These don't worry me too much, although they will be an annoyance, and I imagine
a major headache if they start smuggling people or weapons into the country.

What really has me worried is when they get their hands on: a touring sub that
can dive to 100 feet, or so; something similar to the Kilo class, or an
ex-Russian, ex-Chinese, or ex-German diesel-electric; or an old nuke boat.

The drug dealers seem to have really deep pockets, so none of that is really
beyond their reach.

Clearly, the tactics being used against them will need to change, since they are
winning the economic war.

Rob,

you can track the types of submarines you talk and then they have
completely different operative costs and they require really qualified
sailors that the narcos can't take from their own forces.

Ciao
      Paolo

Rob ha scritto:
> These don't worry me too much, although they will be an
> annoyance, and I imagine a major headache if they start
> smuggling people or weapons into the country.
>
> What really has me worried is when they get their hands
> on: a touring sub that can dive to 100 feet, or so;
> something similar to the Kilo class, or an ex-Russian,
> ex-Chinese, or ex-German diesel-electric; or an old
> nuke boat.
>
> The drug dealers seem to have really deep pockets, so
> none of that is really beyond their reach.
>
> Clearly, the tactics being used against them will need
> to change, since they are winning the economic war.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for that info. I would have come up to MK but I am visiting relatives in
Taunton that weekend.



Sorry to have missed you.

Ric Pelvin





To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
From: SimonJohnStokes@...
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 01:19:48 +0000
Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Naval Wargames Shops in UK







Hi Ric,

I don't think there are any big shows on in London in May, but my local club in
Milton keynes (45 minute train journey from London Euston station) has a show on
9th and 10th May (http://www.mkws.org.uk/index.php?s=campaign) at which Magister
Militum are down to attend who normally stock a good range of naval miniatures.

Regards

Simon









_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Guy's:
I think it was someone on this board that mentioned an ISBN for a Japanese book
on battleships from 186x to 1945 or so.
I had it bookmarked and wanted to order it, but somehow my bookmark became
corrupted and I can't find the Amazon.jp (Amazon Japan) site to order it from.
�The book runs 29,400 yen (about 300 dollars.)�
If anyone remembers this could you please forward this information to me. I'd
like to make an order for this book. It's my expensive order for this decade.
Fair Winds.... Bruce:;)























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Bruce,

may be it was:
Japanese Battleships 1897-1945
Authors:  Robert A. Burt
ISBN:  0853687587

Or it could have been:
Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy 1869-1945
Authors:  Hansgeorg Jentschura, Dieter Jung and Peter Mickel
ISBN:  1-85409-525-0

I don't think it was:
Japanese Battleships and Cruisers - Navies of the Second World War
Originally published by: Shuppan Kyoda Sha, Japanese Copyright 1963
Publish Date: Macdonald/Doubleday 1964
SBN: 356-01475-4

Ciao
      Paolo

Bruce Wright ha scritto:
> Hi Guy's:
> I think it was someone on this board that mentioned an ISBN for
> a Japanese book on battleships from 186x to 1945 or so.
> I had it bookmarked and wanted to order it, but somehow my bookmark
> became corrupted and I can't find the Amazon.jp (Amazon Japan)
> site to order it from.  The book runs 29,400 yen (about 300 dollars.)
> If anyone remembers this could you please forward this information
> to me. I'd like to make an order for this book. It's my expensive
> order for this decade.
> Fair Winds.... Bruce:;)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

I doubt that the when it was specified and the requirements being worked out,
they were thinking "pirates".

http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/92536?fp=1
USS Freedom: Quicker, High-Tech and Pirate-Proofedby Vera H-C Chan
May 5, 2009 11:52:12 AM
�Pirates, quiver in your skiffs. Put down your rocket launchers and run. The USS
Freedom has just landed. Or launched. Whatever, just be afraid.
The high-seas bandits' advantage had long been in their nimbleness in a huge
ocean. Now, however, the United States Navy is touting the USS Freedom, the lead
mothership in its class of Littoral Combat Ships (LCS, and littoral means
coastal).
Specifically designed for the "Global War on Terrorism," the 378-foot craft aims
at pirates and oh so much more. According to a fact sheet, Freedom can also defy
"asymmetric 'anti-access threats such as mines, quiet diesel submarines and fast
surface crafts." So seafaring villains thinking of trading in the crafts for
submersible diesels, forget about it.
The rip-roaring Freedom has been called the Navy's corvette, but it runs on
Rolls-Royce MT turbines, as pictured here. Other Freedom factoids:
	 * 3,000 tons
	 * 45 knots (52 mph)
	 * Staffs smaller crews (Blue and Gold crews, 40 members each)
	 * Has a helicopter launch pad
	 * Feels like a submarine.
	 * Can discharge manned or unmanned boats attached to its sides. Yeah, kind of
like Transformers...but not really.
	 * Packs Raytheon RAM missiles, guns, and decoy launching systems
Its success isn't just the boat itself, but a faster shipbuilding process (by
about half) and lower materials cost. That may have helped stave off 300 planned
or considered layoffs for Marinette Marine: The shipyard that built Freedom
received a contract for a second LCS ship.
When it's not cruising around Somalia or any other dangerous waters, USS Freedom
will be hanging in San Diego. So beware, beach bums... Dude, don't even think
about boarding without an invite.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

One hates to rain on the parade, but I think a smaller crew invites boarding :)

Regards, Pat
Last Played: ASL SK, OCS Korea, SCS Gazala


   * Staffs smaller crews (Blue and Gold crews, 40 members each)

   .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ric,

If you contact Navwar at Ilford before you arrive, you may be able to get them
to open up for you. They are generally in the shop working away but used only to
open it on a Saturday - however, for a colonial with a fist full of readies in
the middle of a Recession, I am sure that they would be flexible.

What I have done in the past with them (and some other suppliers as well) is
order from them and let them know where in the UK to deliver it to and when - so
in some cases I'd order a week or two ahead and give the supplier my hotel
address - a fax to the hotel to hold the goods and I'd check in, unpack, then go
down stairs and collect the new toys from the concierge.

The mail order deliveries in the UK are really quite good. Navwar, for example,
when I was living there, I'd telephone at 2:30 Wednesday afternoon and a parcel
would come through my letterbox at 9:00 Thursday morning.

Cheers, Thomo the Lost
http://thomo.coldie.net/

How is NATO standard date/times represented?

ISTR its something like:
161845ZJun08
being 16th June at 6:45 PM

Anyone done any campaigns over days/weeks/months where time keeping
has become an issue?

PG

* Feels like a submarine.

And that is meant to be a good thing?

:)

DM

Thanks, Thomo but don't Navwar only do 1/3000? I'm after 1/2400.

Ric Pelvin





To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
From: thomo.the.lost@...
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 02:34:08 +0000
Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Naval Wargames Shops in UK







Hi Ric,

If you contact Navwar at Ilford before you arrive, you may be able to get them
to open up for you. They are generally in the shop working away but used only to
open it on a Saturday - however, for a colonial with a fist full of readies in
the middle of a Recession, I am sure that they would be flexible.

What I have done in the past with them (and some other suppliers as well) is
order from them and let them know where in the UK to deliver it to and when - so
in some cases I'd order a week or two ahead and give the supplier my hotel
address - a fax to the hotel to hold the goods and I'd check in, unpack, then go
down stairs and collect the new toys from the concierge.

The mail order deliveries in the UK are really quite good. Navwar, for example,
when I was living there, I'd telephone at 2:30 Wednesday afternoon and a parcel
would come through my letterbox at 9:00 Thursday morning.

Cheers, Thomo the Lost
http://thomo.coldie.net/









_________________________________________________________________
Looking to change your car this year? Find car news, reviews and more
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41&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Picky...picky......

Have a good trip mate. Say hello to Blighty for me!

Mal. Wright.

-------Original Message-------

From: Richard Pelvin
Date: 05/07/09 00:51:34
To: navwargames@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [NavWarGames] Re: Naval Wargames Shops in UK





Thanks, Thomo but don't Navwar only do 1/3000? I'm after 1/2400.

Ric Pelvin


________________________________________________




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The shop is only open Saturday afternoons 12.30 to 16.00 hours if I remember
rightly, not even sure if he answers the phone any other time now. Would advice
checking their website - no email contacts though for the latest update.

Drew


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Thomo the Lost
   To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 3:34 AM
   Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Naval Wargames Shops in UK





   Hi Ric,

   If you contact Navwar at Ilford before you arrive, you may be able to get them
to open up for you. They are generally in the shop working away but used only to
open it on a Saturday - however, for a colonial with a fist full of readies in
the middle of a Recession, I am sure that they would be flexible.

   What I have done in the past with them (and some other suppliers as well) is
order from them and let them know where in the UK to deliver it to and when - so
in some cases I'd order a week or two ahead and give the supplier my hotel
address - a fax to the hotel to hold the goods and I'd check in, unpack, then go
down stairs and collect the new toys from the concierge.

   The mail order deliveries in the UK are really quite good. Navwar, for
example, when I was living there, I'd telephone at 2:30 Wednesday afternoon and
a parcel would come through my letterbox at 9:00 Thursday morning.

   Cheers, Thomo the Lost
   http://thomo.coldie.net/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ric,

I don't suppose you'll still be in the UK on Saturday 30th May will you?

I've just been contacted by the nice people of the IWM on board HMS Belfast and
they'd like the NWS to run the HG 76 Gibraltar convoy game we ran at Salute,
using Mal's rules, as part of their D-Day celebration week (25th to 31st May). 
You'd be welcome to come along as part of the crew, as would anyone else on this
list for that matter.

Best Regards

Simon

Regrettably not, Simon. I shall be back in Australia by then sorting out my
credit card bills.

Ric Pelvin





To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
From: SimonJohnStokes@...
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 19:10:49 +0000
Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Naval Wargames Shops in UK







Hi Ric,

I don't suppose you'll still be in the UK on Saturday 30th May will you?

I've just been contacted by the nice people of the IWM on board HMS Belfast and
they'd like the NWS to run the HG 76 Gibraltar convoy game we ran at Salute,
using Mal's rules, as part of their D-Day celebration week (25th to 31st May).
You'd be welcome to come along as part of the crew, as would anyone else on this
list for that matter.

Best Regards

Simon









_________________________________________________________________
Want to stay on top of your life online? Find out how with Windows Live!
http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wahhhhaaaaaaaa! How true? The best laugh of my day!

Mal.

-------Original Message-------

From: Richard Pelvin
Date: 8/05/2009 1:40:01 AM
To: navwargames@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [NavWarGames] Re: Naval Wargames Shops in UK





Regrettably not, Simon. I shall be back in Australia by then sorting out my
credit card bills.

Ric Pelvin

To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
From: SimonJohnStokes@...
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 19:10:49 +0000
Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Naval Wargames Shops in UK

Hi Ric,

I don't suppose you'll still be in the UK on Saturday 30th May will you?

I've just been contacted by the nice people of the IWM on board HMS Belfast
and they'd like the NWS to run the HG 76 Gibraltar convoy game we ran at
Salute, using Mal's rules, as part of their D-Day celebration week (25th to
31st May). You'd be welcome to come along as part of the crew, as would
anyone else on this list for that matter.

Best Regards

Simon

__________________________________________________________
Want to stay on top of your life online? Find out how with Windows Live!
http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Group,

Does anyone on this list know how I can obtain any of the Tactical Fleet
Exercises of the United States Navy that were held during the 1930s?

I know of them only in general terms...like the air raid on Pearl Harbor in
1937...but none of the particulars...like ships on either side, secondary
objectives, where they took place, etc.

Any links or information would be greatly appreciated.

Joseph

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 1:27 PM, palermo_joseph2000
<palermo_joseph2000@...> wrote:

> Does anyone on this list know how I can obtain any of the Tactical Fleet
> Exercises of the United States Navy that were held during the 1930s?
>
> I know of them only in general terms...like the air raid on Pearl Harbor in
> 1937...but none of the particulars...like ships on either side, secondary
> objectives, where they took place, etc.
>
> Any links or information would be greatly appreciated.

FWIW, "The Evolution of Aircraft Carriers" monograph at the Naval
Historical Site

http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/car-toc.htm

Has two chapters on the Fleet Problems, Chapters 5 and 6. But I am not
sure that they have the detail you are looking for.

Jim Broshot

Dear Jim,

Thanks for the link.  I downloaded the entire article (I'm a bit of a voracious
reader on any navy) and will look forward to reading the whole article.

I also back-tracked and will look at the Navy Historical documents in the
library.

Thanks again.

Joseph

I believe that someone (Trent Hone?) is working on a book on the 1930s FleetEx
events.


--- In NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com, "palermo_joseph2000"
<palermo_joseph2000@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Group,
>
> Does anyone on this list know how I can obtain any of the Tactical Fleet
Exercises of the United States Navy that were held during the 1930s?
>
> I know of them only in general terms...like the air raid on Pearl Harbor in
1937...but none of the particulars...like ships on either side, secondary
objectives, where they took place, etc.
>
> Any links or information would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Joseph
>

Joseph - Have you tried "Testing American Sea Power, U.S. Navy Strategic
Exercises, 1923 - 1940," by Craig C. Felker, published by Texas A & M Press
in 2007? That might be what you want. - Steve McHenry



From: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Brooks
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:35 AM
To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises








I believe that someone (Trent Hone?) is working on a book on the 1930s
FleetEx events.

--- In NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com <mailto:NavWarGames%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"palermo_joseph2000" <palermo_joseph2000@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Group,
>
> Does anyone on this list know how I can obtain any of the Tactical Fleet
Exercises of the United States Navy that were held during the 1930s?
>
> I know of them only in general terms...like the air raid on Pearl Harbor
in 1937...but none of the particulars...like ships on either side, secondary
objectives, where they took place, etc.
>
> Any links or information would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Joseph
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Testing American Seapower"  can be previewed at
http://books.google.com/books?id=m67TnEcwCwAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Testing+Ame\
rican+Sea+Power#PPP13,M1



   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Steven R McHenry
   To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 9:18 AM
   Subject: RE: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises





   Joseph - Have you tried "Testing American Sea Power, U.S. Navy Strategic
   Exercises, 1923 - 1940," by Craig C. Felker, published by Texas A & M Press
   in 2007? That might be what you want. - Steve McHenry

   From: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com] On
   Behalf Of Brooks
   Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:35 AM
   To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises

   I believe that someone (Trent Hone?) is working on a book on the 1930s
   FleetEx events.

   --- In NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com <mailto:NavWarGames%40yahoogroups.com> ,
   "palermo_joseph2000" <palermo_joseph2000@...> wrote:
   >
   > Dear Group,
   >
   > Does anyone on this list know how I can obtain any of the Tactical Fleet
   Exercises of the United States Navy that were held during the 1930s?
   >
   > I know of them only in general terms...like the air raid on Pearl Harbor
   in 1937...but none of the particulars...like ships on either side, secondary
   objectives, where they took place, etc.
   >
   > Any links or information would be greatly appreciated.
   >
   > Joseph
   >

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually, I am.

It's due out from the NWC Press around the end of the year or early next year.

Al

--- On Sat, 5/9/09, Brooks <brooks.rowlett@...> wrote:

From: Brooks <brooks.rowlett@...>
Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises
To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 9, 2009, 7:34 AM

















       I believe that someone (Trent Hone?) is working on a book on the 1930s
FleetEx events.



--- In NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com, "palermo_joseph2000 " <palermo_joseph2000
@...> wrote:

>

> Dear Group,

>

> Does anyone on this list know how I can obtain any of the Tactical Fleet
Exercises of the United States Navy that were held during the 1930s?

>

> I know of them only in general terms...like the air raid on Pearl Harbor in
1937...but none of the particulars. ..like ships on either side, secondary
objectives, where they took place, etc.

>

> Any links or information would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Joseph

>































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My take on the fleet problems is different from Felker's

He very correctly
identifies the central fact that fleet problems were sucessful because they were
unscripted free maneuvers.  His focus,
however, is on the fleet problems as they affected the ways in which specific
technological developments (e.g., carrier aviation,
submarines, etc.) were integrated
into the Navy’s tool box.

My primary interest is how the problems

1)

provide a series of
“snap shots” of what the Navy’s senior leadership believed things would be
like
if they had to take the fleet to war immediately. 

2) helped the USN build the "naval force" that won WW2

and how they should remind us that out current approach to maneuvers and
exercises is seriously flawed







--- On Sat, 5/9/09, Al Nofi <al_nofi@...> wrote:

From: Al Nofi <al_nofi@...>
Subject: Re: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises
To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 9, 2009, 11:37 AM

















       Actually, I am.



It's due out from the NWC Press around the end of the year or early next year.



Al



--- On Sat, 5/9/09, Brooks <brooks.rowlett@ gmail.com> wrote:



From: Brooks <brooks.rowlett@ gmail.com>

Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises

To: NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Saturday, May 9, 2009, 7:34 AM



I believe that someone (Trent Hone?) is working on a book on the 1930s FleetEx
events.



--- In NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com, "palermo_joseph2000 " <palermo_joseph2000
@...> wrote:



>



> Dear Group,



>



> Does anyone on this list know how I can obtain any of the Tactical Fleet
Exercises of the United States Navy that were held during the 1930s?



>



> I know of them only in general terms...like the air raid on Pearl Harbor in
1937...but none of the particulars. ..like ships on either side, secondary
objectives, where they took place, etc.



>



> Any links or information would be greatly appreciated.



>



> Joseph



>























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Al:
 
Without giving too much away, could you please describe how you have 'snap-shot'
the fleet problems?
 
I've been very interested in these, though haven't been able to order Felkner's
book.
 
I'm looking for not only a description of what each fleet problem was attempting
to solve, but the historical outcomes from these solutions.
 
I find your first point highly interesting "... taking to war immediately," and
am eager to see your conclusions on your second point in relation to this.
 
Fair Winds.... Bruce:;)









My take on the fleet problems is different from Felker's

He very correctly
identifies the central fact that fleet problems were sucessful because they were
unscripted free maneuvers.  His focus,
however, is on the fleet problems as they affected the ways in which specific
technological developments (e.g., carrier aviation,
submarines, etc.) were integrated
into the Navy’s tool box.

My primary interest is how the problems

1)

provide a series of
“snap shots” of what the Navy’s senior leadership believed things would be
like
if they had to take the fleet to war immediately. 

2) helped the USN build the "naval force" that won WW2

and how they should remind us that out current approach to maneuvers and
exercises is seriously flawed

--- On Sat, 5/9/09, Al Nofi <al_nofi@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Al Nofi <al_nofi@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises
To: NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Saturday, May 9, 2009, 11:37 AM

Actually, I am.

It's due out from the NWC Press around the end of the year or early next year.

Al

--- On Sat, 5/9/09, Brooks <brooks.rowlett@ gmail.com> wrote:

From: Brooks <brooks.rowlett@ gmail.com>

Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises

To: NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Saturday, May 9, 2009, 7:34 AM

I believe that someone (Trent Hone?) is working on a book on the 1930s FleetEx
events.

--- In NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com, "palermo_joseph2000 " <palermo_joseph2000
@...> wrote:

>

> Dear Group,

>

> Does anyone on this list know how I can obtain any of the Tactical Fleet
Exercises of the United States Navy that were held during the 1930s?

>

> I know of them only in general terms...like the air raid on Pearl Harbor in
1937...but none of the particulars. ..like ships on either side, secondary
objectives, where they took place, etc.

>

> Any links or information would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Joseph

>















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joseph,
You may also want to see if you can get hold of RECORDS RELATING TO UNITED
STATES NAVY FLEET PROBLEMS I TO XXII, 1923-1941. It's long outo fprint but you
can request via Inter Library Loan at your local public library.

Mark

--- In NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com, "Steven R McHenry" <srm_klr@...> wrote:
>
> Joseph - Have you tried "Testing American Sea Power, U.S. Navy Strategic
> Exercises, 1923 - 1940," by Craig C. Felker, published by Texas A & M Press
> in 2007? That might be what you want. - Steve McHenry
>
>
>
> From: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Brooks
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:35 AM
> To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I believe that someone (Trent Hone?) is working on a book on the 1930s
> FleetEx events.
>
> --- In NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com <mailto:NavWarGames%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "palermo_joseph2000" <palermo_joseph2000@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Group,
> >
> > Does anyone on this list know how I can obtain any of the Tactical Fleet
> Exercises of the United States Navy that were held during the 1930s?
> >
> > I know of them only in general terms...like the air raid on Pearl Harbor
> in 1937...but none of the particulars...like ships on either side, secondary
> objectives, where they took place, etc.
> >
> > Any links or information would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Joseph
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Dear Group,

Thanks again.  I just bought Felker's book on Amazon.com.  Looked at the index
and it looks like just what I wanted.

Joseph

Try
http://txspace.tamu.edu/bitstream/handle/1969.1/2658/etd-tamu-2005B-HIST-Wadle.p\
df?sequence=1


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Mark Burdette
   To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:11 AM
   Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises





   Joseph,
   You may also want to see if you can get hold of RECORDS RELATING TO UNITED
STATES NAVY FLEET PROBLEMS I TO XXII, 1923-1941. It's long outo fprint but you
can request via Inter Library Loan at your local public library.

   Mark

   --- In NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com, "Steven R McHenry" <srm_klr@...> wrote:
   >
   > Joseph - Have you tried "Testing American Sea Power, U.S. Navy Strategic
   > Exercises, 1923 - 1940," by Craig C. Felker, published by Texas A & M Press
   > in 2007? That might be what you want. - Steve McHenry
   >
   >
   >
   > From: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com] On
   > Behalf Of Brooks
   > Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:35 AM
   > To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
   > Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > I believe that someone (Trent Hone?) is working on a book on the 1930s
   > FleetEx events.
   >
   > --- In NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com <mailto:NavWarGames%40yahoogroups.com> ,
   > "palermo_joseph2000" <palermo_joseph2000@> wrote:
   > >
   > > Dear Group,
   > >
   > > Does anyone on this list know how I can obtain any of the Tactical Fleet
   > Exercises of the United States Navy that were held during the 1930s?
   > >
   > > I know of them only in general terms...like the air raid on Pearl Harbor
   > in 1937...but none of the particulars...like ships on either side, secondary
   > objectives, where they took place, etc.
   > >
   > > Any links or information would be greatly appreciated.
   > >
   > > Joseph
   > >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I plowed the original docs and several hundred newspaper reportsas well as the
few available references in memoirs

So each problem is dealt with as events unfolded, and then reviewed and analyzed
based on commanders' intent, contemporary interpretations, and longer term
implications.



--- On Sun, 5/10/09, Bruce Wright <scholar948@...> wrote:

From: Bruce Wright <scholar948@...>
Subject: Re: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises
To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 2:27 AM



















Hi Al:

 

Without giving too much away, could you please describe how you have 'snap-shot'
the fleet problems?

 

I've been very interested in these, though haven't been able to order Felkner's
book.

 

I'm looking for not only a description of what each fleet problem was attempting
to solve, but the historical outcomes from these solutions.

 

I find your first point highly interesting "... taking to war immediately, " and
am eager to see your conclusions on your second point in relation to this.

 

Fair Winds.... Bruce:;)



My take on the fleet problems is different from Felker's



He very correctly

identifies the central fact that fleet problems were sucessful because they were

unscripted free maneuvers.  His focus,

however, is on the fleet problems as they affected the ways in which specific

technological developments (e.g., carrier aviation,

submarines, etc.) were integrated

into the Navy’s tool box.



My primary interest is how the problems



1)



provide a series of

“snap shots” of what the Navy’s senior leadership believed things would be
like

if they had to take the fleet to war immediately. 



2) helped the USN build the "naval force" that won WW2



and how they should remind us that out current approach to maneuvers and
exercises is seriously flawed



--- On Sat, 5/9/09, Al Nofi <al_nofi@yahoo. com> wrote:



From: Al Nofi <al_nofi@yahoo. com>

Subject: Re: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises

To: NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Saturday, May 9, 2009, 11:37 AM



Actually, I am.



It's due out from the NWC Press around the end of the year or early next year.



Al



--- On Sat, 5/9/09, Brooks <brooks.rowlett@ gmail.com> wrote:



From: Brooks <brooks.rowlett@ gmail.com>



Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises



To: NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com



Date: Saturday, May 9, 2009, 7:34 AM



I believe that someone (Trent Hone?) is working on a book on the 1930s FleetEx
events.



--- In NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com, "palermo_joseph2000 " <palermo_joseph2000
@...> wrote:



>



> Dear Group,



>



> Does anyone on this list know how I can obtain any of the Tactical Fleet
Exercises of the United States Navy that were held during the 1930s?



>



> I know of them only in general terms...like the air raid on Pearl Harbor in
1937...but none of the particulars. ..like ships on either side, secondary
objectives, where they took place, etc.



>



> Any links or information would be greatly appreciated.



>



> Joseph



>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's 36 rolls of microfilm.

Oddly, there is not a complete set of docs for any one problem.

--- On Sun, 5/10/09, Mark Burdette <mark.burdette@...> wrote:

From: Mark Burdette <mark.burdette@...>
Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises
To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 7:11 AM

















       Joseph,

You may also want to see if you can get hold of RECORDS RELATING TO UNITED
STATES NAVY FLEET PROBLEMS I TO XXII, 1923-1941. It's long outo fprint but you
can request via Inter Library Loan at your local public library.



Mark



--- In NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com, "Steven R McHenry" <srm_klr@... > wrote:

>

> Joseph - Have you tried "Testing American Sea Power, U.S. Navy Strategic

> Exercises, 1923 - 1940," by Craig C. Felker, published by Texas A & M Press

> in 2007? That might be what you want. - Steve McHenry

>

>

>

> From: NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com] On

> Behalf Of Brooks

> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:35 AM

> To: NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com

> Subject: [NavWarGames] Re: Fleet Tactical Exercises

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I believe that someone (Trent Hone?) is working on a book on the 1930s

> FleetEx events.

>

> --- In NavWarGames@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:NavWarGames %40yahoogroups. com>
,

> "palermo_joseph2000 " <palermo_joseph2000 @> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Group,

> >

> > Does anyone on this list know how I can obtain any of the Tactical Fleet

> Exercises of the United States Navy that were held during the 1930s?

> >

> > I know of them only in general terms...like the air raid on Pearl Harbor

> in 1937...but none of the particulars. ..like ships on either side, secondary

> objectives, where they took place, etc.

> >

> > Any links or information would be greatly appreciated.

> >

> > Joseph

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]