1. Do not answer rules questions on the list, even if they are not

preceded by a [RULES] note.

2. Old rules digests may be found in the Files section of the

listserv:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MagiNation/files

Please check previous digests before asking a question to be certain

it has not been answered before.

3. Include [RULES] in the subject of all rules posts, otherwise the

rules team may miss the question for the digest.

4. We must stress again the first rule; those who continually violate

this will be in danger of moderation.



RT = Rules Team





ANNOUNCEMENTS AND CLARIFICATIONS

1. Attaching vs. Affecting

2. Magma Parmalag and lasting effects of Powers

3. Definition of ‘you’ and ‘your’

4. Energy-loss modifiers in attacks

5. Shadow Rain and changing controllers and/or Magi

6. Trigger-on-discard effects (more Twee)

7. Savagery vs. Invulnerability

8. Move vs. Rearrange… again

9. Entomb, Cleansing, and Pet Project

10. Crush vs. Sandsifter

11. Dark Twins are Hrada, not Warrada

12. Phlouk’s Ringtesting

13. Cawh and Shell Game

14. Barqua’s Bubble and Vault of Knowledge Key

15. Defeating Kyg’n

16. Using Dreamwarp

17. Sandsifter and Risha

18. M’ck with Sandstone Hyren

19. Maximum number of starting cards

20. Starting cards and hand size

NON-LEGAL LIMITED CARDS



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ANNOUNCEMENTS AND CLARIFICATIONS



None at this time.



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1a. Can Sunburn be attached to Lovian (is attaching the card considered to

be affecting Lovian)? If Sunburn can be attached to Lovian, when a

damage condition occurs to Lovian to trigger the Sunburn, can Sunburn

damage Lovian?



1b. Is attaching a non-Arderial Spell (such as Sunburn) to a Lovian legal?

In this case, I assume the Lovian wouldn't receive extra damage from

the Sunburn. What if Haunt is attached to a Lovian? Is the Lovian's <BR>
Resistance still active when it is discarded? At what point does the

Resistance shut off?



RT – Attaching a card to something does not necessarily affect it. You

can attach Sunburn (and other non-Arderial Spells) to a Lovian.

Sunburn does not affect the Creature it is attached to, it only

changes the amount of energy removed by other cards. It will work

normally while attached to a Lovian. In the case of Haunt, the Lovian

will be returned to play on the Haunt’s controller’s side because

Resistance only applies when the Lovian is in play.

However, the Lovian will not become Core and can attack on the same

turn it returns to play. This is because the changing of region and

the cannot-attack-this-turn parts of Haunt occur while the Lovian is

in play – Resistance applies.



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2. Does a creature has to be in play at the time I discard Magma Parmalag

for that creature to benefit from the Parmalag's power?



RT – No. Magma Parmalag’s Power affects Creatures that come into play

after it has been used. Unless you are required to choose a Creature

in play (Agram’s Armor), or the card has been clarified to state

otherwise (like Shadow Cloak), cards that affect your Creatures for a

stated duration will apply to those that come into play after it has

been used until the specified duration has elapsed.



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3. If your opponent has taken/stolen one of your Creatures, is that

Creature still considered a Creature you have in play? If so, can you

return it to your hand as part of the requirement to play

Morag's 'Gift'?



RT – No. Whenever a card says ‘you’ or ‘your’ it is referring to the

controller of the card it is printed on. If a card says to return one

of ‘your’ Creatures to its owner’s hand, you can only return Creatures

you control.



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4. Your opponent has a Venger in play and has played a sunburn on one of

your Creatures with 5 energy on it currently. You have an Agram's

Armor in play. At the beginning of you turn you choose to use the

Agram's Armor effect on your creature with the sunburn attached to it.

Moving on to your Attack phase, you then attack your opponent's

Venger. What is the proper resolution of this situation?



RT – For this example, we’ll assume that your opponent’s Venger is at

2 energy and that you are attacking it with your 5-energy Creature

(with Sunburn attached). Your 5-energy Creature will remove 5 energy

from the opponent’s Venger, defeating it. Your opponent’s Venger will

remove 2 energy from your 5-energy Creature; 2 + 2 (Sunburn) – 2

(Shield) = 2. Your Creature will be left at 3 energy.



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5. After your attack step you still have a minimum of 15 on your current

Magi. You play a Gorath. You then proceed to take control of a

player's creature using the Gorath's power. Once you've obtained your

opponent's creature, you play a Shadow Rain on the stolen Creature.

This leaves your Magi with zero energy, and two creatures in play. On

your opponent's turn, they quickly finish off your Gorath, thus

gaining control of their creature again and defeating your Magi. The

question at hand is will your opponent's Creature that had the Shadow

Rain played on it leave play at the end of your opponent's next Attack

phase? If not, will it leave play at the end of your next Attack phase?



RT – Shadow Rain does not require that your Magi remain the same or

that you retain control of the Creature in order to work. At the end

of your next attack step Shadow Rain will move energy from that

Creature to your Magi as normal. Due to the errata to Shadow Rain,

this may or may not discard the Creature from play.



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6. My Abaquist takes over my opponents Twee; I now control the opponents

Twee. My opponent defeats the Twee I control. The Twee is discarded

from play and his effect is triggered. I explained that I am the

target of the Twee's effect, Even though the Twee hits my opponents

discard pile. Now here's the double Jeopardy. A friend to my opponent

said that the Twee first hits my discard pile, giving me the benefit

of his Effect. And then goes to my opponents discard pile also giving

him the benefit. I tried to explain that "only cards you own can ever

go to your discard pile" thus preventing the twice triggered effect. I

know there are a few more cards with discarded-from-play triggered

effects. I would appreciate some official weight to my argument.



RT – Twee’s Effect will only work once, and only for the player who

controlled the Creature when it was discarded from play. When the card

is placed in a discard pile, it will be sent to its controller's discard
pile, but its final destination will be the owner's.



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7. Does Woot!'s effect "Savagery" override Invulnerability? We ruled it

did, but we wanted to be sure.



RT – Yes, Woot!’s Wasperines remove energy as normal in attacks,

regardless of Effects like Invulnerability (or status effects like

Burrow).



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8. Ok, I saw the recent clarification of the "Move" effect, however,

there were still a lot of questions about this locally. The local

consensus was that "move" is a distinct effect, and, although it

involves a removal of energy from one creature, and an addition to

another, is not a "discard" or an "add". It was explained that this

was (in part) to prevent problems with cards like "Flame Control" and

a Magi like "Nara", who doubles energy "added". However, the

conclusion drawn from this is that "move" effects circumvent most

damage prevention/reduction, such as that of a Pylofuf or the Baby

Furok, since the "move" isn't the same mechanism as a "discard"

or "loss", as well as cards that are normally restricted from gaining

energy (i.e. the Deep Wellisk), since the "move" is distinct from

an "addition". Is this understanding correct, based on the most recent

clarification?



8b. Amanax’s ability says "Once per turn, when a Cald spell or power

discards energy from one or more opposing Creatures, you may add one

energy to Amanax for each energy removed." My question is does this

work with Syphon Vortex (his starting card)? It says move not discard.



RT – Move means “Discard energy from one card to add as much energy as

was discarded to another card.” This counts as both energy

loss/discard and energy gain/addition. It will interact normally with

cards that trigger on either adding or removing energy (like Forest

Hyren’s ‘Underbrush’ or Amanax’s ‘Pyromaniac’) or those that prevent

either adding or removing energy (like Tryn, Flame-Saver’s unnamed

Effect or Pylofuf’s ‘Burrow’). ‘Rearrange’ is different from
‘move’ –

‘Rearrange’ is not considered energy removal/discard or energy

gain/addition. The ‘rearrange’ mechanic is only found on two cards:

Flame Control and Gift of the Weave.



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9. Since cards that are regionally changed, by things like Scyalla and

whatnot, pretty much aren't changed until they are actually played -

how does Entomb fit into this? Scyalla actually references playing
the card within her power, but Entomb just says that the card is Core
now, effectively. The reason I ask, is because of the spell
Cleansing. If Entomb doesn't change the card that is chosen until it
is played, Cleansing would not be able to be used to return the
Entombed spell to the light side, correct? Along the same lines, if
Entomb doesn't change the Spell until it is played, does this mean
that Entomb cannot be used to deny a non-Core opponent their good
Spells, as their Magi would still be able to play the chosen Spell
because it is not Core until it is cast? Sorry if this has already

been addressed, but I was pretty sure that Cleansing was only

discussed in relevance to cards like Scyalla.



RT – Entomb and Cleansing change the printed region of the named card.

This change applies immediately (not just when the named cards are

played), and applies to copies of the named cards in any hand, deck,

discard pile, or cards in play. Scyalla’s Power specifically says that

it applies to Creatures you play, and does not work the same way.



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10. My opponent has a Sandsifter in play - and a large pile of other

Oracles. I use my Rockslide Hyren's Power "Crush." Crush states that
it is not affected by opposing cards when it is used, and the amount
of energy removed cannot be altered by opposing cards. Sandsifter's
nameless Effect states that you may discard an Oracle whenever an
opposing card affects Sandsifter to negate the effects of that
opposing card. How does this resolve if the Sandsifter is chosen as a
target of Crush? The new "as" timing seems to say that the

Sandshifters Effect resolves once he is chosen, but before any part of

the power takes effect - while once the Sanshifter is chosen, it seems

that the Crush wording would prohibit Sandsifter's Effect from even

triggering.



RT – Rockslide Hyren’s Power will operate normally until after

energy has been removed. If this loss of energy would discard

Sandsifter from play, you can then use its Effect to save it by

discarding another Oracle from play. If you do, Sandsifter will not be

discarded from play by Rockslide Hyren’s Power – however, it will

still be at zero energy and will be immediately discarded from play by

the game rules.



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11. The limited core card, Dark Twins is a double Magi. On the card it

shows a picture of Hrada and Warrada, but the card only says it is an

alternate Hrada. I was just wondering if it counts as both Hrada and

Warrada.



RT – No. You can play The Dark Twins in the same Magi Stack as

Warrada. In addition, Tomes of the Great Library and Warrada’s Ring

are not starting cards for The Dark Twins.



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12. Plouk's power ‘Ringtesting’ lets him put out a creature before the

attack step. I was using this power in my Bograth deck to put out

things like Anjer, Bolobob, Moob, and Moss Quido. But this issue came

up during a game I had: If Phlouk ‘Ringtests’ out a creature before

the attack step and then immedideately uses that creature's power

which causes it to discard itself, does Phlouk still have to pay the

cost for the creature at the end of the turn? I assumed that I did

not, but my Cald-playing opponent said that maybe I did.



RT – You only discard energy from Phlouk at the end of the turn if

there is an energy value to check. If the Creature is no longer in

play, you discard no energy from Phlouk.



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13. This came up in a tournament this past weekend and I ruled that you

could not use Shell Game with Cawh because you could not fulfill the

obligation of Shell Game since you opponent could not take control of

Cawh. The other theory was that since you are using Shell Game that

you are giving up control of Cawh (temporarily) and the trade would

happen. The player with Cawh was starting that he would get control of

his opponent’s creature (temporarily) and still retains control of

Cawh. What I need to know is what, if any, of the 3 possibilities I

have stated are correct or is the correct answer something different?



RT – Cawh only prevents opposing cards from taking control of Cawh.

Nothing prevents you from giving an opponent control of Cawh. If you

control both Cawh and Shell Game, you will exchange control of

Creatures normally – however, when control would switch the Creatures

back, Cawh will remain where it is (since Shell Game is now on an

opposing card); the other Creature will return to its previous

controller normally.



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14. My opponent has a Barqua's Bubble, a Vault of Knowledge Key, and

another Relic in play. I use a Spell to remove energy from one of his

creatures. When he activates the Bubble, since he has the Vault in

play, can he choose then to discard the other Relic instead of

shuffling the Bubble into his deck? Since Bubble says 'shuffle'

instead of discard, I ruled that he must shuffle it in, and keep the

other Relic in play. We were only playing casually, not a tourney, so

I would like to have an official ruling for future tourneys.



RT – Correct; the Bubble must be shuffled back, and the Vault cannot prevent
this.



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15. Kyg'n has no creatures and 10 energy. Kyg'n gets attacked by a 15-

energy creature. A friend argued that he was directly attacked, and

had no energy, fullfilling all conditions to defeat him. I said that

Kyg'n effect gets triggered after all conditions are met, which is

after the attack, which means he must be attacked once more. Who's

right?



RT – You are correct. An attack which removes the last of Kyg’n’s

energy does not defeat him. In order to be defeated, Kyg’n must be

attacked while in a state which would normally defeat him (like having

no energy and no Creatures).



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16. Can the RT please explain exactly how to use dreamwarp? Does the magi

pay the full cost of the creature plus an additional x (whatever the

creature is dreamwarping for)? What happens at the end of turn?



RT – A Creature with a printed starting energy of 5 that has Dreamwarp

can be played for 4, 5, or 6 energy. If you pay 6, it will come into

play with 6 energy. Until the end of the turn, any cards that check

that Creature’s starting energy value (Dream Balm, Ookami’s Drums,

etc.) will treat that Creature as if its starting energy were 6

instead of 5. At the end of the turn, the Creature’s starting energy

value reverts back to 5 (its printed starting energy value). This does

not add or remove energy from the Creature.



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17. Can I discard Risha from play to save my Sandsifter from being

discarded by an opposing card? Would this defeat Risha?



RT – Yes to both questions. Discarding a Magi from play defeats that

Magi. In the above example, you could prevent your Sandsifter from

being discarded by an opposing card by defeating your Magi, Risha –

however, when your Magi is defeated, all of its cards are discarded

from play (including the Sandsifter) by the Magi Defeat Rule.



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18. This question was brought up during a tournament. When using M'ck as

your Magi, are you able to reduce the cost of Sandstone Hyren because

it has ‘stone’ in it or does Stone/Stones have to be a single word as

in ‘Crushing Stones’?



RT – M’ck’s Effects state that the cards must have the “word” in their

name, not just the letters. It will not apply to cards like Sandstone

Hyren.



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19. If my magi has 6 cards in his/her starting can I search for all of

them in my first turn?



RT – No, you can search for up to five starting cards when revealing a

new Magi. If your Magi has more than five starting cards (like Strag),

you may only search for five of them. (Pg. 27, VotS Rulebook.)



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20. If my opponent used 2 vortex of knowledge in his/her first turn (I

drew 4 cards) and now is my first turn. Can I search for my 4 starting

cards?



RT – Yes. When you reveal a new Magi, you may search for any of your

Magi’s starting cards (up to 5), regardless of how many cards you have

in your hand.



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NON-LEGAL LIMITED CARDS



The following list of cards is provided as a reference to cite

current, non-legal promotional cards, and their expected legal date:



Power of the Creators: No date currently planned.

Tony at a Con: No date currently planned.

Dan (including alternate artwork): No date currently planned.

Ludi: No date currently planned.




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