When your dealing with the overall effective character level, and your dealing with a campaign that requires you to have say, level 6 maximum, and I bring in the Minotaur, it's actually an effective level of 8 not including any classes. So the DM/GM would say no way, because it would overpower the campaign. I know what its actual ECL is from the Race and Stats section, but when I print out the document itself, it doesn't have that. The ECL is extremely important when you put the character sheet together.   Thanks Chris for sending me that info, I just couldn't trace where the calculation was coming from. And hopefully in the future Hero Forge, you might have some extra templates for the Half-Ogre, Half-Minotaur, Half-Troll, Half-Scrag, Saint, Fire Souled, and others still not listed. Because I like having a Half-Minotaur because there's no Racial HD, only Level Adjustments, and they're really small, except for the Troll and Scrag.   Also, on the Monster Forge, when I chose say Minotaur and add the template Monster of Legend, it correctly increases the CR, however it doesn't increase the Level Adjustment of the base creature, it still keeps it at a Level Adjustment of 2. And we know that the MoL template would surely add some additional Level Adjustments on it.   Thanks Don --- On Fri, 7/4/08, David Farnsworth <david_farns@...> wrote: From: David Farnsworth <david_farns@...> Subject: Re: ECL was RE: [Hero_Forge] 4E CharacterForge 1.11 in Excel To: Hero_Forge@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 4:43 PM Hi, Donald. As Chris stated below.  If I might inquire, Why do you need the ECL on the Character sheet? --- On Fri, 7/4/08, Chris McLaughlin <kilthar@xtra. co.nz> wrote: From: Chris McLaughlin <kilthar@xtra. co.nz> Subject: ECL was RE: [Hero_Forge] 4E CharacterForge 1.11 in Excel To: Hero_Forge@yahoogro ups.com Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 4:40 PM Hi Donald, Using HF 6.0.1.10 (with update 11) I selected the options you stated below (Minotaur) and on Character Sheet I it showed Level 6. If you want it to show the ECL as well change the following on Character Sheet I: Cell C9 From: =CSCharSheetLvl To: =CSCharSheetLvl&" ("&ECL&")" Cell C1 From: LEVEL To: LEVEL (ECL)   Regards, Chris McLaughlin "You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."   From: Hero_Forge@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:Hero_ Forge@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of immortal_marine@ yahoo.com Sent: Saturday, 5 July 2008 5:22 a.m. To: Hero_Forge@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [Hero_Forge] 4E CharacterForge 1.11 in Excel   Yes, my name is Donald Hollamon, and I just recently downloaded your latest Hero Forge for 3.5 and I'm also an avid gamer as well as an excel buff. I've already created my own excel document to help automatically input information in multiple different areas. However I have to look things up, it isn't as elaborate as your spreadsheet. I love creating off the wall characters, things that require level adjustments and the such. I liked the fact that your spreadsheet has pretty much everything included into it. However after going over everything, from inputting to view the calculation path, I just can't seem find why it's not calculating the Level Adjustment to give the overall Effective Character Level (ECL). It will give it on the Race & Stats page, but when you go to the character sheet, it still says differently. Goes as followed; Click on "Make All Non-setting Sources Available" Go to "Race & Stats" page Change "Race" to "Minotaur" At the bottom of the sheet, it explains that the ECL for the character is 8 (before you add a character class). Switch to "Character Sheet I" You'll notice that the level for the character is still 2. It only shows its Racial Hit Dice, but not the extra Level Adjustment. The same goes for when you add other templates to the mix, like Half-Dragon, Voidmind, or Fiendish. It would change its type, for example if I put in Half-Dragon, it would change its type to Dragon, and when you go to the "Class" link It would show his Racial Hit Dice as Dragon for Class, which is right, however it still doesn't factor in the Level adjustment for either the Minotaur, nor the Half-Dragon template when you go to "Character Sheet I." It still shows 6 levels in Dragon, and that's it. I just wanted to point that out, other than that, I would use your spreadsheet. There are also some other templates missing, like maybe seeing Saint or Fire Souled templates. I think they can be found in The Book of Exalted Deeds. There is also Half-Ogre, Half-Troll, or Half-Minotaur which have Level Adjustments but no Racial Hit Dice. There are others, but I'm sure it's a work in progress. I just figured I point out a possible bug for later releases. Thanks, Donald W. Hollamon