--- In hpmush-logs@yahoogroups.com, "echidna006" <echidna006@y...> wrote:
--- In HP-Logs@y..., Pixie <kinomoto_touya@y...> wrote:
OOC Seminar: Plot Approval
Run by: Pixie
Summary: Basic plotting techniques; questions you should ask
yourself before submitting an idea for approval; how to start small
and
build from that.

Darren hides in the back of the classroom.

Whelan says "I'll tell Christy what happened. She is teaching."

You say "We'll post a log too."

Whelan says "Oh yeah."

You say "Since there's so few people, feel free to interrupt me with
questions. But don't be surprised if I say it's on the agenda
already. :)"

Harry okies. :)

You say "So the first topic: What is a plot? Seems like it would be
self-evident, but sometimes it gets confused. To me, a plot is a
story-thread which has some kind of lasting effect on one or more
characters, or winds through more than one RP session. In other
words,
shopping at Honeydukes one time... probably not a plot. Shopping at
Honeydukes and discovering a new favorite candy for your character,
could
very well be. Shopping at Honeydukes in the process of searching
for a
birthday present for your friend, could very well be."

You say "Sometimes it's hard to figure out ahead of time what is and
isn't a
plot. And for the most part, it doesn't matter. That leads into the
next
topic, which is what sorts of plots do you need approval for, and
which do
you not."

Harry grabs a chair and nods.

Whelan grabs a chair not to be out done.

Joseph sits down in one of inflatable chairs and nods.

You say "(What I'm about to say applies to OCs definitely, and FCs
except for
in certain cases. I'll try to note where the FC rules are slightly
different.)"

You say "Plots that are turned 'inward': dating someone, hating
someone --
things involving how the characters feel, are not going to need to
be
approved. Now, for FCs this is slightly different; the admins would
probably
have a cow if Snape tried to hook up with McGonagall, for instance."

Whelan says "Poor Sinny!"

Darren says "Poor McG. :)"

Pixie agrees with Darren. :)

Joseph laughs. "McGonagall would probaly slap him."

Whelan nods to Darren.

Tengu says "Poor Snape."

Whelan says "Hear that, Harry. No more sending me love letters."

Tengu says "Slashing the FCs is against the rules. :)"

Whelan says "Slashing?"

You say "Plots that involve creating a new magical
item/spell/creature: Those
sorts of things are regulated by the Ministry ICly, and OOCly do
have to
come through us."

Joseph smiles. "You just answered what I was about to ask."

You say "Plots that involve death or destruction: I should hope
that's a
given. :)"

You say "I think I could go on and on for a while, so does anyone
have any
questions about what kind of plot might need to go to us and what
might not?
There is a fuzzy area at times -- where it might affect a lot of
people, but
doesn't seem very major."

Tengu says "Slashing: Putting two chars together of the same/opposite
gender
when they're clearly not of that sexual orientation."

Joseph raises his hand.

Whelan says "Oh that is so obvious. :/"

You say "Joseph?"

Joseph says "What about bewitching a treehouse? Like the tents at the
cup, I
mean when you walk in the room is suppose to be like a living room."

Harry comments that if he's in any doubt at all, he'll run it by
the admins.

You say "I'm not sure what you mean, exactly. Would Joseph be doing
that, or
his parents? I think that probably wouldn't need to be run by us,
as the
tent thing is an existing spell."

Whelan raises a hand.

Rhys says "As long as you do not set one up in Trafalger Square."

You say "Whelan?"

Whelan says "So most wizard families could make or get a wizard tent
for the
games? No need to email *plots unless it is very fantastical?"

Pixie nods. The Weasleys did not own any tents of their own, but they
were
able to borrow some. The ones they borrowed weren't that great --
they were
old, and not exactly the top models -- but they could get some. If
you want
to put the interior of the Taj Mahal inside your tent, then you
shoud
probably ask.

Whelan says "Ok. :)"

Tengu says "I think they're not particularly easy to /make/. But
there's a
shop in Diagon that'd sell them. :)"

You say "If people are fairly clear on what kinds of plots you'd need
to run
by us (Tengu is quite right.), then those questions segue pretty
nicely into
the next bit. What you should do before you dash off the plot to us
to up
your chances of getting it approved."

You say "There are some questions you should ask yourself:"

Pixie| 1) Does this make sense?! Can my character do this? Is it
expressly
forbidden in the news? -- We want to see that you've put thought
into this.
First and foremost, have you thought about whether or not this idea
actually
fits in logically with the way the world is set up.

Pixie| 2) Does this plot have unintended consequences for any
characters other
than mine? -- For instance, would your plot of falling out of the
observatory lead to Sinistra being sacked for negligence? We're
probably not
going to approve it.

Pixie| 3) Can I involve other people in this? Is it flexible enough
to change
over time? -- This isn't a requirement, but a plot is a lot more
fun if you
can pull in other people. It's also better for the game.

You say "Those are the basic questions you should ask yourself. And
after
you've answered them, I would run it by someone else for a sanity
check. I
know /I/ have been seized by a /great/ /wonderful/ /incredible/
idea, and
then I'm just blind to its faults. Showing it to someone else and
having
them hit me over the head with the holes can be painful, but it
helps."

You say "So let's just for an example go over the Treehouse idea of
Joseph's.
The first question is, would his parents be doing the magic
themselves or
purchasing? We'll assume purchasing. So. Do they have the money for
something like this? Do they live in a flat? (Where would they put
it?)"

Harry notes that Muggle tents aren't all that big on the outside,
when rolled
up. I can (but haven't) hold it in two hands and beat someone over
the head
with it.

Pixie snickers.

You say "Any questions? Anyone have a plot idea they want to throw
out and let
us pick apart?"

Whelan scoots away from Harry and mutters something about cooties.

Harry eyes Whelan. You're a freak.

Darren shakes his head. Not currently.

Whelan smiles and nods to Harry.

Rhys says "I live with two large tents and a small one in my flat,
and a
viking rope bed. And several oriental rugs, all camping gear."

Harry thinks. I don't have any plot ideas right now, but I do have a
comment,
if you will.

You say "Go ahead."

Harry says "The key to getting plots approved, I've found, is to be
willing to
compromise. Everybody's got different desires and needs and
different ideas
as to what will and will not work. When I submit an idea, I think
of maybe
two or three points I need to keep, and a few others I'd like to
keep if
possible but aren't really essential."

Harry says "And someone might come up with a better way to accomplish
what you
have in mind."

Harry says "And for God's sake be prepared to deal with the
unexpected."

Joseph says "By the way. What I meant about the treehouse thing is
make the
inside of the treehouse like a wizards tent."

Rhys waves goodnight.

Harry says "Night, Rhys."

You say "That's what I thought, Joseph. :)"

Whelan says "Not a treehouse in a tent? ;)"

Harry says "Actually, you know what?"

Darren says "What?"

Joseph says "What?"

Pixie hmm?

Harry says "The treehouse gave me a really strange idea. A bunch of
kids want
to set up a treehouse at home, bespelling the method of getting up
and down
to make it easier and keep unwanted people out. Their parents don't
want to
do it, so the kids have to get special permission from the Minstry
to use
magic over the summer to do it."

Harry says "Have at."

Whelan says "But no magic over summer. Can't it go really wrong?"

You say "Well, the first question we would probably ask is: why would
their
parents find it ok for them to do it themselves, yet not want to do
the
spelling?"

Harry says "Laziness."

You say "Whelan, the plot was getting permission from the Ministry to
do
magic."

Harry says "Or they want the kids to learn to do it themselves."

You say "How old are the 'kids'?"

Tengu says "What spells in particular were they intending to use?"

You say "Do they know anyone at the Ministry? Are their parents going
to help
them get permission?"

Harry considers. They'd be anywhere from 8 to 14. A little
young...but would
some of the older kids be able to do the bespelling while the
younger kids
put together the structure? And Tengu, don't know yet.

Harry says "This was just a lightbulb that popped up while reading
this."

You say "I know, and now we're picking it apart. :)"

You say "Which was the idea of the exercise. ;)"

Whelan sits back since he must not have gotten the plot.

Tengu says "We'd also want to know whose treehouse and where it is."

Harry says "Know anyone? Would depend on the characters involved.
Maybe, maybe
not. (and yes, I know, and that's cool. :)) I think it more likely
that they
have write letters to the Ministry explaining what they want to do
and why.
Their parents would also have to write, I think, so yes, I'd say
they'd have
to get some assistance from their parents."

Joseph says "I feel good because so far I mentioned all that in the
log I
sent. :)"

Harry says "Didn't you ever build a treehouse when you were a kid,
Whelan?"

You say "But these are the sorts of things that /should/ come out if
you sit
down and ask yourself those questions I listed before."

Tengu says "It's what you should answer fo ryourself before
submitting to us.
Because we'll just turn it around and ask you all those
questions. :)"

Whelan says "I think that 1) for the Minestry let one group of kids
do magic
then every kid would be writting in. 2) They would not let the kids
do magic
with out some sort of supervision."

You say "Does it make sense? Well, a treehouse with a magical way to
get up to
it seems not totally out there. Can my character do this? Maybe.
They can
certainly write letters, which is the point of the plot."

Harry says "Ministry does special permission --witness Hermione's
Time-Turner."

Tengu says "But the plot is to /ask/ for permission. The resolution
of the
plot does not necessarily need to be.. they get permission."

Harry says "There's actually two parts to the plot that I can see."

Whelan says "But that was during the school year."

Joseph grabs himself a chocolate frog and opens the package.

Pixie nods. Building the treehouse, and asking for permission.

Harry says "First part is getting permission. Second part is building
it."

Harry says "As for supervision -- the Improper Use of Magic office
does that
anyway. :)"

Tengu says "And if we had any PCs in teh Ministry in that department,
we'd
toss them into the plot. :)"

Harry nods. Right, exactly.

Whelan says "Do they? There are lot of examples that they don't watch
everyone."

Harry says "They can't be everywhere at once."

Harry says "Who can? It's sort of like the police, I think."

Darren knows the Ministry watches him. *peer* *panic* :)

You say "Whelan, the point of the plot is not really to have them
perform
magic over the summer. The point of the plot is that they try to get
permission. Hermione's SPEW is not really going to succeed the way
she
originally started it. That doesn't mean she shouldn't /do/ it. You
can get
just as much RP out of trying as you can from succeeding."

Whelan says "I was looking a bit deeper than just asking."

You say "But in looking deeper, you looked past the heart of what the
RP was
going to deal with. :)"

Harry says "The Ministry watches me, but that's different.
Anyway...as for
whose and where? If I was to run this plot as an alt of mine, I'd
start it
as an idea that I discuss with classmates and friends. I'd probably
spend
full half a term writing letters and getting permission, and maybe
the
beginning of the summer as well, then if we got permission, invite
a passel
of friends over to build the thing."

Whelan says "Yes.. but oh well nevermind."

Harry says "How the letter-writing was done would determine the
outcome of the
plot."

You say "No, don't nevermind. The point of the seminar is for people
to get
the point of what we're talking about, so if you don't think you've
been
understood, do try to explain yourself. :)"

Harry says "And it'd end up in one of the big fruit trees in my
parents' back
yard."

Tengu says "My point to asking where was.. are Muggles likely to find
out
about it, especialy if the kids screw something up. If you're in
Hogsmeade
or the middle of nowhere, the Ministry's more likely to approve the
request."

Whelan says "Again I was thinking beyond just asking permission to
why the MoM
would say yes or no. I wasn't trying to put down the plot or
anything."

Pixie nods. The plot, though, as Harry stated it, didn't really ask
for
permission. It stated that the kids were planning on asking for
permission.
Now, after he sat down and asked himself a bunch of questions, and
ran it by
someone else, he would probably write it up in a format that /did/
ask for
some resolution on the 'did we get permission' question. But
whether that
answer was yes or no wouldn't mean the plot itself had to be thrown
out of
the window entirely.

Whelan says "I realize that."

Harry considers that, Tengu. A good point. Something for more
consideration.
As for what spells would be required...well, that would depend on
precisely
what we decided we wanted in the treehouse, so that would have to
come out
of RP. Does that make sense?

Tengu says "As long as the spells were canon or in +info and were at
your
level. If it requires an additional spell, that'll require more
work as you
write it up and submit it to *plots. :)"

Harry nods. Yes.

Joseph raises his hand.

You say "So, let's assume Harry submits that plot to us, with some
more
extensive modification."

You say "Joseph?"

Joseph says "Let's say you wanted to do a dance at Hogwarts. Would
you have to
RP getting permission from Dumbledore and the teachers?"

You say "Ah, very good question."

You say "First, there is a fundamental difference between Harry's
plot and a
dance for the school. One involves only those characters you ICy
know and
already RP with. There's little organization involved, and most of
the RP
can be spontaneous and unplanned."

You say "The second is an event. Everyone may come, and someone has
to keep
the dancing moving and organize how it will run. What makes it an
interesting event."

You say "There are thus 2 issues: The ICness of it, /and/ the
player's ability
to actually run the thing. We won't know that until we've seen you
do some
smaller plots, and submit a bunch of logs. We don't want people to
end up in
over their heads. Running an event is difficult, and running it
well is even
harder."

Whelan raises a hand.

You say "Whelan?"

Whelan says "What if we don't submit logs? Not everyone does I'm
sure."

You say "Then we really have no way of knowing whether or not you're
likey to
be able to handle it. We may have some idea, but if you /haven't/
successfully dealt with smaller events and let us know about them,
then
we're looking at a big blank. It is your choice whether or not to
submit
logs, but characters who do are more likely to take on interesting
roles,
because we've seen them in action."

Darren always submits logs when possible. It gives others a chance to
read
what's going on with your character and let's the admins see what
you've
been up to. :) Not to mention you can get advices from others about
your RP.
My opinion anyhow.

You say "to be asked to take on, rather."

Whelan says "Well isn't running a plot and recording one a bit
different?"

You say "Yes, it is. But if you don't record the ones you run, we
don't know
about them."

Harry says "Some of us get bitched at if we don't submit logs. :)"

You say "Well, FCs are different again. OCs have the choice, and FCs
do to
some extent, but if we don't see any Harry logs come through, we'll
say
something to him."

Harry nods. Exactly.

Whelan says "It doesn't seem like much of a choice. Don't log you
don't get
larger plots approved is what I'm hearing."

You say "That isn't what I'm saying at all, Whelan."

Whelan says "Please go on with the meeting."

Pixie mm. Oookay.

Lark scratches the back of her neck.. ^^;

Harry frowns. What was up with that?

Harry says "I know he's got problems with logging and reading logs,
but...."

Lark says "It's not that.."

Darren says "Personally, I like submitting log files. And reading
those ones
that are submitted. Sometimes you get good ideas from them."

Lark nods. "They've all been a blast to read so far."

You say "In case anyone else wasn't clear on what I was saying --
the /best/
way to get the admins to see that you are bright and capable is to
submit
lots of logs. Another way is to just RP a lot, because then you'll
end up in
scenes with us, and in other peoples' logs. If you prove that you
are OOCly
mature (by handling a difficult scene) and responsible (by showing
up to
events when you can, and making an effort to RP), we are going to
have a
better idea about whether or not you can direct a large event. If
you submit
small plots and successfully handle them, then we're more willing
to let you
run something big."

You say "That is /not/ to say that everyone isn't welcome to submit
something
big. But if you want to run it yourself, we need to make sure it's
not going
to kill you. :)"

Ruby slips in, sorry she's late.

You say "I'm not sure if I'm being clear or not. I'm not trying to
stomp on
people. Maybe Ruby (Hi Ruby) would like to talk about what it was
like to
run that croquet match. As an example of /why/ we try to be careful
about
letting people run large events."

Lark snugs Madds ^_^

Maddlynn sneaks in and waves.

Ruby whews. "That was far more of a challenge than I ever would have
guessed.
Just a sec, and I'll tell you about it."

You say "Hey Maddlynn."

Joseph waves to Maddy.

Maddlynn smiles.

Ruby says "I originally thought it would be neat to come up with a
wizard game
that people could play off of broomsticks. So just as there is a
wizard form
of chess, I thought it might be neat to design a type of wizard
croquet.
Since it's not a new game, it's very British, and I had some ideas
about
neat magical effects we could put into it. I initially thought this
would be
just an activity for a Ravenclaw house social, but it turned into a
full
school event..."

Maddlynn ouus.

You say "That was our fault. We really liked the idea. :)"

Harry chuckles. No comment.

Ruby says "Challenge number one was making sure everyone knew the
rules. A lot
of people were new to croquet, period, and I was doing a definite
variant of
my own devising. So I published the rules ahead of time on the
events
bboard, along with a URL link to regular (muggle) rules, so people
could
kind of seen where I was coming from."

Ruby says "And I quickly found it is harder to write coherent rules
than one
might think. If you want to see what the final format was, look
at '+info
game croquet'."

Ruby says "And of course, it goes without saying that I had to have
these
rules approved by the staff before we went anywhere near IC with
them."

Ruby says "Next, with the staff go-ahead, I put the croquet
tournament onto
the +Events list, and I also had IC 'fliers' put up on the bboards
to show
what students would see advertising it. We had a LOT of attendants.
I had
thought we'd do the game with two people to each croquet ball...but
we wound
up having around 9 teams, and if we do it again this next year, I
would
prefer just to have six or five games."

Ruby says "I think I'm going to require three-person teams, and that
they RSVP
to me before the event that they're going to play. I kind of let
whoever
join the game on the day of the game...and the game ran /forever/."

Harry whistles.

Ruby says "So I had to do a lot of behind-the-scenes coordination of
the
action, I had to know where all the croquet balls were at all
times, because
I was doing a lot of the poses to show spacial relationships...and
if I'd
been confused about this, the game would've come crashing down in a
heap,
because if you know anything about croquet...the relationship of
where
things are is really important. Anyway. I digress from the main
point."

Tengu says "Events should try to stick to 2-3 hours. AFter that, you
start
losing people and it becomes harder to keep it together."

Ruby says "Yep. So next year I'm thinking...simplify, simplify."

Ruby says "It was like herding cats. Lots of fun, but I was mentally
exhausted."

Ruby grins. "But we blew stuff up, so that was way cool."

Ruby hands the floor back to Tengu.

Tengu says "It's not my floor. :)"

You say "But you can see it was pretty complicated. The trial we just
had is
another example. It ran way longer than I'd wanted it to, and that
was after
glossing over quite a bit."

Tengu says "That's why we want people to start with smaller events.
Pillow
fight or tea and biscuits in the common room."

Maddlynn likes pillow fights.

You say "Right. Once you've gotten the hang of those, you're ready to
swim in
the deep end. Actually arranging something and forcing it to go is
different
than having it happen spontaneously."

Harry says "Who had a pillow fight?"

Tengu says "And if you can't log yourself, just ask someone nicely to
log it
and post it for you."

You say "Anyway.. thanks Ruby, for that rundown. Now: What happens to
the plot
after you submit it to *plots."

Ruby says "Hufflepuff had a good fight."

Harry ohs.

Tengu says "Their common room is /perfect/ for pillow fights. :)"

Maddlynn musta missed it and boohoos by Larkie.

Lark missed it too ^^;

Maddlynn ohs and stops ^^

Lark patpats

Harry ahhhs. Heh.

You say "All the admins get the things that are sent to that alias.
And they
all read it. It can take a few days for us to come up with a reply.
Not
because we're ignoring you -- though if you don't get a response
after 3
days, that's too long and you can poke us -- but because we have to
discuss
it. And sometimes argue and/or have a fight about it. :)"

Tengu says "Sometimes? :)"

Pixie coughs.

You say "Anhow, once the opinions have been distilled down, we either
say 'go
ahead', or more often, we send back a list of questions for
clarification.
It's at this point where people tend to get kind of huffy on
occasion. We
are /not/ picking at you to be mean, or because you're an OC, or
because
you're an FC, or because we don't like you. They're just questions
that we
have. Please don't just jot off a reply at this point. Rarely do
immediate
responses fully answer the questions. Take some time to think about
them.
Let them sit for a day or two even before you look at the response."

You say "/Everyone's/ plots go through this process. Even the
admins'. Except
we're less polite to each other."

Darren snickers.

Ruby thinks a lot of times, the admins act as a sounding board to
raise
questions that maybe didn't occur to the plot proposer during the
creation
stage. The 'Oh, I didn't think about that...' thing.

Pixie nods. That's what we're trying to be, in any case. If it gets
to the
point where we're just going back and forth, we'll try to just meet
and talk
to work things out.

You say "We want your plots to get approved. And your spells, and
your other
ideas. We're willing to work with you until that happens."

You say "So. Once your plot is approved! What to do? Well, that
depends. The
main thing is to run it. If it's an event-plot, like the croquet,
you need
to do some scheduling and preparation beforehand, laying down the
groundwork."

Ruby says "If you're running a game, make sure you *really* know the
rules of
how to play it."

You say "So, are there any questions? Concerns? Most of this is
common sense,
I think, but I think some people have been feeling like the process
is
mysterious or easier for certain people -- that's not the case.
Harry's
plots don't automatically get approved because he's Harry."

Tengu writes up his request to try to become a dragon animagus.

Pixie smites Tengu.

Harry hands Pixie the DENIED stamper and a big red ink pad.

Harry would actually think being a dragon animagus would be a pain.

Lark grins

Tengu pouts. I did say /try/...

Harry says "You'd have the Ministry of Magic in your back pocket for
the rest
of yuor natural life."

You say "I guess it would depend what you were trying to do with it.
If you're
a girl, and you want Charlie Weasley to notice you, well, that's a
bit
extreme, but I think he /would/. o.O"

Tengu laughs.

Harry snickers. Though possibly not in the way you'd want.

Constantine ponders if having kids would violate the dragon breeding
precepts
then.

You say "Ok. If there's no immediate questions, we're done! Let me or
the
other admins know if you come up with a question later. Thanks for
coming."

Harry says "Thank you, Pixie."

Harry heads to the nexus.

Darren thanks Pixie and waves.
--- End forwarded message ---
--- End forwarded message ---