--- In laser_design@yahoogroups.com, "Ross, Douglas"
<douglas.ross@l...> wrote:
> Hello kyraeric,
>
> I do understand the concept of "Lurkers" since they may profit off
of the
> hard work of others who put the time and money into developing new
concepts,
> but I don't think anyone interested in tag technology in this Laser
Design
> Yahoo group can honestly say that they aren't "lurkers" themselves.   We
> have all visited other websites and messageboards and absorbed some
ideas
> and not contributed "two quality posting" to their websites each month.
> You, yourself just wrote, "A quick survey of sites on DIY tag guns and
> sensors reveals..."   From my point of view, it seems as though you are
> saying you can borrow their ideas for free but they can't borrow
yours for
> free.

Good point, and well taken.  In truth, I have sent feedback in the
form of e-mails, which have often led to long discussions, to the
owners of all Tag sites I have visited, because above all else, I
enjoy talking about the technology.  It's a fairly narrow interest
group, and it is rare to find good people to discuss these ideas with.

Also, all of my designs are freely open to whoever wants them, as I am
GPL'ing all of my designs, and have posted several schematics to other
sites as well.

> That is what concerns me about your "contribute on schedule or be
> purged and forever banished" policy.   Honestly, I didn't even know
about
> the policy until I got a rather threatening email with the subject
heading
> of "You are in violation of the laser design rules".   Isn't sending a
> message like this one a bit harsh and anti-social especially if you want
> that person to happily volunteer his ideas?      Yes, you may have
made an
> impact and stirred the pot with your purging policy, but I think you may
> have tainted some talented members esteem of this yahoo group and
done more
> damage than good.

This is a good point, however, I would like to show you the point of
view the moderators and I have on the issue.

When this site was first started there was a small amount of
discussion traffic.  It was a good start.  For whatever reason, this
traffic slowly dwindled to the point where I could post a question
asking for features people thought were important, and all I would get
back would be silence.  We made an administrative decision to start
purging lurkers in an effort to remove the chaff.

> I don't have a solution as to how to filter the leaches and lurkers
from the
> contributors, but some of those leaches will end up evolving a new
idea from
> a design on this yahoo group that you can leach off of later on.   I
doubt
> that laser tag gear design will ever reach an end.  There is a lot
of tag
> technology out there which has evolved that way, and I'm sure it
does and
> will happen here in this group as well.

You make some good points, and I've discussed them with the other
moderators.  As a result, we've opened the group completely, it's now
freely joinable, and we will not be purging this month, or any month
in the forseeable future, and we'll see how it works.

I hope you'll stick around as a member of the community, and if you
are interested, as you seem to be both responsible, and to have a good
head for community affairs, I'll be happy to offer you moderator
privlages.

-----Original Message-----
From: kyraeric [mailto:kyraeric@...]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 9:19 PM
To: laser_design@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [laser_design] Re: File - community_standards.txt

We had to go to this setup because originally we had a small group of
contributors, and a lot of people leeching off of the work.  Those
actively contributing at the time expressed some unhappiness with this
fact, and we've been trying to prune off the lurkers on a monthly
basis.  It's not so much of a "Stalin, Hitler" approach, and I do take
offense to the use of those names in such a manner, it's a no lurking
policy.

Unfortunatly the initially large group of lurkers caused a lot of our
actives to go underground.  Maybe that will change now.  I for one
would love that, and now that I know someone is listening, I'll post
some articles I've been holding onto for that reason.

I look forward to hearing your response.

In the hopes that this will boost some community participation, I'll
see if we can't hold off on the account purge for January.

--- In laser_design@yahoogroups.com, "Ross, Douglas"
<douglas.ross@l...> wrote:
> I would really enjoy contributing but I've received only two
postings so far
> over the past month and I still have no idea what topic in regards
to the
> use of lasers in a laser tag style game have been discussed.  Have I
missed
> something?   How am I suppose to provide any applicable comments?   I
> applied to this board because I thought I could learn something and
share
> some of my experience.   Sounds like this board is doomed if the
members are
> threatened into contributing or else be expelled.  I recommend reading a
> book on motivational and people skills, it might help.   The Stalin or
> Hitler approach to running a board is not very effective.  Might I
suggest
> politely asking if anyone has any ideas to discuss since the board a
is a
> bit slow right now?  Pease terminate my account immediately.

---

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Anyone who has kept up with electronics realizes that the availability
of complex IC's has dramatically increased since WoW introduced their
first tag sensor.  The original WoW sensor relied mainly on RC
circuitry, and a tone decoder to sense the tag wave form.
Surprisingly, it is still a very effective model today.

A quick survey of sites on DIY tag guns and sensors reveals that these
days, the trend is to use the single chip "TSOP" sensor.  Vishay
semiconductor produces a 3 lead package with built in IR
photodetector, automatic gain control, band pass filter, and
demodulator.  While these TSOP sensors are largely effective, some of
my personal correspondence has turned up a disatisfaction with their
performance in broad daylight, especially in the southern hemisphere.

A good question therefor to ask is this:  Have you found TSOP's to be
effective?  Is there perhaps a better way to accomplish our goals?

In an attempt to help rectify this problem, I've put together the
following schematic for a bandpass filter.  It features digitally,
independantly settable Q (inverse bandwidth), Gain, and center
frequency (some care must be taken with the center frequency ganged
adjustment, ensure that the two 5113's are fairly close in
resistance).  While not a full sensor, connecting a photo-transistor
to this circuit, (through an op-amp so as not to overload the
transistor, as it sees an impedence of Rg) will provide an effective
gain + bandpass filter.  Demodulation can be done either in hardware
with another IC (like our good old friend the 567 tone decoder), or in
software on the uC.

The schematics are provided here: http://5596.org/pass.gif

<IMG SRC="http://5596.org/pass.gif">

We had to go to this setup because originally we had a small group of
contributors, and a lot of people leeching off of the work.  Those
actively contributing at the time expressed some unhappiness with this
fact, and we've been trying to prune off the lurkers on a monthly
basis.  It's not so much of a "Stalin, Hitler" approach, and I do take
  offense to the use of those names in such a manner, it's a no lurking
policy.

Unfortunatly the initially large group of lurkers caused a lot of our
actives to go underground.  Maybe that will change now.  I for one
would love that, and now that I know someone is listening, I'll post
some articles I've been holding onto for that reason.

I look forward to hearing your response.

In the hopes that this will boost some community participation, I'll
see if we can't hold off on the account purge for January.

--- In laser_design@yahoogroups.com, "Ross, Douglas"
<douglas.ross@l...> wrote:
> I would really enjoy contributing but I've received only two
postings so far
> over the past month and I still have no idea what topic in regards
to the
> use of lasers in a laser tag style game have been discussed.  Have I
missed
> something?   How am I suppose to provide any applicable comments?   I
> applied to this board because I thought I could learn something and
share
> some of my experience.   Sounds like this board is doomed if the
members are
> threatened into contributing or else be expelled.  I recommend reading a
> book on motivational and people skills, it might help.   The Stalin or
> Hitler approach to running a board is not very effective.  Might I
suggest
> politely asking if anyone has any ideas to discuss since the board a
is a
> bit slow right now?  Pease terminate my account immediately.

-----Original Message-----
From: laser_design@yahoogroups.com [mailto:laser_design@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 3:22 PM
To: laser_design@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [laser_design] File - community_standards.txt

Your Community Manager is design5596 (design5596@...). You can email the Community Manager any time you have a question or concern. We reserve the right to add Moderators to help the Community Manager with the tasks presented, should they ever be required.

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As of December 1st, 2003 the following rules are enacted regarding members of this board:

A) All members now have a posting quota which they must meet ever
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• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Ok, I've done a lot of leg work lately, and wanted to share the fruits
of my labors.  First off, I've identified several high power emitters.
  Most noteable is the TSAL6100 which puts out a staggering 650-1000
mW/sr on a 10kHz pulse.  Since I'm using a 56kHz pulse, I might even
be able to further boost it, though a current of more than 1A would be
murder on my design.

TSAL6100
10 deg 1/2 angle
80-130 mW/sr @ 100mA, 50Hz
650-1000 mW/sr @ 1A, 10kHz
$0.21 from mouser.com

TSAL6200
17 deg 1/2 angle
40-60 mW/sr @ 100mA, 50kHz
340-500mW/sr @ 1A, 10kHz
$0.21 from mouser.com

TSAL6400
25 deg 1/2 angle
25-40 mW/sr @ 100mA, 50Hz
220-310 mW/sr @ 1A, 10kHz
$0.21 from mouser.com

LN175PA
57 deg 1/2 angle
Unknown power
$1.81 from digikey.com

The TSAL's are good general purpose emitters.  The 6100 ought to have
an amazing range, while the 6200 and 6400 ought to be a bit more
acurate due to the wider beam.  The LN175PA I included as an oddity,
it would make a good flame thrower, or other area of effect weapon,
hitting most players in front and to the direct sides.  It cannot be
lensed efficiently, however, and will probably suffer from a VERY
minimal range (5-10m).

As far as lenses go, I've located 38x50, 73x125, and 73x100 lenses
(all in mm of course).  The 38x50 comes from wardsci.com, the 73mm
ones from www.allelectronics.com .  The 38mm would make an excellent
pistol lens (6x magnification means a good spread), while the 73's
would make decent rifles.  The 38mm is $1.50, and the 73mm's are $1.00
each.

Additionally I discovered the TSOPxxxx series ir recievers, which do
90% of the work for us, including bandpassing, automatic gain control,
and demodulation.  All that is left is to pipe the results to a
processor.  Additionally, they are open collector meaning we can hook
them up in parallel for unlimited chaining.

All in all, a very productive week,
Eric

To date, no one has made their posting requirements for January.  As a reminder,
new members must post at least two pieces of content during their first month,
our new members haven't posted a thing.

Account deletions will take place as scheduled on Jan 31st.

Ok, after consulting with some people, reading up on current
specifications I've constructed the format I will be using for
sending/recieving a tag.

First off, all signals will be sent on a carrier wave modulated at
around 56kHz.  This sounds like a random number, but it is also the
carrier wave used for the original Laser Tag equipment, giving us the
option for compatibility later on down the road.

Our signal on the carrier wave will transmit a single 8-bit data
segment, indicating the ID and weapon type of the firer.  The data
segment consists of a 2.4ms start bit, and then the data itself.  1's
are represented by a 1.2 ms pulse, 0's by a 0.6 ms pulse, each
separated by 0.6 ms.

To change to laser tag compatibility, we just send out a 1.8kHz signal
on the 56kHz carrier wave.

--- In laser_design@yahoogroups.com, "kyraeric" <kyraeric@y...> wrote:
> I think we can all agree that a display on one of these units is fairly
important, and any of us who have been to a laser tag arena know how useful, and
interesting they can be.  I've been investigating options for these devices, and
have a report for you guys, along with some general opinion questions.
>
> I set my minimum requirements as 16x2, preferrably with a backlight.  Standard
LCD modules seem to come in 8x1, 8x2, 16x1, 16x2, 16x4, 20x1, 20x2, 20x4. 
Personally, the 8x? seem unusable, eight characters isn't exactly a lot to play
with.  20x? doesn't seem to give much of an advantage over 16x?, as those four
extra characters really aren't all that useful, especially since, in my research
at least, those extra characters cause the unit to cost twice as much.
>
> Affordable LCD's seem to be a problem as well.  There are very few to be had
for under $20.  It's pretty clear to me that these are going to be the most
expensive components on our devices, and will probably account for around 20-30%
of the total cost of a unit.  After looking around and comparing units, I think
Hantronix has the best available solution.  You can purchase a 16x2 Hantronix,
with no backlight, from mouser.com for $11.31 (I'll put mouser.com on the links
page shortly), and the same unit with a backlight for $14.32.  This is still a
lot of money, but is much cheaper than similar units I found elsewhere.
>
> The best part I found about these displays, however, was the fact that they
come with great documentation.  http://www.hantronix.com/2_2.html has a full set
of operating instructions, wiring diagrams, and a sample circuit involving a uC
being used to drive the display.
>
> My questions are the following: Could we live with an 8x2 display?  Is this
too much of a hassle?  They are only $6.90, and so we'd save a lot by using
them, but is the trade off acceptable?  Second, how important is a backlight? 
Obviously, playing at night requires one, but the other option is to try and
illuminate it using high output LED's set to either side of the LCD.  We could
build a front lit version of the normal backlit version for only $1.00 more.
>
> I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
>
> -Eric

Some additions:  Digi-key carries a number of inexpensive LCD's as well.

Lumex 16x2 STN transflexive w/ yellow/green backlight - 13.36
Lumex 16x2 STN reflective w/o backlight - $10.34
Lumex 16x2 TN reflective w/o backlight - $5.88

TN is a Twisted Nematic LCD, which is the kind normally used for calculators,
and the like.  It has a narrow viewing angle, and poorer contrast.

STN is super twisted nematic LCD, and has a better viewing angle, and excellent
contrast.

Hope this helps,
-Eric

I think we can all agree that a display on one of these units is fairly
important, and any of us who have been to a laser tag arena know how useful, and
interesting they can be.  I've been investigating options for these devices, and
have a report for you guys, along with some general opinion questions.

I set my minimum requirements as 16x2, preferrably with a backlight.  Standard
LCD modules seem to come in 8x1, 8x2, 16x1, 16x2, 16x4, 20x1, 20x2, 20x4. 
Personally, the 8x? seem unusable, eight characters isn't exactly a lot to play
with.  20x? doesn't seem to give much of an advantage over 16x?, as those four
extra characters really aren't all that useful, especially since, in my research
at least, those extra characters cause the unit to cost twice as much.

Affordable LCD's seem to be a problem as well.  There are very few to be had for
under $20.  It's pretty clear to me that these are going to be the most
expensive components on our devices, and will probably account for around 20-30%
of the total cost of a unit.  After looking around and comparing units, I think
Hantronix has the best available solution.  You can purchase a 16x2 Hantronix,
with no backlight, from mouser.com for $11.31 (I'll put mouser.com on the links
page shortly), and the same unit with a backlight for $14.32.  This is still a
lot of money, but is much cheaper than similar units I found elsewhere.

The best part I found about these displays, however, was the fact that they come
with great documentation.  http://www.hantronix.com/2_2.html has a full set of
operating instructions, wiring diagrams, and a sample circuit involving a uC
being used to drive the display.

My questions are the following: Could we live with an 8x2 display?  Is this too
much of a hassle?  They are only $6.90, and so we'd save a lot by using them,
but is the trade off acceptable?  Second, how important is a backlight? 
Obviously, playing at night requires one, but the other option is to try and
illuminate it using high output LED's set to either side of the LCD.  We could
build a front lit version of the normal backlit version for only $1.00 more.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

-Eric

I've been wanting to add some RAM to my system, to give me a large storage space
for information on who hit whom, for statistics at the end of the match (i.e.
your % of hits, who got hit the most, etc).  So I've been looking at a lot of
RAM.  Up until recently I've only been looking at SRAM's, since they are low
upkeep.

I've looked at a few DRAM's by now though, and they are much more cost
effective.  My only question is this:  How difficult is it to strobe them, and
keep the data valid?  How much more will this complicate my design?  Does anyone
have experience working with DRAM vs. SRAM?

The SRAM still looks very attractive to me, as it is basically plug and play. 
No additional circuitry required.  Additionally, DRAM's tend to be no bigger
than Yx1 or Yx4, as opposed to SRAM's which are typically Yx8, which make it
much easier to actually get at the data.

Opinions and thoughts?

Futurlec seems to have quite a number of cheap flash chips, which
would make for great flash drives for an embedded project.  The
boast over 1,000,000 erase cycles, so this might be good for a
general drive.

http://www.futurlec.com/ICFLASH.shtml

As you can probably tell, I'm in the middle of working out the memory
requirements of my system, and I've found a good Flash Memory chip.

Jameco #74771
128k x 8, 150ns
Data sheet included
$6.95 ($0.000005 per byte)

Note: This is a 12V CMOS chip...

I've been looking for some low cost storage for my project, as it'd be
nice to have an external RAM disk for what I'm doing, but unfortunatly
most "good" SRAM's are a little on the expensive side.

BTW I define good as 1k or greater x 8.  I'm not a fan of x4 RAM, it
just means you have more logic and wiring required in order to use the
darn thing.  No good if you ask me.  In addition, I like it to come
with a clear data sheet, so there is no question as to how to wire the
sucker up.

Here are some SRAM's which can be purchased from jameco.com for less
than $5 (I'm sure you've noticed most SRAM's run for $8+, way too much
IMHO).

Jameco #38738
2kx8, 120ns
No data sheet
$1.49 ($0.0007 per byte)

Jameco #42737
2kx8, 100ns
Data sheet included
$2.39 ($0.0012 per byte)

Jameco #42788
2kx8, 100ns
No data sheet
$1.69 ($0.0008 per byte)

Jameco #85121
8kx8, 70ns
Data sheet included
$3.39 ($0.0004 per byte)

Had a few computer problems and took a while to sort things out.  As
for the question that was asked of me about meelee weapons, I was
looking at using a short range RF transmitter/reciever conected to
the homebuilt file I found online and added to the file section.
These circuits use common parts, require no programing, and are easy
to modify and add to.  Hope all enjoy.

unshavenmisfit

> Remember, in the "real world" no two events ever happen at the same
time.
> But within the granularity of the clock cycle of your chip, two things
> could happen at the same time.  Why not just buffer the input to your
> on-board chip?  Why bother with two?

Ah, but in this case, two events can happen at the same time.  A
"fire" event, as seen by a processor involves setting up a carrier
wave, and a signal, modifying in-game variables (ex: ammo), then
transmitting the "tag" for a very large fraction of a second, remember
tags aren't instananeous, but a signal transmitted over time.

Getting tagged involves recieveing the signal, amplifying the signal,
confirming the carrier wave, decoding the signal wave, and then taking
the appropriate actions (damage, disable, etc).

Setting up a buffered input is harder than it sounds, and in an
economic sense, is no better than just having a second chip.  The uC's
are relatively cheap, so in essence we are buffering with a secondary
processor.  (For point of reference, uC's range from $2 - $7).

> The processor would cycle on and off repeatedly (and suffer the
> associated power-up lag) during game play.  Are you sure that's a good
> idea?

Most of these uC's are built to go into a dormant "sleep" state during
which they consume near 0 current, and power up instantly on an
interrupt.  In fact the difference in response times to interupts from
  "sleep" state and normal is zero, so I think this would be a good
idea, batteries are probably one of our main concerns, as this unit is
going to suck them down like crazy.

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003, design5596 wrote:

> I'm currently planning to set my system up as a set of parallel
> processors communicating over a bus.  I think this is the best
> compromise for the "ability to tag and score a hit at the same time"
> problem, and additionally should allow us to better manage the system.

Remember, in the "real world" no two events ever happen at the same time.
But within the granularity of the clock cycle of your chip, two things
could happen at the same time.  Why not just buffer the input to your
on-board chip?  Why bother with two?

> For example, the processor that records a tag could be a lower voltage
> unit with less capabilities, as it only needs to be active to confirm
> the frequency of a tag, and then forward hit information.  Setting up
> an interrupt based on the detectors for this processor might end up
> saving a lot of power, allowing us to power down the processor when
> not in use, saving on the batteries (which are undoubtedly going to be
> a problem).

The processor would cycle on and off repeatedly (and suffer the
associated power-up lag) during game play.  Are you sure that's a good
idea?

> Speaking of batteries, does anyone have any experience on building a charging
> circuit, so that we can charge a battery pack while it is still in a vest?

Nope.  But it can't be too hard.  Every laser tag system I've ever seen
has this technology.

-Chris

I'm currently planning to set my system up as a set of parallel processors
communicating over a bus.  I think this is the best compromise for the "ability
to
tag and score a hit at the same time" problem, and additionally should allow us
to
better manage the system.

For example, the processor that records a tag could be a lower voltage unit with
less capabilities, as it only needs to be active to confirm the frequency of a
tag,
and then forward hit information.  Setting up an interrupt based on the
detectors for
this processor might end up saving a lot of power, allowing us to power down the
processor when not in use, saving on the batteries (which are undoubtedly going
to
be a problem).

Speaking of batteries, does anyone have any experience on building a charging
circuit, so that we can charge a battery pack while it is still in a vest?

I'm working on some plans for a couple differant systems.  A bunch of
people in the area want to do a Star Wars LARP, so I'm working on
integrating enough to be able to use guns, lightsabers, and bombs.
Will post info as it becomes finalized and tested.

--- In laser_design@yahoogroups.com, "kyraeric" <kyraeric@y...> wrote:
> Three new members have joined within the last month, but we still
> haven't heard anything about their projects... Would you like to
share
> a bit about your work for those of use who are interested?

--- In laser_design@yahoogroups.com, Laird D Kelly <laird.kelly@j...>
> BTW, has anybody built anything as cool-looking as this bad boy? 8-)
>
> http://www.brotron.com/gallery1.html
> video 'commercial' (5Mb MOV) at:
> http://www.brotron.com/Movies/DRay.html
>

Wow, not a bad case.  Personally, I'm just working on the guts of a
system, and have my schematics almost finished, I just need to work up
the cash for some of the testing equipment.

I've not put much thought into the casing, just figured I'd
manufacture one out of PVC or something similar, though it'd be nice
to be able to build something that looks that nice!

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:22:09 PDT Laird D Kelly <laird.kelly@...>
writes:
>
>
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:08:02 -0000 "kyraeric" <kyraeric@...>
> writes:
> > Three new members have joined within the last month, but we still
> > haven't heard anything about their projects... Would you like to
> > share a bit about your work for those of use who are interested?
> >
>
> Currently working on: getting a better-paying job *g* and refurbing
> a slightly mouse-chewed Laser Challenge Pro set (just need new
> cables and to patch the vinyl vest)
>

BTW, has anybody built anything as cool-looking as this bad boy? 8-)

http://www.brotron.com/gallery1.html
video 'commercial' (5Mb MOV) at:
http://www.brotron.com/Movies/DRay.html

(back to lurking until I have something useful to contribute *g*)


       ._,                        INET laird.kelly@...
     C(O-O)@   Sholem aleichem    FIDO 1:138/255, 1:123/140
--o00-(_)-00o--------------------------------------------- ]:)
WSU Master Gardener, GOA, NAR #77280, UPCHUG, *Team AMiGA*
"Micro$oft Mobile Manor", Purdy, Wa - 1 mile north of Mary Kay LeTourneau

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:08:02 -0000 "kyraeric" <kyraeric@...>
writes:
> Three new members have joined within the last month, but we still
> haven't heard anything about their projects... Would you like to
> share a bit about your work for those of use who are interested?
>

Currently working on: getting a better-paying job *g* and refurbing a
slightly mouse-chewed Laser Challenge Pro set (just need new cables and
to patch the vinyl vest)



       ._,                        INET laird.kelly@...
     C(O-O)@   Sholem aleichem    FIDO 1:138/255, 1:123/140
--o00-(_)-00o--------------------------------------------- ]:)
WSU Master Gardener, GOA, NAR #77280, UPCHUG, *Team AMiGA*
"Micro$oft Mobile Manor", Purdy, Wa - 1 mile north of Mary Kay LeTourneau

Three new members have joined within the last month, but we still
haven't heard anything about their projects... Would you like to share
a bit about your work for those of use who are interested?

I've finally nailed down the reason why longe focal distances seem
to get longer ranges.  Basically, your focal length is proportional
to your tolerance for errors, in a nearl linear fashion.  Thus if
there is an error in your lens assembly of x, and you have a focal
length of 50mm, the same error at 150mm would be x/3.

This may or may not be important to a given gun, based on how it is
constructed.  As I am planning on building mine by hand (as most
people probably are), this may mean that we introduce a lot of
error, and thus, we'll quickly loose our ability to aim the gun.
However, depending on the lens assemblies design, this could go down
considerably.

I'll post something on the proposed lens assembly fairly soon.

Also, everyone please welcome our newest member!

I've spent a lot of time looking for cheap places to print PCB's, as
most places want an obscene amount of money for them.  I've found
that Futurlec offers inexpensive boards, though they are limited to
double sided.  The best feature seems to be their prototype board.
Single sided, no solder-mask, no silk screen, but only $4 each for a
3x3 board.

I plan on testing them out for a programmer I am building for the
AVR line of processors.  Basically I need a cheap programmer anyway
(as I don't want to pay $50+ for a professional one), and I can
assemble the parts for under $10.

I'll let you know how my milage is.

As a note, I did order my AVR's from Futurlec, and they took a while
to ship, for only $3 flat shipping charge though, it wasn't bad.
The parts arrived in perfect condition in custom cut IC static
boxes.  Other than the time, I was very pleased.

Link: http://futurlec.com/

All lenses are double convex

Lens Theory
-----------
For a tag gun, if our magnification is 3x or less, it's a decent
ranged weapon, for more than 3x, it's a close combat (pistol like).

Magnification = (250mm / Focal Length) + 1

and once again we need to match the following equation:

Radius of lens / Focal length = tan(Half width angle)

------------------------------------------------------------

So here is what we can do with our highest quality emitters, here is
a refresher on the emitter characteristics:

NAME ANGLE CURRENT  PRICE
Optek 18 10A/100mA $2.25/$1.95
Sli 15  1A/100mA $0.69/$0.59

Lenses seem to come with the following focal lengths, I give here
their magnifications, effective range, and the minimum diameter for
the emitters

Focal Length Magnification Range Min Diameter:Optek Sli
  50mm  6.00x  Short  32mm  26mm
100mm  3.50x  Medium  64mm  53mm
150mm  2.66x  Long  97mm  80mm
200mm  2.25x  Long  129mm  107mm
250mm  2.00x  Long  162mm  133mm
300mm  1.83x  Sniper  194mm  160mm
500mm  1.50x  Sniper  324mm  267mm

Given that 100mm is the highest realistic lens size (more than
3.5"), it seems silly to consider focal lengths in excess of 200mm.
For the sli, the 200mm focal length and a 100mm lens would probably
work.

Given common lens sizes of 38mm, 50mm, 75mm, and 100mm, here's what
I see as contenders

Lens (Dia x FL)  Optek Short/Long Sli Short/Long
38mm x 50mm  Short 	 Short
50mm x 100mm  Medium (Bad)  Medium
50mm x 150mm  N/A 	 Long (Bad)
75mm x 100mm  Medium 		 Medium (So/So)
75mm x 150mm  N/A 	 Medium (So/So)
100mm x 100mm  Medium (So/So)  Medium (Bad)
100mm x 150mm  Long (BITCHIN)  Long (So/So)
100mm x 200mm  N/A 	 Long (Ok)

So for short range weapons, the 38mm x 50mm seems the way to go, it
can be had purchased at the following site for $1.50
http://www.wardsci.com/EC/products/catalog/index.cfm?categoryID=2323

A medium range weapon ought to either sport a 50x100, or a 75x100.

Our only option for long seems to be 100x150, which is nearly
optimal for the Optek.  That lens on the optek ought to kick serious
ass.

You could also, for a cheaper gun, run a 100x200 on the Sli.

So now we have an easier lens to find, if we can get ahold of them
for a decent price.  I haven't yet found 50x100, 75x100, 100x150, or
100x200, if you have the time to help look.

My target is the 100x150 of course.

Has anyone who has used this before (Chris Siefert...) been able to
eliminated the idiotic wrapping which is applied to messages due to
the in-line ads?

I've been doing some research on uC's for the tag boards, and it
seems the the Atmel AVR line of uC's will be both the cheapest and
most powerful for our application.  In specific I'm looking at using
the AT90S2313 model.  It has an 8-bit and 7-bit I/O pins, 2K of
Flash program memory, 128B of SRAM on chip, and 128B of EEPROM,
programmable both through ISP, and the assembly code.

I've also put on order from amazon a book about AVR programming
which goes in depth on the AT90Sxxxx models, and a book from
O'Reilly on designing embedded hardware, in hopes that it will catch
me from falling into any common pitfalls.

Right now it looks like the best way to interface the AVR with the
rest of the system is to use the 7-bit pins as an address line, and
the 8-bit pins as data lines for a bus, using the uC as a bus master
which can control reads and writes to 64 different devices, which
ought to be more than enough for our purposes.

What kind of features would one want on a laser tag system?  I can
think of a few myself, but I am probably not thinking of all of
them, and this seems like an important thing to do before we get to
deep in designing a system.  These kind of concerns will dictate the
form and function of the circuits.

Here is my basic list, though I'd love it if you guys could fill in
your suggestions/nix ones of mine that aren't really needed.

Determine who shot whom
Calculate accuracy
Determine different types of hits (chest, shoulder, gun, etc)
Wide range of weapon choices
3+ team colors
Support for different games: Capture the Flag, "Vampire" (one team
has the ability to force others to switch teams)
Variable hit points, and shield points (shields regenerate over time)

I've set up a few links and files with some design information, so
that we have some initial content on this site.