Hi,

I managed to prima the game database. Also adding of players works ...
(this is done via a utility which is unaware of different libraries...
which you are able to tell the game itself )
I will try to add the files detected to the svn

Next Step will be running a turn :)

Loria

dsnlab /atlantis@.../ - It is live!
There is still who live?

--

MadCap

Sure,
we are still alive

Loria
On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 12:57:05AM +0300, crying@... wrote:
> dsnlab /atlantis@.../ - It is live!
> There is still who live?
>
> --
>
> MadCap
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

 

Sure,
we are still alive

Loria
On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 12:57:05AM +0300, crying@... wrote:
> dsnlab /atlantis@incub.ru/ - It is live!
> There is still who live?
>
> --
>
> MadCap

Reply to sender | Reply to group

Messages in this topic (2)

MARKETPLACE

Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest Unsubscribe Terms of Use

.

+2 here

crying@... wrote:
>
> +1 who else?
>
>     Sure,
>     we are still alive
>
>     Loria
>     On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 12:57:05AM +0300, crying@...
>     <mailto:crying@...> wrote:
>     > dsnlab /atlantis@... <mailto:/atlantis@...>/ - It is live!
>     > There is still who live?
>     >
>     > --
>     >
>     > MadCap
>
>     Reply to sender
>     <mailto:Atlantisdev@...?subject=Re:%20%5Batlantisdev%5D>
>     | Reply to group
>     <mailto:atlantisdev@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re:%20%5Batlantisdev%5D>
>     Messages in this topic
>    
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlantisdev/message/8082;_ylc=X3oDMTM0Y3MzcHU2BF9\
TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NjczNTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjA4NTcyBG1zZ0lkAzgwODMEc2VjA2Z\
0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjU3MzcyODM4BHRwY0lkAzgwODI->
>     (2)
>     MARKETPLACE
>     Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their
>     families, for the world and for each other
>    
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ups/S=1707208572:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1257380038/L=/B=bpZXIkPDhFo-/J=125737283874533\
9/K=JQeJfFR_BFez95cdMGhWJw/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http://groups.yahoo.com/\
group/mompowergroup/>
>
>     Yahoo! Groups
>    
<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdDAzNTU1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NjczN\
TEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjA4NTcyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjU3MzcyODM4>
>
>     Switch to: Text-Only
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>
>

Sorry, I didn't get the question :)
Is DSN server alive? Nice to hear.
This group is also alive and we are looking forward to final A5 release or any
other game similar to Atlantis :)


----- Original Message ----
> From: Trevor <t_whyatt@...>
> To: atlantisdev@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 11:27:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [atlantisdev]
>
> +2 here
>
> crying@... wrote:
> >
> > +1 who else?
> >
> >     Sure,
> >     we are still alive
> >
> >     Loria
> >     On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 12:57:05AM +0300, crying@...
> >    wrote:
> >     > dsnlab /atlantis@... / - It is live!
> >     > There is still who live?
> >     >
> >     > --
> >     >
> >     > MadCap
> >
> >     Reply to sender
> >
> >     | Reply to group
> >
> >     Messages in this topic
> >
>
> >     (2)
> >     MARKETPLACE
> >     Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their
> >     families, for the world and for each other
> >
>
> >
> >     Yahoo! Groups
> >
>
> >
> >     Switch to: Text-Only
> >
> ,
> >     Daily Digest
> >
>
> >     Unsubscribe
> >
> >     Terms of Use
> >     .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To Post a message, send it to:  atlantisdev@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> atlantisdev-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
>
>
>

Hello!

my English is very bad , but... Who remembers the World is Arroyo? GM can recover the World? or new Game

Hostile : The Guardsmen (1), Silent Ones (15), Cutting Edge Trading Company (48), The Judges (12), Twin Skies (8), Creatures (2), Elven Liberation Front (41)

Ally : Dark Man (21), Army of Shining Moon (39), Black Dragon (42), Dii Minores (18), Snobbish Strutters (19), RealmKeepers (24), Woodoo (30), The Fallen Angels (17), 'Arry (54), Anchorites (66), North Pole Elves (43), Annunaki The Elders (60), Therias (61), Aelita (62), Haus Fafner (73)

úÄÒÁ×ÓÔ×ÕÊÔÅ!

ÍÏÊ ÁÎÇÌÉÊÓËÉÊ ÏÞÅÎØ ÐÌÏÈ

Ahha, I remember that game. It was quite fun from beginning, old good allies
who don't play anymore these days - many were still interested in Atlantis and
playing.  We had an interesting war with The Judges and their friends. Game died
long time ago and will not come back :)

Yeah, speaking of Atlantis. I would like to join a new one to see what I learned
from recent defeats :)

Beigtais,
Dii Minores


--- In atlantisdev@yahoogroups.com, crying@... wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> my English is very bad , but... Who remembers the World is Arroyo? GM can
recover the World? or new Game
>
>
>
> Hostile : The Guardsmen (1), Silent Ones (15), Cutting Edge Trading Company
(48), The Judges (12), Twin Skies (8), Creatures (2), Elven Liberation Front
(41)
>
>
>
> Ally : Dark Man (21), Army of Shining Moon (39), Black Dragon (42), Dii
Minores (18), Snobbish Strutters (19), RealmKeepers (24), Woodoo (30), The
Fallen Angels (17), 'Arry (54), Anchorites (66), North Pole Elves (43), Annunaki
The Elders (60), Therias (61), Aelita (62), Haus Fafner (73)
>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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I found the bug, that's buggin (urgh, horrible pun :D) my players for
some time now.

While giving large amount of men from one unit to another (same faction)
the receiving unit allways receives only a very small amount of skill
... I found why. The calculating of the receiving units skill is done
only with normal, sometimes with unsinged integers. Thus the max number
of days is 65535 if the unsinged int is used. This divided by 180 and we
have a max amount of 364 men that can be given without problems. (145
leaders obviously). And since my players are giving amounts of about 5k
men with comb 3 they are loosing all their skills by doing so ...

I'll try and find every involved int and replace it with unsinged long

Thus 9,5 mil leaders with level 5 skills can be given without problems,
that should be ok. 40,992,764,608,200,000 leaders could be handled if we
would use unsinged long long, but I don't know what this would do to our
performance and I think if a faction is in the need to move more than
9,5 mil leaders with any skill at level five to another unit, it's time
to call him the winner and start the game new :D

If anybody has had his hands inside the giving men and splitting skills
algorithms and can give me a hand, feel free to contact me, I'm limping
forward by try and error at the moment to find all the places I can,
can't, have to and mustn't change to long at the moment :)

Greetings
   Arno


p.s.: maybe we should, especialy for the v5 engine think of changing all
  integers involved with amounts of men or skill days to unsigned long...
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> p.s.: maybe we should, especialy for the v5 engine think of changing all
>  integers involved with amounts of men or skill days to unsigned long...

Instead of wasting all that memory, you may want to read
http://www.fefe.de/intof.html

Enno.

Hi Arno,

I was investigating a bug in your game where teaching large units did
not work as it should. I checked out the 4.1.0 code and reproduced the
problem. The unit-split bug is similar to this one.

You can find a very simple fix for both issues below, tested to solve
the problem with g++ (GCC) 4.1.2. With some luck your players can work
with units containing 2M men without issues.


900 leaders teach a unit of 9000 men. One turn later the students have
only gained 7 days, while 60 days are expected.

The problem is caused by a maxint overflow in the teaching code, due
to multiplying the size of one unit by the size of another unit, and
then multiplied by a constant.

There was a thread in march 2003 about exactly this bug
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlantisdev/message/5024 , but
apparantly never was implemented, in part due to 64 bit integers (long
long) not being supported on all platforms. That should be no problem
now, 7 years later.

branches/PATCHES_410/runorders.cpp/monthorders.cpp:371
    int days = (30 * unit->GetMen() * Globals->STUDENTS_PER_TEACHER);
    <snip>
    int tempdays = (umen * days) / students;

days = (30 * 900 * 10) = 270000;
tempdays = (9000 * 270000) / 9000;
tempdays = (2430000000) / 9000; The temporary value exceeds maxint
(2147483647) and overflows:
tempdays = (-1864967296) / 9000 = -207219.
Instead of the expected bonus of 30 days this teacher gives
-207219/9000 = -23 days.

Also patching a similiar unit-split bug in the same way (which already
can trigger for a skill-5 unit with 2200 leaders).

Patch is below.

Greetings,
Zorky


Index: monthorders.cpp
===================================================================
380c380
<                       int tempdays = (umen * days) / students;
---
                        int tempdays = ((long long)umen * days) / students;

Index: skills.cpp
===================================================================
119c119
<       temp->days = (days * leave) / total;
---
        temp->days = ((long long)days * leave) / total;
===================================================================





Citeren Arno Saxena <al-s@...>:

> I found the bug, that's buggin (urgh, horrible pun :D) my players for
> some time now.
>
> While giving large amount of men from one unit to another (same faction)
> the receiving unit allways receives only a very small amount of skill

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Zorky wrote:

> You can find a very simple fix for both issues below, tested to solve
> the problem with g++ (GCC) 4.1.2. With some luck your players can work
> with units containing 2M men without issues.
>

funny, this discussion is from 2003, my actual game is running the very
last v4 engine...

Anyway, thinking of an open ended amount of men to give, I would still
vote for the split give command (maybe with some thinking a split teach
too, tho this won't be as easy as the giving...). As Enno has pointed
out earlier, just moving from int to long isn't the correct way of
thinking, since it will only postpone the problem...
Greetings
Arno
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Enno Rehling wrote:
>> p.s.: maybe we should, especialy for the v5 engine think of changing all
>>  integers involved with amounts of men or skill days to unsigned long...
>
> Instead of wasting all that memory, you may want to read
> http://www.fefe.de/intof.html
>
> Enno.
>
Hi Enno,
I had a look into the assay you've recommended. Especialy of course the
"multiplication can overflow too" part. The ideas behind are good, and
of course this should be included everytime integers are multiplied and
undefined outcomes have to be excluded for security reasons. But the
routines described will only catch the overflows and do not solve them.
With this included to our code, we could only generate propper error
messages or split up the giving command internaly. With the first we
still would not be able to give large amounts of men, with the second
the code would become very arkward (ok, some would say even more arkward
:D). I don't think we can avoid changing the involved integers to
unsinged long....


while writing this, the idea of chopping the giving of large numbers of
men does sound better and better... putting the giving of men into a

last_man_given = false
while (!last_man_given) {
   if (amount_men > max_amount_men) {
     give max_amount_men
     amount_men - max_amount_men
   } else {
     give amount_men
     last_man_given = true
   }
}

loop should do the trick ...

still I would have to think about adding up the give commands for the
report ...

I'll do some testing tonight, you guys could send me your input about
this approach...

greetings
   Arno
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On Monday 25 January 2010 10:16:17 am Zorky wrote:

> 900 leaders teach a unit of 9000 men. One turn later the students have
> only gained 7 days, while 60 days are expected.
>
> The problem is caused by a maxint overflow in the teaching code, due
> to multiplying the size of one unit by the size of another unit, and
> then multiplied by a constant.

Why multiply unit sizes?

n teachers produce N = n*30*10 hours.
m students can take M = m*30 extra hours.
students take lesser of M and N.

with 32 bit integers overflows at around 2*10^9/300 = 0.7*10^7 = 7 million
teachers.


On Monday 25 January 2010 11:14:38 am Arno Saxena wrote:
> too, tho this won't be as easy as the giving...). As Enno has pointed
> out earlier, just moving from int to long isn't the correct way of
> thinking, since it will only postpone the problem...

On 32 bit systems both int and long are the same size, 32 bit, so replacement
will not achieve anything.
On the 64 bit systems, M$ compiler has both int and long at 32 bits, Unix-like
systems usually have 32 bit ints and 64 bit longs, so switching on Linux, for
example, might help.

Switching from shorts to ints might be beneficial, but quick search in the
source (v5) reveals that shorts are not used.

Either way, switching from 32 bit variables to 64 bit variables to solve a
problem which can easily be solved by applying correct algorithms is not the
right approach, I totally agree with Enno :)


Cheers,
Max

Hello Atlanteans!

I hope somebody will find this useful.

Spurred on by the release of Olympia, I have decided that I did not want
the source for Eressea to be secret and inaccessible forever, or release
only after I have lost interest in it, but rather release it while I'm
still around for anyone interested to bombard me with questions.

Eressea was originally based on Atlantis 1.0. It has been in development
for 13 years, and has been tested in over a dozen different worlds with
varying rule-sets, for anything from a quick 50-turn weekend game to the
original game which is now in turn 660.

Source for this project can be found at http://gitorious.org/eressea

While this is the same source that I'm running my two current games
from, it does not currently include any of the spells or monsters in
those. I'm planning on adding a few generic ones in there as examples,
without giving away too much about the strength of dragons or the exact
details of the rust spell, etc.

Hail Atlantis!
Enno.

--
Eressea Homepage: http://www.eressea.de/

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have taken the liberty and had a look into your source :)

oh, heaven! all preferences and item descriptions in xml files, Atlantis
should have done that a long time ago too :D

but what's the advantage of lua? (it is the tecgraf lua language isn't it?)

Arno

Enno Rehling wrote:
> Hello Atlanteans!
>
> I hope somebody will find this useful.
>
> Spurred on by the release of Olympia, I have decided that I did not want
> the source for Eressea to be secret and inaccessible forever, or release
> only after I have lost interest in it, but rather release it while I'm
> still around for anyone interested to bombard me with questions.
>
> Eressea was originally based on Atlantis 1.0. It has been in development
> for 13 years, and has been tested in over a dozen different worlds with
> varying rule-sets, for anything from a quick 50-turn weekend game to the
> original game which is now in turn 660.
>
> Source for this project can be found at http://gitorious.org/eressea
>
> While this is the same source that I'm running my two current games
> from, it does not currently include any of the spells or monsters in
> those. I'm planning on adding a few generic ones in there as examples,
> without giving away too much about the strength of dragons or the exact
> details of the rust spell, etc.
>
> Hail Atlantis!
> Enno.
>

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Greetings, Arno Saxena!

AS> but what's the advantage of lua? (it is the tecgraf lua language isn't it?)

If you ask me, the only advantage of Lua, is that it's easy to learn.
Everything else is disadvantages. If you have choice - avoid it like plague.
No strict syntax (only procedural parsing of source code is possible), braindead
typization, everything defaults to global scope (so-called global polluting),
slow addressing of global scope, thus you have to localize (reassign) about
every function and structure you're using in single script...


--
WBR,
  Andrey Repin (hell-for-yahoo@...) 09.03.2010, <0:15>
Sorry for my terrible english...

> but what's the advantage of lua? (it is the tecgraf lua language isn't it?)

Not everything is easy to declare in XML. And for things that are
game-dependent, it is nice to be able to change the game rules without
having to change the C code. Granted, most of the things I've done
that is game-specific is not currently in the public repository
(because it's too much a part of the Eressea world that I don't want
to show to al players at this point), but one example is how spells
are declared. The spells to create items are very simle, they're in
http://gitorious.org/eressea/server/blobs/master/scripts/spells.lua

But anything can go in there: Specialized monster AI is in there. My
world creation is in there (write a routine that makes "nice" islands
and call it from the editor, for example). I have put a lot of
integration testing in there, where I quickly construct a situation,
run a turn and check that the result is what I expect.
http://gitorious.org/eressea/server/blobs/master/scripts/tests/common.lua
has tests for non-game-specific stuff, and I have a bunch more that
test the world-specific stuff.

Finally, if you run qith -C, you get a console and you can interact
with the game. just read_game() to load your datafile, then do some
things like for each faction, give the first unit 1000 silver, and
write the game again. Instant Christmas.

Enno.

My jaws have dropped.

Quite unbelievable when one might think that many people, once upon a time,
considered the Eressea code to be a sacred source, which either would be tasted
in the form of a player or only remembered in forms of fantasy and memories.

And now not only Eressea, but also Olympia has gone open source. Adding to that
the ongoing re-write of Overlord and the (now stopped) programming of Menouthis,
one might think that the golden Age of Atlantis has come.

Sadly, it is not the case, for it seems to me the comminity is either dead or
frozen at such low temperatures that it does not even appreciate its latest
great presents. What potential for great games!

Thanks for releasing the code, Enno! After all, that was years of developing,
bug-fixing and optimizing.

Cheers,

   Piotr



p.s.: Or am I wrong, and there is top secret pbem game development going on in
the shadows of long forgotten newsgroups?

Hi Piotr,

thanks for the compliments :-) You are right, many years of debugging,
optimizing and development went into this game, but I decided that that
is not a good reason to keep it to myself. I've already had my fun with
it, and that will not be less if someone else gets a go!

Eressea has taught me many things, it's given me a lot of routine in C
programming, I learned a lot about how to relate with customers, I met a
number of really cool people through it. All that experience probably
helped me getting my first job in the games industry after college.

The coolest thing that could happen from here on would be if some people
set out to make a better game. I'm not going to do that myself, but
maybe a web-based game, maybe very much simplified? Or a complete
re-balancing, a new skill system, or a more Olympia-like game? You can
be bold!

I hope to see that,
Enno.

On 3/26/2010 11:57 AM, iyhael wrote:
> My jaws have dropped.
>
> Quite unbelievable when one might think that many people, once upon a
> time, considered the Eressea code to be a sacred source, which either
> would be tasted in the form of a player or only remembered in forms
> of fantasy and memories.
>
> And now not only Eressea, but also Olympia has gone open source.
> Adding to that the ongoing re-write of Overlord and the (now stopped)
> programming of Menouthis, one might think that the golden Age of
> Atlantis has come.
>
> Sadly, it is not the case, for it seems to me the comminity is either
> dead or frozen at such low temperatures that it does not even
> appreciate its latest great presents. What potential for great
> games!
>
> Thanks for releasing the code, Enno! After all, that was years of
> developing, bug-fixing and optimizing.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Piotr
>
>
>
> p.s.: Or am I wrong, and there is top secret pbem game development
> going on in the shadows of long forgotten newsgroups?

Hello,

Olympia might ring a bell to some of you. Several players have played Olympia
back in the days and then decided to design atlantis.

We're trying to polish that old jewel back to its former glory. If you want to
take a look, please feel free to drop me a message at tom.droeshout [at]
gmail.com

We're in the process of a beta test for our group of 17 old oly players. If that
works we will launch it for the public (1st of September I guess, when everyone
is back from holiday). July & August are very calm in Europe. We still need to
make a website & stuff, but that won't be a problem.

The old g2 game rules will remain valid and are available at www.pbm.com/oly

Btw turns will be run like the old system, once a week. And the game will be
free of course, it's open source anyway.

Bye,


Tom

Some years ago I played eressea, and then another Atlantis game. I wanted to get
back into it again but find that eressea is no longer accepting new players
(correct me if I'm wrong - I tried to sign up and got a message in German which
seemed to indicate that it wasn't).

Are there any games accepting new players where new, or returning, players
aren't at too much of a disadvantage?

On 7/18/2010 7:11 AM, Dead Ringer wrote:
> Some years ago I played eressea, and then another Atlantis game. I
> wanted to get back into it again but find that eressea is no longer
> accepting new players (correct me if I'm wrong - I tried to sign up
> and got a message in German which seemed to indicate that it
> wasn't).

You're right about that. It isn't currently taking new players, there
are two games running at the moment, but they're full up and have an
aging population of a few hundred players left. Some people have shown
interest in the code, but nothing substantial has come of it yet, I
think - I know of one group trying to run a small private game, but
that's all. As for me starting a new game, I don't think it's going to
happen anytime soon. I haven'tgot the energy and time for another one.
Just the initial investment of setting it up is more than I want to
spare at this time, although I _do_ have a few ideas.

> Are there any games accepting new players where new, or returning,
> players aren't at too much of a disadvantage?

Is Arno still running his Atlantis game? That's the biggest one I know of.

Enno.

The game is ready. Olympia game 3 will start on the 1st of September.
It's for 80% similar to Atlantis.

It's free, because it's also open source.

Feel free to check it out at :

http://olympia.v-labs.be/g3/

With regards,



Tom Droeshout
Belgium, Europe




--- In atlantisdev@yahoogroups.com, "tom.droeshout" <tom.droeshout@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Olympia might ring a bell to some of you. Several players have played Olympia
back in the days and then decided to design atlantis.
>
> We're trying to polish that old jewel back to its former glory. If you want to
take a look, please feel free to drop me a message at tom.droeshout [at]
gmail.com
>
> We're in the process of a beta test for our group of 17 old oly players. If
that works we will launch it for the public (1st of September I guess, when
everyone is back from holiday). July & August are very calm in Europe. We still
need to make a website & stuff, but that won't be a problem.
>
> The old g2 game rules will remain valid and are available at www.pbm.com/oly
>
> Btw turns will be run like the old system, once a week. And the game will be
free of course, it's open source anyway.
>
> Bye,
>
>
> Tom
>

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Sorry folks,
I've planed for long, but plainly forgot to post the restart of Arno's
Atlantis here. I know it's very late, but here's the info :)

Today (Sunday 19. September 2010) Arno's Atlantis will start new for the
4th time. I'll stay with the v4 engine used in the last game (96 turns).

the mail address is: st.atlantis@...

and it will accept registration mails with a body like this:

#newplayer
Factionname: The Merry Men
Password: merrymen
Email: example@...

also described at

http://www.arno-saxena.de/atlantis/atl_register.php

greetings
   Arno
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oops, forgot the time:
today at 2200 MET I'll start the new game
   Arno

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