I might be able to give you a hand with this - I've been messing
around with creating something similar in a different area.

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the map. Until you mentioned
there was a Chicago-land map in the Pink Book, I didn't realize my
copy was missing it....

If some benevolent soul doesn't have a scan of this [I'd like a copy
too ;) ], drop me a line off-list and we'll see what we can figure out.
Greg


--- In gammaworld@yahoogroups.com, "lythralis" <lythralis@...> wrote:
>
> The two main things I am missing now are the cities of Jainus and Psion City.
Also need to add the eastern shores of Lake Michigan above Ascension (Michigan
City).
>
> They REALLY got it wrong with the location of Gruesome Afbayz/Grissom AFB... 
Currently I have Gary, part of Chicago, the Burnign River (With the oil tanks
located), Yrsahl, Ascension, Bonparr, and the smaller towns/villages.
>
> Also have another map going up the west side from Chicago to Appleton,
including the Brony of Horn area from Legion of Gold. Hexes are the 2km size
from Legiuon of Gold, and some of the rad sones have been color-coded. I still
use the old Intensity system for radiation, and have converted the new d20
"strength" system to work with Intensity. Will post those too at some point.
>
> --- In gammaworld@yahoogroups.com, Kveldulf@ wrote:
> >
> > I don't have a scanned copy or a scanner, unfortunately.
> >
> > That said, it would be great to have a distance-accurate hex version of
> > that map. If you manage to create one, can you put it up somewhere
> > (webpage or in the Group files area)?
> >
> > Good luck with the project!
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lythralis <lythralis@>
> > To: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2009 3:35 am
> > Subject: [gwmg] - GW 4th Edition Great Lakes Map
> >
> >
> > Does anyone have copies scanned of the map of the Great Lakes area in
> > the 4th
> > edition GW rulebook? I've been making a distance-correct hex map of the
> > area.
> > Unfortunately my copy got destroyed :(
> >
> > Can anyone help out?

Assuming no-one has mentioned this yet.
Looks rather bleak in a Threads sort of way.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0898367/

The two main things I am missing now are the cities of Jainus and Psion City.
Also need to add the eastern shores of Lake Michigan above Ascension (Michigan
City).

They REALLY got it wrong with the location of Gruesome Afbayz/Grissom AFB... 
Currently I have Gary, part of Chicago, the Burnign River (With the oil tanks
located), Yrsahl, Ascension, Bonparr, and the smaller towns/villages.

Also have another map going up the west side from Chicago to Appleton, including
the Brony of Horn area from Legion of Gold. Hexes are the 2km size from Legiuon
of Gold, and some of the rad sones have been color-coded. I still use the old
Intensity system for radiation, and have converted the new d20 "strength" system
to work with Intensity. Will post those too at some point.

--- In gammaworld@yahoogroups.com, Kveldulf@... wrote:
>
> I don't have a scanned copy or a scanner, unfortunately.
>
> That said, it would be great to have a distance-accurate hex version of
> that map. If you manage to create one, can you put it up somewhere
> (webpage or in the Group files area)?
>
> Good luck with the project!
>
> Andy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lythralis <lythralis@...>
> To: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2009 3:35 am
> Subject: [gwmg] - GW 4th Edition Great Lakes Map
>
>
> Does anyone have copies scanned of the map of the Great Lakes area in
> the 4th
> edition GW rulebook? I've been making a distance-correct hex map of the
> area.
> Unfortunately my copy got destroyed :(
>
> Can anyone help out?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --------
> To unsubscribe from the Gamma World Mail Group: Send a blank message to
> gammaworld-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
>

I don't have a scanned copy or a scanner, unfortunately.

That said, it would be great to have a distance-accurate hex version of
that map. If you manage to create one, can you put it up somewhere
(webpage or in the Group files area)?

Good luck with the project!

Andy


-----Original Message-----
From: lythralis <lythralis@...>
To: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2009 3:35 am
Subject: [gwmg] - GW 4th Edition Great Lakes Map


Does anyone have copies scanned of the map of the Great Lakes area in
the 4th
edition GW rulebook? I've been making a distance-correct hex map of the
area.
Unfortunately my copy got destroyed :(

Can anyone help out?



------------------------------------

--------
To unsubscribe from the Gamma World Mail Group: Send a blank message to
gammaworld-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

----- Original Message -----

From: Tetsubo

 

So, just how will this 'go bad'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyBR3PDPa-c

So, just how will this 'go bad'?

	 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyBR3PDPa-c
--
Tetsubo
Deviant Art: http://ironstaff.deviantart.com/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/tetsubo57

Does anyone have copies scanned of the map of the Great Lakes area in the 4th
edition GW rulebook? I've been making a distance-correct hex map of the area.
Unfortunately my copy got destroyed :(

Can anyone help out?

Photos to inspire your L.A. based PA games...

	 http://www.emptyla.com/
--
Tetsubo
Deviant Art: http://ironstaff.deviantart.com/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/tetsubo57

Thanks Bob and Thomas,

You both reinforced what I thought I knew about radiation, and the nagging
feeling that the author just didn't understand the topic very well.  I think I
would have really enjoyed this book in 1988 when it was written because I didn't
know much back then, either.  As it is I'm only mostly enjoying the book.

Thanks for the help!

Kevin

--- In gammaworld@yahoogroups.com, Robert Crichton <rcrichton@...> wrote:
>
> I am also ex-Navy, and a former reactor operator. I think the book's
> author knew next to nothing about nuclear power, nuclear fallout, or
> actual Naval personnel and operations, and instead relied on layman's
> myths and old war movies for his information on all three.
> But that's just my opinion. I could write out all my disagreements with
> this book, but it would take several days to edit properly.
> On the other hand, I thought it was great when I was 15, and my own
> knowledge was based on layman's myths and old war movies...
> -Bob C
>
> On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 09:21 -0800, Thomas O. Magann Jr. wrote:
> >
> >
> > Well, I'm both ex navy and I have some experience with shipboard
> > reactors and radioactive contamination, so I'll give it a shot.
> >
> > >However, my disbelief bells began ringing when they encountered an
> > ocean liner that is still running, but everyone aboard is dead. The
> > captain wanted to take the food stores, but their radiation safety guy
> > says they can't take the food because it is all contaminated. Can
> > anyone explain how this could be true? The food is in sealed packages
> > inside storage units inside an ocean liner. Is there any way the food
> > stores could have become contaminated?
> > >
> >
> > alpha and beta particles are, well, particles. They're stopped by
> > pretty much everything, contaminating the packaging without harming
> > the food inside. Of course, Cleaning off the packaging might harm the
> > contents, depending on the product. Tin cans would protect their
> > contents from a dip in the ocean, say, a paper bag of flour or sugar
> > would be a lost cause.
> >
> > Gamma waves are more penetrating, but after the damage is done, not
> > persistant.
> >
> > Those are the basics we used to check for. Secondary radiation in
> > metals such as tin cans is also a problem, and not one that can be
> > fixed.
> >
> > I doubt the food storage lockers on a cruise ship would be
> > hermitically sealed. Well, not the pantry, anyhow, just the
> > refrigerator/freezers. From the description of the setting, there
> > seems to be a fair bit of airborne particulate contamination, so that
> > would be an issue.
> >
> > Come to think, it would be an issue for the destroyer crew, too,
> > although the submarine's filters would likely clean the air well
> > enough.
> >
> > >Separately, the destroyer is apparently running low on nuclear fuel
> > and (presently) they figure that they've only got a few months of
> > steaming left before they will be dead in the water. Again, this sets
> > off my disbelief bells. Isn't part of the reason that they use nuclear
> > power plants is that they can run for a decade or so before refueling?
> > Wouldn't any navy worth it's ships refuel them before they were near
> > catastrophic power loss?
> > >
> >
> > This was already addressed fairly well. Depending on how long since
> > the last refuel, and how long since the fair of civilization, plus, of
> > course, usage, it's going to run dry eventually.
> >
> > A destroyer sounds kind of smallish for reactors to me, too. Women on
> > board, however, not so much of an issue today. (20 years ago, when the
> > book was written, there wouldn't have been any, but things changed mid
> > 90s)
> >
> > Thank you for your time,
> >
> > Thomas O. Magann Jr.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

I am also ex-Navy, and a former reactor operator. I think the book's
author knew next to nothing about nuclear power, nuclear fallout, or
actual Naval personnel and operations, and instead relied on layman's
myths and old war movies for his information on all three.
But that's just my opinion. I could write out all my disagreements with
this book, but it would take several days to edit properly.
On the other hand, I thought it was great when I was 15, and my own
knowledge was based on layman's myths and old war movies...
-Bob C

On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 09:21 -0800, Thomas O. Magann Jr. wrote:
>
>
> Well, I'm both ex navy and I have some experience with shipboard
> reactors and radioactive contamination, so I'll give it a shot.
>
> >However, my disbelief bells began ringing when they encountered an
> ocean liner that is still running, but everyone aboard is dead. The
> captain wanted to take the food stores, but their radiation safety guy
> says they can't take the food because it is all contaminated. Can
> anyone explain how this could be true? The food is in sealed packages
> inside storage units inside an ocean liner. Is there any way the food
> stores could have become contaminated?
> >
>
> alpha and beta particles are, well, particles. They're stopped by
> pretty much everything, contaminating the packaging without harming
> the food inside. Of course, Cleaning off the packaging might harm the
> contents, depending on the product. Tin cans would protect their
> contents from a dip in the ocean, say, a paper bag of flour or sugar
> would be a lost cause.
>
> Gamma waves are more penetrating, but after the damage is done, not
> persistant.
>
> Those are the basics we used to check for. Secondary radiation in
> metals such as tin cans is also a problem, and not one that can be
> fixed.
>
> I doubt the food storage lockers on a cruise ship would be
> hermitically sealed. Well, not the pantry, anyhow, just the
> refrigerator/freezers. From the description of the setting, there
> seems to be a fair bit of airborne particulate contamination, so that
> would be an issue.
>
> Come to think, it would be an issue for the destroyer crew, too,
> although the submarine's filters would likely clean the air well
> enough.
>
> >Separately, the destroyer is apparently running low on nuclear fuel
> and (presently) they figure that they've only got a few months of
> steaming left before they will be dead in the water. Again, this sets
> off my disbelief bells. Isn't part of the reason that they use nuclear
> power plants is that they can run for a decade or so before refueling?
> Wouldn't any navy worth it's ships refuel them before they were near
> catastrophic power loss?
> >
>
> This was already addressed fairly well. Depending on how long since
> the last refuel, and how long since the fair of civilization, plus, of
> course, usage, it's going to run dry eventually.
>
> A destroyer sounds kind of smallish for reactors to me, too. Women on
> board, however, not so much of an issue today. (20 years ago, when the
> book was written, there wouldn't have been any, but things changed mid
> 90s)
>
> Thank you for your time,
>
> Thomas O. Magann Jr.
>
>
>
>

Well, I'm both ex navy and I have some experience with shipboard reactors and
radioactive contamination, so I'll give it a shot.

>However, my disbelief bells began ringing when they encountered an ocean liner
that is still running, but everyone aboard is dead.  The captain wanted to take
the food stores, but their radiation safety guy says they can't take the food
because it is all contaminated.  Can anyone explain how this could be true?  The
food is in sealed packages inside storage units inside an ocean liner.  Is there
any way the food stores could have become contaminated?
>

alpha and beta particles are, well, particles. They're stopped by pretty much
everything, contaminating the packaging without harming the food inside. Of
course, Cleaning off the packaging might harm the contents, depending on the
product. Tin cans would protect their contents from a dip in the ocean, say, a
paper bag of flour or sugar would be a lost cause.

Gamma waves are more penetrating, but after the damage is done, not persistant.

Those are the basics we used to check for. Secondary radiation in metals such as
tin cans is also a problem, and not one that can be fixed.

I doubt the food storage lockers on a cruise ship would be hermitically sealed.
Well, not the pantry, anyhow, just the refrigerator/freezers. From the
description of the setting, there seems to be a fair bit of airborne particulate
contamination, so that would be an issue.

Come to think, it would be an issue for the destroyer crew, too, although the
submarine's filters would likely clean the air well enough.

>Separately, the destroyer is apparently running low on nuclear fuel and
(presently) they figure that they've only got a few months of steaming left
before they will be dead in the water.  Again, this sets off my disbelief bells.
Isn't part of the reason that they use nuclear power plants is that they can run
for a decade or so before refueling?  Wouldn't any navy worth it's ships refuel
them before they were near catastrophic power loss?
>

This was already addressed fairly well. Depending on how long since the last
refuel, and how long since the fair of civilization, plus, of course, usage, 
it's going to run dry eventually.

A destroyer sounds kind of smallish for reactors to me, too. Women on board,
however, not so much of an issue today. (20 years ago, when the book was
written, there wouldn't have been any, but things changed mid 90s)





Thank you for your time,

Thomas O. Magann Jr.

<<-----Original Message-----
From: KevinL <kevin@...>
To: gammaworld@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, Nov 13, 2009 11:20 pm
Subject: [gwmg] - The Last Ship

Hi all,
I'm reading a post-apocalyptic novel titled "The Last Ship".  It is set
in "the
near future", although I think that it is about present day since the
book was
written about twenty years ago.  Anyway, after a massive nuclear
exchange the
only things left (so far) are an American destroyer and a Russian
submarine.
They are working together to find the last uncontaminated place on
earth to
settle and rebuild.

Ok, so my willing suspension of disbelief lets me accept a nuclear
powered
destroyer with a few female crewmembers, and a massive nuclear exchange
that
someone leaves only two ships alive.  (There are people on shore still
alive,
but they are all dying of radiation poisoning.) >>

Well, as far as I know the surface fleet of the Navy is pretty heavily
integrated as
of now as far as females. Not sure about the Navy at the time the book
was written -
but if anything female crew members are much more plausible now than at
time of
writing.

As far as I know, the US never built a nuclear powered destroyer. There
were nuclear
powered cruisers, as well as carriers and subs, but no destroyers.
Maybe that's just a
terminology error in the novel.. Out of curiosity, does the author ever
mention the class
of either the destroyer or sub?


<<However, my disbelief bells began ringing when they encountered an
ocean liner
that is still running, but everyone aboard is dead.  The captain wanted
to take
the food stores, but their radiation safety guy says they can't take
the food
because it is all contaminated.  Can anyone explain how this could be
true?  The
food is in sealed packages inside storage units inside an ocean liner.
Is there
any way the food stores could have become contaminated?>>

Not a physicist here, so I can't comment on the foodstuffs per se. My
only guess would
be that if the packaging was heavily contaminated, the characters might
not be able to
get the food out without it also being contaminated? Though
realistically I suppose you could
just suspend all the food packages over the side in cargo nets as you
steamed for a few days or
weeks and let the seawater wash off the contaminated particles from the
packaging.

If the destroyer was in fact nuclear powered, I'd suppose that their
damage control teams
would have at least some NBC decontamination ability though.


<<Separately, the destroyer is apparently running low on nuclear fuel
and
(presently) they figure that they've only got a few months of steaming
left
before they will be dead in the water.  Again, this sets off my
disbelief bells.
Isn't part of the reason that they use nuclear power plants is that
they can run
for a decade or so before refueling?  Wouldn't any navy worth it's
ships refuel
them before they were near catastrophic power loss? >>

Refueling nuclear vessels is an expensive and time consuming process.
IIRC most ships'
nuclear plants get refueled every 10 to 20 years depending on design
and this process
usually includes a general overhaul since the ship will be docked a
while.

In the event of a global conflict that developed over a few months, a
given ship could
be virtually anywhere in its overhaul cycle. Thus, the ship in the
novel may have been up
for fuel replacement in two years at time of war but was kept at sea
due to imminent
hostilities. Thus, that part about having only a few months of steaming
left could be
completely plausible.

Note that I read some Navy stuff but I'm a landlubber. Any Navy folks
on the list care to
comment?

Andy

Hi all,
I'm reading a post-apocalyptic novel titled "The Last Ship".  It is set in "the
near future", although I think that it is about present day since the book was
written about twenty years ago.  Anyway, after a massive nuclear exchange the
only things left (so far) are an American destroyer and a Russian submarine. 
They are working together to find the last uncontaminated place on earth to
settle and rebuild.

Ok, so my willing suspension of disbelief lets me accept a nuclear powered
destroyer with a few female crewmembers, and a massive nuclear exchange that
someone leaves only two ships alive.  (There are people on shore still alive,
but they are all dying of radiation poisoning.)

However, my disbelief bells began ringing when they encountered an ocean liner
that is still running, but everyone aboard is dead.  The captain wanted to take
the food stores, but their radiation safety guy says they can't take the food
because it is all contaminated.  Can anyone explain how this could be true?  The
food is in sealed packages inside storage units inside an ocean liner.  Is there
any way the food stores could have become contaminated?

Separately, the destroyer is apparently running low on nuclear fuel and
(presently) they figure that they've only got a few months of steaming left
before they will be dead in the water.  Again, this sets off my disbelief bells.
Isn't part of the reason that they use nuclear power plants is that they can run
for a decade or so before refueling?  Wouldn't any navy worth it's ships refuel
them before they were near catastrophic power loss?

By the way, I'm looking for confirmation that neither of these problems is
accurate in our world, but also some good handwavium explanations that will
quite my disbelief bells.  The book is pretty good, but the ringing in my ears
is really interfering with my enjoyment of it.

Thanks!

Kevin

Another trailer for the post-apoc. movie The Road
http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi3885105689/

--Derek S.
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9690331&ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL\
_WIN_evergreen:112009