‘Sniping’ continued...

“The Royal Marine Guard did not find their regulation uniform and equipment
all that could be desired  for …‘sniping’ work. They had already dyed
their white tunics khaki in a mixture of Condy’s Fluid and coffee, and now
found both helmet and cap ‘utterly useless’. (Field) Regulations also
suggested using potassium permanganate.'



M1895 Long Lee-Enfield rifles with short bayonet were issued to the RMLI in
1895. Martini-Henrys were also used by the Legation RMLI. Blumberg says it was
‘to save Lee-Metford ammunition.’ Other sources say the Martini-Henrys were
‘better’ for sniping, for example Hewlett says ‘There were excellent shots
amongst the Americans and the British, which enabled them to expend the minimum
amount of ammunition. For barricade work the old Martini-Henry with its heavy
bullet was much better than the new Lee-Metford and our marines often borrowed
it from the students for special work of this kind.’ Perhaps the older weapon
was also preferred by ‘old sweats’ more used to it.



Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David,  Hi, I was looking through my library and am trying to find my copy of
The Pathans by Olaf Caroe.  Did I lend it to you when you were working on your
Pathan Matrix for the Colonial games website?  I'm not accusing you of anything,
I'm merely trying to locate a book.  I tried the E-mail address I had for and
the E-mail came back as undeliverable.  If I did lend it to you could you please
send it back.  If not, please accept my apologies for any inference of neglect

John. S. Beardsley.

Sandy and John Beardsley JSBeardsley@...




To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
From: edgington52@...
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 16:23:32 +0000
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"







A quarter of a century earlier, and the US Army, not the Marines.  Cavalrymen on
Reno Hill, above the Li ttle Bighorn came under accurate fire from an Indian
sharpshooter on a neighboring hill.   Several of the company officers each
rounded up 2-3 of their best shots and set them to deal with the sharpshooter. 
Soon, the problem was solved, though whether because the Indian was killed,
wounded, or decided the locale was decidedly unhealthy, we don't know.  No
cavalry snipers/sharpshooters, per se; the officers just knew which of their men
were the best shots .  They probably also knew who was the fastest runner, the
strongest  , and who could spit the farthest, had any of these skills been
called for.   However, when they'd selected the Springfield carbine for the
cavalry several years earlier (BGen Alfred Terry, committee chairman, Major
Marcus Reno, cavalry representative!!), range had been a major consideration.

I don't know how the Marine rifle was selected, and to what degree high accuracy
at long range might have been a consideration in its selection.

David Edgington

----- Original Message -----

From: "Mike Blake" <mike.blakeuk@...>
To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 7:42:31 AM
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"



Mark

Tnx for this - Nicely put – this is my understanding too. Can you recall what
these ‘sniping’ duties (as we would call them now) were described as in the
reports? I am going through my notes to see if I recorded anything – I will look
at the copies of official reports and first hand accounts I have too.

Mike

From: Mark Horan
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 3:19 PM
To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"

So, the questions was:

1) Is this description of USMC Boxer era snipers accurate and were they
deployed to defend the legation during the siege? (I'll skip the Charlton
Heston jokes.)

The answer is ... there were no USMC "snipers" there or anywhere at the time,
nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized sniper
equipment or uniforms. There were some men noted for being better marksman than
others, but they certainly were neither dressed nor equipped differently that
any other USMC personnel.

I have all the USMC/USN reports from the siege and relief of legation complex in
Peking. All the USMC personnel there were members of the Marine detachments of
two USN warships ships. Each individual had different attributes and skills. A
select few were better marksman than others and eventually took on the role of
pinning down and terrorizing their Chinese foes with accurate shooting (by the
way, a couple of folks from the other nationalities their did this as well). A
couple (and I can look up their names but all by boxer files are at home) of the
USMC privates were given or adopted this role on a regular basis. ut they had
no special equipment and their role was not, at that point, an officially
recognized one.

Mark Horan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The "War of Northern Aggression"?
Did we have a war with Canada my teachers forgot to mention?
Who won? When was it? Somebody help me understand this...
                                    -E Traverso

"The wise man learns from the death of others..."

On May 5, 2012, at 8:24 AM, myron shipp <ronshippau@...> wrote:

> HI all
>
> I am very pleased that after much thought I have chosen not to rise to the
bait in this post about the "War of Northern aggression", I have decided to not
let it worry me.
>
> Cheers
> Myron.
>
> --- On Fri, 4/5/12, Mark Horan <mhoran@...> wrote:
>
> From: Mark Horan <mhoran@...>
> Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from
Peking"
> To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Friday, 4 May, 2012, 1:17 PM
>
>
>
> In response to ...
>
> "There were snipers in The American Civil War. The Union had sharpshooter
>
> regiments that were used as long range rifle units. They had scoped rifles and
>
> some of the regiments wore green uniforms"
>
> "anywhere at the time,"
>
> "nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized
sniper"
>
> "equipment or uniforms"
>
> I offer the following ...
>
> Not in the USMC, especially not on USN ship detachments and, for that matter,
in
>
> the USA - the concept of sniping, invented by US troops in the American
>
> Revolution, was officially done away with by the USA after the War of Northern
>
> Aggression ended in 1865 and was only reinstated, much against command's
better
>
> judgment, after the US entry into WWI, and training was significantly lacking
>
> until after the USA arrival in France. After WWI ended, the USA then
officially
>
> did away with snipers and sniping - only the USMC retained the concept. The
>
> USMC took it to heart, ultimately creating a Scout-Sniper platoon at the
>
> regimental level in every USMC regiment in WWII - but that did not happen
until
>
> after the Guadalcanal Campaign, many years later. The USA did not reinstate
>
> trained snipers until the Korean War in 1951-52. In WWII, USA Sniper Training
>
> consisted of 15 pages of text in the "Scouting, Patrolling, and Sniping"
>
> manual.and all it talked about was how to adjust open sights and civilian
model
>
> scopes at 200, 400, and 600 yards.
>
> If you wish to read about the sad history of USA Sniping during the period and
>
> the pursuit of sniping by the USMC after WWI, you should read "The Complete
Book
>
> of U.S. Sniping" by Peter R. Senich. The first military designed sniper rifle
>
> designed after the War of Northern Aggression was the a specialized version of
>
> the 1898 Krag Rifle, which was tested in June 1900 at the Springfield, MA
>
> Armory. Despite recommendation for a field trial by the Ordnance Board, the
USA
>
> chose to ignore the recommendation. No Sniper rifle was tested further until
>
> 1908, and none saw action with US forces in combat until Pershing's campaign
>
> against Pancho Villa in March 1916.
>
> Another excellent book that touches on the subject in some detail, at least in
>
> regards to the Springfield Model 1903 Rifles, is "The Springfield 1903 Rifles"
>
> by Lt.Col. William S. Brophy, USAR, Ret. The book covers all models of sniper
>
> rifles developed from the 1903 Rifle in WWI, WWII, and Korea. In the event,
>
> both authors were crack marksmen and were involved in the later USA Sniping
>
> Programs. As an aside, I have a large and fairly complete collection of the
>
> very limited specialized sniping equipment used by the USA in WWII, including
>
> one of five remaining (of 1500 made) ETO reversible camouflage sniper suits
made
>
> for the USA snipers assigned to the initial assault forces involved in the
>
> Normandy landings. My interest in USA sniping comes from that fact that my
>
> grandfather, as a USA Ordnance Sergeant serving at the Springfield, MA Armory
in
>
> 1917, tested the the little known "Trench Rifle" modification of the 1903
Rifle.
>
> Hope this helps to clarify my earlier information.
>
> Mark E. Horan
>
> "We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be.
>
> We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the
>
> landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in
>
> the streets. We shall fight in the hills. We shall
>
> never surrender!"
>
> Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 4 June 1940
>
> "The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our
>
> Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in
>
> the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen
>
> who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant
>
> challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of
>
> world war by their prowess and by their devotion.
>
> Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed
>
> by so many to so few."
>
> Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 20 August 1940
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Terry Sofian <tsofian@...>
>
> To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 6:19:17 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from
Peking"
>
> There were snipers in The American Civil War. The Union had sharpshooter
>
> regiments that were used as long range rifle units. They had scoped rifles and
>
> some of the regiments wore green uniforms
>
> anywhere at the time,
>
> nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized sniper
>
> equipment or uniforms
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Mark Horan <mhoran@...>
>
> To: ColonialWars <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>
>
> Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 3:27 pm
>
> Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from
Peking"
>
> So, the questions was:
>
> 1) Is this description of USMC Boxer era snipers accurate and were they
>
> deployed to defend the legation during the siege? (I'll skip the Charlton
>
> Heston jokes.)
>
> The answer is ... there were no USMC "snipers" there or anywhere at the time,
>
> nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized sniper
>
> equipment or uniforms. There were some men noted for being better marksman
than
>
> others, but they certainly were neither dressed nor equipped differently that
>
> any other USMC personnel.
>
> I have all the USMC/USN reports from the siege and relief of legation complex
in
>
> Peking. All the USMC personnel there were members of the Marine detachments of
>
> two USN warships ships. Each individual had different attributes and skills. A
>
> select few were better marksman than others and eventually took on the role of
>
> pinning down and terrorizing their Chinese foes with accurate shooting (by the
>
> way, a couple of folks from the other nationalities their did this as well). A
>
> couple (and I can look up their names but all by boxer files are at home) of
the
>
> USMC privates were given or adopted this role on a regular basis. ut they had
>
> no special equipment and their role was not, at that point, an officially
>
> recognized one.
>
> Mark Horan
>
> "We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be.
>
> We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the
>
> landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in
>
> the streets. We shall fight in the hills. We shall
>
> never surrender!"
>
> Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 4 June 1940
>
> "The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our
>
> Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in
>
> the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen
>
> who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant
>
> challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of
>
> world war by their prowess and by their devotion.
>
> Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed
>
> by so many to so few."
>
> Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 20 August 1940
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Peter Huston <hamchuck.1234@...>
>
> To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 7:22:27 AM
>
> Subject: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"
>
> But no one answered the important questions:
>
> 1) Is this description of USMC Boxer era snipers accurate and were they
deployed
>
> to defend the legation during the siege? (I'll skip the Charlton Heston
jokes.)
>
> 2) Does someone make them in 15mm?
>
> 3) What color shirts did they wear?
>
> I was surprised from the Wikipedia article that said the author was British.
>
> (All I'd actually gathered was that he'd spent years in China after the war
and
>
> gotten involved in high level politics during the warlord era.) He had a
couple
>
> wonderful descriptions of Americans and our characteristic behaviors.
According
>
> to the author, large numbers of American Protestant missionaries fled the
savage
>
> Boxers who wished to murder them and their families (historical fact) into the
>
> legation where they immediately proceeded, in fine American Protestant
>
> Church-going tradition, to "form committees." They reportedly had such things
as
>
> a :water committee" and a "sandbag committee" and several other committees all
>
> of which were reportedly quite helpful and useful. (Being raised American
>
> Protestant I find this description hilarious.I found it even more hilarious
>
> during a stint at a refugee center in the USA when there was constant
>
> interaction with various Protestant
>
> committees that were usually better organized than anything my boss did. In
>
> fact, I used to go to them regularly to ask what was going on in my own
>
> organization because although they were outside they were the only ones who
ever
>
> really seemed to know.)
>
> His description of the Chinese troop types struck me as perhaps too colorful
and
>
> I wondered about his detail that when there was a truce the Chinese troops
asked
>
> the allies to "stop their plot to murder the emperor so that everyone could
stop
>
> fighting and just live in peace."
>
> Finally, I really enjoyed his descriptions of how surprisingly soon after the
>
> fighting the British Indian Muslim troops and many Chinese who at least
claimed
>
> to be Muslims suddenly began engaging in small scale business with each other.
>
> Anyway, it's a very interesting book.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey Group,
I posted a picture of some more 15mm stuff I'm clearing out I have a wagon and
settlers (13) men, women and child for sale. $25.00 plus $5 to ship in the US.
These are a great add to your collection and would love to see any game AAR's
with them.
John

It's what the losers like to call the civil war.

--- In ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com, Inquisitor <jend111@...> wrote:
>
> The "War of Northern Aggression"?
> Did we have a war with Canada my teachers forgot to mention?
> Who won? When was it? Somebody help me understand this...
>                                    -E Traverso
>
> "The wise man learns from the death of others..."
>
> On May 5, 2012, at 8:24 AM, myron shipp <ronshippau@...> wrote:
>
> > HI all
> >
> > I am very pleased that after much thought I have chosen not to rise to the
bait in this post about the "War of Northern aggression", I have decided to not
let it worry me.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Myron.
> >
> > --- On Fri, 4/5/12, Mark Horan <mhoran@...> wrote:
> >
> > From: Mark Horan <mhoran@...>
> > Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from
Peking"
> > To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> > Received: Friday, 4 May, 2012, 1:17 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > In response to ...
> >
> > "There were snipers in The American Civil War. The Union had sharpshooter
> >
> > regiments that were used as long range rifle units. They had scoped rifles
and
> >
> > some of the regiments wore green uniforms"
> >
> > "anywhere at the time,"
> >
> > "nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized
sniper"
> >
> > "equipment or uniforms"
> >
> > I offer the following ...
> >
> > Not in the USMC, especially not on USN ship detachments and, for that
matter, in
> >
> > the USA - the concept of sniping, invented by US troops in the American
> >
> > Revolution, was officially done away with by the USA after the War of
Northern
> >
> > Aggression ended in 1865 and was only reinstated, much against command's
better
> >
> > judgment, after the US entry into WWI, and training was significantly
lacking
> >
> > until after the USA arrival in France. After WWI ended, the USA then
officially
> >
> > did away with snipers and sniping - only the USMC retained the concept. The
> >
> > USMC took it to heart, ultimately creating a Scout-Sniper platoon at the
> >
> > regimental level in every USMC regiment in WWII - but that did not happen
until
> >
> > after the Guadalcanal Campaign, many years later. The USA did not reinstate
> >
> > trained snipers until the Korean War in 1951-52. In WWII, USA Sniper
Training
> >
> > consisted of 15 pages of text in the "Scouting, Patrolling, and Sniping"
> >
> > manual.and all it talked about was how to adjust open sights and civilian
model
> >
> > scopes at 200, 400, and 600 yards.
> >
> > If you wish to read about the sad history of USA Sniping during the period
and
> >
> > the pursuit of sniping by the USMC after WWI, you should read "The Complete
Book
> >
> > of U.S. Sniping" by Peter R. Senich. The first military designed sniper
rifle
> >
> > designed after the War of Northern Aggression was the a specialized version
of
> >
> > the 1898 Krag Rifle, which was tested in June 1900 at the Springfield, MA
> >
> > Armory. Despite recommendation for a field trial by the Ordnance Board, the
USA
> >
> > chose to ignore the recommendation. No Sniper rifle was tested further until
> >
> > 1908, and none saw action with US forces in combat until Pershing's campaign
> >
> > against Pancho Villa in March 1916.
> >
> > Another excellent book that touches on the subject in some detail, at least
in
> >
> > regards to the Springfield Model 1903 Rifles, is "The Springfield 1903
Rifles"
> >
> > by Lt.Col. William S. Brophy, USAR, Ret. The book covers all models of
sniper
> >
> > rifles developed from the 1903 Rifle in WWI, WWII, and Korea. In the event,
> >
> > both authors were crack marksmen and were involved in the later USA Sniping
> >
> > Programs. As an aside, I have a large and fairly complete collection of the
> >
> > very limited specialized sniping equipment used by the USA in WWII,
including
> >
> > one of five remaining (of 1500 made) ETO reversible camouflage sniper suits
made
> >
> > for the USA snipers assigned to the initial assault forces involved in the
> >
> > Normandy landings. My interest in USA sniping comes from that fact that my
> >
> > grandfather, as a USA Ordnance Sergeant serving at the Springfield, MA
Armory in
> >
> > 1917, tested the the little known "Trench Rifle" modification of the 1903
Rifle.
> >
> > Hope this helps to clarify my earlier information.
> >
> > Mark E. Horan
> >
> > "We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be.
> >
> > We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the
> >
> > landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in
> >
> > the streets. We shall fight in the hills. We shall
> >
> > never surrender!"
> >
> > Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 4 June 1940
> >
> > "The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our
> >
> > Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in
> >
> > the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen
> >
> > who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant
> >
> > challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of
> >
> > world war by their prowess and by their devotion.
> >
> > Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed
> >
> > by so many to so few."
> >
> > Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 20 August 1940
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Terry Sofian <tsofian@...>
> >
> > To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 6:19:17 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from
Peking"
> >
> > There were snipers in The American Civil War. The Union had sharpshooter
> >
> > regiments that were used as long range rifle units. They had scoped rifles
and
> >
> > some of the regiments wore green uniforms
> >
> > anywhere at the time,
> >
> > nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized
sniper
> >
> > equipment or uniforms
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: Mark Horan <mhoran@...>
> >
> > To: ColonialWars <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 3:27 pm
> >
> > Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from
Peking"
> >
> > So, the questions was:
> >
> > 1) Is this description of USMC Boxer era snipers accurate and were they
> >
> > deployed to defend the legation during the siege? (I'll skip the Charlton
> >
> > Heston jokes.)
> >
> > The answer is ... there were no USMC "snipers" there or anywhere at the
time,
> >
> > nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized
sniper
> >
> > equipment or uniforms. There were some men noted for being better marksman
than
> >
> > others, but they certainly were neither dressed nor equipped differently
that
> >
> > any other USMC personnel.
> >
> > I have all the USMC/USN reports from the siege and relief of legation
complex in
> >
> > Peking. All the USMC personnel there were members of the Marine detachments
of
> >
> > two USN warships ships. Each individual had different attributes and skills.
A
> >
> > select few were better marksman than others and eventually took on the role
of
> >
> > pinning down and terrorizing their Chinese foes with accurate shooting (by
the
> >
> > way, a couple of folks from the other nationalities their did this as well).
A
> >
> > couple (and I can look up their names but all by boxer files are at home) of
the
> >
> > USMC privates were given or adopted this role on a regular basis. ut they
had
> >
> > no special equipment and their role was not, at that point, an officially
> >
> > recognized one.
> >
> > Mark Horan
> >
> > "We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be.
> >
> > We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the
> >
> > landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in
> >
> > the streets. We shall fight in the hills. We shall
> >
> > never surrender!"
> >
> > Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 4 June 1940
> >
> > "The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our
> >
> > Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in
> >
> > the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen
> >
> > who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant
> >
> > challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of
> >
> > world war by their prowess and by their devotion.
> >
> > Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed
> >
> > by so many to so few."
> >
> > Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 20 August 1940
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Peter Huston <hamchuck.1234@...>
> >
> > To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 7:22:27 AM
> >
> > Subject: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"
> >
> > But no one answered the important questions:
> >
> > 1) Is this description of USMC Boxer era snipers accurate and were they
deployed
> >
> > to defend the legation during the siege? (I'll skip the Charlton Heston
jokes.)
> >
> > 2) Does someone make them in 15mm?
> >
> > 3) What color shirts did they wear?
> >
> > I was surprised from the Wikipedia article that said the author was British.
> >
> > (All I'd actually gathered was that he'd spent years in China after the war
and
> >
> > gotten involved in high level politics during the warlord era.) He had a
couple
> >
> > wonderful descriptions of Americans and our characteristic behaviors.
According
> >
> > to the author, large numbers of American Protestant missionaries fled the
savage
> >
> > Boxers who wished to murder them and their families (historical fact) into
the
> >
> > legation where they immediately proceeded, in fine American Protestant
> >
> > Church-going tradition, to "form committees." They reportedly had such
things as
> >
> > a :water committee" and a "sandbag committee" and several other committees
all
> >
> > of which were reportedly quite helpful and useful. (Being raised American
> >
> > Protestant I find this description hilarious.I found it even more hilarious
> >
> > during a stint at a refugee center in the USA when there was constant
> >
> > interaction with various Protestant
> >
> > committees that were usually better organized than anything my boss did. In
> >
> > fact, I used to go to them regularly to ask what was going on in my own
> >
> > organization because although they were outside they were the only ones who
ever
> >
> > really seemed to know.)
> >
> > His description of the Chinese troop types struck me as perhaps too colorful
and
> >
> > I wondered about his detail that when there was a truce the Chinese troops
asked
> >
> > the allies to "stop their plot to murder the emperor so that everyone could
stop
> >
> > fighting and just live in peace."
> >
> > Finally, I really enjoyed his descriptions of how surprisingly soon after
the
> >
> > fighting the British Indian Muslim troops and many Chinese who at least
claimed
> >
> > to be Muslims suddenly began engaging in small scale business with each
other.
> >
> > Anyway, it's a very interesting book.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

LOL, thanks Joe. I kinda knew that!  So when are we gonna do some Hostile
Realms/ Anchor Of Faith/ or sumtin?
-Edgar

"The wise man learns from the death of others..."

On May 5, 2012, at 6:09 PM, "pancernijoe" <pancernijoe@...> wrote:

> It's what the losers like to call the civil war.
>
> --- In ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com, Inquisitor <jend111@...> wrote:
> >
> > The "War of Northern Aggression"?
> > Did we have a war with Canada my teachers forgot to mention?
> > Who won? When was it? Somebody help me understand this...
> > -E Traverso
> >
> > "The wise man learns from the death of others..."
> >
> > On May 5, 2012, at 8:24 AM, myron shipp <ronshippau@...> wrote:
> >
> > > HI all
> > >
> > > I am very pleased that after much thought I have chosen not to rise to the
bait in this post about the "War of Northern aggression", I have decided to not
let it worry me.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Myron.
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 4/5/12, Mark Horan <mhoran@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Mark Horan <mhoran@...>
> > > Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from
Peking"
> > > To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> > > Received: Friday, 4 May, 2012, 1:17 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In response to ...
> > >
> > > "There were snipers in The American Civil War. The Union had sharpshooter
> > >
> > > regiments that were used as long range rifle units. They had scoped rifles
and
> > >
> > > some of the regiments wore green uniforms"
> > >
> > > "anywhere at the time,"
> > >
> > > "nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized
sniper"
> > >
> > > "equipment or uniforms"
> > >
> > > I offer the following ...
> > >
> > > Not in the USMC, especially not on USN ship detachments and, for that
matter, in
> > >
> > > the USA - the concept of sniping, invented by US troops in the American
> > >
> > > Revolution, was officially done away with by the USA after the War of
Northern
> > >
> > > Aggression ended in 1865 and was only reinstated, much against command's
better
> > >
> > > judgment, after the US entry into WWI, and training was significantly
lacking
> > >
> > > until after the USA arrival in France. After WWI ended, the USA then
officially
> > >
> > > did away with snipers and sniping - only the USMC retained the concept.
The
> > >
> > > USMC took it to heart, ultimately creating a Scout-Sniper platoon at the
> > >
> > > regimental level in every USMC regiment in WWII - but that did not happen
until
> > >
> > > after the Guadalcanal Campaign, many years later. The USA did not
reinstate
> > >
> > > trained snipers until the Korean War in 1951-52. In WWII, USA Sniper
Training
> > >
> > > consisted of 15 pages of text in the "Scouting, Patrolling, and Sniping"
> > >
> > > manual.and all it talked about was how to adjust open sights and civilian
model
> > >
> > > scopes at 200, 400, and 600 yards.
> > >
> > > If you wish to read about the sad history of USA Sniping during the period
and
> > >
> > > the pursuit of sniping by the USMC after WWI, you should read "The
Complete Book
> > >
> > > of U.S. Sniping" by Peter R. Senich. The first military designed sniper
rifle
> > >
> > > designed after the War of Northern Aggression was the a specialized
version of
> > >
> > > the 1898 Krag Rifle, which was tested in June 1900 at the Springfield, MA
> > >
> > > Armory. Despite recommendation for a field trial by the Ordnance Board,
the USA
> > >
> > > chose to ignore the recommendation. No Sniper rifle was tested further
until
> > >
> > > 1908, and none saw action with US forces in combat until Pershing's
campaign
> > >
> > > against Pancho Villa in March 1916.
> > >
> > > Another excellent book that touches on the subject in some detail, at
least in
> > >
> > > regards to the Springfield Model 1903 Rifles, is "The Springfield 1903
Rifles"
> > >
> > > by Lt.Col. William S. Brophy, USAR, Ret. The book covers all models of
sniper
> > >
> > > rifles developed from the 1903 Rifle in WWI, WWII, and Korea. In the
event,
> > >
> > > both authors were crack marksmen and were involved in the later USA
Sniping
> > >
> > > Programs. As an aside, I have a large and fairly complete collection of
the
> > >
> > > very limited specialized sniping equipment used by the USA in WWII,
including
> > >
> > > one of five remaining (of 1500 made) ETO reversible camouflage sniper
suits made
> > >
> > > for the USA snipers assigned to the initial assault forces involved in the
> > >
> > > Normandy landings. My interest in USA sniping comes from that fact that my
> > >
> > > grandfather, as a USA Ordnance Sergeant serving at the Springfield, MA
Armory in
> > >
> > > 1917, tested the the little known "Trench Rifle" modification of the 1903
Rifle.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps to clarify my earlier information.
> > >
> > > Mark E. Horan
> > >
> > > "We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be.
> > >
> > > We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the
> > >
> > > landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in
> > >
> > > the streets. We shall fight in the hills. We shall
> > >
> > > never surrender!"
> > >
> > > Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 4 June 1940
> > >
> > > "The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our
> > >
> > > Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in
> > >
> > > the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen
> > >
> > > who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant
> > >
> > > challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of
> > >
> > > world war by their prowess and by their devotion.
> > >
> > > Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed
> > >
> > > by so many to so few."
> > >
> > > Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 20 August 1940
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: Terry Sofian <tsofian@...>
> > >
> > > To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 6:19:17 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from
Peking"
> > >
> > > There were snipers in The American Civil War. The Union had sharpshooter
> > >
> > > regiments that were used as long range rifle units. They had scoped rifles
and
> > >
> > > some of the regiments wore green uniforms
> > >
> > > anywhere at the time,
> > >
> > > nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized
sniper
> > >
> > > equipment or uniforms
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > From: Mark Horan <mhoran@...>
> > >
> > > To: ColonialWars <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>
> > >
> > > Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 3:27 pm
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from
Peking"
> > >
> > > So, the questions was:
> > >
> > > 1) Is this description of USMC Boxer era snipers accurate and were they
> > >
> > > deployed to defend the legation during the siege? (I'll skip the Charlton
> > >
> > > Heston jokes.)
> > >
> > > The answer is ... there were no USMC "snipers" there or anywhere at the
time,
> > >
> > > nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized
sniper
> > >
> > > equipment or uniforms. There were some men noted for being better marksman
than
> > >
> > > others, but they certainly were neither dressed nor equipped differently
that
> > >
> > > any other USMC personnel.
> > >
> > > I have all the USMC/USN reports from the siege and relief of legation
complex in
> > >
> > > Peking. All the USMC personnel there were members of the Marine
detachments of
> > >
> > > two USN warships ships. Each individual had different attributes and
skills. A
> > >
> > > select few were better marksman than others and eventually took on the
role of
> > >
> > > pinning down and terrorizing their Chinese foes with accurate shooting (by
the
> > >
> > > way, a couple of folks from the other nationalities their did this as
well). A
> > >
> > > couple (and I can look up their names but all by boxer files are at home)
of the
> > >
> > > USMC privates were given or adopted this role on a regular basis. ut they
had
> > >
> > > no special equipment and their role was not, at that point, an officially
> > >
> > > recognized one.
> > >
> > > Mark Horan
> > >
> > > "We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be.
> > >
> > > We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the
> > >
> > > landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in
> > >
> > > the streets. We shall fight in the hills. We shall
> > >
> > > never surrender!"
> > >
> > > Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 4 June 1940
> > >
> > > "The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our
> > >
> > > Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in
> > >
> > > the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen
> > >
> > > who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant
> > >
> > > challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of
> > >
> > > world war by their prowess and by their devotion.
> > >
> > > Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed
> > >
> > > by so many to so few."
> > >
> > > Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 20 August 1940
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: Peter Huston <hamchuck.1234@...>
> > >
> > > To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 7:22:27 AM
> > >
> > > Subject: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from
Peking"
> > >
> > > But no one answered the important questions:
> > >
> > > 1) Is this description of USMC Boxer era snipers accurate and were they
deployed
> > >
> > > to defend the legation during the siege? (I'll skip the Charlton Heston
jokes.)
> > >
> > > 2) Does someone make them in 15mm?
> > >
> > > 3) What color shirts did they wear?
> > >
> > > I was surprised from the Wikipedia article that said the author was
British.
> > >
> > > (All I'd actually gathered was that he'd spent years in China after the
war and
> > >
> > > gotten involved in high level politics during the warlord era.) He had a
couple
> > >
> > > wonderful descriptions of Americans and our characteristic behaviors.
According
> > >
> > > to the author, large numbers of American Protestant missionaries fled the
savage
> > >
> > > Boxers who wished to murder them and their families (historical fact) into
the
> > >
> > > legation where they immediately proceeded, in fine American Protestant
> > >
> > > Church-going tradition, to "form committees." They reportedly had such
things as
> > >
> > > a :water committee" and a "sandbag committee" and several other committees
all
> > >
> > > of which were reportedly quite helpful and useful. (Being raised American
> > >
> > > Protestant I find this description hilarious.I found it even more
hilarious
> > >
> > > during a stint at a refugee center in the USA when there was constant
> > >
> > > interaction with various Protestant
> > >
> > > committees that were usually better organized than anything my boss did.
In
> > >
> > > fact, I used to go to them regularly to ask what was going on in my own
> > >
> > > organization because although they were outside they were the only ones
who ever
> > >
> > > really seemed to know.)
> > >
> > > His description of the Chinese troop types struck me as perhaps too
colorful and
> > >
> > > I wondered about his detail that when there was a truce the Chinese troops
asked
> > >
> > > the allies to "stop their plot to murder the emperor so that everyone
could stop
> > >
> > > fighting and just live in peace."
> > >
> > > Finally, I really enjoyed his descriptions of how surprisingly soon after
the
> > >
> > > fighting the British Indian Muslim troops and many Chinese who at least
claimed
> > >
> > > to be Muslims suddenly began engaging in small scale business with each
other.
> > >
> > > Anyway, it's a very interesting book.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
> TODAY(Beta) • Powered by Yahoo!
> Prospect withdraws after eerie encounter
> Privacy Policy
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted on the blog http://bytheordersofthegreatwhitequeen.blogspot.co.uk/ A

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"War of Northern Aggression?" Isn't that the Spanish-American war?



--- In ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com, myron shipp <ronshippau@...> wrote:
>
> HI all
>
> I am very pleased that after much thought I have chosen not to rise to the
bait in this post about the "War of Northern aggression", I have decided to not
let it worry me.
>
> Cheers
> Myron.
>
> --- On Fri, 4/5/12, Mark Horan <mhoran@...> wrote:
>
> From: Mark Horan <mhoran@...>
> Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from
Peking"
> To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Friday, 4 May, 2012, 1:17 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       In response to ...
>
>
>
> "There were snipers in The American Civil War. The Union had sharpshooter
>
> regiments that were used as long range rifle units. They had scoped  rifles
and
>
> some of the regiments wore green uniforms"
>
>
>
> "anywhere at the time,"
>
> "nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized
sniper"
>
> "equipment or uniforms"
>
>
>
> I offer the following ...
>
>
>
> Not in the USMC, especially not on USN ship detachments and, for that matter,
in
>
> the USA - the concept of sniping, invented by US troops in the American
>
> Revolution, was officially done away with by the USA after the War of Northern
>
> Aggression ended in 1865 and was only reinstated, much against command's
better
>
> judgment, after the US entry into WWI, and training was significantly lacking
>
> until after the USA arrival in France.  After WWI ended, the USA then
officially
>
> did away with snipers and sniping - only the USMC retained the concept.  The
>
> USMC took it to heart, ultimately creating a Scout-Sniper platoon at the
>
> regimental level in every USMC regiment in WWII - but that did not happen
until
>
> after the Guadalcanal Campaign, many years later.  The USA did not reinstate
>
> trained snipers until the Korean War in 1951-52.  In WWII, USA Sniper Training
>
> consisted of 15 pages of text in the "Scouting, Patrolling, and Sniping"
>
> manual.and all it talked about was how to adjust open sights and civilian
model
>
> scopes at 200, 400, and 600 yards.
>
>
>
> If you wish to read about the sad history of USA Sniping during the period and
>
> the pursuit of sniping by the USMC after WWI, you should read "The Complete
Book
>
> of U.S. Sniping" by Peter R. Senich.  The first military designed sniper rifle
>
> designed after the War of Northern Aggression was the a specialized version of
>
> the 1898 Krag Rifle, which was tested in June 1900 at the Springfield, MA
>
> Armory.  Despite recommendation for a field trial by the Ordnance Board, the
USA
>
> chose to ignore the recommendation.  No Sniper rifle was tested further until
>
> 1908, and none saw action with US forces in combat until Pershing's campaign
>
> against Pancho Villa in March 1916.
>
>
>
> Another excellent book that touches on the subject in some detail, at least in
>
> regards to the Springfield Model 1903 Rifles, is "The Springfield 1903 Rifles"
>
> by Lt.Col. William S. Brophy, USAR, Ret.  The book covers all models of sniper
>
> rifles developed from the 1903 Rifle in WWI, WWII, and Korea.  In the event,
>
> both authors were crack marksmen and were involved in the later USA Sniping
>
> Programs.  As an aside, I have a large and fairly complete collection of the
>
> very limited specialized sniping equipment used by the USA in WWII, including
>
> one of five remaining (of 1500 made) ETO reversible camouflage sniper suits
made
>
> for the USA snipers assigned to the initial assault forces involved in the
>
> Normandy landings.  My interest in USA sniping comes from that fact that my
>
> grandfather, as a USA Ordnance Sergeant serving at the Springfield, MA Armory
in
>
> 1917, tested the the little known "Trench Rifle" modification of the 1903
Rifle.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps to clarify my earlier information.
>
>
>
> Mark E. Horan
>
>
>
> "We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be.
>
> We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the
>
> landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in
>
> the streets.  We shall fight in the hills.  We shall
>
> never surrender!"
>
>
>
> Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 4 June 1940
>
>
>
> "The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our
>
> Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in
>
> the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen
>
> who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant
>
> challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of
>
> world war by their prowess and by their devotion.
>
> Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed
>
> by so many to so few."
>
>
>
> Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 20 August 1940
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Terry Sofian <tsofian@...>
>
> To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 6:19:17 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from
Peking"
>
>
>
> There were snipers in The American Civil War. The Union had sharpshooter
>
> regiments that were used as long range rifle units. They had scoped rifles and
>
> some of the regiments wore green uniforms
>
>
>
> anywhere at the time,
>
> nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized sniper
>
> equipment or uniforms
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Mark Horan <mhoran@...>
>
> To: ColonialWars <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>
>
> Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 3:27 pm
>
> Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from
Peking"
>
>
>
> So, the questions was:
>
>
>
> 1) Is this description of USMC Boxer era snipers accurate and were they
>
> deployed to defend the legation during the siege? (I'll skip the Charlton
>
> Heston jokes.)
>
>
>
> The answer is ... there were no USMC "snipers" there or anywhere at the time,
>
> nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized sniper
>
> equipment or uniforms. There were some men noted for being better marksman
than
>
> others, but they certainly were neither dressed nor equipped differently that
>
> any other USMC personnel.
>
>
>
> I have all the USMC/USN reports from the siege and relief of legation complex
in
>
>
>
> Peking. All the USMC personnel there were members of the Marine detachments of
>
> two USN warships ships. Each individual had different attributes and skills. A
>
> select few were better marksman than others and eventually took on the role of
>
> pinning down and terrorizing their Chinese foes with accurate shooting (by the
>
> way, a couple of folks from the other nationalities their did this as well). A
>
> couple (and I can look up their names but all by boxer files are at home) of
the
>
>
>
> USMC privates were given or adopted this role on a regular basis. ut they had
>
> no special equipment and their role was not, at that point, an officially
>
> recognized one.
>
>
>
> Mark Horan
>
>
>
> "We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be.
>
> We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the
>
> landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in
>
> the streets. We shall fight in the hills. We shall
>
> never surrender!"
>
>
>
> Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 4 June 1940
>
>
>
> "The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our
>
> Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in
>
> the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen
>
> who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant
>
> challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of
>
> world war by their prowess and by their devotion.
>
> Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed
>
> by so many to so few."
>
>
>
> Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 20 August 1940
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Peter Huston <hamchuck.1234@...>
>
> To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 7:22:27 AM
>
> Subject: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"
>
>
>
> But no one answered the important questions:
>
>
>
> 1) Is this description of USMC Boxer era snipers accurate and were they
deployed
>
>
>
> to defend the legation during the siege? (I'll skip the Charlton Heston
jokes.)
>
>
>
> 2) Does someone make them in 15mm?
>
> 3) What color shirts did they wear?
>
>
>
> I was surprised from the Wikipedia article that said the author was British.
>
> (All I'd actually gathered was that he'd spent years in China after the war
and
>
> gotten involved in high level politics during the warlord era.) He had a
couple
>
> wonderful descriptions of Americans and our characteristic behaviors.
According
>
> to the author, large numbers of American Protestant missionaries fled the
savage
>
>
>
> Boxers who wished to murder them and their families (historical fact) into the
>
> legation where they immediately proceeded, in fine American Protestant
>
> Church-going tradition, to "form committees." They reportedly had such things
as
>
>
>
> a :water committee" and a "sandbag committee" and several other committees all
>
> of which were reportedly quite helpful and useful. (Being raised American
>
> Protestant I find this description hilarious.I found it even more hilarious
>
> during a stint at a refugee center in the USA when there was constant
>
> interaction with various Protestant
>
> committees that were usually better organized than anything my boss did. In
>
> fact, I used to go to them regularly to ask what was going on in my own
>
> organization because although they were outside they were the only ones who
ever
>
>
>
> really seemed to know.)
>
>
>
> His description of the Chinese troop types struck me as perhaps too colorful
and
>
>
>
> I wondered about his detail that when there was a truce the Chinese troops
asked
>
>
>
> the allies to "stop their plot to murder the emperor so that everyone could
stop
>
>
>
> fighting and just live in peace."
>
>
>
> Finally, I really enjoyed his descriptions of how surprisingly soon after the
>
> fighting the British Indian Muslim troops and many Chinese who at least
claimed
>
> to be Muslims suddenly began engaging in small scale business with each other.
>
>
>
> Anyway, it's a very interesting book.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I'm not disagreeing with those more knowledgeable than me, but his description
was of two man teams, one with binoculars and one with a rifle, who worked
together. I've never seen figures like that.




--- In ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com, Al Maurer <acmaurer@...> wrote:
>
> As Mark points out, there was no specialized sniper training in the US at the
time, but I suspect David's comments about leaders knowing their best shots
applies.
>
> For those in the US, the NRA's current edition of The Rifleman has a couple of
articles on snipers and their weapons.
>
> For Peking, and to opine on the original question: I would simply designate a
specific figure as a "marksman" and within the rule mechanics allow for better
results when he fires.
>
> Al Maurer
> (719) 330-4284
> TheVoiceofLiberty.us
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 4, 2012, at 10:23 AM, edgington52@... wrote:
>
> >

I remember this even better than Beau Geste!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VVY-iSI69c

;-)

I saw this long before Beau Geste.  It remains a classic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VVY-iSI69c

Hey Guys.

Hoping to get some help ID'ing some Foundry DA figs I ended up with as part of a
trade.  Don't know much about this line of figures, and I was thinking I would
use them ... now I just want to sell them, and I'm not positive what they are,
or what they're worth.  I know someone on this board will know, and I'd
appreciate your help.

I know most of them are Masai ... just not sure what kind, as I know Foundry
makes a couple versions of the Masai, lion mane and another kind.

Here's the link to the photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29922584@N04/sets/72157629387096865/

I'd love to know what types the non-masai are, and what range the archers go
with.

Here's the count of what I have:

Masai with Headdresses: 14
Masai without Headdressses: 20

Other DA types?
Loin cloth: 9
Archers: 4

Sheilds: 50
Spears: 38

I want to post these for sale, but not sure what they are or what to charge.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks
brian
brianjenglish@...

The archers and figs with short hair and small loin cloth are the generic
African Native Spearmen.
Ron V




________________________________
From: ihateads05 <brianjenglish@...>
To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, May 6, 2012 2:55:47 PM
Subject: [ColonialWars] Need Help ID'ing Foundry DA Figures

 
Hey Guys.

Hoping to get some help ID'ing some Foundry DA figs I ended up with as part of a
trade. Don't know much about this line of figures, and I was thinking I would
use them ... now I just want to sell them, and I'm not positive what they are,
or what they're worth. I know someone on this board will know, and I'd
appreciate your help.

I know most of them are Masai ... just not sure what kind, as I know Foundry
makes a couple versions of the Masai, lion mane and another kind.

Here's the link to the photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29922584@N04/sets/72157629387096865/

I'd love to know what types the non-masai are, and what range the archers go
with.

Here's the count of what I have:

Masai with Headdresses: 14
Masai without Headdressses: 20

Other DA types?
Loin cloth: 9
Archers: 4

Sheilds: 50
Spears: 38

I want to post these for sale, but not sure what they are or what to charge.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks
brian
brianjenglish@...




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all,

I'm starting to research a campaign setting in South America around the 1870
period.

What I have in mind is a combination of the genuine military actions: the Great
Pacific War on the West coast, and the Paraguayan War on the East, but also to
include the sorts of ideas that have come out of Darkest Africa games.

So adventure, exploration, lost civilisations, that sort of thing.

Has anyone else explored this area?

Andrew

So many classic scenes!  It was like I watched it just yesterday, wish I were
that young!
 
Bob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wouldnt mind exploring that one

Message Received: May 07 2012, 02:31 PM
From: "Andrew"
To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: [ColonialWars] South America?

Hi all,

I'm starting to research a campaign setting in South America around the 1870
period.

What I have in mind is a combination of the genuine military actions: the Great
Pacific War on the West coast, and the Paraguayan War on the East, but also to
include the
sorts of ideas that have come out of Darkest Africa games.

So adventure, exploration, lost civilisations, that sort of thing.

Has anyone else explored this area?

Andrew

Sorry, the first Porky Pig Etranger film was a joke.  The other was meant to go
on a different list.

HI, John,

I remember reading Caroe's book, but I think I got it through interlibrary
loan.  I  went looking just now, and didn't find it on any of the shelves. 
Unfortunately, there are a few shelves that have furniture and Star's theatre
costumes in front of them, so I can't get at them.  It must also be said that I
never got around to organizing all my books, so whatever I have on Afghanistan
could be anywhere.  I plan to tak e next week off, and I'll try to get at some
of these hidden corners.



David Edgington



----- Original Message -----


From: "Sandy Beardsley" <jsbeardsley@...>
To: "ColonialWars" <colonialwars@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2012 10:13:11 AM
Subject: RE: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"


David,  Hi, I was looking through my library and am trying to find my copy of
The Pathans by Olaf Caroe.  Did I lend it to you when you were working on your
Pathan Matrix for the Colonial games website?  I'm not accusing you of
anything, I'm merely trying to locate a book.  I tried the E-mail address I had
for and the E-mail came back as undeliverable.  If I did lend it to you could
you please send it back.  If not, please accept my apologies for any inference
of neglect
 
John. S. Beardsley.  

Sandy and John Beardsley JSBeardsley@...
 



To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
From: edgington52@...
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 16:23:32 +0000
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"

  





A quarter of a century earlier, and the US Army, not the Marines.  Cavalrymen
on Reno Hill, above the Li ttle Bighorn came under accurate fire from an Indian
sharpshooter on a neighboring hill.   Several of the company officers each
rounded up 2-3 of their best shots and set them to deal with the sharpshooter.
 Soon, the problem was solved, though whether because the Indian was killed,
wounded, or decided the locale was decidedly unhealthy, we don't know.  No
cavalry snipers/sharpshooters, per se; the officers just knew which of their men
were the best shots .  They probably also knew who was the fastest runner, the
strongest  , and who could spit the farthest, had any of these skills been
called for.   However, when they'd selected the Springfield carbine for the
cavalry several years earlier (BGen Alfred Terry, committee chairman, Major
Marcus Reno, cavalry representative!!), range had been a major consideration.  

I don't know how the Marine rifle was selected, and to what degree high accuracy
at long range might have been a consideration in its selection.

David Edgington

----- Original Message -----

From: "Mike Blake" <mike.blakeuk@...>
To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 7:42:31 AM
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"

  

Mark

Tnx for this - Nicely put � this is my understanding too. Can you recall what
these �sniping� duties (as we would call them now) were described as in the
reports? I am going through my notes to see if I recorded anything � I will
look at the copies of official reports and first hand accounts I have too.

Mike

From: Mark Horan
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 3:19 PM
To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"

So, the questions was:

1) Is this description of USMC Boxer era snipers accurate and were they
deployed to defend the legation during the siege? (I'll skip the Charlton
Heston jokes.)

The answer is ... there were no USMC "snipers" there or anywhere at the time,
nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized sniper
equipment or uniforms. There were some men noted for being better marksman than
others, but they certainly were neither dressed nor equipped differently that
any other USMC personnel.

I have all the USMC/USN reports from the siege and relief of legation complex in
Peking. All the USMC personnel there were members of the Marine detachments of
two USN warships ships. Each individual had different attributes and skills. A
select few were better marksman than others and eventually took on the role of
pinning down and terrorizing their Chinese foes with accurate shooting (by the
way, a couple of folks from the other nationalities their did this as well). A
couple (and I can look up their names but all by boxer files are at home) of the
USMC privates were given or adopted this role on a regular basis. ut they had
no special equipment and their role was not, at that point, an officially
recognized one.

Mark Horan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                            
                  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

ColonialWars Photos section -
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst

*** NEW FILE ATTACHMENT LIST ***
ColonialBattles-subscribe@onelist.com
(For battle reports and pictures)

Community email addresses:
Files - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/files/
Chat - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/chat
Post message: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: ColonialWars-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: ColonialWars-owner@yahoogroups.com  
Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OH MAN!

This brings back memories! I have not seen this in....maybe 30+ years!
Maybe as it not too PC!

Larry

--- In ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com, "Walt" <gloriousbattle@...> wrote:
>
> I remember this even better than Beau Geste!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VVY-iSI69c
>
> ;-)
>

Hi

Yes that was my long term plan for years, I have done lots of research and have
it on the SACA & Repique Yahoo groups, I am using 15mm DBHx armies using Frei
Korp and Outpost figures. The map will be a "Risk" style map and when an army is
in the same area as an enemy one there is a battle, you can do 3 DBHx battles a
night so a campaign wont take too long. I have a similar plan under way for
Europe 1889 using the "Diplomacy" map. The computer game "Conquer club" is a
good source for maps like this, it is an online version of Risk. My problem is
getting 5 other people who want to play.

Cheers
Myron.

--- On Mon, 7/5/12, Andrew <bozzie99@...> wrote:

From: Andrew <bozzie99@...>
Subject: [ColonialWars] South America?
To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Received: Monday, 7 May, 2012, 7:48 PM
















 









       Hi all,



I'm starting to research a campaign setting in South America around the 1870
period.



What I have in mind is a combination of the genuine military actions: the Great
Pacific War on the West coast, and the Paraguayan War on the East, but also to
include the sorts of ideas that have come out of Darkest Africa games.



So adventure, exploration, lost civilisations, that sort of thing.



Has anyone else explored this area?



Andrew



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Game Day Invitation  CUSTER'S LAST STAND -- LITTLE BIG HORN 1876



     BATTLE ANNIVERSARY COMMEMORATION


     Saturday 9 June 2012


     FULL-DAY version of 1-1 wargame w/original Old-Glory 28mm miniatures as
presented at ORIGINS, GENCON, HISTORICON & UK.


     * LOCATION:   "FAIRVIEW GRANGE" -- 6270 Tuscarawas Road, Industry, PA  15052
(Near Pittsburgh, PA)


     * FEATURING:


     1.  GAME MASTERS:  Paul Olszanski, Pete Panzeri and LBH Team.


     2.  Multi-media Presentations by author/GM Pete Panzeri on

     ·        The Little Big Horn 1876 Campaign (Osprey, 1996)
*[Book-signings@5pm.]


     ·        Plains Wars Tactics and Operations  (The Ohio State University,
1997)


     ·        "Crazy Horse Rules!" (SmallWarsPress)


     3.   Pre-Battle Planning and Operations Sessions


     4.  Mid-Battle "Camaraderie"


     5.  Post Battle After Action Review & publication


     6.  Video & Photo Sessions for Wargames Illustrated 300th issue.


     * Open to all BUT ...

     --- PLEASE RESERVE YOUR SPOT IN ADVANCE.


     * EMAIL:  peterpanzeri@.... -- for confirmation and further
instructions


     * Event is FREE, but a small donation onsite for facility/costs may be
appreciated.


     //////end/////////

HI All

Does anyone in the group know what color the French painted their Artillery &
equipment in the colonial period?

Thanks in advance
Dave Hornung, Buffalo, NY

Hi David,

Thanks for looking.  If it helps, the book was autographed by Caroe in the 50s,
with a reference to a page number in the inscription.
I've take our house apart looking for it.  If I do find it, I'll let you know
ASAP!

Thanks again
John

Sandy and John Beardsley JSBeardsley@...




To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
From: edgington52@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 04:20:55 +0000
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"







HI, John,

I remember reading Caroe's book, but I think I got it through interlibrary loan.
I  went looking just now, and didn't find it on any of the shelves. 
Unfortunately, there are a few shelves that have furniture and Star's theatre
costumes in front of them, so I can't get at them.  It must also be said that I
never got around to organizing all my books, so whatever I have on Afghanistan
could be anywhere.  I plan to tak e next week off, and I'll try to get at some
of these hidden corners.

David Edgington

----- Original Message -----

From: "Sandy Beardsley" <jsbeardsley@...>
To: "ColonialWars" <colonialwars@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2012 10:13:11 AM
Subject: RE: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"

David,  Hi, I was looking through my library and am trying to find my copy of
The Pathans by Olaf Caroe.  Did I lend it to you when you were working on your
Pathan Matrix for the Colonial games website?  I'm not accusing you of anything,
I'm merely trying to locate a book.  I tried the E-mail address I had for and
the E-mail came back as undeliverable.  If I did lend it to you could you please
send it back.  If not, please accept my apologies for any inference of neglect

John. S. Beardsley.

Sandy and John Beardsley JSBeardsley@...


To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
From: edgington52@...
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 16:23:32 +0000
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"



A quarter of a century earlier, and the US Army, not the Marines.  Cavalrymen on
Reno Hill, above the Li ttle Bighorn came under accurate fire from an Indian
sharpshooter on a neighboring hill.   Several of the company officers each
rounded up 2-3 of their best shots and set them to deal with the sharpshooter. 
Soon, the problem was solved, though whether because the Indian was killed,
wounded, or decided the locale was decidedly unhealthy, we don't know.  No
cavalry snipers/sharpshooters, per se; the officers just knew which of their men
were the best shots .  They probably also knew who was the fastest runner, the
strongest  , and who could spit the farthest, had any of these skills been
called for.   However, when they'd selected the Springfield carbine for the
cavalry several years earlier (BGen Alfred Terry, committee chairman, Major
Marcus Reno, cavalry representative!!), range had been a major consideration.

I don't know how the Marine rifle was selected, and to what degree high accuracy
at long range might have been a consideration in its selection.

David Edgington

----- Original Message -----

From: "Mike Blake" <mike.blakeuk@...>
To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 7:42:31 AM
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"



Mark

Tnx for this - Nicely put � this is my understanding too. Can you recall what
these �sniping� duties (as we would call them now) were described as in the
reports? I am going through my notes to see if I recorded anything � I will
look at the copies of official reports and first hand accounts I have too.

Mike

From: Mark Horan
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 3:19 PM
To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Re: Was Figures now "Indiscrete Letters from Peking"

So, the questions was:

1) Is this description of USMC Boxer era snipers accurate and were they
deployed to defend the legation during the siege? (I'll skip the Charlton
Heston jokes.)

The answer is ... there were no USMC "snipers" there or anywhere at the time,
nor was there anything approaching "sniper" rifles, nor any specialized sniper
equipment or uniforms. There were some men noted for being better marksman than
others, but they certainly were neither dressed nor equipped differently that
any other USMC personnel.

I have all the USMC/USN reports from the siege and relief of legation complex in
Peking. All the USMC personnel there were members of the Marine detachments of
two USN warships ships. Each individual had different attributes and skills. A
select few were better marksman than others and eventually took on the role of
pinning down and terrorizing their Chinese foes with accurate shooting (by the
way, a couple of folks from the other nationalities their did this as well). A
couple (and I can look up their names but all by boxer files are at home) of the
USMC privates were given or adopted this role on a regular basis. ut they had
no special equipment and their role was not, at that point, an officially
recognized one.

Mark Horan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

ColonialWars Photos section -
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst

*** NEW FILE ATTACHMENT LIST ***
ColonialBattles-subscribe@onelist.com
(For battle reports and pictures)

Community email addresses:
Files - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/files/
Chat - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/chat
Post message: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: ColonialWars-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: ColonialWars-owner@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dave

From memory there is a file which has all the nations listed – take a look in
the Files section. I asked a while back about various other nations – do a
search through the archive and you will find the posts and French was included
IIRC.

Mike

From: David
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 2:53 AM
To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam][ColonialWars] French Equipment


HI All

Does anyone in the group know what color the French painted their Artillery &
equipment in the colonial period?

Thanks in advance
Dave Hornung, Buffalo, NY





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

FWIW some books on a recent list which may be of interest to somebody here:

[10877] Lawrence, H M L Major: ADVENTURES OF AN OFFICER IN THE SERVICE OF
RUNJEET SINGH (Oxford University Press 1975)
Offered for sale by Forest Books (Uppingham) (books@...) at £20.00
For more information, click below:
http://ukbookworld.com/cgi-bin/order_enq.pl?eid=forester%5e10877

[11099] Corbett, Julian S., LLM. (ed.): FIGHTING INSTRUCTIONS 1530 - 1816
(Conway Maritime, 1971)
Offered for sale by Forest Books (Uppingham) (books@...) at £15.00
For more information, click below:
http://ukbookworld.com/cgi-bin/order_enq.pl?eid=forester%5e11099

[r9560] Brown, David K Paddle Warships: The Earliest Steam Powered Fighting
Ships 1815-1850 London: Conway Maritime Press, 1993.
Offered for sale by Barter Books (webquery@...) at £28.00
For more information, click below:
http://ukbookworld.com/cgi-bin/order_enq.pl?eid=barterbooks%5er9560

[hir36] Cannon, Richard The Thirty-Sixth, or the Herefordshire Regiment of
Foot. The Historical Records of the British Army London: Parker, Furnivall
and Parker, 1853.
Offered for sale by Barter Books (webquery@...) at £66.00
For more information, click below:
http://ukbookworld.com/cgi-bin/order_enq.pl?eid=barterbooks%5ehir36

Mike

Thanks, Myron. I'll look up your other resource sites.

I'd be happy to play along, but since I am in Melbourne, Australia and I suspect
you are not it would be difficult.

Just picked up a copy of the Uniforms of the Pacific War from Caliver. Great
resource. Inspirational colour plates.

Andrew

--- In ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com, myron shipp <ronshippau@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Yes that was my long term plan for years, I have done lots of research and
have it on the SACA & Repique Yahoo groups, I am using 15mm DBHx armies using
Frei Korp and Outpost figures. The map will be a "Risk" style map and when an
army is in the same area as an enemy one there is a battle, you can do 3 DBHx
battles a night so a campaign wont take too long. I have a similar plan under
way for Europe 1889 using the "Diplomacy" map. The computer game "Conquer club"
is a good source for maps like this, it is an online version of Risk. My problem
is getting 5 other people who want to play.
>
> Cheers
> Myron.
>
> --- On Mon, 7/5/12, Andrew <bozzie99@...> wrote:
>
> From: Andrew <bozzie99@...>
> Subject: [ColonialWars] South America?
> To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Monday, 7 May, 2012, 7:48 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Hi all,
>
>
>
> I'm starting to research a campaign setting in South America around the 1870
period.
>
>
>
> What I have in mind is a combination of the genuine military actions: the
Great Pacific War on the West coast, and the Paraguayan War on the East, but
also to include the sorts of ideas that have come out of Darkest Africa games.
>
>
>
> So adventure, exploration, lost civilisations, that sort of thing.
>
>
>
> Has anyone else explored this area?
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

French colonial artillery : Bottle green (a deep green with olive tones). From
Mr. Palmtree's guide in the files section.

--- In ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com, "David" <davehornung@...> wrote:
>
> HI All
>
> Does anyone in the group know what color the French painted their Artillery &
equipment in the colonial period?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Dave Hornung, Buffalo, NY
>

For my NW Frontier wargame army, I want to establish an elephant battery.

However, it is not the 40lb heavy artillery drawn by elephants but a field gun
battery carried on the elephants themselves for use in mountainous terrain.

The only photo I can find is on page 18

link

Can anyone shed any light on how the gun is broken down into loads, as I cannot
really make it out from the photo?

Might there be 3 loads: wheels, carriage and barrel each on an elephant or
perhaps only 2: wheels and carriage on one elephant and barrel on the other?

Alan

Can't see your photo; somehow I didn't get the link. However, if it helps, my
Italian camel battery has two loads for  a mountain gun battery. Scale that up
for elephants and a bigger gun and I would think two would still work. Keep in
mind though that you might want that third one anyway to carry the ammo!

Al Maurer
(719) 330-4284
TheVoiceofLiberty.us

Sent from my iPad

On May 10, 2012, at 9:22 AM, "alan_lockhart" <alanlockhart17@...> wrote:

> For my NW Frontier wargame army, I want to establish an elephant battery.
>
> However, it is not the 40lb heavy artillery drawn by elephants but a field gun
battery carried on the elephants themselves for use in mountainous terrain.
>
> The only photo I can find is on page 18
>
> link
>
> Can anyone shed any light on how the gun is broken down into loads, as I
cannot really make it out from the photo?
>
> Might there be 3 loads: wheels, carriage and barrel each on an elephant or
perhaps only 2: wheels and carriage on one elephant and barrel on the other?
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ColonialWars Photos section -
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst
>
> *** NEW FILE ATTACHMENT LIST ***
> ColonialBattles-subscribe@onelist.com
> (For battle reports and pictures)
>
> Community email addresses:
> Files - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/files/
> Chat - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/chat
> Post message: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: ColonialWars-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: ColonialWars-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Useful replies on TMP:

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=267290

Alan