On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 05:12:29 -0000, Kirk Huff <khuff2@...> wrote:
> I'm very new to Fate (lots of oohs and aahs while reading it)

I know the feeling :)

> andhave been lurking for a
> few days. I've started writing down thoughts for a home grown
> basically-generic fantasy
> variant but realized that I am still confused about how magical items
> and item discovery
> would work with the aspect/extras system even after rereading the core
> manual and other
> linked material. Any thoughts on the questions below or useful links
> would be much
> appreciated.
>
> I think I got that a player (with GM consult) can develop a magical
> item's properties by
> spending skill points, i.e. an elf-forged rapier of frost may take two
> skill points (elf forged:
> glows when around goblinoids, +1 vs goblinoids; and frost: +1 due to
> frost, can reroll
> attack against fire-based monsters or fire mages). Let me know if I've
> messed up that
> idea! :)

I'll impersonate Fred for a moment and say, about those +1 modifiers, that
it's your game and if it works there, that's great. But here's how we
would normally do it.
Elf Forged Rapier of Frost
[] Hates Goblionoids
[] Frosty
It has two of its own aspects which its user can mark off at certain
times. The way these aspects can be used does vary. The most common is
just like a PCs aspects. The user might be attacking or being attacked by
goblinoids, and decide to mark off Hates Goblinoids for a reroll or bonus.
Once done, no further use is gained from that aspect until all aspects
refresh.

If the GM considered the Glows Near Goblinoids a powerful ability, then
instead of treating it as in invocable aspect, it could be a continuous
special effect, maybe recorded like:
Elf Forged Rapier of Frost
[X] Glows Near Goblionoids
[] Frosty
Then, whenever goblinoids are near, it glows. But the aspect can't be used
for anything else - it is committed.
But if goblinoids are only an occasional enemy, the Glows Near Goblinoids
could be just treated as a nifty free bonus - it always works (unless the
goblinoids are hiding with magic), but you still get to use the aspect for
attackling them too. After all, you have spent 2 skill points on this
item, which in a standard game is not a small commitment.

One thing to consider here. FATE generally avoids items that give a
continual bonus, in favour of items which gave a bopnus when it is
dramatically interesting to do so. So, you're fighting with your magical
frosty sword. It's apparfent that it's frosty and magical, but most of the
time you're winning or drawing even and so it doesn't matter. But then,
when you need it's bonus, you have it - if you feel this is a good moment
to use it.

> I like keeping magic items precious, and also like the Earthdawn-esqe
> system of making
> the players pay skill points (and maybe accomplish something
> in-character) to access
> additional powers, so keeping the level of magic down through extra-ing
> is not an issue
> for me at all. Some things I'm unsure about:
>
> 1) Does an extra-ed item have the same plot invulnerability as an
> aspected item, only
> without the Fate point bonus for involuntary invocation? Is there
> another difference?

It doesn't have the same plot invulnerability, no. But extras are supposed
to be for things that are replaceable. Magic items (outside of D&D)
usually aren't. So I would allow some benefits - non-aspect magic items
might be broken, but can be repaired. They might be stolen, but if the
player makes an effort, they should be made recoverable.

> For example: If a character wearing an extra-ed Gauzy Shawl of Seduction
> is a hit by a
> fireball is the shawl always assumed to be unsinged? If it's destroyed,
> what happens to the
> skill points?

If it is destroyed (and not just damaged, needing a special ritual from an
unusually seductive Hag to repair it - small adventure plot springing from
it), then the skill points should be freed up for something else - a new,
different magic item.
That's just my opinion, though - I can't remember if it is explicitly
addressed in the rules.
One thing though - how did it get destroyed? In the standard combat
system, things only get destroyed if the GM chooses to destroy them. It
can't happen on a random roll. So this situation may never come up.

> 2) It seems that the discovery of a magical item always requires
> GM-player consultation.
<snip>

> How do you handle the introduction of a magical item that would
> logically enter the game
> even if nobody pays for it? For example, the antagonist of the
> adventure, who has always
> been described as wielding a Poisoned Axe of Darkness, is finally
> slain. A PC takes the
> sword but the player refuses to pay any points. Should the sword still
> have its special
> properties? Backfire on the ignorant PC by slowly poisoning him? Work,
> but disappear in
> mysterious and improbable circumstances at the nearest opportunity?

You can introduce magic items any time, and let players use them. But if
no-one buys it at the end of a phase, you should contrive to get rid of
it. Make sure the players know this upfront - if they don't pay for it,
they don't get to keep it.
This allows you to introduce one-off items needed for a specific
adventure, which is always good.
By all means use the drawbacks you illustrate if the players are trying to
get something for free - but if you just tell them from the outset that
they are supposed to pay for items that are kept beyond the current phase.
Most will be happy to play ball.

> 3) How much say should a player have over the powers of an item? Should
> all the powers
> be stated up front when offering the player an item, or develop one at a
> time? Should the
> player have veto power over a proposed power - "No, I'm not going to
> spend a third skill
> point to discover that my longbow Spleen-Piercer is Blessed by the
> Goddess of Twilight! I
> want it to be an Imp-Banisher!"- or can the GM force the issue? (I
> would try to negotiate
> of course, but I could see how some nasty arguments could pop up.)

This is up to each GM, based on how many items and what sort he wants to
allow in the game. But the default FATE assumption is that players get to
describe everything, and the GM gets to say yes or no, and may suggest
alternatives or tweaks.

> 4) It seems a little strict to require a skill point for consumable
> items, i.e. potions, acorns
> that grow into sheltering trees in a few minutes, a gold chain the links
> of which turn into
> cages of energy, etc. I assume that because they are are sort of
> limited by definition, they
> normally do not last long enough for plot vulnerability to become an
> issue and are left
> alone...

Remember, all items in standard FATE are consumable. They have aspect
boxes, and they get spent.
Potions and the like can be taken like anything else. If you have spent a
point here, then you have a _supply_ of potions which replenishes between
sessions or adventures, or you know how to make those potions. (It's a
specialised skill - you can't make other types of potions - just this one.)

Final note: I personally think any item that costs more than 1 skill point
should also have an aspect devoted to it. It's a big, important part of
the character.

Darren