1. Do not answer rules questions on the list, even if they are not
preceded by a [RULES] note.
2. Old rules digests may be found at http://mndigest.shadowdragon.net,
or in the Files section of the listserv:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MagiNation/files
Please check previous digests before asking a question to be certain
it has not been answered before.
3. Include [RULES] in the subject of all rules posts, otherwise the
rules team may miss the question for the digest.
4. We must stress again the first rule; those who continually violate
this will be in danger of moderation.

RT = Rules Team

a. Motash Staff
b. Corrupt vs. Resistance
c. Severos vs. Resistance
d. Ashio vs. Resistance
e. Do we start at the beginning?
f. Burrowed invulnerability
g. Pyromancy vs. Burrow
h. Nagsis vs. Sorreah/Sandswirl
i. Gate to Ombar with Gloves of Crystal?
j. Warlum... Fetch!
k. Ashio's Nightmare Hyren is a real nightmare
l. Imbuing attachment spells
m. Everyone remember Korremar?
n. Are Grubbles better than Ashio?
o1. If I pack hunt, does the lead fellow join the pack?
o2. Can I hunt defensively?
o3. How big can my Korrit Pack get?
o4. How well trained are my Korrits?
p. Crosseyed about Dream Cross
q. How well trained is K'Teeb?
r. Does reduction prevent?
s. How invulnerable does Targ'n need them?
t. Defining Defeat
u. Rayje's got Spirit, yes he does!
v. Mowat's trigger
w. Three-Leaf Clover vs. Trug
x. Kinship vs. Purity
y. The Prankster isn't very Ominous.
z. Myka was eaten by a Cave!
a1. Sorrowing Ogar
b-1. Energize doesn't stack.
c-1. Tunnel Parmalags can learn
d-1. Invulnerability DOES stack.
e-1. Harror, Nighstalker
f-1. Some Twunks are just better than others.
g-1. What does Page 28 say?
-----
QUESTIONS
>a) motash's staff and motash/d'jarvish: these two magi allow cards
>to come back to their hand due to their effects; motash's staff
>states that when an opposing card returns a card to your hand that
>you put the energy on your magi. Now seeing as even though the
>effect on the magi returns the card to your hand, seeing as an
>opposing card triggers the magis' effect does motash's staff still
>allow the energy gain?

RT - No. It is the opposing card that triggers the staff, but it is still
your effect that is

returning the card to your hand.

>b) Anti core creatures (example: darge) and corrupt: this has been
>bugging me forever, when a core magi plays a "corrupt" spell, and
>another magi plays an anti-core creature, what happens, does the
>creature go under the control of the corruptor, does the spell
>nullify, does the spell stay in play until an appropriate creature
>can be corrupted? please explain

RT - The creature triggers the corrupt when it comes into play. Corrupt
attempts to take control of

the Darge but fails due to his Resistance effect, and the spell is discarded
with no successful

effect.

>c) severos using its power against an anti- core creature in a
>discard pile, can you do it? i mean the creature is discarded, so
>does it's effect still protect it? what about if you have ashio in
>play

RT - Core Spells and Powers will not affect an anti-Core Creature. They are
therefore immune to

Severos's Mind Dredge. They are not immune to Core Effects though, so
Ashio's Weave Twist will

allow Mind Dredge to affect an anti-Core Creature.

>d)ashio's effect: when you turn a creature with an anti- core
>ability, does it refference it's original region still, seeing as
>the turn spell turns it into a core creature, doesn't that mean that
>it's powers and effect still can only affect core creatures?

RT - If an anti-Core creature becomes Core while under the effect of Ashio's
Weave Twist, then all

of it's text works as written. Weave twist will tell the card that all of
it's text that references

Core now references Core. :)

>e) Ulk+ gargagnor: does gargagnor's effect apply to ulk's effect as
>well. the wording is a touch different, but the effect still happens
>at the beginning of the turn, so doesn't that mean her korrits can
>gain energy at the beginning of an opponents turn?

RT - Yes, "The start of your turn" is functionally identical to "the
beginning of your turn."

>f) burrow and invulnerability: for burrowing, a creature can only
>loose 2 energy per turn from opposing spells powers and attacks, now
>say i burrowed an athik which looses 2 less in attaks, that means
>when it's burrowed it looses no energy right?

RT - Sorry no. Whwenever you change the results of something by applying
both a "cap"
to it (changing it to a specific number) and also altering the base amount
(such as reducing energy loss), the reduction is applied before the cap. For
example, a burrowed

Akkar will have the energy loss from any attack reduced by two by
Invulnerability, then the remaining amount (if greater than two) capped at
two by Burrow. (Note for your records that Athik has no such effect).

>g) valkan's effect vs burrow: valkan's effect enhanses his spells,
>correct? if a creature is burrowed does it still loose 2 additional
>from the spell if the creature can't be hurt by spells at all?

RT - Valkan's Pyromancy creates additional energy loss from an acting source
of
energy removal, similar to a Scroll of Fire's Effect. Because the
source of the energy loss is increased, any effect that caps that
source (such as Burrow) will also reduce the Pyromancy addition.

>h) sorreah/crushing heat/sandswirl vs nagsis: sorreah crushing heat
>and sandswirl cancel out opposing magi's effects. in the case of
>nagsis, when he is defeated and one of these cards has taken effect
>on him, does the following magi not become a shodow magi (same in
>case of the dark twins).

RT - If Nagsis is defeated while under the effects mentioned, Possession
will not be able to

trigger, and the following Magi will not become a Shadow Magi. The Dark
Twins will not be affected

in the same way however, as none of The Dark Twins' text is Effect Text.

>i) gate to ombor + gloves of crystal: i don't know if this works,
>but if i were to use gate to ombor in combination with a 4 energy
>creature (example agovo on gruk) could i bring it in with an
>additional energy, using gloves of crystal, for free?

RT - No, Gate to Ombor reduces the Cost of your Creature. The Strengthen
Effect on Gloves of

Crystal does not affect the Cost of your Creature in any way. It simply
states "you may take one

extra energy from your Magi and add it to that Creature."

>j) warlum: it says cards you can normally play, does that mean you
>are limited to cards of the magi's region, what if he/she is a
>shadow magi with agram's staff in play can you play cards of their
>original region?

RT - Warlum's "normally play" errata simply means that if you couldn't play
the relic out of your

hand, you cannot fetch it with Materialize.

>k) nightmare hyren + ashio: when nightmare hyren uses it's power on
>an opposing creature when ashio is in play, does the effect reffer
>to the region that the creature is originally from? example: ashio
>is the magi and his nightmare hyren uses it's power on a junjertrug,
>instead does the junjertrug now remove 2 less energy from weave
>creatures in attacks instead of core creatures.

RT - Yes.

>l) thrybe/ mohani and sttachment spells (sunburn/ sandswirl) since
>you have to place the spell on the opposing creature how does that
>work, can you still use the spell as a power on your creature
>without attaching the spell?

RT - Not exactly. If you Imbue an attachment spell on one of your
creatures, then use that spell as

a power, you end up attaching the Creature (with the spell) just as you
would have attached the

spell.

>m) korremar's power: when it says an opponent may only draw one card
>does it mean for the turn or during the draw step?

RT - As it says "During the chosen player's next TURN, he or she may only
draw one card." This

affects drawing from all sources, whether Effect, Power, or Draw Step.

>n) grubble: can you use 2 grubbles to summon an anti-core creature
>out of your deck?

RT - You already asked that. No, see answer d.

>o1) korrit & pack korrit + korrit's staff: if a korrit pack hunt's
>with a pack korrit does the pack korrit get an energy as well?

RT - No, Korrit Charge gives the benefit only to a Korrit that is using the
Effect: Pack Hunt.

>o2) how about when a striped korrit pack defenses, doe it get an energy
>too?

RT - No, see above.

>o3) can multiple korrits pack hunt/ defend with the same creature,
>example can 3 korrits pack hunt with 1 furok?

RT - Yes, you can combine Pack Hunting creatures.

>o4) also if i were to
>increase the number of times that furok could attack would the pack-
>hunting korrits get it as well?

RT - No, not unless the effect you used for the increase also specifically
affected the Korrits.

>p)rock yajo: can you just plain explain how that card works? i'm
>confused as to if the text applies to the new creature etc.

RT - Power - Dream Cross: First, pay the cost (discard Rock Yajo from play).
Then, choose two of

your creatures in play (one must be Weave and one must be Kybar's Teeth).
Starting immediately, and

until the end of your next turn, the chosen Weave creature can use any
Powers and Effects that are

on the chosen KT creature as well as any text on it's own card. For the
same duration, the chosen

KT creature can use any Powers and Effects that are on the chosen Weave
creature as well as on it's

own card.

Simply: In most cases you can put the two cards next to each other, and read
the Power/Effect boxes

as though each creature had been printed with both boxes on their card.

>q)k'teeb: does it's power allow it to copy multiple creatures'
>powers at once?

RT - It can only choose one creature per use of the power, but if K'teeb
stays in play long enough

it could eventually Dream Cross and copy every legal target in play.

>r) Woot: for effect savagery when you say energy removed in attacks
>can not be prevented, can it still be reduced with say
>invulnerability:

RT - No.

>s)targ'n and invulnerability: for creatures with invulnerability
>effects called something different (example: sandstone hyren and
>super invulnerability) does the creature still gain the benefits of
>targ'n's effect?

RT - No, Enhanced Invulnerability looks specifically for the Effect Name.

>t) ahron + chasm jile: when chasm jile is attacked and you defeat it
>in order to play a new creature, even though it was chasm jile's
>effect, seeing as an opposing creature triggers the effect, can
>ahron reduce the attacking creature to 1 energy?

RT - Using the Dreamform Effect to discard the Chasm Jile does not count as
Defeating it. Defeat is

specifically "discarded from play as a result of having zero energy tokens,"
or no energy and no

Creatures in the case of a Defeated Magi.

>u) other spirit spells as oppsed to spirit of rayje: all spirit
>spells say you can only play one spirit spell per magi defeated, but
>spirit of rayje says you may play 3 per game. If you had already
>played say 2 spirit of ombors and you have 3 spirits of rayje still
>in your deck, can you still play them?

RT - Yes, absolutely.

>v) mowat: when mowat attacks a creature that starts the attack with
>3 energy and gains more energy through an effect or has an effect
>that can remove additional energy when attacked (example: beeb) does
>mowat loose enegy

RT - Mowat's Skewer Effect activates when the attack is declared. Even if
the defending creature

gains energy after the attack is declared, Mowat will lose no energy in the
attack if the defending

creature started with 3 energy or less.

>w) 3 leaf clover: a friend of mine said this works, but i used
>trug's cataclysm power and he claims that 3 leaf clover prevents his
>magi from being defeated, but i believed that since 3 trug's
>cataclysm discards all cards in play, that his magi can be and was
>defeated, can someone explain if that works or not?

RT - The Magi is clearly a card in play, and would normally be discarded and
defeated by Trug's

power. This makes activating Three-Leaf Clover a legal move, and it
protects all of your cards

including your Magi. Trug really dislikes three-leaf clovers...

>x) grej & gate to ombor/ prek & kybar's fang: both of those magi can
>play both kybar's teeth and underneath cards ignooring regional
>penalties and restrictions, both those relics must be discarded if
>not played by a magi of a corresponding region doen't play it. can
>grej play gate to ombor without it being discarded? same with prek
>and kybar's fang

RT - They can play the relics, but they will be immediately discarded.

>y) the prankster and ominous prescence: it says that you can play
>core creatures as if they were kybar's creatures, so does ominous
>prescence work with the prankster's effect as well?

RT - OP says you may play Core "as if" they were KT... but they are still
Core. Prankster's

Surprise! effect will not bring them into play.

>z) carniverous cave and myka: since she is burrowed, is she affected
>by carniverous cave?

RT - Carniverous Cave does not affect burrowed Creatures. Burrowed Magi
have no such exemption -

Myka is affected normally.

>a1-1) sorrowing ogar and turn/ corrupt: with her templating rules as
>far as when she plays a core card it is considered underneath when
>she turns a creature, does it become an underneath creature?

RT - No, Turn does not play a creature, it merely changes control of a
creature already in play, and

turns it Core. Sorrowing Ogar's Vile Memories only affects cards she plays.

>a1-2) when using strag's ring with her, are core cards in your discard
>pile, when played as underneath spells, still considered underneath
>spells when checking for "purity" for strag's ring? what about when
>you move on to your next magi?

RT - No, Vile Memories keeps the cards Underneath only while they are in
play.

>b-1) in the case of effects adding energizes to creatures that
>already have an energize (case in point: yerthe adding an energize
>of 1 to a baby hyren that already has an energize rate of 2) do the
>energizes stack?

RT - No, you use only the highest Energize rate, energize never stacks
unless an Effect says

"Increase energize by X."

>c-1) grej & tunnel parmalag: i did this once, but i don't know if
>it's legal, grej adds the effect "invulnerability" to underneath
>creatures, but tunnel parmalag says cards can't prevent tunnel
>parmalag from loosing energy in attacks. but grej adds the effect to
>tunnel parmalag thusly making tunnel parmalag the card preventing
>itself from loosing energy in attacks, does that work or is that
>illegal...

RT - That works just fine.

>d-1) grej+ akkar: grej adds "invulnerability" to underneath
>creatures, but what about creatures that already have
>invulnerability, does the effect stack?

RT - Both Invulnerabilities will take effect normally. If Akkar is chosen
by Grej, Akkar will lose

three less energy in attacks.

>e1-1) harror, nightstalker: 2 questions here; 1) harror nightstalker
>says none for starting cards, yet she clearly starts off with
>cataclysm, so does that mean she can't use it or can she just not
>search for it at all?

RT - It means that Harror, Nightstalker has no listed starting cards on the
Magi, nothing more,

nothing less. Cataclysm adds itself to Harror's starting card list, so she
may search for it... but

also cannot play it while Starfire is still in effect.

>e1-2) when harror confronts a magi like
>sorreah who has open-ended starting cards (2 arderial spells, etc.)
>what is the template for that?

RT - Effects such as Harror Nightstalker, Redream and Ytrha's
Mantle do not interact with they keyword "any" under Starting Cards
(at least not until II prints a card named "Any..."). Risha is
immune to Nightstalker, but never did figure out how Ytrha got that
darned mantle to work. :)

>f-1) the creature "twunk" says when a creature that has less energy
>than twunk is attacked remove 2 energy from the attacking creature
>before energy is removed. what happens when you have more than one
>twunk in play and a creature you control has more energy than one of
>your twunks, but less than another?

RT - Both Timber Effects compare the energy of the attacking creature with
the energy of the

defending Creature. Only one Effect's condition is satisfied, and the
Attacking creature loses two

energy.

>g-1) relics: i know this is a dumb question to ask but for relics
>that shadow magi can play of other regions (or any magi/relics in
>this particular case) there's a regional penalty right? i didn't
>really get it for relics, spells and creatures i understand.

RT - Per page 28 of the VotS Rulebook, Regional Penalty applies only to
Creatures and Spells.

-----
NON-LEGAL LIMITED CARDS:

The following list of cards is provided as a reference to cite
current, non-legal promotional cards, and their expected legal date:

Power of the Creators: No date currently planned.
Tony at a Con: No date currently planned.
Dan (including alternate artwork): No date currently planned.
Ludi: No date currently planned.


-Rich Riley
Redeemer of Ogar
Magi Nation DUEL Rules Team