================ Attributes ====================================
             Physical 4                   Social 5                   Mental 7
  Strength....(2) **OOO      Charisma....(3) ***OO    Perception....(5) *****
Dexterity....(2) **OOO Manipulation....(3) ***OO  Intelligence....(3) ***OO
   Stamina....(3) ***OO   Appearance....(2) **OOO          Wits....(2) **OOO

================================= Abilities ====================================

                          PRIMARY SKILLS (FROM W:TA)

                 Talents 18                Skills 13                Knowledge 23
     Alertness....(3) ***OO  Animal Ken....(1) *OOOO       Computer....(-) OOOOO
     Athletics....(-) OOOOO        Drive...(-) OOOOO        Enigmas....(2) **OOO
         Brawl....(-) OOOOO    Etiquette...(1) *OOOO  Investigation....(2) **OOO
         Dodge....(2) **OOO     Firearms...(-) OOOOO            Law....(-) OOOOO
       Empathy....(3) ***OO        Melee...(2) **OOO    Linguistics....(3) ***OO
    Expression....(2) **OOO   Leadership...(2) **OOO       Medicine....(-) OOOOO
  Intimidation....(-) OOOOO  Performance...(-) OOOOO         Occult....(2) **OOO
   Primal Urge....(3) ***OO       Repair...(-) OOOOO       Politics....(2) **OOO
    Streetwise....(-) OOOOO      Stealth...(2) **OOO        Rituals....(4) ****O
    Subterfuge....(1) *OOOO     Survival...(2) **OOO        Science....(-) OOOOO

                  SECONDARY SKILLS (FROM WWPG & CORAX BOOK)

   Instruction....(3) ***OO     Archery....(-) OOOOO Area Knowledge....(4) ****O
       Mimicry....(-) OOOOO Demolitions....(-) OOOOO      Herbalism....(-) OOOOO
      Swimming....(1) *OOOO    Disguise....(-) OOOOO        Poisons....(-) OOOOO
Ventriloquism....(-) OOOOO  Escapology....(2) **OOO  Sign Language....(2) **OOO
        Flight....(4) ****O   Fast-Draw....(-) OOOOO      Wyrm Lore....(2) **OOO
                              Hypnotism....(-) OOOOO   Cryptography....(3) ***OO
                             Meditation....(1) *OOOO     Navigation....(3) ***OO
                                 Gossip....(3) ***OO Area Knowledge....(3) ***OO
                                                     Area Knowledge....(1) *OOOO
                                                     Area Knowledge....(1) *OOOO


================================= Advantages ===================================

Backgrounds:       Gifts:                          Other:       Reknown:
  Umbral Map: (4)   (1) Enemy Ways                   Rage: (4)    Glory: 1
       Rites: (5)   (1) Word Beyond             Willpower: (6)    Honor: 4
   Resources: (2)   (1) Raven's Gleaning           Gnosis: (7)   Wisdom: 8
      Allies: (2)   (1) Open Seal                                  Rank: Ales (3)
    Contacts: (4)   (2) Carrion's Call
   Past Life: (2)   (2) Sky's Beneficience
                    (2) Swallow's Return
                    (2) Razor Feathers
                    (3) Dead Talk
                    (3) Hummingbird's Dart
                    (3) Sun's Guard


============================= Merits & Flaws ===================================

Merits:
+3 Luck (things seem to go his way)
+2 Double Draught  (he can pluck both eyes from a corpse to see the bestn and
    worst of that person's life - most corax can only pull from one eye, telling
    either the best or worst of the corpses life)
+1 Code of Honor

Flaws:
-2 Curiosity
-1 Overconfident
-1 Birdlike Mannerisms
-2 Enemy?


=============================== Backgrounds ====================================

Umbral Map (4)
His knowledge and understanding of the velvet shadow--the umbra--is wonderful.
He knows at least a few safe routes through the umbra, and can find out a
lot more.  He knows where the safe places are, and a fair bit about how to
lure the nasty things into places where visitors aren't welcome.

Rites (5)
As the garou rites

Resources (2)
As the garou resources  - would have an apartment, $8000 if liquidated,
allowance of $1200/mo.

Allies (2)
- Prince Johnathan Renfield, Kindred Prince of Toronto  (Albany saved his
unlife when the riots hit Toronto after the fall of the Non-agression pact)
- Dmitri, Verbena, Moscow.  Dmitriis a fromer KGB agent, now Russian ambassador
to Poland.  Dmitri has some strange theories on the nature of time...

Contacts (4)
All over the place--but primarily in the places he spent a lot of time in.

Past Life (2)
Albany knows he was in New Orleans before... that's why he went there in
this life.  He was unsatisfied with his lack of success in finding out
who he was in his past life... and he can't very well call up his own
dead spirit...  He also has flashes of faces and places in Japan... hence
the reason he's there now...

================================= Gifts =======================================

Level One Gifts
===============

Enemy Ways (level 1)
(Perception + Stealth)
Allows him to tell what kind and how many enemies (well, i imagine people
in general) are in the area

Word Beyond (level 1)
1) (Wits + Expression, target 6)
This allows him to leave messages in the umbra, using whatever is handy.  The
message is usally in the form of a glyph or two...
2) (Perception + Occult, target 7)
This allows him to read  messages left in the umbra via the same method.

Raven's Gleaning (Level 1)
(1 pt gnosis, Perception + Subterfuge, target 5)
This gift allows him to judge the value of certain shiny objects... to
tell if it's worth stealing.  1 success gives a yes/no, more gives him
an idea of craftsmanship, composition, worth, etc.

Open Seal (as per the ragabash gift) (level 1)
(roll gnosis, difficulty of gauntlet)

Level Two Gifts
===============
Carrion Call (Level 2)
(roll perception + empathy, target 6)
This gift allows the corax to devine whether there is a fresh corpse nearby.
If so, he will hear the Carrion call, and MUST attend the corpse to perform
the nigh-sacred duties...  He has up to 24 hoursin which to do so, or Raven
will punish him for dewreliction of duty, by stripping a point of permanent
honor.  The dead's story MUST be preserved. (certain fomori have been known
to kill innocents in order to lure Corax to their doom...)

Sky's Beneficience (Level 2)
(roll perception + melee, target 7)
This gift allows the corax to drop a payload (it need not be excrement) with
extreme precision.  Of course, he needs to see his target drop-zone, and be
fully airborne at the time.  However, he automatically takes into accounto
prevailing winds, updrafts, etc... so the difficulty is ALWAYS 7.

Swallow's Return (level 2)
(roll wits+empathy, target 6)
Sometimes, the corax is too tired or injured ot navigate his way back
home, (through the umbra, across the skies)...  when this happens, he
invokes this gift... which acts as an autopilot...

Razor Feathers (level 2)
(spend a gnosis & rolls stamina, target 6)
This gift causes the hardening of the feathers on the edge of the wings,
allowing them to parry knives or claws... or cut through flesh, if necessary.
The number of successes determines how long the effect holds.

Level Three Gifts
==================

Dead Talk (level 3)
(roll perception + occult, target 8)
Sometimes, eating eyes won't give you the whole picture...  so, this gift
allows a brief conversation with the dead's spirit.  It allows a chance to
get a few straight answers, while on the trail of the story.

Hummingbird's Dart (level 3)
(spend 1 rage, roll Dexterity + Melee, target 5)
Used most often with Razor Feathers, this gift allows the corax to pluck
one of its' own feathers, and throw it like a dart. The feather flies true,
unencumbered by anything so paltry as the laws of physics.  The thrown feather
generally does Dex+3 damage)

Sun's Guard (level 3)
(spend 2 rage, roll stamina+primal urge, target 6)
This gift confers immunity to flames (anything short of walking on the sun)
for as many turns as successes were rolled.



================================== Skill Notes  ===============================

High Skills:


Flight (4) Specialty: High Altitude Surveillance
What can I say... he's a Corax.  He loves to fly...

Linguistics (4) No Specialty
4 dots means 4 extra languages...
Languages he speaks are:
Russian, English, Spanish, German, and Japanese.  You just can't gossip
if you can't speak their language.  The Corax language is conferred
immediately upon the corax' first change.


Area Knowledges (that might be relevant to this game--ie. on earth):
Moscow (4) - Albany grew up in Moscow... first as a bird, then, later, as a
Corax. Its the area he's most likely to call home.  Close to 30 years there.
He associated the Corax society there, and spent a lot of time with a
small coven of Verbena.

Toronto (3) - Probably his second home.  This is where Albany spent the better
part of his life, watching the garou, the mages and even the kindred come to
what was known as the Toronto Supernatural Non-Agression Pact.  It lasted far
longer than anyone suspected it would... but it too died, and they fell on
each other like a pack of, forgive the expression, rabid wolves.  A good
twenty years of watching...

New Orleans (2) - Spent a decade or so hanging out in the dipilidated remains
of an amusement park on Pontrarchan Beach.  Hung out with a group of mostly
mages, as they tried to figure out who and what they are... Albany decided here
that mages intrigue him more than garou.

Seattle (1) - spent a little bit of time here, helping a bunch of youngsters
(mostly garou) come together as a pack.  He helped them get between worlds
so they could complete a quest to gain a high muckity-muck spirit as a
totem...


============================= Rites ============================================
1 Rite of Talisman Dedication (I can take stuff into the umbra with me!)
2 Rite of Suns Bright Ray (I can make sunlight!)
2 Rite of Becoming (I can go deeeep into the umbra!)
2 Rite of the Fetish Egg (I can procreate... sorta)

================================ Corax Status =================================

Gaining Reknown:
Here's the basic run down of how the corax assign reknown.  Since the corax
are incorrigible gossips, word will get around, and the corax in question
will come to a parliament (to find a space reserved for him a little higher
up in the tree (more important than you think... less payload reception).
Of course, if Helios objects, the sky might cloud over suddenly... and the
corax will quickly retract their offer of reknown...

Wisdom
1) Get information fast (old intel is useless)
2) Get it right (bad intel is worse)
3) Get out safely (if you're dead, who cares what info you had?)

Honor
1) If you're going to do it, do it all the way (nothing worse than pullin out
    half-way)
2) Get witnesses (it's better to guarantee there's no misinterpretation by
    those who weren't there)
3) Don't do it unless you're sure (a selfless act done for selfish reasons
    isn't selfless.  don't do it unless you know your motives are right)

Glory
1) Only fight when you have to (we're scouts, not infantry)
2) Fight to win (if you lose, you're dead. noone at your funeral will care
    if you fought by the rules)
3) No second chances (if you have a chance to kill an opponent, do it.  If
    you don't he may appear in your future...)



================================ History =======================================

Albany was born
1934 August 2nd  -  Albany was born (a bird), the same day that Adolph Hitler
      attained 88% of the votes necessary to attain the title of German
      president.  He was born in Moscow, just outside the Kremlin.

1938 Summer - Albany underwent his first change.  Becoming human was a
      very odd experience.  He took the name Albany to reflect his first
      mentor's name... His first mentor died shortly after giving him the
      run-down on what it is to be a corax.

1938 Winter - Albany first hears Symphony No. 5 by Dmitri Shostokovitch.

1939-1945  World War II
      Albany spent a lot of time in Moscow, and Germany, finding all sorts
      of secrets out about the uneasy alliance, the russo-german non-agression
      pact (they never work out, do they?), and later, the russian blockade
      on West Germany, and Kruschev's regime...

1944-1950 Served as secretary to russian officials in Kremlin...  got lots
     of gossip...

1945 Accompanied Stalin to United Nations meeting, where USSR joined UN.

1950 Broke information on Korean war to other Corax.  Was discovered leaking
      information, fired, and sent to Siberian work-camp to await execution.

1952 Met with Verbena in Siberia...  was able to break camp in corvid form,
      but only after he'd memorized everything about the conditions and the
      wyrm involvement in the north.

1953-1964 Hung out with Siberian Verbena
     Watched Russia from a bit of a distance.

1961 Spread word of Russian man in space

1964 Kruschev falls from power (october 15)...  due to failure of agricultural
      program.  Verbena in Siberia, among others were working against his
      program, which would have enslaved the farmers more than they already
      were. Albany flees Russia, after wyrm forces come after the Verbena.

1964-1965 Resides in an umbral world, in a city called Karth.  Talks with
      the primevil forest, and helps to negotiate a deal between Karth and
      Metran, two warring countries.  the Karthen worship the sun, and see
      the Corax as something akin to priests of a living god.  The Corax
      use this world as a vacation spot...

1966-1987 Resides in Toronto

1969 Witnessed first known Supernatural Non-Agression pact between mages,
      Vampires and Werewolves.  Albany befriends Gregori Tolvanov, prince
      of Toronto.  (love of Shostokovitch, and talks of old Russian times).

1974 Albany gains a masters in Psychology from teh University of Toronto

1985 Albany start getting dreams of what he thinks is a past life.  (he sees,
      among other things, a woman getting her throat slit, while he is held
      face down in the sand, and carnival music plays in the background.)

1985 Gregori Tolvanov commits suicide.  Albany grieves.

1986 The Toronto Supernatural Non-Agression pact falls apart.  A new Prince,
      Hrolfgar, from Cincinnati, takes the throne...

1986-1987 The Kindred and the Garou cause extreme havok on each other.

1987 Not liking Hrolfgar's policies, Albany passes information that allows
      the Shadow Lords and Red Talons to strike, killing Hrolfgar.  Albany
      pulls a Ventrue, Johnathan Renfield, from the battle...   Albany
      negotiates Renfield's rise to Princedom, and *relative* acceptance by
      the Garou.

1987-1998 Resided in New Orleans

1988 Locates beach where he thinks he was killed in a previous life

1989 Meets up with strange mage group--outcasts from the new orleans
      chantry.  Starts learning all about mages (they're not all
      blood-oriented like the Verbena)

1992 Starts unravelling his dreams, seeing more and more.  Starts having new
      dreams of someone, confused, in Japan.

1993 witnesses the creation of a spirit-egg, and is the first to watch over
      it...

1998 Travels to japan, following the course of his dreams...

Most of the time, Albany is just kind of floating through life...  he gets
kind of obsessive about secrets... if someone's got one, he's got to find out
what it is.. find out who's kissing who, why something does what it does, and
how far he can go...

He's considered a world-walker by the other corax, and they fear he's going to
"lose the sun" and go travelling in the umbra without ever coming back.  But,
although he's old, he has yet to create a spirit-egg... and he will do that
before he leaves...
</PRE>

Oscar van Vliet said:
> It said somewhere in the introduction I could configure my own subscription
> options.. How do I do this?

using any internet browser (I've done it on IE3.02, IE4, Netscape
Communicator, and Linux Lynx), go to: http://www.egroups.com

You will be presented with a screen prompting you for your Registered (egroups)
Users information (email & password).

REGISTERING WITH EGROUPS
========================
If you do not have an account already set up with egroups, you will need to
set one up in order to change your mail options for any list hosted by egroups.
If you do have an account already set up, skip to CHANGING OPTIONS.

Click/select "Register" a for a FREE eGroups.com account.

You will then be presented with a screen prompting you for your email address. 
Enter the address to which you have subscribed to the list. When done, Click/
Select "Continue."  At this point, a validation number will be emailed to
the email account you specified.  You will need this validation number

You will be presented with a screen entitled, "Completing Registration..."
which will prompt you for your validation number, your name, postal code
and password (twice for verification).  Click/Select the "Continue" button.

You will then be presented with a screen that has a list of all the egroups
mailing lists you are subscribed to under this address.


CHANGING OPTIONS
================

Your mailing-list summary screen will list the eGroups mailing lists you are
participating in.  It will look something like this:

eGroups Name.........New Messages...................Mode
========================================================
<blood>......................<37>...................<Web>
<minds>.......................<4>...................<Email>

The elements in the angular brakcets (<>) are hyper links.

Clicking on a list name in the eGroups Name column wil ltake you to the
list description page.  Clicking on the numbers in the "New Messages" column
will display a menu of all messages in the mailing list.  Clicking on
an item in the "Mode" column allows you to change your list options.

For instance, clicking on "Email" above, will present you with a new screen
that will give the following information:

Group Information:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Subscription Policy: Public  (set by the moderator)
Access Policy: Public (set by the moderator)
Member Since: 12/10/98 (date you joined up with the list)
Subscription Preferences:
E-Mail Address: jait@... (your email address woud be here.)

Options you can change:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Should your profile be visible to members of this group?  <YES/NO>

Receive HTML e-mail? <YES/NO>
(if you select no, HTML code will be stripped from the email)

Read Mode:
<Read it On the Web - (read it via the browser, only)
Individual E-mails - (receive each email as its' received by the list)
Daily Summary Digest - (receive a summary (??) of messages posted that day)
Daily Full Digest - (receive a digest of all posted messages that day)>


Once you're finished setting your options, Click/Select the "Apply Changes"
button.  Once your preferences have been applied, you will start receiving
your list messages in the format you've specified.

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Cheers,

Jason
jait@...
(minds-owner@egroups.com)



--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace

Read it, liked it, agreed with it.

Sign my name on the bottom.  *grin*

Jo
{Feeling a bit strange, now that classes are done... Exams, here I
come!}

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Web-based e-mail groups -- http://www.eGroups.com

<PRE>
1) Introduction

This list has been put together to carry on the fine tradition originated
by the Great Minds Mailing list which resided on netcom.com.  The former
incarnation of the list became an orphaned list--a list without a moderator,
and as such, was operating without technical support.  We've started this
list to continue the Great Minds tradition of providing original net-material
by fans of the World of Darkness, the role-playing universe(s) created by
White Wolf Studios.

This list is a place where material can be published and/or discussed
as it related to the development of chronicle information or chronicle
supplements.  This list includes Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Vampire: The
Masquerade, Mage: The Ascension, Wraith: The Oblivion, and Changeling:
The Dreaming, and all associated variations.  This list does not focus
on the other game lines produced by white-wolf (i.e., Trinity and
Street-fighter).


2)  On Disputes

We post our work for a number of reasons--to give some back to the net, to
garnish the praise and adoration of the list-members, and to work out problems
with out work.  Constructive Criticism is always welcome.  However, we are
all passionate about our work, and occasionally, arguments erupt.

When these arguments become destructive or counter-productive to the purpose
of the list.  the moderator(s) will ask the participants in the argument
to take it to personal mail.  Be aware that the list is currently set up
to automatically reply to the entire list--not the originator of the post!

If the argument continues, the moderator(s) will discuss what to do about
the situation...options include bumping the participants from the list,
overriding the list settings to moderate those posters only, or changing
the nature of the list so that the moderator(s) approval is required before
joining the list.  Obviously, we don't want to do any of these, and we
fervently hope this situation won't come up.



3) On Receiving Mail from the List

On the list web-page (http://www.egroups.com/list/minds) you can subscribe,
unsubscribe, read mail, and set your options for reading mail on this list.
Some of the options for reading mail include: reading individual messages,
reading daily summary digests, reading daily full digests, or reading it
on the web-site.  If you're going away for a few days, a few weeks, whatever,
you can change the options to reading it on the web, and limit the number of
messages in your in-box when you return home.



4) On the Use of Subject-Keys

Due to the nature of some of the content that might come up in this list,
the use of subject-keys are recommended.  A subject-key is a word
or two that identify and categorize the nature of the message.  The
following subject-keys are recommended:

ADULT = for adult-oriented material...,
WEREWOLF = for werewolf-specific posts,
MAGE = for mage-specific posts,
VAMPIRE = for vampire-specific posts,
WRAITH = for wraith-specific posts,
CHANGELING = for changeling-specific posts,
POTPOURRI = for crossover posts,

The only subject-key that we will actually moan and complain about is the
use of the ADULT subject key.



5) On Adult postings

There are many subscribers to the Great Minds List, and the age-range is
probably quite wide.  For this reason, we encourage the use of the ADULT
subject-key.  Posts that include adult content should also have a one-line
warning at the beginning of the post--something like:

	 This material contains violent or offensive material.

If you suspect that you might be offended by adult postings the use of the
ADULT subject-key and the one-line warning at the top of the file should
constitute enough warning to allow you to move to the next message.


6) On In-Character and Out-Of-Character (IC and OOC) Posts

This list is not a MU**.  It is not an in-character list, and does not support
the existence of on-going discussions/role-playing in an in-character context.
Please keep your role-playing separate from this discussion.

If you have any questions about the list or the list policies, please send
email to minds-owner@egroups.com and expect a day or two turn-around. We
will attempt to answer every email either directly or via the list.


7) On Other lists

There exist other mailing-lists for specific game-lines.  You can send
a "list" command to majordomo@... to receive a list of
all mailing-lists hosted by that list-server.  I know of five lists that
it hosts:

Werewolf-L - for Werewolf: The Apocalypse
Mage-L - for Mage: The Ascension
Vampire-L - for Vampire: The Masquerade
Wraith-L - for Wraith: The Oblivion
Changeling-L - for Changeling: The Dreaming

I believe there might be a list of street-fighter and trinity as well.
These lists are the proper places to ask rules-specific questions regarding
these lines.

I think there's also a new list at white-wolf.com that gives industry-specific
news for white wolf, but I can't remember the subscription info...  I'll
track it down this weekend and post it.


8) On Moderator's Style

The moderators of this list see themselves as trouble-shooters.  If the
list is going well, why fix it?  You should only see us in an administrative
capacity if there is a problem.  This might be an interpersonal conflict,
where we encourage the participants to take it off-line, or a technical problem,
where we try to figure out what's gone wrong, and how to fix it.

--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace

Greetings to all,

    This is pritus (AKA Richard Badger), and I just wanted to say sorry
that I couldn't respond to any of yesterday's messages; we had meetings
all day at work.

I've caught up on all the messages of yesterday and today, and would
just like to say that I'm glad that everything is still up and running
on your part Gambit.  I'd be happy to help you and Jason out as needed,
whether as co-moderator, assistant web-guy, or anything else that lies
within my ability.  Call on me when needed.

Have a good day all, and may none of you get bitten by things that go
*bump* in the night.  :-)

- Richard Badger                 http://members.tripod.com/~Pritus/

______________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Web-based e-mail groups -- http://www.eGroups.com

Okay, so Gambit still seems to be active with the web-site, and I
do remember seeing his name elsewhere on the list...

So, pritus, I'd still like you on board as a comoderator.

I'll put together an ad/announcement thing for the list tomorrow,
detailing how to subscribe, issuing an abbreviated list policy,
and give instructions on how to unsubscribe from the old gm-l
list.

I expect the transition to take some time, though... like a few
months.

You guys ready for this?

jason

--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace

No idea why you got the bounce-back...  I wonder if my mailer or bigfoot
is having problems today...?  That's the second odd occurrence I've had
today.

Anyway, I'm forwarding this to the comoderators on the new list, for their
information.

Gambit said:
> I'm here, I'm still actively maintaining the site.  If we're essentially
> just talking about changing the address of the mailing list, then it
> shouldn't change anything about how I maintain the site at all.  I just
> save the files that I receive from the list, put HTML tags into them,
> and post them to the webserver.  Changing to a new listserver shouldn't
> change any of that.

	 Hey, great to hear.  I'll let the other two know...  I'm
	 glad you're still around and still active with it.  I've got
	 one person who can give you a hand with it, if you want...
	 his address is pritus@...


	 Thanx for getting in contact with me.  We're moving along
	 so fast on this thing, I didn't want to step on any toes...
	 I figure, why fix what isn't broken?

> I'm also happy to help out with moderating the list if that's needed.
> The important thing as far as I'm concerned is making these materials
> accessible to people; whatever we need to do to accomplish that, is
> fine by me.

	 I'm pretty much ambivalent about it.  If you want to be a
	 moderator, I've no problem with that.  If you don't, I've
	 no problem with that either.  It's your call.

	 Either way, if you care to sign up on the new list, before
	 we tell everyone else about it (on Saturday), send a message
	 (contents should be irrelevant) to minds-subscribe@egroups.com
	 or go to http://www.egroups.com/list/minds and subscribe
	 directly through the web page.

> Gambit
> lambem@...

	 Cheers,

	 Jason
	 jait@...


--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace

> > Once we advertise it, I'll remove these messages from the list archvies
> > stored on egroups.
>
> So, how does one go about doing stuff like this?  Or is that in the
> FAQ that I haven't hit yet since I'm supposedly working on my history
> paper right now... (Can you tell?  *grin*)

	 Good question.  When you view it on the web, you get two window
	 panes--one on the left has subjects & dates with links to the
	 actual messages which appear in the right pane.  At the top
	 of the right pane, when a message is displayed,  is a bunch of
	 options--including one that says "Remove."  I'm not sure if
	 you can remove someone else's posting, but a moderator *should*
	 be able to remove a posting--such as SPAM, etc from the archives.

	 If you like, I can set up a practice group for us moderators to
	 screw around with as much as we want... (add messages, delete
	 messages, remove each others mesages, change each others'
	 status, etc) all without affecting the minds list.

> >
> >  after the second week or so, then I think we should put ads
> >  on the oracle lists, and send it to various web-site people.
>
> Well, this works quite nicely, as far as I'm concerned.  Two weeks is
> enough time... Of course, two weeks from now will be Christmas Eve,
> so maybe we should just agree to send out general announcements in
> January.

	 Early january works fine for me...

> Um.  Okay....  I would think the moderator's main job would be much
> like BJZ.  To fix spelling and grammer {I *hate* spelling mistakes,
> especially on websites.  Emails it's not too bad, but websites I log
> off of after the third spelling mistake.}, code it up into HTML, and
> put up the link.

	 I Understand.  If you're doing the website, it's up to you...
	 I just really don't want it so that we should have the right
	 to decide what gets posted based on our particular whims...
	 (except of course, copyright and legality).


> Well, it gives the moderators a bit of a break.  They may get caught
> up in other lists and the like, so not check their email from this
> list as regularily.  With it being submitted to his software, it
> means it WILL be dealt with.

	 Only so far.  I mean, it gets bounced to the moderator, but
	 there's nothing to say tthat it won't get lost at the  moderator's
	 place, either.
>
> {Just so you aren't expecting any replies for a bit, I won't be back
> into my room till around 6 my time.  It's noon now.}

	 I'm not in a hurry... I'm on sporacidcally throughout the day,
	 and usually only for a couple of minutes or two...

	 Jason


--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace

From a far away space and time, Jason W. Tice wrote:

> Okay, I'm sending this one ot the new email list address...

Woo, it works!!  *grin*  {I am *so* easily entertained.}

> Once we advertise it, I'll remove these messages from the list archvies
> stored on egroups.

So, how does one go about doing stuff like this?  Or is that in the
FAQ that I haven't hit yet since I'm supposedly working on my history
paper right now... (Can you tell?  *grin*)

>
>  after the second week or so, then I think we should put ads
>  on the oracle lists, and send it to various web-site people.

Well, this works quite nicely, as far as I'm concerned.  Two weeks is
enough time... Of course, two weeks from now will be Christmas Eve,
so maybe we should just agree to send out general announcements in
January.

>  My understanding was that it was an offer to provide software
>  that people would send articles to, which would then filter
>  them to pre-determined moderators for each game-system.

Um.  Okay....  I would think the moderator's main job would be much
like BJZ.  To fix spelling and grammer {I *hate* spelling mistakes,
especially on websites.  Emails it's not too bad, but websites I log
off of after the third spelling mistake.}, code it up into HTML, and
put up the link.

>  2) the original postings will stay on minds@egroups.com, allowing
>  whoever to take copy it out to the web-site, if they want it.
>  It seems a little like a duplication of effort.  Submit it to
>  the minds list, AND submit it to his software.

Well, it gives the moderators a bit of a break.  They may get caught
up in other lists and the like, so not check their email from this
list as regularily.  With it being submitted to his software, it
means it WILL be dealt with.

Anyway, I'm off to lunch.  I think it's grilled cheese day, and my
school makes really good tomato soup.

{Just so you aren't expecting any replies for a bit, I won't be back
into my room till around 6 my time.  It's noon now.}

Jo

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Web-based e-mail groups -- http://www.eGroups.com

Okay, I'm sending this one ot the new email list address...

Once we advertise it, I'll remove these messages from the list archvies
stored on egroups.

Jason

Trouble said:
> >From a far away space and time, Jason W. Tice wrote:
> Hello, I'm Jo, I know Jason, but I don't know Pritus.  *smile*

	 I think Pritus is the guy who'll be taking care of the web
	 stuff for us--or at the very least working out a way to keep
	 the web=site going, if lamben@... isn't interested...
	 Still some things to work out.  And I don't want to just
	 yank it away from someone, if everything's going okay.
>
> > Shall we kick it off by putting an adertisement on the Gm-l@...
> > list?
>
> Works for me... If the whole thing's working properly.  Would we also
> drop advertisments to BJZ, the lists on oracle, and elsewhere?

	 Yeah, it makes sense.  I'd like to put it on gm-l first,
	 to give people there a chance to move over to the new list
	 if they want to.  I expect that many of them will not
	 unsub from the old gm-l list until the activity level on
	 the new one goes way up.

	 after the second week or so, then I think we should put ads
	 on the oracle lists, and send it to various web-site people.

> > Also, what do you think of Owen's offer for using software to submit
> > postings?
>
> I'm not quite sure I understood it...  It's submissions for the
> website, or submissions for the list.  I'm assuming "region" ment
> which system it fell under, although that wasn't particularily clear.

	 My understanding was that it was an offer to provide software
	 that people would send articles to, which would then filter
	 them to pre-determined moderators for each game-system.

	 I'm a little leary of it myself for a couple of reasons:

	 1) the "moderator" of the web-site sections really shouldn't
	 have any great input on the whether an article gets into the
	 site or not...  it's not a quality issue...  the moderator
	 would, I assume, just make sure the article does deal with the
	 specified section, and perhaps format it in HTML.

	 2) the original postings will stay on minds@egroups.com, allowing
	 whoever to take copy it out to the web-site, if they want it.
	 It seems a little like a duplication of effort.  Submit it to
	 the minds list, AND submit it to his software.

	 I think the minimum required to set up the site is a place to
	 hold the stuff, willignness to troll the mailing list for material,
	 and some HTML skill to update the site pages.  No offense to you,
	 pritus, but I don't think the site-maintainer should have a whole
	 lot of say on what goes on the site.  Now that I've said that, I
	 can think of all sorts of exceptions--copyright characters (ie,
	 superman, batman, sait of killers, etc.), site-host restrictions on
	 content (ie geocities polciy on graphic language & pornography).

	 However, I think the web-site maintainer should be as hands off
	 as we should be as moderators of the list.  We're here to settle
	 disputes and take care of technical problems.  Nothing more.

	 Does that seem a little draconian?  As far as the web site goes,
	 I'm inclined to say, "it's yours, do what you want with it," but
	 I'd kinda like ot make sure that even the hokey stuff gets in
	 there. I mean, god, I got Seganku (were-skunks) into it... there
	 are few things that are more cheesy...

	 Your opinions?

	 Jason

--
jait@...,   ICQ: 11952306,    http://www.bigfoot.com/~jait
"We are at heart curious creatures, drawn inexorably to the light
of understanding like moths to an open flame.  We may get burnt,
but there are always other flames."  -- J. Wallace

<PRE>
1) Introduction

This list has been put together to carry on the fine tradition originated
by the Great Minds Mailing list which resided on netcom.com.  The former
incarnation of the list became an orphaned list--a list without a moderator,
and as such, was operating without technical support.  We've started this
list to continue the Great Minds tradition of providing original net-material
by fans of the World of Darkness, the role-playing universe(s) created by
White Wolf Studios.

This list is a place where material can be published and/or discussed
as it related to the development of chronicle information or chroncile
supplements.  This list includes Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Vampire: The
Masquerade, Mage: The Ascension, Wraith: The Oblivion, and Changeling:
The Dreaming, and all associated variations.  This list does not focus
on the other game lines produced by white-wolf (i.e., Trinity and
Streetfighter).


2)  On Disputes

We post our work for a number of reasons--to give some back to the net, to
garnish the praise and adoration of the list-members, and to work out problems
with out work.  Constructive Criticism is always welcome.  However, we are
all passionate about our work, and occasionally, arguments erupt.

When these arguments become destructive or counter-productive to the purpose
of the list.  the moderator(s) will ask the participants in the argument
to take it to personal mail.  Be aware that the list is currently set up
to automatically reply to the entire list--not the originator of the post!

If the argument continues, the moderator(s) will discuss what to do about
the situation...options include bumping the participants from the list,
overiding the list settings to moderate those posters only, or changing
the nature of the list so that the moderator(s) approval is required before
joining the list.  I don't want to do any of these, and we ferevently hope
this situation won't come up.



3) On Receiving Mail from the List

On the list web-page (http://www.egroups.com/list/minds) you can subscribe,
unsubscribe, read mail, and set your options for reading mail on this list.
Some of the options for reading mail include: reading individual messages,
reading daily summary digests, reading daily full digests, or reading it
on the web-site.  If you're going away for a few days, a few weeks, whatever,
you can change the options to reading it on the web, and limit the number of
messages in your inbox when you return home.


4) On the User of Subject-Keys

Due to the nature of some of the content that might come up in this list,
the use of subject-keys are recommended.  A subject-key is a word
or two that identify and categorize the nature of the message.  The
following subnject-keys are recommended:

ADULT = for adult-oriented material...,
WEREWOLF = for werewolf-specific posts,
MAGE = for mage-specific posts,
VAMPIRE = for vampire-speciifc posts,
WRAITH = for wraith-specific posts,
CHANGELING = for changeling-specific posts,
POTPORRI = for crossover posts,

The only subject-key that we will actually moan and complain about is the
use of the ADULT subject key.

5) On Adult postings

There are many subscribers to the Great Minds List, and the age-range is
probably quite wide.  For this reason, we encourage the use of the ADULT
subject-key.  Posts that include adult content should also have a one-line
warning at the beginning of the post--something like:

	 This material contains violent or offensive material.

If you suspect that you might be offended by adult postings the use of the
ADULT subject-key and the one-line warning at the top of the file should
constitute enough warning to allow you to move to the next message.


6) On In-Character and Out-Of-Character (IC and OOC) Posts

This list is not a MU**.  It is not an in-character list, and does not support
the existence of on-going discussions/role-playing in an in-character context.
Please keep your role-playing separate from this discussion.

If you have any questions about the list or the list policies, please send
email to minds-owner@egroups.com and expect a day or two turn-around. We
will attempt to answer every email either directly or via the list.
</PRE>

A reincarnation of the Great Minds mailing list hosted on netcom.com.

The posting guidelines and formal mission statement for the list is being
developed.

Group Moderator: minds-owner@egroups.com

To subscribe, send a message to minds-subscribe@egroups.com or go to this
e-group's home page at http://www.egroups.com/list/minds