Frank I checked the member list and I see you there... check again,
but you look to be ok on the list.. if you get this email then
you're in.. if you have to look this up then you're not.. pop off an
email to joe silvestri...


--- In JerseyGamers@yahoogroups.com, "krautvietvet"
<krautvietvet@y...> wrote:
> Guys,
> This is Frank Schmitt.  I just joined, but when I checked the
member
> list I see that my name is not in the profile.  Never used Yahoo
> before; what did I do wrong?  Thannks.

220 out 229 Vietnam Veterans, who served with John Kerry, signed a petition questioning his ability to be our next "Commander in Chief."               

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Guys,
This is Frank Schmitt.  I just joined, but when I checked the member
list I see that my name is not in the profile.  Never used Yahoo
before; what did I do wrong?  Thannks.

Chris,

As of noww I expect to be there.  If I am, Iwould be willing to play,
although I have played only twice and do not remember any of the
rules.

Frank
--- In JerseyGamers@yahoogroups.com, "cstorzillo" <cptstorz@o...>
wrote:
> Guys,
>
> Joe Silvestri and I are going to play Avalon Hill's Blackbeard at
the
> meeting on the 19th.  We are looking for a third or possibly fourth
> to play.  Any takers?
>
> Chris
>
> --- In JerseyGamers@yahoogroups.com, jeff.schulte@a... wrote:
> > Guys,
> >
> >  I wanted to let you know about our next meeting in Park Ridge.
It
> will be held on Sunday 9/19/04 at 1PM.  We are looking to add new
> members to the club and a strong turnout by our current members
would
> leave good impression for those new to us. At this upcoming
meeting,
> we are also having a drawing for a door prize.
> >
> > For more information, please go to our website at
> www.jerseygamers.com  You can also join our new yahoo group which
is
> a great tool for setting up games with other members.  To join the
> Yahoo list go to games.groups.yahoo.com/group/JerseyGamers
> >
> > If you have any questions about the club please feel free to e-
mail
> direct at jeff.schulte@a...  I would like to hear from you.
> >
> > thanks,
> > Jeff Schulte

Guys,

Joe Silvestri and I are going to play Avalon Hill's Blackbeard at the
meeting on the 19th.  We are looking for a third or possibly fourth
to play.  Any takers?

Chris

--- In JerseyGamers@yahoogroups.com, jeff.schulte@a... wrote:
> Guys,
>
>  I wanted to let you know about our next meeting in Park Ridge.  It
will be held on Sunday 9/19/04 at 1PM.  We are looking to add new
members to the club and a strong turnout by our current members would
leave good impression for those new to us. At this upcoming meeting,
we are also having a drawing for a door prize.
>
> For more information, please go to our website at
www.jerseygamers.com  You can also join our new yahoo group which is
a great tool for setting up games with other members.  To join the
Yahoo list go to games.groups.yahoo.com/group/JerseyGamers
>
> If you have any questions about the club please feel free to e-mail
direct at jeff.schulte@a...  I would like to hear from you.
>
> thanks,
> Jeff Schulte

Guys,

 I wanted to let you know about our next meeting in Park Ridge.  It will be held on Sunday 9/19/04 at 1PM.  We are looking to add new members to the club and a strong turnout by our current members would leave good impression for those new to us. At this upcoming meeting, we are also having a drawing for a door prize. 

For more information, please go to our website at www.jerseygamers.com  You can also join our new yahoo group which is a great tool for setting up games with other members.  To join the Yahoo list go to games.groups.yahoo.com/group/JerseyGamers

If you have any questions about the club please feel free to e-mail direct at jeff.schulte@....  I would like to hear from you.

thanks,

Jeff Schulte

Guys,

 

Our next meeting is Sunday September 19th in Park Ridge.  We are planning on a door prize, something like a game.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

Also, we are trying to drum up new members for the club so if you know anyone interested in gaming please bring them along.

 

Jeff

Guys,

Our next meeting is Sunday September 19th in Park Ridge.  We are planning on a door prize, something like a game.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

Also, we are trying to drum up new members for the club so if you know anyone interested in gaming please bring them along.

Jeff

Light turnout, 7

ASL Red Barricades scenario Bread Factory

Munchkin

Blokus? not sure of the spelling, although I hear it was a mensa
game of the year.

We were asked to leave before 8:00pm

Just a reminder, some new group members can check out the website in
the links section for information regarding meeting locations and
dates.

JS

Great!  Are you going to the meeting on SAturday?  If so, I'll give it to you then. 

Jeff

-------------- Original message from SGunar@...: --------------

If you are interested in taking the game let me know.  You can't beat the price! $0

 

SOLD!

No.  The system uses a firepower table where the defender fires and then the attacker.  The game is actually quite fluid as was the historical campaign.  Not until the trenches start popping up does the front begin to slow down.  There are also HQ units that are used to dispense supply points for combat. 

Overall the graphics are good and as I mentioned it is part of the Der Weltkreig system that covers the rest of the war.  I have all the games in the system.  I'm only getting rid of this as it is now redundant.  The other games cover Tannenburg and Austrian front in the east; Serbia and Rumania; The Italian Front; and then a game to finish out the war in the east.

If you are interested in taking the game let me know.  You can't beat the price! $0

Jeff

-------------- Original message from SGunar@...: --------------
Does everyone end up getting slaughtered? How much maneuver can there be?

Guys,

If anyone is interested, I have a copy of SPW's The Schlieffen Plan to give away.  It is part of the Der Weltkrieg system which covers WWI at division level; 20 miles/hex; and 3 day turns.  TSP covers the opening moves on the Western Front from August to November 1914.  It is a very good system and the only reason I am giving it away is that I now have all the components with my purchase of The Western Front 1914-1918.

So if anyone is interested let me know.  It's free and I would certainly be interested in playing it as well.

Jeff

Guys,

If anyone is interested, I have a copy of SPW's The Schlieffen Plan to give away.  It is part of the Der Weltkrieg system which covers WWI at division level; 20 miles/hex; and 3 day turns.  TSP covers the opening moves on the Western Front from August to November 1914.  It is a very good system and the only reason I am giving it away is that I now have all the components with my purchase of The Western Front 1914-1918.

So if anyone is interested let me know.  It's free and I would certainly be interested in playing it as well.

Jeff

Joe,

I listed the club's website under the links section of the groups page.

Jeff

David,

  We meet twice a month in Northern NJ. Check out our website
Jerseygamers.com

Joe

This group site, there's a spot for links.

--- In JerseyGamers@yahoogroups.com, Jay Davis <Jay_Davis@c...>
wrote:
> What site?
>
> Jay
>
>
> sillvesttree wrote:
>
> > Could one of our computer experts add the JAG website to the
links
> > portion of this site?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bv42t1/M=298184.5285298.6392945.30011
76/D=groups/S=1705059080:HM/EXP=1093641375/A=2319501/R=0/SIG=11tq0u90
9/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185353&partid=5285298>
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JerseyGamers/
> >
> >     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >       JerseyGamers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >       <mailto:JerseyGamers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> >     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> >       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >

Could one of our computer experts add the JAG website to the links
portion of this site?

Thanks

Could one of our computer experts add the JAG website to the links
portion of this site?

Thanks

Guys,

 

Just to get some kind of game discussion started.  Here's an exchange Seth and I had on the Europe Engulfed game we played at the last meeting.

 

Seth:

I enjoyed "Europe Engulfed." I think that the blocks add a bit of uncertainty to
the game that makes it more challenging. I'd like to attempt to play a complete
game if you are interested at all. (By the way, I still insist that there is a
border between Novgorod and Lithuania and I am going to e-mail GMT for an
opinion on the matter. I hope you don't mind my argumentative nature when it
comes to the rules. Arguing is what I do for a living and it is hard to turn
that off.)

With regard to strategy, I think that there are two ways you can go if you are
the German player when it comes time to invade the Soviet Union. You can either
go for the gusto right from the start and attempt to reach Moscow, or you can
preserve your forces and augment them at the beginning while chewing up enough
of the Red Army to keep him weak for the big drive in 42.

I don't prefer the former strategy because I don't think that you can finish off
the Red Army before the mud. You have only two turns to do your business,
July-August and September-October. If you use your production to buy the special
actions that are absolutely required to attempt this enterprise, you cannot
build reserves for the long fight that will result if you fail.  Finally, to
accomplish the mission you will definitely have to march your infantry deep into
Russia. This essentially means that you are committed to wasting one strength
point for every one of your infantry units in Russia (with the exception of
those units that are already down to one - and if you can take significant
advantage of that rule you are pretty much fucked already aren't you). Given
that there are I think at least 35 infantry units, you are wasting over a turn's
worth of production, considering that you will need to spend at least 15 points
per turn on the other nonsense.  

To sum up my objections to the first strategy, I think that you basically end up
making the same mistakes that Hitler made, with similar results. If the Soviet
player is skilled enough, he can avoid major confrontations in the first two
turns and force you to expend all those special actions while he builds up his
reserves for the counterattack.

Years ago, I read an article comparing the strategies and errors of four
invasions of Russia, Charles XII in the beginning of the 18th Century, Napoleon,
Germany in WWI, and of course Hitler.

In three instances (excluding Germany in WWI), one major mistake was made. They
all tried to win the war in one fighting season (Summer-Fall). They all
underestimated the logistical challenges of a deep battle. In the one instance
of success, there was no "invasion" as that term is generally understood.
Rather, Germany was invaded and then pushed the Russians further and further
back using mobile tactics (by WWI comparison - Stosstruppentactic, or "Storm
Troop Tactics" were invented on the Russian front) and artillery firepower
concentrations. They never overextended themselves. It is often forgotten, but
there is simply no doubt that Germany won its war against Russia in 1914-1917.
They also did it while treating it as a "second front."

Ironically, Hitler tried to avoid the same mistake made by Napoleon, which was
to concentrate on conquering Moscow in the mistaken belief that doing so would
lead to Russian surrender. Moscow, the center of a non-industrial agrarian
nation, was not important in 1812. Although it was the situs of political power
it had no significance militarily. The irony is that Moscow was much more
important militarily in 1941 than in 1812. It was now the hub of the Russian
rail network and Russian industry. And it was also the center of a totalitarian
regime that could only survive with its institutions of control (repression)
intact. Taking Moscow could have been the death blow in 1941 that it was not in
1812. Belatedly, OKH realized Moscow's significance in September, 1941, with the
appearance of vast unforseen Russian reserves that showed that destroying the
Red Army would take two campaigns. Avoiding Napoleon's mistake, Hitler made a
new one.

Here is where I am not sure that taking Moscow is given adequate significance by
"Europe Engulfed." Taking it without taking Baku will not end the war. The
Germans are not strong enough to sieze both in the first year. Unless there are
some demoralization type effects (a la Italy and Africa), Moscow's importance is
pretty much limited to its production number.

Thus, in the absence of rewards commensurate with the overextension of forces
required by an attempt to sieze Moscow in 1941, I think it is wiser for a German
player to use his numerical superiority in 1941 and in the beginning of 1942 to
kill Russian units. Then, with the first deadly winter behind him, march
eastward for the final kill.

So what do ya think? Or are there rules I don't know about that turn this all to
rubbish?

 

Jeff:

 

I'm glad you enjoyed the game.  I like the block system too as it is an easy way to provide a level of fog of war. to the game.  It also allows one to take a little more risk since it allows the possibility of bluffing.  That's something you realy cannot do with counter based games.

 

I used to make models all the time.  The Tiger on my desk is radio controlled, (although the battery is dead).  When I did models it was either battleships or the Tamiya 1/35th scale tanks.  I don't think I have the patience now though.  What were your subjects of interest?

 

I don't mind the disagreement on Lake Peipus.  I just think that you are overlooking the dark blue color on the map which is consistent with other prohibitive bodies of water.

 

I haven't played the game enough to be sure on strategy.  Besides the last game, I only played once as the Germans in a 1939 campaign that ended in August 1941 and then at the previous club meetign where I was the referee.  From what I've seen and also what I've read on Consimworld, I do have several impressions. that would affect how I would play the Germans.

 

The single most important factor to me when approaching the Soviet problem is their productive resources.  The Soviet production is 34 and none of it can be hurt by strategic warfare.  Since once the war starts, the Soviets do not pay cadre costs, that means they build 34 steps each turn.  In addition, they get 1D6 in lend lease plus whatever England provides. Lastly, they also have the emregency conscription which is worth another 50 infantry steps. This base can only be reduced by capturing  cities and cutting the lend lease routes.With an historical advance plus Moscow, the Germans can only reduce Soviet production by 8 pts. 

 

With Soviet production only marginally vulnerable, the only course is to go for a favorable kill ratio and playing for time.  IMO, this means you need to do encirclements, and push at least to the line Leningrad-Moscow-Rostov.  Once you establish this line you need to continue operations beyond this line to keep the Soviets honest.  The Don River line with entrenchments will give a +2 hit bonus.  Taking the Onega Swamps also shuts down half the Lend Lease available.

 

The German player I believe also needs to be more creative in tactics.  The use of the special actions is crucial to employing German forces.  These must be used for the creation of pockets, and also used judiciously for retreat before combat, and reinforcing battles.

 

I think that if you only make a shallow advance, you cannot inflict enough casualties on the Soviets, and their forces grow too quickly.  Also, once the Soviets go on the offensive, then they have a much shorter distance to Berlin.  You need the space gained by your advance so you can trade it later on for time.  I don't agree that they Soviets can avoid battle.  They only have one special action available and only after emergency conscription is completed.  Also, most Soviet players will still feel compelled to fight for locations that never fell historically (IE: Leningrad & Moscow).  It's simply a matter of pride.

 

I agree with you that Moscow should be more important.  One thing they are adding to the living rules is that once Moscow is taken, Russian strategic redeployments are reduced to 1 from 5.

 

I like EE but I still think that I like Columbia's East Front and West Front better.  They are more operational in nature with a smaller map scale.  The HQ system of activation also means you have to husband your resources so you can deploy your forces properly.  At the Bachelor Party I'll be playing a combined 1943 scenario as we did last winter at the Game Master.

 

Thanks for the e-mail, an interesting discussion.  I think we will need to play EE a few more times to work out strategy.

 

Anyone else's comments are welcome.  How about you Joe?  You were teh Soviets in teh game after all.  What's your impression?

 

Jeff

Guys,

Just to get some kind of game discussion started.  Here's an exchange Seth and I had on the Europe Engulfed game we played at the last meeting.

Seth:

I enjoyed "Europe Engulfed." I think that the blocks add a bit of uncertainty to
the game that makes it more challenging. I'd like to attempt to play a complete
game if you are interested at all. (By the way, I still insist that there is a
border between Novgorod and Lithuania and I am going to e-mail GMT for an
opinion on the matter. I hope you don't mind my argumentative nature when it
comes to the rules. Arguing is what I do for a living and it is hard to turn
that off.)

With regard to strategy, I think that there are two ways you can go if you are
the German player when it comes time to invade the Soviet Union. You can either
go for the gusto right from the start and attempt to reach Moscow, or you can
preserve your forces and augment them at the beginning while chewing up enough
of the Red Army to keep him weak for the big drive in 42.

I don't prefer the former strategy because I don't think that you can finish off
the Red Army before the mud. You have only two turns to do your business,
July-August and September-October. If you use your production to buy the special
actions that are absolutely required to attempt this enterprise, you cannot
build reserves for the long fight that will result if you fail.  Finally, to
accomplish the mission you will definitely have to march your infantry deep into
Russia. This essentially means that you are committed to wasting one strength
point for every one of your infantry units in Russia (with the exception of
those units that are already down to one - and if you can take significant
advantage of that rule you are pretty much fucked already aren't you). Given
that there are I think at least 35 infantry units, you are wasting over a turn's
worth of production, considering that you will need to spend at least 15 points
per turn on the other nonsense.  

To sum up my objections to the first strategy, I think that you basically end up
making the same mistakes that Hitler made, with similar results. If the Soviet
player is skilled enough, he can avoid major confrontations in the first two
turns and force you to expend all those special actions while he builds up his
reserves for the counterattack.

Years ago, I read an article comparing the strategies and errors of four
invasions of Russia, Charles XII in the beginning of the 18th Century, Napoleon,
Germany in WWI, and of course Hitler.

In three instances (excluding Germany in WWI), one major mistake was made. They
all tried to win the war in one fighting season (Summer-Fall). They all
underestimated the logistical challenges of a deep battle. In the one instance
of success, there was no "invasion" as that term is generally understood.
Rather, Germany was invaded and then pushed the Russians further and further
back using mobile tactics (by WWI comparison - Stosstruppentactic, or "Storm
Troop Tactics" were invented on the Russian front) and artillery firepower
concentrations. They never overextended themselves. It is often forgotten, but
there is simply no doubt that Germany won its war against Russia in 1914-1917.
They also did it while treating it as a "second front."

Ironically, Hitler tried to avoid the same mistake made by Napoleon, which was
to concentrate on conquering Moscow in the mistaken belief that doing so would
lead to Russian surrender. Moscow, the center of a non-industrial agrarian
nation, was not important in 1812. Although it was the situs of political power
it had no significance militarily. The irony is that Moscow was much more
important militarily in 1941 than in 1812. It was now the hub of the Russian
rail network and Russian industry. And it was also the center of a totalitarian
regime that could only survive with its institutions of control (repression)
intact. Taking Moscow could have been the death blow in 1941 that it was not in
1812. Belatedly, OKH realized Moscow's significance in September, 1941, with the
appearance of vast unforseen Russian reserves that showed that destroying the
Red Army would take two campaigns. Avoiding Napoleon's mistake, Hitler made a
new one.

Here is where I am not sure that taking Moscow is given adequate significance by
"Europe Engulfed." Taking it without taking Baku will not end the war. The
Germans are not strong enough to sieze both in the first year. Unless there are
some demoralization type effects (a la Italy and Africa), Moscow's importance is
pretty much limited to its production number.

Thus, in the absence of rewards commensurate with the overextension of forces
required by an attempt to sieze Moscow in 1941, I think it is wiser for a German
player to use his numerical superiority in 1941 and in the beginning of 1942 to
kill Russian units. Then, with the first deadly winter behind him, march
eastward for the final kill.

So what do ya think? Or are there rules I don't know about that turn this all to
rubbish?

 

Jeff:

I'm glad you enjoyed the game.  I like the block system too as it is an easy way to provide a level of fog of war. to the game.  It also allows one to take a little more risk since it allows the possibility of bluffing.  That's something you realy cannot do with counter based games.

 

I used to make models all the time.  The Tiger on my desk is radio controlled, (although the battery is dead).  When I did models it was either battleships or the Tamiya 1/35th scale tanks.  I don't think I have the patience now though.  What were your subjects of interest?

 

I don't mind the disagreement on Lake Peipus.  I just think that you are overlooking the dark blue color on the map which is consistent with other prohibitive bodies of water.

 

I haven't played the game enough to be sure on strategy.  Besides the last game, I only played once as the Germans in a 1939 campaign that ended in August 1941 and then at the previous club meetign where I was the referee.  From what I've seen and also what I've read on Consimworld, I do have several impressions. that would affect how I would play the Germans.

 

The single most important factor to me when approaching the Soviet problem is their productive resources.  The Soviet production is 34 and none of it can be hurt by strategic warfare.  Since once the war starts, the Soviets do not pay cadre costs, that means they build 34 steps each turn.  In addition, they get 1D6 in lend lease plus whatever England provides. Lastly, they also have the emregency conscription which is worth another 50 infantry steps. This base can only be reduced by capturing  cities and cutting the lend lease routes.With an historical advance plus Moscow, the Germans can only reduce Soviet production by 8 pts. 

 

With Soviet production only marginally vulnerable, the only course is to go for a favorable kill ratio and playing for time.  IMO, this means you need to do encirclements, and push at least to the line Leningrad-Moscow-Rostov.  Once you establish this line you need to continue operations beyond this line to keep the Soviets honest.  The Don River line with entrenchments will give a +2 hit bonus.  Taking the Onega Swamps also shuts down half the Lend Lease available.

 

The German player I believe also needs to be more creative in tactics.  The use of the special actions is crucial to employing German forces.  These must be used for the creation of pockets, and also used judiciously for retreat before combat, and reinforcing battles.

 

I think that if you only make a shallow advance, you cannot inflict enough casualties on the Soviets, and their forces grow too quickly.  Also, once the Soviets go on the offensive, then they have a much shorter distance to Berlin.  You need the space gained by your advance so you can trade it later on for time.  I don't agree that they Soviets can avoid battle.  They only have one special action available and only after emergency conscription is completed.  Also, most Soviet players will still feel compelled to fight for locations that never fell historically (IE: Leningrad & Moscow).  It's simply a matter of pride.

 

I agree with you that Moscow should be more important.  One thing they are adding to the living rules is that once Moscow is taken, Russian strategic redeployments are reduced to 1 from 5.

 

I like EE but I still think that I like Columbia's East Front and West Front better.  They are more operational in nature with a smaller map scale.  The HQ system of activation also means you have to husband your resources so you can deploy your forces properly.  At the Bachelor Party I'll be playing a combined 1943 scenario as we did last winter at the Game Master.

 

Thanks for the e-mail, an interesting discussion.  I think we will need to play EE a few more times to work out strategy.

 

Anyone else's comments are welcome.  How about you Joe?  You were teh Soviets in teh game after all.  What's your impression?

Jeff

Light turnout. I think the count was 7

We played Star Munchkin, Europe Engulfed and Puerto Rico.

Shant won Star Munchkin. EE was not completed although rumor has it
the Russians were giving new menaing to the words Bled White.

I don't know who won PR.

JS

Ok, Joe.. I'm in. Keith

Guys,

I'm interested in playing Europe Engulfed on Sunday.  Any of you interested?  Either a 1939 campaign or 1941 campaign would be good for me.

Jeff

OK,
  So far 3 of us in this. I've only posted on the JAG baseball league.

I'll tell Bob Saturday to add this to te postcard.

Joe

----- Original Message -----

From: sillvesttree

To: JerseyGamers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 6:23 PM

Subject: [JerseyGamers] Welcome Chris

Hey dude,

You are the first to enter....

Let me know how it works...

Joe

Hey dude,

  You are the first to enter....

Let me know how it works...

Joe