Working out the posts was very organic, very fluid. It was happening all the
time, so I couldn't say exactly how long it'd take. And since there were
only 5 or 6 of us, we'd all contribute. Since we were all grown-ups with
jobs and families and stuff, we weren't hanging around online all the time.
So we'd either arrange to catch each other online and then you could get the
bones of the post worked out in an hour or so. Then you'd spend a couple
days fleshing it out and emailing it back and forth. Otherwise it took a
week or two emailing to get one done.

(Keep in mind that they averaged about 2000 words, and stuff happened in
them - every post had to advance the plot or there wasn't any point in
writing it.)

Having the plot list from the beginning and making new players go there to
work out what their character was going to be and do before they ever got to
write a post - it immediately made it impossible for players to take any
in-game action personally. It forced them out of the character's skin,
forced a separation between player and PC.

We did throw some wild stuff out there to see what would happen - we just
did it on the plot list, not the actual game list. I found that by giving
them time to absorb a curve, to fully contemplate all the ramifications,
they came up with fallout that was so OUT THERE, some truly wicked crazy
shit that would never have occurred to me in a million years, we'd all be
like "Oh my GAWD that's AWFUL! Let's do that!" I don't think we could have
came up with some of that stuff in the space onlist between one post and the
next.  It made for a far more twisty story, and I had less head-patting and
hand-holding because everyone knew where they stood. Plus, there was more
ownership in the story and pride in each other's characters.

I'll never run a game without a plot list, and that stems from a bad
experience in the first game I played. Long story short, they just grabbed
my character and made her do something I hadn't written, and I had no idea
where to go with that because I couldn't see what the intended end game was.
I was then forced down a roleplaying road I had no desire to visit. That
makes writing a character an unpleasant chore, and I didn't start
roleplaying to add more unpleasant chores to my life. It completely soured
the game for me, and I'll not do that to someone else. I won't let your
character get into a situation that you aren't 100% in favor of writing.

But that's just me.  :)


-b.







On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Why? <punk.ass.philosopher@...>wrote:

>
>
> <snip>
>
> >  That's
> > why I liked to discuss this stuff on my plot lists with my players. It
> gave
> > them time to react themselves to the horrible thing character A was going
> to
> > say or do, and time to realize it's not personal, it's roleplay. Then
> they
> > could decide how their characters were going to react and what reactions
> > would make the best story going forward without the shock and pressure of
> a
> > surprise post sitting out there where someone just threw a beer in their
> > face (or whatever).
> <snip>
>
> That sounds like a very interesting system. How long did it take to
> work things out in real-time per post?
>
> I see that this would definitely help keep the players from taking
> things personally. Personally, as a player I like to throw out some
> wild/creative stuff (and I tend to play characters that would do such
> things) just to see what happens. I don't mind if the character gets a
> bit hurt doing it; that's part of taking a risk. However I know some
> players (and GMs) who take personal offense at such behavior seeing it
> as disrespect or 'pushing it'. This could really help without having
> to explain it every time to new players, etc.
>
> What in your opinion, is the positives and negatives to this scheme,
> having tried it?
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<snip>
>  That's
> why I liked to discuss this stuff on my plot lists with my players. It gave
> them time to react themselves to the horrible thing character A was going to
> say or do, and time to realize it's not personal, it's roleplay. Then they
> could decide how their characters were going to react and what reactions
> would make the best story going forward without the shock and pressure of a
> surprise post sitting out there where someone just threw a beer in their
> face (or whatever).
<snip>

That sounds like a very interesting system. How long did it take to
work things out in real-time per post?

I see that this would definitely help keep the players from taking
things personally. Personally, as a player I like to throw out some
wild/creative stuff (and I tend to play characters that would do such
things) just to see what happens. I don't mind if the character gets a
bit hurt doing it; that's part of taking a risk. However I know some
players (and GMs) who take personal offense at such behavior seeing it
as disrespect or 'pushing it'. This could really help without having
to explain it every time to new players, etc.

What in your opinion, is the positives and negatives to this scheme,
having tried it?

Back now to Han Solo as a character.  I'm not sure how well he would work in
many people's games.  It is like B said, you're waiting for others to approach
you to play.  Because there is nothing in your persona that would make you say,
"You need help, I'll help you."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I think it depends entirely on the player. I've had people who are totally happy
to post solo until they find the right situation to get involved (either for pay
or for other selfishly motivated reasons). I've also had people who refused to
interact, refused to be part of anything, and then complained that no one wanted
to play with them. So I think ultimately as with anything it just depends on the
person playing the char.

Peace & Love,
Beth

Yup, yup, and yup. :)  That rule was for players who, immediately upon
joining use that as their first post. I've always thought of roleplay as
give and take between the players/characters, not as somewhere you show up
and suddenly you're the star. The broody in the corner thing is my pet
peeve. Plot hooks, people, plot hooks! Give your fellow players something to
hang their hats on! And I don't mean your characters thoughts, either;
unless the game is full of mind-readers, your inner reflections don't do any
other players any good.

That said, as far as Han Solo - you could do it, but it'd have to be worked
out beforehand. That sort of character, if the other players don't know
what's going to happen, can hurt some feelings. Han Solo was an asshole -
but I'm sure that Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill weren't upset by his
behavior, although sometimes Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker were.  That's
why I liked to discuss this stuff on my plot lists with my players. It gave
them time to react themselves to the horrible thing character A was going to
say or do, and time to realize it's not personal, it's roleplay. Then they
could decide how their characters were going to react and what reactions
would make the best story going forward without the shock and pressure of a
surprise post sitting out there where someone just threw a beer in their
face (or whatever).

-b.





On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 2:34 AM, Gregory Griffiths <rynok@...> wrote:

>
>
> > So what are your all thoughts?
>
> I think that the Han Solo character, when played right, can be a very
> interesting addition to a game, but at the same time, it takes a certain
> amount of work on the part of the player. By this, I mean that the Han-type
> character is a character who's reactive, not proactive (even after rescuing
> Leia from the Death Star, he still maintained that he was only doing it for
> the reward money, and he fully planned to high-tail it out after getting
> paid), so unless an IC motivation is provided for such a character to join
> up with the otehr characters, all they'll ever be is just another face in
> the crowd. The player has to work with the GM and other players to make sure
> that the specific character can be worked in to the plot when initially
> introduced (after all, if Obi-Wan and Luke hadn't needed a ride to Alderaan
> without the Empire asking too many questions, then there would have been no
> need for a smuggler pilot in the first place, which wouldn't have led to
> Han helping the Rebellion in other capacities).
>
> The main problem (and what, I think, Barb was getting after) is the
> *player* who has the character sitting around waiting for other players to
> provide all the interactions, without doing anything to make sure there's a
> reason for the other players to have a reason to interact with their
> character. But if the player does his/her part of things, and works with
> everyone else to ensure that the Han-style character can be inserted (i.e.
> sending out an OOC note saying something like, "Hey, if you need a pilot who
> can get your character to their destination, they should talk to my
> character. Let's get a joint post going!"), then, as I said, the character
> can be done well.
>
> ~Gregory
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> So what are your all thoughts?

I think that the Han Solo character, when played right, can be a very
interesting addition to a game, but at the same time, it takes a certain amount
of work on the part of the player.  By this, I mean that the Han-type character
is a character who's reactive, not proactive (even after rescuing Leia from the
Death Star, he still maintained that he was only doing it for the reward money,
and he fully planned to high-tail it out after getting paid), so unless an IC
motivation is provided for such a character to join up with the otehr
characters, all they'll ever be is just another face in the crowd.  The player
has to work with the GM and other players to make sure that the specific
character can be worked in to the plot when initially introduced (after all, if
Obi-Wan and Luke hadn't needed a ride to Alderaan without the Empire asking too
many questions, then there would have been no need for a smuggler pilot in the
first place, which wouldn't have led to
  Han helping the Rebellion in other capacities).

The main problem (and what, I think, Barb was getting after) is the *player* who
has the character sitting around waiting for other players to provide all the
interactions, without doing anything to make sure there's a reason for the other
players to have a reason to interact with their character.  But if the player
does his/her part of things, and works with everyone else to ensure that the
Han-style character can be inserted (i.e. sending out an OOC note saying
something like, "Hey, if you need a pilot who can get your character to their
destination, they should talk to my character.  Let's get a joint post going!"),
then, as I said, the character can be done well.

~Gregory

2.
>
>    *"I stand in the corner, not looking at the other patrons."* Posting that
>    you're waiting for someone to interact with you is a no-no. This isn't a
>    chat room. This is a story. Find some plot for yourself, and write it. If
>    I've done my job and you've done yours, you should know exactly what your
>    character is doing and why.

So this post made me think of Han Solo.  Now Han Solo was not a hero when we
first met him in Star Wars.  Not even an anti-hero.  He was more a non-hero.  If
he hadn't of been hired he would've done the same thing forever until his criems
caught up to him.

Back when Dragon Magazine was a magazine (and good) they did an article about
knowing your players desires compared to your own desires.  Typically I play the
hero.  Now I ran a game once where the players all decided to play nonheroes. 
They wanted nothing to do with anyone or anything and the world could go to hell
and they wouldn't care.  Made for a pretty sucky game since I had devised a game
where the hero gets the girl and all that.  (My second endeavor with that group
did much better)

Course now I know where my problems lay with that campaign, I was on a different
page then the others.

Back now to Han Solo as a character.  I'm not sure how well he would work in
many people's games.  It is like B said, you're waiting for others to approach
you to play.  Because there is nothing in your persona that would make you say,
"You need help, I'll help you."

So what are your all thoughts?

Hi, Sarah!  Welcome!


Here's a few thought on my part on your questions:

> How tough it is to run a rpg

I think it can depend on you - your personality, how much time you have
available, even what type of game you're running (i.e. is it based on an already
existing setting - like Star Trek or Harry Potter - or is it in a setting of
your own creation?).

> Should a writing sample be required

Like Barb said, that's up to you.  Personally, I don't go for the seperate
writing sample, because I think I can generally get a good feel for the player's
abilities from their character's bio - but then, I spent several years having
taught new roleplayers in a sim group's academy, so I feel that I've developed
something of an ability to make that kind of a judgement based off of just a
character bio.  The particular past experience and personal preferences of other
vary, so whether or not a strictly bio application or a bio combined with a
writing sample is something that each individual GM may vary.

> how do you create rules etc.

Hez posted to this list a general list of the most commonly held rules for
freeform games that was written a few years ago a while back; it's the post
right before your own (well, technically the *two* posts right before yours, as
YahooGroups apparently decided to get snarky on Hez the first time around and
did some sort of funky formating on the original post).

Of course, you don't have to use those specific ones.  Some things to consider
when creating your rules list:

*What's the sim's rating?  What kind of content do you allow?  This ensures that
no one gets surprised by reading something they thought wouldn't come up in the
game (at least not in any detail), or that they'll get into trouble with you for
writing something they shouldn't have.

*What's the sim's posting rate?  Once a week?  More?  Less?  And what does a
player do if they really can't come up with anything to write about, or if they
know they have to attend to RL duties that will keep them away from the sim for
longer than the maximum amount of time allowed between posts?

*What's your stance on players writing for other players' characters?

*How do you deal with simultaneous posts that address the same issue
independently of each other?

~Gregory

Welcome to the group!

Running a game pointers:
1. Decide what you'll put up with before you start, character-wise and
player-wise.
2. Make your rules, and realize they apply to you too.
3. DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY. (That one deserves all caps, because I think
it's the hardest thing for a GM to do.)
4. Be kind, even when you want to smack the crap out of someone.
5. If you've got to write that disciplinary email, write it, save it, don't
send it. Put it away for a day. Go back to it after 24 hours, remove
anything highly emotional, reactionary, or accusatory. See rule #3. Then
send it if you still think you need to.
6. Remember the phrase "I'm sorry you feel that way, and I wish you luck in
your future endeavors."


How tough is it to run a game? Depends on the game, the players, and how
they all interact. The last game I ran wasn't tough to run, but it was
time-consuming.

Should a writing sample be required? That's up to you. It depends on how
strict you want to be. I was in a game once where a player had only the
barest grasp of english, and his posts would have made an elementary school
english teacher poke his eyes out with a spoon. But - once you figured out
what he was trying to say, his posts were some of the most creative and
funny ones of anyone in the group. So it's up to the GM to decide how wound
up they want to get about grammar.

That said, if it drives you mad to see "your" instead of "you're" and
"there" instead of "their" or "they're", you probably want a writing sample.
I used to take posts from any old game they'd been in before. Everybody has
a favorite post they've written.

How do you create rules? You copy someone else's rules, of course. *lol*
The folks in this group will be glad to direct you to their rules pages so
you can pick and choose the rules you want.

On one game I wrote a field guide on how to annoy me.

    1.

    *"I don't see why I can't... "* I'm all for discussions, and I don't make
    decisions arbitrarily. I have no problem sharing with you the reasons behind
    my decisions. But once the decision has been made, the discussion is OVER.
    Keeping after it like a dog with a bone isn't going to score you any points
    with me. If you want a hand growing out of your forehead and I say you can't
    have one, that's it, man. Let it go.
    2.

    *"I stand in the corner, not looking at the other patrons."* Posting that
    you're waiting for someone to interact with you is a no-no. This isn't a
    chat room. This is a story. Find some plot for yourself, and write it. If
    I've done my job and you've done yours, you should know exactly what your
    character is doing and why.
    3.

    *"You're stifling my creativity!"* No, I'm forcing you to write a story
    that follows the guidelines I've laid out. If you can't live comfortably
    within the confines of the world, you're free to leave at any time.



Snickerdoodles. Yum. Here's the ones I make. Over 2000 reviewers can't be
wrong. http://allrecipes.com/recipe/mrs-siggs-snickerdoodles/detail.aspx

-b.





On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Sarah Noel <
compassionate_flowerchild@...> wrote:

>
>
> Your Name: Sarah Noel
>
> How long have you been playing RPGs online? A Year and half
>
> How long have you been running online RPGs? I currently do not run one, I
> want to get some pointers and see what more experinced people say about it
> before I do start one.
>
> What are the games you run?
> What sort of things would you like to see discussed in this list? How tough
> it is to run a rpg, Should a writing sample be required, how do you create
> rules etc.
>
> Any other questions, comments, political statements, death threats, or
> cookie recipes?
> Does anyone have a snickerdoodle recipe I would love to have one
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]