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Why the apparent preference for the one move advantage in chess?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #2818 of 2833 |
Re: [Chess Variants] Re: Why the apparent preference for the one move advantage in chess?


What he said... ;-)

On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Jerementality wrote:

> Definitely. I would play black against 1. f3, 1. g4, possibly also the ones
> you mention.
>
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:28 PM, David <vipassana8123@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Interesting. But I wonder if there is any move that is so horrid that
>> would make the other player choose to take black and proceed?
>>
>> For example, even a terrible move such as a3 or h3 could potentially
>> come into play in defense at a later stage in the game.
>>
>> --- In chessvariants@yahoogroups.com <chessvariants%40yahoogroups.com>,
>> John Kipling Lewis <jklewis@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The easier solution has been in many tournaments for other games for
>>> years.
>>>
>>> Player 1 makes any move as white.
>>> Player 2 may now decide to play as white or black.
>>>
>>> If Player 1 makes a move that is too good, then Player 2 will take
>> white.
>>> If Player 1 makes a move that is horrid, then Player 2 will take
>> black.
>>> Ideally Player 1 makes a neutral move, then the game is even to start.
>>>
>>> In all three cases, the first move advantage is removed.
>>>
>>> John -
>>>
>>> On Sat, 20 Jun 2009, David wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are you referring to the one move advantage white has in chess? If
>> so,
>>>> I have 'solved' this problem with:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.d-chess.com/
>>>>
>>>> In a nutshell:
>>>> Random back row set-ups, asymmetrical, slight advantage to one side
>>>>
>>>> One side (by coin toss) chooses which side to play
>>>> Other side gets to move first
>>>>
>>>> Thereby equalizing the game; no advantage to moving first
>>>>
>>>> The first may be by white and may be by black, depending upon the
>>>> set-ups and who chooses which side, etc.
>>>>
>>>> David S.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In chessvariants@yahoogroups.com <chessvariants%40yahoogroups.com>,
>> Jerementality chessvariants@
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Does it reflect a cultural value for dominance and parasitism over
>>>>> mutualism? For chaos and asymmetry? Over predictability and
>> "reason"?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:56 am

neoliminal
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Message #2818 of 2833 |
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Does it reflect a cultural value for dominance and parasitism over mutualism? For chaos and asymmetry? Over predictability and "reason"? [Non-text portions of...
Jerementality
zugzwangingz...
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Jun 19, 2009
12:13 pm

I realize I'm making three or five separate discussions and lumping them altogether with controversial implications. ... [Non-text portions of this message...
Jerementality
zugzwangingz...
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Jun 19, 2009
12:14 pm

I think there wasn't/isn't a preference for one move advantage. The idea of simultaneous movement is a fairly recent game mechanic. Chess, in particular, is...
John Kipling Lewis
neoliminal
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Jun 19, 2009
2:17 pm

Yes and no. John, I may agree with you that given more historic time, the apparent preference will erase because multimove variants are relatively novel ...
Jerementality
zugzwangingz...
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Jun 21, 2009
1:08 pm

Yes, that was me. I have invented, but not been happy with, simultaneous chess. I have hidden the problem in other variants I created. For example I have...
John Kipling Lewis
neoliminal
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Jun 21, 2009
3:43 pm

Are you referring to the one move advantage white has in chess? If so, I have 'solved' this problem with: http://www.d-chess.com/ In a nutshell: Random back...
David
vipassana8123
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Jun 23, 2009
10:10 pm

The easier solution has been in many tournaments for other games for years. Player 1 makes any move as white. Player 2 may now decide to play as white or...
John Kipling Lewis
neoliminal
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Jun 23, 2009
10:14 pm

Interesting. But I wonder if there is any move that is so horrid that would make the other player choose to take black and proceed? For example, even a...
David
vipassana8123
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Jun 29, 2009
7:53 pm

Definitely. I would play black against 1. f3, 1. g4, possibly also the ones you mention. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]...
Jerementality
zugzwangingz...
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Jun 29, 2009
10:16 pm

What he said... ;-)...
John Kipling Lewis
neoliminal
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Jun 30, 2009
11:56 am

I'd take you up on that offering. You can play as white and have a3. The other horrid move: f3...
John Kipling Lewis
neoliminal
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Jun 30, 2009
11:55 am

There are many possible solutions to the problem but the psychology of a chessplayer appears to reflect that of a individuals who seem to prefer to follow...
Jerementality
zugzwangingz...
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Jun 23, 2009
11:18 pm

I have to disagree with the idea that the usual schemes, or even many unusual ones (please see below for examples recently posted) actually eliminate the first...
joejoyce3
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Jun 24, 2009
3:45 am

Of course, it would be no point, for grandmasters, to devote themselves to orthochess if there were no first move advantage. The game would have been even more...
Mats Winther
mawin_se
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Jun 24, 2009
6:38 am

Mats Winther <mwi9@...> wrote: "Of course, it would be no point, for grandmasters, to devote themselves to orthochess if there were no first move...
Jerementality
zugzwangingz...
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Jun 24, 2009
8:51 am

Jeremy, you're right, I sidetracked on discussing the elimination of the first-move advantage [or disadvantage], by answering other's responses directly rather...
joejoyce3
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Jun 25, 2009
3:27 am

I like what you said here about opening moves in some variants being without regard to what the other player was moving. It would be interesting to see a...
John Kipling Lewis
neoliminal
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Jun 25, 2009
1:50 pm

A case in point is Burmese Chess where pieces are dropped, also on friendly pawns, which are immediately relocated. This means that the variant is...
Mats Winther
mawin_se
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Jun 25, 2009
6:22 pm

In Simplified Chess, a variant designed to remove some of the kruft from Standard Chess, I've found that the first move advantage is greatly reduced but for an...
John Kipling Lewis
neoliminal
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Jun 24, 2009
2:21 pm
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