> All right! My first suggestion if you want to play 6D, and you have
> more time than money available, save up for an extra tank of gas,
> make a U-turn and think New Mexico instead of Mississippi. The
> penetration is better, the rules are better (about half the games
have
> late surrender which is worth about as much as a half deck extra
> penetration) and being this is off the beaten path for counters there
> will be less heat, especially on you. There are about a dozen good
> games in the Santa Fe / Albuquerque area.
>


Great, I'll keep New Mexico in mind.
But with the way gas is going I may have to double the bank roll.
(I want to make sure I get home too) :)

Jerjoy heres the link to the sight that gives the 1000% bonus this
week only

https://secure.gamesgrid.com/go_gamesgrid.php?id=bluff" target="_blank

  Use bonus code: bluff
I made my deposit cleared the bonus and withdrew my money, no
problems. If you refer friends they give you 33% of their rake for
life.They seem to have a lot of loose players. If this link dosnt work
visit http://www.pokerjoke.blogspot.com and the banner is posted there.

A bit more useful content next time please John. I like to give
people the benefit of the doubt but most view this sort of thing as
spam.
Useful content will also help you get referrals.

John May

CCCafe Lord of the universe

--- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, "johnluckywin"
<johncunningham835@m...> wrote:
>
> Jerjoy heres the link to the sight that gives the 1000% bonus this
> week only
>
> https://secure.gamesgrid.com/go_gamesgrid.php?id=bluff"
target="_blank
>
>  Use bonus code: bluff
> I made my deposit cleared the bonus and withdrew my money, no
> problems. If you refer friends they give you 33% of their rake for
> life.They seem to have a lot of loose players. If this link dosnt
work
> visit http://www.pokerjoke.blogspot.com and the banner is posted
there.
>

Hi,

I was curious to know. Shouldnt the odds of a deck being positive or
negative be 50/50... completely up to chance.

i ask this because, i tend to experience negative decks far more than
I do positive decks.

Just curious if anyone has done the math on this, as certainly a 1 to
a 5 (which only has 4 cards to it) vs a 1 to a 10 (which has 6), times
whatever number of decks, would explain this. Though, balanced counts
should fare well.

They don't seem to ever.

It just can't be the phenomina of pain seeming to last forever, but
I'm willing to except it if thats what the math says hehe

Would anyone care to take a crack at this.

- Z

i mis-wrote when I wrote...

"as certainly a 1 to a 5 (which only has 4 cards to it) vs a 1 to a 10
(which has 6)"

I was referring to most card counting systems and how values are
assigned. Numercial values to given face cards. I wrote 1 to 10s,
which have 6 by mistake. Only FOUR 10's is what i meant.

But... what I meant...

Given the math, the correlation coeffcents, they're seems to be a
disturbing pattern if thats how the count numbers are distributed. A
simple example, if you were to count just +1 for every 5 you saw, and
-1 for ever 10 you saw, you'd be 4times more likely to -1.

I've practically all but mastered hi-opt ii. I've yet to face a
session in which I don't come out with positive cash. But, I've had to
change optimal strategy and the illustrious 8 so often that they don't
even seem  to matter anymore. ... for example, doubling down on soft
12 and 13 vs dealer all but Aces (i say that only as I havent dared to
do so yet) on true counts of greater than 4. Doubling down on hard
counts of 13 and 14 on dealer all but 9,10 A on TC's of -5.

Fighting positive decks is easy. You win, and it comes naturally. But
winning at negatives is quite a stress.

Not all of us have the luxury of simply walkign away from negative
decks and miraculously popping up at positive ones.

Can we share our experiences of the low counts. And, come up with an
illustrious 18 or more for the miserably painful times.

- Z

CV has an online calculator that will show you the expected Count
Freq.
http://www.qfit.com/cvcxonlineviewer.htm

The chart that it makes use to show you a lot more, but now you have
to have a password for the extra info




--- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, zendynamics
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> i mis-wrote when I wrote...
>
> "as certainly a 1 to a 5 (which only has 4 cards to it) vs a 1 to
a 10
> (which has 6)"
>
> I was referring to most card counting systems and how values are
> assigned. Numercial values to given face cards. I wrote 1 to 10s,
> which have 6 by mistake. Only FOUR 10's is what i meant.
>
> But... what I meant...
>
> Given the math, the correlation coeffcents, they're seems to be a
> disturbing pattern if thats how the count numbers are distributed.
A
> simple example, if you were to count just +1 for every 5 you saw,
and
> -1 for ever 10 you saw, you'd be 4times more likely to -1.
>
> I've practically all but mastered hi-opt ii. I've yet to face a
> session in which I don't come out with positive cash. But, I've
had to
> change optimal strategy and the illustrious 8 so often that they
don't
> even seem  to matter anymore. ... for example, doubling down on
soft
> 12 and 13 vs dealer all but Aces (i say that only as I havent
dared to
> do so yet) on true counts of greater than 4. Doubling down on hard
> counts of 13 and 14 on dealer all but 9,10 A on TC's of -5.
>
> Fighting positive decks is easy. You win, and it comes naturally.
But
> winning at negatives is quite a stress.
>
> Not all of us have the luxury of simply walkign away from negative
> decks and miraculously popping up at positive ones.
>
> Can we share our experiences of the low counts. And, come up with
an
> illustrious 18 or more for the miserably painful times.
>
> - Z
>

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Strange action this week!

I was playing BJ at an Atlantic City casino Thurs evening (I won't
name the place) when the guy playing next to me asked me to join him
away from the table during a shuffle break.  He quietly told me he
knew I was counting cards!  Not knowing who this guy was, I denied
it (of course!).  But he said my betting and play was obvious.  He
claimed to be a BJ professional and offered to give me some pointers
someplace private.  Not knowing if this guy was a casino "plant", I
declined.  He wished me luck and walked away.

I was definitely taken aback and felt paranoid for the rest of the
nite.  I try hard to mask my play but I was sitting in the middle
seat so its possible my head movements were a giveaway.  But this is
also my first year at advantage play so I know there is definitely
room for improvement.  Having reflected on it afterwards, I may have
given up the chance for some pointers from a "guru"...but I just
wasn't sure about him.  And BTW, my 2 day session was a strong
win!!!!

If (by chance) you're out there, you know who you are.  Email me
here or offline.

Anyone else ever have a situation like this?  Do casinos
have "plants" at the tables?  And I DON'T mean the potted green kind
you water every day!!  :-)

--JB

Just playing around with CVBJ (V3) for the very first time. What a neat
tool! Very complete in it's Casino db (for my current level of experience,
anyway).

However, I've noticed that when looking over the list of systems that can be
selected, I see no evidence that KO is among them. Is this perhaps by
design...? An oversight..?  Or could it be (again.. this is me the novice
going off on some wild theory;) that the author felt that Red Seven and KO
were somehow similar enough as to not warrant including both systems?

Perhaps KO will appear in V4?

Ciao!

You should email them and ask.
Looking in the help file it says they have a OK based on KO.
Maybe they couldn't get permission to use KO.

I think there's a way to put in your own systems, perhaps you could
add it there.


--- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, "wgg14"
<wgg14@c...> wrote:
>
> Just playing around with CVBJ (V3) for the very first time. What a
neat
> tool! Very complete in it's Casino db (for my current level of
experience,
> anyway).
>
> However, I've noticed that when looking over the list of systems
that can be
> selected, I see no evidence that KO is among them. Is this perhaps
by
> design...? An oversight..?  Or could it be (again.. this is me the
novice
> going off on some wild theory;) that the author felt that Red
Seven and KO
> were somehow similar enough as to not warrant including both
systems?
>
> Perhaps KO will appear in V4?
>
> Ciao!
>

--- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, "outta_luck99"
<outta_luck99@y...> wrote:
>
> Strange action this week!
>
> I was playing BJ at an Atlantic City casino Thurs evening (I won't
> name the place) when the guy playing next to me asked me to join him
> away from the table during a shuffle break.  He quietly told me he
> knew I was counting cards!  Not knowing who this guy was, I denied
> it (of course!).  But he said my betting and play was obvious.  He
> claimed to be a BJ professional and offered to give me some pointers
> someplace private.  Not knowing if this guy was a casino "plant", I
> declined.  He wished me luck and walked away.
>
> I was definitely taken aback and felt paranoid for the rest of the
> nite.  I try hard to mask my play but I was sitting in the middle
> seat so its possible my head movements were a giveaway.  But this is
> also my first year at advantage play so I know there is definitely
> room for improvement.  Having reflected on it afterwards, I may have
> given up the chance for some pointers from a "guru"...but I just
> wasn't sure about him.  And BTW, my 2 day session was a strong
> win!!!!
>
> If (by chance) you're out there, you know who you are.  Email me
> here or offline.
>
> Anyone else ever have a situation like this?  Do casinos
> have "plants" at the tables?  And I DON'T mean the potted green kind
> you water every day!!  :-)
>
> --JB

He was probably a legitimate, experienced counter. But probably not a
major professional or guru. AC is the last place in the world you have
to worry about bad behavior on the part of the casinos- the games
aren't good enough and the number of suckers large enough where
there's nothing to be gained by harrassing and ejecting counters and
possibly scaring gambling tourists away.

Yes, there are a lot of good systems missing from the library, but you
can add any system you want, so it's no big deal.

--- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, "catman_182"
<catman_182@y...> wrote:
>
>
> You should email them and ask.
> Looking in the help file it says they have a OK based on KO.
> Maybe they couldn't get permission to use KO.
>
> I think there's a way to put in your own systems, perhaps you could
> add it there.
>
>
> --- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, "wgg14"
> <wgg14@c...> wrote:
> >
> > Just playing around with CVBJ (V3) for the very first time. What a
> neat
> > tool! Very complete in it's Casino db (for my current level of
> experience,
> > anyway).
> >
> > However, I've noticed that when looking over the list of systems
> that can be
> > selected, I see no evidence that KO is among them. Is this perhaps
> by
> > design...? An oversight..?  Or could it be (again.. this is me the
> novice
> > going off on some wild theory;) that the author felt that Red
> Seven and KO
> > were somehow similar enough as to not warrant including both
> systems?
> >
> > Perhaps KO will appear in V4?
> >
> > Ciao!
> >
>

--- "outta_luck99" <outta_luck99@y...> wrote:
>
> He claimed to be a BJ professional and offered
> to give me some pointers someplace private...
> And BTW, my 2 day session was a strong win!!!!

Hmmmm, a stranger sees you raising your bets and winning lots of
money then wants to take you someplace "private." That sounds a
little sketchy to me. You did the right thing by walking away.

> Having reflected on it afterwards, I may
> have given up the chance for some pointers
> from a "guru"...but I just wasn't sure about him.

He may have been a skilled card counter, but you never know. If he is
a skilled player you will probably see him around again. I would
check out his action before you decide to meet with him privately. If
you see him playing a progression system you will know that you
dodged a bullet. If he plays solidly you can always approach him
later.

You could also check the other (more active) blackjack message
boards. If this guy is legit he is probably lurking around cyberspace
somewhere.

Hi

---  "Vytas Ivanouskas" <vytas@m...> wrote:
>
> Hi
>

Howdy! Welcome to our group.

--- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, adamladygo
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> --- "outta_luck99" <outta_luck99@y...> wrote:
> >
> > He claimed to be a BJ professional and offered
> > to give me some pointers someplace private...
> > And BTW, my 2 day session was a strong win!!!!
>
> Hmmmm, a stranger sees you raising your bets and winning lots of
> money then wants to take you someplace "private." That sounds a
> little sketchy to me. You did the right thing by walking away...

Excellent point. Robbery and violence are major issues in Atlantic
City and even the Boardwalk proper can be dangerous between 3AM and
dawn. The sidesteets around the Boardwalk are always dangerous.

I am the guy of OPP count.

First I want thank the moderator of this site for his grate post at
BJ21!

Thank you very much

Any simulation result and any spread sheet you need about the OPP is
available, you simply ask what you need by mail and I will send it
back

I have results from the very beginning with a home made simulator
with excel macros.

I want to state that OPP has its values and my intention was never
to compete against any higher level. It is what it is: entry level
system
and a very good anti-stress system.

My grate frustration is that after all the work I did I discovered
that apparently I reinvented the wheel.

But any way now is there for any one who want to start to count,

Thanks,
Carlos

Hi, i'm new to the post.  I am wondering what a decent bankroll would
be for 3 people working as a team on 4 deck 1-25 dollar spreads.  We
are using KO preferred and are trying to put together as much info as
we can.  any other info anyone can give would be great.  is 25 dollar
limit worth trying with three people or would the earnings be too low?
4 decks, good penetration, s17, resplit aces, double after split

Care to tell us where this game is hiding? ;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ddock76
> Sent: Friday, 11 November, 2005 7:31 PM
> To: blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [CCCafe] Bankroll?
>
> Hi, i'm new to the post.  I am wondering what a decent bankroll would
> be for 3 people working as a team on 4 deck 1-25 dollar spreads.  We
> are using KO preferred and are trying to put together as much info as
> we can.  any other info anyone can give would be great.  is 25 dollar
> limit worth trying with three people or would the earnings be too low?
> 4 decks, good penetration, s17, resplit aces, double after split
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, email:
> blackjackcardcounterscafe-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> ====================================================================
>
> John May-"Get The Edge at Blackjack"
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1566251516/johnmayalsoknowa/
> New and devastating blackjack methods
>
> ====================================================================
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

--- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, "ddock76"
<ddock76@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi, i'm new to the post.  I am wondering what a decent bankroll would
> be for 3 people working as a team on 4 deck 1-25 dollar spreads.  We
> are using KO preferred and are trying to put together as much info as
> we can.  any other info anyone can give would be great.  is 25 dollar
> limit worth trying with three people or would the earnings be too low?
> 4 decks, good penetration, s17, resplit aces, double after split
>

Sounds like your paychecks might be a little small. On a game like
that, you can expect a win rate of around 0.25-0.30 big bets per
hundred hands. So we're talking $7.50 per hour. Assuming you can get
down 100 hands per hour. I'm assuming this is not going to be your
full-time job, so the usual bankroll considerations the pros discuss
don't really apply. Each of you should bring a week's pay to the
casino, to start.

Also, what kind of a team game are you planning on playing? Are you
merely sharing bankroll and wins/losses, or are you using a play
caller/big player type of scheme?

One cool thing about 4 deck games is they are very susceptible to
single-key ace sequencing. This is a black art, and it is more likely
to get you in trouble because it looks more like cheating than
advantage play to an untrained person. But if I had a 3 man team on a
4D game that would be the approach I would take.

Thankyou for posting Carlos.
I am glad you thought my criticism was not too hard, as I like the
system and wish you every success with it.

You seem to have adopted bjfonline as your home so I don't expect we
will see much of you, but you are very welcome here.

One suggestion: you might want to follow up on my suggestion about
backcounting multiple tables. You will probably find that OPP wins
more when you backcount two tables than if you backcount one with hi-
lo. If you could provide a sim on this then you might get
professional-level players interested, who wouldn't normally consider
a simple system like OPP.

--- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, "Carlos"
<cpzc@y...> wrote:
>
> I am the guy of OPP count.
>
> First I want thank the moderator of this site for his grate post at
> BJ21!
>
> Thank you very much
>
> Any simulation result and any spread sheet you need about the OPP
is
> available, you simply ask what you need by mail and I will send it
> back
>
> I have results from the very beginning with a home made simulator
> with excel macros.
>
> I want to state that OPP has its values and my intention was never
> to compete against any higher level. It is what it is: entry level
> system
> and a very good anti-stress system.
>
> My grate frustration is that after all the work I did I discovered
> that apparently I reinvented the wheel.
>
> But any way now is there for any one who want to start to count,
>
> Thanks,
> Carlos
>

My home is were I am welcome!

And I can have multiple homes.

I have the email notification on so any question or post about OPP will be
followed and answered.

Thanks again

Carlos

sys381 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thankyou for posting Carlos.
I am glad you thought my criticism was not too hard, as I like the
system and wish you every success with it.

You seem to have adopted bjfonline as your home so I don't expect we
will see much of you, but you are very welcome here.

One suggestion: you might want to follow up on my suggestion about
backcounting multiple tables. You will probably find that OPP wins
more when you backcount two tables than if you backcount one with hi-
lo. If you could provide a sim on this then you might get
professional-level players interested, who wouldn't normally consider
a simple system like OPP.

--- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, "Carlos"
<cpzc@y...> wrote:
>
> I am the guy of OPP count.
>
> First I want thank the moderator of this site for his grate post at
> BJ21!
>
> Thank you very much
>
> Any simulation result and any spread sheet you need about the OPP
is
> available, you simply ask what you need by mail and I will send it
> back
>
> I have results from the very beginning with a home made simulator
> with excel macros.
>
> I want to state that OPP has its values and my intention was never
> to compete against any higher level. It is what it is: entry level
> system
> and a very good anti-stress system.
>
> My grate frustration is that after all the work I did I discovered
> that apparently I reinvented the wheel.
>
> But any way now is there for any one who want to start to count,
>
> Thanks,
> Carlos
>






To unsubscribe from this group, email:
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====================================================================

John May-"Get The Edge at Blackjack"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1566251516/johnmayalsoknowa/
New and devastating blackjack methods

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IT IS A LOAD OF BOLLOCKS! PLEASE DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THIS CRAP!



> I recently discovered a great blackjack system called "Blackjack
> Secrets" by Jack X.
>
> In my opinion, it's the best place for a player who wants to
improve
> his game in order to win thousands of dollars.
>
> I'm really excited about it, because these days you can find tons
of
> advice anywhere. And this book is different than everything else
out
> there mainly because of Jack X himself.
>
> During the past 17 years, he was the "secret weapon" that won more
> than $5,430,000 playing in casinos, yet he remained a "shadow".
>
> In his book, Jack explains his step-by-step methods that made him
> become a millionaire by playing blackjack.
>
> Best part: you don't have to have a big memory or razor-sharp
smarts
> in order to apply his secrets in your game.
>
> He explains exactly how to get in a casino and pass as a high-
roller
> gambler that gets lucky. And gets away with cold hard cash day in -
> day out.
>
> He also reveals the easiest methods to win at blackjack online.
>
> There are simple things that you can do to separate yourself from
99%
> of the other players that lose money in the long run, and Jack X
> spells them out one by one.
>
> The system in this book is practical and easy to use. And you can
> start winning thousands of dollars right away.
>
> I really cannot recommend this book enough. "Blackjack Secrets" is
an
> absolute must read for any casino player, no matter where you're
at in
> the game.
>
> Here's the link to learn more:
>
> http://www.blackjack2win.com/adtrackz/go.php?c=undergroundblackjack
>
> Thanks for reading my post,
>    Johnny
>    Blackjack Professional Player
>

Carlos, you are most welcome here and it is great to see new work
being done on different methods to try to get some edge from the
casinos !

However, and noting that I know Hi-Lo better than I know my wife, I
don't see where OPP is any simpler !

In Hi-Lo we can also simplify things by not counting a plus card
when it is paired with a minus card. .. ie .. T2 counts as 0 or more
simply is ignored and not counted..etc.. etc

I spent an hour reading about OPP and then tried it a bit and found
it harder than Hi-Lo, as I had to remember all the values for
different hands and I find it easier to simply count the cards as I
see them.

Just my opinion .. Slag

--- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, Carlos Zilzer
<cpzc@y...> wrote:
>
> My home is were I am welcome!
>
> And I can have multiple homes.
>
> I have the email notification on so any question or post about OPP
will be followed and answered.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Carlos
>
> sys381 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Thankyou for posting Carlos.
> I am glad you thought my criticism was not too hard, as I like the
> system and wish you every success with it.
>
> You seem to have adopted bjfonline as your home so I don't expect
we
> will see much of you, but you are very welcome here.
>
> One suggestion: you might want to follow up on my suggestion about
> backcounting multiple tables. You will probably find that OPP wins
> more when you backcount two tables than if you backcount one with
hi-
> lo. If you could provide a sim on this then you might get
> professional-level players interested, who wouldn't normally
consider
> a simple system like OPP.
>
> --- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, "Carlos"
> <cpzc@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I am the guy of OPP count.
> >
> > First I want thank the moderator of this site for his grate post
at
> > BJ21!
> >
> > Thank you very much
> >
> > Any simulation result and any spread sheet you need about the
OPP
> is
> > available, you simply ask what you need by mail and I will send
it
> > back
> >
> > I have results from the very beginning with a home made
simulator
> > with excel macros.
> >
> > I want to state that OPP has its values and my intention was
never
> > to compete against any higher level. It is what it is: entry
level
> > system
> > and a very good anti-stress system.
> >
> > My grate frustration is that after all the work I did I
discovered
> > that apparently I reinvented the wheel.
> >
> > But any way now is there for any one who want to start to count,
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Carlos
> >
>
>
>
>
>

We would be sharing a bankroll, and playing around 20 hours a month each, so no,
it won't be our full-time job.  The games are in local bars in North Dakota,
which have no heat at all and allow any spread. About ace sequencing, where
would i find any information on that.  I saw it advertised on the
blackjackscience.com website in the advanced dvd and was considering purchasing
it, but wasn't sure if i was getting ripped off for the 150 dollar price tag. 
thanks alot for your help

Gino Polkamouse <gino_polkamouse@...> wrote:
--- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, "ddock76"
<ddock76@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi, i'm new to the post.  I am wondering what a decent bankroll would
> be for 3 people working as a team on 4 deck 1-25 dollar spreads.  We
> are using KO preferred and are trying to put together as much info as
> we can.  any other info anyone can give would be great.  is 25 dollar
> limit worth trying with three people or would the earnings be too low?
> 4 decks, good penetration, s17, resplit aces, double after split
>

Sounds like your paychecks might be a little small. On a game like
that, you can expect a win rate of around 0.25-0.30 big bets per
hundred hands. So we're talking $7.50 per hour. Assuming you can get
down 100 hands per hour. I'm assuming this is not going to be your
full-time job, so the usual bankroll considerations the pros discuss
don't really apply. Each of you should bring a week's pay to the
casino, to start.

Also, what kind of a team game are you planning on playing? Are you
merely sharing bankroll and wins/losses, or are you using a play
caller/big player type of scheme?

One cool thing about 4 deck games is they are very susceptible to
single-key ace sequencing. This is a black art, and it is more likely
to get you in trouble because it looks more like cheating than
advantage play to an untrained person. But if I had a 3 man team on a
4D game that would be the approach I would take.






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http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1566251516/johnmayalsoknowa/
New and devastating blackjack methods

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Slag

I personally use RED 7 and have some tracking skills to play my own
game. I have been using OPP for back count, actually it started like
that but counting high cards not low cards. Some day I will tell the
hall story how I started thinking on it and why I decided to work on
it.

The OPP is very simple and easy to learn and implement. I think the
issue is my communications capabilities in a foreign language (my
native language is Spanish).

In a next post here (next week) I will try to explain it better, how
I have teach it and the feedback I have had.

Carlos
--- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, "slagwater9"
<slagwater9@a...> wrote:
>
> Carlos, you are most welcome here and it is great to see new work
> being done on different methods to try to get some edge from the
> casinos !
>
> However, and noting that I know Hi-Lo better than I know my wife,
I
> don't see where OPP is any simpler !
>
> In Hi-Lo we can also simplify things by not counting a plus card
> when it is paired with a minus card. .. ie .. T2 counts as 0 or
more
> simply is ignored and not counted..etc.. etc
>
> I spent an hour reading about OPP and then tried it a bit and
found
> it harder than Hi-Lo, as I had to remember all the values for
> different hands and I find it easier to simply count the cards as
I
> see them.
>
> Just my opinion .. Slag
>
> --- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, Carlos Zilzer
> <cpzc@y...> wrote:
> >
> > My home is were I am welcome!
> >
> > And I can have multiple homes.
> >
> > I have the email notification on so any question or post about
OPP
> will be followed and answered.
> >
> > Thanks again
> >
> > Carlos
> >
> > sys381 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thankyou for posting Carlos.
> > I am glad you thought my criticism was not too hard, as I like
the
> > system and wish you every success with it.
> >
> > You seem to have adopted bjfonline as your home so I don't
expect
> we
> > will see much of you, but you are very welcome here.
> >
> > One suggestion: you might want to follow up on my suggestion
about
> > backcounting multiple tables. You will probably find that OPP
wins
> > more when you backcount two tables than if you backcount one
with
> hi-
> > lo. If you could provide a sim on this then you might get
> > professional-level players interested, who wouldn't normally
> consider
> > a simple system like OPP.
> >
> > --- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, "Carlos"
> > <cpzc@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am the guy of OPP count.
> > >
> > > First I want thank the moderator of this site for his grate
post
> at
> > > BJ21!
> > >
> > > Thank you very much
> > >
> > > Any simulation result and any spread sheet you need about the
> OPP
> > is
> > > available, you simply ask what you need by mail and I will
send
> it
> > > back
> > >
> > > I have results from the very beginning with a home made
> simulator
> > > with excel macros.
> > >
> > > I want to state that OPP has its values and my intention was
> never
> > > to compete against any higher level. It is what it is: entry
> level
> > > system
> > > and a very good anti-stress system.
> > >
> > > My grate frustration is that after all the work I did I
> discovered
> > > that apparently I reinvented the wheel.
> > >
> > > But any way now is there for any one who want to start to
count,
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Carlos
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

I'll save you $150. You have to go and make notes of exactly how they
shuffle, go home, and reproduce it on your kitchen table. (Or even
better, spend your money on the Casino Verite software which has all
this stuff built in.) Once you can shuffle just like the dealers, put
the queen of each suit on top of the ace of each suit in the pack, do
the shuffle, spread out the cards, and what you will see will take
your breath away. True, you won't always be able to predict the
location of an ace this way but if you know one of your cards is going
to be an ace you have a 50% advantage, so it's OK to be wrong quite
often.

Single-key: you memorize the first "key card" on top of each ace. In a
4 deck game there are 3 other identical cards so there's only a 25%
chance that an ace is coming when you see a key card, but 25% of a 50%
advantage isn't bad at all. Single-key is still useful in a 6D game,
but marginal on an 8D game.

Double-key: you memorize the two key cards on top of each ace. This is
much more difficult because the order of the cards then becomes
important. But the likelihood of a key being false goes down
dramatically and it's equally useful on games of any number of decks.

These are just the basics of sequencing theory and a lot of it isn't
discussed openly. It's much more powerful than counting if you find
the right game and are playing with the right people.

--- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, Dustin Dockter
<ddock76@y...> wrote:
>
> We would be sharing a bankroll, and playing around 20 hours a month
each, so no, it won't be our full-time job.  The games are in local
bars in North Dakota, which have no heat at all and allow any spread.
About ace sequencing, where would i find any information on that.  I
saw it advertised on the blackjackscience.com website in the advanced
dvd and was considering purchasing it, but wasn't sure if i was
getting ripped off for the 150 dollar price tag.  thanks alot for your
help
>
> Gino Polkamouse <gino_polkamouse@y...> wrote:
> --- In blackjackcardcounterscafe@yahoogroups.com, "ddock76"
> <ddock76@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, i'm new to the post.  I am wondering what a decent bankroll would
> > be for 3 people working as a team on 4 deck 1-25 dollar spreads.  We
> > are using KO preferred and are trying to put together as much info as
> > we can.  any other info anyone can give would be great.  is 25 dollar
> > limit worth trying with three people or would the earnings be too low?
> > 4 decks, good penetration, s17, resplit aces, double after split
> >
>
> Sounds like your paychecks might be a little small. On a game like
> that, you can expect a win rate of around 0.25-0.30 big bets per
> hundred hands. So we're talking $7.50 per hour. Assuming you can get
> down 100 hands per hour. I'm assuming this is not going to be your
> full-time job, so the usual bankroll considerations the pros discuss
> don't really apply. Each of you should bring a week's pay to the
> casino, to start.
>
> Also, what kind of a team game are you planning on playing? Are you
> merely sharing bankroll and wins/losses, or are you using a play
> caller/big player type of scheme?
>
> One cool thing about 4 deck games is they are very susceptible to
> single-key ace sequencing. This is a black art, and it is more likely
> to get you in trouble because it looks more like cheating than
> advantage play to an untrained person. But if I had a 3 man team on a
> 4D game that would be the approach I would take.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, email:
> blackjackcardcounterscafe-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> ====================================================================
>
> John May-"Get The Edge at Blackjack"
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1566251516/johnmayalsoknowa/
> New and devastating blackjack methods
>
> ====================================================================
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Don't bother buying the MIT DVD. It doesn't even cover shuffle
tracking, only cut-off tracking which is a simplified and less powerful
form of shuffle tracking. It is a good DVD but not nearly worth the
price. Gino's post above has much more information on shuffle tracking
than the DVD does.

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