Having re-read the original post to this list as well as the responces, I'd
like to thank Longspeak who has already said most of what I would have to
begin with.

A few points worth noting:
The average magic score is 0 rather than 3
if we look at the average sphere there should only be one or two mages of
anykind of talent
most people don't have Magic.  Everyone will Air earth fire and water.

That a mage of average skills has a 3 in magic is different than average
people having an average magic score.

Having someone invest in magic get a two point bump seems to solve one
problem and create another.

Lets talk about the killing.  It takes a 5 pt mage to kill the average
person with a single magic spell.

According to the book, the Average mage can't kill the average man with a
single spell.

Lets see what a 3 point mage can do to the average man.

He could set the average man's clothes on fire. (heck even a level 2 mage
should be able to do that)  While the average man is frantic the mage with
malicious intent could slowly burn average man alive. 1 Spell sets clothes
on fire.  1 spell tends the hearth to keep the fire going.  Perhaps another
spell to redirect water or whatever else the targeted man would do to put
himself out. Perhaps a minor spell of bright flame towards anyone who goes
to the targets aid.
The target dies.  It just took many rathere than one spell to do it.


The Average mage also has the advantage of distance on his average target.
He can hit him with invisable hands from across the room.  Being a mage
even if he only has a 3 in fire he can keep throwing magic punches out of
the physical range of his target till the target gets knocked out.   So it
may take more time but the average mage can eventually kill the average
man.  Being Powerful rather than Average just means the level 5 mage can do
it faster.


Also I'd argue that someone with an earth score of 7 is not meant to be
hurt by a fireball from a 5pt mage.  To have invested 7 points in earth is
to have someone more than just hardy.  Using the 2 element test even with
an earth and air of 5 you should be able to hurt 7pt Earth guy.  He shrugs
it off the way you might shrugg off the attack of a 10 year old.


What makes the 2 element test useful is that it gives the player a
guideline to effect that once they get used to the only limitation is in
their creativity.

kat writes:
>Also I'd argue that someone with an earth score of 7 is not meant to be
>hurt by a fireball from a 5pt mage.

This is a very intersting example.

Clearly, based on intent, a character with an Earth score of 7 should
not be killable outright, or even woundable in a single attack by a 5
point mage.

On the other hand, the 5 point mage has actually invested 10 points in
their magic, leaving only 10 points to spend on the other three
elements (other than their primary) and powers -- less than the 7
Earth character has.  So they deserve some consideration, and should
have a significant advantage in a direct conflict, all else being
equal...they just shouldn't be able to take the "I stomp my opponent
flat with magic" approach in that situation, but should have to get
more subtle.

--
        Joshua Kronengold (mneme@(io.com, labcats.org))  |\      _,,,--,,_  ,)
--^-- "Get your mind right and you can make a stick    /,`.-'`'   -,  ;-;;'
   /\\  your wand and the sky your hat and a puddle     |,4-  ) )-,_ ) /\
/-\\\  your magic..." -- Granny Weatherwax            '---''(_/--' (_/-'

--- In Everway-L@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Kronengold <mneme@i...>
wrote:
> On the other hand, the 5 point mage has actually invested 10 points
> in their magic,
>
No, the 5-point mage has invested 5 points in magic.  The other five
points go to an element, giving him at least a five in the element, a
respectable score which has its own uses.  They weren't thrown away.

> So they deserve some consideration,
>
Again, they do.  That's what the two-element rules is for.

> and should have a significant advantage in a direct conflict, all
> else being equal...they just shouldn't be able to take the "I stomp
> my opponent flat with magic" approach in that situation, but should
> have to get more subtle.
>
Why should a mystic with 20 points automatically have any advantage -
significant or otherwise - over another 20 point hero?  That's like
saying "I spent three points on my invulnerability power, so I should
be invulnerable to fatigue, because I couldn't spend those points on
Earth like I wanted.  And I should be able to hit harder with my
invulnerable fists because I couldn't spend that extra point on Fire."

Powers & Magic bestow additional abilities in exchange for having
fewer points to spilt among the elements.  The 'strength' of a mage
then *is* those additional abilities.  You have traded away stonger
elements for additional abilities, and now it's up to you the player
to make those abilities work for you.

If you don't want the versatility, buy powers, or spend the points on
stronger elements.  But don't mourn the mage's lack of power, because
while you are, he will charm your daughter, steal your gold, cripple
your cattle, dry your crops and turn the neighbors' hearts against
you.

A Thousand Times,

LT

longspeak@... writes:
>--- In Everway-L@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Kronengold <mneme@i...>
>wrote:
>> On the other hand, the 5 point mage has actually invested 10 points
>> in their magic,
>No, the 5-point mage has invested 5 points in magic.  The other five
>points go to an element, giving him at least a five in the element, a
>respectable score which has its own uses.  They weren't thrown away.

No they weren't.  But the five points they spent on magic should have
about the same impact that the same five points would have had, had
they been spent on boosting the element to 10, ignoring the fact
that you can't actually -buy- an attribute at level 10.

Some of this is going to be impact in terms of flexibility and
versitility, sure...but it's still very important that a level 5 mage
is more concentrated than anyone with a 9 in any element.

>> and should have a significant advantage in a direct conflict, all
>> else being equal...they just shouldn't be able to take the "I stomp
>> my opponent flat with magic" approach in that situation, but should
>> have to get more subtle.
>Why should a mystic with 20 points automatically have any advantage -
>significant or otherwise - over another 20 point hero?

Anyone with a higher applicable element should have a huge advantage
in a direct conlfict with someone with a lower element.  That's a lot
of what the elements mean -- you are buying far greater power in the
field in question, and are paying for it by taking weaknesses in other
fields.  -Both- of these need to come into play -- a 9/6/3/2 character
isn't in any balanced if they aren't penalized for having two very
weak elements.  If the 9 and 6 are in fire and earth, they should win
any direct physical confrontation, but should also run into situations
where their incompetence at perception, empathy, and communication are
a major factor.

By the same token, a character with 5-7 points in magic is hugely
concentrated in magic, and should get a similarly huge impact out of
it.

>That's like
>saying "I spent three points on my invulnerability power, so I should
>be invulnerable to fatigue, because I couldn't spend those points on
>Earth like I wanted.  And I should be able to hit harder with my
>invulnerable fists because I couldn't spend that extra point on Fire."

Uh...no.
It's like saying "I spend 3 points on my invulnerability power, so my
power should have as much impact on the game as just spending the same
three points on Earth."  (which, IMO, means it should be far stronger,
but not have the wide applications that a high Earth score has; if
you're charging 3 points for "invulnerable", I assume it's frequent,
double major, or just triple-major, since it sure isn't versitile).

>The 'strength' of a mage then *is* those additional abilities.

And yet...magic costs double.

Powers generally cost a lot less than an element, but have a much
higher, more specific impact.
Elements cost quite a bit, but are very powerful at high levels, and
moreover, you are (justly) penalized for not having any one of them.
Magic sits in between -- it's as expensive as an element to get to a
decent level, and therefore weakens your "true" element total much
more than powers do, yet it's far too easy to not let it have nearly
the impact that the same level of an elment will (it's too easy to let
very expensive powers also fall into this trap as well).

--
        Joshua Kronengold (mneme@(io.com, labcats.org))  |\      _,,,--,,_  ,)
--^-- "Get your mind right and you can make a stick    /,`.-'`'   -,  ;-;;'
   /\\  your wand and the sky your hat and a puddle     |,4-  ) )-,_ ) /\
/-\\\  your magic..." -- Granny Weatherwax            '---''(_/--' (_/-'

--- In Everway-L@yahoogroups.com, longspeak@c... wrote:
> If you don't want the versatility, buy powers, or spend the points
on
> stronger elements.  But don't mourn the mage's lack of power,
because
> while you are, he will charm your daughter, steal your gold,
cripple
> your cattle, dry your crops and turn the neighbors' hearts against
> you.
>


Apparently you hang out with a much rougher crowd of mages then I
do! "Charm your daughter" indeed, I never!

~runester~

--- In Everway-L@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Kronengold <mneme@i...>
wrote:
> But the five points they spent on magic should have about the same
> impact that the same five points would have had, had they been
> spent on boosting the element to 10, ignoring the fact that you
> can't actually -buy- an attribute at level 10.  Some of this is
> going to be impact in terms of flexibility and versitility,
> sure...but it's still very important that a level 5 mage is more
> concentrated than anyone with a 9 in any element.
>
I think our disagreement at its most fundamental level one of breadth
versus depth.  You seem to be arguing that points "sacrificed" to
Magic should purchase a depth of ability equal to those same points
being spent on an element.  Magic as written goes the other way.
Magic is all about breadth of ability.

When you spend points on Magic, you are buying more than just the
abilities you could have had if you had spent those points on raising
an element.  You are buying a broad range of abilities.

When you spend points on a single element, you are investing in a
depth of ability.  While each element still covers a relatively wide
variety of attributes, none possesses the same breadth of ability as
Magic, so your Fire-9 hero is pretty darned focused

How do I know this?  Because in the rules as written, the two-element
test lets you compare your Magic of (we'll stick with) 5, to ANY two
elements, also at 5.  With a single word, my Gandalf-wannabe from the
previous example, can hold off a warrior with Fire-5 and Earth-5.  He
can also grow crops like a Farmer with Earth-5 and Air-5, detect and
counter a mystical influnce as a Hero with Water-5 and Earth-5 and
make someone obey him as a commanding hero with Air-5 and Fire-5
might do.

Now again, if you prefer to play a version of the game where you
emphasize depth over breadth, that's fine.  But recognize that you
have changed the rules as written.  I personally am a big fan of
changing the rules.  But you have to know your starting point before
you can go changing things around.

> Anyone with a higher applicable element should have a huge advantage
> in a direct conlfict with someone with a lower element.  That's a
> lot of what the elements mean -- you are buying far greater power
> in the field in question, and are paying for it by taking
> weaknesses in other fields.  -Both- of these need to come into
> play -- a 9/6/3/2 character isn't in any balanced if they aren't
> penalized for having two very weak elements.  If the 9 and 6 are in
> fire and earth, they should win any direct physical confrontation,
> but should also run into situations where their incompetence at
> perception, empathy, and communication are a major factor.
>
It almost seems as if you are lumping Magic in there as if it was the
fifth element.  It isn't.  Again, we have the breadth vs depth
dichotomy.

By concentrating on Elements (or an Element), you are going for depth
of ability.  By concentrating on Magic, you are going for breadth.
The Fire-9 hero has taken a truly remarkable depth of ability.  The
Magic-5 hero has taken a nearly as remarkable breadth of ability.
The Fire-9 hero can do things related to Fire (say bring a mighty
wall crashing down around everyone's ears), that a magic-5 Hero
cannot hope to match.  But the same Magic-5 hero can perform feats
that the Fire-9 hero cannot hope to match.

> Uh...no.
> It's like saying "I spend 3 points on my invulnerability power, so
> my power should have as much impact on the game as just spending
> the same three points on Earth."  (which, IMO, means it should be
> far stronger, but not have the wide applications that a high Earth
> score has; if you're charging 3 points for "invulnerable", I assume
> it's frequent, double major, or just triple-major, since it sure
> isn't versitile).
>
I used a sample power from the book for common ground.
Invulberability is a Frequent/Twice Major power that makes you
impervious to external harm.

Points spent in one area do not have the same impact as points spent
in another area.  If they did, there'd only be one element, and no
need for powers or magic.

When you buy all elements at five, does each individual point have
the same impact as if you'd bought Fire-8 and the others at 4?  No.
You've gone for breadth of ability.  Had you purchased Fire-8, you
would have traded some breath of ability for an impressive depth of
ability.

> >The 'strength' of a mage then *is* those additional abilities.
>
> And yet...magic costs double.
>
No, it doesn't.  Saying that is discounting the points spent on the
element itself.  A Fire-5 Magic-5 mystic can fight pretty darned well
without resorting to magic.  The five points spent on Fire have
bought Fire-5, with all that implies.  The five points spent on Magic
have then purchased a broad range of other abilities, some of them
unrelated to Fire.

I recognize that you want to make magic more powerful.  But to
maintain game balance you will have to sacrifice some breadth.  Or
run an all-mage game.

A Thousand Times,

LT

[I'm cross-posting this (with some changes to account for formatting
differences) from the RPGNet Forums, because I think it might be of
interest to my fellow Everwayans.  For my fellow list members, I've
been getting more and more into the indie-RPG movement, which
Everway, as a seemingly abandoned game, is part of.]

I was having my morning coffee at my FLCS (Favorite Local Coffee
Shop), going over notes for the upcoming Everway story I'm preparing
for my group.  To take a break, I hauled out my No Press RPG Anthology
(http://www.nopress.net/index.php) and started thumbing through it
again.  It was while I was re-reading parts of Pretender
(http://ivanhoeunbound.com/pretender.html) (the reason I bought the
book in the first place) that I realized I could adapt parts of
Pretender to Everway.  A very interesting idea, considering parts of
Pretender were adapted from Everway in the first place.

Pretender's definitions of the four Elements are simpler, more
direct.  Not 'better' but more straightforward.  I'm not certain I'd
use them, but they are defintely more easily explained to new players.

The addition of a fifth 'element' Spirit (which governs supernatural
ability and acuity) makes powers & Magic a bit easier to govern.

Having no set limit on point totals is remarkable, and very Everway
in spirit.  Trust the players to assign the traits they feel best fit
the concept.

Powers become easier to govern.  With no set point limits,
considerations of Frequent, Major & Versatile become irrelevant when
writing the Hero.  All powers become free, with the player and GM
(and other players) working to define the abilities and limits.

Magic would still use a governing element, that helps define how the
magic works (i.e. what rituals must be performed to invoke the
effect), but Spirit would govern the effacacy of the magic.  Magic
would no longer have a separate score.

The 'advancement system' is equally interesting.  If you want to make
a change to your Hero, run it by the GM and other players.  If they
all agree, just change the Hero.

The shifting narration of actions during play is perhaps the coolest
aspect.  I love the idea that ANY player or the GM might have to
narrate the outcome of any action.  I also like the idea of making
your declarations deliberately vague up front to allow more room for
narrating the outcome.

The dice mechanic is interesting, and the only one I've seen that
encourages player interaction.  Assigning dice to different
categories after you roll give the player more control, but assures
interesting outcomes.

I also like the idea of the GM and players working together up front
to determine the sort of games they want.  It makes the game more
scalable, and lets players have input right away regarding themes
they'd like to explore.

Has anyone tried this particular crossover?  If so, how'd it go?
What did you do differently than what I've described?  What worked
and what didn't?

A Thousand Times,

LT

Folken:



Its been awhile since I posted on here. Nice to see nothing much has
changed. I was playing the EVERWARP game until it faded away. It was
a great game and I really hope it reappears soon.

I was up early this morning, reading some old issues of HEAVY METAL
fantasy magazine, praying, listening to jazz...and thinking about
Everway. I was wondering ...

... are there any novelizations or short stories published that
feature Everway as the setting and world? I have found works of
fiction for almost every roleplaying game and system out there. I
know Everway was more a fringe game, but I have to ask...

... and if there is no published material, is there at least a
Website I can visit that features Everway fiction written by players
and fans? Do we have such a place attached to this Group?

... and what about a Hero Database? Do we have any place to feature
our favorite Hero creations? A few strange women introduced
themselves to me this morning - Thirteen Moons and Lost Daughter -
and they both wanted to know if, after I created them, they could
find a place other than my hard drive to call home. I thought
posting the question would be good.

So, there it is: my eaarly morning post for the first Sunday in
Feburary.



- Hades

>
>... and if there is no published material, is there at least a
>Website I can visit that features Everway fiction written by players
>and fans? Do we have such a place attached to this Group?

Some stuff is up at the Everweb (of course) and more at Arcana on
Gaslight's site (The Family Legends Project, for instance, is all
fiction).

I've put some more of my writing up on my own page:
http://www.morat.demon.co.uk/Everway/

There's the four-part "Conversations with a Dragon" and two other stories.
--
--
"The T'ang emperors were strong believers in the pills of
immortality.  More emperors died of poisoning from ingesting minerals
in the T'ang than in any other dynasty" - Eva Wong _The Shambhala
Guide to Taoism_

Paul K.

I've got 10 heroes on my site and more than happy to put other peoples
heroes up there.



http://uk.geocities.com/johnagatehouse@btopenworld.com/Heroes/heroes.htm





John G



P.S. Sorry for not getting time to finish the bestiary yet, it will be done.



P.P.S. Belated congrats to Rob and the Everbaby.



'"Can a magician kill a man by magic?" Lord Wellington asked Strange.
Strange frowned. He seemed to dislike the question. "I suppose a magician
might," he admitted, "but a gentleman never could."

From 'Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell' by Susanna Clarke





   _____

From: hades3030 [mailto:hades3030@...]
Sent: 06 February 2005 11:59
To: Everway-L@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Everway-L] Everway Novelizations, Fiction, and Hero Database




Folken:



Its been awhile since I posted on here. Nice to see nothing much has
changed. I was playing the EVERWARP game until it faded away. It was
a great game and I really hope it reappears soon.

I was up early this morning, reading some old issues of HEAVY METAL
fantasy magazine, praying, listening to jazz...and thinking about
Everway. I was wondering ...

... are there any novelizations or short stories published that
feature Everway as the setting and world? I have found works of
fiction for almost every roleplaying game and system out there. I
know Everway was more a fringe game, but I have to ask...

... and if there is no published material, is there at least a
Website I can visit that features Everway fiction written by players
and fans? Do we have such a place attached to this Group?

... and what about a Hero Database? Do we have any place to feature
our favorite Hero creations? A few strange women introduced
themselves to me this morning - Thirteen Moons and Lost Daughter -
and they both wanted to know if, after I created them, they could
find a place other than my hard drive to call home. I thought
posting the question would be good.

So, there it is: my eaarly morning post for the first Sunday in
Feburary.



- Hades





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Everway-L@yahoogroups.com, Paul Andrew King <paul@m...> wrote:
>
> Some stuff is up at the Everweb (of course) and more at Arcana on
> Gaslight's site (The Family Legends Project, for instance, is all
> fiction).
>
> I've put some more of my writing up on my own page:
> http://www.morat.demon.co.uk/Everway/
---
---
---

Thanks P.A.K. And, BTW, the Fragrant Path is really creative and
interesting. I have a question, though. What if I have an Emotional
Essence vial filled with RAGE (the corresponding emotion being
intense and overpowering anger): Will using this give me a temporary
bonus to my Fire element while in battle? Or can memories also grant
certain, limited abilities? For example, if I use a Memory Essence
of a Scar Clan warrior who was adept at spear throwing (as most of
them are), can I then hurl a spear with improved results? The reason
I ask is because, if memory is how we learn physical skills, then a
false memory could possibly give me a temporary proficiency in
something that I never really knew how to do before using the
Essence. Another example: if I, right now, had a Memory Essence of
piloting a F-14 fighter plane, then I assume that I would be able to
at least get into one, fire it up, and take off. Granted, the motor
skills that are really needed to fly the plane would be missing but
I would "remember" how to operate some of the most basic functions.

Just a thought...

Either way, its a really great Magic. Can I ask what inspired it?

--- In Everway-L@yahoogroups.com, "John Gatehouse"
<johnagatehouse@b...> wrote:
> I've got 10 heroes on my site and more than happy to put other
peoples
> heroes up there.
---
---
---

You have some really interesting Heroes on your site. Makes me feel
a little humiliated considering my most creative Heroes have still
always just been humans ... or anthropomorphic animal-human hybrids.
A cyclops? A minotaur? A spirit? That's really creative. I would
love to see some pictures of these characters.

Indeed, if there is room for my humble creations, I would like to
send you a few of my own Spherewalkers.

>
>
>Thanks P.A.K. And, BTW, the Fragrant Path is really creative and
>interesting. I have a question, though. What if I have an Emotional
>Essence vial filled with RAGE (the corresponding emotion being
>intense and overpowering anger): Will using this give me a temporary
>bonus to my Fire element while in battle?

Well if you use it, use it as seems best to you. I'll give the
answers I would use but if you want to make things different then I
certainly wouldn't object.

Personally I'd say that it would add no more than being really,
really angry would.  It'd be an edge - but not usually enough for a
full point difference.

(But that does raise an interesting idea - this magic might be a good
way to control Berserkers, turning them "on" and "off" relatively
easily).


>Or can memories also grant
>certain, limited abilities? For example, if I use a Memory Essence
>of a Scar Clan warrior who was adept at spear throwing (as most of
>them are), can I then hurl a spear with improved results?

As you say below, a lot of physical skills are about "muscle memory"
- training the reflexes which would, I think be rather difficult to
manage with this magic.
So maybe a small bonus - especially if you took time to aim.

>  The reason
>I ask is because, if memory is how we learn physical skills, then a
>false memory could possibly give me a temporary proficiency in
>something that I never really knew how to do before using the
>Essence. Another example: if I, right now, had a Memory Essence of
>piloting a F-14 fighter plane, then I assume that I would be able to
>at least get into one, fire it up, and take off. Granted, the motor
>skills that are really needed to fly the plane would be missing but
>I would "remember" how to operate some of the most basic functions.  problem

Yes, I'd say that routine flight would not be a problem - anything
demanding would be a different matter, though.

>
>Just a thought...
>
>Either way, its a really great Magic. Can I ask what inspired it?

Well it's been a while since I wrote it. so forgive me if my memories
are a little vague.  As I remember I was trying to go for a different
tack on Air Magic - and in this case letting it handle effects which
appear more related to Water.  It was designed more for "colour" and
for NPC use.
--
--
"The T'ang emperors were strong believers in the pills of
immortality.  More emperors died of poisoning from ingesting minerals
in the T'ang than in any other dynasty" - Eva Wong _The Shambhala
Guide to Taoism_

Paul K.

--- In Everway-L@yahoogroups.com, "John Gatehouse"
<johnagatehouse@b...> wrote:
> I've got 10 heroes on my site and more than happy to put other
peoples
> heroes up there.
---
---
---
Hey, I just looked at your site again - looked at all of the Heroes -
  and i see you DO have pictures on some of them. Again - really
creative material, here.

Made me start thinking about non-human Heroes. How do the humans in
your Everway campaign react to non-humans? Do you have tons of non-
humans populating your campaign or are they only used for special
circumstances, like Heroes or really unique NPC's?

I can't claim credit for the pictures, with the exception of the Grishnok,
but thanks.



The ones up are all ones I played as.  Some of them, like the Cyclops I
played as understanding of humans and very human like if with a different
set of priorities, but others like Soaring Paw had never met or seen a human
until leaving her world, so was probably more wary of humans than they were
of her.  The Grashnok was just plain unfathomable, having a completely
different view of the length of time and the way things worked.  Spending a
year watching water rippling in the wind was not unknown (though of course
out of game).



When my players want to be non-human I make sure that before hand they map
out their behaviour.  If they behave human-like that's fine, but otherwise
what's their prime motivation?  I make sure that we have a core defined way
in which they see the world, and then the player can use that to dictate
their actions, for other human's reactions to them it depends on where they
come from.



In general I don't stick with the looks similar and acts different and looks
different and acts similar style.  In a single story I may have a
representative of a race playing an important role and a whole race of
beings taking a minor role.  I do like to include non-humans, but it can be
much more poignant to have the odd one than to have many.



John G

'"Can a magician kill a man by magic?" Lord Wellington asked Strange.
Strange frowned. He seemed to dislike the question. "I suppose a magician
might," he admitted, "but a gentleman never could."

From 'Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell' by Susanna Clarke





   _____

From: hades3030 [mailto:hades3030@...]
Sent: 07 February 2005 16:52
To: Everway-L@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Everway-L] Re: Everway Novelizations, Fiction, and Hero Database




--- In Everway-L@yahoogroups.com, "John Gatehouse"
<johnagatehouse@b...> wrote:
> I've got 10 heroes on my site and more than happy to put other
peoples
> heroes up there.
---
---
---
Hey, I just looked at your site again - looked at all of the Heroes -
and i see you DO have pictures on some of them. Again - really
creative material, here.

Made me start thinking about non-human Heroes. How do the humans in
your Everway campaign react to non-humans? Do you have tons of non-
humans populating your campaign or are they only used for special
circumstances, like Heroes or really unique NPC's?





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> In general I don't stick with the looks similar and acts different
and looks
> different and acts similar style.  In a single story I may have a
> representative of a race playing an important role and a whole
race of
> beings taking a minor role.  I do like to include non-humans, but
it can be
> much more poignant to have the odd one than to have many.
---
---
---

Strangely enough, I have usually had players who wanted to be
human...or at least more human-like than anything else. Although, in
retrospect, it makes sense to have a ton of non-humans as a natural
part of the game considering the whole Multiverse setting and theme.

I guess my anthropomorphistic tendencies come through, even in my
gaming experience. Seriously, though, I have never really enjoyed
playing non-human's, unless it was a Sci-Fi game like Star Frontiers
or Star Wars.

Thanks for the feedback, though. Solid stuff.

hades3030 writes:
>I guess my anthropomorphistic tendencies come through, even in my
>gaming experience. Seriously, though, I have never really enjoyed
>playing non-human's, unless it was a Sci-Fi game like Star Frontiers
>or Star Wars.

With me, it varies over the map, but because I'll often try to find
novel interpreations for my vision cards.  "See that woman holding a
card with a phantasmal dragon coming out out of it?  I'm the dragon".
"See the woman being menaced by a shadow, and on a different card, a
woman looking at her hand turning black?  I'm the shadow".  "See the
little girl being menaced by a giant snake on a tree?  I'm the girl."

Which is why, frex, in JoT's Origins game, I played a shapeshifting
shadow creature who despirately wanted to be human, in one of Kat's
games, I played a dragon-shaped shapeshifter who's origin involved
being summoned/created by a mage, and why one of my favorite
continuing characters is Manifold, a little girl who has, or once had
a golden ring which once was a giant, and very slavering snake (and
might be such again, I suppose).

--
        Joshua Kronengold (mneme@(io.com, labcats.org))  |\      _,,,--,,_  ,)
--^-- "Get your mind right and you can make a stick    /,`.-'`'   -,  ;-;;'
   /\\  your wand and the sky your hat and a puddle     |,4-  ) )-,_ ) /\
/-\\\  your magic..." -- Granny Weatherwax            '---''(_/--' (_/-'

> With me, it varies over the map, but because I'll often try to find
> novel interpreations for my vision cards.
---
---
---

Well, I also have to consider that most of my gaming exp. has
featured me as the Storyteller/GM/DM and my players have wanted to
be human, so the world became focused on humans/humanoids.

I guess I have responded more to player demand than anything else.,

> With me, it varies over the map, but because I'll often try to find
> novel interpreations for my vision cards.
---
---
---

Well, I also have to consider that most of my gaming exp. has
featured me as the Storyteller/GM/DM and my players have wanted to
be human, so the world became focused on humans/humanoids.

I guess I have responded more to player demand than anything else.,

Folken:



How do you find players for EVERWAY? Other than myself, Aeravan (YOU
ROCK! YOU ROCK!), and my GF, I can't find anyone to play EVERWAY
here in Philly! Is there a secret message board or website out
there? Is there some secret code or handshake that I need to know?

Any suggestions?


- Hades

I have the same problems here, but I often find that the reason it's hard to
get players is due to the lack of a well-detailed setting. I really don't
like the game feel the boxed set gives, and I would kill to have someone
remake the main setting with a feel more than "generic fantasy." The ruleset
is wonderful, but the setting lacks, and for my players, the setting is what
gets them excited about the game. I have to really work to detail the
setting and give it more of a Planescape feel--that seems to be what does it
for my group.

Alec Fleschner

>From: "hades3030" <hades3030@...>
>Reply-To: Everway-L@yahoogroups.com
>To: Everway-L@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Everway-L] FINDING PLAYERS...A DILEMMA
>Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:25:59 -0000
>
>
>Folken:
>
>
>
>How do you find players for EVERWAY? Other than myself, Aeravan (YOU
>ROCK! YOU ROCK!), and my GF, I can't find anyone to play EVERWAY
>here in Philly! Is there a secret message board or website out
>there? Is there some secret code or handshake that I need to know?
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>
>- Hades
>
>
>

I find players by throwing large stacks of Vision cards on a table.
Of course, that only works in conventions.  I have found that one of
two things puts people off at first.  First is the lack of a setting
Alec mentions.  Second is the perception of many people that Everway
is some sort of fru-fru new age game.

The second is easy to combat.  The first is harder.  But I have a
solution I've been pondering for a while.  Let's MAKE a setting!

Between those on this list we can come up with enough for a single
coherent setting.  Let's organize a world building team.  We could
decide on what sorts of things are needed (maps, histories, names,
cultural detail, known groups, whatever), then each person who wants
to help would receive one or two areas in which to design something.

The project would be open to anyone provided all participants
acknowledge that the project would be freely distributed to the group
as a whole.

I'd certainly be willing to contribute.  What about you guys?

A Thousand Times,

LT

--- In Everway-L@yahoogroups.com, "Alec Fleschner" <uberfunk@h...>
wrote:
> I have the same problems here, but I often find that the reason
it's hard to
> get players is due to the lack of a well-detailed setting. I really
don't
> like the game feel the boxed set gives, and I would kill to have
someone
> remake the main setting with a feel more than "generic fantasy."
The ruleset
> is wonderful, but the setting lacks, and for my players, the
setting is what
> gets them excited about the game. I have to really work to detail
the
> setting and give it more of a Planescape feel--that seems to be
what does it
> for my group.
>
> Alec Fleschner
>
> >From: "hades3030" <hades3030@y...>
> >Reply-To: Everway-L@yahoogroups.com
> >To: Everway-L@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [Everway-L] FINDING PLAYERS...A DILEMMA
> >Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:25:59 -0000
> >
> >
> >Folken:
> >
> >
> >
> >How do you find players for EVERWAY? Other than myself, Aeravan
(YOU
> >ROCK! YOU ROCK!), and my GF, I can't find anyone to play EVERWAY
> >here in Philly! Is there a secret message board or website out
> >there? Is there some secret code or handshake that I need to know?
> >
> >Any suggestions?
> >
> >
> >- Hades
> >
> >
> >

I'm willing to contribute, although I'm not all that sure what my
available time will have to say about that.  In any case, I'm more
than willing to give it a shot.


Ricardo J. Méndez
http://ricardo.strangevistas.net/


On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:58:27 -0000, longspeak@...
<longspeak@...> wrote:
>
>
> I find players by throwing large stacks of Vision cards on a table.
> Of course, that only works in conventions.  I have found that one of
> two things puts people off at first.  First is the lack of a setting
> Alec mentions.  Second is the perception of many people that Everway
> is some sort of fru-fru new age game.
>
> The second is easy to combat.  The first is harder.  But I have a
> solution I've been pondering for a while.  Let's MAKE a setting!
>
> Between those on this list we can come up with enough for a single
> coherent setting.  Let's organize a world building team.  We could
> decide on what sorts of things are needed (maps, histories, names,
> cultural detail, known groups, whatever), then each person who wants
> to help would receive one or two areas in which to design something.
>
> The project would be open to anyone provided all participants
> acknowledge that the project would be freely distributed to the group
> as a whole.
>
> I'd certainly be willing to contribute.  What about you guys?
>
> A Thousand Times,
>
> LT
>
> --- In Everway-L@yahoogroups.com, "Alec Fleschner" <uberfunk@h...>
> wrote:
> > I have the same problems here, but I often find that the reason
> it's hard to
> > get players is due to the lack of a well-detailed setting. I really
> don't
> > like the game feel the boxed set gives, and I would kill to have
> someone
> > remake the main setting with a feel more than "generic fantasy."
> The ruleset
> > is wonderful, but the setting lacks, and for my players, the
> setting is what
> > gets them excited about the game. I have to really work to detail
> the
> > setting and give it more of a Planescape feel--that seems to be
> what does it
> > for my group.
> >
> > Alec Fleschner
> >
> > >From: "hades3030" <hades3030@y...>
> > >Reply-To: Everway-L@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: Everway-L@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [Everway-L] FINDING PLAYERS...A DILEMMA
> > >Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:25:59 -0000
> > >
> > >
> > >Folken:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >How do you find players for EVERWAY? Other than myself, Aeravan
> (YOU
> > >ROCK! YOU ROCK!), and my GF, I can't find anyone to play EVERWAY
> > >here in Philly! Is there a secret message board or website out
> > >there? Is there some secret code or handshake that I need to know?
> > >
> > >Any suggestions?
> > >
> > >
> > >- Hades
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>


--

>I really don't
>like the game feel the boxed set gives, and I would kill to have someone
>remake the main setting with a feel more than "generic fantasy." The ruleset
>is wonderful, but the setting lacks, and for my players, the setting is what
>gets them excited about the game.

Well the feeling I got was more mythic (with a touch of fairy tale)
than "generic fantasy".  Do try to get hold of Spherewalker if you
can for a whole lot of background.  It isn't your standard setting
book but it is a collection of history, legend and creatures that can
be found across the Spheres.
--
--
"The T'ang emperors were strong believers in the pills of
immortality.  More emperors died of poisoning from ingesting minerals
in the T'ang than in any other dynasty" - Eva Wong _The Shambhala
Guide to Taoism_

Paul K.

I'd be willing to help, but at the same time, I know that the Breakwater
Wiki got pretty heated when it came to language and the Tongue. For me, it
sounds silly to name everything like a descriptor and not make up words,
even if the concept of the Tongue is supposed to be more universal. Right
there, there are others on the list that would disagree with my
interpretation of the setting, and often things such as sames are key to how
people view the setting. I'm not saying that such a project wouldn't be
worthwhile, but to do this as a group without an editor who can says what
stays and goes would be a very difficult task.

Alec Fleschner

I've had Spherewalker for a while, and I still don't get that feel. I love
Spherewalker, don't get me wrong, and it does a lot of make the Everway
setting interesting, but I want high fantasy, where you interact with
fantastical things on a regular basis. There's too much focus on being human
in Everway, and that's something I always want to move away from.

Alec Fleschner

>From: Paul Andrew King <paul@...>
>Reply-To: Everway-L@yahoogroups.com
>To: Everway-L@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Everway-L] Background (was FINDING PLAYERS...A DILEMMA)
>Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:42:54 +0000
>
> >I really don't
> >like the game feel the boxed set gives, and I would kill to have someone
> >remake the main setting with a feel more than "generic fantasy." The
>ruleset
> >is wonderful, but the setting lacks, and for my players, the setting is
>what
> >gets them excited about the game.
>
>Well the feeling I got was more mythic (with a touch of fairy tale)
>than "generic fantasy".  Do try to get hold of Spherewalker if you
>can for a whole lot of background.  It isn't your standard setting
>book but it is a collection of history, legend and creatures that can
>be found across the Spheres.
>--
>--
>"The T'ang emperors were strong believers in the pills of
>immortality.  More emperors died of poisoning from ingesting minerals
>in the T'ang than in any other dynasty" - Eva Wong _The Shambhala
>Guide to Taoism_
>
>Paul K.

--- In Everway-L@yahoogroups.com, "Alec Fleschner" <uberfunk@h...>
wrote:
> I'd be willing to help, but at the same time, I know that the
Breakwater
> Wiki got pretty heated when it came to language and the Tongue. For
me, it
> sounds silly to name everything like a descriptor and not make up
words,
> even if the concept of the Tongue is supposed to be more universal.
Right
> there, there are others on the list that would disagree with my
> interpretation of the setting, and often things such as sames are
key to how
> people view the setting. I'm not saying that such a project
wouldn't be
> worthwhile, but to do this as a group without an editor who can
says what
> stays and goes would be a very difficult task.
>
> Alec Fleschner

Well, of course we'd have an editor.  Something like this would
rapidly devolve without someone like that.  But we'd also have to
have an agreement on such things as naming conventions, humans vs.
non-humans, and other items that are Everway Standard but that some
people don't always like to see.  We'd definitely have to be
consistent.  The editor would then have to apply these standards
fairly.

I'm brash and overconfident enough to suggest that I can do the job.
I have *some* free time between work, conventions, family and my own
game.

I'm going to ask this next question right now.  Do we work on a
setting right here, or do we make a new group for the purpose?  I'd
go either way, as long as the finished product was made available to
those on this list whether they contribute or not.

And either way, I think everyone on this list can contribute ideas
and inspiration.  So speak up.

A Thousand Times,

LT

But we'd also have to
>have an agreement on such things as naming conventions, humans vs.
>non-humans, and other items that are Everway Standard but that some
>people don't always like to see.

Interesting choice of words. In my case, it's not that I don't "like to see"
parts of the setting, but that I think it's a poor setting.

Alec Fleschner

>I've had Spherewalker for a while, and I still don't get that feel. I love
>Spherewalker, don't get me wrong, and it does a lot of make the Everway
>setting interesting, but I want high fantasy, where you interact with
>fantastical things on a regular basis. There's too much focus on being human
>in Everway, and that's something I always want to move away from.

Well, I'd point out that the protagonists of myth and fairy tale are
typically human (more or less).  And while you can have a player
character with neither supernatural Powers, nor Magic nor even one
superhuman Element score it isn't that common in my experience.  So I
don't see how you can escape interacting with the fantastic - most
player characters qualify.  Come to that the first two characters I
generated were a Dragon (cursed into human form, and not knowing what
he was, granted - but not truly human) and the son of a Goddess.

BTW the term "High Fantasy" usually refers to Tolkien and his
imitators.  Everway makes me think more of Jason and the Argonauts or
Patricia McKillip.
--
--
"The T'ang emperors were strong believers in the pills of
immortality.  More emperors died of poisoning from ingesting minerals
in the T'ang than in any other dynasty" - Eva Wong _The Shambhala
Guide to Taoism_

Paul K.

--- In Everway-L@yahoogroups.com, longspeak@c... wrote:
> Well, of course we'd have an editor.  Something like this would
> rapidly devolve without someone like that.  But we'd also have to
> have an agreement on such things as naming conventions, humans vs.
> non-humans, and other items that are Everway Standard but that some
> people don't always like to see.  We'd definitely have to be
> consistent.  The editor would then have to apply these standards
> fairly.
>
> I'm brash and overconfident enough to suggest that I can do the
job.
> I have *some* free time between work, conventions, family and my
own
> game.
>

I'd love to participate, and if someone stood up as editor, that
would be all the better. I had a similar idea (making a setting) and
I started posting some sphere / domain contributions to the list.
Then, I put them on my website ... finally, moving them into the
wiki. The Breakwater Lexicon Game was another attempt (albeit, not
mine) to add valuable setting information to the game. In my opinion,
it is imperfect, but quite amazing. Nearly 200 pages were added and
the Sphere of Breakwater is (now) one of the most complete Everway
settings described anywhere.

The good thing about a Lexicon Game, is the unexpected input from
different writers, and the freedom they have to add their own flavour
and unique viewpoints to the collected work. There are a couple of
negatives, though. A Lexicon Game lacks clear leadership, unless it's
understood from the beginning that the person who calls the game also
acts as final arbiter. Not everyone was able to commit to the full
writing schedule, and not every topic that was created was
interesting enough to excite the authors. On the other hand, a lot
of "little" topics got covered (like specific flowering plants, or
the history of a single sea) that would probably have been left out
of a more organized suppliment.

This may sound crazy, but I suggest the following form for another
effort in collective writing.

Step One: Gather a Steering Committee.

Step Two: Steering Committee decides general topic, and tries to head
off potential conflict - documenting the rules and guidlines.

Step Three: The Steering Committee generates a list of topics to be
covered by the suppliment, and accepts input from the whole community
to complete the list.

Step Four: The Steering Committee recruits authors willing to write
on the specific topics that have already been generated. [There's
probably room for interstitial articles or sidebars, that fall
outside the official topics, don't conflict with the direction
chosen, and give those with limited time ability to contribute.]

Step Five: The authors submit articles, working with the editor(s) to
resolve inter-article consistancy.

Step Six: The Steering Committee uses the information submitted to
find "holes" or new areas needing exploration, and returns to Step
Three; until satisfied.

Step Seven: Profit! [OK, I'm just kidding. This is my South Park
reference of the week.]

I think the most important aspect of every step above is a specific
deadline. For example, community input is limited to 14 days; each
article should be completed within 7 days; etc. Flexibility is good,
some structure is needed.

Maybe I'm making too much of it, and the whole "Steering Committee"
is just one person. I still suspect that it should be at least three
(3) and up to five (5). Further, if the project is especially large,
then perhaps more then one editor will be needed. Two? Certainly not
more then three!

> I'm going to ask this next question right now.  Do we work on a
> setting right here, or do we make a new group for the purpose?  I'd
> go either way, as long as the finished product was made available
to
> those on this list whether they contribute or not.
>
> And either way, I think everyone on this list can contribute ideas
> and inspiration.  So speak up.
>
> A Thousand Times,
>
> LT


You are, of course, welcome to use the wiki. Since all of the pages
can be edited, at will, it's a good place to work on the material.
The final edition can be saved or moved somewhere more permanent (I'd
help convert everything into standard HTML when the time comes.)

Well, that's my 2.5 cents.

~runester~