On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, ranthilian wrote:

> Ok, here is my problem with this. Joe and Bob are shooting
> at each other. While I understand your point about
> 'getting the shot set up' vs. 'getting the drop', I still
> don't see what Joe's shooting skill has to do with him not
> being hit by Bob.

I do.

* Shooting at Bob faster and/or more effectively than
Bob shoots at him
* Recognizing how to limit Bob's shot opportunities

> I could see a 'Tactical' or 'Battlefield Awareness' or
> similar skills making a difference in whether you get shot
> but how well you shoot something yourself has nothing to
> do with not getting hit in my mind (other than if you
> eliminate the other guy before he can shoot you). Having
> ranged combat be a roll of shooting skill vs. shooting
> skill feels like giving the combatants a 'ranged parry'
> which is incredibly silly in my mind.

You're drilling things down to a too-atomic level if
that's where the problem is. If you're doing shooting
skill vs shooting skill, then you're in a situation where
you're doing an exchange-based combat, right? Exchanges
are not about "I take one shot", they're about an exchange
of gunfire.

If you're going to use exchange-based combat, your skills
should reflect _multiple_ combat considerations, which
include the defensive elements -- finding good cover,
recognizing the gun the other guy's using and counting
shots taken, and more. A skill in "Pistols" is, in an
exchange-based combat world, never simply "how good of a
shot am I".

> Basically it doesn't feel like dramatic action to me, it
> feels like trying to preserve the one-roll combat mechanic
> at the cost of suspension of disbelief.

Then by all means, don't use exchange-based combat! (It's
almost like we provided multiple options for a reason.)

(That said, I think the sense of disbelief that you're
experiencing could be one that is created by concepts that
have been introduced by other games. Bringing those games'
baggage with you to Fate is one of the surest ways to make
Fate difficult for you. I'm not saying this _is_ the case
with _you_, but it's certainly a common difficulty.)

--
Fred Hicks * "Curse you iago and your fast fingers!" - Rob Donoghue
Co-Author of Fate - Managing Editor of Fudge Factor - The 'fan' in fanatic
Fate RPG * http://www.faterpg.com/ Fudge Factor * http://www.fudgefactor.org/
Plink * http://www.rainlikely.com/ Jim Butcher * http://www.jim-butcher.com/