Thanks eveyone. Seems I'm just blind ;)


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----- Original Message -----
From: "Timlagor" <timlagor@...>
To: "LG DMs" <lgdms@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 6:50 AM
Subject: [LGDMs] MM5 monster question


> Could someone with MM5 answer the question below for me please?
> .
> .
> [blank space for those playing tonight to stop now ;]
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> What is the poison in a Vivisector's sting?
> Unless I'm being very blind (not impossible), neither the module I'm soon
> to run nor the Undermountain module I have actually tell me what the
> poison does ..best guess is paralysis DC15 but it would be nice to know
> what it's supposed to be.
>

You can find it in the Attack Options line - DC 15, 1d6 Str/1d6 Str

Could someone with MM5 answer the question below for me please?
.
.
[blank space for those playing tonight to stop now ;]
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
What is the poison in a Vivisector's sting?
Unless I'm being very blind (not impossible), neither the module I'm soon to run
nor the Undermountain module I have actually tell me what the poison does ..best
guess is paralysis DC15 but it would be nice to know what it's supposed to be.


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Hi all,

GenCon Indy's looking for GMs for D&D 4th edition
Living Forgotten Realms.  Check the details at

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?
> x=rpga/genconindy/volunteers

Sorry if this is a bit OT.

Jim


--- wavester <wavester@...> wrote:

> To: genconindy2008@yahoogroups.com
> From: "wavester" <wavester@...>
> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:52:39 -0000
> Subject: [genconindy2008] Slot 0 Co-ords and Updates
>
> Updated the co-ords header on the message board home
> page. So check it
> out. If you volunteered and I missed ya poke me
> again please.
>
> Also some of you already have (and that's great) but
> if you belong to
> a local RPGA list and think there might be
> interested judges please
> post and include the link to the Gencon judge
> sign-up page on the RPGA
> website (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?
> x=rpga/genconindy/volunteers)
>
> Thanks
> Dave
>
>
>

--- On Sun, 18/5/08, phalarnailo <andrew_dickson@...> wrote:

From: phalarnailo <andrew_dickson@...>
Subject: [LGDMs] Sinister Spire
To: LGDMs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 18 May, 2008, 12:08 PM






Two Question about sinister spire

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

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--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

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In the Adventure and in the Adaption PC find oil of stone to Flesh,
AR its flesh to stone, do I tell the player to change the AR?

Banrhialorg - it a masterwork Quarterstaff that also functions as a
lesser metamagic rod of extend spell. Can the Quarterstaff be
upgraded as a normal weapon? as they want to know before they buy it.



AR takes precedence; even when it's wrong. In this case it's unlikely they will
want to spend the gold for the salve anyway.

You can't upgrade named weapons unless the AR specifically says you can -and in
this case it doesn't sadly. Still useful if you don't have other access to the
Rods.



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----- Original Message ----
From: phalarnailo <andrew_dickson@...>
To: LGDMs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 6:08:05 AM
Subject: [LGDMs] Sinister Spire


Two Question about sinister spire

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

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--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

In the Adventure and in the Adaption PC find oil of stone to Flesh,
AR its flesh to stone, do I tell the player to change the AR?

Banrhialorg - it a masterwork Quarterstaff that also functions as a
lesser metamagic rod of extend spell. Can the Quarterstaff be
upgraded as a normal weapon? as they want to know before they buy it.

  REPLY:
When you read the LGCS it is clear that non-standard items can not be upgraded
normally...you have to have a generously worded favor or access to do so.

As to the stone to flesh/flesh to stone....I believe that the top part takes
precedence over the lower part.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Two Question about sinister spire

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

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--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

--SPOILER---

In the Adventure and in the Adaption PC find oil of stone to Flesh,
AR its flesh to stone, do I tell the player to change the AR?

Banrhialorg - it a masterwork Quarterstaff that also functions as a
lesser metamagic rod of extend spell. Can the Quarterstaff be
upgraded as a normal weapon? as they want to know before they buy it.

--- In LGDMs@yahoogroups.com, "Penn Davies" <seule@...> wrote:
>
> Swap out one spell with Spectral Hand?

I lean toward the "make them reach spells with rays" myself for
intent.  Although the one module I am prepping where this comes up
has the turrets are on a place where the other combatant starts out
sitting and are a mix of baneful and beneficial effects.  I'd likely
have beneficial target whomever is sitting in on the object and
baneful target a random target within 5'of the object, probably with
extruded limbs or something to deliver the touch.  Icky!

> I tend to use the CR as the bonus to hit on turrets. It's
approximately
> equivalent to the BAB of a wizard who could cast those spells.
Spell turrets
> are badly CRd and badly written up.

I use a kind of scroll hybrid on the range touch attack spells.
Attribute+halfbab where halfbab=half caster level rounde down and
attribute = minimum to cast the spell.  Eg, a CL17 level 7 spell
would have a range touch of 6+3=9.

But I'm pulling those numbers out of my rear end.

> When writing mods, I don't use 'em, I use encounter traps instead.

Yeah.  Those seem to work decently.  They also don't tend to have 200
hitpoints with 4d8+X healing every 5 rounds at APL4, which is nice,
as they can actually be destroyed in a reasonable amount of time with
APL appropriate parties.

--- Mike <rerednaw@...> wrote:
> Nope Encounter A occured and Boss A fled.  Modules states Boss A
> flees to Encounter B.  Encounter B leaves any mention of him out.
> That's why I think it is an oversight.
>
> The module expressly gives the DM latitude to increase the
> difficulty if the party is steamrolling through it.  Apparently the
writers
> realized that having a non-twinked on APL average party of 4 versus a
> playing down cheesed build party of 6 greatly changes the play
> experience.  :p
>
> I was deciding whether to put him in on a non-combat basis or to
> have him participate.
>
> Guess I will re-read and see if I missed it and then use my best
> judgement.

Since he had stats for Encounter A, use them (marking off spells unless it's
the next day and Boss A can re-load).

And are the writers from Keoland?  I don't know about most of the regions,
but it seems to me that a majority of Keoish tables go very good with strong
wines.

~Millie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If he's statted in the original encounter then just use those stats.

You should also allow the party to catch him in the first encounter
if they do what is necessary.

--- Mike <rerednaw@...> wrote:

> Nope Encounter A occured and Boss A fled.  Modules states Boss A
> flees to Encounter B.  Encounter B leaves any mention of him out.
> That's why I think it is an oversight.
>
> The module expressly gives the DM latitude to increase the
> difficulty
> if the party is steamrolling through it.  Apparently the writers
> realized that having a non-twinked on APL average party of 4 versus
> a
> playing down cheesed build party of 6 greatly changes the play
> experience.  :p
>
> I was deciding whether to put him in on a non-combat basis or to
> have
> him participate.
>
> Guess I will re-read and see if I missed it and then use my best
> judgement.
>


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Spell turrets, if implemented wisely can be a decently challenging and fun trap.
But as with many things, just because you can "technically" add something to
them, doesn't mean you should. SO far it has been my experience that the authors
who put them in are trying to be a rear end, they have no imagination, or just
don't know what they are doing. Now in a home game there was a really great one
used.....


----- Original Message ----
From: Penn Davies <seule@...>
To: LGDMs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2008 8:26:51 AM
Subject: Re: [LGDMs] Spell turrets with touch spells


Swap out one spell with Spectral Hand?
I tend to use the CR as the bonus to hit on turrets. It's approximately
equivalent to the BAB of a wizard who could cast those spells. Spell turrets
are badly CRd and badly written up.
When writing mods, I don't use 'em, I use encounter traps instead. Broadly
similar idea, much, much, much better designed and CRd.

--Penn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Timlagor" <timlagor@yahoo. co.uk>
To: <LGDMs@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 4:34 AM
Subject: Re: [LGDMs] Spell turrets with touch spells

>I think our GM had them auto-hit :-/
>
> It's bad bad writing and I don't think there's any good way to run
> it.  I'd be inclined to just make it trivial myself; they are a very
> poorly implemented concept in general anyway and I've yet to see
> anyone think one was a good encounter.
>
> You could base a to-hit modifier on CL and maybe size and pretend
> they are rays... that's probably still overly powerful but at least
> close to the intended challenge.
>
> --- t_r_slatyer <u3341930@alu
> mni.anu.edu. au> wrote:
>> Did we ever resolve how to adjudicate spell turrets using
>> range:touch
>> spells? Would you let them target someone in an adjacent square?
>>
>> It seems almost useless to put such spells in turrets (since the
>> turret
>> cannot move and has no reach), but I'm looking at an EL'ed
>> encounter
>> where 3/4 spells in the turret are offensive range:touch spells
>> with no
>> attack modifier listed, and I'm wondering how on earth I'm supposed
>> to
>> make this a remotely interesting encounter (as opposed to "Uh,
>> okay. We
>> don't go near the flashing turret thing?")
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Swap out one spell with Spectral Hand?
I tend to use the CR as the bonus to hit on turrets. It's approximately
equivalent to the BAB of a wizard who could cast those spells. Spell turrets
are badly CRd and badly written up.
When writing mods, I don't use 'em, I use encounter traps instead. Broadly
similar idea, much, much, much better designed and CRd.

   --Penn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Timlagor" <timlagor@...>
To: <LGDMs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 4:34 AM
Subject: Re: [LGDMs] Spell turrets with touch spells


>I think our GM had them auto-hit :-/
>
> It's bad bad writing and I don't think there's any good way to run
> it.  I'd be inclined to just make it trivial myself; they are a very
> poorly implemented concept in general anyway and I've yet to see
> anyone think one was a good encounter.
>
> You could base a to-hit modifier on CL and maybe size and pretend
> they are rays... that's probably still overly powerful but at least
> close to the intended challenge.
>
> --- t_r_slatyer <u3341930@alu
> mni.anu.edu.au> wrote:
>> Did we ever resolve how to adjudicate spell turrets using
>> range:touch
>> spells? Would you let them target someone in an adjacent square?
>>
>> It seems almost useless to put such spells in turrets (since the
>> turret
>> cannot move and has no reach), but I'm looking at an EL'ed
>> encounter
>> where 3/4 spells in the turret are offensive range:touch spells
>> with no
>> attack modifier listed, and I'm wondering how on earth I'm supposed
>> to
>> make this a remotely interesting encounter (as opposed to "Uh,
>> okay. We
>> don't go near the flashing turret thing?")
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>
>
>
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> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date:
> 02/05/2008 4:34 PM
>

I think our GM had them auto-hit :-/

It's bad bad writing and I don't think there's any good way to run
it.  I'd be inclined to just make it trivial myself; they are a very
poorly implemented concept in general anyway and I've yet to see
anyone think one was a good encounter.

You could base a to-hit modifier on CL and maybe size and pretend
they are rays... that's probably still overly powerful but at least
close to the intended challenge.

--- t_r_slatyer <u3341930@alu
mni.anu.edu.au> wrote:
> Did we ever resolve how to adjudicate spell turrets using
> range:touch
> spells? Would you let them target someone in an adjacent square?
>
> It seems almost useless to put such spells in turrets (since the
> turret
> cannot move and has no reach), but I'm looking at an EL'ed
> encounter
> where 3/4 spells in the turret are offensive range:touch spells
> with no
> attack modifier listed, and I'm wondering how on earth I'm supposed
> to
> make this a remotely interesting encounter (as opposed to "Uh,
> okay. We
> don't go near the flashing turret thing?")
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Tracy
>
>



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Did we ever resolve how to adjudicate spell turrets using range:touch
spells? Would you let them target someone in an adjacent square?

It seems almost useless to put such spells in turrets (since the turret
cannot move and has no reach), but I'm looking at an EL'ed encounter
where 3/4 spells in the turret are offensive range:touch spells with no
attack modifier listed, and I'm wondering how on earth I'm supposed to
make this a remotely interesting encounter (as opposed to "Uh, okay. We
don't go near the flashing turret thing?")

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Tracy

--- t_r_slatyer <u3341930@...> wrote:
> Just to confirm: unless I'm misreading it, if you nat-1 the first
> save vs area damage, the second save doesn't necessarily negate the
> damage to the item, just reduces it. Right? If your cloak or
> headband gets hit it's probably still gone :-(

that is my understanding.


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I think I've seen two generic 20% discount favors over all my PCs, and
a couple of very specific 10% discount favors (one was a 10% discount
on one DMG minor wondrous item of CL5 or less, one was a 10% discount
on any one +2-stat ioun stone).

Just to confirm: unless I'm misreading it, if you nat-1 the first save
vs area damage, the second save doesn't necessarily negate the damage
to the item, just reduces it. Right? If your cloak or headband gets hit
it's probably still gone :-(

On the topic of sundering, I remember one mod where monsters *without*
Improved Sunder repeatedly tried to eat my dervish's magical falchion.
He was completely bemused by this - he got a lot of free attacks out of
it and I think they did a grand total of 2 damage to the falchion,
because they couldn't bypass its hardness (and they weren't PA'ing
because then they would've lost the opposed attack roll). The problem
with sundering is it tends to be either ludicrously ineffective or it
destroys a lot of the player's wealth - unless the monsters have a very
good reason to do it I tend to play safe and have them just use their
normal attacks, as those are generally more likely to work. (For the
same reason, unless my NPC spellcasters are very specialized, they tend
to prefer battlefield control and mass debuffs to single-target save-or-
dies - the latter scares the PCs more but is tactically worse for an
outnumbered NPC.)

-Tracy

I've seen a couple (TWO) of 10% discounts (across my many characters)
and ONE 50% discount that I couldn't use with that character.

All of those have been in the last 18 months and all heavily
restricted in usage.
I have not been (and won't be going) to Dyvers

--- David <darkknight27@...> wrote:
> I've only ever been to Dyver's once and 3 of the 6 adventures I
> played had 10% discounts on item purchases and some very nice item
> access.
>
> I've heard of others, like core specials, favors from other regions
> out west, etc... that have given up to 50% off. So while they're
> maybe not common, they are out there and people sure seem to flock
> to  them.
>
> Good Gaming,
>
> David


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I've only ever been to Dyver's once and 3 of the 6 adventures I
played had 10% discounts on item purchases and some very nice item
access.

I've heard of others, like core specials, favors from other regions
out west, etc... that have given up to 50% off. So while they're
maybe not common, they are out there and people sure seem to flock to
them.

Good Gaming,

David


--- In LGDMs@yahoogroups.com, Marcia Schoonover <barbarjojo@...>
wrote:
>
> Maybe in some regions, but not in any of the Core, BK, or Iuz mods
I've
> played and I'm pretty well caught up through year 7. The BK has
ALWAYS
> been stingier than some of the cushier regions, but I haven't seen
it
> in the two dozen or so Geoff, Dyvers, Yeomanry, et. al. mods I've
been
> able to play over the years, either. Although I WILL admit that
some of
> those regions have TONS more access on their ARs than the BK does.
Our
> "access" tends to be along the lines of who you've pissed off and
only
> occasionally for access, which we still have to pay full price for.
>
> Marcia

I just craft all my upgrades. Puts me behind the XP curve and ahead of
the gold curve.

Thomas

--- In LGDMs@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <klarny_gemstealer@...> wrote:
>
> Being a player in Zeif I've noticed a few things over the last couple
> of years.
> I would say that we get decent access to a variety of sources in
> regionals.  This is compensated by some tough story arcs that can
> truly hinder your character.  The more generous access are to reduced
> costs on raise dead etc.
> The metaregion mods are definitely combat heavy.  If your party isn't
> well balanced and on their A-game player death is a given.
> That being said, for the most part, the story arcs offer a good
> balance of risk vs reward.  Though things are definitely biased
> against outsiders.
>
> Greg

Being a player in Zeif I've noticed a few things over the last couple
of years.
I would say that we get decent access to a variety of sources in
regionals.  This is compensated by some tough story arcs that can
truly hinder your character.  The more generous access are to reduced
costs on raise dead etc.
The metaregion mods are definitely combat heavy.  If your party isn't
well balanced and on their A-game player death is a given.
That being said, for the most part, the story arcs offer a good
balance of risk vs reward.  Though things are definitely biased
against outsiders.

Greg

--- In LGDMs@yahoogroups.com, Marcia Schoonover <barbarjojo@...>
wrote:
>
> Maybe in some regions, but not in any of the Core, BK, or Iuz mods
I've
> played and I'm pretty well caught up through year 7. The BK has
ALWAYS
> been stingier than some of the cushier regions, but I haven't seen
it
> in the two dozen or so Geoff, Dyvers, Yeomanry, et. al. mods I've
been
> able to play over the years, either. Although I WILL admit that
some of
> those regions have TONS more access on their ARs than the BK does.
Our
> "access" tends to be along the lines of who you've pissed off and
only
> occasionally for access, which we still have to pay full price for.
>
> Marcia
>
>
> --- David <darkknight27@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure I agree with this. I've noticed a trend lately
(starting
> > in year 5 or 6 maybe) where people have been finding access to
> > discounted upgrades, anywhere from 10% to 50% off. Since they're
not
> > paying full price for their item it doesn't hurt as much to loose
it,
> > they're also above the GP curve because they have more gold on
hand
> > since they didn't use as much to upgrade their item.
> >
> > David
>

Maybe in some regions, but not in any of the Core, BK, or Iuz mods I've
played and I'm pretty well caught up through year 7. The BK has ALWAYS
been stingier than some of the cushier regions, but I haven't seen it
in the two dozen or so Geoff, Dyvers, Yeomanry, et. al. mods I've been
able to play over the years, either. Although I WILL admit that some of
those regions have TONS more access on their ARs than the BK does. Our
"access" tends to be along the lines of who you've pissed off and only
occasionally for access, which we still have to pay full price for.

Marcia


--- David <darkknight27@...> wrote:

> I'm not sure I agree with this. I've noticed a trend lately (starting
> in year 5 or 6 maybe) where people have been finding access to
> discounted upgrades, anywhere from 10% to 50% off. Since they're not
> paying full price for their item it doesn't hurt as much to loose it,
> they're also above the GP curve because they have more gold on hand
> since they didn't use as much to upgrade their item.
>
> David

I'm not sure I agree with this. I've noticed a trend lately (starting
in year 5 or 6 maybe) where people have been finding access to
discounted upgrades, anywhere from 10% to 50% off. Since they're not
paying full price for their item it doesn't hurt as much to loose it,
they're also above the GP curve because they have more gold on hand
since they didn't use as much to upgrade their item.

David


--- In LGDMs@yahoogroups.com, "Jason S Wu" <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
>
>
> > I would never in a million years use Sunder on any PC's
equipment.
> > Even if the mod specifically said to.  Take away my DM licence if
you
> > like.  :P
> >
> > Big Mike
>
> I'm of the same opinion.
>
> PC death can be mitigated. Death is tied to XP, which limits
> advancement. So even if a PC dies multiple times he's not going to
be
> normally forced to play at tiers higher than the game system is
> designed for him to handle.
>
> The loss of a major magic item sometimes cannot be mitigated fully
in
> LG. Gold is a resource, and is not tied to level, so if a PC
> experiences a large loss of gold-value it can place his power level
> markedly below the tier the game system expects him to be. The LG
> system prevents transfer of resources between characters, so a
> player's only other recourses may be to either always play down in
> tier from then on, or simply allow his character to die - dropping
his
> level down to match his resources. Neither strikes me as a
> particularly 'fun' direction of play.
>
>
> -jason
> --
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Jason S Wu
>

I found the SRD statement.

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/magicitem/DAMAGING_\
MAGIC_ITEMS.html


DAMAGING MAGIC ITEMS

A magic item doesn’t need to make a saving throw unless it is unattended, it
is specifically targeted by the effect, or its wielder rolls a natural 1 on his
save. Magic items should always get a saving throw against spells that might
deal damage to them— even against attacks from which a nonmagical item would
normally get no chance to save. Magic items use the same saving throw bonus for
all saves, no matter what the type (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will). A magic
item’s saving throw bonus equals 2 + one-half its caster level (round down).
The only exceptions to this are intelligent magic items, which make Will saves
based on their own Wisdom scores.

Magic items, unless otherwise noted, take damage as nonmagical items of the same
sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all
its magical power is lost.

You will have to wait until later to get the PHB or DMG page number.

Dan P.



-----Original Message-----
From: Timlagor <timlagor@...>
To: LGDMs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [LGDMs] Re: Flubbed Saves v area damage






Please quote me a precise quote if you find it because I don't see
it. All I see it saying is unattended magic items get a save.

--- ringweld@... wrote:
> It's in there. If you roll a nat 1, your item then gets a save vs
> the attack using your save. I do not have my books with me right
> now, so I cannot quote the page number, but I'm 99% sure that's
> what it says.
>
> Dan P.

__________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah OK I need reading lessons :/

It does indeed say there is a second save. (PHB177 incidentally)
Sorry about that.


--- Timlagor <timlagor@...> wrote:
> Please quote me a precise quote if you find it because I don't see
> it. All I see it saying is unattended magic items get a save.
>
>
> --- ringweld@... wrote:
> > It's in there. If you roll a nat 1, your item then gets a save vs
> > the attack using your save. I do not have my books with me right
> > now, so I cannot quote the page number, but I'm 99% sure that's
> > what it says.
> >
> > Dan P.



       __________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
More Ways to Keep in Touch. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Please quote me a precise quote if you find it because I don't see
it. All I see it saying is unattended magic items get a save.


--- ringweld@... wrote:
> It's in there. If you roll a nat 1, your item then gets a save vs
> the attack using your save. I do not have my books with me right
> now, so I cannot quote the page number, but I'm 99% sure that's
> what it says.
>
> Dan P.


       __________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
More Ways to Keep in Touch. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

It's in there. If you roll a nat 1, your item then gets a save vs the attack
using your save. I do not have my books with me right now, so I cannot quote the
page number, but I'm 99% sure that's what it says.

Dan P.


-----Original Message-----
From: Timlagor <timlagor@...>
To: LGDMs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:49 am
Subject: [LGDMs] Re: Flubbed Saves v area damage






I've had stuff damaged. I'm pretty sure I've also failed to note a
nat 1 on a save for this purpose before. I don't think I've ever seen
anyone call for that rule though (which is why I would havemissed
it). I have called someone on it as a GM once (nothing destroyed).

- My Wizard took a dragon's breath weapon (rerolled a fail to get a
nat 1) but fortunately took it on the (recently enchanted) Mithral
Buckler +1 rather than the headband +6.
- My Centaur took an acid breath to his starmetal scimitar which
stayed in one piece by virtue of the GMW on it at the time and needed
a Make Whole the next day. (not too sure it it was Make Whole or
Mending we decided on but we were travelling uneventfully that day
anyway and there was a Cleric) -the scimitar wasn't magic yes so no
gp lost.

I see no reference to a second save in the rules.

--- ringweld@... wrote:
> If I'm a player or a DM and someone rolls a 1 for a save, I always
> reach for the item rules and remind everyone of them, but to this
> date, I have never seen anyone's items get damaged from a spell.
> They always make the second save.? :(?
>
> Maybe one day I will see it happen.? :)
>
> Dan P.

__________________________________________________________
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http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've had stuff damaged. I'm pretty sure I've also failed to note a
nat 1 on a save for this purpose before. I don't think I've ever seen
anyone call for that rule though (which is why I would havemissed
it). I have called someone on it as a GM once (nothing destroyed).

- My Wizard took a dragon's breath weapon (rerolled a fail to get a
nat 1) but fortunately took it on the (recently enchanted) Mithral
Buckler +1 rather than the headband +6.
- My Centaur took an acid breath to his starmetal scimitar which
stayed in one piece by virtue of the GMW on it at the time and needed
a Make Whole the next day. (not too sure it it was Make Whole or
Mending we decided on but we were travelling uneventfully that day
anyway and there was a Cleric) -the scimitar wasn't magic yes so no
gp lost.

I see no reference to a second save in the rules.


--- ringweld@... wrote:
> If I'm a player or a DM and someone rolls a 1 for a save, I always
> reach for the item rules and remind everyone of them, but to this
> date, I have never seen anyone's items get damaged from a spell.
> They always make the second save.? :(?
>
> Maybe one day I will see it happen.? :)
>
> Dan P.



       ___________________________________________________________
Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good

http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/

If I'm a player or a DM and someone rolls a 1 for a save, I always reach for the
item rules and remind everyone of them, but to this date, I have never seen
anyone's items get damaged from a spell. They always make the second save.? :(?

Maybe one day I will see it happen.? :)

Dan P.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Haakstad <amysrevenge@...>
To: LGDMs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 2:21 am
Subject: [LGDMs] Re: Sunder in a mod.






--- In LGDMs@yahoogroups.com, ringweld@... wrote:
>
>
> So, does that policy apply to just Sundering or any type of
ability or bit of magic that takes away a PC's equipment??? :)
>
> Man, a world of no Rust Monsters, Disjunctions, or saving throws
against magical spells (Remember the rule of, if you roll a 1 on a
save vs a spell that causes damage, you then roll another save for
your stuff. If the second save fails, your stuff starts blowing up.).
What fun is that.?? LOL
>
> Dan P.

None of those has ever come up for me (except maybe for 1s on saves.
I don't remember any specifically, but I'm sure it has happened and
been forgotten - that is just the sort of thing I know I'd miss in
the heat of the action, and it's not like a player will remind me
about that one lol). I've ignored "Improved Sunder" as a feat in a
NPC description a few times though.

I've never (in my 300 or so tables) to my recollection broken a PC's
gear. I've killed well over 50 PCs though. :P

Big Mike






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I would never in a million years use Sunder on any PC's equipment.
> Even if the mod specifically said to.  Take away my DM licence if you
> like.  :P
>
> Big Mike

I'm of the same opinion.

PC death can be mitigated. Death is tied to XP, which limits
advancement. So even if a PC dies multiple times he's not going to be
normally forced to play at tiers higher than the game system is
designed for him to handle.

The loss of a major magic item sometimes cannot be mitigated fully in
LG. Gold is a resource, and is not tied to level, so if a PC
experiences a large loss of gold-value it can place his power level
markedly below the tier the game system expects him to be. The LG
system prevents transfer of resources between characters, so a
player's only other recourses may be to either always play down in
tier from then on, or simply allow his character to die - dropping his
level down to match his resources. Neither strikes me as a
particularly 'fun' direction of play.


-jason
--

____________________________________________________________
Jason S Wu

--- In LGDMs@yahoogroups.com, ringweld@... wrote:
>
>
>  So, does that policy apply to just Sundering or any type of
ability or bit of magic that takes away a PC's equipment??? :)
>
> Man, a world of no Rust Monsters, Disjunctions, or saving throws
against magical spells (Remember the rule of, if you roll a 1 on a
save vs a spell that causes damage, you then roll another save for
your stuff. If the second save fails, your stuff starts blowing up.).
What fun is that.?? LOL
>
> Dan P.

None of those has ever come up for me (except maybe for 1s on saves.
I don't remember any specifically, but I'm sure it has happened and
been forgotten - that is just the sort of thing I know I'd miss in
the heat of the action, and it's not like a player will remind me
about that one lol).  I've ignored "Improved Sunder" as a feat in a
NPC description a few times though.

I've never (in my 300 or so tables) to my recollection broken a PC's
gear.  I've killed well over 50 PCs though.  :P

Big Mike