Sorry if folks here are still mired in 3.5 but I thought starting a
4.0 discussion is what this eGroup needed.

   Well I've seen a Beastmaster at work and I'm impressed two ways.
First that once again R&D is incapable of balance when it comes to
animal companions and that they got out such a class so fast.  For
those of you who haven't seen one in play yet it is a melee striker.
Interestingly enough it is a version of melee striker that a
relatively inexperienced player can do, up to now playing a competent
melee striker required a very competent player, not so with the
Beastmaster.  I repeatably saw the player make judgment errors that
cost him nothing and he was the only first level at a table where we
were playing high.  His wolf pretty much rescued him every time and if
someone in the party went down it was the wolf, not the PC and the DM
was definitely not being sparing in his attacks.
   Any body else have similar experiences?

Pete(former druid player and when PHB II comes out once again one.)

stay druid and use one of the wildshape-feats.

finally my druid has chosen "oaken resiliency" that gives basically
the plant subtypes immunities for 10 minutes per wildshape spent.

while 10 minutes are not soooooooo long, it is still useful. an
interesting combination might be "oaken resiliency" with "fast wildshape".

while this is not as cool as the original, it has the advantage of
staying humanoid and having all the item goodies still active.

as my halfling isn't into the wildshaping business to much anyway this
is a good way to spend his wildshapes per day.

ciao

martin m.


--- In LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com, "Peter A. Willis" <aslan@...> wrote:
>
>   So in other words because R&D can't think outside the box they
> screwed up the higher level druid wildshape abilities.  That's just
> plain ridiculous.  And holding out hope for 4th to help is silly, a
> druid in 4th will look as little like a druid as the
> fighter/cleric/wizard/rogue do. (Oh please lets not make this a 3rd vs
>  4th discussion.)  I'm curious is there a p-class that my PC can
> change to that continues my spell casting and increasing my animal
> companion but drops the wildshape increases, since that seems to be
> completely nerf!
>
> Pete
>
>

Here are two classes that you might see access to take in Greyhawk.

*   Abolisher (Lords of Madnesss): casting 8/10, companion 10/10
*   Wavekeeper (Stormwrack): casting 9/10, companion 9/10

Each one has easy entry requirements and grants interesting powers.

--- In LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com, "Peter A. Willis" <aslan@...> wrote:
>
>   So in other words because R&D can't think outside the box they
> screwed up the higher level druid wildshape abilities.  That's just
> plain ridiculous.  And holding out hope for 4th to help is silly, a
> druid in 4th will look as little like a druid as the
> fighter/cleric/wizard/rogue do. (Oh please lets not make this a 3rd vs
>  4th discussion.)  I'm curious is there a p-class that my PC can
> change to that continues my spell casting and increasing my animal
> companion but drops the wildshape increases, since that seems to be
> completely nerf!
>
> Pete
>
>
> > > Not sure what you mean with the drowning and all...  If a druid from
> > an aquatic species (e.g., the aventi from Stormwrack) wildshapes into
> > a dolphin/porpoise, that character retains the aquatic subtype per the
> > Alternate Form ability.  And if a non-aquatic race wildshapes into an
> > aquatic creature (e.g. a shark), it gains the (aquatic) subtype,
> > allowing it to breath underwater...
> > >
> >
> >
> > as he shapes into an air breathing creature (porpoise) with LUNGS and
> > remains his aquatic subtype dependent on GILLS he will drown, as the
> > type does NOT change to non-aquatic.
> >
> > for non-aquatics there is the specific exception for changing into an
> > aquatic creature but the R&D did not include this exception for
> > aquatics . . . . .
> >
> > ok, if you see a porpoise still being able to use his lungs as gills,
> > then imagine an aquatic wildshaping into a wolf . . . . . no change in
> > subtype ===> exitus!
> >
> > ciao
> >
> > martin m.
> >
>

So in other words because R&D can't think outside the box they
screwed up the higher level druid wildshape abilities.  That's just
plain ridiculous.  And holding out hope for 4th to help is silly, a
druid in 4th will look as little like a druid as the
fighter/cleric/wizard/rogue do. (Oh please lets not make this a 3rd vs
  4th discussion.)  I'm curious is there a p-class that my PC can
change to that continues my spell casting and increasing my animal
companion but drops the wildshape increases, since that seems to be
completely nerf!

Pete


> > Not sure what you mean with the drowning and all...  If a druid from
> an aquatic species (e.g., the aventi from Stormwrack) wildshapes into
> a dolphin/porpoise, that character retains the aquatic subtype per the
> Alternate Form ability.  And if a non-aquatic race wildshapes into an
> aquatic creature (e.g. a shark), it gains the (aquatic) subtype,
> allowing it to breath underwater...
> >
>
>
> as he shapes into an air breathing creature (porpoise) with LUNGS and
> remains his aquatic subtype dependent on GILLS he will drown, as the
> type does NOT change to non-aquatic.
>
> for non-aquatics there is the specific exception for changing into an
> aquatic creature but the R&D did not include this exception for
> aquatics . . . . .
>
> ok, if you see a porpoise still being able to use his lungs as gills,
> then imagine an aquatic wildshaping into a wolf . . . . . no change in
> subtype ===> exitus!
>
> ciao
>
> martin m.
>

--- Martin <pentaclebreaker@...> wrote:

> as he shapes into an air breathing creature (porpoise)
> with LUNGS and remains his aquatic subtype dependent
> on GILLS he will drown, as the type does NOT change
> to non-aquatic.

While you are certainly free to rule as such in a home game, subtype (aquatic)
<> gills -- who really knows how things like chuuls or water nagas physiology
works?  Regardless, you're overthinking things -- it's magic, it simply works...

> ok, if you see a porpoise still being able to use
> his lungs as gills, then imagine an aquatic wildshaping
> into a wolf . . . . . no change in subtype ===> exitus!

If he stays in the water, I got no problems -- sure, it'll look funny doing a
doggie-paddle 100 feet underwater, but if that's what you want him to do...

Besides, such an argument is a moot point -- no PC races (TMK) available in
Living Greyhawk have the (aquatic) subtype, so we don't really have to worry
about just such a situation :-)

--- In LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com, Brian Gilkison <bgilkison@...> wrote:
>
> Not sure what you mean with the drowning and all...  If a druid from
an aquatic species (e.g., the aventi from Stormwrack) wildshapes into
a dolphin/porpoise, that character retains the aquatic subtype per the
Alternate Form ability.  And if a non-aquatic race wildshapes into an
aquatic creature (e.g. a shark), it gains the (aquatic) subtype,
allowing it to breath underwater...
>


as he shapes into an air breathing creature (porpoise) with LUNGS and
remains his aquatic subtype dependent on GILLS he will drown, as the
type does NOT change to non-aquatic.

for non-aquatics there is the specific exception for changing into an
aquatic creature but the R&D did not include this exception for
aquatics . . . . .

ok, if you see a porpoise still being able to use his lungs as gills,
then imagine an aquatic wildshaping into a wolf . . . . . no change in
subtype ===> exitus!

ciao

martin m.

Not sure what you mean with the drowning and all...  If a druid from an aquatic
species (e.g., the aventi from Stormwrack) wildshapes into a dolphin/porpoise,
that character retains the aquatic subtype per the Alternate Form ability.  And
if a non-aquatic race wildshapes into an aquatic creature (e.g. a shark), it
gains the (aquatic) subtype, allowing it to breath underwater...

.. Brian

----- Original Message ----
From: Martin <pentaclebreaker@...>
To: LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 3:01:47 PM
Subject: [LG_Druids] Re: Plant shape and other questions

--- In LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com, "Peter A. Willis" <aslan@...> wrote:
>
>   Okay my druid is now 13th almost 14th, I'm curious about what DM's
> have said about plant form and A Thousand Faces.  With the changes in
> Wild Shape I'm curious about the application of these two abilities.
> For instance does the character get plant type now?  Can the 13th
> level druid take trogolyte form with his Thousand Faces?  These are
> things that you use to do but now I'm curious...
>
> Pete
>

sadly, with the "errata" on "alter self" and all the "improvements" a
druid does not gain ANY other subtype from ANY of his wildshape abilities.

before the "errata" a druid in plant form was immune to poison, crits
and sneak attacks. since the "errata" a druid is little more than a
human in a sophisticated disguise. basically donning a costume and
pretending to be the "real" thing.

a druid from an aquatic species wildshaping into a dolphin drowns, a
druid from the prime material plane wildshaping into a fire elemental
(ok, only in HL game), will burn to ashes on the plane of fire etc.

maybe a coming to be druid in 4th edition will be back on his feet.

ciao

martin m.

--- In LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com, "Peter A. Willis" <aslan@...> wrote:
>
>   Okay my druid is now 13th almost 14th, I'm curious about what DM's
> have said about plant form and A Thousand Faces.  With the changes in
> Wild Shape I'm curious about the application of these two abilities.
> For instance does the character get plant type now?  Can the 13th
> level druid take trogolyte form with his Thousand Faces?  These are
> things that you use to do but now I'm curious...
>
> Pete
>

sadly, with the "errata" on "alter self" and all the "improvements" a
druid does not gain ANY other subtype from ANY of his wildshape abilities.

before the "errata" a druid in plant form was immune to poison, crits
and sneak attacks. since the "errata" a druid is little more than a
human in a sophisticated disguise. basically donning a costume and
pretending to be the "real" thing.

a druid from an aquatic species wildshaping into a dolphin drowns, a
druid from the prime material plane wildshaping into a fire elemental
(ok, only in HL game), will burn to ashes on the plane of fire etc.

maybe a coming to be druid in 4th edition will be back on his feet.

ciao

martin m.

Okay my druid is now 13th almost 14th, I'm curious about what DM's
have said about plant form and A Thousand Faces.  With the changes in
Wild Shape I'm curious about the application of these two abilities.
For instance does the character get plant type now?  Can the 13th
level druid take trogolyte form with his Thousand Faces?  These are
things that you use to do but now I'm curious...

Pete

>Given that the spell does not indicate cover or concealment
> by a technical reading it suggests there is none.

>One could say the same about the 'wall of stone' spell -- no mention
whatsoever of cover or concealment in the spell, but one would hard-pressed
to >argue that it doesn't provide the same ;)

I agree with your train of thought.  If I recall correctly it was debated
pretty heavily on Infinite Monkeys and there was no good consensus about
cover vs. no cover which is the reason for the always unsatisfying answer of
- expect table variation.    If it were me I would give something inside at
least soft cover, but not hard cover.  Somebody once said that in one of the
complete books there was a picture of the spell which made it seem like it
provided no cover.  However I have not been able to find that illustration
(not that it would impact the RAW).

> Keep in mind that the spell says, "...can pass unhindered though a
> wall of thorns at normal speed..". A druid's normal speed using
> Woodland Stride is land based speed. Thus the idea of climbing it
> seems acceptable. Woodland Stride would allow one to move through
> overgrowth with out suffering damage or impediment so i could see
> climbing it (per climb skill) at a DC to TBD by the DM with out
> taking damage.

>Mea culpa -- I was looking specifically for "woodland stride", not the
generic text that's in the spell. Oh well... That's what I get for not
playing my druid >very often.

There is still a few months left =)  Then there will be 4E and of course we
won't have to have these discussion anymore because it will "Fix Everything"
right? ;-)



>Nonetheless, even without damage, I'd still say you have to actually Climb
it -- looking at the entries in the Climb skill for comparison, I'd likely
put it at >a DC 10...

Somehow the idea of a 9th level or higher druid climbing up his own WoT
spell is quite humorous.  Reminds me of the time in Red Hand just after
fighting the big finale at the end, being almost depleted of most good
spells, it came down to summoning regular wolves to act as roadblocks in the
"oh crap there is still one bad guy to go and I have nothing left to throw"
encounter.



Happy gaming,



Scott



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Scott Cahn <scotthere@...> wrote:

> Given that the spell does not indicate cover or concealment
> by a technical reading it suggests there is none.

One could say the same about the 'wall of stone' spell -- no mention whatsoever
of cover or concealment in the spell, but one would hard-pressed to argue that
it doesn't provide the same ;)

> Keep in mind that the spell says, "...can pass unhindered though a
> wall of thorns at normal speed..".  A druid's normal speed using
> Woodland Stride is land based speed. Thus the idea of climbing it
> seems acceptable.  Woodland Stride would allow one to move through
> overgrowth with out suffering damage or impediment so i could see
> climbing it (per climb skill) at a DC to TBD by the DM with out
> taking damage.

Mea culpa -- I was looking specifically for "woodland stride", not the generic
text that's in the spell.  Oh well...  That's what I get for not playing my
druid very often.

Nonetheless, even without damage, I'd still say you have to actually Climb it --
looking at the entries in the Climb skill for comparison, I'd likely put it at a
DC 10...

--- In LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com, Brian Gilkison <bgilkison@...>
wrote:
>
> --- Hendrik <hendrikn76@...> wrote:
>
> > 1:Does the WoT give any cover or concealment when shooting into
or out
> > of it. It isn't mentionend anywhere in the rules. Does anyone
know a
> > Sage Advice or similiar source of information about it?
>
> "...a barrier of very tough, pliable, tangled brush bearing needle-
sharp thorns as long as a human’s finger" and it takes 10 minutes
to hack a hole 1 foot deep into it with edged weapons.  Common sense
(and spirit of the rules, IMHO) says that that provides both cover
and concealment -- possibly total cover and total concealment even.

This has always been controversial.  Expect table variation.  I have
never personally seen a DM rule total cover/concealment and my druid
uses this spell all the time.  Given that the spell does not indicate
cover or concealment by a technical reading it suggests there is none.

>
> > 2: If you stack the 10 ft. cubes above each other to build some
kind
> > of tower, can a creature with the Woodland Stride feature walk
upwards
> > in it like on stairs or does he have to climb it?
>
> "Despite its appearance, a wall of thorns is not actually a living
plant, and thus is unaffected by spells that affect plants."  I would
say that extends to the Woodland Stride feature as well, since "...
thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically
manipulated to impede motion still affect her."
>
> So Climb it is.  I'd say you're also exposing yourself to the
thorns and damaging yourself by trying to climb it, although not as
much damage as if you were trying to force yourself *through* it --
say half or quarter damage of what you'd normally take...
>


Keep in mind that the spell says, "...can pass unhindered though a
wall of thorns at normal speed..".  A druid's normal speed using
Woodland Stride is land based speed. Thus the idea of climbing it
seems acceptable.  Woodland Stride would allow one to move through
overgrowth with out suffering damage or impediment so i could see
climbing it (per climb skill) at a DC to TBD by the DM with out
taking damage.

Just my two cp's

Scott

Thanks for your reply!

>"Common sense (and spirit of the rules, IMHO) says that that provides
both cover and concealment -- possibly total cover and total
concealment even."
It sounds like that but there is nothing mentioned about it, like with
Solid Fog or similiar spells.I'm searching for an official ruling to
avoid table variation.Does anyone know something?

2: It is specifically mentioned in the spell description that a
creature   with Woodland Stride (or a similiar feature) is unaffected
by it AND can move FREELY through it without taking any damage.
Thats why I'm asking about moving upwards because it says "..move
freely.."in it.

Thanks again!
Hendrik

--- Hendrik <hendrikn76@...> wrote:

> 1:Does the WoT give any cover or concealment when shooting into or out
> of it. It isn't mentionend anywhere in the rules. Does anyone know a
> Sage Advice or similiar source of information about it?

"...a barrier of very tough, pliable, tangled brush bearing needle-sharp thorns
as long as a human’s finger" and it takes 10 minutes to hack a hole 1 foot
deep into it with edged weapons.  Common sense (and spirit of the rules, IMHO)
says that that provides both cover and concealment -- possibly total cover and
total concealment even.

> 2: If you stack the 10 ft. cubes above each other to build some kind
> of tower, can a creature with the Woodland Stride feature walk upwards
> in it like on stairs or does he have to climb it?

"Despite its appearance, a wall of thorns is not actually a living plant, and
thus is unaffected by spells that affect plants."  I would say that extends to
the Woodland Stride feature as well, since "... thorns, briars, and overgrown
areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect her."

So Climb it is.  I'd say you're also exposing yourself to the thorns and
damaging yourself by trying to climb it, although not as much damage as if you
were trying to force yourself *through* it -- say half or quarter damage of what
you'd normally take...

--- Hendrik <hendrikn76@...> wrote:

1:Does the WoT give any cover or concealment when shooting into or out
of it. It isn't mentionend anywhere in the rules. Does anyone know a
Sage Advice or similiar source of information about it?

> 2: If you stack the 10 ft. cubes above each other to build some kind
> of tower, can a creature with the Woodland Stride feature walk upwards
> in it like on stairs or does he have to climb it?

Thanks in advance!

Greetings
Hendrik


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi,

I think the Wall of Thorns Spell is great, but i've got two questions
concerning it:

1:Does the WoT give any cover or concealment when shooting into or out
of it. It isn't mentionend anywhere in the rules. Does anyone know a
Sage Advice or similiar source of information about it?

2: If you stack the 10 ft. cubes above each other to build some kind
of tower, can a creature with the Woodland Stride feature walk upwards
in it like on stairs or does he have to climb it?

Thanks in advance!

Greetings
Hendrik

Druid is a prestige class.

Oh, if you insist: Pick up one level of Hospitalier. Ride your dire
bat animal companion. Use a wooden lance with Spikes. Craft a Belt of
Giant Strength. Now you can do some serious damage in melee and you're
only one level off in spellcasting.

-- Ken Jenks

Master of Many Forms is closed.

Josh

--- In LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com, Steve <happosaai@...> wrote:
>
> Personally I would say go back to Druid... only a few decent prcs
out there
> for a druid, but they mainly advance one or the other... Druid
advances both
> :)  Master of Many Forms might be fun if you don;t mind not
advancing the
> casting
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Hendrik <hendrikn76@...> wrote:
>
> >   Hi,
> >
> > I'm playing a Druid/Nature's Warrior who finished his 5th level of NW.
> >
> > Do you have any Ideas if there is another Prestige Class suited for
> > Druids which gives at least moderate Spellcating and advancement in
> > WildShape?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> > Hendrik
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com, "Hendrik" <hendrikn76@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm playing a Druid/Nature's Warrior who finished his 5th level of NW.
>
> Do you have any Ideas if there is another Prestige Class suited for
> Druids which gives at least moderate Spellcating and advancement in
> WildShape?
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Hendrik
>

I think two levels of War Shaper are worth it if you are a combat
focused wild shaper but it advances neither WildShape nor Spellcasting.

Rob

Personally I would say go back to Druid... only a few decent prcs out there
for a druid, but they mainly advance one or the other... Druid advances both
:)  Master of Many Forms might be fun if you don;t mind not advancing the
casting

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Hendrik <hendrikn76@...> wrote:

>   Hi,
>
> I'm playing a Druid/Nature's Warrior who finished his 5th level of NW.
>
> Do you have any Ideas if there is another Prestige Class suited for
> Druids which gives at least moderate Spellcating and advancement in
> WildShape?
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Hendrik
>
>
>



--
Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

I'm playing a Druid/Nature's Warrior who finished his 5th level of NW.

Do you have any Ideas if there is another Prestige Class suited for
Druids which gives at least moderate Spellcating and advancement in
WildShape?

Thanks in advance!
Hendrik

Keep the tortoise for now, then try the roc for a mod or two to see how it
works out? :-)

My AC dies in the last round of Red Hand also, but was just a normal tiger
advanced a few HD... just wish I had had the access you got for those
companions ;)


On 5/18/08, Galen Slinkard <reska.greyhawk@...> wrote:
>
>   Recently, my 10 Druid/1 Beastmaster had his animal companion finally
> killed in the last round of Red Hand of Doom. It's not too big of a deal
> since I can get another one (save for a few favors I used to increase his
> Con and Nat Armor). But in researching, I noticed that in 2 levels, I have
> access to a new and exciting animal. A roc.
>
> My question is: Do I keep the Dire Tortoise till the end of the campaign,
> or do I choose the Roc.
>
> Both have pros and cons, but I want to get some other druid's opinions.
>
> Turtle Pros: High Natural AC; High Hit Points; Huge creature which can be
> adjusted to either Large or Gargantuan; Decent speed for a turtle; and
> Lightning Strike (always has a surprise round).
>
> Turtle Cons: Land Based; Has only one attack; No access to huge-sized
> armor; Not allowed in many towns because of size and ferocity looking.
>
> Roc Pros: It's a Roc!; High Hit Points; Starts at Gargantuan (gives me a
> reason to use my Colossal Red Dragon as a mini); Flight Capable; 3 attacks
> plus snatch and drop.
>
> Roc Cons: Gargantuan means it can't fit in locations where a Large sized
> creature can squeeze; has the same AC as I do (which is less than 20); I
> have to wait 14000 xp to get it.
>
> Anyone else have any thoughts?
>
> --Galen
> Im-hakar - Asherati Wasteland Druid
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Galen Slinkard <reska.greyhawk@...> wrote:

> [...] Heck, the only reason I took the Turtle was for the
> coolness factor.  Only later did everyone realize what kind
> of word-that-means-bad-but-I-don't-want-to-say-it it can be.

Why not take something more practical (i.e., an animal that's Medium or Large,
and of lower effective druid level) and advance it?  Bonus points for treating
it like a companion and not a mobile artillery platform... ;-)

--- In LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Cronwell" <cronwell007@...> wrote:

> P.S.  Have you thought of taking Natural Bond to boost your Animal
> Companion abilities?  You can apply the bonus to your effective druid
> level after you take the penalty for an advanced companion.

1)  Natural Bond is NONC, so he might not have access to it.
2)  That's a very iffy interpretation of Natural Bond and frankly
something I wouldn't allow.

Josh

--- In LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com, "Galen Slinkard"
<reska.greyhawk@...> wrote:
>
> Recently, my 10 Druid/1 Beastmaster had his animal companion
finally killed in the last round of Red Hand of Doom.  It's not too
big of a deal since I can get another one (save for a few favors I
used to increase his Con and Nat Armor).  But in researching, I
noticed that in 2 levels, I have access to a new and exciting
animal.  A roc.
>
> My question is:  Do I keep the Dire Tortoise till the end of the
campaign, or do I choose the Roc.
>
> Both have pros and cons, but I want to get some other druid's
opinions.
>
> Turtle Pros: High Natural AC; High Hit Points; Huge creature which
can be adjusted to either Large or Gargantuan; Decent speed for a
turtle; and Lightning Strike (always has a surprise round).
>
> Turtle Cons: Land Based; Has only one attack; No access to huge-
sized armor; Not allowed in many towns because of size and ferocity
looking.
>
> Roc Pros:  It's a Roc!; High Hit Points; Starts at Gargantuan
(gives me a reason to use my Colossal Red Dragon as a mini); Flight
Capable; 3 attacks plus snatch and drop.
>
> Roc Cons: Gargantuan means it can't fit in locations where a Large
sized creature can squeeze; has the same AC as I do (which is less
than 20); I have to wait 14000 xp to get it.
>
> Anyone else have any thoughts?
>
> --Galen
> Im-hakar - Asherati Wasteland Druid
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Stick with the turtle.  The roc is cool but not very practical.  You
could only effectively use it in outdoor wilderness encounters.  They
are just too big.  They are not very maneuverable for air combat, the
Snatch rules are not very clear and involve grapple which leads to
slowing down combat and table variation.

If you know from the mod blurb that it is an outdoor scenario or you
have an outdoor combat interactive you could try the roc.  It can
also carry the entire party so if you had a lot of blasters and
archers in your group it might be an interesting choice.

Rob

P.S.  Have you thought of taking Natural Bond to boost your Animal
Companion abilities?  You can apply the bonus to your effective druid
level after you take the penalty for an advanced companion.

----- Original Message -----
   From: Rob Cronwell
   To: LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 11:09
   Subject: [LG_Druids] Re: Animal Companion Question


   Stick with the turtle. The roc is cool but not very practical. You
   could only effectively use it in outdoor wilderness encounters. They
   are just too big. They are not very maneuverable for air combat, the
   Snatch rules are not very clear and involve grapple which leads to
   slowing down combat and table variation.

   If you know from the mod blurb that it is an outdoor scenario or you
   have an outdoor combat interactive you could try the roc. It can
   also carry the entire party so if you had a lot of blasters and
   archers in your group it might be an interesting choice.

   Rob

   P.S. I think you are a level off when computing your animal
   companion. A Druid 10 Beast Master 1 has an effective druid level of
   14 when computing the animal companion. Next level you will have an
   effective level of 15 but the Roc requires a druid level of 16
   (level -15). You will need to be 13th level to qualify for a roc.
   .

Actually, I'm not off.  I know I have to be 13th, which for me is in about 14000
xp.  But thanks.  That's pretty much what everyone else said too.  Heck, the
only reason I took the Turtle was for the coolness factor.  Only later did
everyone realize what kind of word-that-means-bad-but-I-don't-want-to-say-it it
can be.

--Galen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Recently, my 10 Druid/1 Beastmaster had his animal companion finally killed in
the last round of Red Hand of Doom.  It's not too big of a deal since I can get
another one (save for a few favors I used to increase his Con and Nat Armor). 
But in researching, I noticed that in 2 levels, I have access to a new and
exciting animal.  A roc.

My question is:  Do I keep the Dire Tortoise till the end of the campaign, or do
I choose the Roc.

Both have pros and cons, but I want to get some other druid's opinions.

Turtle Pros: High Natural AC; High Hit Points; Huge creature which can be
adjusted to either Large or Gargantuan; Decent speed for a turtle; and Lightning
Strike (always has a surprise round).

Turtle Cons: Land Based; Has only one attack; No access to huge-sized armor; Not
allowed in many towns because of size and ferocity looking.

Roc Pros:  It's a Roc!; High Hit Points; Starts at Gargantuan (gives me a reason
to use my Colossal Red Dragon as a mini); Flight Capable; 3 attacks plus snatch
and drop.

Roc Cons: Gargantuan means it can't fit in locations where a Large sized
creature can squeeze; has the same AC as I do (which is less than 20); I have to
wait 14000 xp to get it.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

--Galen
Im-hakar - Asherati Wasteland Druid

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com, "Penn Davies" <seule@...> wrote:
>
> >> Secondary question, is using two metamagic rods on
> >> the same turn
> >> allowed?
>
> Allowed? Sure, if you can work it.
> However, each rod takes up a hand (all magic items must
> be worn or wielded appropriately to function), and most
> people only have two, requiring one free to cast most
> spells. It also takes a move action to draw a rod.

The "wielding" rules for metamagic rods is different in the DMG
description vs. the Magic Item Compendium description. The DMG rules
have some ambiguity to them that may (DM's option) let you use one
without holding it in your hand.

-- Ken Jenks

--- In LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com, 2 buck Chuck <tanathlagoon@...> wrote:
>
> Quicken ftw

Quicken.

There are a lot of low-level spells that are still useful at high APL,
but are not worth a standard action to cast. You're better off
spending that time to cast a higher-level spell. Quicken changes that
equation.

Here are some low-level spells that would be good candidates for use
with a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Quicken:

Entangle
Faerie Fire
Sandblast

Barkskin
Bear's Endurance
Brambles
Briar Web
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Decomposition
Embrace the Wild
Gust of Wind
Healing Lorecall
Listening Lorecall
Resist Energy

Daylight
Protection from Energy
Sleet Storm
Spikes
Thornskin
Wind Wall

-- Ken Jenks

--- In LG_Druids@yahoogroups.com, "Peter A. Willis" <aslan@...>
wrote:
>
>   As a player of a Druid Summoner who uses WS as a method to
survive
> not primarily to fight I'm aware of some of these answer but don't
> bother with them often.

Thanks for your responses.  My druid does have augmented summoning
but is also good in combat so tends to do both thus Wildshape is
used the same way - for survival.

>
> > 1.  I don't want to burn spells like Owls wisdom prior to WS
then
> > reequipping the Periapt.  Would the following work to avoid
loosing
> > bonus spells?  Wake up in morning, prepare spells with out the
> > Periapt of Wis on, then adventure and WS if needed, put on the
> > Periapt at a later point and then pray and fill the bonus spell
> > slots?
>
> I just try to avoid the problem completely by using a high base
wisdom
> and Ioun stone.  There are just to many chances of judge
disagreements
> and if you are going to be a spell casting druid just be sure to
use
> your bonus spells before you WS or don't WS at all.  If you going
to
> WS for combat don't worry about the spells...

Ken Jenks made a post around Feb 19-20 on this group which said that
the bonus spells are lost first.  I am just going on his say so
since its likely true, and i am too lazy to find all of the sources
to figure it out.


> > 2.  When WS into an Ape for example, and gaining its "climb 30'"
> > speed.  Does the +8 racial bonus and take 10 climb ability
remain?
> > My understanding is that racial bonuses are lost when one WS's
but
> > in this case they seem to be a part of the movement mode.  If
you
> > loose the +8 and/or take 10 then how can one still use the climb
> > speed effectively?
>
> As the man said just read the rules on climb speed which normally
> works if the climb DC is 20 or less (I believe, look it up
yourself.)

Its not that simple and the climb DC works the same as normal i.e. a
creature with climb speed still needs to hit the DC of the object
being climbed but it does get its "racial bonus" and ability to take
10.  The climb issues actually has to do with circular logic on the
part of the Wildshape /Alternate form errata which is why I asked
that question.  Per the PHB pg 69 and MM 312.  Any creature with a
climb speed has a +8 racial bonus to climb, and take 10 on climb
checks.  Alt form says "The creature gains the natural weapons,
natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of
its new form".  However it then makes statement which seems to imply
that it looses its racial bonuses.  This is circular logic.  If you
apply both sets of circumstances many creatures could not climb a
tree by taking 10 seeming to gut the intent of the first
statement.


>Hopefully they do a better job
> with v4 but I doubt it.  They seem to be unable balance the game
and
> they don't listen to there play testers.
>
Amen to that.

Scott