Hi,
      Does anyone have any online material about Jonstown. My players are
probably heading there in a couple of sessions and I've discovered that it's
a nasty gap in my knowledge.

Craig

--- In HeroWars@egroups.com, "Craig Dodge" <yausujun@i...> wrote:

>      Does anyone have any online material about Jonstown.

Not on-line, no. But if you could track down a copy of "Heroes of
Wisdom: the guide to Jonstown", that would give you all the
information you could ever need. I have a nasty idea it's OOP,
though.

You're a little too far away for me to lend you my copy, I'm afraid :(

Jane Williams :

> >      Does anyone have any online material about Jonstown.
>
> Not on-line, no. But if you could track down a copy of "Heroes of
> Wisdom: the guide to Jonstown", that would give you all the
> information you could ever need. I have a nasty idea it's OOP,
> though.

Not quite OOP I think ; there were copies on sale at Tentacles this year,
in both German & English (and I bought one !).

Julian Lord

Actually I have most of the older zines in my Australian TOTRM/Chaos Society
horde, including this one (A$8 + postage).

Send personal email if you are interested.

Andrew

Jane Williams wrote:
> In HeroWars@egroups.com, "Craig Dodge" ><yausujun@i...> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have any online material about
>> Jonstown.
> Not on-line, no. But if you could track down a
> copy of "Heroes of Wisdom: the guide to
> Jonstown", that would give you all the
> information you could ever need. I have a nasty > idea it's OOP, though.

This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au

Apologies to all.

Looks like I missed this list when I was setting up the out of office.

Cheers
Adam





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(Sorry for the long delay!)

Peter Metcalfe:

> > > I think that individuals only have one spirit (ok there may be some
> > > exceptions) so I am not sure about the idea of a spirit per ability.
>
> > But if fits with the fact that spirits in HW seem to
> possess >only one
> >ability (I may be grossly mistaken though).
>
> They don't.  However when you integrate a spirit or place it
> in a fetish, you can only use one spirit.

	 I guess you mean one ability, right?

	 Looking at the write-ups for spirits, they do seem to possess several
abilities, though then I wonder why when you put them in a fetish (or
integrate them) you only have access to one, but this is not true for a
fetch... Maybe because the fetch is not captured/integrated?


> But a holy fighter _is_ part of the Cult of Bagog and holy people
> are part of the animist hierarchy.

	 Just as priests are part of a cult hierarchy? IMO it's a social position as
well as a "religious" one.

> > > I don't think Bagogi shamans will have such an easy access to
> > > Chaos.
>
> > But isn't Bagog a great chaos spirit? Then why shouldn't
> they >have it?
>
> Because they have to get their spirits from Primal Chaos and
> not Bagog.

	 But then this would hold for every other chaos spirit/god as well. No one
could have access to chaos spirits/affinities unless they worship Primal
Chaos directly.

> >But who would deal with traditional spirits, then?
>
> The Queen and also the Holy Fighters.

	 Mmh... I don't think that the Queen and the Holy Fighters should deal with
spirits on a regular basis. IMO they have other things to do. That is,
unless the normal scorpion-men interaction with spirits is through the
Ritual of Devouring... In this case the shaman deals with spirits that can't
be devoured (most disembodied spirits). But still over time they would have
developed a tradition that would help them against the spirits with whom
they deal more often.

	 Or devouring is just scorpion-men's special effect for spirit combat.

> I don't think so.  Shamans cannot shapechange unless they become
> Queens.  Merely changing the requirement for the Shapechanging Secret
> of Bagog is not enough.

	 Why do you think that shamans should not be able to shapechange? IIRC
hsunchen shamans can shapechange (ok, bagogi are not hsunchen, are they?).

> Well unless animists get a complete victory for integrating a
> spirit, they get nothing also.

	 Capturing a spirit in a fetish doesn't require complete victory. Mind you,
this could explain why scorpion-men have poor magic (or rather, magic is not
very frequent, even though I still don't see why it should. Do you?).

--
Regards,
Alexandre.

"Cinq milliards de races d'hommes sur Terre,
Est-ce assez pour croiser le fer...?"

Alexandre Lanciani

Peter Metcalfe:

> > They don't.  However when you integrate a spirit or place it
> > in a fetish, you can only use one spirit.

>         I guess you mean one ability, right?

That's correct.

>         Looking at the write-ups for spirits, they do seem to possess several
>abilities, though then I wonder why when you put them in a fetish (or
>integrate them) you only have access to one, but this is not true for a
>fetch... Maybe because the fetch is not captured/integrated?

That's correct.

> > But a holy fighter _is_ part of the Cult of Bagog and holy people
> > are part of the animist hierarchy.

>Just as priests are part of a cult hierarchy? IMO it's a social
>position as well as a "religious" one.

But before you were saying it was just a social position and
thus (by implication) not needed in the writeup.  That was what
I was arguing against.

> >>> I don't think Bagogi shamans will have such an easy access to
> >>> Chaos.

> >>      But isn't Bagog a great chaos spirit? Then why shouldn't
> >>  they have it?

> > Because they have to get their spirits from Primal Chaos and
> > not Bagog.

>But then this would hold for every other chaos spirit/god as well.

That's correct.

>No
>one could have access to chaos spirits/affinities unless they worship
>Primal Chaos directly.

Or go to a bagogi shaman who has contacted Primal Chaos himself.

> > >But who would deal with traditional spirits, then?

> > The Queen and also the Holy Fighters.

>Mmh... I don't think that the Queen and the Holy Fighters should deal with
>spirits on a regular basis.

But the traditional spirits are scorpions spirits which the Queen
and the Holy Fighters do integrate.  And the Queen _is_ a shaman.

>IMO they have other things to do.

That certainly is so.  But magically they are the ones who turn
into scorpions, they should be the ones who deal with the
traditional/scorpion spirits in the tribe, not the shamans and
this has been so ever since Cults of Terror.  It is no more
unusual for them to deal with traditional spirits than it is
for the Telmori to deal with wolf spirits.

>That is,
>unless the normal scorpion-men interaction with spirits is through the
>Ritual of Devouring...

I would prefer to keep the devouring ritual for only mundane
entities.

> > I don't think so.  Shamans cannot shapechange unless they become
> > Queens.  Merely changing the requirement for the Shapechanging Secret
> > of Bagog is not enough.

>Why do you think that shamans should not be able to shapechange?

Cults of Terror and Lords of Terror.  They cannot learn the
Carapace, Jabber and Claws reusably and so it should be
something they cannot do in HW.

>IIRC
>hsunchen shamans can shapechange (ok, bagogi are not hsunchen, are they?).

Not quite, but I won't go into details (and the Ituvanu of
the Telmori don't).

> >> Well unless animists get a complete victory for integrating a
> >> spirit, they get nothing also.

> > Capturing a spirit in a fetish doesn't require complete victory.

>Mind you, this could explain why scorpion-men have poor magic (or
>rather, magic is not very frequent, even though I still don't see
>why it should. Do you?).

Because Bagog is a chaotic goddess?

--Peter Metcalfe

Peter Metcalfe  wrote:
>
> >Why do you think that shamans should not be able to shapechange?
>
> Cults of Terror and Lords of Terror.  They cannot learn the
> Carapace, Jabber and Claws reusably and so it should be
> something they cannot do in HW.
>

This is also why I would rstrict the ritual of devouring and ritual
of rebirth to queens - because they were the only ones sho had access
to the divine magic spells.  Making it a secret and making the secret
available only to queens seemed on way of doing this.  IMHO it is
devouring and not shapechanging that is at the heart of what Bagog
does and this should be reflected in the secret.

Peter suggested that getting only one ability would be an impetus to
use rebirth on heroes.  IMHO the impetus for rebirth is to get
reasonably intelligent followers (though you don't want to many,
because they may challenge for your role).  References in LoT do
refer to memories (even the example character), I don't know that
everything has to be explained as integrating the spirit of the
victim (though agreed it is one way to go).

As for being magic poor. There were two main reasons.  1:) Lack of
intelligence 2:) Thed, Bagog (off the top of my head) have a survival
of the strongest cult set up. Teaching others magic increases the
power of future competitors.  Give them enough to be useful slaves,
not challengers.

Ian

--- In HeroWars@egroups.com, "Adam Betteridge" <abetteridge@g...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> Apologies to all.
>
> Looks like I missed this list when I was setting up the out of
office.
>
> Cheers
> Adam
>
>
Not really!  We noticed it after 2-3 messages and I put you on 'web
only' till you got back.

Hope you had a good time.

Jeff Kyer
List Moderator

> Alexandre Lanciani
>
> > > I think that individuals only have one spirit (ok there may be some
> > > exceptions) so I am not sure about the idea of a spirit per ability.
>
> >       But if fits with the fact that spirits in HW seem to possess >only one
> >ability (I may be grossly mistaken though).
>
> They don't.  However when you integrate a spirit or place it
> in a fetish, you can only use one spirit.

Er, isn't that one ability?  The Shaman gets to choose one ability out
of something which typifies the spirit's nature.  Squirrel spirits being
an example used in the past.

> >       Agreed. But IMO there are better ways to track these stations >than
cult
> >hierarchies. Holy Fighter could well be an advanced >occupation (requiring
> >knowledge of the Tradition Secret to enter).
>
> But a holy fighter _is_ part of the Cult of Bagog and holy people
> are part of the animist hierarchy.

Holy people would be a good way to track it.  Tough/cunning/smart enough
to be noticed but not ready (or able) to take the step to Queen or
Shaman yet.  At the risk of a Runequestism, I'd say Holy People fill the
Acolyte socio-magicnomic niche very nicely.

> >       But isn't Bagog a great chaos spirit? Then why shouldn't they >have
it?
>
> Because they have to get their spirits from Primal Chaos and
> not Bagog.

They're chaotic but to get *more* chaos one usually has to rely on
something from Primal Chaos and draw something In from Outside.  Bagog
wouldn't provide it but she'd be in a better positiont to grant access
to that tradition, perhaps.  Certainly easier that a kolating would.

> > > Bagogi shamans should not have access to these types of spirits
> > > unless they are also Queens.  You might be better of viewing
> > > the Bagogi Shamans as dealing with spirits _outside_ the Bagog
> > > tradition (like the Ituvanu shamans of the Dorastran Telmori)
> > > for the benefit of the people.

Hmmm.  Not really.  I would be thinking that the Bagogi shaman might
have access to anything inside teh tradition EXCEPT the specialist
spirits.  This would be similar to the Yu-kurgant (sp!) tradition in the
Grazelander notes.

> >But who would deal with traditional spirits, then?
>
> The Queen and also the Holy Fighters.

Andthe shamen.

> >IIRC telmori have two types of shamans.
>
> That's correct.  I suggested that the Bagogi Shamans would
> be closer to the Ituvanu rather than the ordinary Telmori
> Shamans.

I think that the bagogi wouldn't see much distinction between the two --
some spirits are easier to use and compel and others are not.  Some are
eaten and some are friends.

> >       Maybe changing the requirements? Something like: one mastery at three
> >talents from integrated spirits, a hunting ability and a >combat ability.
>
> I don't think so.  Shamans cannot shapechange unless they become
> Queens.  Merely changing the requirement for the Shapechanging Secret
> of Bagog is not enough.

Why would bagog get a shapechange secret?  I think that Ritual of
Rebirth might make a better secret for a Queen.  They are not, afterall,
hsunchen.

> >       But what level of victory is required? Normally integration >requires
a
> >complete victory, so would this ritual be useless unless >the participants
> >get a complete victory?
>
> Well unless animists get a complete victory for integrating a
> spirit, they get nothing also.
>
> --Peter Metcalfe

Yes.  And remember, its can be done as a ritual.  With all that entails
-- funky items.  Screaming estatic scorpion men chanting as their
beloved Queen devours another Outsider to become one of the People.
Holy Ground, weakened and wounded victim.  (and, of course, an extended
contest)

Oh, its easily done...

Jeff

>   From: "Alexandre Lanciani" <alexanl@...>
>> > > I don't think Bagogi shamans will have such an easy access to
>> > > Chaos.
>>
>> > But isn't Bagog a great chaos spirit? Then why shouldn't
>> they >have it?
>>
>> Because they have to get their spirits from Primal Chaos and
>> not Bagog.
>
> But then this would hold for every other chaos spirit/god as well.
>No one
>could have access to chaos spirits/affinities unless they worship Primal
>Chaos directly.

IMO chaotic creatures can gain chaotic features as an innate birthright,
but after that have to gain them directly or indirectly via Primal Chaos.
Of course any Shaman can bump into a chaos sprit by accident, but only
Primal Chaos shamans can safely (?) go direct to the source (but they end
up completely doolally as a consequence).

Thom



Thom Baguley
Human Experimental Psychology
Human Sciences, Loughborough University
Loughborough, Leicestershire LE11 3TU, UK.
Tel: +44(0)1509 223049 Fax: 223940
http://www-staff.lboro.ac.uk/~hutsb/

Ian Cooper:

>This is also why I would rstrict the ritual of devouring and ritual
>of rebirth to queens - because they were the only ones sho had access
>to the divine magic spells.

While I would restrict rebirth to the queens, I'm not so sure
about devouring.  I don't see anything wrong with allowing
the Holy Fighters to have it (although I am aware RQ3 did
restrict it to the Queens - but IMO that was a mistake).

>Making it a secret and making the secret
>available only to queens seemed on way of doing this.

Two secrets for the Queen?

--Peter Metcalfe
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Peter Metcalfe wrote:

> While I would restrict rebirth to the queens, I'm not so sure
> about devouring.  I don't see anything wrong with allowing
> the Holy Fighters to have it (although I am aware RQ3 did
> restrict it to the Queens - but IMO that was a mistake).

Possible, see below.

> >Making it a secret and making the secret
> >available only to queens seemed on way of doing this.
>
> Two secrets for the Queen?
>

Well I think my conception was more that in HW terms it is
effectively on secret - Devouring - that has two ritual applications
Consumption(?) and Rebirth and that it was only available to the
Queen.

I supose you could make Devouring a general secret, but make the
Rebirth ritual require a Queen.

Ian

Ian Cooper

> > Two secrets for the Queen?

>Well I think my conception was more that in HW terms it is
>effectively on secret - Devouring - that has two ritual applications
>Consumption(?) and Rebirth and that it was only available to the
>Queen.

But there's little else in HW where a secret has two effects.

>I supose you could make Devouring a general secret, but make the
>Rebirth ritual require a Queen.

Works for me.

--Peter Metcalfe

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Hi everyone,

Hope I'm posting this on the right list! <grin>

I've been reading through lots of my Glorantha stuff recently, and
would like to ask what's probably a really obvious question about the
Red Moon - can you see it from Sartar?

The old Cults of Prax (I was reading it this morning) states that the
Glowline is visible as a thin red line on the horizon until you get
to Alda Chur, when it becomes like a blood-red sunset, and then at
Bagnot - the Glowline proper - the moon begins to peep over the
horizon, upon which the implication is it rises further into the sky
as you approach Glamour.

This is probably really old info, and since superceded - my instinct
was that the moon was visible from Sartar, but that it went through
its phases.  If you're inside the Glowline, then it's always full.
The only thing is, I can't find any written confirmation of my gut
feeling!

It's probably a silly question - can anyone confirm?

Many thanks!

Sarah

> I've been reading through lots of my Glorantha stuff recently, and
> would like to ask what's probably a really obvious question about the
> Red Moon - can you see it from Sartar?
>
> The old Cults of Prax (I was reading it this morning) states that the
> Glowline is visible as a thin red line on the horizon until you get
> to Alda Chur, when it becomes like a blood-red sunset, and then at
> Bagnot - the Glowline proper - the moon begins to peep over the
> horizon, upon which the implication is it rises further into the sky
> as you approach Glamour.
>
> This is probably really old info, and since superseded - my instinct
> was that the moon was visible from Sartar, but that it went through
> its phases.  If you're inside the Glowline, then it's always full.
> The only thing is, I can't find any written confirmation of my gut
> feeling!
I have not seen anything to contradict the original statement yet. Though I
could be wrong as I don't have everything that was printed.
Don't worry about the red moon though. Once it becomes visible from Satar we
will get our pet Dragon to shoot it down again
(Or was that the Dragon with it's pet humans ?)
:)

> It's probably a silly question - can anyone confirm?
The only silly question is the one you don't ask :)



-

Sarah Newton:

>I've been reading through lots of my Glorantha stuff recently, and
>would like to ask what's probably a really obvious question about the
>Red Moon - can you see it from Sartar?

Yes.  It's actually visible from all over glorantha (see Glorantha
Intro p194 for evidence of its visibility from Kralorela - the
"forbidden planet called Yran" (p226) of the Fonritans was also
intended by me to be the Red Moon, although the text doesn't say so
it could be any forbidden planet.

>The old Cults of Prax (I was reading it this morning) states that the
>Glowline is visible as a thin red line on the horizon until you get
>to Alda Chur, when it becomes like a blood-red sunset, and then at
>Bagnot - the Glowline proper - the moon begins to peep over the
>horizon, upon which the implication is it rises further into the sky
>as you approach Glamour.

And since the Moon was always full within the Glowline, we had
the odd situation where one could never see the phases of the
moon.  However in Cults of Terror, Paulis Longvale could see it
from Bilini, which isn't within the Glowline.

>This is probably really old info, and since superceded - my instinct
>was that the moon was visible from Sartar, but that it went through
>its phases.  If you're inside the Glowline, then it's always full.
>The only thing is, I can't find any written confirmation of my gut
>feeling!

Your gut reaction probably came from text like Gods of Glorantha
which in the cults book (p67) says "Within the Glowline, the moon
is always full,...".

Now according to HW p239 "Within [the Glowline], no visual effect
occurs except that many people see a red nimbus around the black
moon".

--Peter Metcalfe

Thanks guys!

So, according to "latest" info, we have

i.) The Red Moon, visible from all over Glorantha, never rising or
setting, at a fixed place in the sky (although probably appearing
more directly above as you approach the Crater), which goes through
its phases.

ii.) A Glowline, visible as you cross it, within which the Moon still
goes through its phases, but which has a "red nimbus" around it even
in its black phase.

I can live with that!  I wonder if we can maintain that the Glowline
itself is still visible "on the horizon" (a la Cults of Prax), and
which becomes more visible as a phenomenon in the sky until you reach
Bagnot, etc, where you actually cross it?

I kind of like it - as though the Glowline itself were reaching up to
the Red Moon in the sky...

Any thoughts?

Big grins and thanks,

Sarah

--- In HeroWars@egroups.com, "Sarah Newton" <sarah.newton@m...> wrote:


> I kind of like it - as though the Glowline itself were reaching up
to
> the Red Moon in the sky...

Personally, although I can't remember any written evidence for it, I
always visualised the Glowline as a 'dome' with the Red Moon within
it, but at the apex (is that the right term for a dome?). Thus, with
enough altitude, you could see it curving back toward the moon.
However, this relies on my other visualisation with the Red Moon
floating UNDER the sky dome... not at all sure how it would fit in
with all celestial objects on a fixed-distance dome.

Wulf

Sarah Newton asks:
> >This is probably really old info, and since superceded - my instinct
>  >was that the moon was visible from Sartar, but that it went through
>  >its phases.  If you're inside the Glowline, then it's always full.
>  >The only thing is, I can't find any written confirmation of my gut
>  >feeling!

Its visible from all over Glorantha.  Within and without the Empire, the
phases are visible.  If the Red Moon was only full within the Glowline, her
people would not see the wonderous journey she has made dsiplayed upon her
face.

What is the glowline then?  Effectively it is a power shunt.  While those in
the north might see one phase, those in the south see its opposite.  The
Reaching Moon Temples literally shunt the moon energies around to equalise
the flow.  Hence in HW terms the Glowline does not give a full moon effect,
rather a normalised effect on all Lunar magicians.

If a magician knows the secret of his cult, then he is aware of the oneness
of all aspects of the Goddess within the mystical union of Sedenya, and for
that reason, they are at Full Moon effect within the glowline, it a benefit
of their illumination.

Other benefits of the Red Moon "web" of energy is the ability of the Empire
to shunt magical power from different parts of it to areas where they need
it.  So for example, when the Northern Sartarites attempted to attack Tarsh
while the main Imperial Army advanced on Runegate, the Empire shifted the
ritual backing of thousands of intitates from across the Empire to the
priests of the RM temple in Tarsh, allowing them to devestate the oncoming
army with huge ranged spells.

Note also that the Dragon Event in 1625 is more than just a disaster for the
large numbers of Lunars present.  While the RM ceremony was in effect, the
magical power from across the Empire was being coordinated by priests in
every RM temple.  They were pouring power into the event to facilitate the
Sky fixing ceremony so that the temple could activate.  When the Dragon ate
the temple, the backlash from this was immense.  All that energy was
scattered, without control.  Priests across the Empire died in droves, some
of the RM temples took physical damage.  The heroes of the Red Moon partaking
of the ritual lost powers and many heroquesters who stood on the mythic
planes as guards, wards, conduits and ritual proxies were either lost, killed
or driven insane.

The effect on the Empire was catastrophic.  Many of the best Lunar citizens
died, leaving a power vaccuum that was filled by those less than pleased with
the Glorious rule of Argenteus.  When he dissapears in 1628, the Empire is
ripe for civil war.

If it hadn't been for this event, Sartar might well have freed itself, but
for a year at best.  The full power of the Empire would have crushed Sartar,
as it had before.  Sartar effectively warred with Tarsh and a few Imperial
troops for the next few years after the Dragon Event, until 1638.

Martin Laurie

In a message dated 9/11/00  1:29:35PM, you write:

<< > I kind of like it - as though the Glowline itself were reaching up
  to
  > the Red Moon in the sky...

  Personally, although I can't remember any written evidence for it, I
  always visualised the Glowline as a 'dome' with the Red Moon within
  it, but at the apex >>

My own vision is of the moon being draped with a luminous red net which forms
a giant marquee over the empure, pinned in place and supported by the Temples
of the Reaching Moon.

Yara Aranis is a spider-like goddess after all.

Keith N

Sarah Newton

>I can live with that!  I wonder if we can maintain that the Glowline
>itself is still visible "on the horizon" (a la Cults of Prax), and
>which becomes more visible as a phenomenon in the sky until you reach
>Bagnot, etc, where you actually cross it?

Works for me.  Note that in some places, it might not be visible
(because of great mountains in the way).

--Peter Metcalfe
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Wulf Corbett

>Personally, although I can't remember any written evidence for it, I
>always visualised the Glowline as a 'dome' with the Red Moon within
>it, but at the apex (is that the right term for a dome?). Thus, with
>enough altitude, you could see it curving back toward the moon.

You are thinking of Nick's idea about the Roof of Manarlavus
(from the Glorious ReAscent).  I do believe that this is
what the Dara Happans think the glowline as is.

>However, this relies on my other visualisation with the Red Moon
>floating UNDER the sky dome... not at all sure how it would fit in
>with all celestial objects on a fixed-distance dome.

Doesn't apply to the Red Moon (the Blue Streak, Entekos or
other Planets for that matter).  The Red Moon lies at the
boundary between the lower and middle air (but I've heard
Stephen Martin suggest that within the glowline, the moon
actually appears at the border between the middle and upper
air).

--Peter Metcalfe
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Sarah mentioned:

> ii.) A Glowline, visible as you cross it, within which the Moon still
> goes through its phases, but which has a "red nimbus" around it even
> in its black phase.

Our original intent in proposing this was that by day the Dark Moon (i.e.
Dying and Black phases) would be visible within the Glowline as a black body
in the sky; by night, as the corona/halo/nimbus described in the Glorantha
Introduction.

Outside the Glowline, of course, the Dark Moon is invisible day and night.

::::  Email: <mailto:Nick_Brooke@...>
Nick
::::  Website: <http://www.btinternet.com/~Nick_Brooke/>

>The Red Moon lies at the boundary between the lower
>and middle air (but I've heard Stephen Martin suggest
>that within the glowline, the moon actually appears
>at the border between the middle and upper air).

No, the Red Moon lies at the boundary of the middle and upper air, but
outside the glowline it *appears* to be at the boundary of the lower and
middle air. This is, of course, a mis-perception.

Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/
Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let
alone those of any organisations, nations, species,
or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated.

I mentioned I was working on some Vingan Initiation ideas (for a
soon-to-be-run game session) and Bruce Ferrie sent me some of his work on
the topic. So inspired by Bruce (and Jane Williams and KoDP) I just
finished my version of the mythlet "How Vinga Taught the Clanswomen to
Fight".

It is over a 1000 words, so if anyone wants a copy to comment on let me
know by email (I'll post it to the list if preferred). I'm not completely
happy with it, but I'm quite pleased with the overall structure.

Thom

Sure.  I'd be interested.  I've got a cranky Vingan on my hands that I
should appease with a heroquest or somesuch... =)

Jeff

Keith wrote

> Yara Aranis is a spider-like goddess after all.

A spider with two legs pulled off... the goddess of the Reaching Moon
has 4 arms.

(Arachne Solara, by contrast, has 6 -- check her illo in King of Dragon Pass.)


David Dunham   <mailto:dunham@...>
Glorantha/HW/RQ page: <http://www.pensee.com/dunham/glorantha.html>
Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein

On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:08:14 +0100, Thom Baguley
<t.s.baguley@...> wrote:

>I mentioned I was working on some Vingan Initiation ideas

>It is over a 1000 words, so if anyone wants a copy to comment on let me
>know by email (I'll post it to the list if preferred). I'm not completely
>happy with it, but I'm quite pleased with the overall structure.

Send a copy to Andrew Graham, in case he doesn't ask for himself :)

Wulf

David Dunham:

> > Yara Aranis is a spider-like goddess after all.

>A spider with two legs pulled off... the goddess of the Reaching Moon
>has 4 arms.

She certainly is depicted with four arms on the cover
of Gods of Glorantha but elsewhere she has six.  There
is in KoS the six-armed goddess of Saird who guards
the Temple of the Reaching Storm in Saird and who drags
back Sheng to hell after a terrific battle which makes her
known as the Goddess of Six Arms and Two Hands (all this
from Argrath's Saga)

The description of her as "spider-like" actually comes
from the Fortunate Succession and so that's why in the
Glorantha Intro, the glowline is described to be a web of
lunar energy that surrounds the empire.  To further the
Arachne Solara parallel, Yara Aranis after feeding
devouring her sacrifices begets the Reaching Moon.

--Peter Metcalfe
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