I just joined this group, and was reading through the archives. It's ice to know
that this group exists. I hope to get to know you guys better. My Aim name is
Shadofellow and I have a moon mage named xaiven. The last post in this group was
a month or more ago so I hope we can get it active again.

God made Adam out of the dust,
But thought it best to make me first;
So I was made before the man,
According to God's Holy plan
My whole body God made complete,
Without arms or hands or feet.
My ways and acts did God control,
But in my body he placed no soul.

A living being I became,
And Adam gave to me a name.
Then from his presence I withdrew,
For this man Adam I never knew.

All my Maker's laws I do obey,
And from these laws I never stray.
Thousands of me go in fear,
But seldom on the earth appear.
Later, for a purpose God did see,
He placed a living soul in me.
But that soul of mine God had to claim,
And from me took it back again.
And when this soul from me had fled,
I was the same as when first made;
Without arms, legs, feet, or soul,
I travel on from pole to pole.

My labors are from day to night,
And to men I once furnished light.
Thousands of people young and old,
Did by my death bright lights behold.
No right or wrong can I conceive;
The Bible and its teachings I can't believe.
The fear of death doesn't trouble me;
Pure happiness I will never see.
And up in Heaven I can never go,
Nor in the grave or Hell below.
So get your Bible and read with care;
You'll find my name recorded there.

This puzzle was written by a lady in California in 1890 in response
a gentleman in Philadelphia, who said that he would pay $241,000.00 to anyone
who could write a puzzle that he could not solve.  He failed to do so,and
paid the lady $241,000.00 (a great sum of money at that time).  The answer is
one word, five letters long, and appears only four times in the King James
version of the Bible.  An eight-year-old boy figured out the  puzzle.  Can
you?

Good hunting, friends!  :-) Paleth

Hmm don't know if there are any of those on here..but when are all of
us going to meet?  We have to start dominating Dragonrealms for the
Lord ;).  Paleth and I already have secondary characters who will be
our angels in disguise to be revealed when they are notably strong.
hehe

Ozarrah

--- Ray Metz <raymetz100@...> wrote:
> From: Ray Metz <raymetz100@...>
>
> Is it also true that there no Mormons, Witnesses,
> Adventests, scientists,
> or catholics on this list?  I thought I'd leave out
> the Koreshes and the
> Applewoods ;)
>
> Sombody slap me!
>
> Sir Rayj
>
> --- ChldLikFth@... wrote:
> > From: ChldLikFth@...
> >
> > How many of us are paladins?  and what other
> guilds are represented?  I
> > know
> > Ozzie and I are pallys...silly ones at that...
> >
> > Arikana
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
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> ">Click Here</a>
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> >
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Is it also true that there no Mormons, Witnesses, Adventests, scientists,
or catholics on this list?  I thought I'd leave out the Koreshes and the
Applewoods ;)

Sombody slap me!

Sir Rayj

--- ChldLikFth@... wrote:
> From: ChldLikFth@...
>
> How many of us are paladins?  and what other guilds are represented?  I
> know
> Ozzie and I are pallys...silly ones at that...
>
> Arikana
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
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I'm a Paladin too.  Seems that mabee christian type folks are also DR
paladin type folks.

Sir Rayj

--- ChldLikFth@... wrote:
> From: ChldLikFth@...
>
> How many of us are paladins?  and what other guilds are represented?  I
> know
> Ozzie and I are pallys...silly ones at that...
>
> Arikana
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Announcing the ONElist Hawaiian Sweepstakes!
> Enter to win a trip for two to Hawaii!  Click here:
> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/hawaii3 ">Click Here</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

How many of us are paladins?  and what other guilds are represented?  I know
Ozzie and I are pallys...silly ones at that...

Arikana

I have to agree Ozzie Rox!

Very well stated and I have to agree full-heartedly. Hats off to Ozarrah. ;)


-Paleth

WoW that story rox!  Thanks for sending it dood!

A wealthy man and his son loved to collect rare works of
art. They had everything in their collection, from Picasso
to Raphael. They would often sit together and
admire the great works of art.

When the Viet Nam conflict broke out, the son
went to war. He was very courageous and died in
battle while rescuing another soldier. The father was
notified and grieved deeply for his only son.

About a month later, just before Christmas, there was
a knock at the door. A young man stood at the door with a
large package in his hands. He said, "Sir, you don't know
me, but I am the soldier for whom your son gave his life.
He saved many lives that day, and he was carrying me
to safety when a bullet struck him in the heart and
he died instantly. He often talked about you, and your
love for art. The young man held out his package. "I
know this isn't much. I'm not really a great artist, but I
think your son would have wanted you to have this."

The father opened the package. It was a portrait of
his son, painted by the young man. He stared in
awe at the way the soldier had captured the
personality of his son in the painting. The father was so
drawn to the eyes that his own eyes welled up with
tears. He thanked the young man and offered to
pay him for the picture. "Oh, no sir, I could never
repay what your son did for me. It's a gift."

The father hung the portrait over his mantle.
Every time visitors came to his home he took them to
see the portrait of his son before he showed them any
of the other great works he had collected.

The man died a few months later. There was to
be a great auction of his paintings. Many influential
people gathered, excited paintings and having an

opportunity to purchase one for their collection. On the
platform sat the painting of the son. The auctioneer
pounded his gavel. "We will start the bidding
with this picture of the son. Who will bid for this
picture?" There was silence. Then a voice in the back of
the room shouted. "We want to see the famous
paintings. Skip this one." But the auctioneer persisted.
"Will someone bid for this painting? Who will start the
bidding? $100, $200?" Another voice shouted
angrily. "We didn't come to see this painting. We came
to see the Van Goghs, the Rembrandts. Get on with the
real bids!" But still the auctioneer continued. "The
son! The son! Who'll take the son?"

Finally, a voice came from the very back of the room.
It was the longtime gardener of the man and his
son. "I'll give $10 for the painting." Being a poor man, it was all
he could afford. "We have $10, who will bid $20?" "Give it to him for
$10. Let's see the masters." "$10 is the bid, won't someone bid $20?" The
crowd was becoming angry. They didn't want the picture of the son.
They wanted the more worthy investments for their collections. The
auctioneer pounded the gavel. "Going once, twice, SOLD for $10!"

A man sitting on the second row shouted. "Now let's get on with the
collection!" The auctioneer laid down his gavel. "I'm sorry, the
auction is over." "What about the paintings?" "I am sorry.
When I was called to conduct this auction, I was told of a
secret stipulation in the will. I was not allowed to reveal
that stipulation until this time. Only the painting of
the son would be auctioned. Whoever bought that
painting would inherit the entire estate, including the
paintings. The man who took the son gets every thing!"

God gave His son 2,000 years ago to die on a cruel cross.
Much like the auctioneer, His message today is, "The Son,
the Son, who'll take the Son?" Because, you see, whoever
takes the Son gets everything.
-author unknown

Thought this was a nice story...
Sir Devander

Well, I the only one I really did much looking into, because they kept
knocking on my door and I knew nothing of their beliefs, were the Mormons.
They do start out on the right foot with the Bible, the same one we use,
however they do stray off, much like the Christian Science Church, by adding
another book and making it equal with the Bible. In their case, The Book of
Mormon. Of course if you every read this book you will find it pretty much a
complete duplicate of the New Testament, in a different time period and with
different disciples. The one thing that I ask now when they come knocking at
my door is based on The Book of Mormon. In it, just before Jesus returns to
Heaven, He give all the disciples basically one wish. Two of them wish to
live to see Christ's return to earth. So all I want to know is, where are
these two almost 2000 year old people? Well, they always say they will send
out an elder to answer me, which they never do, but that doesn't bother me as
much as the fact that they can't answer my question on their own beliefs.
That's about all I got to say on the Mormons.
As for Catholics, they are a good Christian church that is just a bit off
course. If they stop praying to Mary and Saints, then they would be fine. I
feel that by praying to Mary and the Saints, they are putting them on the
same level as God. Only God can answer prayers and only God should be
worshiped with prayer. He may use Mary or the Saints to answer your prayer,
but that is His decision, not ours.
Well, there's my 2 cents for you.

Sir Devander

I think this is a very good question, actually.  Lately I have done a
lot of studying concerning this topic, defining cults, how the
witnesses and the mormons came to be, etc.  Excuse me if this is
offensive to anyone, because offending people is not my goal in
answering such an inquiry.  I base my claims off of what the Bible
seems to say a Christian is, and I would gladly discuss this further if
anyone wishes, because I can say now that I will be answering from the
top of my head, and not from the resources of an actual bible in my
hands, or the actual doctrine of mormons, or whatever you want to call
concrete evidence.
At my University I am taking a course on the book of revelation.  To
begin we read a book called "The Last Days are Here Again,"  which goes
through history and discusses all the many different concepts of when
and how the end times would occur.  Personally, I found the reading to
be very disconcerting at times, considering people would make such
outrageous claims (as the book cited) in the name of Christ.  The book
also reported on several different "fringe groups," or religious groups
who took Christianity and twisted it a bit to their liking.  Among
these fringe groups I found most interest in the Jehovah's Witnesses,
Mormons, and the Seventh-day Adventists.  Combining what I already knew
of the groups with what i learned from the reading, I came to the
conclusion that, with basic Christian values in mind, that the 3 groups
cannot truly be considered "Christians."
This acclaimation is based greatly around the concept that faith in
Christ is what saves us, as we see Paul emphasize again and again in
several of his Epistles.
Jehovah Witnesses, for example, hold a belief that as 'Christians' one
must obey both the words of Christ and the old testament law.  In
reading the words of Christ and the following books of the New
Testament, we can determine that this concept is truly absurd.  The
only law we must abide by as Christians is the law of Christ, belief in
him as to who he said he was and what he would do if we put our trust
in him.  Of course, Christ did reemphasize some of the 'laws' of the
old decree, but as he restated them, he also "fulfilled" them, giving
us the meaning of their being when followed in love of God and his
people.
Aside from the idea that Witnesses are not Christians because they do
not let faith in Christ do the saving (but rather keeping to the 'law'
and commandments), they do not accept Christ as deity nor do they
accept the idea of the trinity, in which God is 3 persons in one.  The
idea that God would save us through something other than Himself, a
mere man made not begotten, is in contrast with the very essense of the
soul saving Christian doctrine.
Mormons, along with Jehovah's Witnesses, look to other sources for
salvation instead of the saving power of faith in Christ.  Believing
that they're founding father received golden tablets from God (tablets
that cannot be found), they consider these tablets equal to Scripture
in inspired validity, and they see the current leader of the church
equal to Christ in holiness and authority.  Equating a man to Christ
(ergo to God himself) is, again, greatly in contrast with basic
Christian concepts of deity and salvation.  If what they believe is
true, then why doesn't the man in charge of the mormons 'save' people
as Christ is believed to do?  Why don't the worshipping mormons worship
the man who leads them alongside worship with God?
Seventh-day Adventists go right alongside the previous two religions.
Breaking off from the millienial group of Millerites in the nineteenth
century, they came to believe that Christ did not return at the
predicted time (Oct 22 of I think 1865) because the Christians of the
world had been disobediant in not remembering the old testament law in
their servanthood to God, especially worshipping on the Sabbath day
(saturday).  Again we see that people put works of an outdated law
ahead of a faith in Christ alone that is all-encompassing and
all-preserving.  In the Gospels, when Christ is reiterating what people
should do to live a godly life, the Lord states nine out of the ten
commandments.  The one he leaves out is worshipping and resting on the
sabbath.  Jesus is seen numerous times doing things on the sabbath day
that Jews of the time would not dare to do on the holy day.  This
demonstrates Christ's knowledge of what was to come after he was
resurrected to glory.  Being raised on Sunday, and the Holy Spirit
annoiting the believers on a sunday on the day of pentecost, Christians
began the tradition of setting aside Sunday to worship the Lord
(properly terming it "The Lord's day".  We see this in acts and also
referred to in 1 corinthians).  However, Christians are not called to
rest all day on Sunday as the Jews were to called to do on Saturday.
As Christians our focus is to spread the word of God to all nations and
peoples, and it is imperitive we do not waste time resting on
particular days.

Unfortunately, I cannot comment at this time on Catholicism.  Being
raised a Catholic you would think I would know more about it than I do
about these others, but alas I don't.  Once I truly accepted Christ
into my heart, I admit I did not find the spiritual food I needed at
the catholic church I attended, so in turn I eventually broke away from
that sect of the church.  I am not saying that all catholic churches
are dead in the Spirit, and I do not know enough of their doctrine to
comment with confidence on it.  Give me some time.

To answer the original question, a Christian is a person who has found
their sole hope and guidance in keeping faith in his saving power and
living the life he instructed us to live (this life does not include
the old law, following false scripture, or equating ourselves with
God).  Please fogive me for not having the scripural evidence to back
up everything I am saying about the doctrine of Christianity.  I do not
have my bible at my side and I am not a good Christian and have not
memorized all the verses I should.  However, I hope what i've written
has shedded some light on those of you who were wondering.  I am not
trying to exclude any particular person or group from something they
think they are in.  I am only determining what I have by comparing the
doctrines of these groups to the doctrine I find in the scripture
Christians believe as God-inspired.

Prays no one is cursing him
Derek
Ozarrah

--- Ray Metz <raymetz100@...> wrote:
> From: Ray Metz <raymetz100@...>
>
> I hope no one hates me for asking, but we don't get
> much action in this
> list and I thought this might generate some mail.
> Here goes:
>
> Are Catholics, Mormons, and Johova Witneses all
> Christians?  If David
> Koresh and Mr. Applewood handed out bibles with the
> word 'Jesus' in it,
> does that make them christians too?  What's a
> Christian?
>
> I'm an Independant Baptist and believe in this
> stuff,
> http://www.bbfi.org/beliefs.htm  In your opinion,
> does this make me a
> christian?
>
> That should give us somthing to chew on.  I hope to
> hear back from you
> all.
>
> Sir Rayj
>
> --- Andrew Loh <ALOH@...> wrote:
> > Dear fellow christian dragonrealmers, I'm starting
> a limited giveaway of
> > 5 gold kronars to people who respond and are on
> this list, please send
> > me an email so that we can set up a time to
> transfer the gold.
> >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
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> ----------------------------
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__________________________________________________
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Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

I hope no one hates me for asking, but we don't get much action in this
list and I thought this might generate some mail.  Here goes:

Are Catholics, Mormons, and Johova Witneses all Christians?  If David
Koresh and Mr. Applewood handed out bibles with the word 'Jesus' in it,
does that make them christians too?  What's a Christian?

I'm an Independant Baptist and believe in this stuff,
http://www.bbfi.org/beliefs.htm  In your opinion, does this make me a
christian?

That should give us somthing to chew on.  I hope to hear back from you
all.

Sir Rayj

--- Andrew Loh <ALOH@...> wrote:
> Dear fellow christian dragonrealmers, I'm starting a limited giveaway of
> 5 gold kronars to people who respond and are on this list, please send
> me an email so that we can set up a time to transfer the gold.
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

I'll check in too.  Don't worry bout the 5 gold.  I've been hanging out at
Dragon Spine Mtn. alot lately.  Trying to learn some evasion in my heavy
plate armor.

Sir Rayj

--- Andrew Loh <ALOH@...> wrote:
> Dear fellow christian dragonrealmers, I'm starting a limited giveaway of
> 5 gold kronars to people who respond and are on this list, please send
> me an email so that we can set up a time to transfer the gold.
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

hey sounds good to me : )

Arikana Khothorag : )

Hey what's up?  I'm a christian and was able to meet one cool fellow
due to this mailing list thing.  Worth it there.  Five gold would be
nice too, although i wouldn't care all so much about that in comparison
to just meeting some more believers who aren't so afraid to live the
life even in DR.

Ozarrah/derek

--- Andrew Loh <ALOH@...> wrote:
> Dear fellow christian dragonrealmers, I'm starting a
> limited giveaway of 5 gold kronars to people who
> respond and are on this list, please send me an
> email so that we can set up a time to transfer the
> gold.
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Dear fellow christian dragonrealmers, I'm starting a limited giveaway of 5 gold
kronars to people who respond and are on this list, please send me an email so
that we can set up a time to transfer the gold.

Ok here it is. ~Tues. the 27th at 10:30 CST~ we'll have a little get together
in the private dining hall in Taelbert's Inn.
Thats: go inn, south, go door

hope to see ya all there,
Paleth

Ok then lemme think... i play all the time but mostly late at night. I'm
pretty busy on weekends unless you all feel like meeting real real late.
Weeknights around 10-11 CST is cool. I guess lets try the 27th. Thats next
tuesday at 10:30 CST. Please lemme know if thats a bad time for you all.
Otherwise, lets meet in then. One thing though, do any of you have a home? If
so that would be nice to meet in.

Paleth

Ha, well, as the leader of a growing clan i've figured out that just
setting a date and time and hoping people will show up isn't very
effective always.  :) people are just too busy.  However, if anyone
would like to meet me at the pond in the crossing, saaaay...9:00
central time next tuesday, that would be good for me.  This isn't a
definate time of meeting or anything, it's just a suggestion to try and
get things initiated.  It is very important to me to meet the other
believers in the realms.

--- Ray Metz <raymetz100@...> wrote:
> From: Ray Metz <raymetz100@...>
>
> Yes, I'd be interested in meeting.  The fastest way
> may be to just pick a
> time/place and whoever makes it, makes it.
> ::shrugs::
>
> Sir Rayj
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Yes, I'd be interested in meeting.  The fastest way may be to just pick a
time/place and whoever makes it, makes it.  ::shrugs::

Sir Rayj

yeah that would rock!  I already know Ozarrah (he rox just so you know...too
bad he's celibate and I'm married IC...)  Anyways...um....well...nuttin' more
to say...so buhbye!

Arikana

yeah man, that would be great.  I'm usually cool with anytime after 9
central or so, sometimes I go out, but not often.  But write back and
let me know when you can meet.

Derek/Ozarrah

--- Paleth@... wrote:
> From: Paleth@...
>
> I was thinking, would people be interested in
> meeting in the game sometime
> for a lil semi OOC get together? that would be cool
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
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I was thinking, would people be interested in meeting in the game sometime
for a lil semi OOC get together? that would be cool

hey all whats up?  I'm Dame Arikana...looking for some cool Christian folks
to chat and hang with in DR.....give me a holler if ya wanna hang...

Arikana Khothofrag
of the Pasha Cabal

i guess so.  dont' really know what all you're referring to, but if
what you do biblical, then i guess there isn't much you can say against
it.  hehe.

Ozarrah/derek

--- Tannoi <Tannoi@...> wrote:
> From: Tannoi <Tannoi@...>
>
> Well, I've been a Christian for a long, long while,
> and not sure what
> other Christians would label me as.  I'm a bit off
> kilter.  But I'm
> satisfied with my heart and the status quo of my
> life so far, God works
> in mysterious ways, no?
>
> Forest/Nashreg
>
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Well, I've been a Christian for a long, long while, and not sure what
other Christians would label me as.  I'm a bit off kilter.  But I'm
satisfied with my heart and the status quo of my life so far, God works
in mysterious ways, no?

Forest/Nashreg

hey awesome.  I joined this list a while back too to try and find some
christian players.  I RP a couple of underground Christian characters,
Ozarrah a paladin and Rhema (who i haven't really started playing much)
a cleric.  I also have a thief named Clikatat, who isn't really the
most loving person if you're not a S'kra or a thief, but he still
places his faith in the Most High.  If there is anyway to get in touch
with you, please let me know.  It would be nice knowing that there is
another Christian out there keeping everything in perspective, even in
this very consuming almost reality game.  hehe.

God bless
Derek (Clikatat/Ozarrah/Rhema)

--- Paleth@... wrote:
> From: Paleth@...
>
> hi, i just joined this list in hopes of finding some
> such small organization
> within the DR community to discuss a christian's
> view of the game... i am a
> diehard christian.... yet.. i have been playing DR
> before i decided to
> surrender myself to christ.. this will explain why
> i'm a thief :)   i am
> probably in the top ten highest thieves in the game,
> this is probably why i
> am STILL a thief :)  well i hope to get email from
> some peoples
>
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hi, i just joined this list in hopes of finding some such small organization
within the DR community to discuss a christian's view of the game... i am a
diehard christian.... yet.. i have been playing DR before i decided to
surrender myself to christ.. this will explain why i'm a thief :)   i am
probably in the top ten highest thieves in the game, this is probably why i
am STILL a thief :)  well i hope to get email from some peoples

Hey, this is Ozarrah from the realms.  I just joined this little list
but I haven't received any posts yet.  I've been looking for Christians
in DR since I became one, but I have been someone unsuccessful.  I've
only met a few.  Heh, I even used to want to begin some sort of
underground Christian unit in Dragonrealms.  Not really anymore though,
but I'd still like to meet my siblings in Christ who share the same
fate along with me in this paganized make believe experience :).
Anyways, please respond with your DR names if you'd like.

Your servant
Ozarrah El-Shaddai
of the Paladin order
and the Pasha Cabal