--- In hpmush-logs@yahoogroups.com, "jellyn7" <julie@c...> wrote:
--- In HP-Logs@y..., Jellyn <julie@c...> wrote:

Title: RP/Plots/Events Seminar
Who: Tengu and a bunch of cool people who showed up
What: Discussion of students acting their age, animals being weird,
how to
use NPCs, how to run events, logging, and other foo.
When: RL date - Wednesday, February 6, 2002
Watch For: Pern reference ;)
Logger: Tengu

OOC Lounge

You say "Let's start with the pet peeves and we can close with them
if people
think of more near the end. :) On my list are: People who don't
act their
IC age, animals that act more like familiars and other animal
annoyances,
and unfindable people."

You say "So let me say my piece on students who don't act their age,
then
everyone can feel free to discuss. :)"

Natalie says "okies."

You say "If you're 11, you do not have an advanced vocabulary, even
if you're
a Ravenclaw who does a lot of reading. There are some words and
turns of
phrase that you just are unlikely to spontaneously come out and
say.. even
if you may understand them. A person's passive vocabulary (what
they can
read and understand) is different from their active one (what
they'll
actually say in everyday conversation). Also, first years are most
likely
not even into puberty.. so they will not be obsessed with who's
rumored to
be crushing on whom.. or who's going to the ball with whom.. it's
still at
the 'eew.. boys' stage for most of them."

You say "And their logic and reasoning isn't quite as developed as
say a 6th
year. And their emotions are much closer to the surface and not
always
under their full control. Of course this is all generalities. And
that's
all I've got. :)"

Michael says "The 11 year old vocabulary depends on what others
around him
use. I know an 11 year old who is home schooled and lives with
four adults.
He doesn't have just a kid's vocabulary. Emotions, yes."

Natalie says "Exceptions exist, but Tengu referred to generalities."

Victoria says "The british also have a different active vocabulary
than
americans. So people may also be trying to reproduce that."

Bridget steps Out Of Character.
Bridget has arrived.

Nicodemus says "As the only First Year present, I should comment. :)"

Tengu would give examples, but I can't think of any and wouldn't want
to quote
people or name names anyway. But I'm not trying to say that 11
year olds
are dumb. Just a little less sophisticated than an older student.
In
/general/. I'm sure most 1st year Ravenclaws could give Crabbe and
Goyle a
run. ;)

You say "The other thing is, a first year student has only been
actively
learning and practicing magic for 2 months right now. You're not
gonna know
much."

Draco says "Run, heck, they could probably beat 'em. ;)"

You say "Does that mean you're gonna comment, Nico? :)"

Tengu takes the silence as a no. On to the next bit then if no one has
anything else on that.

Nicodemus says "I hope I haven't been falling into that category. ;)
When
Harry dropped the wolfsbane in that potions class, Nico outright
pouted.
He's a kid trying to get stright A's essentially, but he's still a
kid.
Older students are a lot bigger to him and more sophisticated, as
you said.
He's not going to react the same way to another First Year as on
older
student; he's also very much the 'isn't this cool!' frame of mind."

Nicodemus is here. :>

You say "There's a good point though. They're 'ickle' firsties for a
reason.
Older kids are going to be a lot bigger and taller."

Michael says "Is part of the problem the mixed age classes? Like
potions?"

Nicodemus is fond of the mixed-age classes.

You say "Do you think it's a problem?"

Ginny says "I don't think mixed classes are the problem, so much as
people not
stopping to think of what would be appropriate for the character
that they
are supposed to be playing. Some people may have wanted to make
firsties
for the sorting, or whatever reason, but then aren't stopping to
think that
they are supposed to be "11".. not 15 or 16."

Natalie says "I do rather like smaller classes, though."

Ginny says "Or someone wants to be the very mature "exception" to the
rule..
but then several people do it, and suddenly all of the firsties
are 11
going on 30."

You say "Logistically, holding classes for each year would be
difficult. And
we don't have the playerbase right now to support a class of only
one year
for some of the years, especially electives."

Michael says "Problem is the wrong word. The tendency to talk like
your peer
group is strong. And when your peer group includes 7th years, the
1st years
slide up the evolutionary ladder."

Tengu hrms. You may have a point. I think there's only been one event
with
just first years?

Natalie says "Maybe keeping them grouped with secondies."

Natalie says "if possible, that is."

Victoria says "Breaking the class groups into 3 sections instead of 2
like has
been happening?"

Natalie says "I just think it's kind of hard to get into and keep in
character
when there's just so much going on. Besides, if you have alts and
you're in
one of those big classes, sometimes you've got a few chars in the
same
scene. Splitting them up would allow at least me personally to
concentrate
on one at a time while allowing all to get to attend a particular
professor's subject."

Draco says "I'm actually fine with the mixed age classes. Then again,
I'm
usually in the 'older' group, so I wouldn't be one to see the
problems
folks have mentioned. Playing a child is always difficult, even if
the
player is a child. Generally, an adolescent/teenager precocious
enough to
find the net and get into online gaming isn't going to come off
like your
standard 11-12 year old. ;) Like Natalie, I think it's pretty
chaotic - I'd
honestly say it depends partially on the teachers. It's got to be
difficult
to run 2 classes a week (older and younger), much less 3+.
Remember, these
folks have lives too. ;)"

You say "Okay. So I'll suggest/request that of the teachers."

Natalie nods at Draco. "True. And I"m not saying it should be a
requirement,
but if someone wants to do things that way, then it's cool by
me." :)

Natalie says "I hafta idle for a bit to eat dinner, but I shall
return."

You say "Well, they needn't run a class for every age group every
week. One
class a week would give everyone a class in that subject every
month.
Anyway.. that sort of leads into plots/events.. which I hope to
get to. So
let's move on to animals."

You say "Animals who act OOCly or more like familiars than pets."

Mreow?

You say "A toad is not going to do much but hop, eat flies, and
croak. A rat
or a cat can do more, but they're just animals. Until Rowling
tells us
otherwise. :)"

Nicodemus says "My owl can make a mean owl pellet!"

You say "They can not understand English unless it's something very
simple
like 'fish'. :)"

Nicodemus ducks.

You say "Owls are more intelligent, or they'd never be able to
deliver things.
But they are not telepathic or anything.. and they're still going
to act
like owls."

Dario says "But what sort of intelligence are animals allowed to
have? I
believe JKR said Crookshanks is partly some magical creature or
another so
that explains its intelligence. But what about owls capable of
delivering
mail to anyone you ask them to? Including folks like Sirius who
are in
hiding?"

You say "Crookshanks is sort of unofficially part-kneazle (Since that
was in
an interview, not the books). Kneazles are more intelligent than
your
average cat, but they are /not/ sentient. They have an uncanny
ability to
detect suspicious people and they can lead their owners home when
lost.
That's it."

You say "And kneazles need to be licensed, so no one but Hermione is
going to
have even a partial one. At least not without going through Dryad
first.
But don't expect a yes. :)"

Dario says "Yes, I realize all that. It was just an example. But are
other
animals supposed to be just as dumb as RL animals? Or do wizard
toads/rats/cats have any sort of "magical" ability in the same way
mail
delivering owls do?"

You say "They have no magical ability until/unless Rowling tells us
so."

Dario says "Okay. So is the owl ability to seek out people around the
world
considered to be magic or some sort of extreme training?"

You say "We do see rats acting un-rat-like in Diagon Alley, but we
don't know
for sure they were rats. Harry might've just thought they were
rats."

Draco says "When dealing with animals, I always try to remember
Crookshanks as
an example. The suppliment book on magical creatures discussed him
as being
an actual halfbreed magical creature. Most animals are not. (Owls
have yet
to be completely explained as to how they deliver mail - and
because the
books focus on Harry and Hedwig, who is mentioned as being a very
smart owl
- you never see messages going astray. Taking forever (Errol),
yes, but not
actually going astray. It has to happen.) They cannot communicate
with you
any more than your average dog or cat can. Even Crookshanks didn't
tell
Hermione what he was up to with Scabbers or Sirius. She had no
idea he was
sneaking out of the dorm. So please, please, please! Think before
you delve
into RP that might indicate that your animal told you what was
going on, or
where it might even be implied. Yes, they're puppets on game (for
those who
have created them), and you can 'see' through them, but that's OOC
for game
mechanics, not IC. ;)"

Tengu nodnods. What your animal sees, you did /not/ see. They are not
even
firelizards. Not even the owls are firelizards.

You say "To use a Pern reference. :)"

You say "Even Fawkes does not communicate unusually with Dumbledore.
He's
intelligent and sensitive.. but even real life dogs and cats can
save
people in trouble."

You say "If anyone has anything else to say, please say it soon. I
want to
keep this moving."

Maximilian always just assumed that owls are as intelligent as people
in the
books. "They just don't have the vocal ability to speak, and their
claws
aren't really built for writing out messages." ;)

Draco grins. Pigwidgeon isn't. ;)

Draco says "Or, rather, doesn't seem to be. ;)"

Dario says "But the Weasley's never have anything good. ;)"

Bridget goes home.
Bridget has left.

You say "As intelligent as they are, other than delivering messages,
they
still act like owls. They have owl concerns. Food, sleep,
affection. Just..
roleplay them as owls not an extension of yourself."

You say "The next bit is being unfindable. It's your right to set
yourself
unfindable. But some people find it annoying if you always are."

You say "And you won't get roleplay if no one knows where you are. :)"

You say "If anyone has anything to say on that..."

Wren steps Out Of Character.
Wren has arrived.

You say "And now I'll open the floor to other pet peeves that people
didn't
@mail me about. :) What's bugging you? :)"

Michael says "What kind of spells do you have going that keeps the
cats from
eating the rats and the owls?"

Michael says "Sorry."

Dario says "Well, despite being guilty of it myself, it seems that
lots of
people tend to hang out in their dorm rooms or their common rooms.
Perhaps
we could have more arranged breakfast/dinner RP sessions in the
hall? Or
any other non-class RP thats open for all houses? :)"

You say "The owls can look after themselves in regards to the cats.
The rats
had better be watched by their owners. The cats and owls /will/
eat them if
they can catch them."

You say "Dario, that brings me back to the same thing with the
classes. So let
me just say it. :)"

Dario says "Okay."

Nicodemus has one, but I have to idle, "Not really a pet peeve, but
NPC
handling. As everybody here knows, or should know by now, I have a
twin
sister who's an NPC. ;) I've found it difficult to balance her
without
actually Rping her as well, or leaving her bland so that a
potential player
can develop her. NPC family, basically."

Nicodemus now idles and will hopefully be back before the seminar
ends. :)

You say "The Admins and the faculty are not here to give you roleplay
every
night. It is up to /you/ to find your own roleplay situations and
things to
do on nights where there is no activity scheduled. And a class and
a
dinner and everything is what /you/ make of it. It won't be fun for
you if you're waiting around for something to happen."

Draco says "My own personal pet peeve is twofold and has to do with
entering
RP and rooms. When you enter a room for the first time, don't
assume that
you can see everything going on - the great hall is a good
example. It
holds *how* many students and those 4 huge long tables? It's
enormous! ;)
Likewise, when someone enters a room, please make an effort to
pose what
you're doing. Even if it's sitting with your nose stuck in a book
so you
don't see them come into the library. ;)"

Tengu nods. If possible, you should +watch the room for a little
while before
entering. Then you'll already know what's going on and whether you
even
want to be there or not. :)

Maximilian nods in agreement with that. "It's hard trying to figure
out who's
doing what where with whom, when people don't give you a courtesy
pose when
you enter the room."

You say "Related to that, when you walk into a public room you
do /not/ have
to page and say 'am I interrupting?'. You're not interrupting,
you're
joining the rp. It's interrupting to ask if you're
interrupting. :)"

Ginny says "Ooh.. and related to Draco's. If you're in a large room
that's got
10 other people in it, or if you're in the library and have posed
being
across the room from two people who are talking to each other--
don't assume
that you've heard every word that they've said. If people pose
talking
quietly or whispering to each other, everyone else in the room
shouldn't
assume they can hear every word."

Natalie says "Also, if you're entering a class with a lot of folks
simultaneously, it might be nice to include in your pose /where/
you're
sitting, so people know whether or not they're near you, or could
envision
who's where."

You say "I've also got written down here.. proper use of channels and
pages
and things."

You say "If you're in your common room, then your House channel is
the perfect
one to use for rp coordination. If you're in class, then the Class
channel
is good. If you're in a /huge/ rp (oy) then OOC is good. mp/h has
been
coded, but try not to use it if you don't have to."

You say "Some people, me for one, don't care that you're idling for 10
minutes, or that you have to leave (We'll see you leave), or if
you made a
typo. So I almost always have OOC turned off. Cuz.. I don't
care. :)"

You say "There's a difference between rp coordination and needlessly
spamming
people I guess is what I'm saying."

Natalie says "That does bring a point to mind, though. If you know
you're
going to be /extraordinarily/ slow to respond, don't idle in a
public room."

Natalie says "I've been left waiting 20+ minutes for a response to an
entrance."

You say "Anything else? I'll go on with my agenda here if not."

Michael says "Very minor peeve. I would prefer that someone leave the
room
before going +ooc or other teleports."

Tengu nodnods.

You say "LEt's see.. I have on here.. Logging. Do it."

You say "Don't rely on someone else to be logging your scene. And if
you're in
the middle of a scene or an OOC discussion that may be important
later, log
it. And if you edit your log, you should keep an uneditted version
as a
sort of backup."

You say "This is especially important if you have a complaint you
want to
bring to the Admins. We need an uneditted log of the incident to
be as
unbiased as possible."

You say "If you /can/ log, you should. :)"

Michael whines, "But I don't /want/ to log."

Dario says "On a similar note, I'd like to see more bbposts of
important and
semi-important stuff because, I for one, don't really have the
time to read
through the log list. I don't know how many other folks have
similar
concerns."

Darren says "I agree. I've just recently setup my client to start
logging on
connect to the game."

Tengu /always/ starts a log right before venturing out in public. I
want my rp
for my own reference later.

You say "Any other peeves? I have Plots and Events next on my list,
so the
actual juicy stuff is next. :)"

Darren says "I do need to go actually. Early morning tomorrow."
Darren has left.

You say "Plots: You can and are encouraged to run plots of your own.
Again,
don't rely on the Admins to give you things to rp. But when coming
up with
a plot (whether planned or spontaneous), think it through. Will
this lead
to consequences you'd rather not face? Are there huge plot holes
in your
idea? If possible, run it by someone else so they can help you
poke holes
in it or point out potential results."

Dario has disconnected.

You say "And when coming up with ideas, see if you can make it fun or
interesting for other people. /But/ do not drag people into your
idea if
they don't want to be part of it."

You say "If it will potentially affect the rest of our House, talk to
your
Prefect(s) or Head of House. If it's bigger than that, please
bring it to
the Admins first."

You say "Did people have questions or comments on this?"

Natalie says "/could/ we send a mail to the Admins even if it was
something
smaller but we wanted to be sure such a thing was possible?"

You say "Definitely. But send it to *plots."

Dario has connected.

You say "If you bring it to just one Admin, they'll just have to wait
around
to bring it up to the others or forward it. Or may flatly tell you
No when
the other Admins might think differently. :)"

Natalie says "Right, that's what I meant."

Nicodemus comes back.

You say "No comments? Did you all want examples of what plots should
probably
go to Prefects/HOHs? And which should definitely go to the Admins?"

Dario says "Sure. :)"

You say "Let's see.. if you're going to kill off a relative of yours,
you
should talk to your Prefect/HOH. If you want your relative to die
in a
plague or an earthquake, you should bring that to the Admins.
Especially if
they live in the UK.. because that's going to affect more than
just your
character. :)"

You say "If you want to sneak into the kitchens, you don't need to
run that by
anyone. If you want to bring a lot of food back to your common
room for a
party, you should run that by your Prefect/HOH and make it an
actual
planned event. More fun that way. :)"

Nicodemus holds onto Nadine and doesn't want her to die!

You say "If you want an NPC student to die, that has to go through
Admins."

You say "By relatives, I meant off-camera ones. :)"

Wren raises her hand.

Nicodemus says "Whew. Good."

You say "Fire away, Wren. :)"

Wren blushes. "So, I was sort of worried about that. This is probably
dumb,
but, how much liberty can we take with NPCs? I know about not the
FC ones,
but the others... Wren's rarely without her friends, so sometimes
I'm
worried that I'm bordering on Power Playing because I'm playing 3
people."

Nicodemus nods! I worry about that myself.

Tengu didn't mean to rush past that before, Nico. I just sorta forgot
right
after I read it. :}

You say "If you create an NPC, it's your own. You can use it how you
want. The
ones on the Quidditch teams and the NPC Prefects more belong to
your House
as a group though."

You say "You should try not to use an FC or PC name, or one already
in the NPC
database. '+help npc'."

You say "And if you went so far as to name the npc, you should
probably put
them in the NPC database. Unless they're just a one-use sort of
thing."

Wren nods and is working on putting hers in. "O.K., that helps.
Thanks."

You say "You don't have to fill out all their information in the
database, but
put as much as you know."

Ginny raises her hand

You say "You don't have to raise you rhand. :) Fire away."

Ginny says "I've read the restrictions on using FC npcs. One thing
that's a
little odd for me--2/3 of my family are NPC fcs. Is it possible to
use them
for stupid family stuff without approval (like claiming I got a
letter from
home, etc?) I'm sure there are some other people, like Draco, in a
similar
situation."

Draco does have some of the same issues too. When I use Crabbe and
Goyle, I
try to use them very sparingly, primarily because I don't want
folks who
may end up as players to have to slog through huge amounts of
backhistory,
and too because I'd rather RP with the PCs, not the NPCs. So
generally, if
I pose them, I pose like 2-3 'flavor' poses, and let them fade
into the
background unless someone else specifically RPs off them.

You say "Ginny, your off-camera family.. you can receive letters from
them.
They're the least likely to be cast any time soon. Fred and George
should
be used sparingly.. /hopefully/ we'll get players for them soon."

Natalie says "before their 7th and final year's over."

Natalie has to leave for sleep. "Thank you, Tengu."

You say "You can coordinate some with Ron. Basically, don't give your
older
brothers new jobs or anything. They're all still doing what they
were doing
in book 4. :)"

Ginny noddles "Okay. Thanks."

You say "If you have further questions, please @mail the Admins."

You say "As for /over/using NPCs.. if you're roleplaying with them
more than
with other PCs, you might want to tone it down. It can't be
terribly
interesting for you to be doing that all the time. :)"

Natalie goes home.
Natalie has left.

Wren nods.

You say "Or have your NPCs interact more with other PCs."

Nicodemus says "Hmm?"

Wren has held an entire conversation with Salia without her character
actually
saying a word. :o) It's fun.

You say "Sitting in a corner plotting with your sister isn't very
interesting
for you or anyone else in the room. But sitting in the corner
plotting
while your sister is having a conversation with another PC..
involves you
and that player in something."

Tengu usually only uses an NPC if my own character wouldn't interact
in an
interesting way in the situation.. so I need someone more outgoing
or rude
to say all the interesting things. :)

Nicodemus says "So I can actually RP my sister, somewhat?"

You say "Feel free to keep talking about this or bring up other
things, but
I'm going to go on to what I want to say about events before this
runs too
long."

You say "Yes, but like I said about overusing.. you don't want to
roleplay her
to such an extent that you might as well be logged in and playing
her."

You say "If you want to do that, you'll have to ask the Admins for a
waiving
of the two alts in a House rule."

Nicodemus nods. I want to avoid overuse/twinking etc/

You say "Events: /Everyone/ can run events. It doesn't have to be
anything
interesting. It could just be breakfast. Or a party. Or a study
session."

You say "How to run them: Schedule them at least a couple days in
advance, so
everyone has a chance to plan their RL to attend if they want to.
Try not
to schedule it with something that's conflicting. Eventually we'll
have a
command tom ake it easier to see when things are scheduled."

You say "And the /important/ thing is.. make them interactive and
interesting
for everyone. A lecture by Binns is going to be dull, dull,
dull... which
is probably why no one's applied to play him. ;)"

You say "It's why the best classes are hands-on."

Wren shudders at the thought.

Maximilian has disconnected.

You say "You're not there to entertain everyone by performing.. but
by giving
them things to do, directing the rp.. keeping it moving.. the best
event
coordination involves you prompting it maybe once every half hour
or so. :)"

Maximilian has connected.
Maximilian kicks his connection.

You say "And that takes care of everything I had written down in my
notes."

Wren says "Should events be planned IC, or can they be spontanious
for the
characters?"

You say "OOC planning doesn't need to mean IC planning no, but you'll
have to
make it clear to people in your posts."

Wren nods. "O.K."

You say "When Snape returned, people somehow got the impression that
it was a
big IC event. It wasn't.. it was just dinner. It just happened
that OOCly
it was somewhat important because.. Snape came back. Not that most
people
cared if he was back or not. :)"

Draco says "They just don't appreciate him. ;)"

Draco wipes the brown stuff off his nose. ;)

Wren tickles Draco.

You say "If anyone else has further comments, questions, peeves,
whatever.. I
can be here for awhile. :)"

Tengu has logged this by the way, and it'll get posted as soon as I
edit some
pages and stuff out. Which will maybe be tomorrow, but no
promises. :)


*Fin*
--- End forwarded message ---
--- End forwarded message ---