Okay, so you've played a bunch of LTTO games and you have a definite
preference for one type of game over the others.  You want to see more
games like it in the future.  Well, here's your chance!

LTTO is moving forward, planning for the future.  We have new models
in development RIGHT NOW, and we are always interested in peoples'
ideas!  So let me know what game types you've enjoyed the most, and
I'll try to make sure more games like it are added in the 2005 line-up.

Of course, a poll is an over-simplified way to do this.  Please feel
free to post a full message as well, explaining what you do and don't
like about specific games.

One thing I do ask though, is "don't knock it until you try it" -- if
you haven't actually PLAYED several games of a given type, but they
justy don't SOUND fun to you, please don't post that you don't like
them.  Similarly, don't vote for something just because it SOUNDS like
it would be fun.  If you have an opinion like these, feel free to
share it but just make sure it is clear that this is just what you
THINK the game would be like, not the results of experience.

As always, thanks for ALL of your input!

LazerTagTeamOps@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>   o LTAG -- standard grab-and-go game
>   o CUST -- customized every-man-for-himself
>   o 2TMS/3TMS -- Basic team play

So far, this is the bulk of my LTTO experience.

>   o HDSK -- alternate hiding and seeking
>   o HUNT --  Hunt one team while avoiding the other
>   o 2KNG/3KNG -- find the enemy King and protect your own
>   o OWNZ -- defend the Zone against all comers
>   o 2TOZ/3TOZ -- Team Zone games

Haven't played with a mature enough group often enough times to try most
of those.

>   o TAGM -- One player versus the world
>   o RESP/2TRS/3TRS -- have to respawn after every 10th tag

Given how few people have played those games, this poll won't be very
accurate for a while. ;-) But, The respawn game I played was fun. :)

-Greg

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
LazerTagTeamOps group:

What is your favorite LTTO game type?

   o LTAG -- standard grab-and-go game
   o CUST -- customized every-man-for-himself
   o 2TMS/3TMS -- Basic team play
   o HDSK -- alternate hiding and seeking
   o HUNT --  Hunt one team while avoiding the other
   o 2KNG/3KNG -- find the enemy King and protect your own
   o OWNZ -- defend the Zone against all comers
   o 2TOZ/3TOZ -- Team Zone games
   o TAGM -- One player versus the world
   o RESP/2TRS/3TRS -- have to respawn after every 10th tag


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LazerTagTeamOps/surveys?id=1479025

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

--- In LazerTagTeamOps@yahoogroups.com, Greg Gaub <yahoogroups@g...>
wrote:
> Not that any of the reasons are invalid, but some of them
> were kind of repetitive with the whole "11 games out of the
> box" and "customized games" thing. ;-)

I wanted to make sure things were addressed on a heading-by-heading
basis, and some of the features fit under a couple of the different
headings.

The post was actually intended to serve as a single URL I could refer
people to, because I've been starting to get several e-mails a week
asking what system I would reccomend.  Apparently people see the link
to my e-mail address of the various different posting boards, but
don't look far enough back in the archives to realize that I'm the
inventor of LTTO.  But since they ask, and since I honestly do think
LTTO is the best option, I want to respond to them.  Problem is, it
takes a long time to type an individual response and it interferes
with me developing new LTTO gear, so I wanted to have a "one size fits
all" repsonse I could put up here and send people the link to it.
Since some people might skip right to the "features" heading while
others might skip straight to "compatibility" or whatever, I thought
it was best to repeat a few things where apropriate.

> Still, I agree 100% that LTTO is the hands-down winner of the
> mass-market laser gaming market.

Glad you agree, and hopefully all these e-mails I'm getting mean a lot
of other people will soon be agreeing with us!  Next year is going to
be a LOT of fun!

-- Brian

Not that any of the reasons are invalid, but some of them were kind of
repetitive with the whole "11 games out of the box" and "customized
games" thing. ;-)
Still, I agree 100% that LTTO is the hands-down winner of the
mass-market laser gaming market.

-Greg

Another question I get asked a lot is "What gear do you reccomend I
buy for my kids?"  Well, I *may* be just a bit biased (heh-heh), but
of course I reccomend Lazer Tag Team Ops -- "LTTO" for short.  Still,
the question is asked in good faith, and it deserves a good faith
answer about why I think the system I developed is better than the
other systems presently on the market.

Please note that this response is only intended to cover the
mass-market systems available at retail, it does not reflect what is
available for the hobbyist who will build their own gear or for the
high-end field operators and players who are willing to spend several
hundred dollars per player for the basic start-up set.

That said, here is why I think LTTO beats all other mass-market
systems hands down:

(1) Availability
----------------
LTTO is the only major brand of tag gear currently being manufactured,
so far as I know.  Rumor has it that we have re-invigorated the market
enough that Laser Challenge (our primary competitor) may be restarting
production soon, but their quality has always been a bit unpredictable
in my opinion.

(2) Flexibility
---------------
LTTO is the most flexible system ever made for home-style Lazer Tag.
It automatically knows how to play 11 different games right out of the
box, keeps score, ranks players, and provides head-to-head
"debriefings" after the game so there's no arguing over who tagged who
and how many times.

(3) Expandability
-----------------
Each new LTTO model that comes out will add several new games.  The
new models will also "teach" the old models how to play in the new
games, so the old gear never becomes obsolete.  Also, while most of
the compettitor's gear may have a "special feature" on each, that
feature generally only works with other units OF THE SAME MODEL.  LTTO
is different -- all of the models are intended to "play well
together", allowing users to select the model with the specific play
features they like the best and still be able to play with and against
friends who have different models.

(4) Unique features
-------------------
LTTO is the only gear that has a HUD (Heads-up-display, like in a jet
fighter).  LTTO is also the only gear that knows how to make an area
"active" – for example, we can make your garage or carport act as a
"zone" which the players are competing to control.  No other system
does this, and we expect this feature will be protected by our patents
when they issue, so no other system should be able to do it in the
future.  (see note at the end of this post)

(5) Interactivity
-----------------
Once kids move beyond the basic "10-tags-and-you're-out" game which we
call LTAG, they can start setting up their own custom games, defining
all of the parameters of how the game is played – things like a time
limit, a number-of-reloads limit, number of hits until out, number of
seconds of shield time, and so on.

(6) Value
---------
The basic set costs just under $50 and is a complete set of gear for 2
players.  But where other systems previously on the market essentially
only played the basic "laser tag" type game, LTTO plays 11 games right
from the start -- and each new piece of gear we introduce adds several
more all-new games.  So it's like getting 11 sets of gear for the
price, which means the kids will play with it a lot longer than they
would with just a "one-trick pony" set.

(7) Compatibility
-----------------
All indications are that LTTO is going to dominate the home-style
laser tag market for some time to come.  It combines all the fun of
arena games and on-line multiplayer video games into something you can
play at home.  This means that most of your children's friends will
probably be playing with LTTO in the near future, and other brands are
not compatible with LTTO.



Note: most of the built-in games can be played with just the basic
2-player set, though you will need at least one more Tagger ("gun") to
play the Zone games described in item (4) above, as one Tagger must be
dedicated to creating the active area while the others play in the
game.  There is a single-player pack coming out any day now, I believe
the price for it is $24.99, or if your son's friends will be getting
LTTO sets themselves then there will probably be at least one spare
Tagger to use for this purpose.


At the time of this posting, the following gear is available or will
be available by approximately Christmas 2004:

2-Player Deluxe Set ($49.99) -- Taggers and Heads-Up Displays for 2
players.

1-Player Deluxe Set ($24.99) --  This is the same "Deluxe" model
Tagger and HUD as above, but is sold in single-packs.  The paint
scheme has been changed to camoflage colors, and the HUD is an
improved design that fits most people better than the original
2-player set's HUD does (the 2-player sets have changed over to this
HUD, but some early manufacture sets are still out there).

IRT-2X "Drone" model ($19.99) -- a lower-cost Tagger that does not use
the HUD.  Don't be fooled, it is not any less capable than the
"Deluxe" model, it is just sized and shaped a bit differently, has
improved ergonomics and sights, and hosts 4 new games.  Also has a
cool new software feature that I'll be able to describe publicly
about the first of December 2004.

Accessory Pack #1 ($14.99) -- includes a "red-dot" type aiming scope
and a vibrating "Thunder Pack".


Anyway, if you are thinking of buying Lazer Tag gear for your kids,
don't just take my word for it!  There are a lot of Lazer Tag oriented
groups out there, plenty of reviews on Amazon.com, and a host of good
ways to form a good opinion by reviewing independant sources!

--- In LazerTagTeamOps@yahoogroups.com, "ETn1(SW) Herda, USN"
<thelasertwidget13@m...> wrote:
>
> If that is too much action, the berzerker could have
> randomized "ON and OFF" times denoted by 2 unique sounds.  This is
a
> much less lazer tag style game than most though, so I don't know if
> Tiger would bite the hook on it.

Hmmm... interesting idea.  It would be an asymetrical game, like TAGM
in the Drones, but one in which the opposing team CAN'T fight back,
or is at least extremely limitted in their ability to fight back.
For that matter, I could give them the ABILITY to fight back, but
penalize them for doing so, say at several times the "Team Tags"
penalty.  So each opponent would start with a base score and lose a
point for each tag taken, 2 points for each tag landed on a teammate,
and 10 points for each tag landed on the Tag Master.

I could even do the inverse game -- SURVIVAL.  The TagMaster gets a
large number of hits plus maximum shields (99 seconds) but very few
reloads, and tries to avoid being tagged by the opposing team (the
assasins) who have no shields and unlimitted ammo, but can only take
a few hits.  If really backed into a corner he can try to tag one or
more of them out, but he is harshly penalized for it.

I would not assume that Tiger won't go for such ideas -- we plan to
have a LOT of models out there, and some of them might be just
perfectly suited to such "asymetrical" games.

--- In LazerTagTeamOps@yahoogroups.com, Greg Gaub <yahoogroups@g...>
wrote:
>
> Good stuff, Brian. :)
> -Greg

Don't forget your own game idea (shamelessly taken from your web
page, which I have linked BTW):

===================

Name: Tag Down
Description: Land as many tags on your opponents as you can in the
time allotted.

Settings:
TYPE: CUST
TIME: 2
RELD: UL
MEGA: UL
SHLD: 0
TAGS: 99

Rules: This is a basic Free-for-All type game. The time should be
kept short because people will just be blasting like crazy to land as
many tags as possible on as many players as possible. Also, shorter
time helps prevent anyone from actually being tagged out. Normal
safety rules apply, but basically just run around trying to land as
many tags as possible. Winner is determined by the debriefing at the
end, which is based on the CUSTOM game scoring rules.

======================

That sounds like a lot of fun, and obviously does not really reqire
any special setup or extra gear.  I like it!  Straight who-is-the-
best-shooter scoring without the likelihood of being tagged out
before the game can end...

Keep 'em coming!

OK, I've finally had a few free minutes so I have decided to upload
some photos of the Coastal Artillery Forts located at the Presidio in
San Francisco.  They are in the PHOTOS section at the left.

These batteries originally housed 5-inch, 6-inch, 10-inch, and 12-
inch guns on Dissapearing Carriages, and were intended to guard the
entrance to the San Francisco Bay from invasion in the early 1900's,
up through WWI.  Battery Chamberlin still houses a 6-inch gun on a
functional Dissapearing Carriage, and it's functioning is
demonstrated on the first weekend of each month.  Guess where I'll be
next weekend?  :)  Battery Chamberlin is the best-preserved of the
batteries and is open to the public 7 days a week.  Unfortunately, it
sits all alone and about a mile south of the other batteries :(  But
it would make for a great location to have a scenario game!

I hope to get permission from the Presidio park rangers to use these
forts for Lazer Tag games in the near future, so keep checking back
here for updates.

The shots of Battery Boutelle are taken from the parking area
immediatly adjacent to Merchant Road (just off Lincoln).  That shows
how close they are to parking -- a perfect location for a game!

Battery Goddfrey is located just to the left (south) of Battery
Chamberllin -- perhaps 500 feet away.  There are several reasonably
well-preserved artillery positions in a row there, I will try to post
more detailed photos later.  For now I just have the Fire Control
Pillbox, which as you can see is in pretty bad shape -- looks like
some homeless people lit a fire in there.  There were also a couple
items too disgusting to mention left lying around, real "souvenirs of
San Francisco" if you get my drift...  so the pillbox is not
recommended as a game point unless we do some serious cleaning up and
maybe a bit of reinforcing of that roof.

Battery Marcus Miller sits to the right (north) of Battery Boutelle,
and is in pretty decent shape.  It consists of 3 sections, a south
battery which stands alone but close to the central batery, a central
battery, and a north battery -- which has a spotter's pillbox in
decent shape as shown -- which is essentially immediately adjacent to
the central part.

There are two seperate trails each roughly 350 feet long, leading
from Boutelle to the south battery of Marcus Miller.  Less than 100
feet seperates Marcus Miller's south battery from the central part.
Boutelle has no interior passages open to the public and no
handrails, so is of limitted use as a zone of contention in a game.
The north battery of Marcus Miller is used as a storage facility by
the Parks Department, so is also of limitted use.  But the south
battery of Marcus Miller has two neat passages leading underneath the
gun platforms, stairs leading up and down between levels that are in
good shape, and a lot of neat "hidey-hole" features and good cover.
It seems to me that we could have a great game set-up in which Team 1
spawns at Boutelle and Team 2 spawns at Marcus Miller North, and they
are competing to control Marcus Miller south.  Team 1 has 2 different
approaches and woods for cover, while Team 2 is closer to the active
zone and has good concrete pillars and such for cover.

There are also a number of great picnic areas around Chamberlin, and
some hills and woods surrounding it that look like they will be good
places for games.  It was getting quiter alte by the time I got to
Chamberlin, so I did not have time to explaore as much as I like.
But I'll be back, to get more deatailed information about Goddfrey's
batteries and also several of the other batteries in the area which I
did not have time to visit that day.

Brian Farley wrote a TON of stuff:

Good stuff, Brian. :)
-Greg

On the same note as berzerker, except that the berzerker tagger gets
no score (except a time)  Run the game like this:  The berzerker is
the tagmaster, and the rest of the players are scored individually
and as team 2.  The sole goal of the berzerker is to chase down the
rest of the players.  The players have no ammo, very limited shields
and however many tags.  The score at the end of the game is based on
how many tags a player has left.  Sort of like another version of
hide and seek, only with a definitely more urgent feel to it.  Would
be best played in a place with lots of corners or obstacles and the
berzerkers tagger should probably be set to indoor mode at least for
beginners.  If that is too much action, the berzerker could have
randomized "ON and OFF" times denoted by 2 unique sounds.  This is a
much less lazer tag style game than most though, so I don't know if
Tiger would bite the hook on it.

Oops, already disregarding my own instructions :(

The "Best Set Ups" post below should have been in this thread.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/LazerTagTeamOps/message/18

I often get asked, "what is the best way to set up barricades for a
game?".  While the answer will change depending on what kind of area
you are playing in, the following guidelines generally apply:

Zone games (OWNZ, 2TOZ, 3TOZ) need a protected zone area which has
preferably only one entrance/exit, but some sort of barricades or
other cover outside that door perhaps 20-30 feet away, offset to
either side to allow players to cover the zone entrance. You don't
want people being able to hold their Taggers up over the top of the
zone walls and fire tags into it to clear the zone. Similarly, you
probably want at least a divider or two inside the zone if it has
any "portholes" to fire out through, so that tags fired back in
through these portholes don't tag out all of the defenders in the
zone regardless of their location.  If you are custom-building a
zone, I would reccomend black or other non-infra-red reflective paint
inside the zone.

LTAG and CUST games are for individual players, so you want a lot of
small 1-person cubbyholes that are not exposed from all directions.
They should be close enough together to ensure that a player can
reasonably move from one to another during the standard 10-second
shields duration.  Remember that you will be getting slower as you
get tired, so think about how far you can get in 10 seconds when you
are TIRED, not when you are fresh and ready.

2TMS and 3TMS should have several larger barricade locations, shaped
like a bowl on its side. This allows groups of players to work
together, using the barricades as cover from one direction while
providing support for one another in the other directions. There
should be plenty of the single-player barricades (like for LTAG and
CUST games) sprinked between, with the same 10-second rule, but the
major barricades should be further apart than a player can run in 10
seconds. This encourages proper teamwork in covering the movements of
your team-mates to protect them while they are exposed.

2KNG, 2KNG, HDSK and HUNT are really not good barricade style games --
  they are much better suited to either forests or large indoor spaces
with lots of small rooms and other good places to hide.

Here's another DIY game that I dreamed up a while back:  "HUNT THE
HOOBLICKI."  Never mind the weird name -- I wanted to call it "Hunt
The Wumpus" after a very famous (and very OLD) computer game, but
that name is trademarked so I can't use it.  rubba-stubba-rizzer-
frazzer....

This game is set-up as a HUNT game, but played like a HDSK game.  You
need a number of spare Taggers to be the HOOBLICKI (targets) and some
non-playing referees.

(1) Set the game up for about 6-8 minutes longer than you actually
want it to last.

(2) Players join either Team1 or Team2, while the ref's join the
HOOBLICKI to Team3.

(3) When the game starts, each team is gathered into their respective
starting places -- a referee or representative of the other team
watches each team to make sure no-on peeks.  Other referees hide the
HOOBLICKI in various tough-to-spot locations.

(4) At the signal of the master referee, the teams begin play (this
start signal should be timed randomly by the flip of a coin, heads
for even minute tails for odd, in order to maintain the random
hunting direction aspect of the HSDK/HUNT games).

(5) The teams try to locate a HOOBLICKUS and tag it out during their
60 seconds of hunting Team3, but they need to look out for the
players on the other team which will be hunting them -- remember, you
not only don't want to be found and tagged by them, you don't want to
give away the HOOBLICKUS's location to them, either! So anyway, for
any given minute you will either be (A) Avoiding the enemy while
hunting the HOOBLICKI, or (B) Hunting the enemy and trying to find
out if they have spotted the hiding places of any HOOBLICKI you
didn't know about.

(6) Game ending, debriefing, and scoring are as normal for a HUNT
game.

A further twist to the strategy of this game is "over-tagging" -- if
you tag a HOOBLICKUS during the phase of the game when you are
supposed to be avoiding Team3, it will "heal" the HOOBLICKUS (make it
stronger), up to the 99-tags-until-out mark. This will negatively
impact your own personal score for any tags landed ON THAT PARTICULAR
HOOBLICKUS. But if you designate that HOOBLICKUS as one which you are
not going to tag during the proper time for tagging it, your score
for good tags on that HOOBLICKUS will remain at zero -- it does not
undeflow, so your score can't go below zero. Now all your team needs
to do is designate a different player to each HOOBLICKUS known in
order to pump that HOOBLICKUS back up between hunting periods, and
the other players can score more than the standard number of tags-
until-out on that HOOBLICKUS, thus increasing their scores. Somebody
else on your team gets assigned to pump-up a different HOOBLICKUS for
you to score over-tags on.  It's kind of a low-down trick, especially
if the other team doesn't know about it, but hey -- that's life for
you.

Keep in mind, the maximum nuber of tags on any given HOOBLICKUS thast
can be recorded in your favor is also 99, so there's no point in
going to hyper-over-tagging.  It's just a sneaky way to exploit a
feature of the HUNT game to your advantage.

The following bugs and annoyances are known to exist in the early
production Deluxe models.  None are particularly bothersoome if you
take the corrective measures listed:

(1) Takes a "phantom hit" at the start of an LTAG game.  This can
happen if you were tagged-out in a flurry of rapid fire hits in the
previous game.  It does not affect any other game type.  FIX:  either
press RESET before starting an LTAG game, or start a throw-away LTAG
game in which you go through the T-Minus countdown, take the phantom
hit, and then cancel out of the game (2ndF+CANCEL).  Then restart and
play the meaningful LTAG game.  This bug has been fixed in a running
change to the Deluxe code, so it only affects very early Deluxe
Taggers.  The IRT-2X "Drone" and all future mosdels do not have this
bug.

(2) Shuts itself off in the middle of an LTAG game.  This can happen
if you go a long time (4 minutes) without pressing any of the
buttons/keys/triggers and do not take any tags during that time.  The
Tagger is assuming that it was turned on by accident and left
sitting, so it turns itself off to save batteries.  There is no
true "fix" for this, but it is easily prevented by simply pressing
any of the keypad buttons once every minute or so during the slow
parts of the game.  This automatic-sleep timer is disabled in all
other game types.  This timer has been extended to 10 minutes in the
running change to the Deluxe code and is kept at 10 minutes or longer
in the IRT-2X "Drone" and all future models.

(3) Shuts off in the middle of a game when 2ndF and CANCEL are
accidentally bumped at the same time.  Unfortunately, this is
intentional -- we needed a simple way to cancel games early if the
user needed to.  You need to be careful to protect thse buttons.
Future models either require a more involved key combination
(2ndF+CANCEL+FIRE+SHIELD all at the same time in the IRT-2X "Drone")
or have the 2ndF and CANCEL buttons physically seperated from one
another.  You could glue a small barrier between the 2ndF and CANCEL
buttons so that they cannot be bumbed at the same time.

(4) Wakes up constantly every time it is bumped or jiggled.  Again,
this is intentional -- we wanted to make sure people would not have
trouble figuring out how to wake the Taggers up after the paint had
been wrn way and they hadn't played in a long time, or maybe bought
their gear used and didn't get instructions with it.  There is no
user "fix" for this issue other than to take the batteries out when
not in use.  The running change to the Deluxe code corrected this
issue so that it will only wake up for a pull of the FIRE trigger.
The IRT-2X "Drone" model and all future models will also only wake up
for a pull of the FIRE trigger.

(5) In a limitted-reloads game, the final tag can be loaded up as a
Mega Tag and then the Tagger will refuse to fire.  This is also a
known bug in the early Deluxe code.  It is a very rare, but not
impossible, game situation.  The running change to the Deluxe code
corrected this bug, and the IRT-2X "Drone" and all future models do
not have this bug.

Suppose you want to set up a game where the Zone is, for example, the
entire inside of a barn or other large building, or multiple rooms or
levels within a building.

Or, suppose you want to have two or more seperate Zones, so that each
team mst not only defend it's own Zone but also try to drive the
other team out of their Zone and take it over?

Well in either case, you need more than one Zone Tagger.

The way to do this is:

(1) Decide on a game duration -- it must be less than 90 minutes.

(2) Determine how many extra Zone Taggers you will need to provide
all the Zone Areas you need (this is in addition to the Host Tagger
which will act as the Primary Zone Tagger).  These will be
called "Secondary Zone Taggers".

(3) Make sure you have at least enough Deluxe or IRT-2X "Drone"
Taggers for the Primary Zone Tagger plus all of the Secondary Zone
Taggers.  Make sure you have enough additional Taggers for every
player in the game.

(4) On the first of the Secondary Zone Taggers:
....(a) host a Zone game (OWNZ, 2TOZ, or 3TOZ) set for 10 minutes
longer than the intended game
....(b) JOIN 2 of the player Taggers into the game
....(c) cancel the game on the Joiners (press 2ndF+CANCEL or RESET)
....(d) start the game (2ndF+OK) on the Secondary Zone Tagger
....(e) remove the Secondary Zone Tagger to a location where it will
not interfere with additional hosting and joining operations

(5) Repeat step (4) for each of the remaining Secondary Zone Taggers,
if any.

(6) Place all of the Secondary Zone Taggers into their game locations

(7) Host the appropriate Zone game on the Primary Zone Tagger, and
JOIN all player Taggers into this game.

(8) Start the game as normal, play it as normal, and end/debrief the
game as normal using the Primary Zone Tagger.

This approach works because all Zone Taggers broadcast the same Zone
Signature -- it is not coded for which game it is part of.  Player
Taggers do not know nor care which of the Zones they are in -- as
long as they can see a ZOne, they are accumulating Zone Time.  Once
players have been JOINed to the Secondary Zone Taggers, the Secondary
Zone Taggers do not know that those joiners have left the game, and
will continue to be a ZONE for as long as was directed in the game
set-up.  The additional 10 minutes in their games is to make sure
they continue to genrate the Zone Fields for longer than is actually
going to be needed.

Note that if multiple Zone Taggers are placed close enough to each
other, there will be "hyper zones" in which your Zone Time counts as
double, triple, or more (however many Zone Taggers the player Tagger
can see at the time).  This is because each one is broadcasting a
Zone Field Beacon twice per second, and the player Taggers are simply
counting up how many of them they have seen while not neutralized.

Also note that if you are tagged and thus neutralized, ALL of the
Zones (Primary and Secondary) are hostile to you -- and the
same "Hyper Zone" rule applies to neutralized Taggers:  If you are in
a location covered by 5 Zone Taggers and you are tagged, you will
have only ONE SECOND (instead of the normal five) to get completely
out of all of the ZOnes, or you will start taking damage.  And as if
that was not bad enough, if you DON'T leave the Zone in that time,
you will take five times as much damage from the "hostile Zone" as
normal.

Lastly, note that you could set up each of the Secondary Zone Taggers
with different game durations -- this would make some of the
Zones "go dead" part-way through the game.  Each Zone Tagger will
display how much time it has left until it's game ends and it "goes
dead".  Because the debriefing signals ARE coded for which game they
are part of, being in the presence of a Secondary Zone Tagger as it
finishes its game and starts attempting to debrief players will not
cause your player Tagger to end early.

--- In LazerTagTeamOps@yahoogroups.com, "ferret1963"
<SpamCatcher999@c...> wrote:
>
> http://members5.boardhost.com/lazertag/index.html
>

Some time back, John Falto (owner of that board) requested that we
update our pointers to reflect the permanent URL of his board:

http://lazer-tactical-action-game.com/

My appologies for not getting this updated sooner.  Of course, the
old URL is still active at the time of this posting, but that's
hardly an excuse, is it?

Again, I can't reccomend that board highly enough!  Some of the most
creative and dedicated Lazer Tag players on earth can be found there,
so if you are new to the sport I suggest visitting that board and
saying "Hi!"

-- TagFerret

This thread is for documenting:

(1) game types in which LTTO gear is used in ways not originally
intended, to create new games

(2) field set-ups that work particularly well or particularly poorly
for certain types of games

(3) ideas for future game types to be added to LTTO.

Please post your ideas as RESPONSES to this thread, and use the
subject line "[DIY Game] _________" (fill in the blank with your game
name or description).  This will help identify these posts in the
list of messages.

Thanks!
-- Brian

--- In LazerTagTeamOps@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@y...> wrote:
> Might I suggest setting the list to "new members moderated" and then
> setting people to unmoderated after they post, or if you recognize them.
>
> The spammers are joining stealthily- they join and wait months before
> sending spam. They've started sending an innocuous post first just
> before spamming, I caught a few that I -didn't- unmoderate because
> their first post didn't really say anything and made me suspicious,
> sure enough within a day the same user sent a spam to the list.
>
> Polymorph aka Steve Greenfield

Doh! That's what I get for not reading all threads first.
Umm... Ditto! :)
-Greg

--- In LazerTagTeamOps@yahoogroups.com, "ferret1963"
<SpamCatcher999@c...> wrote:
> PS:  For now, this group is open membership with no moderation.  I
> know that's going to result in a ton of spam very soon, so at that
> time I will change it over to moderated membership (but not moderated
> postings for members in good standing).  But for now I want it easy
> for people to join and discuss things as we are just starting the
> process of building this group.

I run a few groups, and might I suggest using the "New Members are
moderated" setting. This way, even if spammers join, they'll reveal
themselves in their first post. You can then ban them and delete the
post with no one being the wiser. For legitimate members, their first
post will reveal that, and you can then approve the post and edit
their posting priveliges to "use group settings" which will allow them
to post freely. It's a one-time thing for new members who actually
post, and lurkers just never even come into play. :)

Just an imho.
-Greg

Welcome to the group, and glad to hear you're enjoying the gear!  Be
sure to pop in over at lazer-tactical-action-game.com as well.  You'll
find that both Andy and I have been (independantly) working on
approaches to adding sensors for the head, back, butt, or most any
other part of the body we can think of.  And be sure to "jump through
the hoops" of Tiger's website LazerTag.com to find out how to contact
their customer service department, and tell them you want back sensors.

As for the best places to play, my favorite spots so far (aside from
the Bremerton woods) have been:

(1) outside around the business park were I work (lots of cool shrubs
and building pillars for cover, a fountain down in a depression,
walled-in areas to hold the dumpsters and power transformers and fire
main connections, etc.).

(2) indoors in the same business park, using the central foyer area of
the 2-story building with it's stairways, balconies, hallways, and
elevators.  Sadly we can only do this for corporate games during
software development, the property management company doesn't want us
having public games inside for liability reasons.

(3) around the apartment complex where my nephews live.  Big fun!
Lots of places to hide in the underground parking, outside under
stairways and behind planter boxes and bushes, in between the
buildings, around back on the bike path, a small laundry room with two
entrances for a zone, and so on.

I'd have to agree with Andy that parking garages would be a great
place, though I haven't had any games in large parking garages myself.
  But the small ones around where my nephews live have been lots of fun.

Also, check with the local college campus to see if there are any
Lazer Tag groups forming there -- colleges tend to have some really
cool layouts with a nice mixture of open areas and cover.

Finally, going back to my Lazer Tag roots in the 1980's -- take a look
around for decomissioned military bases that have been turned back
over to the local parks department or such.  They tend to be large,
have numerous buildings with inset doorways, and have a lot of
visually interesting features.  I've seen a couple of decomissioned
former Cold War surface-to-air missile batteries and coastal artillery
bunkers here in CA that would be ideal.  But for the ultimate, check
out Fort Worden on the "where do we play" page of
SeattleLaserTag.com's website -- can't WAIT to attend a game there
some time!

BTW, isn't there an old aircraft graveyard near Palm Springs?
Hoo-boy, now that would be interesting....



--- In LazerTagTeamOps@yahoogroups.com, "yobdog1" <yobdog1@y...> wrote:
> Hey Everyone,
>
> I just picked up 3 sets of LTTOs yesterday and we played for 3 hours
> in our churches' sanctuary last night. It was cool, but there is not
> much terrain. What are your feelings on the best places to play
> lazer tag? I live in the desert (palm springs), so we don't have any
> of those forest things. Any other Ideas?
>
> Also while playing it does seem like a sensor on the back of the HUD
> would be very useful. Has anyone thought of hooking up some fiber
> optic strands to the front and back of the HUD and routing it to the
> sensors in the "orb" on top.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
>
> P.S. Me and my co-worker have them setting next to our desks and do
> some close range fighting a couple of times through the day. lol.

-----Original Message-----
From: yobdog1 [mailto:yobdog1@...]
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 3:44 PM
To: LazerTagTeamOps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LazerTagTeamOps] Where To Play & Added sensors

Hey Everyone,

I just picked up 3 sets of LTTOs yesterday and we played for 3 hours
in our churches' sanctuary last night. It was cool, but there is not
much terrain. What are your feelings on the best places to play
lazer tag? I live in the desert (palm springs), so we don't have any
of those forest things. Any other Ideas?

Also while playing it does seem like a sensor on the back of the HUD
would be very useful. Has anyone thought of hooking up some fiber
optic strands to the front and back of the HUD and routing it to the
sensors in the "orb" on top.

Thanks,

Jeff

P.S. Me and my co-worker have them setting next to our desks and do
some close range fighting a couple of times through the day. lol.

********************************** The Company reserves the right to review all e-mail. Your sending of e-mail is consent for the Company to review the content of your e-mail. Communicating via e-mail does not constitute an offer of coverage. Eligibility requirements and coverages can vary by state. Allstate coverages are subject to the policy terms, conditions, and exclusions detailed in the insurance contract issued at purchase. Quotations on insurance are provided as estimates and are not an insurance contract.

Hey Everyone,

I just picked up 3 sets of LTTOs yesterday and we played for 3 hours
in our churches' sanctuary last night. It was cool, but there is not
much terrain. What are your feelings on the best places to play
lazer tag? I live in the desert (palm springs), so we don't have any
of those forest things. Any other Ideas?

Also while playing it does seem like a sensor on the back of the HUD
would be very useful. Has anyone thought of hooking up some fiber
optic strands to the front and back of the HUD and routing it to the
sensors in the "orb" on top.

Thanks,

Jeff

P.S. Me and my co-worker have them setting next to our desks and do
some close range fighting a couple of times through the day. lol.

I have uploaded a .PDF file of the instructions booklet that comes
with the Deluxe model 2-player set.

Please note that this file is copyright and property of Hasbro Inc.
and may not be modified or re-posted anywhere else without their
express written permision.

It's just a quick mention, but it IS a full-page mention!  August 2004
issue, page 77.

BTW, for those who haven't bought LTTO and are just curious, the price
listed in Wired is wrong -- it's $49.99 for the two-player set which
includes 2 Taggers ("guns") and 2 HUDs (Heads-Up Displays).

Also, there is no indicator in the HUD for somebody elese locking-on
to YOU, there is a green indicator that blinks when YOU have locked-on
to somebody else, and also a yellow indicator for when you land a
solid tag on them, and a red one for when another player lands a tag
on you.

--- Brian Farley <SpamCatcher999@...> wrote:
...
> Like my mom used to say... "It's all fun until somebody gets an
> eye
> put out!"

There's a similar Klingon saying. "It's not really fun until
someone puts an eye out!"

No, wait, I guess that's not the same....

=====
Steve Greenfield               // Digital photography, scanning,
Polymorph Digital Photography // retouching, and photomorphing
253-318-2473 voice           // to your specs.
polymorph@...     //
http://www.polyphoto.com/  // Based in Tacoma, WA, USA

Thanks for the file!

It is if primary importance to me to keep Lazer Tag safe and ensure
that our reputation in the non-tagging community remains spotless, so
I really appreciate you taking the time to pull all of that
information together in on spot and putting it up here.

Like my mom used to say... "It's all fun until somebody gets an eye
put out!"

:)

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the LazerTagTeamOps
group.

   File        : /NoRealLasers.txt
   Uploaded by : alienrelics <alienrelics@...>
   Description : Why using real lasers, IR or visible, is a really bad idea

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LazerTagTeamOps/files/NoRealLasers.txt

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

alienrelics <alienrelics@...>

;')

Might I suggest setting the list to "new members moderated" and then
setting people to unmoderated after they post, or if you recognize them.

The spammers are joining stealthily- they join and wait months before
sending spam. They've started sending an innocuous post first just
before spamming, I caught a few that I -didn't- unmoderate because
their first post didn't really say anything and made me suspicious,
sure enough within a day the same user sent a spam to the list.

Polymorph aka Steve Greenfield

If you have just recently purchased or are thinking of purchasing
Lazer Tag Team Ops gear, this is the place to ask people who are "in
the know" anything at all about it.

If you want to hook up with other local players, this is the place to
start.

If you want to exchange ideas for modifications, variations on the
games, or custom-built equipment, you have come to the right group!

If you want to provide feedback to the creators of the game, suggest
new games/features/equipment, feel free to do so here but please note
that any such posts are NOT considered "priveledged information" --
so you would be giving up any rights for financial compensation.
That said, if you just want to contribute to the development
direction of LTTO for the sake of seeing the things you want become
commercially avaialable, theres no better a soapbox than right here!

Just so everyone knows, the owner/moderator of this group (me) is
Brian Farley, an employee of Shoot The Moon Products II of
Pleasanton, California -- or "STM" for short.  STM was founded by two
of the original inventors of the Worlds Of Wonder Lazer Tag system,
and owns the rights to the Lazer Tag name.  STM developed the system
known as Lazer Tag Team Ops which is manufactured under license by
Hasbro, under their Tiger Electronics brand.  As a result of this
dual position, being both officially involved in the project and also
an interested party as just a player, there are some subjects that I
will have to steer away from personally lest I violate the
confidentiality agreements which govern my employment.  You can also
expect me to "take the party line" on any safety or legal issues.

However, what I will give you as just an interested player is my
honest and open opinions on gear, games, etc. and try to be as
forthcoming as I reasonably can about what to expect from this line
as time goes forward.

My main desires in forming this group are to:

(1) Create a central starting point for people new to LTTO, where
they can learn more about the system and find other local players
with whom to form teams (especially around the San Francisco Bay area
of California!).

(2) Create an open forum for discussion of the gear and games, to
serve as inspiration as I continue developing new code and gear over
the life of the product.

(3) Give the great people on the Laser Tactical Action Games board
their board back, as I have been rather dominating their board with
LTTO stuff recently!  They are a terrific group, and if you are
interested in building your own gear, modifiying it, or getting into
the really high end of the game, they are definitely the people to
talk to:

http://members5.boardhost.com/lazertag/index.html

So please enjoy the group, post a reply telling everyone who and
where you are and what level of involvement you have with LTTO and
the laser tagging sports in general, and let's get playing!

-- Brian Farley

PS:  For now, this group is open membership with no moderation.  I
know that's going to result in a ton of spam very soon, so at that
time I will change it over to moderated membership (but not moderated
postings for members in good standing).  But for now I want it easy
for people to join and discuss things as we are just starting the
process of building this group.