--- In hpmush-logs@yahoogroups.com, "jellyn7" <julie@c...> wrote:
--- In HP-Logs@y..., Kate Butler <mikage@v...> wrote:

What: The OOC Seminar about Roleplay which took place on April 28,
2002.

Announcement: Tengu shouts "The OOC Seminar is about to begin. Please
@tel
#924 to get here. It's also on the +watch, but you'll get more out
of it if
you're here in person."

Tengu ooos. Good turnout. Better than the last one. :)

Tommy critically watches the room @desc. "Where's the pizza?" @;o)=

Wilhelmina says "We seek your wisdom. -bows- ;)"

"Oooh, Pocky," Derek grabs a few boxes and stuffs them into his
robe. :)

Wilhelmina will hit Derek up later. ;D

Dryad says "It's the sorting, all over again!"

You say "Okay, I think everyone's here.. maybe not connected, but
here."

Maddlynn is still alive, so she thinks.

Pixie will jump right in. The first item on the agenda: IC vs. OOC
knowledge.
Or "things the player knows that the character doesn't and vice
versa".

You say "Anyone have any examples of this sort of thing?"

Anharad lifts her hand

Rhys raises a hand.

You say "Anharad?"

Harry raises his hand as well.

Ginny raises her hand

Anharad says "We can only know something icly what other have told us
icly. So
if a player was present at something and tells another player while
playing,
it should be okay. But if we read something from a log or so, we
don't know
it icly."

Judith raises her hand, a thought occuring to her.

You say "That is a good example. Of course, you do need to temper
that: if
it's a log of a class your character should have been in, you can
know what
happened."

Anharad nods

You say "Rhys, you were next. And to keep it moving, Ginny, Harry,
Judith, go
ahead also. :)"

Rhys says "OOCly not knowing the ingredients and methods for a potion
that
ICly you would know."

You say "A good example of the reverse. A lot of things the player
just
doesn't know, but it's not IC to say the /character/ doesn't. You
should
always ask yourself that question."

Harry says "We had an incident a while back where a character claimed
to ICly
know that Lucius Malfoy was a Death Eater. ICly, the Malfoys are
highly
respected, and only Harry has eyewitness proof otherwise."

Rhys says "After a certain amount of time, could not a log be
available as
gossip, even if you were not in that class?"

You say "Well, that is and isn't true. Lucius Malfoy was accused of
being a
Death Eater. He was acquitted. But it -is- public knowledge that he
was, in
fact, suspected, and there are many who still suspect him."

Ginny says "Knowing where people are from +hangouts. Even if you
wanted
someone walk into the meadow, for example, you wouldn't know if
they stayed
there. And if you're in your room, you wouldn't know that people
were
hanging out in a particular location. ... And some logged things
likely
become known by rumor eventually, if it's big enough news, I would
think.."

You say "But it's true that no one but Harry has any true evidence."

Tengu says "Anything a large group of people saw it definitely fair
game for
gossip that could've spread everywhere. Like Snape blowing up Pooh.
People
outside of Slytherin would've eventually gotten bits and pieces of
knowledge
about that scene."

Judith notes that while things you see on the rumors board can be
known,
things you see when you +watch scenes in public areas (but you
aren't there
yourself) aren't known to you.

Anharad grumbles :)

Darren hides.

Ginny says "wanted = watched.. in my pose."

You say "Right, Ginny. The logs are available -- and if something big
happens,
you can be sure that eventually it would get out and people would
talk about
it. People like to talk and spread gossip. If you read something
and you're
not sure your character would know it, you can ask the admins or
perhaps one
of the people involved in the scene."

You say "I'm going to segue into the next topic, because I think
we're
bordering on it as it is: Thinking as your Character."

Anharad lifts her hand

You say "Anharad?"

Anharad says "Well, that is quite difficult. One has to find the
personality
of one character and act like it. A no nonsense type has stay this
way. Any
changes in character have to have some sort of basis or background
and have
to be explainable."

Harry raises a hand.

Anharad sits down

You say "That's true. It can be difficult to pretend to be another
person. The
main problem we have been seeing lately is people having a bit of
difficulty
separating "things their player knows and likes" from "things the
character
knows and likes". For example, your player might know a great deal
about the
X-Men. In a scene, it might suddenly seem like it would be
a /great/ time to
throw in an X-Men reference. But your character is a pure-blooded
wizard.
You have to stop and think would they -know- this? Or is it
completely OOC
for them to know something like that? If the answer is that they
shouldn't
know it, you have to restrain yourself, or try and come up with
something
else. Maybe there's a wizard comic book that's somewhat similar,
and your
character is a big fan of that."

You say "Harry?"

Tengu says "Please also keep in mind that this is the UK and 1996.
Some things
don't exist. Like the X Men movie. And other things aren't part of
UK pop
culture though they may be quite popular in the US."

Snape coughs. :)

Harry says "It is difficult. Probably the most difficult thing to do
in
MUSHing. Anharads' right, but it's more complicated than that. You
need to
be able to see things from the character's point of view to be able
to play
him/her correctly. Now, there are times (and those of you who've
been
playing for a while might know this) when your character will take
over and
you're just the typist. This gets weird, but you need to maintain a
certain
level of detachment, or it's all too easy to slide out of
character. The
other thing you can do to keep yourself in perspective is to use
some of the
words and terminology out of the books. Instead of 'trash',
use 'rubbish'."

Judith lifts a hand.

Derek raises his hand as well.

You say "Judith, Ron?"

Wilhelmina lifts a hand.

Ron says "The lexicon site is great to use for some of the proper
words that
Brits would use instead of what most Americans say. As for myself,
what I've
found kind of fits what Harry said, about letting the character
take over.
Sometimes I have problems when I try to think /too/ much about what
Ron
would do, and just let it happen. You can get in a zone where it
just kind
of works and things flow. Hard to explain it, though."

Judith notes that sometimes, it's handy to mentally define what is
different
between you the player and your character. Maybe Judith's player is
an
openminded sort, but I know that Judith is very closed-minded on
certain
topics. Even though she's going to try and hide that for the most
part. What
makes her angry that is different from what makes me angry, etc.

Anharad raises her hand in question.

You say "Derek, Wilhelmina?"

Wilhelmina notes, "But there are many factors involved. You should
ask
questions all the time and found your character's base personality,
but also
take into account what they are apt to do in different states. How
do they
act when they're tired, hungry, etcetera? A very outgoing character
may grow
introverted at times."

Derek says "Something that has helped me in some other RP
environments
**cough**Pern**cough** is taking online personality tests -as your
character-. Some of the psychological tests (Myers-Briggs or
Keirsey) can be
pretty accurate and might give you some clues as to how your
character would
react in certain situations."

You say "Ginny, Anharad? Anyone else? We can try to wrap this topic
up, so
jump in now."

Ginny says "And, realistically, there are times that it's better to
stay OOC
than try to RP, if you're having a hard time getting your mind
around your
character. For example--you've had a really rough day and your
character is
generally cheerful, etc. If you feel like you can't get in the
right frame
of mind for your character, maybe take a break for a bit, rather
than trying
to force something that isn't flowing. It can help."

Devin says "Never take what happens to you ICly personally. Remember,
it's
just a game. ^_^"

Tengu says "That's where having another character is helpful. You may
not feel
up to playing one char, but the other char fits your current
mood. :)"

Harry nods to Ginny and agrees. "Also, you won't always agree with
your
character. Do I think Fred, George and Caetlan and Ginny set Harry
up that
night? NO! I know they didn't. But, from Harry's chair, it looked
awfully
weird, so when I wrote that exposition piece, I kept that in mind
and
followed the train of thought to its logical conclusion.

Anharad says "so it is strictly forbidden to have a character that is
somewhat
closer to the typist personality? I mean, for a newbie it is a bit
easier to
handle than swapping into a totally alien character, one has to map
first."

Judith wouldn't think it's forbidden at all. But many times, a
character
starts close to you, but then has factors affect them which take
them in
different directions than you the player are going in. And so they
become
different. Or they don't. But be true to them, however they are.

You say "The admins have no way of knowing how similar a character is
in
perosnality or temprament to the player. It can be easier to
separate the
two if they are dissimilar, but that's a personal choice. You just
have to
work harder to differentiate between character and player."

Ron wouldn't say that, Anharad. One of the things that helps me play
Ron is
that we actually do have some simlarities in personality.

Harry nods to Ron.

Anharad sighs and nods

Tengu says "You just do have to remember that no matter /how/ like
you they
are, they're not you. Even if you live in the UK and you're the
same age and
gender as your char, you're still not a wizard/witch and you don't
attend
Hogwarts. :)"

Wilhelmina nods.

Sinistra agrees

You say "Which will lead nicely into our next topic: rules and
behavior at
Hogwarts."

Harry also finds it helpful to go back and look at his logs. Did I
step out of
canon there? Why? What happened and how can I prevent it from
happening
again? Now, I'm pickier than most, but I still critique myself
constantly.

Ron needs to be a little more self-critical of what he does, as a
feature.
That's my opinion. There's more of a standard to keep to than an
original
character.

Harry nodsnodsnods to Ron. Yup.

You say "Hogwarts is, at its heart, a British Boarding School. There
are some
changes, but Harry Potter is a school story at its heart. Now, not
everyone
is going to know everything about the UK and/or Boarding Schools. I
know I
sure don't. But you should think about what might be different.
It's much
different to live at a school than to go to a dayschool, and the
expected
behaviors of students in the UK are different than in the US."

You say "And the faculty too, for that matter."

Devin raises his hand.

You say "Devin?"

Devin says "For those of us old enough, it would be like living at a
dorm in
college perhaps? Only we just have to take that "feeling" and lower
its age
to the ones we play."

Ron would agree with that.

Rhys says "Much mre strict than that."

Wilhelmina says "Except much more strict; a conservative old-school
college
maybe."

You say "Well, yes and no. Dorm life in the US can vary between
colleges/universities."

You say "And it's almost a lot freer than would be here. Maybe dorm
life from
the 50s. :)"

Ali raises her hand.

Rhys says "It is not quite a military school, but more strict than a
colege."

Ron says "With the dorm thing, you can at least sort of mimic the way
you're
apart from your parents and living around others your age, but the
point
about it being stricter fits a lot."

Tengu says "More like going away to summer camp, for 10 months. :)"

Pixie knows that 40 years ago, the dorms at my former college were
very
strict. You had to dress for dinner every night, go to bed at a
certain
time, sign in and out when you left, etc, etc.

Judith was +watching a scene in the library recently where a male
student got
upset for being docked points for wearing an earring. But of
course, I would
think in a traditionalist school like Hogwarts, guys wouldn't be
wearing
earrings like that. And girls wouldn't have huge, clunky jewelry.

You say "Ali?"

Ron doesn't recall even hearing of boys wearing earrings at Hogwarts..

Hermione puts up her hand.

Ali says "Um, I read in students I think that sharp pointy objects
were
contrabound. And I would assume that stuff such as drugs/alcohol is
too. But
would students still have access to that?"

Harry says "Butterbeer is mildly alcoholic."

Ali isn't quite sure how to console a 1996 drug-alcohol-popular world
with
Hogwarts?

Tengu says "Not it is /not/, Harry."

Harry says "It's not?"

Harry okays.

Ginny thought it was like rootbeer?

Tengu says "'news canon faq9' for info on butterbeer."

Ron says "Root beer isn't alcoholic."

Ginny nods "I know.. that's why I thought it was like rootbeer."

Ron says "Oh."

Ginny raises her hand

Darren thought it was mentioned in canon that it was alcoholic?
*grabs the
books*

Tengu didn't mean to come off like he's stomping on you, Harry. It's
just we
had to stomp on this idea before. And that's why it ended up in the
faq. :)

You say "Drugs are not available. Rowling has pretty much said they
are not
part of the HP world and we are respecting her wishes. Alcohol is
obviously
around -- there is a pub."

Wendy snickers.

Judith thinks that it is alcoholic to house elves. But probably not
to humans?

Ron says "The faq covers that part."

You say "Winky gets tipsy off of the butterbeer, but that doesn't
mean it's
alocholic. It's just as likely it's the sugar that does it."

Marian remembers reading that Winky got drunk on Butterbeer, but it
didn't
affect humans

Hermione says "She's been quoted as saying it's non-alcoholic too, I
think.""

Ron says "It specifically says humans don't get drunk on it."

Darren scribbles this new information in his notepad.

Tengu says "The UK drinking age is, I believe, 16. You can't buy it
in
bottles/cans until 18. While Hagrid has been known to get drunk,
we'd rather
not see students wandering around in drunken stupors."

Harry shrugs. I'm used to being stomped on in forums like this.

Harry says "Teach me to open my mouth. :)"

Devin says "The UK drinking age is 18, its 16 in Germany I believe,
but
definitly 18 in UK. ^_^"

Wilhelmina lifts her hand with a question.

Ginny continues to hold her hand up, in case it got lost in the
spam. :)

You say "Ali, did we answer your question? Basically, drugs simply
don't
exist. Alcohol does, but people are mostly responsible with it.
It's a more
perfect world. :)"

You say "Sorry, Ginny. Ginny, Wilhelmina?"

Ali nodnods.

You say "Oh, Hermione too?"

Tengu says "Back to the jewelry. The dress code as we've decided is:
Boys can
wear earrings in their dorms or common room or while in Hogsmeade.
But if a
teacher sees you with it and doens't personality like it, you can
get docked
for it."

Ron ahhs. *looks at Snape*

Wilhelmina was wondering about that earlier. "As it's vacation, are
non-uniform clothes allowed?"

You say "Absolutely."

Wilhelmina yays, and embraces denim.

Ginny has an idea about how to approach things regarding what the
dorm
situation would be like, "I lived in a dorm when I was 16. One
thing to keep
in mind--parents are entrusting the staff to take care of their
minor
children. Which means it would be pretty strict on certain things,
and more
liberal on others. For example--no boys in girls' rooms, etc. And
you're
sharing a room with 4 other people, so you arn't going to have a
million
belongings, etc.

Tengu says "No visible tattoos, or nose or tongue piercings.. you
can't dye
your hair strange colors, wear funky contacts, or heavy makeup.
This will
all be going into '+info' soon."

Darren scowls at denim. Robes all the way.

Hermione noddles belatedly, Pix. Sorry.

You say "Remember, though, that wearing strictly muggle clothes may
get you
peered at. Most wizards will dress it up a bit with a robe, or
mismatch the
colors."

Wendy hides her tongue-ring. :I

Rhys says "Wizard casual wear."

Ron oys and remembers the time he wore a striped tie with a plaid
shirt once
in school, IRL. That got a few looks.

Harry would think that going with strict Muggle wear may get you
pegged as a
Mudblood. Slytherins might act accordingly.

Tengu says "Wizard fashion lends itself towards strange colors and
rather
gawdy in some ways, while very conservative in others."

Rhys says "Charles Dickens in neon. Oy."

Marian thinks neon colors, but nothing like mini-skirts.

Tommy used to wear a cowboy hat and a toy gun in high school, Ron...

Snape wouldn't be caught dead wearing any of them.

Wilhelmina was thinking about that last night. "I had the idea for a
t-shirt
with a graphic on it (maybe a Quidditch-themed one) where the
graphics
displayed some motion, rather like wizard photographs. However, I'm
not sure
t-shirts would be manufactured - robes and such, perhaps."

Tengu says "It's probably /very/ sexy to see a naked shoulder. ;)"

Hermione says "What would constitute acceptable wizard fashions for
the
Hogwarts students when not in robes?"

Hermione says "In a casual setting, I mean."

Tengu says "Suuure, Snape, we believe you."

Wilhelmina says "You can't go wrong with jeans and a sweater, can
you? And the
Muggle-related kids would look a bit more pulled-together than the
purebloods."

Ginny says "My muggle studies outfits match, because Hermione dressed
me :)"

Judith thinks it might be handy for there to be a news/info file that
talks
about what an average non-uniform young wizard/witch might wear.
Would
tasteful-length miniskirts be inappropriate? Miniskirts were
invented by the
British, after all.

Ron says "Snape probably wore black diapers as a baby."

Joshua says "Lol Ron"

Harry ROFL.

Sinistra snickers

You say "Well, we've seen in the books that the Weasleys wear
sweaters and
slacks (the children anyway), and the movie clearly showed the
students in
regular muggle clothing. But wizard fashion is /not/ the same as
muggle
fashion: wizards prefer bright colors, strange patterns,
interesting
textures. If you look very 'muggle', people will not approve."

Dryad says "Probably not jeans. More like khakis."

Snape says "Sure, just ask my mother."

Ron likes that idea, Judith.

Hermione tries to imagine Hermi in a purple and neon green plaid
skirt. Hides.

Ali beams at Judith. Kudos to you. XD

You say "So to our eyes, muggle-born kids may look more pulled
together, but
to their peers, they will look strange and/or boring. :)"

Wilhelmina noddles.

Wendy coughs, "yeah, like 'black' isn't boring. ;>

Joshua laughs.

Wilhelmina says "One can brood in purple crushed velvet. ;D"

Snape ahems. It is elegant and dignified.

Pixie thinks that's a good idea, Judith. One of the things we're
working on is
to flesh out +info a bit more with more world information.

Darren thinks he'll have to clear all the plain black robes out of
his
wardrobe then. :)

Ron says "Just look at Lockhart as a perfect example of typical
wizard wear."

Dryad smooches Snape on the cheek. It's a cop-out because you're
colorblind,
dear!

You say "We welcome submissions from the players, for that. :)"

Tengu says "Also think of Neville's grandmother. :)"

Snape perches on Dryad. "You hush, cutie."

Judith shudders at Ron's description. "Angels & ministers of grace
defend us."

Ron says "Well, maybe he took it a step or two past normal."

Wilhelmina is gonna wear lots of yellow and neon pink, now.

Joshua says "Eww"

Snape knows which movie Judith watched today. :)

Joshua says "Pink...pink is evil"

Judith grins.

Darren ponders flaming orange robes.

Joshua says "Eck"

Maddlynn loves pink, the color that is.

Wilhelmina adores pink.

You say "The idea of wizard fashion ties back with the 'thinking as
your
character' idea, you know? /We/ may think it would be awful, but
we're not
wizards."

Ginny says "stripes and plaids, polkadots and diagonal stripes"

Joshua says "LOL"

Ron's new dress robe is a pretty strong blue with silver lining, for
example.

Wilhelmina considers those ideas for Mina's vacation clothes. ;D

Rhys says "Something Ebenezer Scrooge would be happy in."

Judith says "Or perhaps just more vivid colors than the muted tones a
lot of
muggles wear. Go for bright jewel tones."

You say "Did anyone have any other questions or comments about the
topic of
'rules and behaviors at Hogwarts'? We've drifted a little afield."

Maddlynn tosses in some 80s clothing..

Joshua says "Hrm...neon green, with neon pink, with a cover-coat of
neon
orange?"

Wilhelmina notes, "Willy Wonka!"

Anharad turns neon green in the face....

Darren rofl

Maddlynn laughs!

Rhys adds sunglasses to his ensemble, in self defense.

Tengu says "I'll interject a couple rules in case people missed them.
No going
out on the grounds without a buddy (courtyard is okay)."

Tengu says "Your pets are only allowed in your dorm, common room,
outside, and
walking between the two locations."

Joshua raises his hand...

You say "Joshua?"

Joshua says "We can't go out on the meadow without a buddy?"

You say "Dumbledore announced at the start of the year that no one is
to go
outside without a buddy. The rear courtyard is the only
place 'outside' this
does not affect, because it's walled in."

Ginny raises a hand, as well.

Darren would think Hogsmeade and anything that starts with 'Hogwarts
Grounds'
is buddybuddy zone.

Tengu says "Your buddy can be an NPC."

Rhys says "You pose a buddy with you."

You say "Ginny?"

Ginny says "What about pets in the courtyard, since it's sort of
outside?"

Tommy has invented his own NPC friend for those outdoors trips...

Tengu says "And owls are sort of in a different class. They'll
deliver mail to
the great hall and hang out in the owlery."

You say "For exercise I think it would be okay, but the courtyard
isn't a
litterbox."

Tengu laughs.

Judith says "Over the course of the year, there have been NPC buddy
characters
that have taken on complex lives of their own."

Wilhelmina has a first year she beats up on a lot. ;D

You say "Okay. Now, the other side of the rules/behavior thing is
that these
children are taught not to question authority. They're punished for
infractions and they're expected to toe the line. And for the most
part,
they all fall in with that and the parents support that. So while
it may be
our instinct to argue with or try to have decisions overturned,
it's not
usually very IC to do so."

Hermione says "It's important to remember that this is not a
democracy."

Sinistra nods. "Exactly."

Wilhelmina is liberal with the 'sir's and 'ma'am's.

Harry nods.

Anharad lifts her hand

You say "Anharad?"

Harry notes that it is technically also incorrect to refer to a
teacher as
'Snape' or 'Collingwood'. Harry does it, but don't let a teacher
hear you do
it.

Anharad says "Sorry but as far as I remember in britain only the
Queen is
adressed Ma'am."

Ron does the same as Harry, just not around the teachers.

Rhys thinks Anharad is right.

Harry says "You're supposed to use 'Professor Snape' or 'Professor
Collingwood', and call them 'Professor' to their face, I believe."

Wilhelmina says "But then what do you call the other how-many-million
women?
o_O;"

Ron says "What do you use if you don't use Ma'am?"

Sinistra points out. "And don't refer to professors that way to other
professors."

Phoebe says "actually, ma'am is any woman in Britain...the queen is
your
majesty"

Tengu says "Unless you want to lose points. :)"

Judith notes that when she has traveled in the UK, her mum got
called 'madam'
by shop clerks and waiters. And I was called 'miss' on occasion.

Anharad says "I am not british but I am very sure of it. Madame is
okay, but
never Ma'am."

Snape says "Professor, Madam, one presumes. Professor McGonagall,
Madam Hooch
(hiss)."

Sinistra snorts

You say "Madam is fine."

Wilhelmina okees.

Rhys says "I just remember a anecdote where an American called a
British woman
ma'am and she giggled and corrected him, saying 'I'm not the
Queen.'"

Wilhelmina wouldn't know. She's definitely a 'miss' and the hotel
staff in
London got that right. ^_^

You say "Anharad, you may be right about the ma'am thing, I'm not
positive.
Madam is pretty safe, however, so go ahead and use that. :)"

Snape is pretty sure Anharad is correct, yup. Not that I care how a
jumped-up
Muggle is referred to. :)

Sinistra simply shakes her head.

Harry grins.

Tengu sticks this in, though it doesn't quite fit the current topic.
People
need to keep in mind wizard prejudices and the fact that Black is a
/murderer/. Very few people are going to believe Harry if he says
Black is
innocent.

Tengu says "Should Harry be silly enough to tell people that. :)"

Ali is swelling with information. *Thanks!* But um. I can only imbibe
so much
in one day, so thanks!

Ron says "Then there are those who know better ^.^"

Judith says "Mass-murderer, too. That's like saying Manson is a swell
guy."

Tengu says "And Lupin is a werewolf, which is common knowledge to the
students
now. And even despite knowing he was a good teacher, there are
goign to be
plenty of kids who are afraid of him for it."

Wilhelmina doesn't mention the fact that she has a poster of Hannibal
Lecter
in her dorm room. ;D

Snape makes a point of ensuring that Judith means Charles Manson, not
Marilyn
Manson, tho a case could be made... ;)

Tengu says "Even a 'nice' character is going to have not so nice
beliefs. That
House Elves belong in their station. That werewolves should be
locked up
and/or killed.."

Judith grins. "Yes, I meant Charles. I try to ignore Marilyn."

Tengu says "Remember Hermione didn't get a lot of SPEW followers. :)"

Tommy always confuses Charles Manson and Charles Bronson, for some
reason...
@;o)=

Wilhelmina nods at Tengu.

You say "Even the Weasleys laughed at the idea."

Ron grins.

Snape says "What's so wrong about wanting werewolves to be locked up
or
killed? They're dangerous!"

Anharad pokes tommy "Go visit madame tussauds...there are both

Ron likes Black and Lupin. Is that so wrong? :)

Tengu says "And Ron reacted strongly to finding out about Lupin. And
about
Hagrid as well. These are deeply ingrained prejudices and fears.
And not
without basis."

Joshua notes he doesn't join anything that SPEWs at him...

Harry says "Well, the Trio is a special case. :)"

Sinistra even believes that House elves should not be freed.

Hermione says "Tyrants!"

Snape says "And she loves Muggles, go figure that one out."

Ginny says "Good grief, no! We'd have to clean our own rooms, then!"

Hermione errs, and goes back to her corner.

You say "Okay.. any last questions on this topic?"

Ron says "Anyway. ;)"

Harry notes that wizard-born kids will react more strongly than
Muggle-born
kids.

Joshua pushes Her-my-own-ninny back into the crowd?

Maddlynn wishes she could stay for the rest, but must go.

Judith says "Right. Muggle-borns won't have been taught these things."

Tengu says "Even Muggle-born kids should be afraid of werewolves.
It's
healthy. :)"

Harry nods. I'm talking house-elves and giants.

You say "Okay. Moving on to the second section, which is the
mechanics of
posing. The first topic is Powerposing. Now, to make sure
everyone's on the
same page, powerposing is to pose an action on another character:
to force
them into something which they didn't agree to do."

Harry nodnods and raises a hand.

Joshua raises his hand.

You say "Joe pushes Jack into the lake, instead of Joe tries to shove
Jack
into the lake."

Echidna says "You might think it's something innocuous like saying
they're
walking the same direction as you, or you're helping them, but
that's still
forcing an action."

You say "Harry, Joshua?"

Harry says "This also goes for forcing someone else's NPC."

Wilhelmina raises her hand.

Harry had a problem with this the other night...lemme snag the log
bit...

Pixie would rather not make this specifically about anyone, Harry, so
do try
to keep the comments general. :)

Tengu says "It can include hitting them with a quaffle, hitting them
with a
spell.. but also like Echidna said, other 'nice' things. Even a
kiss or a
hug should be an attempt in most cases."

Joshua says "If your powerposing, you pose for both you, and for the
person
who should have the chance to pose. Something like casting a spell,
and
posing it hit without letting the other player or PC monster pose.
But the
second player shouldn't always avoid it."

Harry okays. I was posing a bunch of NPC's and had another player
take those
NPC's and have them do somtehing without checking with me first.

Joshua notes the quaffle is the red ball for scoring.

Tengu says "I know which is the quaffle, Joshua. Doesn't mean you
can't hit
someone with it. As Harry proved earlier. ;)"

Harry says "Sometimes it's okay to powerpose -if- you check with the
other
players involved. You can group-pose, though keeping it general is
good."

Ron says "Something like this can be a little confusing when people
work out
something amongst themselves, which occasionally happens to keep
the flow of
a scene from breaking up too much. I might have a fight with Malfoy
(go
figure) and we may coordinate something where one of us will pose
the result
of an action on the other person. To those watching, it's easy to
make the
mistake of assuming it's an attempt to powerpose without consent,
so it's a
good idea to be sure before making an issue out of it."

Harry kicks Tengu. :)

You say "Wilhelmina?"

Joshua laughs.

Ginny laughs, rubbing her ribs. ;P

Ron says "It also helps to tell the rest - hey, we've agreed to this,
so don't
worry."

Wilhelmina ahs, and lowers her hand, nodding. "I was just going to
mention
getting permission. Sometimes it's nice to powerpose just to keep
RP flow
going, but one should always check. Something like a kiss or a hug,
for
instance - most people don't mind them being done, but one should
verify
that."

Joshua nodnods to Ron/

Harry nods. Sometimes you can agree to something and still pose it
openly.

You say "Right. (All of you.)"

Judith raises a hand.

Harry says "Don't hesitate to sk for clarification in pages if you're
not
sure, either."

You say "This also ties in to not posing to people the second they
enter the
room: an odrop is not a pose, nor is it indicative of how the
person
entered. They might be on fire. Don't wave to them unless they've
posed for
real, or you may look kind of silly. It goes the other way too --
someone in
the room may be a toad. Wait and find out. :)"

Tengu ribbits.

Wilhelmina giggles.

Ron nodnodnods to Pixie. Especially if there's a few people there.
It's
important to know what you're walking into.

Harry says "Conversely, don't pose the second you enter a room. Let
other
people set the scene."

Joshua meows?

Wilhelmina says "It's nice if the people there will acknowledge
newcomers by
posing a 'recap', too. Weather, position of people, etcetera."

Judith was just going to mention that. I know I would react very
differently
if I came into a room and saw Johnboy sitting and reading a
book...or
dancing on a table waving his trousers ovr his head.

Ron covers his innocent eyes.

Joshua laughs

Phoebe whoo hoo's!

You say "The next topic is related: Lazy RP, or My Player is Going To
Bed."

Rhys hehs.

You say "This is more a comment from me: I don't know how many times
I've been
rping with people, and we all know it's afternoon, it is afternoon,
but then
suddenly someone OOCly goes to bed and their character yawns and
heads for
the dorms with a goodnight. Please don't do that. It only makes you
character look silly. :)"

Marian yawns. ;)

Joshua goes up to bed.

Rhys hears the bells ring for the next class and heads out of the
room.

Echidna says "well that also powerposes on everyone too, Rhys."

Wilhelmina wonders if there's the converse: Hyper RP, or Everyone
Watch Out, I
Just Had Sugar.

You say "You can just go up to the dorm for a pencil or paper, or go
to the
bathroom, or just say 'bye' and leave without an explanation."

Ron mmms at Rhys. That might force others to play like they have to
go to
class, too.

Echidna says "now everyone's gotta feel like they need to go to class
whereas
before they felt they need to go to bed."

You say "Right."

Tengu says "There are nearly a billion reasons you can leave a
scene. :)
Especially if it's just a hanging out in the common room scene."

Echidna says "The loo."

Echidna says "the loo is /brilliant/. Who's gonna follow you there?"

Wilhelmina says "Writing a letter to great-great-aunt Edna."

Tengu says "Miriam and Robin. ;)"

Harry says "For guys, maybe, Echidna."

Ron says "Moaning Myrtle."

Pixie snickers.

Anharad grins "Choking Filch's cat :)"

Harry says "Its' well known that girls have to use the loo in groups."

Ron says nothing to that, for personal safety.

Echidna waves her hands. "okay okay, I give!" :)

Phoebe says "harry has a point."

Harry snickers.

Tengu says "So if two girls have to leave a scene, they can go
together. ;)"

You say "Basically, posing that it's late and bedtime is a powerpose
on
everyone else. So, avoid it. ;)"

Harry says "Unless that has been agreed to previously."

You say "Right."

Hermione raises her hand.

Wilhelmina nods sagely. But men don't know that girl's bathrooms are
done out
terrifically, with silk couches and big-screen TVs, while the men
are lucky
if the soap dispensers are filled.

You say "Hermioen?"

Tengu says "Even yawning and going to take a nap is a little strange
in most
cases. :)"

Pixie er, I spelled that right, really.

Ron says "Dang, I should've been born a girl."

Tengu says "It's not too late to change, Ron."

Wilhelmina snickers.

Marian giggles

Hermione giggles. "I just wanted to make a sidenote about power-
walking? If
you've got several people who are moving rooms, in accordance with
current
possibility you're asked to drop at least one pose while moving
through the
room. But what a group might want to do is agree on an emitter and
have that
person drop a group pose, and save others the spam."

Ron doesn't have a comeback to that.

Phoebe says "I knew the lacy robes meant something!"

Harry agrees with Hermione.

You say "That's a good idea, Hermione. But in an addendum to that --
if you're
not going to stop and wait for a pose from the people in the room,
it's not
really all that worth it."

Ginny raises her hand

Ron erfs at Phoebe.

You say "Since we get back to the whole 'X is currently a toad'
problem. If
you pose just walking by while Snape's head is on fire, it doesn't
make a
heck of a lot of sense."

Joshua says "Lol"

Tengu woohoos!

Ron would cheer?

Wilhelmina gets the lighter fluid.

Joshua says "LOL"

You say "Ginny?"

Darren brings the gas cans.

Marian grabs a match.

Sinistra frowns at the group.

Joshua urps and hides from Sinistra...

Anharad looks confused "It doesn't?

Ginny does find it valuable to drop a pose, even if you're continuing
on, if
there is something notable about your passing. For example.. I
paused
earlier today to pose to 2 people that I was being helped to walk,
looked
muddy, and was favoring my arm. Even though I had no intention of
pausing,
the people who saw me pass would probably notice ICly that Ginny
was hurt.
So posing in passing can be good, if there's something the others
would
notice.

Tommy would run away? @;o)=

Snape perches Poohbears on everyone's head. "I've heard of a Muggle
called
William Tell..."

Marian eeps and ducks.

Harry hands Snape a stuffed Eeyore.

Wilhelmina tries to look up at her Poohbear. "Yes, sir?" ;D

Pixie nods. Right. It depends on what's going on.

Rhys tosses a stuffed Barney at Snape.

You say "If you're in a hallway and people come in, and something
weird is
going on, it would behoove you to let them know quickly."

Joshua takes the poohbear off his head and uses his wand to engulf it
with
bluebell flames...

Wilhelmina nods. "That's why I like those little scene-setting
updates. You
can just throw one out - it doesn't have to interrupt pose order."

You say "The last topic on our agenda is commentary in poses. Now,
this is a
bit of a twitchy topic: each game has its own standard for this, as
does
each player. But /here/ the standard has been to keep it to a
minimum. I'll
give an example of both, just to make clear what I mean:

Joe smiles brightly at Jack. Really, Joe has been boinking Jack's
wife on the
side, but he still smiles brightly, because who would know? Not
Jack, the
clueless. "Hello," he chirps.

Joe smiles brightly at Jack, carefully masking anything but the aura
of polite
interest he wishes to convey. "Hello," he chirps, eyes alight with
his
feigned pleasure at meeting the other man."

Wilhelmina raises her hand.

You say "Basically, commentary is.. comments. Things which are OOC
observations, and which other people cannot react to. Things which
it is
often frustrating /not/ to react to, and thus we end up with weird
commentary going back and forth, but none of it is IC."

You say "Some commentary is inevitable, but it should be kept to a
minimum."

You say "Wilhelmina?"

Tengu says "Sometimes it's the character's thoughts and feelings.
Sometimes
it's background information which if it's really important people
in the
room know, you should page them. But probably they already know it,
or
wouldn't ICly know it anyway, so it makes no difference."

Wilhelmina notes, "I admit I'm lazy about commentary (I've heard it
called
metaposing) when I'm playing with a group of players I know really
well.
Mostly because it lends itself to humorous RP. I'd definitely keep
it out of
serious RP, though."

Harry raises a hand.

You say "It /can/ be fun. I've had great fun with it myself. If
you're just
RPing with one or two other people and you all want to RP like
that, that's
fine. In a big group, it's a little better to avoid it."

You say "Harry?"

Ron is kind of guilty of comments in his poses, but it's always been
my style.
I've never played on Pern places like a lot of people here, so it's
something I try to work on. Sometimes it comes as a result of
trying to tell
the story rather than just doing actions and talking. In larger
groups, I
try to cut back to the necessary stuff.

Wilhelmina nods at Ron.

Dryad mentions that she's seen it on Pern games, so not even they are
innocent. :)

Harry notes that sometimes it's better to be a little vague. In real
interaction, it is easy to misconstrue a comment or body language.
Therefore, I try to leave a bit of doubt as to true intent where I
can, as
in 'Harry's eyes narrow, and he frowns, his eyes boring into you'
is better
than 'Harry's suspicious now, and he stares hard at you.'

Tengu nods. It can be more fun to /not/ know why someone's acting as
they are.
To see if you and your character can guess accurately or if you're
way off
base.

You say "Right. It's similar to not putting something of that nature
into your
description."

Ron grins at Dryad. Not saying all people there pose without
comments - just
that when it's been mentioned to me before, some people have used
the Pern
example to me, suggesting more people there stick to more basic
stuff.
Something like that? I couldn't say. *nods to Harry*

Wilhelmina raises her hand with a separate-but-slightly-related
question.

You say "Wilhelmina?"

Wilhelmina says "IF comments are included in poses (and I'm thinking
also of
similies and metaphors used to explain action and sound and such),
should
they pertain to what the characters would know, or can they pertain
also to
what the people would know? For instance, if one were on a Pern
game, would
it be appropriate to describe a rumbling 'like a diesel motor'? Or
better to
say, "like a rock rolling down a hillside?" Just something I've
always
wondered about."

Snape raises his hand. :)

Tengu eyes Snape suspiciously. :)

Snape says "It wasn't a rude gesture, Tenug, nyeah. :)"

Snape err, Tengu, I can spell, honest.

Joshua notes that it is spelled nyeh, not nyeah...

You say "My personal feeling is that metaphors can be OOC, if it
helps the
other players get an idea of what you're doing, but that it can
also be
somewhat jarring to read, and interrupt the suspension of disbelief
that you
get going. So it's up to you."

You say "Snape?"

Ginny raises her hand

Tengu says "Like some people might pose /entirely/ like a little kid
if
they're playing a little kid. While other people would pose with
big words
and stuff and come out with 'Mommy!' at the end of it. :) It's
probably
better to be somewhere in between."

You say "Ginny?"

Snape nyeahs at Joshua. "It's not a real word anyway and can also be
seen as
nyah. Anyway. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP-Logs/message/16 is
the log of
the OOC seminar I run waaaaaaay back in January. It has more info
on
commentary in poses in it. :)

Joshua says "It is a word to me. :P"

Wilhelmina oohs, and thanks Snape. ^_^

Dryad eyes Snape and Joshua.

You say "Since this was the last topic on the agenda, did anyone else
have
something they wanted covered that didn't get into the list? Or
comments on
the earlier topics?"

Echidna says "I have one."

You say "Ok. Go ahead Echi, but don't pose until after Ginny's
comment. :)"

Ginny uses some commentary, and isn't sure if she should have used it
the way
that she did. For example, today I included in a pose a comment
that Ginny,
with a passle of older brothers, knows that injuries are a part of
Quidditch. I used it to try to explain why she wasn't particularly
upset
about being hurt. Kind of as a reminder that brothers = injuries
occassionally. Should I try to avoid that more?

Ron says "That's the sort of 'part of telling the story' bit I think
I use
some of."

Harry nods and will occasionally use that himself.

Joshua needs to log for a little while.

Echidna says "It is generally assumed that people log into this game
to enjoy
role-playing with other people. It is established news policy that
if you
have a prefect character or a professor, you cannot use them to
reward your
character, or similarly, to subject your character to angsty
punishments.
Similarly, the Admins frown on creation of alts solely for the
purpose of
interacting with your own character."

You say "I don't have the pose here to look at, but I don't think
commentary
should be outright banned. It can add to the narrative, and
sometimes it's
very useful. It just gets bad when it's overused. It would be just
as bad to
always do 'says' poses and never put in an action."

Ron says "I look at it like you're not just reading the poses, but I
try to
make it like the book in ways."

You say "So probably your use was fine, Ginny."

Ginny says "Okie, thanks. :)"

Echidna says "If you're here to RP, you should be interacting with
others, not
pitting two of your characters against each other to some pre-
scripted end."

Joshua waves goodbye to everyone, "See you later."

Wilhelmina waves to Josh.

Ron nodnods.
You say "Night, Joshua."

Denman wave

Denman whistles a little tune.

Echidna says "There are plenty of other characters here to interact
with
besides yourself. Keep that in mind."

Echidna says "now I'm done :)"

Harry waves to Denman. This is actually an OOC discussion.

You say "Okay. Unless anyone else has something to say, I think we're
all
done. The log will go up on the list pretty soon so people who
missed can
see it. :)"

Denman already knows this, but he thanks you for your assumption that
Denman
is an completely naive person. :)

Wilhelmina claps for the admins. ^_^

Ron just wants to say, be excellent to each other... And party on,
dudes!

Anharad says "thanks for the seminar :)"

Snape air guitars with Ron.

You say "Thank you all for coming and for your highly useful
comments."

Darren plays air guitar.
--- End forwarded message ---
--- End forwarded message ---