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#169 From: "nrgrmss" <nrgrmss@...>
Date: Sun Aug 9, 2009 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: Terra Incognita Adventures
nrgrmss
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The link has changed:

http://griffonpub.home.att.net/NESys.html


--- In TIrpg@yahoogroups.com, "J. Tim" <jtloud@...> wrote:
>
> Cross-posted to the TI Yahoo group
>
> http://www.destinyrealms.com/griffon/NESys.html
>
> This is a link to the ANY-SYSTEM KEY, a system used to describe skills and
task
> difficulties for characters that can be translated into many different game
systems.
>
> For example, you can describe characters with Competent Skills as having Fair
trait
> levels; Expert Skills as Good; Signature skills as Great.
>
> Henchmen get no Signature skills, and only one expert skill; Bosses get normal
skill
> levels in all three, and Masterminds have all their skills boosted by one
level.
> A signature skill would be Superb!
>
> Equipment is listed as simply "leather armor, sword". You could list that
> as +2 armor and +2 (or more) sword.
>
> http://www.destinyrealms.com/griffon/NESys.html
>
> Over on the Free Stuff link are several adventures to set up the ANY-SYSTEM
> KEY conversion you have done for Fudge.
>
> There are several pulp Egypt adventures that go well with Terra Incognita. The
> adventures are more modern, but they could be a close match to the adventure
> "We're Archeologists, Not Grave Robbers" adventure in the Files section (the
> Files section either here on this group, or the new FudgeCommunity Yahoo
goup).
>
> http://www.destinyrealms.com/griffon/free.html
>
>
> These links have been posted before in the TI group. My appolgies for the
double-post.
>
> -J.Tim
>

#167 From: "nrgrmss" <nrgrmss@...>
Date: Sun Aug 9, 2009 3:36 pm
Subject: Alternative dice method
nrgrmss
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Some gamers find Fudge dice too strange or don't want to mark up their dice, or
whatever.......


Dice: If you don't have Fudge Dice, you can instead use 2d6, each of them a
different color, such as white die (positive) and a red die (negative). One die
represents pluses, the other minuses. Subtract the positive die from the
negative die to get a result. For example, if the positive die reads 4 and the
negative die reads 3, the result is +1. If the positive die reads 2 and the
negative die reads 6, the result is -4. If both dice show the same number, the
result is 0.

This does allow +5 and -5 results, which 4dF does not, and it has more variation
in results (although a sharper curve) as you are rolling only 2 dice instead of
4, but it may be faster and easier to use than trying to figure out the result
of 4d6 that are not marked as Fudge dice.

You can treat + or - 5 as a critical roll or just re-roll.

#166 From: "J. Tim" <jtloud@...>
Date: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:13 pm
Subject: Terra Incognita Adventures
wabr1970
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Cross-posted to the TI Yahoo group

http://www.destinyrealms.com/griffon/NESys.html

This is a link to the ANY-SYSTEM KEY, a system used to describe skills and task
difficulties for characters that can be translated into many different game
systems.

For example, you can describe characters with Competent Skills as having Fair
trait
levels; Expert Skills as Good; Signature skills as Great.

Henchmen get no Signature skills, and only one expert skill; Bosses get normal
skill
levels in all three, and Masterminds have all their skills boosted by one level.
A signature skill would be Superb!

Equipment is listed as simply "leather armor, sword". You could list that
as +2 armor and +2 (or more) sword.

http://www.destinyrealms.com/griffon/NESys.html

Over on the Free Stuff link are several adventures to set up the ANY-SYSTEM
KEY conversion you have done for Fudge.

There are several pulp Egypt adventures that go well with Terra Incognita. The
adventures are more modern, but they could be a close match to the adventure
"We're Archeologists, Not Grave Robbers" adventure in the Files section (the
Files section either here on this group, or the new FudgeCommunity Yahoo goup).

http://www.destinyrealms.com/griffon/free.html


These links have been posted before in the TI group. My appolgies for the
double-post.

-J.Tim

#165 From: "David Crowell" <gpfdavid@...>
Date: Mon Jan 7, 2008 8:55 pm
Subject: Dinosaurs at Ankor wat?
blaen_495
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These might be of interest to the NAGS Society...
 
 
 
 
 
cheers,
 
--dave
Asian World Imports
1168 SH 68
Canton, NY  13617
(315) 714-2119

#164 From: "blaen_495" <gpfdavid@...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:36 am
Subject: Very interesting photos
blaen_495
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http://www.omniology.com/LivingPterodactyls.html
http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0021/3-pterodactyls.jpg

A little something interesting thanks to Cacique Caribe on TMP

cheers,

--dave

#163 From: "Jonathan Wells" <wells.jonathan@...>
Date: Fri Feb 2, 2007 1:24 am
Subject: Mongolian Death Worm!
sarrathos
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Mongolian Death Worms! What more do I have to say?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_Death_Worm

Link from Wigu.

--
Jonathan Wells
wells.jonathan@...
http://strangething.livejournal.com/

#162 From: "Eric Paquette" <paquette7385@...>
Date: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:30 pm
Subject: Re: NAGtech: WWII era
ramachil
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> Maybe if you give a few details about what would be appropriate for the
> adventure,  someone on the list would lend a hand?
>
NAGS sends a team to the Bermuda Triangle to investigate missing ships
during WWII. That's basically what NAGs know when they enter the situation.

Eric

#161 From: Scott Larson <paigescott@...>
Date: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:11 am
Subject: Re: NAGtech: WWII era
paigescott2001
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Eric-

I see, I see. I guess I just intended the other games as inspiration
for WWII era gadgetry. I completely understand not wanting  big
investment for a one off, though.

Maybe if you give a few details about what would be appropriate for the
adventure,  someone on the list would lend a hand?

Also, thank you tremendously for running TI at Cangames!

Take care,

Scott

On Mar 17, 2006, at 8:28 AM, Eric Paquette wrote:

> Thanks for the links.
>  Although I find it strange that you recommend looking in other games
> to get
>  some NAGtech. I would be hoping that this community would work on
> creating
>  stuff.
>  The game is a one-shot for a convention (www.cangames.ca) that I'm
> running
>  this May. So I'm not totally interested in spending money in another
> game.
>  If there was a Terra Incognita book, sure I'd buy it.
>

#160 From: Scott Larson <paigescott@...>
Date: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:06 am
Subject: Re: NAGtech: WWII era
paigescott2001
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Thanks, Shane. The DRM brouhaha must have been what I heard about. I'll
have to look through their catalog and give them a try. I've been
wanting the Gear Krieg rulebook because of the "Random Pulp Adventure
Generator."

Take care,

Scott

>
>
>  I was not the only one that had serious problems so they turned off
> DRM and
>  went to watermarking. At the bottom of each page is a note that
> includes my
>  name. The idea is that if I choose to share my pdf they can track who
> is
>  sharing it and take appropriate action.
>
>  Overall the quality of the pdfs at DriveThruRPG are higher than other
>  locations but the prices are also higher.

#159 From: "Eric Paquette" <paquette7385@...>
Date: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:28 pm
Subject: Re: NAGtech: WWII era
ramachil
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Thanks for the links.
Although I find it strange that you recommend looking in other games to get
some NAGtech. I would be hoping that this community would work on creating
stuff.
The game is a one-shot for a convention (www.cangames.ca) that I'm running
this May. So I'm not totally interested in spending money in another game.
If there was a Terra Incognita book, sure I'd buy it.

Eric

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Larson" <paigescott@...>
To: <TIrpg@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: [TIrpg] NAGtech: WWII era


>
> On Mar 16, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Eric Paquette wrote:
>
>> Anyone have ideas or a website for NAGtech set during World War II?
>>
>>
>
> You may already know this one, but Dream Pod 9's old game Gear Krieg is
> set in an alternate WWII with lots of "high tech" gadgets. The
> Superscience sourcebook is available as a downloadable pdf:
>
> http://www.drivethrurpg.com/catalog/product_info.php?
> cPath=73_132&products_id=1213
>
> I paged through the thing years back and it looked o.k., although I
> will admit I didn't buy it, so that may say something. $9.95 isn't too
> bad, though. Others on the list may be more familiar with it.
>
> Hinterwelt Enterprises also have an alternate WWII game called Shades
> of Earth. It seems to include fantasy elements (magic, elves, and
> such), but the rules are online and there is a section called Artifacts
> and Devices with some relevant items. Unfortunately, the site uses
> frames so I can't get you very close:
>
> http://shades.hinterwelt.com/
>
> Just scroll down a bit and click on Artifacts and Devices.
>
> Finally, I've never even set eyes on the Pinnacle Weird War II stuff,
> but it's all available for purchase and download from DriveThruRPG.
> I've never bought anything from them. If I remember correctly, some
> people didn't like the "watermarking." I'm not even sure what that
> means in the context of a pdf. Of anyone has experience with DriveThru,
> I'd love to hear about it.
>
> http://www.drivethrurpg.com/catalog/index.php?
> manufacturers_id=27&sort=xa&filter_id=168
>
> You may already have known about all this stuff, but I hope it was at
> least marginally helpful.
>
> Good luck, and I'd love to hear about your WWII era games!
>
> Scott

#158 From: "Shane Knysh" <shane.knysh@...>
Date: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:59 pm
Subject: Re: NAGtech: WWII era
shaneknysh
Online Now Online Now
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Greetings,

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:53:00 -0500, Scott Larson wrote
> Finally, I've never even set eyes on the Pinnacle Weird War II stuff,
> but it's all available for purchase and download from DriveThruRPG.
> I've never bought anything from them. If I remember correctly, some
> people didn't like the "watermarking." I'm not even sure what that
> means in the context of a pdf. Of anyone has experience with DriveThru,
> I'd love to hear about it.

I have purchased a few items form DriveThruRPG. The first item was protected
via DRM and was a nightmare. I spent hours on the phone with adobe trying to
get access to my legally purchased pdf. In the end I never actually got the
damn thing openned.

I was not the only one that had serious problems so they turned off DRM and
went to watermarking. At the bottom of each page is a note that includes my
name. The idea is that if I choose to share my pdf they can track who is
sharing it and take appropriate action.

Overall the quality of the pdfs at DriveThruRPG are higher than other
locations but the prices are also higher.

-- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Shane
shane.knysh at YonerDotCom     http://churchofthegame.blogspot.com/

    Join the #Fudge IRC channel at irc.psionics.net

    "If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works,
    the first thing you have on your hands is a non-working cat."
    - Douglas Adams

#157 From: Scott Larson <paigescott@...>
Date: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:53 am
Subject: Re: NAGtech: WWII era
paigescott2001
Offline Offline
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On Mar 16, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Eric Paquette wrote:

> Anyone have ideas or a website for NAGtech set during World War II?
>
>

You may already know this one, but Dream Pod 9's old game Gear Krieg is
set in an alternate WWII with lots of "high tech" gadgets. The
Superscience sourcebook is available as a downloadable pdf:

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/catalog/product_info.php?
cPath=73_132&products_id=1213

I paged through the thing years back and it looked o.k., although I
will admit I didn't buy it, so that may say something. $9.95 isn't too
bad, though. Others on the list may be more familiar with it.

Hinterwelt Enterprises also have an alternate WWII game called Shades
of Earth. It seems to include fantasy elements (magic, elves, and
such), but the rules are online and there is a section called Artifacts
and Devices with some relevant items. Unfortunately, the site uses
frames so I can't get you very close:

http://shades.hinterwelt.com/

Just scroll down a bit and click on Artifacts and Devices.

Finally, I've never even set eyes on the Pinnacle Weird War II stuff,
but it's all available for purchase and download from DriveThruRPG.
I've never bought anything from them. If I remember correctly, some
people didn't like the "watermarking." I'm not even sure what that
means in the context of a pdf. Of anyone has experience with DriveThru,
I'd love to hear about it.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/catalog/index.php?
manufacturers_id=27&sort=xa&filter_id=168

You may already have known about all this stuff, but I hope it was at
least marginally helpful.

Good luck, and I'd love to hear about your WWII era games!

Scott

#156 From: Scott Larson <paigescott@...>
Date: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:27 am
Subject: Re: Chambers's Encyclopedia of Universal Knowledge
paigescott2001
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Many thanks, Jonathan. Looks interesting.

I remember once, a few years back, I started bidding on Ebay on a
complete set of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica, which is apparently
an iconic edition. When it reached about $100 and I was in the lead, I
naively started rubbing my hands together and thinking about where I
would store the monster. Well, needless to say, people started in and
the thing sold for closer to $1000. There is an online version, though,
with is riddled with typos from scanning, but still well worth the
time:

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/

Thanks again for sending the link!

Scott

On Mar 16, 2006, at 11:23 PM, Jonathan Wells wrote:

> A Victorian-era encyclopedia. Might be a source of inspiration.
>
> http://feeds.feedburner.com/vickipedia
>

#155 From: "Jonathan Wells" <wells.jonathan@...>
Date: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:23 am
Subject: Chambers's Encyclopedia of Universal Knowledge
sarrathos
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A Victorian-era encyclopedia. Might be a source of inspiration.

http://feeds.feedburner.com/vickipedia

--
Jonathan Wells
wells.jonathan@...
jonathanwells@...

#154 From: "Eric Paquette" <paquette7385@...>
Date: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:05 am
Subject: NAGtech: WWII era
ramachil
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Anyone have ideas or a website for NAGtech set during World War II?

#153 From: "David & Robin" <gpfarm@...>
Date: Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:35 pm
Subject: FW: [ColonialWars] Re: Scenario anyone...?
blaen_495
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

An actual aeronef perhaps?

 

Cheers,

 

--dave

 


From: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Hall
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:55 AM
To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ColonialWars] Re: Scenario anyone...?

 

Interestingly enough, this ship was sited around the country. It
appeared in Illinois on April 3, and was witnessed by 500 residents
hovering around Evanston Ill. for more than 45 minutes. A photo was
taken of it by a newsdealer, Walter McCann. He gave copies to all the
Chicago newspapers but, alas, they have all disappeared. It was
described as "composed of two cigar shaped bodies attached by girders"
and some said it had wings and sails. It had previously been reporte
in Sacramento Ca. on November 22nd,1896, and the next day in Tacoma,
Wa. and in San Jose Ca. the same day. It was reported in Hastings, NE.
on February 2nd, 1897, and Topeka, KS. on March 27th.

The ship supposedly landed in a field near Springfield and the
occupants, a woman and two men, approached two field hands and told
them they would make a report of their journey to the government "when
Cuba is declared free". The ship made several more landings with
people reporting that the occupants were seen working on machinery,
but left as soon as they were approached. The ship was sighted near
Mt. Vernon by the mayor of the city. He observed it through a
telescope and reported that one of the occupants was hovering outside
the ship with a "device" strapped to his back.

VSF if I ever heard of it. But well reported by people across the
country and although it could be a form of mass hysteria, there must
be something to it. The book Weird Illinois has more of the story.





--- In ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com, "Gabriel Landowski"
<gabriel_landowski@y...> wrote:
>
> http://www.rense.com/general3/aurora.htm
>






#152 From: "David & Robin" <gpfarm@...>
Date: Mon Jan 9, 2006 11:23 pm
Subject: Aeronef pdf edition
blaen_495
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For those of you who might not have heard:  both Aeronef and the Aeronef Captain’s Handbook are now available from  http://www.wargamingonline.com/catalog/index.php

 

Also available are Iron Stars and IS: The Merchant Wars.  MJ12 games also has the first in a series of anthologies of VSF period fiction. This one features HG Wells. http://www.mj12games.com/

 

Cheers,

 

--dave


#151 From: "David & Robin" <gpfarm@...>
Date: Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:47 pm
Subject: Merry Christmas
blaen_495
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Happy Christmas to my fellow NAGS.

 

Cheers,

 

--dave


#150 From: "David & Robin" <gpfarm@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 11:52 pm
Subject: Mayan Pyramid
blaen_495
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David Kuijt (pronounced like Kite) who is best known in DBA wargaming circles has posted the following page on how he constructed a model Mayan Pyramid. He also has a page on constructing a smaller Aztec pyramid, and lots of other neat stuff.  

 

http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/dba105/Castillo/Castillo.html

 

Cheers,

 

--dave


#149 From: "David & Robin" <gpfarm@...>
Date: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:31 am
Subject: RE: Terra Incognita - Major map archive!
blaen_495
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Thank you for this little resource.

 

Cheers,

 

--dave

 


From: TIrpg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TIrpg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dirk Collins
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 2:34 PM
To: Scott Larson
Cc: TIrpg@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TIrpg] Terra Incognita - Major map archive!

 

Morning Scott,

Found this gem this morning while surfing the net. Many dozens of
good maps suited for TI games.

http://www.hipkiss.org/data/maps.html

With Regards,
Dirk


#148 From: Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@...>
Date: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:33 pm
Subject: Terra Incognita - Major map archive!
res04tzu
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Morning Scott,

Found this gem this morning while surfing the net. Many dozens of
good maps suited for TI games.

http://www.hipkiss.org/data/maps.html

With Regards,
Dirk

#147 From: Peter <pdwmcdonald@...>
Date: Sat May 28, 2005 9:45 pm
Subject: By appointment of her Majesty
pdwmcdonald
Offline Offline
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In my world, Queen Victoria has given permission to NAGS in Great Britain and her Colonies to use the word "Royal" as a reward to service to the realm.
 
So now in my world the organization will be refered to as RAGS.
 
Cue: waving Union Jacks and a band playing Land of Hope and Glory and God Save the Queen.
 
Peter

 

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


#146 From: Peter <pdwmcdonald@...>
Date: Sat May 28, 2005 9:40 pm
Subject: Re: Converting TI
pdwmcdonald
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Thanks for the offer for Scott, if I can put my notes into a readable form. I'll post them to the files section.
 
Peter

Scott Larson <paigescott@...> wrote:
Peter:

Thanks for posting to the group.

I know that William Littlefield, editor of the Savage Worlds fanzine
Shark Bytes (www.sharkbytes.info) received permission from Ann Dupuis
awhile back to do a Terra Incognita/Savage Worlds conversion, but to
the best of my knowledge that has not yet seen the light of day.

I didn't know about GASLIGHT when I wrote Terra Incognita, but now of
course I'm a fan. I think the original rules and Adventures and
Expeditions are a perfect match for the NAGS Society. I wish I'd
thought of that newsman experience system;-- inspired genius, that! And
of course, the Start and Sustain rolls work perfectly for NagTech
devices. Just come up with few entertaining glitches that result from
failed Sustains, perhaps increasing in severity according to how badly
you miss the roll, and you're in business.

If you put together any notes on your conversion, I'm sure you're
welcome to post them here to the group.

Thanks for taking the time to post,

Sincerely,

Scott

On May 26, 2005, at 1:51 AM, Peter wrote:

> Hello,
>  
> I new to the list and this is my first post. I like the setting for
> TI. But I'm not a fan of FUDGE so I have converted TI to be used with
> Adventures & Expeditions by G.A.S.L.I.G.H.T.
>  
> Has anyone else tried their NAGS with different rules?
>  
> Peter

__________________________________________________
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#145 From: Scott Larson <paigescott@...>
Date: Fri May 27, 2005 10:27 am
Subject: Re: Converting TI
paigescott2001
Offline Offline
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Peter:

Thanks for posting to the group.

I know that William Littlefield, editor of the Savage Worlds fanzine
Shark Bytes (www.sharkbytes.info) received permission from Ann Dupuis
awhile back to do a Terra Incognita/Savage Worlds conversion, but to
the best of my knowledge that has not yet seen the light of day.

I didn't know about GASLIGHT when I wrote Terra Incognita, but now of
course I'm a fan. I think the original rules and Adventures and
Expeditions are a perfect match for the NAGS Society. I wish I'd
thought of that newsman experience system;-- inspired genius, that! And
of course, the Start and Sustain rolls work perfectly for NagTech
devices. Just come up with few entertaining glitches that result from
failed Sustains, perhaps increasing in severity according to how badly
you miss the roll, and you're in business.

If you put together any notes on your conversion, I'm sure you're
welcome to post them here to the group.

Thanks for taking the time to post,

Sincerely,

Scott

On May 26, 2005, at 1:51 AM, Peter wrote:

> Hello,
>  
> I new to the list and this is my first post. I like the setting for
> TI. But I'm not a fan of FUDGE so I have converted TI to be used with
> Adventures & Expeditions by G.A.S.L.I.G.H.T.
>  
> Has anyone else tried their NAGS with different rules?
>  
> Peter

#144 From: Peter <pdwmcdonald@...>
Date: Thu May 26, 2005 5:51 am
Subject: Converting TI
pdwmcdonald
Offline Offline
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Hello,
 
I new to the list and this is my first post. I like the setting for TI. But I'm not a fan of FUDGE so I have converted TI to be used with Adventures & Expeditions by G.A.S.L.I.G.H.T.
 
Has anyone else tried their NAGS with different rules?
 
Peter

 



Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

#143 From: "blaen_495" <gpfarm@...>
Date: Mon May 23, 2005 6:39 pm
Subject: Welcome
blaen_495
Offline Offline
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Welcome to our new members. This group is often quite, but feel freee
to jump in and post on any TI related subject.

If anyone made it to the TI game at Cangames I would love to hear a
review. I played in last year's TI game there but did not make it this
year.  I am close enough to Ottawa that a link up with other TI fans
there would be possible.

cheers,

--dave

#142 From: "David & Robin" <gpfarm@...>
Date: Thu May 19, 2005 1:15 am
Subject: TI at CanGames
blaen_495
Offline Offline
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There is  a Terra Incognita Game on the Schedule at CanGames in Ottawa Ontario.  A nice little gaming con.

 

Yours truly is running a Trojan War game there.

 

http://www.cangames.ca/

 

cheers,

 

--dave


#141 From: "David & Robin" <gpfarm@...>
Date: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:08 am
Subject: Bigfoot! Film at 11.
blaen_495
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Bigfoot has been filmed in Manitoba. Alas our internet server at the office is down so I can’t provide more info than that.

 

Cheers,

 

--dave

 


#140 From: "David & Robin" <gpfarm@...>
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:05 am
Subject: One for the Green Preservationists
blaen_495
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Jurassic Park here we come...

 

Cheers,

 

--dave

 


From: jpisc98357@... [mailto:jpisc98357@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 11:16 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: [AncientWeapons] Check out The New York Times > Science > Tissue Find Offers New Look Into Din

 

Click here: The New York Times > Science > Tissue Find Offers New Look Into Dinosaurs' Lives
Tissue Find Offers New Look Into Dinosaurs' Lives
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
live as dinosaurs may seem to children, knowledge of them as living creatures is limited almost entirely to what can be learned from bones that have long since turned to stony fossils. Their soft tissues, when rarely recovered, have lost their original revealing form.

A 70-million-year-old Tyrannosaurus rex recently discovered in Montana, scientists reported today, has apparently yielded the improbable: soft tissues, including blood vessels and possibly cells, that "retain some of their original flexibility, elasticity and resilience."

In a paper being published on Friday in the journal Science, the discovery team said that the remarkable preservation of the tissue might open up "avenues for studying dinosaur physiology and perhaps some aspects of their biochemistry."

"Tissue preservation to this extent has not been noted before in dinosaurs," the team leader, Dr. Mary H. Schweitzer of North Carolina State University, said in a teleconference on Tuesday.

The scientists said that an examination with a scanning electron microscope showed the dinosaur blood vessels to be "virtually indistinguishable" from those recovered from ostrich bones. The ostrich is today's largest bird, and many paleontologists think birds are living descendants of some dinosaurs.

Dr. Schweitzer and other scientists not connected with the research cautioned that further analysis of the specimens was required before they could be sure the tissues had indeed survived unaltered. They said the extraction of DNA for studies of dinosaur genetics and cloning experiments was only a long shot.

But in a separate article in Science, Dr. Lawrence Witmer, a paleontologist at Ohio University, who had no part in the research, said: "If we have tissues that are not fossilized, then we can potentially extract DNA. It's very exciting."

If the tissues are as well preserved as they seem, the scientists held out some hope of recovering intact proteins, which are less fragile and more abundant DNA. Proteins might provide clues to the evolutionary relationship of dinosaurs to other animals and possibly help solve the puzzle of dinosaur physiology: whether, as argued, dinosaurs were unlike other reptiles in being warm-blooded.

"If we can isolate certain proteins, we can address the issue of the physiology of dinosaurs," Dr. Schweitzer said.

Excavations of dinosaur remains sometimes turn up preserved tissues other than bone, such as feathers, embryonic fragments and internal organs. But as Dr. Schweitzer's group noted, in those cases their shapes may be replicated but their original composition is not preserved "as still soft, pliable tissues."

The scientists said it was usually difficult to determine what such modified tissues were like in life if the fossils are more than a few million years old. The last of the dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago.

The T. rex with the soft tissue was found in 2003 by a fossil-hunting team led by John R. Horner, a paleontologist with the Museum of the Rockies at Montana State University. Mr. Horner is a co-author of the journal report, along with Jennifer L. Wittmeyer of North Carolina State and Jan K. Toporski of the Carnegie Institution of Washington.

The trials of fieldwork led to the discovery of soft tissue inside a thigh bone.

Geologically, the T. rex skeleton was excavated from the Hell Creek Formation, in sandstone laid down about 70 million years ago. Geographically, this was deep in a remote corner of the Charles M. Russell Refuge, in Montana. The only way to get the heavy fossils out was by helicopter.

Tyrannosaurs were famously huge predators. This one, estimated to have been 18 years old at death, was not as large as most. Its femur, or thigh bone, was 3 ½ feet long; some T-rex femurs are at least a foot longer. But the creature was large enough so that some of the rock-encased long bones had to be broken in half to fit a helicopter rig - not a thing paleontologists like to do.

At the laboratory in Bozeman, scientists inspected the broken thigh bone before preparators would have applied preserving chemicals, which would have contaminated the specimen. Inside the dense bone, Dr. Schweitzer and colleagues noticed unusual tissue fragments lining the marrow cavity. Fossilization had not been complete.

When fossilizing mineral deposits in the tissues were dissolved by a weak acid, the scientists were left with stretchy material threaded with what looked like tiny blood vessels. Further examination revealed reddish brown dots that the scientists said looked like the nuclei of cells lining the blood vessels.

Dr. Schweitzer said it was too early to draw any definitive conclusions about the lives of dinosaurs based on the laboratory analysis so far. "We are still in the process of analyzing the microstructures of these tissues," she said.

Mr. Horner said the discovery was likely to alter both the field and laboratory work of dinosaur scientists. Each limb bone will be handled as a possible repository of tissues bearing on what it was like to be a living tyrannosaur, down to its tiniest blood vessels.







#139 From: "David & Robin" <gpfarm@...>
Date: Tue Feb 1, 2005 5:25 pm
Subject: FW: [AncientWeapons] Check out BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Gilgamesh tomb believed found
blaen_495
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This sounds interesting....

 


From: jpisc98357@... [mailto:jpisc98357@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 11:38 AM
To: neareasternarchaeology@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AncientWeapons] Check out BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Gilgamesh tomb believed found

 

Click here: BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Gilgamesh tomb believed found
Gilgamesh tomb believed found
Archaeologists in Iraq believe they may have found the lost tomb of King Gilgamesh - the subject of the oldest "book" in history.

Gilgamesh was believed to be two-thirds god, one-third human

The Epic Of Gilgamesh - written by a Middle Eastern scholar 2,500 years before the birth of Christ - commemorated the life of the ruler of the city of Uruk, from which Iraq gets its name.

Now, a German-led expedition has discovered what is thought to be the entire city of Uruk - including, where the Euphrates once flowed, the last resting place of its famous King.

"I don't want to say definitely it was the grave of King Gilgamesh, but it looks very similar to that described in the epic," Jorg Fassbinder, of the Bavarian department of Historical Monuments in Munich, told the BBC World Service's Science in Action programme.

Magnetic

In the book - actually a set of inscribed clay tablets - Gilgamesh was described as having been buried under the Euphrates, in a tomb apparently constructed when the waters of the ancient river parted following his death.

"We found just outside the city an area in the middle of the former Euphrates river¿ the remains of such a building which could be interpreted as a burial," Mr Fassbinder said.

Who can compare with him in kingliness? Who can say, like Gilgamesh, I am king?

The Epic Of Gilgamesh

He said the amazing discovery of the ancient city under the Iraqi desert had been made possible by modern technology.

"By differences in magnetisation in the soil, you can look into the ground," Mr Fassbinder added.

"The difference between mudbricks and sediments in the Euphrates river gives a very detailed structure."

This creates a magnetogram, which is then digitally mapped, effectively giving a town plan of Uruk.

'Venice in the desert'

"The most surprising thing was that we found structures already described by Gilgamesh," Mr Fassbinder stated.


"We covered more than 100 hectares. We have found garden structures and field structures as described in the epic, and we found Babylonian houses."

But he said the most astonishing find was an incredibly sophisticated system of canals.

"Very clearly, we can see in the canals some structures showing that flooding destroyed some houses, which means it was a highly developed system.

"[It was] like Venice in the desert."





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