>How on earth do you justify giving him a strength of 75? That's
>pretty...out
>there.

>-I use the "Mythos Comparative Size Chart" on page 135 of the 5.5 edition
>of
>the Call of Cthulhu rules.  I find the weight on that chart that someone
>can
>lift, or my best guesstimate, and read off the corresponding SIZe score as
>the necessary STRength.

So Michael Myers can lift between 14 - 15 Tons? I'll admit that I only ever
saw one Halloween movie (IV? V?), but that still seems really excessive.

J

_________________________________________________________________
Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy
patented spam control and more.  Get two months FREE!
http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa

On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 12:13:06AM -0700, Morrigan wrote:
>
> The CoC stats tend to skew towards the less physically able, since
> those were Lovecraft's characters.  Highly physically capable people
> (soldiers, committed athletes, that sort of thing) would have
> STRength, CONstitution, and DEXterity scores in the 30s.
> Professional strongmen would have STRength scores between 32 and 40,
> for example, and Olympic gymnasts or professional martial artists
> would have DEXterity scores around 32 as well.

While you have some arguments for the insane STR scores (arguable, and
I don't really agree, but at least there is a justification behind
them) - where do you get the notion that CON and (especially) DEX
scores "would" hit over 30 for humans who happen to have certain
skills and training?

For the record, my disagreement is first of all that in CoC, STR+SIZ
is what makes actual strength - your calculations are really off by
50%. A useful stat for Jason would probably be 75 STR+SIZ total, from
the calculations. Second of all that the system *is* designed around
humans having 3-18. Humans. Not scholars. Humans.

Jesper

--- In dglist@yahoogroups.com, Brett Dixon <balance@t...> wrote:
> Add-on to the Wiki discussion:
>
> The following article discusses a Wiki version that supports more
> 'moderation' allowing bad sections to be rated as such and replaced...
> Might be useful.


TEASE!

Do you forget to attach, quote or reference the article?

Is it Twiki?

So Michael Myers can lift between 14 - 15 Tons? I'll admit that I only ever
saw one Halloween movie (IV? V?), but that still seems really excessive.
>>>>>I guess so.  It's been a while since I came up with the stats, but I'd
bet it all made sense in terms of my calculations at the time.   The
calculations I did were largely based on Michael launching the powerplant
worker Bucky through the air in Halloween 4.  The model I used to determine
Michael's physical strength was Spider-Man.  According to Marvel Comics'
published statistics for Spider-Man, the Wall Crawler can lift about that
much, and Michael seems to be about as strong as Spider-Man is in the better
written comics.<<<<<

While you have some arguments for the insane STR scores (arguable, and I
don't really agree, but at least there is a justification behind them) -
where do you get the notion that CON and (especially) DEX scores "would" hit
over 30 for humans who happen to have certain skills and training?
-I'll admit its difficult, because there aren't any bench marks the weay
there are for STRength, SIZe, and EDUcation, but it does seem a reasonable
assumption to make, to me at least.  The way that characteristic scores are
generated under the CoC BRP rules produce the heroes of Lovecraft's stories,
intentionally or otherwise.  Lovecraft's heroes were not physical paragons -
by his own admission they were mostly dreamy artist sorts or intellectuals.
Therfore, the characteristic scores would reflect people who are slightly
below average in their physical abilities.  Turning that assumption around,
is seems equally logical that the human maximum would be just beyond the
maximum characteristic score that could be randomly generated.  If the best
SIZe score you can roll on the dice is 18, for example, it would seem to be
that the maximum score for a human being without pathology (gigantism, for
example) would be in the low 20s.-

  For the record, my disagreement is first of all that in CoC, STR+SIZ is
what makes actual strength - your calculations are really off by 50%.
-In the real world, SIZe has surprisingly little to do with STRength.
Marius Pilsudski, a routine contender for the title of the strongest man in
Poland, weighed 230 pounds in the last contest I saw him compete in, and he
was running with a 400 pound ship's anchor in his arms.  Marius was famous
for weighing less in every subsequent contest.  Pavel Tsatsouline, who was a
physical fitness coach for the Soviet special forces, teaches a weight
training program that develops great strength irrespective of the size of
the person involved.  Using Tsatsouline's methods, I've trained a 160 pound
kick boxer to bench press 310 pounds, and I've seen a little bit of a girl,
who could only have weighed 110 pounds soaking wet, deadlift 300 pounds.-

A useful stat for Jason would probably be 75 STR+SIZ total, from the
calculations.
-An important copnsideration is the dramatic needs of your story.  I feel
the characteristic scores I've come up with accurately reflect what I've
seen Michael do in the movies (as an aside, Jason Voorhees characteristic
scores, based on what he's done in the movies, would be about the same,
although slightly greater than Michael's for the later movies, like "Freddy
vs. Jason").  However, the point behind characters like Michael and Jason
and so forth is to have an implaccable enemy for the characters to contend
with.  Played within the Delta Green context, those PCs are going to bring
ludicrously destructive weapons to their side of the contest, unless the
Keeper is very strict (which I've found leads to a punch in the nose).  If
you've got players who not only want to, but can justify within the realism
if the game, using machine guns and home made bombs against Michael, Michael
needs a few points in his favor.  To duplicate the sense of the films, the
PCs have to be canny and heroic to overcome these foes.  I'm sure you'd
agree that anything which encourages players to think problems through, as
opposed to blazing away with firearms or slugging it out, is a good thing.-

Second of all that the system *is* designed around humans having 3-18.
Humans. Not scholars. Humans.
-A very important characteristic score is EDUcation.  A player rolling up a
new character can dice a score of 21 for EDUcation.  In the definiteion of
EDUcation on page 38 of the 5.5 edition of the rules, EDUcation is defined
as the "formal and factual knowledge possessed by the investigator, as well
as the number of years it took him or her to learn that material".  Why is
it that a "real" human can have an EDUcations core of 21, but not any other
characteristic scores over 18?  It is this discrepancy that forms the basis
of my conclusions.

Ultimately, the needs of an individual Keeper's game determine what
characterisrtic scores are practical and which ones aren't.  Sadly, the
games I have run require that my NPCs have a little extra "oompah" like
this.-

>So Michael Myers can lift between 14 - 15 Tons? I'll admit that I only ever
>saw one Halloween movie (IV? V?), but that still seems really excessive.

> >>>>>I guess so.  It's been a while since I came up with the stats, but
>I'd
>bet it all made sense in terms of my calculations at the time.

I seem to remember something similar making the rounds when the last Mars
probe overshot its landing point : )

75 is still ridiculous. If a serial slasher had the strength needed to lift
14 to 15 tons he wouldn't need to stalk through someone's house: he'd smash
his way through the walls, or throw bowling balls at people at the speed of
pitching pennies. Hell, he could probably pick up an oil tanker and throw it
at the house, and then wait for the survivors to crawl out, right to him.

I'd say give him a strength of 24 at the most. Now, you could probably give
him a really amazing stamina, given how often bullets don't seem to do the
job with these kinds of people. On the other hand, you could just say that
bullets only do one point of damage at most, and he can fall down 'dead' and
come back to life, fully healed, after a time.

J

_________________________________________________________________
Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy
patented spam control and more.  Get two months FREE!
http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa

Cannibalism crops up as a topic frequently enough here on the DGML for many
resgular visitors to be aware of the term 'long pig' for human fare.  Being
an inveterate rugby fan, in getting news online of the World Cup being
played currently in Australia, I came across the following article...

http://www.planet-rugby.com/TOURNAMENTS/World_Cup_2003/Tournament_News/story_322\
60.shtml

...which offers one possible origin for the term 'long pig'.  Pigs were a
major food animal in the diet of Polynesians, Melanesians, and
Micronesians - I remember the luau I went to in Hawaii fondly - so it does
seem natural that human meat would acquire a name derived from that porcine
staple.

On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 12:25:18PM -0700, Morrigan wrote:
>
> -I'll admit its difficult, because there aren't any bench marks the
> weay there are for STRength, SIZe, and EDUcation, but it does seem a
> reasonable assumption to make, to me at least.  The way that
> characteristic scores are generated under the CoC BRP rules produce
> the heroes of Lovecraft's stories, intentionally or otherwise.

You keep saying that. Yet you fail to impress upon me *why*, say,
Adolph Lepus really *should* have stats in the 30's to be "correct" in
the 3-18 BRP system CoC uses, where he already *is* correct.

> Lovecraft's heroes were not physical paragons - by his own admission
> they were mostly dreamy artist sorts or intellectuals.  Therfore,
> the characteristic scores would reflect people who are slightly
> below average in their physical abilities.

First of all, that assumption is flawed in itself. A man in his mid
twenties that has no illnesses, no severe under or overweight and that
has led a reasonable - if relaxed - lifestyle will not be slightly
below average in their physical abilities. More like slightly *above*
average. The 3-18 range encompasses *everyone*, not just mid twenties
males.

Did you look at the stats of the various Lovecraftian heroes? They're
hardly "row of 18" characters. They reflect pretty accurately well
fed, well tended young males with an intellectual bent, yet a not
entirely sedentary lifestyle.

Further, your basic thesis is flawed. Lovecraft did not design the
system, for one. Even if he did, he'd be a bit brighter than having
limited the model to only accurately represent his heroes, and not
their opposition, allies, or the very beings of the Mythos. The game
was not designed with a world of only scholars in mind.

A very simple way to test your theory would be to count the number of
physically oriented NPC's that have stats in their 30's. For example,
Galt and his goons would be excellent examples. They all have physical
stats in their 30's, don't they? No? Why not? Maybe the system is
designed so that humans really *are* 3-18?


> Turning that assumption around, is seems equally logical that the
> human maximum would be just beyond the maximum characteristic score
> that could be randomly generated.  If the best SIZe score you can
> roll on the dice is 18, for example, it would seem to be that the
> maximum score for a human being without pathology (gigantism, for
> example) would be in the low 20s.-

How does this support your assertion of 30+ stat scores?

>  For the record, my disagreement is first of all that in CoC, STR+SIZ is
> what makes actual strength - your calculations are really off by 50%.
> -In the real world, SIZe has surprisingly little to do with STRength.

That may be, but the CoC game system isn't the real world. It models
it. And it makes the assumption that SIZ + STR is what makes
your strength. Ignoring that will break the system bigtime - you used
the SIZ to calculate Damage Bonus, didn't you?

> A useful stat for Jason would probably be 75 STR+SIZ total, from the
> calculations.
> -An important copnsideration is the dramatic needs of your story.

And a 75 STR guy can do some pretty fricken insane things - he can rip
a shoggoth to pieces and wrestle down Star Spawns.

> (as an aside, Jason Voorhees characteristic scores, based on what
> he's done in the movies, would be about the same, although slightly
> greater than Michael's for the later movies, like "Freddy vs.
> Jason").

Jason, Michael, same difference. =P

> However, the point behind characters like Michael and Jason and so
> forth is to have an implaccable enemy for the characters to contend
> with.

Well, those stats to make him implaccable - as someone said, he'll be
throwing busses and houses and stuff at people. Heck, he can wrestle
on even terms with Nyarlathothep - the large form. And he will whup
Tsathoggua with one hand behind his back.

Who needs Great Old Ones when there's Michael ....

> I'm sure you'd agree that anything which encourages players to think
> problems through, as opposed to blazing away with firearms or
> slugging it out, is a good thing.-

Nope, I wouldn't. I don't approve of using *anything*. The end doesn't
justify the means, and besides, there are much simpler ways to make
players take a more reasonable course of action.

> Second of all that the system *is* designed around humans having 3-18.
> Humans. Not scholars. Humans.
> -A very important characteristic score is EDUcation.

That's not a physical score, not a 3-18 score, and really represents
amounts of years studied. You even quoted that part. It deliberately
is not the same way as the other stats.

> Ultimately, the needs of an individual Keeper's game determine what
> characterisrtic scores are practical and which ones aren't.  Sadly,
> the games I have run require that my NPCs have a little extra
> "oompah" like this.-

A little. Hmm. Your players routinely snipe Star Spawns or something?
But then, if you give them characteristics in the 30's, they would.

Perhaps you should keep the player characters in the 3-18 range, then
maybe you don't have to give Michael 75 STR, and it'll work anyway?

Jesper

As far as I remember, the name is solely derived from the fact that human
flesh tasts like Pork- thus Long Pig. Might be wrong, though.

Yrs Sincerely
Edward Parsons

"We took out our heavy revolvers (all of a sudden there were revolvers in
the dream) and joyfully killed the Gods."
- "Ragnarok" Jorge Luis Borges

"As far as I remember, the name is solely derived from the fact that human
flesh tasts like Pork- thus Long Pig. Might be wrong, though."

-I heard a story a while ago - read it in a book caled "The Flesh Eaters" -
about a fellow who wrote for the New York Times.  This guy was a bit of a
fringe sort anyway, and he found himself on good terms with an Amazonian
tribe that practiced occasional cannibalism (this all took place some time
in the 30s).  Determined to learn about the consumption of human meat, this
fellow obtained two cuts of meat from the next human who found himself on
the dinner table of this tribe -the equivalent of a steak and a small pot
roast".  the reporter went to great pains not to learn anything about the
person he was going to eat, and cooked up the emat.  He describes it as
tasting like veal - that is, like tender beef.-

Greetings,

I've just finished converting my Delta Green campaign to Call of
Cthulhu d20 (with some skills, equipment and feats imported from
Spycraft). During the conversion, I looked around for some CoC d20
lists, but didn't find any with more than five people on it. Anyone
know of one?

Ken Newquist

On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:46:06 -0500
   Ken Newquist <knewquist@...> wrote:
>Greetings,
>

No, Mr. Newquist. I know of no such list.

I will now give way to my utter antipathy for all things
d20.

>I've just finished converting my Delta Green campaign to
>Call of
>Cthulhu d20 (with some skills, equipment and feats
>imported from

What foul creature possessed you and made this happen?
Better to never game again than to pick up Tweet's Heresy.

Jay Dugger     :     Til Eulenspiegel
http://www.owlmirror.net/~duggerj
d20 is not a necessary evil; it is unnecessary.

On Sunday, November 2, 2003, at 07:52 PM, JAY DUGGER wrote:

> No, Mr. Newquist. I know of no such list.

Figured as much.

> I will now give way to my utter antipathy for all things
> d20.

Thus the reason I was looking for a d20 list.

> What foul creature possessed you and made this happen?
> Better to never game again than to pick up Tweet's Heresy.

There are several of them, but I'm not looking to debate the merits of
d20 vs. conventional CoC.

Ken

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Newquist" <knewquist@...>

> > What foul creature possessed you and made this happen?
> > Better to never game again than to pick up Tweet's Heresy.
>
> There are several of them, but I'm not looking to debate the merits of
> d20 vs. conventional CoC.

  Oh, please do. We're between tempests in this teacup and could use another
subject to get irrational over. Hey, I know - why doesn't everyone start
with a complaint about the mechanics and "reality" of combat rules, which
should bring some fondlers out of their bunkers. Then everyone can line up
on their side of the "debate" and fling, uh, well-thought-out-arguments at
each other? GURPS vs. AD&D! Are you ready to ruuuuumble?

  Remember, always lead with an insult, and be sure to question the
intelligence of anyone with differing views.

  Uh, Ken? You are already getting behind with this unfortunate stance of
asking questions with the expectation of information in return. Statements
man! Stake out a claim to some intellectual territory and defy all comers.
Work up some scorn until it drips. Remember at all times that anyone who
disagrees with you is a moron. Also, they have no taste. And they smell.

Mark McFadden
  Wait dammit! My popcorn isn't ready.
  [Final Jeopardy theme]
  ding!

  OK, go! Kumite y'all. (munch munch munch)

On Sunday, November 2, 2003, at 08:58 PM, Mark McFadden wrote:

>  Remember, always lead with an insult, and be sure to question the
> intelligence of anyone with differing views.

And, of course, don't forget to go charging after the tangential
windmill of your choice, including -- but not limited to -- the quality
of the U.S. education system, merits of various political systems, and,
of course, the superiority of Macs vs. Wintel vs Linux machines.

> Uh, Ken? You are already getting behind with this unfortunate stance of
> asking questions with the expectation of information in return.
> Statements
> man! Stake out a claim to some intellectual territory and defy all
> comers.
> Work up some scorn until it drips. Remember at all times that anyone
> who
> disagrees with you is a moron. Also, they have no taste. And they
> smell.

Damn. Guess I'll have try harder next time...

Ken

>   Ken Newquist <knewquist@...> wrote:
> >Greetings,
> >
>
>No, Mr. Newquist. I know of no such list.
>
>I will now give way to my utter antipathy for all things
>d20.

(: P ppppbBBBBBBBBBBBBBTTTT

D20 Call of Cthulhu is one of the best gaming books I've read in a long
time. D20 itself isn't my prefered method of madness, but the book itself is
VERY well done, with my only substantial complaint being that there's not as
many critters in it as I'd like.

And let's not forget that the Rev. Tynes is partially responsible for it,
shall we? HmmMMMM? HMMMM? *poke poke*

J

_________________________________________________________________
Cheer a special someone with a fun Halloween eCard from American Greetings!
Go to  http://www.msn.americangreetings.com/index_msn.pd?source=msne134

At 07:46 PM 11/2/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>I've just finished converting my Delta Green campaign to Call of
>Cthulhu d20 (with some skills, equipment and feats imported from
>Spycraft). During the conversion, I looked around for some CoC d20
>lists, but didn't find any with more than five people on it. Anyone
>know of one?
>
>Ken Newquist

Aside from the CoC section of Wizard's message boards, I don't know of any.


Christopher Smith Adair

ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* schrieb:

> D20 Call of Cthulhu is one of the best gaming books I've read in a long
> time. D20 itself isn't my prefered method of madness, but the book itself is
> VERY well done,


Indeed.
And I wouldn't have any problem to see CoC-D20 specific topics being discussed
on DGML.

eckhard

Theres also the Cthulhu International YahooGroup and Website.

Cthulhu International
http://www.geocities.com/nicodemis_quick/

CI deals with BRP and D20.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
Commander Julian Bishop                                                  I
Commander of the Arkham GROUP                                    I
http://www.geocities.com/nicodemis_quick/Delta_Green/      I
List Owner, Arkham GROUP                                              I
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Arkham-GROUP/                 I
List Owner, Delta_Green                                                    I
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Delta_Green                        I
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mark McFadden schrieb:

>  I like the Wiki idea, but I don't know if I would want it to *replace* the
> Challenge. I'd like to hang on to some shred of connection to HPL, and
> perhaps start a tradition inspired from the original one-shot.


Same here. The Challenge in its traditional old-fashioned way just has a certain
charm.

eckhard

On Nov 1, 2003, at 1:21 PM, Jay Dugger wrote:

> --- In dglist@yahoogroups.com, Brett Dixon <balance@t...> wrote:
>> Add-on to the Wiki discussion:
>> The following article discusses a Wiki version that supports more
>> 'moderation' allowing bad sections to be rated as such and replaced...
>> Might be useful.
> TEASE!
> Do you forget to attach, quote or reference the article?
> Is it Twiki?

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/10/30/
1819241&mode=thread&tid=126&tid=95

Basically, it's a system that allows changes to be voted upon... I'd
dig further to summarize, but my brain is trying to spin down to power
save mode at the moment after a long, but fun, weekend.

On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 03:13 AM, EHuelshoff@... wrote:

> Indeed. And I wouldn't have any problem to see CoC-D20 specific topics
> being discussed
> on DGML.

My approach to warring gaming systems has always been to check out what
other people post, and if I like it, I incorporate it into my rules of
choice. And if I don't, well, I just leave the carcass where it fell.
We all have different reasons for using the systems that we use, and as
long as they work for each of us, who cares? Of course, this may be an
unduly reasonable attitude, but generally speaking, I prefer the
reserve the venom, spite and calculated evil for my players.

I'll post some of my d20 specific information to the list later. If
people can't handle it, then so be it -- I'll just start-up a d20 CoC
Yahoo Group and post there.

Ken

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:42:30 -0500
   Ken Newquist <knewquist@...> wrote:
>
>On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 03:13 AM,
>EHuelshoff@... wrote:
>
>> Indeed. And I wouldn't have any problem to see CoC-D20
>>specific topics
>> being discussed
>> on DGML.
>

For the record, neither would I. Please remember: I _did_
answer your question first, and I warned the readers of my
post that its remainder reflected my bias.

>My approach to warring gaming systems has always been to
>check out what
>other people post, and if I like it, I incorporate it
>into my rules of
>choice. And if I don't, well, I just leave the carcass
>where it fell.

This common practice marks one of the reasons I hold such
a low opinion of d20. I'll send anyone who cares a link
for posts describing why I dislike d20. (I expect zero
requests.)

>We all have different reasons for using the systems that
>we use, and as
>long as they work for each of us, who cares?

See above. In general, system matters.

>I'll post some of my d20 specific information to the list
>later. If

Please do.

>people can't handle it, then so be it -- I'll just
>start-up a d20 CoC
>Yahoo Group and post there.
>

No need for that, although it remains an option. Everyone
here should know how to press delete and how to filter
their email.


Jay Dugger     :     Til Eulenspiegel
http://www.owlmirror.net/~duggerj
Sometimes delete serves best.

Ken Newquist schrieb:

>
> My approach to warring gaming systems has always been to check out what
> other people post, and if I like it, I incorporate it into my rules of
> choice. And if I don't, well, I just leave the carcass where it fell.
> We all have different reasons for using the systems that we use, and as
> long as they work for each of us, who cares? Of course, this may be an
> unduly reasonable attitude, but generally speaking, I prefer the
> reserve the venom, spite and calculated evil for my players.


>From my point of view - and it seems Jay's as well - just feel free to post.
Even though I do prefer BRP or GURPS I think that D20 has its place and should
have its place in gaming and especially in gaming CoC/DG! If D20CoC is the way
to get fresh players and therefore also fresh ideas to DGML, I am happy about
it.


eckhard

------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:07:56 -0500, "JAY DUGGER" <duggerj1@...> wrote:

> This common practice marks one of the reasons I hold such
> a low opinion of d20. I'll send anyone who cares a link
> for posts describing why I dislike d20. (I expect zero
> requests.) ... See above. In general, system matters.

Almost a subject I'd be interested in discussing ... if I hadn't already grown
exhausted it during the 1E vs. 3E "the rules define the setting" debates on
Greytalk.

> No need for that, although it remains an option. Everyone
> here should know how to press delete and how to filter
> their email.

Yes, of course. Kill filters are always an option, but there's a point where the
noise-to-content ratio grows too great, and it's easier (and more productive) to
move the conversation elsewhere. I hope that won't be the case, but if so, I
don't have a problem on it. I'd rather focus on improving my campaign than
getting into d20 debates.

Ken

Everyone,

I'm trying to find some information on what encrypted cell phones are available,
including those for the average user, high-end businesses, governmental agencies
and the military.

One of the characters in my campaign has a background in encrtyption, and the
player's looking for encrypted cell phones to mess with the bad guys. The
players are
still neophytes (they still think DG is a sanction operation) so they don't have
any real
clue about what their up against.

So if they want their encryption, I'm willing to give it them, if only so that
their
opponents can slice through it like so much rancid butter.

Anyway, anyone have any leads on where I can find information on this? I tried a
search on the Web, but most of the info I found on Google is several years old
and
not very informative. I tried the DGML archives (and DGML back-up) but didn't
find
anything.

Ken

From: "ialdaloboth *genzundheit!*" <ialdaloboth@...>



> > And let's not forget that the Rev. Tynes is partially responsible for
it,
> shall we? HmmMMMM? HMMMM? *poke poke*

Tynes has a broad back, and is quite a substantial beast of burden, but even
ATLAS (Not Atlas Games) couldn't carry the world on his shoulders if it was
made of slimy shit. I've played over 50 different roleplaying game systems
in my day, including a couple of my own (and friends) design; everything
from Skyrealms of Jorune to Marvel Superheroes (Classic) from Talislanta to
Twilight 2000 and from GURPS and BESM to Rolemaster. And in my experience,
D&D ranks close to the bottom when it comes to game systems. Right above
monstrosities like Arduin Grimoire and that game where you had to cut off
your fingers and carve dice from your own flesh to hit in combat.

The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins
Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Cæptus : E Pluribus Unum
______________________________________________________________________
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack

Let your Agents have this:

http://www.motorola.com/LMPS/RNSG/federal/products/secure_telecom/CipherTAC.html

Or this:

http://www.motorola.com/LMPS/RNSG/federal/products/secure_telecom/CipherTAC_2000\
.html

Seems like almost the same thing, but the CipherTAC2000 also advertises STU III
capability, which is a strong selling point to DoD customers.

-Rus

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com

From: "Kenneth Newquist" <knewquist@...>



> I'm trying to find some information on what encrypted cell phones are
available,
> including those for the average user, high-end businesses, governmental
agencies
> and the military.

Delta Green uses it's own proprietary system of international calling cards
and private routers to turn ANY land line into a secure system. This will
not prevent Majestic-12 from intercepting cellular traffic to and from a
cellphone without a Digital Encryption Chip of some sort.  Some government
agencies will issue secure phones to their agents, but these calls might be
logged through a system like ECHELON or CARNIVORE, or they might only be
logged if counter-intelligence suspects the caller (a reasonable assumption
if they are conducting Delta Green operations with the usual player
incompetance).

Supposedly secure cellular encryption is available from any
telecommunications company. The government does not have a standard secure
cellular communications system, but rather has a mishmash of various
government contracts from all manner of agencies and contractors. For an
example of this, I suggest you call your local telecommunications
representatives and ask for pricing information for secure communications.
This will probably get you placed on some sort of "kooks" list, or upgrade
your current kook rating.

The end result in the game will be you spend a lot of money, and no one but
Majestic-12 or telepaths will be able to listen in on your calls, and they
will have to use the resources of the Crystal Matrix to break the encryption
in realtime, or use the resources of the NSA to break the encryption with
significant delay.

Of course, some groups (like the Genyosha or Karotechia) are clever, and
might pull a ninja operation to replace the DEC in the agent's phones with
one of their own design... which would function flawlessly except for the
frequency hopping backdoor allowing their interception equipment to listen
in. This has it's own problems, leaving behind physical evidence of
eavesdropping integrated circuit design could potentially lead to
manufacturers connected to the organization and cause no end of trouble.

All the technology in the world is probably less secure than human
intelligence methods such as codewords or elaborate book codes, or just
plain shutting up. Of course, this is less than convienent, and convienence
will always take precedence over safety.

The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins
Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Cæptus : E Pluribus Unum
______________________________________________________________________
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack

Agent Farnham was also nice enough to post this in the files section:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dglist/files/topsec.pdf




  --- On Mon 11/03, rus < rus@... > wrote:
From: rus

Let your Agents have this:
http://www.motorola.com/LMPS/RNSG/federal/products/secure_telecom/CipherTAC.html
Or this:
http://www.motorola.com/LMPS/RNSG/federal/products/secure_telecom/CipherTAC_2000\
.html

Seems like almost the same thing, but the CipherTAC2000 also advertises STU III
capability, which is a strong selling point to DoD customers.

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com