--- In Merchant_Priests@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Edwards"
<Chris.Edwards.GM@...> wrote:
>
> We're looking into creating a forum, which should make things easier.

Did a group forum ever get created in the end?

Has anybody heard from Nathan aka Mardocai, recently?

I'm trying to get in touch with him regarding something that we have
already co-ordinated in downtime and dont seem to be getting an answer
from his email address

I'm in the process of writing a briefing sheet for the aspect of the
merchant hat my character follow, The Heole, aka the merisusi version
of the merchant.

I'm thinking about using this story as the opening parable, but i'm
not sure if it works as i want it to and am hoping to get some
external advice.

Does the story work based upon the tenets of the merchant.  Is it
readable?  are there any parts of it that the grammar needs to be
worked on?  do i use too much dialogue at the end?

The Hero The Champion the Heole

"When i was a child my father turned to my brother and me and gave
each of us a knife and bib us go into the woods each morning, saying
to us that we would eat only that which we each caught, that which we
each killed and which we each gathered with our own hands.

On the first day i gathered berries and cut vines and creepers and
returned home with my brother, hungry and with hands stained red with
the juices of our prize.

Through the night from the creepers I created rope and cut it in
cunning loops and made ready for the morning while my brother stared
longingly at my fathers table.

On the second day we descended into the wood , Again did i gather
fruit and berries as did my brother, both of us finding sufficient to
feed us but i put aside some of my food, knowing hunger would not hurt
me and using this bounty i set traps and snares for the next morning.

As i sat in my father hall that night I drew forth a length of wood
which i had gathered that day and as i cut it, my stomach aching, my
brother recognized my hunger but exulted. "I will not share with you,
for hunger will not harm you. It will teach you to be less wasteful in
future."

So it was that we descended into the woods for the third day and
instead of returning with but nuts and berries i found my snares had
caught rabbit and game. But alas, also had some of my traps been
broken, something, or some one having taken their prize.

As i sat in my fathers hall that night i saw that my brother returned
also with game and so i asked him where he had caught it.

"why brother" he replied "it was so careless of you to leave your
traps where any may find them" he cautioned, chuckling at his own wit
"let this be a lesson to you. What is your is what you can keep,
nothing else!"

The next day we again set out into the woods. Gone were the days of
plenty, for the forest could feel the passing of the seasons and there
was little food to be had. I came across my brother in a glade,
viewing my empty traps with disdain, hunger in his face.

"how goes the hunt with you brother?" he asked and i said to him that
although the game was less, i was blessed by catching a hawk in my
traps but my brother scoffed "how can you eat a hawk" he asked but
spying the lone rabbit that hung from my belt he said "brother, i am
hungry, Give me that rabbit so that i may feed myself."

I could see that the lesson of the woods had not been taught well to
him and i said "nae, for what right have you to it? You have set no
trap, you have done no work but you live off the sacrifice i have
made. I will show you how to set snares yourself, but you can not have
my rabbit."

At this my brother grew angry. Reaching down he lifted a stone of
flint and smashed it again my head. Blood seeped onto the cold earth
as my brother took my rabbit from me and i sat hungry in my fathers
hall that night, thankful for the promise the hawk had brought and
mindful of the lesson of the flint stone.

The next day when we stepped into the woods i came across my brother
again. Although i was weak and he was strong i stepped towards him as
again he stood over my traps, taking the game which by right was my own.

"Brother" I called to him "I have caught those, why do you take them
from me?".

He turned and looked at me in contempt. "because i can. I have
challenged you many times and each time i have defeated you. While you
have wasted energy on other projects i have harbored my own and am
strong and well nourished while you are weak and with empty stomach.
You can not stop me taking these birds" and he stooped to take his prize.

"Brother" i said unto him again "It is you who has been wasteful.
While i have labored and sacrificed much to your predations each day i
have been made stronger for it. You taught me a lesson once. Now let
me teach you!"

And with that i shot him with the bow that i had crafted, the arrows
fletched with hawk-feathers and tipped in flint.

"What is your is what you can keep, nothing else!"

The first arrow bit deep, piecing his leg. The second pinning him to a
tree by his shoulder. As i stood over him with a third arrow drawn i
looked into those eyes and realized the truth of the Woods.

"All things compete, brother, that is the nature of life. But what you
accomplish matters more than what you win. For three days now you have
taken a share of my food as well as your own but you are no better for
it. I may be weaker now, but I have not only defeated you, my brother,
but the forest also. For while i may live of Game, now i can live off
deer, to hunt and feast as a warrior should. What i have given up
these last few days i will reap countless time in the years to come.
You were unwilling to sacrifice and so now, you have nothing..." and
with that, i shot him again, and again, and again, and again and took
the prize which i had won.

---The story of "the twins in the woods" as told in the trophy hall in
yst gara.

With the view of the group below, i'm not sure what use I could get
out of this group judging by the very different spin on the merchant
concept that I have chosen to pursue.

Granted, i've run the details past Andy Raff and Pd already, but i'm
comming to the conclusion that discussion of the "heole/hero" aspet
of the Merchant should be kept pretty much IC which is a pity as i'd
like to see other merisusi take this interpreation of the merchant
faith at startup.

--- In Merchant_Priests@yahoogroups.com, Robin Jones <bin@...> wrote:
>
> The original intent of the Merchant Priests egroup was to mutually
agree
> a base-level orthodoxy within the faith for any issues or services
which
> may crop up. The idea being that when individual priests/groups
were
> departing from "orthodox" views, that would be a deliberate choice
on
> their part and other priests would recognise it for what it was ...
not
> necessarily heretical or wrong, but certainly different to
the "norm"
> back in the Old World. For whatever reason, the group hasn't really
been
> used a great deal since its inception, which leads me to believe
that
> either people aren't really interested in agreeing a baseline, or
> weren't aware that such was the intent of the group. Beyond its
original
> purpose I'm not sure what OOC use such a group or forum could
serve ...
> though if anyone has any ideas that'd be great ... just because I
can't
> think of any doesn't mean they don't exist! :-)
>
> Bin

Bakhana/Havocstan is a single group with a relatively clear IC hierarchy. It can be considered a private forum for the purposes of sharing information between group members. The Merchant faithful are more dispersed, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing: it means getting us together to do productive things, share ideas and plans is left solely the province of uptime roleplay.
 
The majority of Arethusa communication between events is handled by casual conversation between each other, since we're all living in York. Mostly, we're ok for forums.
 
If there are strong arguments for a forum, I'm happy to listen to them. Equally, I'll probably join up if someone can pass on an address. I can't guarantee that I'll log on often, though.
 
Paul

I found this and i thought this is exactly how the faith would work in
merisusi :)

http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Onion-Movie-Armed-Gunman

looking at the history of this group, it's had one post in the last 18
months.

is there any real reason to keep this group open if it's not being used?

HI all :)

My name is Salvador and my new character is a Merchant Priest.
Wanted to make myself known OOC and generally hope to meet you all soon.

regards

Sal

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Merchant_Priests
group.

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friar_isaac_varas <thebeaver101@...>

This is an advertisement for "Discourse" a Church based player event
that will be running in February 2007.

The premise of the event is:
"A Gathering of the Faiths of the Churches of the True Gods for a
seminar of theological discourse"

It is being organised by Isaac Varas and the Angel Mardocai, and
hosted by the Arethusa branch of the Church of the Merchant.
It will be a chance for members of the various Churches, associated
devotees and loyal Eidolons to gather together to discuss theology and
religious issues. This would be both active stuff relating to the New
World, magic, the Fallen, the Awakened, the Natives and their Gods,
and also more general issues of the Old World faiths.
A lot of these issues many of us would like to sit down and discuss at
the main events yet find ourselves rushed off our feet instead and
rarely having a spare moment to do it. In line with the rules for
player events it would also be a chance for the Churches to meet away
from some of the ties of secular politics. There will be a mixture of
formal seminars, lectures and debates along with the opportunity to
chat IC in a less formal manner.

The usual restrictions on actions suitable for player events will
apply. (see here
http://www.profounddecisions.co.uk/events/nonpdevents.asp )

The main audience are members of the churches and loyal Eidolons,
although other devotees of the Old World Faiths are also welcome. We
are also open to players playing secondary characters if their primary
characters are not suitable for the event.
Essentially, if you're a part of the religious game, or are interested
in it and you're not the part being hunted down and smote by the
church groups, you're welcome to come along!

Site:
The event will be held at the York scout activity center (website
here:http://uk.geocities.com/snowball_plantation/ ) on Saturday 24th
February till Sunday 25th.
The campsite on the outskirts of Stockton-on-the-Forest, about  5
miles from York City center and accessible from York train station by
both taxi and bus (the Leeds-Scarborough Yorkshire `Coastliner'
service http://www.yorkshirecoastliner.co.uk/ )
The site is hired from Friday evening until Sunday afternoon and so
the accommodation is there for those who would find such an
arrangement more convenient.

Venue:
Time in will start Saturday afternoon around 2/3pm (when the majority
of players are ready), and will time out Sunday morning. (Exact times
flexible to the desires of the players.)

Accommodation:
Indoor accommodation provided for 39 people , ( 2 rooms with 12 bed
spaces, [6 double bunks in each]; 3 rooms each with 4 beds; and 1 room
[with on-suite toilet and shower] for disabled persons). Mattresses
provided, although it is requested that you provide your own sleeping
bags.
There will also be camping space for additional players at a reduced rate.

Cost:
Booking forms available here: (insert booking form)
Until 25th December: £20
After 25th December until February 10th: £25
Paying deadline up until the 10th of February.
Included in the cost is food in the form of a buffet and there will be
a selection of simple hot food.

The event coincides with the Foreign Field LARP fair
(http://forums.rule7.co.uk/Topic1720-32-1.aspx) which is on the route
for many people traveling to York via the M1 from the South, hence it
would be a good opportunity to visit both events (either on the way
up, or the return on Sunday).

If you're interested, email me, or post here.

I'll upload the booking form to the files section.

Hello,

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binidj <bin@...>

Hello,

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binidj <bin@...>

Hello,

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Hello,

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>>Live Journal is where
>>the quality bitchin is to be found. :)
>>
>>
>
>Bah! I knew it was a mistake telling you about LiveJournal =)
>
>
To be honest, I rarely read them. It was a throw-a-way quip.

>One thing that I found pretty annoying at the last event was the
>Supplication we performed in the Sacuza tent. Having explained all of the
>efforts we'd gone to to achieve the result for ourselves, explained (I
>think) exactly what we wanted as a result of the Supplication, and what the
>subject of the Supplication was willing to "pay" for the desired result; the
>response we got was a loyal Eidolon who told us that the Merchant had sent
>him to help. When we explained what we'd already done (as we had in the
>Supplication) the poor fellow's eyes positively bulged and he seemed at a
>complete loss as to how he could contribute any more than we had already
>done.
>
>
One of the problems with supplications is a perception, despite
everything stated in the rulebook
about the delays in responding, players still think that if they perform
a supplication that the next
eidolon along is responding to that supplication. (In fact, we quite
frequently get eidolons coming
in to "collect the response" five minutes later, in fact we have had
eidolons coming in to "collect
the response" to supplications before the supplication paperwork has
being brought in by the ref).

If you think about the intervals between supplications compared with the
professed time responses
take, the chance that the eidolon is responding to your most recent
supplication is vanishingly small.

>The thing is that, in many ways, no response at all would have been better
>than what we got.
>
To provide that, we'd have had to provide you with no response for a
"long" period of time , presumably
until you and everyone involved had done at least one or more major
supplications.

>The point of all this is that I think there may be an issue with the way in
>which Supplications are "marked". Clearly I don't know the actual mechanism
>by which Supplications are processed, nor do I know what results are
>possible, but I think it's something that may bear some scrutiny.
>
>
*shrug* As repeatedly said we don't mark supplications in anyway. We
clearly have problems responding
quickly enough (it just doesn't matter *what* we say in the rulebook and
campaign guide, players *expect*
instant turn-a-round), and we do want to make the actions of gods follow
on more closely from the
supplications of their followers. We also have problems wherein players
mistakenly link the wrong response
with the wrong supplication. In fact it's getting to the point where
most "assumptions" of this kind are
wrong. Certainly all of them I hear about are wrong (of course I only
hear about the ones where someone
says "We asked for X and got Y instead").

We're looking at that problem too, but if we find an answer it's likely
to involve some brainstorming.

Matt P,
PD.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Pennington
> Sent: 07 May 2006 20:14

> Live Journal is where
> the quality bitchin is to be found. :)

Bah! I knew it was a mistake telling you about LiveJournal =)

One thing that I found pretty annoying at the last event was the
Supplication we performed in the Sacuza tent. Having explained all of the
efforts we'd gone to to achieve the result for ourselves, explained (I
think) exactly what we wanted as a result of the Supplication, and what the
subject of the Supplication was willing to "pay" for the desired result; the
response we got was a loyal Eidolon who told us that the Merchant had sent
him to help. When we explained what we'd already done (as we had in the
Supplication) the poor fellow's eyes positively bulged and he seemed at a
complete loss as to how he could contribute any more than we had already
done.

The thing is that, in many ways, no response at all would have been better
than what we got. It seemed that, despite a large number of devotees and
what I thought was a rather good Supplication (I didn't perform it), the
Merchant hadn't actually been paying attention. It felt a little akin to a
drowning man being thrown a matchstick, sure it floats but it's not actually
going to be any help under the circumstances.

The point of all this is that I think there may be an issue with the way in
which Supplications are "marked". Clearly I don't know the actual mechanism
by which Supplications are processed, nor do I know what results are
possible, but I think it's something that may bear some scrutiny.

Bin
Jagular Brusch
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
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Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 01/05/2006

>I'll pass this onto the rest of my group, thanks.
>We'll endeavour to be less subtle during our
>supplication.
>Maybe we will go ahead with that one of Supplicating
>the Merchant to send Mardocai tell us a story...
>
>
Unsubtle is good.

>I'd also like to say that despite any *complaints*
>(whining) about lack of Official support; myself and
>the rest of the group have had great fun with the
>“Religious game” in Maelstrom, and I think the
>apparent layout of the world metaphysics is very well
>done, full kudos to whoever wrote it, it’s great.
>
>
I'm glad you are enjoying it.

>It might not be running as smoothly as we’d like, but
>it’s still damn cool.
>
>I do think it's a shame that some players
>(particularly those focused in the “other games”)
>don't seem to have recognised this (although this is
>judging from Pagga, which isn't perhaps the most
>reliable source of player sympathies) and whined about
>the potentially dodgy nature of every Eidolon you
>meet, how Gods don’t send earthquakes when they’re
>angry etc. From at least some people actually immersed
>in that part of maelstrom are fully enjoying it.
>
>
*shrug* My experience of running LRP games for ten years is that it is
an exercise in pissing people off. You run an event, 90% of people like
it, 10% don't. These percentages remain pretty much fixed from event to
event, so no matter who is there, no matter how good the event is, a
percentage of people will be pissed off and either publically moan or
not come back. Of course you have new players coming in all the time, so
what you have, over time, is a system that will systematically annoy
everyone you know and like. ;)

That's deeply cynical, but I'm afraid that after a few years, you either
become innured to people whining or you give up running events. I'm my
own worst critic, I've never met one harsher, so I don't worry too much
about whining, I'm much more interested in talking to players who want
to play the game, want to engage with the game and have sensible
questions to ask and comments to make. Focussing on the 90% who are
enjoying the game is the only way to preserve sanity I think.

Pagga is generally pretty sympathetic to Maelstrom. If anything it's too
sympathetic, it's all a bit nepotistic sometimes. Live Journal is where
the quality bitchin is to be found. :)

As for smiting the infidels with earthquakes. We could do that. It would
be a very different game if we did. I don't think it would be as good,
but of course I would think that. Maelstrom: The Smiting does not seem
all that fun to me. That said, finding a way to incorporate active,
valid, thriving, worthwile religeons into a game driven by PCs and not
by NPCs is not easy.

Matt P,
PD.

Wow, that's alot Matt, that was precisely the sort of
reply I hoped for. Remember players are often stupid
and need to be poked in the right direction. ;-)

I'll pass this onto the rest of my group, thanks.
We'll endeavour to be less subtle during our
supplication.
Maybe we will go ahead with that one of Supplicating
the Merchant to send Mardocai tell us a story...

I'd also like to say that despite any *complaints*
(whining) about lack of Official support; myself and
the rest of the group have had great fun with the
“Religious game” in Maelstrom, and I think the
apparent layout of the world metaphysics is very well
done, full kudos to whoever wrote it, it’s great.

It might not be running as smoothly as we’d like, but
it’s still damn cool.

I do think it's a shame that some players
(particularly those focused in the “other games”)
don't seem to have recognised this (although this is
judging from Pagga, which isn't perhaps the most
reliable source of player sympathies) and whined about
the potentially dodgy nature of every Eidolon you
meet, how Gods don’t send earthquakes when they’re
angry etc. From at least some people actually immersed
in that part of maelstrom are fully enjoying it.

You've done well.

Tom

--- Matt Pennington <Matt@...>
wrote:


---------------------------------
friar_isaac_varas wrote:

>Now without breaking the FOIP barrier too much, how
much feeling has
>there been that the Merchant Faith is perhaps one of
the most
>difficult and/or least successful in terms of
performing supplications
>and getting results.
>
>
To evaluate whether you are the least successful
faith, you would need
to draw comparisons with
what other faiths have acchieved. As far as I am aware
almost all the
faiths are struggeling in this
regard which has led PD to look at ways to better
support this aspect of
the game.

>For the first year (Augeration, Masereta and
Indenheere (sp) )we kinda
>assumed that Supplication = Services, and that we
were in a sense
>"obliged" to do supplications due to being a
religious group. This
>resulted in refs being dragged out to listen to some
very long and
>boring services.
>
>
Supplication /= religious service. You can perform a
supplication by
yourself... Supplication is a
skill that lets you tell god exactly what you want, if
he is in the mood
for giving you something.

>Aside from possibly a certain result at the last
event, for the most
>part it's seemed that there have been little
responses to our
>supplications, and neither have I heard of any other
Merchant
>supplication getting a response. It may be purely IC
and/or
>game-mechanical reasons for this (no enough "holy
juice" from the
>supplicants/conversions etc), in which case, fair
enough, however I do
>wonder if it's an OC issue.
>
>
In the first two years we had some difficulties
responding to
supplications as effectively as we
would like. Basically this is one of a number of areas
of the game that
suffered problems. The
difference with supplications is that in other areas
the problems were
visible, where with
supplication, if nothing happened, players simply
assumed that was the
correct response.
Some times it was, but not always.

We are, as mentioned, actively trying to support the
religious aspects
of the game better. We
are looking at ways to deepen and broaden the
influence of Churches at
events and in downtime
and we are improving our ability to respond to the
actions of the devout
at events. A key member
of the plot team has taken responsibility for this
area and a
considerable amount of time is being
spent developing the computer software required to
improve our ability
to respond quickly.

In otherwords, it's not been great, but we are
actively engaged in
improving it.

> Although this is at
>least partially cus we don't want to yell out a
thinly veiled opinion
>of what *kewl 5 point blessing* we think we should
get.
>
>
The point of a supplication is that at some point you
make clear to your
deity what kewl
5 point blessing would come in really useful right
now...

>It has also occurred to us that maybe it's a case of
asking for a
>certain set of blessings/rewards that are actively
available from the
>merchant at this time. That there are almost "magic
words" we're meant
>to utter during the supplication. However as far as I
can tell, PD is
>far more responsive to player choices and actions
than that (feel free
>to correct me).
>
>
Ask for anything you like, there are no magic words.
It's not a pick list.

>Wondering what other people's feelings are on the
issue.
>Are we simply playing the hardest faith to get
payback from? Is it
>because of game mechanics I'm not aware of?
>Is there an issue with Merchant supplications, or are
we just being
>unlucky/crap?
>
>
I believe Bin has already identified the philosophical
issue in
"supplication" for Merchant
devotees. All I can say in that regard is that
supplication is accepted
by the majority of
Merchant priests across the Known World although it
may well be
performed in very
different ways to a supplication by a Teacher priest.

I suspect that you have been unlucky as a group,
coupled with the fact
that our systems have
not been as responsive as we had hoped. I believe that
if you are
clearer about what you
kewl 5 point blessing you would like and only do a
supplication when you
feel something
is important (rather than as services) then that will
maximise your
chances of enjoying the
blessings of the Merchant.

>"Nudging" from PD in the right direction if we're
going wrong would be
>esp welcome.
>
>
I hope the above "nudging" helps.

Matt P,
PD.


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friar_isaac_varas wrote:

>Now without breaking the FOIP barrier too much, how much feeling has
>there been that the Merchant Faith is perhaps one of the most
>difficult and/or least successful in terms of performing supplications
>and getting results.
>
>
To evaluate whether you are the least successful faith, you would need
to draw comparisons with
what other faiths have acchieved. As far as I am aware almost all the
faiths are struggeling in this
regard which has led PD to look at ways to better support this aspect of
the game.

>For the first year (Augeration, Masereta and Indenheere (sp) )we kinda
>assumed that Supplication = Services, and that we were in a sense
>"obliged" to do supplications due to being a religious group. This
>resulted in refs being dragged out to listen to some very long and
>boring services.
>
>
Supplication /= religious service. You can perform a supplication by
yourself... Supplication is a
skill that lets you tell god exactly what you want, if he is in the mood
for giving you something.

>Aside from possibly a certain result at the last event, for the most
>part it's seemed that there have been little responses to our
>supplications, and neither have I heard of any other Merchant
>supplication getting a response. It may be purely IC and/or
>game-mechanical reasons for this (no enough "holy juice" from the
>supplicants/conversions etc), in which case, fair enough, however I do
>wonder if it's an OC issue.
>
>
In the first two years we had some difficulties responding to
supplications as effectively as we
would like. Basically this is one of a number of areas of the game that
suffered problems. The
difference with supplications is that in other areas the problems were
visible, where with
supplication, if nothing happened, players simply assumed that was the
correct response.
Some times it was, but not always.

We are, as mentioned, actively trying to support the religious aspects
of the game better. We
are looking at ways to deepen and broaden the influence of Churches at
events and in downtime
and we are improving our ability to respond to the actions of the devout
at events. A key member
of the plot team has taken responsibility for this area and a
considerable amount of time is being
spent developing the computer software required to improve our ability
to respond quickly.

In otherwords, it's not been great, but we are actively engaged in
improving it.

> Although this is at
>least partially cus we don't want to yell out a thinly veiled opinion
>of what *kewl 5 point blessing* we think we should get.
>
>
The point of a supplication is that at some point you make clear to your
deity what kewl
5 point blessing would come in really useful right now...

>It has also occurred to us that maybe it's a case of asking for a
>certain set of blessings/rewards that are actively available from the
>merchant at this time. That there are almost "magic words" we're meant
>to utter during the supplication. However as far as I can tell, PD is
>far more responsive to player choices and actions than that (feel free
>to correct me).
>
>
Ask for anything you like, there are no magic words. It's not a pick list.

>Wondering what other people's feelings are on the issue.
>Are we simply playing the hardest faith to get payback from? Is it
>because of game mechanics I'm not aware of?
>Is there an issue with Merchant supplications, or are we just being
>unlucky/crap?
>
>
I believe Bin has already identified the philosophical issue in
"supplication" for Merchant
devotees. All I can say in that regard is that supplication is accepted
by the majority of
Merchant priests across the Known World although it may well be
performed in very
different ways to a supplication by a Teacher priest.

I suspect that you have been unlucky as a group, coupled with the fact
that our systems have
not been as responsive as we had hoped. I believe that if you are
clearer about what you
kewl 5 point blessing you would like and only do a supplication when you
feel something
is important (rather than as services) then that will maximise your
chances of enjoying the
blessings of the Merchant.

>"Nudging" from PD in the right direction if we're going wrong would be
>esp welcome.
>
>
I hope the above "nudging" helps.

Matt P,
PD.

Ello,

Hope eveyone's well. Noticed it's been a bit quiet since, so may as
well  raised this on pagga a long while back, but thought I'd try and
get a bit of debate going here. (Which has an advantage of not being
infested by Paggaites)

Now without breaking the FOIP barrier too much, how much feeling has
there been that the Merchant Faith is perhaps one of the most
difficult and/or least successful in terms of performing supplications
and getting results.

I've been playing as a member of the Arethusa (a group concept based
around being the Merchantile crew of a free island corsair) for two
characters, since the very start of Auguration, and have attended
every event since. My current Primary (Friar Isaac Varas) is
technically a little detached from the group, concentrating on the
more "hands/sword on" aspect of the Maelstrom religion game, but still
makes a point off attending any merchant supplication he here's about
(providing demons don't get in the way).

It seems that there is the obvious problem for any Merchant priest
that the word "Supplicate" means "to humbly beg for"… Now being
merchant followers we aren't humble (we worship the God of Bling
afterall), and we most certainly don't beg.
Hense, just asking the merchant for what we want/need just seems
wrong. Hense if we do it at all, we try and work it into the service.
However I can see this makes things muddy for the ref/plot crew.

For the first year (Augeration, Masereta and Indenheere (sp) )we kinda
assumed that Supplication = Services, and that we were in a sense
"obliged" to do supplications due to being a religious group. This
resulted in refs being dragged out to listen to some very long and
boring services.

After some consideration over the issue during winter we attempted a
different style of Supplication for Hootenanny, instead of having a
long, drawn out service, we had a far shorter, punchier affair where
we shouting out what achievements individual members of the group had
done, and what they were planning to do.
Our service was loud enough to draw the occasional worried bystander
(who thought it was a fight and so naturally went to have a look…).
This seemed more fitting with the Merchant faith but I don't recall
any real results. Though I am aware of the hit and miss nature of
supplications.

We also considered perhaps a supplication with the Merchant should
take some form of "bargain", we pledge to do something to the
Merchant, in return for him granting us some divine aid.
Still, this doesn't seem quite how we'd interact with a God who has
promised us at least Eternal reward for honest toil. Certainly getting
sulky and not building the church because the Merchant didn't give us
ming doesn't seem very appropriate.

At Prosperity we lost our main supplicating priest, (as the player
wanted to try something else), and we've only recently gained another,
and I was rather inconvenienced half way through last event and had to
run off and play a secondary. So I didn't get to observe the
effectiveness of supplications 1st hand. Hence trying to gauge the
success of merchant supplications for us recently has been rather hard.
Also the slight issue with Gnolls and religion rather complicated
things last event for assessment purposes I feel.

Aside from possibly a certain result at the last event, for the most
part it's seemed that there have been little responses to our
supplications, and neither have I heard of any other Merchant
supplication getting a response. It may be purely IC and/or
game-mechanical reasons for this (no enough "holy juice" from the
supplicants/conversions etc), in which case, fair enough, however I do
wonder if it's an OC issue.
I'm not sure how much it compares with the success of the
Supplications of other faiths, but at least at the first event the
Smith got some damn loud responses. (But then the DNF are damn good at
what they do)

Throughout all this we've had Eidolons tell us "Pray more!" and
"Supplicate more!", which we've been trying to do (hopefully my rather
long downtime prayer will help to some extent with that...)

It has occurred to us that we haven't been either providing the Plot
crew with clear indication what response we actually want (either at
the supplication, or with helpful prayers), or really been performing
our supplications in the way that's expected. Although this is at
least partially cus we don't want to yell out a thinly veiled opinion
of what *kewl 5 point blessing* we think we should get.

It has also occurred to us that maybe it's a case of asking for a
certain set of blessings/rewards that are actively available from the
merchant at this time. That there are almost "magic words" we're meant
to utter during the supplication. However as far as I can tell, PD is
far more responsive to player choices and actions than that (feel free
to correct me).

Wondering what other people's feelings are on the issue.
Are we simply playing the hardest faith to get payback from? Is it
because of game mechanics I'm not aware of?
Is there an issue with Merchant supplications, or are we just being
unlucky/crap?

"Nudging" from PD in the right direction if we're going wrong would be
esp welcome.

Tom
(Friar Isaac Varas, Templar of the Holy Merchant)

How would you suggest altering it?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Percival
> Sent: 06 September 2005 13:43
>
> Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you say, just
> the wording of that part of the prayer could be
> altered slightly in my view to fit the merchant.
>
> As you know, the Artemans show plenty of kindness and
> generosity, but not charity. I just think there's a
> line too far.

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