I just wanted to take a moment to wish all of you who are either in or
speeding to January 1st....  HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
May the new year,decade,century,millennium bring you all that you wish for!

Slan Agat!
Skip Sommer

Hi All,

Since there is NO activity on this list, I figured I'd try and start a
discussion.  I'm relatively new to minatures and have just started my 15mm ACW
collection.  I've purchased the rules to Johnny Reb III, but haven't played a
  game yet.  So here's a couple of questions:

1)  Are there any JRIII scenario books out there?
2)  What color are Civil War cannons painted?
3)  What miniatures should I attempt to build and start with first?

I have traded for about 200 painted and based Confed's.
   I believe that they're based for Fire and Fury.  Is
this going to present a problem for me?

Thanks in advance.

Stacey Sobbe
Silver Lake, Wisconsin (if anyone cares).

>To: soviet1@...
>From: mingus@... (Mingus family)
>Subject: Re: [jriii] JRIII Scenario Books
>
>Stacey:
>
>There are lots of Johnny Reb II books out there that can EASILY be used for
JRIII by remembering that JRII uses 1 figure = 20 men and JRIII uses 1
figure=30 men. Also the time scale has changed from 15 minutes per turn to
20 minutes and the ground scale from 1 inch = 40 yards to 1 inch = 50 yards.
Easy to convert!!!
>
>I have a number of scenario books. On the Internet, look up The Last
Square. They're in Madison, WI and sell several GREAT scenario books from
George Anderson and Ryan Toews. Also, Bill Miller sells books via the Civil
War wargaming magazine, The Zouave. Get a subscription to this magazine -
it's a must (not just because they will be publishing a couple articles from
me - the mag is outstanding for ACW miniatures - cool pictures and scenarios
in EVERY issue).
>
>I use a wide mix of makers of minis - I try to mix them on stands
(especially for the South) to add more realism and variety. I have stands
with Yucca, Falcon, Old Glory, Stone Mountain, Essex, Vulcan Forge, Empire,
Musket Miniature, Minifigs, Frei Korps, Heritage, Fortress, Peter Pig, Polly
Oliver, Naismith Design, and several other 15mm makers. Of these, I
personally like musket Miniatures the best, and Naismith Design the least
(personal preference!).
>
>Fire and Fury basing is VERY similar to JRIII and can be interchanged
pretty much at will. The biggest difference is that with JRIII being
regimental in scale, you will need far more command stands if you wish to
assign a regimental color guard / office / drummer stand to EACH regiment
(which I have done with my 2000 man army). Fire & Fury uses one command
stand per brigade, so less are required.
>
>As far as cannons go, I'm certainly no expert, but for gaming purposes I
have always painted rifled guns gun metal black and smoothbores are painted
bronze (easy to discern on a table in the heat of battle when you want to
avoid moving infantry into double cannister distance of Napoleon Smoothbore
cannons - very, very deadly at close range. I've seen and noted references
to various color schemes for the trunions (military green for some Northern
batteries, natural wood (gray) color at times when fresh paint was scarce,
and in some cases for the South, an orangish-tan color for cannon wheel
spokes. I'd welcome comments from those reenactors and artillery experts on
this painting scheme. I'm sure that there are folks who know a whole lot
more on painting schemes for artillery than I do.
>
>warmest regards!
>
>Scott Mingus
>President
>North Coast Wargamers
>
>>From: soviet1@...
>>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>Since there is NO activity on this list, I figured I'd try and start a
>>discussion.  I'm relatively new to minatures and have just started my 15mm
ACW
>>collection.  I've purchased the rules to Johnny Reb III, but haven't played a
>> game yet.  So here's a couple of questions:
>>
>>1)  Are there any JRIII scenario books out there?
>>2)  What color are Civil War cannons painted?
>>3)  What miniatures should I attempt to build and start with first?
>>
>>I have traded for about 200 painted and based Confed's.
>>  I believe that they're based for Fire and Fury.  Is
>>this going to present a problem for me?
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>
>>Stacey Sobbe
>>Silver Lake, Wisconsin (if anyone cares).
>>
>>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>>
>>Was the salesman clueless?  Productopia has the answers.
>><a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/productopiacpc2 ">Click Here</a>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

jriii@onelist.com wrote:
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Was the salesman clueless?  Productopia has the answers.
> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/productopiacpc2 ">Click Here</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Stacey
     I've used the original JR & JR2 I've never seen JR3 so I can't
compare but I understand the mostly it is in scaling.
     As to scenarios you can convert most Fire & Fury  if you can break
down the OB into regimental scale. If you can't find specifics on the
regiments try breaking down from either brigade or division.
    I use the same figures for both rules as long as both sides are based
the same.
    Most CW cannons that I've seen have been painted green for Union and
Gray for CSA carriages . Paint your smoothbores bronze and rifles black.
    Although most seem to prefer using the same manufactures figures for
all, I prefer to mix them. You should put together a brigade (3 - 5
regts) and maybe a battery of artillery to get you started . You can
always expand from there.
    Hope this is of some help
     Joe
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________________
> Hi All,
>
> Since there is NO activity on this list, I figured I'd try and start a
> discussion.  I'm relatively new to minatures and have just started my 15mm ACW
> collection.  I've purchased the rules to Johnny Reb III, but haven't played a
>  game yet.  So here's a couple of questions:
>
> 1)  Are there any JRIII scenario books out there?
> 2)  What color are Civil War cannons painted?
> 3)  What miniatures should I attempt to build and start with first?
>
> I have traded for about 200 painted and based Confed's.
>   I believe that they're based for Fire and Fury.  Is
> this going to present a problem for me?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Stacey Sobbe
> Silver Lake, Wisconsin (if anyone cares).
>

I once asked John Hill about converting Johnny Reb II scenarios to Johnny
Reb III.  Here is his answer.

"The easiest way to convert regiments from JR II scenarios to JR III
scenarios,
is to simply remove one stand.  Hence a five stand 25 figure regiment will
convert to a four stand 20 figure regiment and a five stand 20 figure
regiment
will convert to a 16 figure, four stand regiment.  In the artillery example
you give, the JR II battery of 2 sections of Napoleons and one section of
10#
Parrots would be converted to one battery of three sections with mixed
guns."

I hope you find this helpful.

Curt Daniels
Burke, VA

At 07:42 27/01/00 -0500, Curt Daniels wrote:
>
>I once asked John Hill about converting Johnny Reb II scenarios to Johnny
>Reb III.  Here is his answer.
>
>"The easiest way to convert regiments from JR II scenarios to JR III
>scenarios, is to simply remove one stand.  Hence a five stand 25 figure
>regiment will convert to a four stand 20 figure regiment and a five stand 20
>figure regiment will convert to a 16 figure, four stand regiment.

This is the way I also found most useful, as the reduction in figure scale
vs ground scale would not be so noticeable. It does make artillery somewhat
less strong for each scenario, but that can be remedied by being a little
generous in combining sections into batteries.

However, most JR2 regiments consist of stands with 3-5 figs, while JR3
prefers 2-4. The rules recommend splitting regs of >16 figs into to
batallions of 8 + 12 figs. I would think this would make them too flexible
in C2, so I'm wondering if I should be heretical and make some 5-fig stands
anyway.

______________________________________________________________________
Geir Aalberg          geir@...             http://www.fandom.no/

We have been playing with JRIII for a few months now, and I have some
questions:

(1) Artillery seems especially deadly since the resulting morale check is made
with a modifier equal to the number of losses. We have had several regiments
rout immediately after taking their first Morale Checks for artillery fire
(First Loss, Fired on by Arty (w/ mod), possible stand loss)). I can see it
happening sometimes, but not on a regular basis to veteran infantry units...

(2) The +2 modifier for being charged while on Conditional Hold seems a little
harsh. I think a +1 would be more in line with the "confusion" theory,
otherwise that confusion is equated to the charged while forming modifier. I
would think that, in the case where a unit passes its BMP and forms to meet the
charge, there is no confusion, and thus no need for a modifier (after all, they
successfully formed and met the charge).

Mitch Land

>From: Mitchell Land <mitchell@...>
>
>We have been playing with JRIII for a few months now, and I have some
>questions:

I haven't played it much yet, so I can't be of help here. But for those who
do, please note that this list (in contrast to the other 8-10 OneLists I'm
on) is set up to reply only to the sender. Use "reply to all" when
answering - that way the rest of us can learn something too.

That may also be the reason of the low traffic. When all you see is
questions and no answers it is natural to assume that there is noone out there.
______________________________________________________________________
Geir Aalberg          geir@...             http://www.fandom.no/

Hello
Regarding the conversion from JRI to JRII to JRIII.
I have not remounted my figures from the JRI days.
JRIII calls for four stand Regiments so I just put
out four. During my JRI days I did one unit of six
figures per stand (they are very crowded)and I still
occasionally use that unit in JRIII. I see no reason
to rebase my figures when all I need do is remove one
stand. Now all I need do is paint up some new command
stands and I have some new regiments. As I create new
units I am now using 1" square stands. This allows me
to use the units for FnF. I prefer JRIII but in the
NW people play a lot of FnF. I have kept my cavalry
and artillery on the same bases also. I have not
noticed any effect on the flow of the game.
Good Gaming
DJ Coaltrain

I just realized that my response did not go to the list,
so here it is again.

--
Curt Daniels
Burke, VA


----------------------  Forwarded Message:  ---------------------
From:    g.c.daniels@...
To:      Geir Aalberg <geir@...>
Subject: Re: [jriii] JRIII Scenario Books
Date:    Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:11:28 +0000


John Hill offered an alternative for portraying larger
units where you used 5 or 6 or whatever stands per
regiment. There were modification for morale and command
for the big regiments. I'll look in my files and see if
I can find it.
--
Curt Daniels
Burke, VA

For those that do not like breaking lkarge regiments
into two battalions, here are John Hill's optional rules
for large regiments.

"JR III: AN ALTERNATE PORTRAYAL OF BIG REGIMENTS.
JR III suggests that big units be portrayed as
individual battalions so as to maintain the four stands
per unit mounting. While this works fine for US Regulars
or 1862 to 1864 veteran units, it works less well for
big 1861 regiments. The problem with these units is that
in 1861 there would not be a sufficient supply of
experienced junior officers to enable the units to
function as individual battalions. They were forced to
fight as big clumsy mobs. To reflect this, try using
this alternate regimental mounting.
One way, as outlined in the Rules, is to break the big
units into separate battalions. But as an alternative
mounting, more than four stands could be used. Taking
that tack...the per stand morale modifiers would be:
5, or 6 stand unit: (-2) per stand lost
7, or 8 stand unit: (-1) per stand lost

This is both good news and bad. The good news is
obvious: the lower morale penalty per stand and a very
high muskety blast from these big regiments.

The bad news is less obvious. Since the unit still takes
morale checks for each stand lost --- keep that rule --
its total morale checks per percentage of unit lost is
higher than for a conventional sized unit. Nothing
unhistorical there, as these big units, when they
appeared, were often very fragile. Also, when the
inevitable "snake eyes" are rolled and these big
regiments rout, they will leave a big hole in the line.

A few other special rules should be used for these big
regiments.
1. In my opinion, these big regiments would be difficult
to reform if they fell into disorder. Hence, if they do
go into disorder, they would have to make a tactical
competence roll to reform. Likewise, to reform from
skirmish, a tactical competence roll would be required.

2. Regardless of unit quality, a big regiment would take
a full turn to change from one non-disorder formation to
another.

This methodology could also be used to portray the
occasional late war merged regiments, which could
contain as many as 20, or more, regimental fragments.
Such as mob, depending on junior officer availability
may also not be able to operate as individual
battalions.

This should be considered as an Optional Rule...to be
used where appropriate. And like all Optional Rules,
other complexities may arrise that are not covered in
the Rules. If such problems cannot be logically
resolved; a roll of the die can resolve it."

--
Curt Daniels
Burke, VA

Hi Listers,

I'd like to thank everyone who provided some answers to my basing and
scenario questions I posed last week.  I'm happy also to see some more
action on this list.  I've started to paint my Zouaves as the 72nd
Pennsylvania (from details in an Osprey book) at Antietam.  I don't have
a JRIII scenario of the battle to look at, but other sources has the
regiment at about 400 men.  Do I paint 14 men for the regiment and do
three stands of 4 and one stand of 2 or what?  Also, am I being too anal
retentive on my painting?  Do you guys paint each regiment to
specifically match how they did historically?  This could be a lot of
work, but look very cool in the end.

Also, mention was made of the scenario books that the Last Square
sells.  I'll be stopping by there on Sunday (I fortunately live in the
great state of Wisconsin) and plan on buying a scenario book or two.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks again,
Stacey Sobbe

Greetings everyone;
I am getting ready to play my first game of JRIII and was interested in
asking you all if you know of any good "beginner's scenarios".  Small
numbers of figures, preferably mixed infantry and cavalry or just infantry.

Thank you in advance for
any help you can give me.

Skip Sommer
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

James,

You could try most of the Valley battles (Kernstown, Port Republic, Cross Keys,
Front Royale).

Mitch

On Wednesday, February 09, 2000 4:52 PM, James Sommer
[SMTP:fiannafail3@...] wrote:
> From: "James Sommer" <fiannafail3@...>
>
> Greetings everyone;
> I am getting ready to play my first game of JRIII and was interested in
> asking you all if you know of any good "beginner's scenarios".  Small
> numbers of figures, preferably mixed infantry and cavalry or just infantry.
>
> Thank you in advance for
> any help you can give me.
>
> Skip Sommer
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts.
> Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine's Day gift?
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Hey James:

Another small scale wargaming suggestion is to pick a favorite battle (in my
case Gettysburg since one of my direct ancestors died there defending the
Union). Then, you can model selected portions of the selected battle
depending upon the number of figures you have. Use a good reference for the
number of troops per regiment, assign 1 miniature figure to each 30 men in
the actual regiment and one gun stand with correct number of crew per John
Hill's rules, then map the terrain onto graph paper or similar.

I've played some VERY cool Gettysburg mini-games over the years (Brickyard
scenario, Devil's Den, Spangler's Spring, Parr Field, Wheatfield, etc.). You
don't need the massive amoun tof figures that you would need to play larger
Gettysburg games.

I often use maps and articles from various Civil War magazines I subscribe
to (North & South and Blue & Gray have excellent maps) for Gettysburg
mini-games. Cross-reference this with Official Records, books, and other
references to get the statistics and scale you need, then go off and whip
the Rebels (just kidding to all my gaming friends from south of the
Mason-Dixon line).

Happy Gaming!

Scott Mingus
North Coast Wargamers of greater Cleveland


>James,
>
>You could try most of the Valley battles (Kernstown, Port Republic, Cross
Keys,
>Front Royale).
>
>Mitch
>
>On Wednesday, February 09, 2000 4:52 PM, James Sommer
>[SMTP:fiannafail3@...] wrote:
>> From: "James Sommer" <fiannafail3@...>
>>
>> Greetings everyone;
>> I am getting ready to play my first game of JRIII and was interested in
>> asking you all if you know of any good "beginner's scenarios".  Small
>> numbers of figures, preferably mixed infantry and cavalry or just infantry.
>>
>> Thank you in advance for
>> any help you can give me.
>>
>> Skip Sommer
>> ______________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>>
>> $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts.
>> Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine's Day gift?
>> Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more.
>> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NewPetopia2 ">Click Here</a>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
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>Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW.
><a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative5 ">Click Here</a>
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>

Hello all,  I am new to this list and new to JR III as well.  We played a
quick game to get the feel of the rules.  We put six veteran regiments and
four sections of artillery on each side.  Of course, we have lots of
questions:

1)  Is the charge bonus based on the terrain you start in, or is it affected
by the terrain you end up in?  In our game I charged across an open field and
up a hill into some woods.  I rolled a high charge bonus and my opponent felt
the woods should have reduced that bonus.

2)  My opponent had another regiment within 2" of his unit on the hill, but
it was facing 90 degrees away from the oncoming charge.  We decided that it
would not support the defender.  Is that correct?  Or should that unit
provide support?  and if it does, then does it need to turn to face?  Or can
it refuse its flank?

3)  I supported my charge with another regiment.  My point unit won the
impact dice down, and had enough movement left to contact the shaken enemy
regiment.  However, now we were in melee.  My opponent and I fought 2 rounds.
  In the second round of melee, he routed and was thus destroyed.  My unit
went shaken and recoiled.  Does my supporting unit also go shaken?  Does each
unit roll the morale separately, thus giving my supporting unit a chance to
remain unshaken?

4)  When you charge a unit, and it recoils, must you always attempt contact
with that unit, or is it possible that you might contact a fresh enemy first?
  In this case, it appeared that if my opponent moved straight back he would
go partially through that friendly unit's flank (you know, the one that was
at a 90 dgree angle to my charge.) Would my unit now strike that new enemy
unit in flank?  Can 2 friendly units actually be left intermixed like that?
We decided to have his recoiling unit fall back at an angle away from the
unit behind it and my unit followed his, but we really felt the rules were
not specific in this case.

Thanks a lot (in advance),
Robert

Hi everybody,
I sometimes wrote to Johnny Hill to have some clarification and I
think the following file is the last mail I got from him. It might be
useful to some of you.
Ciao, Vezio


<<<<1)  Page 38: If a unit with form order is charged, it must go in
conditional  hold, but at page 44 the rule doesn't say anything about
CH.

The rules on page 44 expand on the basic rule presented on page 38.
The  unit, per page 38 goes to Conditional Hold.  The rules on page
44 are there  to held determine if the defending unit, that has gone
to Conditional Hold,  is able to complete its formation change or
not.  Note that the second part,  "IF NOT MARKED FORM...." does refer
again to Conditional Hold.

Page 38 : a unit under move order, if charged goes on CH tests for
its BMP,  but why does it always have to try to change formation and
suffer the +2 for  being charged while forming ?  What if the unit is
in line formation or in  battle column, they're ideal formations to
fight in hand to hand combat?

If the unit is indeed in line or battle column and is facing the
right way,  you are correct is assuming that there is no reason to
attempt to change  formation.  However, if it was in march column or
facing the wrong direction,  the player may want to attempt a
formation change.  It is optional.

3)  Another contradiction is between page 49 and the tables about the
"end of  charge volley". Do both the sides fire it, always with or
without the bonuses  and penalties (distance, previous fire, etc.) or
do they fire always two dice  ?

The end of charge volley rule is poorly explained.  All
bonus/penalties are  taken into account except for range.  There is
no extra die for close range,  or is one die lost due to long range.

4) How does the fire penetration work when a unit fires on a
skirmisher line?

If a unit is less than two inches behind a skirmish line, it suffers
the same  casualties as the skirmish line.  However, beyond that two
inch distance,  there is no penetration.  A firing unit, however
could fire over or through  the skirmish line in an attempt to hit
the unit behind it at area fire (lose  one die, page 7)



5)  What does happen when a charging regiment breaks his opponent
and,  before it ends its move, has new possible targets, can he
change its  direction? And what if it impacts an enemy rgt.  A unit
that was behind the  one broken, on its path, can the new defender
fire, can you please explain?

  The charging unit cannot change its direction.  If the original
target is  broken and is fleeing, the charging unit will attempt to
chase it.  If that  move brings it into contact with another
regiment, resolve it as if it was  any other charge.  The "new"
defender would roll for defensive fire, and  there could be a new
dice down for impact.

As always, thank you for your interest in Johnny Reb III,  John
Hill>>>>>>>>>>>

Hello...

Well, at the risk of looking like a complete moron...I have just
discovered the JRIII One List. Duh...

Anyway, this would be the obvious place to post JR III rule
clarifications, scenario ideas and the like.  I receive many
questions by email, and usually answer that person directly.
However, it seems to me, that it would be appropriate to also post
the question and answer here. One suggestion I might add is all rule
inquries be limited to one question per inquiry...this way specific
rule threads can be followed. Also it is  easier to find the time to
do a quick one question/one answer note.

Now, some JR III news...in the latest issue of the Zouave there is a
complimentary one page insert of an "alternative" JR III Reference
Chart.  It was designed by Lee Barnes and contains a lot more info --
gleaned from the rules -- plus some extra ideas. It is well done and
is not copyrighted, so feel free to make more copies.  It is not
official, but it was coordinated with me, so feel free to use it.

Also, at Cold Wars, P.J.O'Neal showed me an alternative JR III charge
sequence -- presented as a "charge results table" -- that look like
it had a lot of potential. I will be recommending he also offer it to
the Zouave.

One of the design criteria of JR III was that it be very mallable in
that different ways of doing things could be pluged in and out.
While, as the designer, I may be the source for the "official" rules
intrepretation...it does not mean I am the source for the "best"
interpretation. With JR, as with many things, many of the best ideas
come from the gamers themselves.

John Hill

By the way, John, I have adapted the basic concept for JRIII for a private
(in-house only) variant for Plains Indians Wars (those Sioux are nasty in
melee!!!). I'm still working to perfect it, and when I do, I'l lshoot you a
copy for your opinion. I stress this is never for sale or copyright
infringment - it's merely an expansion of tables and charts to add the tenor
of cavalry warfare 10-20 years after Brandy Station. I'm also playing around
with JRIII for American Revolution, changing the tactics and formations a
little, and modifying tables again for the older weaponry.

To everyone, this past Saturday "North Coast Wargamers" played the 15mm
Johnny RebIII battle of Honey Hill (wonderful little scenario from George
Anderson and Ryan Toews with marines, navy, militia, black infantry,
regulars, etc.). This time it was a smashing Union victory.

We play JRIII at least once a month here in greater Cleveland - the public
is always always always welcome - take a family vacation, drop off the wife
and kids at the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame, and drive over to join our game!!!!

Scott Mingus


>From: "John Hill" <hilljhn@...>
>
>Hello...
>
>Well, at the risk of looking like a complete moron...I have just
>discovered the JRIII One List. Duh...
>
>Anyway, this would be the obvious place to post JR III rule
>clarifications, scenario ideas and the like.  I receive many
>questions by email, and usually answer that person directly.
>However, it seems to me, that it would be appropriate to also post
>the question and answer here. One suggestion I might add is all rule
>inquries be limited to one question per inquiry...this way specific
>rule threads can be followed. Also it is  easier to find the time to
>do a quick one question/one answer note.
>
>Now, some JR III news...in the latest issue of the Zouave there is a
>complimentary one page insert of an "alternative" JR III Reference
>Chart.  It was designed by Lee Barnes and contains a lot more info --
>gleaned from the rules -- plus some extra ideas. It is well done and
>is not copyrighted, so feel free to make more copies.  It is not
>official, but it was coordinated with me, so feel free to use it.
>
>Also, at Cold Wars, P.J.O'Neal showed me an alternative JR III charge
>sequence -- presented as a "charge results table" -- that look like
>it had a lot of potential. I will be recommending he also offer it to
>the Zouave.
>
>One of the design criteria of JR III was that it be very mallable in
>that different ways of doing things could be pluged in and out.
>While, as the designer, I may be the source for the "official" rules
>intrepretation...it does not mean I am the source for the "best"
>interpretation. With JR, as with many things, many of the best ideas
>come from the gamers themselves.
>
>John Hill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds!  Get rates as low as 0.0%
>Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.  Apply NOW!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/937/1/_/556750/_/953254316/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>

For those interested in JR III, also check the "acwmb" OneList.
Though open to discussion of all ACW miniature rules, its does have
an active group of established JRIII players. For JR III beginners,
the older posts are an excellent source of rule discussions and
clarifications.  Also see the Johnny Reb Web Site...any good search
engine should bring it up, run by Grandiosity.  Though, it is seldom
updated, it is a good place for reviewing earlier rule discussion.

John Hill

Due to a heavy work schedule, Jeff Russ has canceled his Cannon
Fodder HMGS-Great Lakes regional mini-con set for May 6th. As a
result, I will remove my eGroups jriii onelist calendar posting for a
JRIII simulation of Chantilly (Ox Hill) that I was set to run at this
mini-con. I'll run this game instead 10/21 at the Western Reserve
Historical Society's year-long Civil War exhibit in Cleveland. This
will be posted to the calendar.

I would encourage all Johnny RebIII players to use this calendar to
announce games you are hosting or playing in. I for one travel
frequently for my job, and I have had the privilege of visiting other
gaming groups, wargaming stores, etc. on several occasions when I
travel. The calendar feature of eGroups is an excellent way to keep
fellow gamers aware of when JRIII games are scheduled just in case
someone might live nearby or be travelling in the area during the
game.

By the way, I would encourage any of you fellow Johnny Reb gamers out
there to subscribe to Ivor Janci's fantastic full color magazine,
"The Zouave". Some of the better known JRIII scenario authors
frequently contribute new scenarios to this outstanding mag,
including Bill Miller, John Hill himself on occasion, George Anderson
from Scotland, and several others. There are also scenarios for other
regimental level games (such as Fields of Honor) that can easily be
adapted for JRIII.

Over the past couple of years, JRIII scenarios for several battles
have appeared in The Zouave, including Ball's Bluff, Belmont, and
others. In issue #52, I'll be contributing an updated version of an
older (1990) Johnny Reb 1 scenario for Bull Run that I've modernized
as a JRIII game. If you have JRIII scenarios, you may want to contact
Ivor Janci about submitting them for his publication - I know that he
welcomes new writers and scenario authors.

Happy gaming from America's North Coast, where the snow has FINALLY
melted from the shores of Lake Erie!

Scott Mingus
North Coast Wargamers of greater Cleveland

Scott,

Chantilly would be a neat little fight...even without the rainstorm...have
you considered running the game at Historicon?

John Hill

Here are some questions we generated from a game tonight:

(1) How do you handle artillery given a Disengage order?

(2) When a regiment with a refused stand fires, do those figures count? Can they
fire on their own?

(3) Can Prone troops on Hold stand up and fire during Moving Fires?

(4) When a large regiment using the large regiment rules is reduced to 4 or less
regiments, can it form and move in the same activation?

(5) Can you order a Shaken unit to advance in anticipation of passing your rally
check?

Thanks,

Mitchell Land


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Having run many many JRIII games, and playing the system for 15 years, I will
take a stab at these, since I know John Hill is out of town and may not see
this for several more days.


<<<< (1) How do you handle artillery given a Disengage order?>>>>

If limbered you would be crazy to use this order, so I am assuming the
artillery is unlimbered.  Essentially, when you place a disengage order on an
unlim. artillery unit, the crews will disengage just like any other unit.
Essentially they are leaving the guns and running for it.  Not the best order
for artillery unless you expect to retake the guns, and want to keep the
crews safe.  You may just want to stay put, and fire, since you will loose
the impact during a charge anyway, and will most likely run during that phase.


  <<<<(2) When a regiment with a refused stand fires, do those figures count?
Can they fire on their own?>>>>

We have always allowed all stands to fire seperately as necessary.  If a
regiment has one stand refused, it can fire 3 stands at one target, and the
refused stand at another.  For that matter, we allow units to split fire on
multiple units based upon where the threats are to the firing stands.
Skirmishers for instance, can seldom fire on the same target due to the
frontage.  Calculate each group of stands or stand seperately and roll the
dice seperately.  You will find your fire power is greatly diminished though,
so you are best served by concentrating your fire on one target.

Units which must refuse a stand against a threatening unit are very
vulnerable due to the low rate of fire to stop a charge (as they should be).
This is where reserves are handy.

  <<<<(3) Can Prone troops on Hold stand up and fire during Moving Fires?>>>>

Technically no.  Prone troops can only stand up during the movement phase
(takes 1 MP).  If they did stand they could fire during moving fires.

Option:  My group prefers to allow units to stand at anytime (during
movement)  and fire with no penalty to firing, and are allowed to fire during
holding fires.  We also allow a formed unit(in good morale) to stand and face
a charge with no penalty as long as the charging unit began it's charge from
3" away or more.  Having reenacted for years, I feel very little time is lost
to stand, reform the ranks and deliver several volleys.  John placed the
prone rules there to prevent people from "rules lawyering" the game, and
doing unrealistic things.  If a unit is prone and charged by a unit which is
less than 3" away, it is affected as in the rules. (You may also want to use
a BMP roll to see if a unit successfully stands with no penalties).

  <<<<(4) When a large regiment using the large regiment rules is reduced to 4
or less regiments, can it form and move in the same activation?>>>>

Personally I have not had this come up to often.  I have always found most
"large" regiments to be green, so they would effected the same way.  If the
unit is not green, I can not see any reason why they could not form and move
in the same turn as long as they have 4 stands or less (since this is a
function of size and the challenge of manuvering a large group of men, and
keeping the ranks dressed).

  <<<<(5) Can you order a Shaken unit to advance in anticipation of passing
your rally check?>>>>

Can be done, but failure to rally during the rally phase would cause an
immediate morale check to see if the unit routs.  The unit would also have to
go to conditional hold if the rally failed.  (John has always played it this
way, and I believe it is in the rules somewhere).

I hope this helps,

Doug

(1) Can Skirmishers be counted as supporting infantry units in an offensive or
defensive charge situation?

(2) Can skirmishing infantry charge? (I know cavalry can't, but I didn't see
anything about infantry.)

(3) When measuring fire distance do you measure from center of mass to center
of mass? Or, can you measure from any part of the firer to any part of the
target?

Thanks



===========================
Mitchell Land
mitchell@...
webmaster@...
PUBLIC KEY AVAILABLE @ http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/
====================

Thanks for the answers.

>
> <<<< (1) How do you handle artillery given a Disengage order?>>>>
>
> If limbered you would be crazy to use this order, so I am assuming the
> artillery is unlimbered.  Essentially, when you place a disengage order on an
>
> unlim. artillery unit, the crews will disengage just like any other unit.
> Essentially they are leaving the guns and running for it.  Not the best order
>
> for artillery unless you expect to retake the guns, and want to keep the
> crews safe.  You may just want to stay put, and fire, since you will loose
> the impact during a charge anyway, and will most likely run during that
phase.

But there is no Bonus Dice number for them to roll. Do they simply use the
equivalent infantry roll?

We played it that the Artillery simply limbered up (half move) and ran half
move. Our problem was with the above, i.e., no bonus move meant that the
charging infantry unit would almost certainly contact them.

Also, along that vein, here was the situation. An infantry regiment charged the
guns, but the guns Disengaged (we played as I outlined above). The guns ran
behind some friendly infantry (too far away to support them, but close enough
to hide behind). The charging infantry continued to charge and impacted the
friendly infantry. The friendly infantry lost its DDFI and ran back and the
charging infantry continued its charge and contacted the guns. The guns lost
their DDFI and ran farther back and the charging infantry continued its charge
and impacted the friendly infantry again. Since that infantry already ran once,
this impact resulted in instant melee (in which the friendly infantry was
destroyed for the loss of a single figure in the charging infantry!). Did we
play that correctly?

>  <<<<(3) Can Prone troops on Hold stand up and fire during Moving Fires?>>>>
>
> Option:  My group prefers to allow units to stand at anytime (during
> movement)  and fire with no penalty to firing, and are allowed to fire during
>
> holding fires.  We also allow a formed unit(in good morale) to stand and face
>
> a charge with no penalty as long as the charging unit began it's charge from
> 3" away or more.  Having reenacted for years, I feel very little time is lost

We played that the Prone infantry could stand and fire, but at 1 die reduced.

>  <<<<(5) Can you order a Shaken unit to advance in anticipation of passing
> your rally check?>>>>
>
> Can be done, but failure to rally during the rally phase would cause an
> immediate morale check to see if the unit routs.  The unit would also have to
>
> go to conditional hold if the rally failed.  (John has always played it this
> way, and I believe it is in the rules somewhere).

I thought that failure to rally a shaken unit simply resulted in No Change in
status for a Shaken unit?

Mitchell
<<
  >
  > <<<< (1) How do you handle artillery given a Disengage order?>>>>
  >
  > If limbered you would be crazy to use this order, so I am assuming the
  > artillery is unlimbered.  Essentially, when you place a disengage order on
an
  >
  > unlim. artillery unit, the crews will disengage just like any other unit.
  > Essentially they are leaving the guns and running for it.  Not the best
order
  >
  > for artillery unless you expect to retake the guns, and want to keep the
  > crews safe.  You may just want to stay put, and fire, since you will loose
  > the impact during a charge anyway, and will most likely run during that
  phase.

  <<<But there is no Bonus Dice number for them to roll. Do they simply use
the
  equivalent infantry roll?

  We played it that the Artillery simply limbered up (half move) and ran half
  move. Our problem was with the above, i.e., no bonus move meant that the
  charging infantry unit would almost certainly contact them.>>>>

Unlimbered gun crews would disengage like infantry with infantry bonuses.
Limbered guns would not usually be ordered to disengage, since you can only
run a limber/gun and caissons so fast.  Doing this would most likely disable
most of the battery anyway due to damage, broken axles, injured horses ect.
Essentially, if you leave you guns in place too long without support, you
should loose them.  Try using retiring by prolong for unlimbered guns, or do
not put the guns in a dangerous spot.  Guns without support were very
vulnerable in this period.

  <<<<Also, along that vein, here was the situation. An infantry regiment
charged the
  guns, but the guns Disengaged (we played as I outlined above). The guns ran
  behind some friendly infantry (too far away to support them, but close
enough
  to hide behind). The charging infantry continued to charge and impacted the
  friendly infantry. The friendly infantry lost its DDFI and ran back and the
  charging infantry continued its charge and contacted the guns. The guns lost
  their DDFI and ran farther back and the charging infantry continued its
charge
  and impacted the friendly infantry again. Since that infantry already ran
once,
  this impact resulted in instant melee (in which the friendly infantry was
  destroyed for the loss of a single figure in the charging infantry!). Did we
  play that correctly?>>>>

With the exception of the guns not being able to limber under a disengage
order (essentially disengaging means to schedadle, and run with no mind to
formation.  The plan is to get away and reform somewhere safer), sounds good.
  If a unit looses impact and then is contacted, a melee will result.  Unless
the loosing unit is shaken or routed, they fight back at normal strength.
Melees are bloody and should be avoided IMHO.  Most of my battlefields have
broken terrain everywhere, with very little actual open terrain.  This has
the effect of cutting down the charge bonus to two dice or less, reducing the
chance of a charging unit contacting a unit which lost impact.  Remember, if
a unit retires behind a supporting unit, the supporting unit may get a chance
to shoot.  Check the distance the unit would fire at, and determine if the
retiring unit clears prior to the volley.

  >  <<<<(3) Can Prone troops on Hold stand up and fire during Moving
Fires?>>>>
  >
  > Option:  My group prefers to allow units to stand at anytime (during
  > movement)  and fire with no penalty to firing, and are allowed to fire
during
  >
  > holding fires.  We also allow a formed unit(in good morale) to stand and
face
  >
  > a charge with no penalty as long as the charging unit began it's charge
from
  > 3" away or more.  Having reenacted for years, I feel very little time is
lost

  <<We played that the Prone infantry could stand and fire, but at 1 die
reduced.>>

Works for me.  Historically, units went prone under a lot of conditions to
escape enemy fire, and even fought on their bellies.  That is why we do not
penalize a unit for standing and firing, unless charged from 3" or less.
John does spell out his rule fairly well in the rules.  Nice thing with the
rules is the ability to make changes to suit your group without affecting the
outcome.

  >  <<<<(5) Can you order a Shaken unit to advance in anticipation of passing
  > your rally check?>>>>
  >
  > Can be done, but failure to rally during the rally phase would cause an
  > immediate morale check to see if the unit routs.  The unit would also have
to
  >
  > go to conditional hold if the rally failed.  (John has always played it
this
  > way, and I believe it is in the rules somewhere).

  <<>>>


Ok, nothing in the current rules.  In the past, John has used the above in
games, and in past additions of the rules.  We do the same.  Normally, a
shaken unit will have no change when it fails to rally.  However, if you try
to order men forward who are not too sure about staying on the field
(shaken),  they may decide they had enough.  Thus the immediate morale check
against rout if they fail to pass their rally roll, and you ordered them to
advance.  Passing everything, they stay in place and do not advance (unless
in good order).

Yours,

Doug

In a message dated 03/29/2000 9:20:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mitchell@... writes:

<<<<(1) Can Skirmishers be counted as supporting infantry units in an
offensive or
  defensive charge situation?>>>>

No.  Since they are in such extended order, they will have no real impact on
the bigger action.  Think about it, you are standing in line with 400 of your
comrades, and you look to your left, right or behind you and see a handful of
men seperated by over 5 yards each.  Would you feel secure and supported?


  <<<<(2) Can skirmishing infantry charge? (I know cavalry can't, but I didn't
see
  anything about infantry.)>>>>

Normally, skirmishers are not allowed to advance to within close range (2")
of the enemy.  They would never consider charging formed troops (suicide).
They may charge other skirmishers or unsupported artillery batteries (single
battery).


  <<<<(3) When measuring fire distance do you measure from center of mass to
center
  of mass? Or, can you measure from any part of the firer to any part of the
  target?>>>>

I usually measure from the center of the unit to the closet stand of an enemy
unit, or average the whole.  If the majority of the firing unit is normal
range, then take normal.  If majority is close then use close.  There are
times when you may have to fire seperate parts of your unit (depending how
you like to play).  Use your best judgement, and play the same way
consistently.

Doug

In this month's issue (#51) of The Zouave, veteran wargamer Lee Barnes has
written a modified Johnny RebIII movement/fire sheet of tables. These are
organized a little differently than John Hill has in the original rules set,
but contain the same information. Pick up a copy if you want to view this
interesting derivation of the tables. Lee has added a few tables directly
from John's rules book onto the sheet (officer kills table for example) so
that it reduces the need to refer to the book constantly. He deleted John's
pictures of formations, stands, etc., and replaced them with more tables.
There are a couple of minor errors (such as normal-range sharpshooter needs
to be 7, not 21, which is the long-range figure) and some annoying little
typographic and spelling errors, but the charts are a little more useful for
experienced gamemasters and players who do not need the pictures of formations.

Issue #51 is on sale now - check with Ivor Janci for subscription info. Nice
job, Lee!

Scott Mingus

The reason for the Sharpshooter normal range to be at 21" is
sharpshooters shoot 3 dice out to 21". So to save space I put the
range out to 21" instead of attempting to put in + one dice at long
range for Sharpshooters.  See JRIII rules P 14 bullet four.

'Shartshooter fire does not suffer the "deduct 1 dice" penalty for
long range.'

Therefore putting the normal range out to 21" and deleting the long
range, the same information could be put in a smaller space.

>typographic and spelling errors
I used a lot of short cuts to enable the charts to fix on two pages.
Experienced JRIII players will find the charts more usefull than the
standard charts.  One the most usedful charts are the moral charts.
The orginal JR charts had left out Formation Impact Morale Modifiers
which during a charge with the old charts subject to looking in the
main rules.

I also added to the Weapon Ranges charts: Mixed Muskets, Flinlock
Muskets, Sharshooter Rifle,  12# Whitworth and from Johnny Hill's web
site on JRIII the 12# Hositizer.nd

I have another article to be published on Brother Against Brother
battle report on the wargame I ran at the fall Reconn of the
Minnesota Miniture Gaming Assoication at MMGA.org.

I am working an article to be published in the Zouave on Randomized
troop strenght, morale, and weapons for regiment games.  My son,
Mike, and I use to fight battles where all you are given is
regimental names and very little other information.  We used both
Piquet Hallowed Ground and JRIII.

It looks like Scot Mingus have alot in common:
Started a JRIII, my is over ten years old, wargaming group.
We both like JRIII and Brother Against Brother.
And we both have articles in the Zouave, but it sounds like Scott has
a lot more articles than I do.

--- In jriii@egroups.com, mingus@n...  wrote:
> There are a couple of minor errors (such as normal-range
sharpshooter needs
> to be 7, not 21, which is the long-range figure) and some annoying
little
> typographic and spelling errors, but the charts are a little more
useful for
> experienced gamemasters and players who do not need the pictures of
formations.