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Aspect vs Extras (yet again)   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #2069 of 16065 |
Re: [FateRPG] Aspect vs Extras (yet again)


On May 20, 2004, at 3:08 PM, Dave Hill wrote:
> So simply saying I have "Excalibur" as an Aspect item doesn't really
> do anything for me except in narrative, character terms, and in
> knowing that I have a sword that means a lot to me. If I want it to
> do something, I have to take Excalibur as an Extra, and give it boxes
> of Really Sharp, Protective Scabbard, Mystical Origin, etc.
>
> Yes?

Well, only partly. In making Excalibur an aspect, you still get the
benefits of it as an aspect, which means that, generally speaking, it's
going to be pretty cool. Whacking people? Check? Cutting things?
Check. Holding it, flashing in the sun as you give the heroic speech
before charging the forces of darkness? Check. An aspect already tells
a lot of the story about what something can do: extras are just over
and beyond that.

In fact, the limits of the aspect are really up to the GM.

Take the aspect Knight as an example (This will make sense in a
minute). If I just take Knight, everyone's got a pretty clear sense of
what that means. However, if I take the aspect "Knight of the Stars"
and define it as an order that evolved from the bodyguards of an
ancient order of astronomers, and whose skills include traditional
knight stuff, and also some science, math, stargazing and so on. By
creating a more interesting aspect, I've also created a more powerful
(in this sense meaning applicable in more situations) aspect.

The same thinking could be applied to an item. As such, if you take
the aspect "Sword of Power" and leave it at that, then, well, it's a
pretty cool sword. Lots of potential uses for the aspect. But if you
come to me with a _legend_, with the tale of this sword and what it
_means_ to people and to the story, then you've done the same thing:
made it more potent by making it more interesting. As such, Were I to
make king arthur I'd be unlikely to buy any extras to cover excalibur,
though I might for the scabbard, because it's a little munchkin-y. :)

Naturally, that's not the only way to do it. Not everyone is
comfortable with the subjectiveness of the approach, or the limited
number of boxes that an aspect may have. Also, frankly, a lot depend
son how you see magic items. D&D has shaped a lot of the world, so it
becomes easy to want to describe Excalibur as a "+5 keen vorpal
longsword" - and there's nothing wrong with that. Extras allow you to
describe things in terms like that if that's what you want, but it' s
not the only way. Ultimately you can do it either way, the only
question is which you're more comfortable with.

On a purely personal level, extras serve two big roles: they cover
widgets like James bond gadgets or things that are neat, but not really
central. They also serve as a potential check against an abuse I see
very little of in practice. See, in theory, one could buy the aspect
"God" and demand that it grants omnipotence. It's an extreme example,
but there are others as well. Once you open the door to powers and
magic, there will be some player who will really try to maximize things
solely because they can. Extras provide a mechanical limiter on suc
things, and they work just fine, but that does not mean you need them.
If everyone is ok folding that stuff into aspects, that's totally cool
with me.

To give an example, Let's take a wizard's staff, something like the
Staff of Magius, Raistlin's staff from Dragonlance. it's magical, and
it can generate light on command. There are a few ways to handle this:

Pure Aspect:
Staff of Magius [][]
The GM just considers light to be an interesting special effect, so
the character can just use it whenever they want without a mechanical
limitation. Beyond that, it can be used for supplementing most any
magical task, and occasional weirdness, like boosting the wielder's
life force.

Supplemental Extras
Staff of Magius [][]
* Illumination
A single extra covers the ability to grant light at will, since it
sees pretty heavy use and is effectively a schtick for the item.
Beyond that, the aspects ca be used much in the same way as pure
aspect.

Explicit Extras
Staff of Magius [][]
* Illumination
* Magical Battery
* Transfer Stamina
* Unknown Power

This lays out what the staff can in pretty clear terms (assuming there
are rules for each extra) but also limits the staff much more severely.
The assumption is that the only powers it has are those listed as
extras, so the Aspect boxes will be somewhat less flexible, though
those things it can do will be more potent.

Personally, I'l probably go with the Supplemental Extras approach in
this case.

-Rob D.




Fri May 21, 2004 5:19 pm

r_donoghue
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Message #2069 of 16065 |
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Even after sifting through some of the posts here, I'm still having some difficulties "nailing" the distinction between an Item-as-Aspect and an Item-as-Extra....
Dave Hill
davehill47
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May 21, 2004
3:58 pm

... Well, only partly. In making Excalibur an aspect, you still get the benefits of it as an aspect, which means that, generally speaking, it's going to be...
Robert Donoghue
r_donoghue
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May 21, 2004
5:19 pm

Got to thinking as I was reading this discussion. I think the central confusion that prompts these questions stems from the simply staggering array of options...
Manveru
j0vin
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May 21, 2004
6:27 pm

On Fri, 21 May 2004 12:25:21 -0600, Manveru <manveru@...> ... I sort of agree with this. Certainly, Fate lays down few specifics about "how can...
Landon Darkwood
jhudsui
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May 21, 2004
7:22 pm

Rather than answering this question, I want to give an example of an item-as-aspect from literature where the item seems particularly unlikely to have been an...
howard_m_thompson
howard_m_tho...
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May 21, 2004
5:22 pm

... That is an awesome example! -Rob D....
Robert Donoghue
r_donoghue
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May 21, 2004
5:27 pm

... itself) ... A teeny, tiny little point, but you don't have to spend a skill rank just to get an extra as I understand it - that first skill rank includes...
Adrian Price
afprice75
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May 22, 2004
3:46 am

... rank ... Upon rereading -- yes, you are correct. Thanks. *** Dave...
Dave Hill
davehill47
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May 25, 2004
1:27 am
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