1. Do not answer rules questions on the list, even if they are not preceded
by a [RULES] note.
2. Old rules digests may be found in the Files section of the listserv:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MagiNation/files
Please check previous digests before asking a question to be certain it has
not been answered before.
3. Include [RULES] in the subject of all rules posts, otherwise the rules
team may miss the question for the digest.
4. We must stress again the first rule; those who continually violate this
will be in danger of moderation.


RT = Rules Team

IN THIS DIGEST:

Announcements and Clarifications
1. Creature Types vs Classes
2. A list of Q's
3. Sorreah and that Belt
4. The Starting Hand
5. Nalo Knowledge
6. Another round of eight.
7. Staff vs Crown
8. Tainted Touching
9. Chogus and Flameburst
10. Ashgar and Korrits
Non-Legal Limited Cards List

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ANNOUNCEMENTS AND CLARIFICATIONS: COSTS

Previously, RT made the statement that a good 'rule of thumb' when
determining if something is an additional cost for the use of a Spell, Power
or Effect is whether or not you lost something before getting a generally
beneficial effect. However, this 'rule of thumb' is not an absolute, and
there are some exceptions. Because of this, we have a small addendum to that
unofficial 'rule': 'Whenever a Spell, Power, or Effect causes you to choose
something of yours that you will lose as part of the Spell, Power, or Effect,
regardless of which point in the resolution that loss occurs, it is a cost.'

Generally, it is common sense what is and is not a cost, and all cards are
played the vast majority of the time the way they are supposed to be. There
are exceptions when players prefer a strict, sometimes non-intuitive
interpretation of wording, sometimes even for the sake of personal advantage,
and in those cases these clarifications are made. If anyone is uncertain how
this addendum affects the way things have been played, then just ask.

Secondly, it has come to the rules team's attention that the Effect Imaginary
Friends on the Magi Emlob can and has been interpreted in a way that creates
potentially damaging precedent for future cards. Because of this, we issue
this clarified wording for the sake of removing this potentially damaging
precedent:

Effect - Imaginary Friends: Whenever one of your Spells, Powers, or Effects
counts the number of Creatures or Bograth Creatures you have in play,
increase the total by three.

This removes the confusion that Emlob creates literal "fake Creatures" with
his Effect, and clarifies the point that when he counts your Creatures or
Bograth Creatures, he merely adds three to the final total. Bog Stench will
be addressed in a similar manner:

Bog Stench
Until the end of your next turn, whenever one of your Spells, Powers, or
Effects counts the number of Creatures or Bograth Creatures you have in play,
increase the total by two.

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Zoz (zoz@b...) writes:

1. Creature type has been defined as any word found in the creature card's
name...(i.e.. JUNGLE Hyren, GIANT Arboll, Chaos PLITH, etc.) But what about
creature cards that have a category-descriptor in their second line? There
are some Paradwyn creatures that are defined as "Jungle Stalker(s)." Some
Magi have "STARTING: X, Y, One Jungle Stalker." Is "Jungle Stalker" also a
creature type? Can this be chosen with Scyalla to make them Weave, or with
Sarazen Outcast for his extra fighting energy?

RT – No; Jungle Stalker is not a Creature type. When a Card references a
Creature type, it can only choose cards with whole words in the Name of a
Creature on the card, ignoring plurality. The term "Jungle Stalker" is part
of the card's title, which is unrelated to Creature type; the only exception
is when the title lists "Alternate XXXX", then the Creature in question also
counts as a Creature of that type in addition to what's listed. Jungle
Stalkers are a sub-group of Creatures with related abilities, and the design
team wants cards to be able to key off of that group without also having to
lump those Creatures together with the same Creature type. This will not be
the
first group to make such a distinction as you will see more in VotS.

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Jason Sniegowski (jsniegowski@b...) writes:

2. Does orwins ring discard evil evu? Personal opinion on this is that magi
are never tecnically in play.

RT - Yes; Evil Evu is a non-Naroom card. The only time a Magi isn't in play
is when he is either defeated, or still face down in the Magi pile.

does the effect on the ergar stack? even though the effect gives the power
recent rulings with other effects state they don't stack (ie. the hurricane
orish)

RT – Yes; Spark does not say that you may not have multiple copies of it on
a single Cald Creature, therefore each Cald Creature gains a new instance of
Spark. Also note that Hurricane Orish wasn't a ruling, it was an errata to
the card.

if I play crushing surf to gain control of an opposing relic yet the only
relic available is one I already have in play what happens?

RT - You play Crushing Surf to discard four energy from a Creature, then the
secondary
effect of Crushing Surf is unable to resolve as it does not have a valid
target. You cannot have two copies of the same Relic in play so you will
receive nothing.

Korok (KT magi) says all the powers on my kt cards cost one less to use does
that affect the cost of using soreahs' dream on that power?

RT - Yes, but only if it is a Power copied from a Kybar's Teeth card;
Sorreah's Dream states that all cards that affect that Power also affect
Sorreah's Dream.

From question one above bloom now states you can use a power on a card in
play would ninx still be able to staredown off a bloom?

RT - Yes. Though Ninx is Weave, she fits the qualification of having a
Paradwyn Power because she is also a Paradwyn Magi.

Errata on Eye of the storm has made the card near worthless. However it does
not state you cannot use loaded dice or fate's whimsy on it would those
still be included in altering the die roll?

RT - No card may alter the result of your die roll for Storm Seeker.
Changing the number of dice you roll would be considered altering the die
roll, therefore you cannot use Loaded Dice or Fate's Whimsy when rolling for
Storm Seeker.

Does Gia pets ability stack with any other card drawing or limits? (ie.
korremar, a magi who draws three cards or warrada's ring etc.)

RT - Caps are always applied after reductions. Gia Pet will try and make
you draw one less than two, which is a reduction to one and then Korremar
only
lets you draw one card as the cap so you'll still get the one card. In the
case of Evu or a Magi who would be drawing more than two, where you would
normally draw three or more, the Impede reduces that total by one and then
Mind Shock caps the draw at one. Also note the clarification that multiple Gia
Pets cannot have
their Effects stack.

universal magi must pay a regional penalty to play all cards why would the
be when no one has to pay penalties to play theirs? (just kinda wanted an
explantion on this one really)

RT - Universal Magi are from their own region, which is a
jack-of-all-trades and yet a master of none. They must pay a regional
penalty for all non-Universal cards while non-Universal Magi continue to
have no penalty for Universal cards.

The Universal 'region' is what the Eliwan wielded initially from the time
they started using the magic of the Moonlands. It is the basis for which all
magic of the Moonlands is founded; later on, different regional founders and
elders tempered the practices and learnings of the Eliwan to tailor their own
distinct styles of magic, encompassing the summoning of non-Universal Dream
Creatures as well. While regional Magi had to learn the Eliwan teachings as a
foundation for their more specialized, regional-specific forms of magic,
Universal Magi never fully graduated beyond the initial Eliwan teachings,
either by choice (Rayje), lack of access (Tuku), or lack of practice (Tony
Jones).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dirt Devil (vampiresthemasquerade@y...) writes:

3. Ok. I was told that if someone tries to belt the magi, you cant cs it
because it says nobody can use that power or effect. my question is on the
validity in that. Sure, if you belt, say... avenger, nobody can use avenger.
Point being, unless you and I both are playing trygar,or you've somehow
copied avenger onto one of your creatures, nobody else could possibly have
avenger.

With sorreah, you suppress only one magi. If there were other magi in play,
their effects/powers arent in play. Point being, those powers or effects
arent in play. Yet you can cs suppress, can you not?

RT – You may use the Climbing Staff to stop Suppress if it only affects one
Magi. You may not use the Climbing Staff to stop Lockdown. Lockdown affects
all Powers and/or Effects of that which was named, but not the card it's
printed on, so even if the Power or Effect is printed on your Magi alone, you
cannot use Climbing Staff to stop it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jason Sniegowski (jsniegowski@b...) writes:

4. If I go first with a gia pet in play does my opponent only get four
cards? (vortex of knowledge affects initial card drawing)

RT - No; There is a specific process in determining your starting hand.
First, you retrieve all of your starting cards, to a maximum of five. Then if
you have less than five cards, draw until you have five. The only card
printed so far that directly affects
the Starting Hand mechanic is Dark Twins because they say you are allowed to
draw up to seven instead of the regular five.

As for the Vortex of Knowledge and any other cards that would cause you to
draw cards before you have gotten your starting hand, they work as such:
Vortex causes you to draw two cards, then you get your starting cards, to a
maximum of five. After getting your starting cards, if you still have less
than five cards, draw until you have five. If you Vortex of Knowledge Good
Ol' Ashgar, he draws two and then gets to go look for and retrieve an
Arbolit, Quor, Flame Geyser, Boomstick and Krawg if he has them in his deck,
but Strag would still have to give up one of his starting cards, the Gum Gum,
Parmalag, Bottomless Pit, Urhail, Strag's Claws, or Strag's Ring.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

shen_dugan (douglascamp@y...) writes:

5. What? I was under the impression that past Rule Digest dealt with this,
saying that Piercing would allow you to damage a player's Magi in the case
they had a CS in hand. How, when, and why was this changed if this isn't the
case anymore?

Also, what about a Nalo? It specifically says nothing can prevent the damage
(discard of energy) it causes due to its Power. Surely that means the CS
couldn't be used to stop a Nalo's Power from damaging a Magi? Besides the
Nalo, like the Flame Geyser deals damage across the board.

Then there is the situation where your opponent has the Arderial Guard Wings
in play. The Nalo should cut through that with no problem right? Then what
happens if you play a The Last Words right before you use the Nalo's Power?
Would the opponen'ts Creatures then take four damage or does the Nalo still
only do two damage? I ask this since The Last Words doesn't say, "nothing
can prevent the damage" it deals like the Nalo card does.

RT - As with your questions last week we'll reword this into what we hope is
your specific concerns.

Can you discard Climbing Staff from your hand to stop damage from any source
to your Magi while a Rayje's Sword is in play?

RT - Yes; Climbing Staff stops the Spell, Power, or Effect if only your Magi
is being affected. Because the Climbing Staff stops the Spell, Power, or
Effect from even attempting to discard energy, then there is no energy loss
to reduce.

With a Nalo using Tsunami, can any opposing cards stop it?

RT - Generally, no; Tsunami states that opposing cards "may not alter" the
amount of
energy removed, so it may not be reduced or increased by opposing cards,
though it can still be stopped by cards that make the Power "do nothing".

How does Tsunami work with The Last Words?

RT - Pyromancy does not remove energy from a Creature, it only allows the
Power to remove more energy. All Creatures in play would lose four energy.
Pyromancy also sets up a Global Restriction on the rest of your cards
however, so Tsunami along with the rest of your Spells, Powers, and Effects
may never even attempt to discard energy from an opposing Magi.

Finally, if a Burrowed creature has already taken two damage from one source
in a turn, couldn't the Nalo deal another two damage via its Power since it
seems to have a built in "Piercing"?

RT - By established precedence, if the Burrow status is granted by an
opposing card, the Tsunami will discard two additional energy (total of
four), since opposing cards cannot alter the amount discarded by it. If the
Burrow status is granted by one of your cards for some reason, however ,the
energy loss will be reduced.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Travis Chupe (chupstr2k1@y...) writes:

6. Can you climbing staff trugs' cataclysm?

RT - No; Trug's Cataclysm affects both your Magi and Trug. Climbing Staff
may only be used if your Magi is the only card affected.

could you then climbing staff anyother affect which targets a magi? (ie.
Kazm, his effect targets a magi)

RT - You can only use the Climbing Staff to stop Powers, Spells, and Effects
that are only affecting your Magi or Hand. Kazm's Hunter does not affect
opposing Magi. When a card chooses your Magi for its ability to affect that
Magi's cards, if the Magi is not affected it does not matter to the Climbing
Staff that he or she was chosen.

ok this one is dumb but a buddy asked me to bring it up. If Trug uses
cataclysm it says discard all cards from play including magi. Does this mean
you could technically burn through your deck and draw up your discarded magi
and play it? (It doesn't say defeat the magi, and if true how would playing
a magi as a creature work?)

RT - No; Magi are kept in a separate deck known as the Magi Stack and are
never put into your Draw Deck. If your Magi is discarded from play it is
considered defeated and you should place it on the bottom of your Magi pile
face up.

If I have two darkbreeds minions in play do they affect each other or do
they lose nothing from the effect smolder?

RT - Whenever a card refers to itself by name in its text, it refers to that
lone copy of the card; the other copies of the card in play still suffer when
applicable, and each of your Darkbreeds will Smolder the others in play.

Is giving a player a choice to discard cards a forcing to discard? (ie. I
play gloom which says you may discard a card or one energy to save each of
your creatures )

RT - If you are discarding cards because of an opposing Spell, that Spell is
forcing you to discard those cards even if you were able to choose whether or
not you had to discard them. If the Spell or Power wasn't used, then you
wouldn't have had to discard any cards.

if Adis is your magi could you climbing staff her effect upon defeat? it is
affect your hand but the effect technically is because she was defeated not
because i wanted to use it.

RT - Yes; when Adis is defeated, the Effect Haunt is activated. As long as
there is only one opposing player, that player may discard the Climbing Staff
from hand to negate Haunt.

If I play fog bank does that mean that my magi may be attacked if that is my
only creature in play?

RT - No; if there is a Creature in play you may not normally attack a Magi
directly. If the Creature may not be attacked either, then no attack at all
may be made even if you have to attack.

Can Emaal's effect be climbing staffed? (reason: the cost on the card is the
defeat of my magi)

RT - No; Sabotage is affecting your Magi, your deck (drawing cards affects
both), and your opponent's hand.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zoz (zoz@b...) writes:

7. So, this leads to the question: In light of the Dreamburn rule-reversal,
shouldn't the Climbing Staff vs. Sorreah ruling be reviewed as well?

RT - No; there are two entirely different situations being compared.
Climbing Staff can be played as a reaction to something that's final result
is affecting only your Magi or hand, so the check is made at that time. With
Abraxin's Crown, Dreamburn checks to see if the Spell is appropriate before
it is cast. Dreamburn states that if a Spell says it discards energy from a
single Creature or Magi, the discard can be instead changed to the other
Type.

In its simplest form, before the Spell or Power is used, read the text with
the Type switched. In the case of Spirit Drain, it would read. "Choose any
one player. Discard energy from the chosen player's Creature equal to the
number of cards in that player's hand." As you mentioned, this would only
theoretically work if you had exactly one creature in play.

Since there is no choice made and it is possible for the Spell to result in
an illegal case, it can not be Dreamburned. Dreamburn can only be used with
Spells and Powers that can choose to affect only one target.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Usagi (poohgoth@a...) writes:

8. Wouldn't CS work against Hradda too, doesn't his say, choose a magi? I
can't remember for sure, sorry if it doesn't.

RT - Choosing a Magi is not a qualification for being able to discard the
Climbing Staff to protect your Magi. Affecting a single Magi is the
qualification. Tainted Touch only affects your Magi, so you can discard a
Climbing Staff from your hand to stop one instance of Hrada using it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

loque(guildofthemagi@y...) writes:

9. heya RT! i was wondering if the effect on chogus would allow me to use
karkik's firestorm power to discard the largest opposing creature instead,
if i ony had one opponent.

RT - No; Exuberence refers to cards that check for the smallest or largest
opposing creature. Flameburst does not look at all opposing creatures. It
only looks at a specific set of them, the limited group controlled by one
Magi, so it cannot be affected by Exuberence; even if the smallest Creature
in play happens to beling to that Magi. It's similar to the Dreamburn ruling.
Exuberence isn't looking for net effect, it's looking for a particular card
mechanic.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Troy(jodo_kast@...:
10. Good Ol' Ashgar's Combat Reflexes Effect states that you can cast a
spell from your hand and Brushfire says that once per turn you can play it
fromn discard as though it were in your hand. My thoughts would be that you
can but I want to ask, can Ashgar cast Brushfire for 0 energy from discard
using Combat Reflexes?

RT - Yes; Combat Reflexes allows you to play a Spell from you hand at a cost
redcudtion of two and Brushfire says it may be played as if it were in your
hand.

When a Korrit or Giant Korrit uses Pack Hunt does it trigger Offense on
Strag's Claws? My thought would be yes, because Pack Hunt counts as the
Korrit's attack but can you verify for me?

RT - Each time a Creature attacks Offense will add energy to that Creature.
In the case of the Pack Hunt, when that Creature attacks with another
Creature, it is attacking and does get the energy bonus too.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NON-LEGAL LIMITED CARDS

The following list of cards is provided as a reference to cite current,
non-legal promotional cards, and their expected legal date:

Shivara: October 29, 2002
League Elder: October 31, 2002
Kayliel: November 2, 2002
Coral Pyder: November 2, 2002
Orlon's Ring: November 2, 2002
Owinda's Gift: November 2, 2002
Oranragon: No date announced.
Power of the Creators: No date currently planned.
Tony at a Con: No date currently planned.
Dan (including alternate artwork): No date currently planned.
Ludi: No date currently planned.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1. Do not answer rules questions on the list, even if they are not preceded
by a [RULES] note.
2. Old rules digests may be found in the Files section of the listserv:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MagiNation/files
Please check previous digests before asking a question to be certain it has
not been answered before.
3. Include [RULES] in the subject of all rules posts, otherwise the rules
team may miss the question for the digest.
4. We must stress again the first rule; those who continually violate this
will be in danger of moderation.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]