It is not limited to Eletronics, As Herry will not usan autmatic hand gun
because it might jam on him. I think that would have to dowith how complcated
the object is,

--- In dfrpg-chat@yahoogroups.com, polarglen@... wrote:
>
>
> Makes sense to me.  But, there has to be some control by the practitioner. 
For example, with so many things produced more by robot than by humans, wouldn't
it follow that all a powerful practitioner would have to do would be to walk
outside and watch traffic sputter to a halt.
>
>
>
> Harry has little to no technology in his apartment because of the magic
inside, but what about those who live above him?  Why aren't they affected? 
Unless it has something to do with the materials the building is made from --
just a thought that popped into my head as I was typing this.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BJ <byronic1@...>
> To: dfrpg-chat@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, Oct 15, 2009 3:33 pm
> Subject: [dfrpg-chat] Re: Dresden Magic that damages (?) technology?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Then why would it only affect technology that has an electronic base
>
> Ok This line got me thinking and my view on magic vs Tech, it that the more
you remove the human factore from the creation of the object the more Magic can
afet it. anf it is stated that Dresdens car breaks down all the time, and it was
a car designed in the 30's,
> So I look at it like this , with the industratl age and things started being
made by macines less of the human spirt was imbued to the object made, making it
more vonerable to the powers of magic around it.
> The more things are made by robots, the more removed it is from the human
element.
>
> I hope this makes sence to some one.
>

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 6:17 AM, <polarglen@...> wrote:
> Harry has little to no technology in his apartment because of the magic
inside, but what about those who live above him?  Why aren't they affected? 
Unless it has something to do with the materials the building is made from --
just a thought that popped into my head as I was typing this.

It probably has to do with the threshold. The apartment above him is
not part of the same magical space, it's "behind" someone else's
threshold, so it's safe (most of the time).

--
Daniel McSorley

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

I think in Harry's apartment, it's the threshold that prevents his jinxing from
affecting the other apartments -- it's not a matter of proximity in that case.

--- In dfrpg-chat@yahoogroups.com, Marshall Smith <samldanach@...> wrote:
>
> But, then why would Harry always be frying Murphy's computer?
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 6:21 AM, Darryl Trainor <dtrainor@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 11:17 AM, <polarglen@... <polarglen%40aol.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Harry has little to no technology in his apartment because of the magic
> > inside, but what about those who live
> > > above him?  Why aren't they affected?  Unless it has something to do with
> > the materials the building is made
> > > from -- just a thought that popped into my head as I was typing this.
> >
> > I would be inclined to say it is because of the ownership. I own this
> > thing. It has a connection to me, and to my energy. This makes it more
> > susceptible to those energy surges.
> >
> > I can still affect other technology, but I have to make a conscious
> > effort to do so .. to make that connection to the technology that will
> > allow the gremlins to get to work on it. With my own things, that
> > connection is already established.
> >
> > Does that make any kind of sense?
> >
> > D.
> >
> > --
> > "Honor is the highest thing in the Universe; it is the power on which
> > all things depend; it is the light by which all of life is guided.
> > Honor the highest within yourself, for it too is the power on which
> > all things depend and the light by which all life is guided."
> > --Marcus Aurelius (stoicism)-121- 180A.D.
> >
> >
>

In the books, Harry is not able to control his impact on technology. The
elevator MAY work or may not. He doesn't go to the hospital as he might blow out
life support machines, etc.

Peter Hildreth
(surprised I am suddenly getting email from the group since I haven't gotten any
for months)

--- In dfrpg-chat@yahoogroups.com, Darryl Trainor <dtrainor@...> wrote:
>
> I can still affect other technology, but I have to make a conscious
> effort to do so .. to make that connection to the technology that will
> allow the gremlins to get to work on it. With my own things, that
> connection is already established.
>
> Does that make any kind of sense?
>
> D.
>
> --
> "Honor is the highest thing in the Universe; it is the power on which
> all things depend; it is the light by which all of life is guided.
> Honor the highest within yourself, for it too is the power on which
> all things depend and the light by which all life is guided."
> --Marcus Aurelius (stoicism)-121- 180A.D.
>

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 11:17 AM, <polarglen@...> wrote:

> Harry has little to no technology in his apartment because of the magic
inside, but what about those who live
> above him?  Why aren't they affected?  Unless it has something to do with the
materials the building is made
> from -- just a thought that popped into my head as I was typing this.

I would be inclined to say it is because of the ownership. I own this
thing. It has a connection to me, and to my energy. This makes it more
susceptible to those energy surges.

I can still affect other technology, but I have to make a conscious
effort to do so .. to make that connection to the technology that will
allow the gremlins to get to work on it. With my own things, that
connection is already established.

Does that make any kind of sense?

D.

--
"Honor is the highest thing in the Universe; it is the power on which
all things depend; it is the light by which all of life is guided.
Honor the highest within yourself, for it too is the power on which
all things depend and the light by which all life is guided."
--Marcus Aurelius (stoicism)-121- 180A.D.

Then why would it only affect technology that has an electronic base

Ok This line got me thinking and my view on magic vs Tech, it that the more you
remove the human factore from the creation of the object the more Magic can afet
it. anf it is stated that Dresdens car breaks down all the time, and it was a
car designed in the 30's,
So I look at it like this , with the industratl age and things started being
made by macines less of the human spirt was imbued to the object made, making it
more vonerable to the powers of magic around it.
The more things are made by robots, the more removed it is from the human
element.

I hope this makes sence to some one.

The Dresden Files RPG website has gotten a total reboot.  Check out its
new form at http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/

We've also set up so that the new blog will feed into Twitter:
http://twitter.com/dresdenfiles

In truth, we've been bad about updating our mailing lists, and would
strongly recommend that folks hook into the new website's RSS feed
and/or twitter to be absolutely sure you're staying on top of the latest. :)

Thanks for keeping the faith, everyone!

The DFRPG Team
www.dresdenfilesrpg.com

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Ryan Adams <jamesryanadams@...> wrote:
> lol, what WOULD Henry Cornelius Agrippa (or Donald Michael Craig for that
> matter) bring to this discussion?<

Agrippa doesn't say much these days, being dead and all...
Don Kraig would probably ask you to spell his name right.
</joke>

I'd look around on the web for a more modern idea of how traditional
grimoiric magic is being combined with technology to great effect. I'd
start with Jake Stratton-Kent, Aaron Leitch and some cat who goes by
the handle of Moloch 969... interesting stuff, especially when they
start navel-gazing and trying to explain how it works.

But we're talking about a game of a different stripe, no? ;)

On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Jerry Dunsmore <JLDunsmore@...> wrote:
> Isn't magic a combination of some "Talent" and a mage's will? If so could
> the effect of magic on technology be based on the belief's of the mage? A
> firearm from today seen by someone 100 years ago would seem like magic. A
> computer hundred years from now will seem like magic. This fits with the
> idea that older technology is more 'concrete'. The majority of the world's
> belief paradigm affects how magic truly works or doesn't. So its a
> combination of all the world's reality paradigm, all those that wield magic
> and a mage's own belief in magic. What works for one mage may not work for
> another. Harry even says that in one book talking while warding a building
> using blue modeling clay. Saying that blue was how he learned it, or some
> such. So now we could have a mage that has an unmovable belief in
> technology. His workstation is his laboratory, his spells are programs, his
> spell books are pdas and his wand is a light pen. He makes nanite colonies
> suspended in fluid by combinding metal filings, mathematical equations,
> binary programming and tachyon crystals that give him a superhuman strength
> for a short while. Tada! Your techno mage. Use normal technology with
> something 'beyond' like tachyon crystals. Now I know this has never shown up
> in Harry Dresden, but I think it possible. Then you have a traditional mage
> and a techno mage working side by side. The Traditional mage's stuff stops
> working if only the Techno mage is there and vice versa.. in a battle
> between them.. it becomes.. basically a battle of wills.<

Which is why I gave the mechanics suggestion of it being a
drawback/flaw. Granted, maybe it's one that pairs with taking a
sorcery stunt and the "exception" is the technomage... but it seems to
be best handled as a flaw that adds negative aspects or limits the
number of dice that can be used for tricky dealings with tech or maybe
even has the cell phone blow up on a -4.

But as to coming up with an explanation, I wouldn't even bother - most
GMs will come with their own that makes sense to them. If they really
need an explanation in black and white,  they're probably rules
lawyers and won't like the Fudgey goodness to begin with.

That's just me while wearing my game designer hat. Ask me another time
while I'm wearing my ceremonial magician hat and I might have a
different focus, y'know...

I would agree that the effects on the game is paramount to most of the gamers out there.  But, some of us are just as interested in the philosophy and science for storylines.  Please do not dismiss the theory behind game mechanics because that can drive the story and allow for expanding the universe. Michael W. Kilduff A wink, a smile, and a whole lot more!  --- On Sun, 10/26/08, Marshall Smith <samldanach@gmail.com> wrote: From: Marshall Smith <samldanach@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [dfrpg-chat] Dresden Magic that damages (?) technology? To: dfrpg-chat@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 26, 2008, 2:09 PM That's certainly Butters' opinion. However, for me at least, it doesn't entirely work. For one thing, an EMP pulse is just not likely to break, say, a refrigerator. It's not likely to cause some of the telephone malfunctions Harry routinely experiences. It would have to be an EMP field of a very different nature from what we commonly experience. Which, ultimately, is just saying, "It's magic, it does that.". And, it may be just fine to define the effects without being able to define the causes. For an RPG, the important questions are: What does it do? Can I stop/control it? Does it always happen, happen on a statistically measurable (I.e., controlle by a dice roll) basis, or happen as a result of known triggers? If I tweak the laws of physics, what happens to the effect? Answering those questions are a lot more critical thqan answering specific questions about the science and philosophy behind it. On 10/10/08, James Kent <slvrdragon13@ comcast.net> wrote: > My Personal Opinion based off of a conversation between Butters and Harry is > more like an Aura that acts similar to an Electromagnetic field that > disrupts more modern technology like an EMP pulse. > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 10/24/2008 at 2:46 PM Keith Boyle wrote: > "tonpa123" <tonpa123@.. .> wrote: >> I have just starting to read the Dresden stuff so this kind of >> buzzle to me. How does the break up of technology work in books >> and game? There was a note in wikipedia, taht if Dresden would >> have used cellphone himself it would have broken up, what it >> didn't do in the Tv episode.< > > 0 - Wikipedia? As a source? Pardon me while clean the coffee off my > monitor... > > 1 - Personally, from the books I believe that Butcher is trying to > convey some of the old "aura" of magicians and witches being in > opposition to "civilization. " What better sign of civilization than > our technology? > > 2 - Gamewise, I feel that having it as a drawback/flaw is much better > than having it as a "universal" effect of magic. Maybe it takes other > forms based on magical specialties - magicians who use finding spells > too much have their car keys go missing for hours on end until they > realize that they're in hand, coffee that freezes over after throwing > fireballs, yadda yadda yadda. Fluff text explaining that the fabric of > the universe is balancing itself removes the need for GM > embarassment. .. metagame - it's a handy tool for suggesting to a > player that maybe they're relying on rolls too much instead of > roleplaying situations out. > > YMMV. > > > > > -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google. com

That's certainly Butters' opinion.  However, for me at least, it
doesn't entirely work.  For one thing, an EMP pulse is just not likely
to break, say, a refrigerator.  It's not likely to cause some of the
telephone malfunctions Harry routinely experiences.  It would have to
be an EMP field of a very different nature from what we commonly
experience.  Which, ultimately, is just saying, "It's magic, it does
that.".

And, it may be just fine to define the effects without being able to
define the causes.  For an RPG, the important questions are:  What
does it do?  Can I stop/control it?  Does it always happen, happen on
a statistically measurable (I.e., controlle by a dice roll) basis, or
happen as a result of known triggers?  If I tweak the laws of physics,
what happens to the effect?  Answering those questions are a lot more
critical thqan answering specific questions about the science and
philosophy behind it.





On 10/10/08, James Kent <slvrdragon13@...> wrote:
> My Personal Opinion based off of a conversation between Butters and Harry is
> more like an Aura that acts similar to an Electromagnetic field that
> disrupts more modern technology like an EMP pulse.
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
> On 10/24/2008 at 2:46 PM Keith Boyle wrote:
> "tonpa123" <tonpa123@...> wrote:
>> I have just starting to read the Dresden stuff so this kind of
>> buzzle to me. How does the break up of technology work in books
>> and game? There was a note in wikipedia, taht if Dresden would
>> have used cellphone himself it would have broken up, what it
>> didn't do in the Tv episode.<
>
> 0 - Wikipedia? As a source? Pardon me while clean the coffee off my
> monitor...
>
> 1 - Personally, from the books I believe that Butcher is trying to
> convey some of the old "aura" of magicians and witches being in
> opposition to "civilization." What better sign of civilization than
> our technology?
>
> 2 - Gamewise, I feel that having it as a drawback/flaw is much better
> than having it as a "universal" effect of magic. Maybe it takes other
> forms based on magical specialties - magicians who use finding spells
> too much have their car keys go missing for hours on end until they
> realize that they're in hand, coffee that freezes over after throwing
> fireballs, yadda yadda yadda. Fluff text explaining that the fabric of
> the universe is balancing itself removes the need for GM
> embarassment... metagame - it's a handy tool for suggesting to a
> player that maybe they're relying on rolls too much instead of
> roleplaying situations out.
>
> YMMV.
>
>
>
>
>

--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com

"tonpa123" <tonpa123@...> wrote:
> I have just starting to read the Dresden stuff so this kind of
> buzzle to me. How does the break up of technology work in books
> and game? There was a note in wikipedia, taht if Dresden would
> have used cellphone himself it would have broken up, what it
> didn't do in the Tv episode.<

0 - Wikipedia? As a source? Pardon me while clean the coffee off my
monitor...

1 - Personally, from the books I believe that Butcher is trying to
convey some of the old "aura" of magicians and witches being in
opposition to "civilization." What better sign of civilization than
our technology?

2 - Gamewise, I feel that having it as a drawback/flaw is much better
than having it as a "universal" effect of magic. Maybe it takes other
forms based on magical specialties - magicians who use finding spells
too much have their car keys go missing for hours on end until they
realize that they're in hand, coffee that freezes over after throwing
fireballs, yadda yadda yadda. Fluff text explaining that the fabric of
the universe is balancing itself removes the need for GM
embarassment... metagame - it's a handy tool for suggesting to a
player that maybe they're relying on rolls too much instead of
roleplaying situations out.

YMMV.

"tonpa123" <tonpa123@...> wrote:
> I have just starting to read the Dresden stuff so this kind of
> buzzle to me. How does the break up of technology work in books
> and game? There was a note in wikipedia, taht if Dresden would
> have used cellphone himself it would have broken up, what it
> didn't do in the Tv episode.<

0 - Wikipedia? As a source? Pardon me while clean the coffee off my
monitor...

1 - Personally, from the books I believe that Butcher is trying to
convey some of the old "aura" of magicians and witches being in
opposition to "civilization." What better sign of civilization than
our technology?

2 - Gamewise, I feel that having it as a drawback/flaw is much better
than having it as a "universal" effect of magic. Maybe it takes other
forms based on magical specialties - magicians who use finding spells
too much have their car keys go missing for hours on end until they
realize that they're in hand, coffee that freezes over after throwing
fireballs, yadda yadda yadda. Fluff text explaining that the fabric of
the universe is balancing itself removes the need for GM
embarassment... metagame - it's a handy tool for suggesting to a
player that maybe they're relying on rolls too much instead of
roleplaying situations out.

YMMV.