Gary and Crew,

I would like to point out as "Doc" pointed out that I too run a tournament
with comp.  I definitely feel that comp is important and for several years
have yet to figure out why GW went so far to drop it. But hey that is why GW
is probably stopping GT's as a whole.  It is a shambles.  I am extremely
happy that another group is stepping forward and trying to keep the Northern
California gaming community going. Kudos to all and I hope you have a very
successful event.


Sincerely,
Troy Gann

-----Original Message-----
From: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Lane
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 9:59 AM
To: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [SacCapitalPunishment] Re: Questions

Hey Steve,

I agree with you. Designing a comp system is more an art than technical
exercise and will always show a bias one way or another based on what the
organizers want to see in an army. The comp system we came up with was the
collaboration of five people and went from considering using the RT comp to
a longer list that was skimmed down. Everything on the list was voted on by
the five organizers and the ones that got three or more votes was included
and then tweaked. None of the five organizers got everything they voted for,
the most any judge got of his fifteen was nine, which indicates that no one
agrees completely on comp. In fact only five items got votes from all five
judges :-) What we aimed for was not letting people come in with armies that
contained, for example, two monoliths and a C'tan, and still get perfect
comp (by the way, I play Necrons). This was an example of an army that was
most complained about at the last GW L.A. GT. A player is still welcome to
play such an army, and will probably get a fantastic battle score, but the
army does not deserve a perfect comp (IMHO) when compared to other armies
that the Necron player could field.

That being the case, I think it came out ok based on the armies I have seen
being created. I was concerned about someone finding a way to totally abuse
the comp rules and come up with a completely obscene army and I am so far
happy to report that has not occurred. After player input from the
tournament we will tweak the comp system for next year and hopefully make it
better (although some people will be extremely unhappy with any changes
:-)).

For this year's event we will not be changing the comp list. It was decided
that once it was posted on the website it was official and we would stick
with it, good or bad. So players can create their army without fear of last
minute changes.

I would also like to point out that some people get too worked up over the
comp score. A player does not have to get a perfect comp, and in fact, very
few will. When you consider the scoring for the tournament, getting perfect
comp is not necessary. And there is also the fact that you can get back comp
points for having a great theme. The scoring for the tournament is weighted
as follows:

Battle 100 pts
Sport  50 pts
Paint  30 pts
Comp   30 pts (with up to an additional 5 bonus points for theme)

With this weighting, a player can come in with a 20 comp and still get 95%
of all possible points if they max out the other areas. So please don't
consider a max comp as a must to win as it is not.

We really appreciate your input and support Steve and with players like you
to get us through our first year we can only make the event better next
year.

Gary





Yahoo! Groups Links

Thank you DOC!!!! Like you, I want to see NORTHERN CALIFORNIA events and I
want quality events. We can only make this event work if all Northern
California players want to make it work. Without support from the Bay Area
players this event will not take place next year and that would only be a
lose to us Northern California players.

And I promise you, player input will have a huge impact on what we change
for next year.

Thanks,
Gary

PS The SAWS Challenge was fantastic this year. It was probably the best
fantasy tournament I have been too. Sorry you couldn't make it :-(

PPS 5 kids? OMG you are a mad man! One is enough for me :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doc Dragon
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:47 AM
To: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SacCapitalPunishment] Comp, what's the big issue?

Hey Y'all,

While I will admit it is an interesting and different
comp system, if we as a gaming community are going to
have some large 40K events in the area each year we
must all get together to try and make it that way.

Troy & the gang from the east bay run a fabulous
tournament at Kubla Con each year.

Now the kids from Sacramento are trying to give us a
2nd GT style tournament.  I would suggest that we all
play and the we spread the word for all to come play.
Once that is done, then we can have a general
discussion about what can be changed to make it
better.  That is the way things work, that is what
will make all, (er well most) enjoy the games and have
fun.

If comp is your big hang-up I would refer you to the
SAWS comp list for Fantasy.  Although I could not make
this years event because of family issues if I had
gone (and I was signed up to go before I needed to
back out) I would have needed to bring one of my 2
armies.  The first, wood elves would of only scored 7
out of 15 comp.  And the 2nd my Chaos would have only
got 5 out of 15.  My armies were built to be fair,
balanced and fun.  But sometimes my idea of fair
dosen't meet with others.

This dosen't change the fact it would have been FUN.
After all we are all just big kids playing with little
toy solders.

Now, Once the Sacto Punishment is done I will make my
suggestions on how it can be better.  YOU should do
the same.  Play, have fun, make suggestions.

ok, I've only had 3 hours sleep and if this sound more
as a mad man tell the government to stick-it sorry.
But I for one really wish to see events like this
succeed.  And put a big raspberry to GW and there lack
of tournament support in our area.

OK, Off my box, back to dealing with my 5 kids......

Doc




__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com




Yahoo! Groups Links

Hey Steve,

I agree with you. Designing a comp system is more an art than technical
exercise and will always show a bias one way or another based on what the
organizers want to see in an army. The comp system we came up with was the
collaboration of five people and went from considering using the RT comp to
a longer list that was skimmed down. Everything on the list was voted on by
the five organizers and the ones that got three or more votes was included
and then tweaked. None of the five organizers got everything they voted for,
the most any judge got of his fifteen was nine, which indicates that no one
agrees completely on comp. In fact only five items got votes from all five
judges :-) What we aimed for was not letting people come in with armies that
contained, for example, two monoliths and a C'tan, and still get perfect
comp (by the way, I play Necrons). This was an example of an army that was
most complained about at the last GW L.A. GT. A player is still welcome to
play such an army, and will probably get a fantastic battle score, but the
army does not deserve a perfect comp (IMHO) when compared to other armies
that the Necron player could field.

That being the case, I think it came out ok based on the armies I have seen
being created. I was concerned about someone finding a way to totally abuse
the comp rules and come up with a completely obscene army and I am so far
happy to report that has not occurred. After player input from the
tournament we will tweak the comp system for next year and hopefully make it
better (although some people will be extremely unhappy with any changes
:-)).

For this year's event we will not be changing the comp list. It was decided
that once it was posted on the website it was official and we would stick
with it, good or bad. So players can create their army without fear of last
minute changes.

I would also like to point out that some people get too worked up over the
comp score. A player does not have to get a perfect comp, and in fact, very
few will. When you consider the scoring for the tournament, getting perfect
comp is not necessary. And there is also the fact that you can get back comp
points for having a great theme. The scoring for the tournament is weighted
as follows:

Battle 100 pts
Sport  50 pts
Paint  30 pts
Comp   30 pts (with up to an additional 5 bonus points for theme)

With this weighting, a player can come in with a 20 comp and still get 95%
of all possible points if they max out the other areas. So please don't
consider a max comp as a must to win as it is not.

We really appreciate your input and support Steve and with players like you
to get us through our first year we can only make the event better next
year.

Gary

Hey Y'all,

While I will admit it is an interesting and different
comp system, if we as a gaming community are going to
have some large 40K events in the area each year we
must all get together to try and make it that way.

Troy & the gang from the east bay run a fabulous
tournament at Kubla Con each year.

Now the kids from Sacramento are trying to give us a
2nd GT style tournament.  I would suggest that we all
play and the we spread the word for all to come play.
Once that is done, then we can have a general
discussion about what can be changed to make it
better.  That is the way things work, that is what
will make all, (er well most) enjoy the games and have
fun.

If comp is your big hang-up I would refer you to the
SAWS comp list for Fantasy.  Although I could not make
this years event because of family issues if I had
gone (and I was signed up to go before I needed to
back out) I would have needed to bring one of my 2
armies.  The first, wood elves would of only scored 7
out of 15 comp.  And the 2nd my Chaos would have only
got 5 out of 15.  My armies were built to be fair,
balanced and fun.  But sometimes my idea of fair
dosen't meet with others.

This dosen't change the fact it would have been FUN.
After all we are all just big kids playing with little
toy solders.

Now, Once the Sacto Punishment is done I will make my
suggestions on how it can be better.  YOU should do
the same.  Play, have fun, make suggestions.

ok, I've only had 3 hours sleep and if this sound more
as a mad man tell the government to stick-it sorry.
But I for one really wish to see events like this
succeed.  And put a big raspberry to GW and there lack
of tournament support in our area.

OK, Off my box, back to dealing with my 5 kids......

Doc




__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- In SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy Hixon"
<hixont@c...> wrote:
> Playing the devil's advocate:  Every professional sport has rules
> that govern "fair play", what is so wrong with a set of fair play
> (AKA Composition) rules/scoring in a tournament?

Actually, I prefer a comp system of some type. I'm going to play a
100% comp compliant list. Unless some major changes are in the works.

Where this system is understandable from a technical view, it seems to
delve into attempting to comp score things, that if you go 100%
compliant, will fundamentally change the nature of some armies into
something that isn't even what the codex "fluff" says the army should be.

For a first attempt at coming up with a comp system, it is very
detailed off the bat, whereas keeping it simple might have been
better, then adding detail in subsequent years. Right now I think a
lot of un-intended consequences will result from an overly detailed
comp system. A lot of "cheese" is being penalized, but other less
smelly stuff, that is more subtle but just as devastating in effect,
will slip through.


Just my 2 cents,

Steve Fox

Tim,

            Sorry to hear that.  But with those comp rules I will stay in the Bay Area that weekend rather than visit my parents and play in the tournament.

 

 

Troy

 

---

From: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hixon, Timothy
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 4:53 PM
To: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [SacCapitalPunishment] Re: Questions

 

True, I’ve never experienced the problem as a fantasy player in any tournament; however I have played 40K in Bay Area tournaments and won’t do it again (where I have had bad experiences).  I’ve heard (as opposed to personally experienced) that the 40K side has more of a problem with player rated scoring issues.  A lot of players have a serious problem with score fiddling (averaging) and it’s something I would recommend shying away from.

 

Neither SAWS-CHALLENGE had a problem with player “tanking” scores as I recall.  

 

Tim

BTW - I was supposed put in a smiley on that first sentence.

 

---

From: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Hiatt

Tim,
You have played in "our neck of the woods" and as far
as I know you didn't have problems with this and this
was something that didn't really need to be discussed.
However this has been an issue at GT's. Based on the
fact that you are making this and Indy GT. I feel that
it is something that should be considered. To solve
the score problems here is an idea, Throw out the high
and low score add them up divide by three multiply by
5 and go from there. If everybody is being fair with
their scoring there should be no difference but if you
have folks tanking people to benifit themselves or
their buddies then this will correct that.





> ====================
> I think I don't want to play in your neck of the
> woods if that's a
> common problem out there.  The problem here is that
> you will be
> creating a system whereby only three scores are
> counted in a system
> that assumes 5.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
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>
>



     
           
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

 

I will not play in any no holds barred 40K tournaments myself.  I'm
not fond of the fantasy versions either, but at least I enjoy the
game enough to keep playing despite the "only winning is important"
players.  I've played a lot of great games at the Golden Giant WHFB
tournament and met some really great players at that tournament over
the years.  That's what keeps me coming back.  I've played a few
less enjoyable games in that venue as well, but thankfully they're
much rarer occurances and usually only on the winners track.

For what it's worth I'm not fond of Comp Systems either, but I have
yet to see any better ideas.  We have a difference in preferred
playing styles and I don't disagree with your opinion one bit, if
it's not how you like to play, then by all means vote with your
feet.  That's what I've done.

Playing the devil's advocate:  Every professional sport has rules
that govern "fair play", what is so wrong with a set of fair play
(AKA Composition) rules/scoring in a tournament?

Tim

--- In SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com, "Clinton T. Gann"
<clinton.gann@c...> wrote:
>
> Tim,
>
>             Sorry to hear that.  But with those comp rules I will
stay in
> the Bay Area that weekend rather than visit my parents and play in
the
> tournament.
>
> Troy
>   _____
>
> From: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hixon,
Timothy
>
> True, I've never experienced the problem as a fantasy player in any
> tournament; however I have played 40K in Bay Area tournaments and
won't do
> it again (where I have had bad experiences).  I've heard (as
opposed to
> personally experienced) that the 40K side has more of a problem
with player
> rated scoring issues.  A lot of players have a serious problem
with score
> fiddling (averaging) and it's something I would recommend shying
away from.
>
>
>
> Neither SAWS-CHALLENGE had a problem with player "tanking" scores
as I
> recall.
>
>
>
> Tim
>
> BTW - I was supposed put in a smiley on that first sentence.
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Hiatt
>
> Tim,
> You have played in "our neck of the woods" and as far
> as I know you didn't have problems with this and this
> was something that didn't really need to be discussed.
> However this has been an issue at GT's. Based on the
> fact that you are making this and Indy GT. I feel that
> it is something that should be considered. To solve
> the score problems here is an idea, Throw out the high
> and low score add them up divide by three multiply by
> 5 and go from there. If everybody is being fair with
> their scoring there should be no difference but if you
> have folks tanking people to benifit themselves or
> their buddies then this will correct that.
>
>
>
>
>
> > ====================
> > I think I don't want to play in your neck of the
> > woods if that's a
> > common problem out there.  The problem here is that
> > you will be
> > creating a system whereby only three scores are
> > counted in a system
> > that assumes 5.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make
> > Yahoo! your home page
> >
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JMSolB/TM
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SacCapitalPunishment/
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> >     SacCapitalPunishment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
>
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Tim,
You have played in "our neck of the woods" and as far
as I know you didn't have problems with this and this
was something that didn't really need to be discussed.
However this has been an issue at GT's. Based on the
fact that you are making this and Indy GT. I feel that
it is something that should be considered. To solve
the score problems here is an idea, Throw out the high
and low score add them up divide by three multiply by
5 and go from there. If everybody is being fair with
their scoring there should be no difference but if you
have folks tanking people to benifit themselves or
their buddies then this will correct that.





> ====================
> I think I don't want to play in your neck of the
> woods if that's a
> common problem out there. The problem here is that
> you will be
> creating a system whereby only three scores are
> counted in a system
> that assumes 5.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make
> Yahoo! your home page
>
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>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SacCapitalPunishment/
>
> SacCapitalPunishment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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Tim,
You have played in "our neck of the woods" and as far
as I know you didn't have problems with this and this
was something that didn't really need to be discussed.
However this has been an issue at GT's. Based on the
fact that you are making this and Indy GT. I feel that
it is something that should be considered. To solve
the score problems here is an idea, Throw out the high
and low score add them up divide by three multiply by
5 and go from there. If everybody is being fair with
their scoring there should be no difference but if you
have folks tanking people to benifit themselves or
their buddies then this will correct that.





> ====================
> I think I don't want to play in your neck of the
> woods if that's a
> common problem out there.  The problem here is that
> you will be
> creating a system whereby only three scores are
> counted in a system
> that assumes 5.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make
> Yahoo! your home page
>
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JMSolB/TM
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SacCapitalPunishment/
>
>     SacCapitalPunishment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- In SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Hiatt"
> One thing to give some thought about here is beeing that this is a
> five game tournament you get a pretty good idea of who is plying
nice
> and who isn't on thing that you might want to think about here is
> throwing out the highest and the lowest scores that player get over
> the weekend. It will go along way to eliminating the problem of
> friends giving each other great score and tanking people who are not
> friends.
>
====================
I think I don't want to play in your neck of the woods if that's a
common problem out there.  The problem here is that you will be
creating a system whereby only three scores are counted in a system
that assumes 5.

Tim

The list of all rules will go up early next week when Ananda returns. Sorry
for the delay, but it was here anniversary and I couldn't persuade her from
leaving :-) As one of the organizers, we need her back to finalize some
rules decisions.

Gary

PS I am fairly certain VDR, Allies and Imperial armor units will not be
allowed. Forge World models will be fine as long as they are allowed units.

-----Original Message-----
From: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Hiatt
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 12:54 AM
To: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SacCapitalPunishment] List of Armies that can be played at the
tournament?

Is there a list of Armies that are allowed to be used at tournament?

Also Will VDR be allowed?

Will Forgeworld units be allowed?









Yahoo! Groups Links

I will need to read that section and talk to the other organizers.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Hiatt
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 12:34 AM
To: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SacCapitalPunishment] Re: Marks of Chaos

So, With this would this count for Imperial Guard "Special Equipment
in the Doctrines section in the Guard Codex (pg 57)?

--- In SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com, Gary Lane <Gartl1@P...>
wrote:
>
> Yes they will count against wargear for our purposes. This includes
psychic abilities for Eldar even though they are not
considered "wargear". We realize this is harder on some armies, but
the idea was for encourage players to go with basic units rather than
upgraded units. Thus, standard Chaos Marines will have no additional
cost, troops with the Mark of Chaos Undivided will cost an additional
point per troop and other Marks will cost more and those marks will
count against the 10% limit. This was intended and it would actually
be something of a surprise to see an army of Chaos without any Marks
(first one I would have ever seen :-)). As I state on the comp sheet,
I expect the average comp to be 24-26 as there are some things
players will not give up and the army lists I have seen so far has
proven this to be true. I am happy to say the armies I have seen so
far are very reasonable. My Necron army that does very well on comp
only gets a 22 under our system, but with some minor
>  tweeking I can get a 26. I won't get any higher than this, but I
think a 26 is a fair comp for an army that wins most of its battles.








Yahoo! Groups Links

My opinion with this is that it should be the judges and the judges
only that decide the painting scores. There is always the chance that
you will run into an opponent that lost the game and will take out
his (or her) fustration on the score they give you army. If you want
players to have a say in this that is what the players choice award
is for
---------------
I agree with you and thanks for sharing your thoughts. I will make sure
Ananda knows what all expressed views are.


One thing to give some thought about here is beeing that this is a
five game tournament you get a pretty good idea of who is plying nice
and who isn't on thing that you might want to think about here is
throwing out the highest and the lowest scores that player get over
the weekend. It will go along way to eliminating the problem of
friends giving each other great score and tanking people who are not
friends.
----------------
I like that idea a lot and will share it with the other organizers.

Thanks,
Gary

Is there a list of Armies that are allowed to be used at tournament?

Also Will VDR be allowed?

Will Forgeworld units be allowed?

>
>
> Second: Painting: Is painting going to be Judged with
> a score sheet or is it going to be based on what the
> judges are feeling that day. If there is a score sheet
> can it be posted on the site.
> ---------------
> There is a score sheet and Ananda will be posting it when she
returns. She
> is the head paint judge and is designing the check list. Currently
she is
> planning on allowing players to judge half of the paint score and
the judges
> the other half with the check list, but that will be finalized next
week.
> What are people's thoughts on having players judge half of the
paint score?
> Personally, I would just like to go with a checklist, but Ananda
has the
> final say.

My opinion with this is that it should be the judges and the judges
only that decide the painting scores. There is always the chance that
you will run into an opponent that lost the game and will take out
his (or her) fustration on the score they give you army. If you want
players to have a say in this that is what the players choice award
is for

>
>
> Third is sportmanship going to be judged and how is it
> going to be judged.
> ----------------
> Sportsmanship will be judged and will comprise the second most
available
> points (after battle score). We have a rather innovative way of
doing it,
> which is using a paint score-like checklist that each player would
fill out
> after a game. It is more defined items rather than "Was the player
a good
> sport or a dick?".
>

One thing to give some thought about here is beeing that this is a
five game tournament you get a pretty good idea of who is plying nice
and who isn't on thing that you might want to think about here is
throwing out the highest and the lowest scores that player get over
the weekend. It will go along way to eliminating the problem of
friends giving each other great score and tanking people who are not
friends.

So, With this would this count for Imperial Guard "Special Equipment
in the Doctrines section in the Guard Codex (pg 57)?

--- In SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com, Gary Lane <Gartl1@P...>
wrote:
>
> Yes they will count against wargear for our purposes. This includes
psychic abilities for Eldar even though they are not
considered "wargear". We realize this is harder on some armies, but
the idea was for encourage players to go with basic units rather than
upgraded units. Thus, standard Chaos Marines will have no additional
cost, troops with the Mark of Chaos Undivided will cost an additional
point per troop and other Marks will cost more and those marks will
count against the 10% limit. This was intended and it would actually
be something of a surprise to see an army of Chaos without any Marks
(first one I would have ever seen :-)). As I state on the comp sheet,
I expect the average comp to be 24-26 as there are some things
players will not give up and the army lists I have seen so far has
proven this to be true. I am happy to say the armies I have seen so
far are very reasonable. My Necron army that does very well on comp
only gets a 22 under our system, but with some minor
>  tweeking I can get a 26. I won't get any higher than this, but I
think a 26 is a fair comp for an army that wins most of its battles.

I got the link up for registering through the website. Anyone who is a
PayPal member can register via this link. Anyone else can register by
emailing me directly or calling Great Escape Games at 916-927-0810.

Gary

Per GW FAQ:



They list Marks of Chaos as NOT agains characters wargear limit. Will
it effect the 10% armour limit in the COMP points?

Thanks

Doc






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Per GW FAQ:

<http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/chaosspacemarines/gaming/FAQ/assets/csm_\
faq_v4-0.pdf>

They list Marks of Chaos as NOT agains characters wargear limit.  Will
it effect the 10% armour limit in the COMP points?

Thanks

Doc

I will have to talk to the other judges who are more knowledgeable on Tau
(my specialty is Eldar and Necron) or I will have to read the Codex and let
you know. I should have an answer by Friday evening.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Fox
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 3:51 PM
To: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SacCapitalPunishment] Hammerhead Railgun

The Tau's Railgun mounted on the Hammerhead Tank has the ability to
use a "sub-munition" round. It uses the ordnance template for
determining the number of Hits, but the codex specifically states it
is not an ordonance weapon.

It is S6/Ap4, requires a die-roll to hit vs Balistic Skill, does not
scatter, and does not use the ordnance damage table.

Will its inclusion in a Tau army count against the item #8 in the
composition rules?

Thanks
Steve Fox







Yahoo! Groups Links

No it does not.

-----Original Message-----
From: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doc Dragon
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 2:55 PM
To: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SacCapitalPunishment] Deep Strike

For Comp, is the Deep Strike ability count vs comp as infiltrate dose?

Thanks

Doc








Yahoo! Groups Links

Check out www.sactosaws.com. Our schedule will very likely mirror theirs.
Our schedule will be on the website next week.

Gary

PS I expect with 200 orcs you will end up playing five tyranid armies with
200 models each :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doc Dragon
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 2:56 PM
To: SacCapitalPunishment@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SacCapitalPunishment] Time Table?

Do you have a time table for when games will start/end and how much
time will we have between games.

with over 200 Orks I'll need as much time as I can get. ;)

Doc








Yahoo! Groups Links

I was looking at the website for this and the only
thing there was the front page, sponsors, t-shirts,
and the comp rules.
--------------
More will be posted when Ananda returns from her vacation.


A few thing that I have questions about regarding
this.

First: Are Non GW mini's allowed? What I am not
talking about is Green Army men glued to coins with
pieces of paper saying what they are. What I am
talking about is a thought out army using another
company's miniatures to represent an existing GW Army.
An example of that would be a few years ago I did a
guard army that was composed of BLack Tree WW2
Russians. With Some GW stuff to make the army WYSIWYG.
---------------
As long as the figures are WYSIWYG they are fine.


Second: Painting: Is painting going to be Judged with
a score sheet or is it going to be based on what the
judges are feeling that day. If there is a score sheet
can it be posted on the site.
---------------
There is a score sheet and Ananda will be posting it when she returns. She
is the head paint judge and is designing the check list. Currently she is
planning on allowing players to judge half of the paint score and the judges
the other half with the check list, but that will be finalized next week.
What are people's thoughts on having players judge half of the paint score?
Personally, I would just like to go with a checklist, but Ananda has the
final say.


Third is sportmanship going to be judged and how is it
going to be judged.
----------------
Sportsmanship will be judged and will comprise the second most available
points (after battle score). We have a rather innovative way of doing it,
which is using a paint score-like checklist that each player would fill out
after a game. It is more defined items rather than "Was the player a good
sport or a dick?".


Fourth: Are the scores going to be up after the
tournament and are the judges (painting and comp)
going to be available after the tournament to answer
player questions after the tournament?
----------------
I plan on giving each player a copy of the standings at the end of the
tournament rather than posting a few copies here and there. I know I always
like to see the standings when the tourney is over. I will be available and
I expect Ananda will be also. We are looking for input from the players on
what we can improve for next year. This being our first year I expect some
things will need some improvement.


Fifth: How many rounds are there what is the schedule
of the tournament?
--------------
Three rounds will be played in Saturday and two rounds on Sunday. The full
schedule will be posted next week. It should be very similar to the SAWS
Challenge's schedule. You can see it www.sactosaws.com.


Sixth: Who is running this tournament who are the
folks Judging this as well?
--------------
Ananda Sisk, Mark Broughton, and I (Gary Lane) are the main organizers. I am
the overall coordinator, Ananda is handling paint scoring and Mark is
handling terrain. We also have Mark Havener and Tim Hixon as assistant
organizers as they put the SAWS Challenge together each year. We have the
Sacramento Painter's Guild painting the Forge World Prizes, GW is sending up
Mike from L.A. as a special guest and they are providing the main Forge
World prize. A few locals who are the most knowledgeable on the rules have
been asked to judge if they are not playing. Currently two possible judges
are Shawn Shedenhelm and Keith Harding, both outstanding players (I am still
trying to get them to play :-)).









Yahoo! Groups Links

The Tau's Railgun mounted on the Hammerhead Tank has the ability to
use a "sub-munition" round. It uses the ordnance template for
determining the number of Hits, but the codex specifically states it
is not an ordonance weapon.

It is S6/Ap4, requires a die-roll to hit vs Balistic Skill, does not
scatter, and does not use the ordnance damage table.

Will its inclusion in a Tau army count against the item #8 in the
composition rules?

Thanks
Steve Fox

For Comp, is the Deep Strike ability count vs comp as infiltrate dose?

Thanks

Doc

Do you have a time table for when games will start/end and how much
time will we have between games.

with over 200 Orks I'll need as much time as I can get. ;)

Doc

Questions from East Bay Games e-group from Jeff:

**************

I was looking at the website for this and the only
thing there was the front page, sponsors, t-shirts,
and the comp rules.

A few thing that I have questions about regarding
this.

First: Are Non GW mini's allowed? What I am not
talking about is Green Army men glued to coins with
pieces of paper saying what they are. What I am
talking about is a thought out army using another
company's miniatures to represent an existing GW Army.
An example of that would be a few years ago I did a
guard army that was composed of BLack Tree WW2
Russians. With Some GW stuff to make the army WYSIWYG.

Second: Painting: Is painting going to be Judged with
a score sheet or is it going to be based on what the
judges are feeling that day. If there is a score sheet
can it be posted on the site.

Third is sportmanship going to be judged and how is it
going to be judged.

Fourth: Are the scores going to be up after the
tournament and are the judges (painting and comp)
going to be available after the tournament to answer
player questions after the tournament?

Fifth: How many rounds are there what is the schedule
of the tournament?

Sixth: Who is running this tournament who are the
folks Judging this as well?

Hello All,

Welcome to the yahoo group of Sacramento Capital Punishment 2005
Warhammer 49k Indy GT. Here you can ask questions concerning any
aspect of the tournament. We are working hard to make this a fantastic
event and appreciate everyone that is helping to make this a reality.
We especially appreciate those of you that are choosing to attend this
event and putting your faith in us to run it well. Hopefully we will
get enough players to be able to make this an annual event.

Thanks,
Gary