Alex,

In 1986, for the Alamo Sesquicentennial year, at DallasCon, Tom
Glaser and I did an Alamo Assault game in 15mm that had
some of the same problems. I gave away copies of the rules,
and have since seen the game given a number of times at
conventions over the years, occasionally with somebody else's
name on them. I'm told it is a convention standard, now.

Since I know little enough about the Alamo (Tom was an expert,
though) and nothing about the Wahehe, I'll just say what we did,
and leave you to adapt the system to your game, if you find it
useful.

The Alamo was in the center of the table. There were four
Mexican General players, representing the four regiments
present (one of the Generals also played Santa Anna). Each
general  came in on a different side of the table within one foot of
the center. Santa Anna got to say where on that side the
regiment entered (so could mass force a bit by shifting adjacent
regiments toward the same corner).

Each regiment had 4 companies of 16 figures each. When a
figure was killed, he was placed on a Casualty Card which had
five columns of base-sized squares, one column for each
company and one for the Reserves, which come in near the end.
Each column had 16 base sized squares (arranged 2x8),
numbered 1-16. At #8 was the notation "1st Assault" and at #5
"2nd Assault". A company's first casualty was placed on square
1 and so forth. When a company in the first assault placed a
figure on square 8, the company began rolling for stragglers
(half D6) each turn, with that many figures in the company routing
away. Figures actually inside the walls when the straggler roll
was made would not rout but fight until killed.

After all the Mexicans in the first assault had been killed or
straggled (routed), the second assault started, with each
General having four full companies again. This time, the
companies began straggler rolls on the 5th casualty.

The third assault began as soon as any Mexican figure on the
second assault got inside the Alamo. For the third assault, each
General started a reserve company (16 figures) from anywhere
on his edge of the table, and Santa Anna got to enter a company
of his elite Zapadores in addition. He could also bring his
personal figure onto the table with any reserve company, if he
wished. I do not remember if the reserve companies were made
up of the casualties from the other companies, or whether they
were dedicated figures.

The reserve companies, being fresh, rolled for stragglers after 8
(not 5) casualties, and the elite Zapadores never rolled. Any
company Santa Anna was with never straggled and fought at a
bonus, but if he got killed, every unit immediately started double
straggler rolls for every remaining turn.

If the Texans had any survivors still holding the fort after all
Mexicans from the 2nd/3rd assault had been killed or routed
away, the Mexicans were deemed to be too exhausted and
demoralized for another assault, and the Texans won.

ADVANTAGES FOR CONVENTION PLAY
The casualty cards allowed a player to see when he needed to
start rolling stragglers without tedious percentage calculations.
All companies were the same in the Alamo game, but for your
game, some units might have greater staying power than others
(just prepare different cards) . At whatever level they rout, it is
easy for the player to see it - when a casualty figure goes on the
square marked "1st Assault" or "2nd Assault", you roll. This
system also puts all the casualties back in their proper
companies on the cards, so no time need be wasted in sorting
figures between assaults. There are lots of figures on the table,
so the Mexicans look impressive, but you don't have to take time
to kill them all, since they start routing away at 50% or 35%
casualties.

MODIFICATIONS FOR THE WAHEHE
Since the Wahehe companies probably won't have have easily
distinguishable uniforms, like the Mexicans, you may need to put
colored dots in the middle of the bases' rear edges for
identification. The N'Trlafingi iviyo may be yellow, first company
has one yellow dot, second, two, etc. Since the Wahehe probably
were not organized by company within an iviyo, you may want to
modify the system, or just accept the "companies" as family or
comrade groupings within the iviyo/impi/whatever.

THE PLAY
The system worked very well, and went quickly enough to get the
Alamo's historical three assaults (by fudging the second and
third together) in 3 hours.  This was partially because each
company stayed on a movement tray, until it touched the walls of
the Alamo, whereupon it was free to move anywhere stand by
stand. It's a great game-speeder just to move the whole tray, and
it looks great with Mexican regulars, but how applicable it would
be to irregular natives in your situation, I'm not sure.

For balance and play-length, you'll have to gametest a couple of
times to fine-tune the numbers (particularly, at how many
casualties the straggler rolling begins for each assault). In the
Alamo, we had 6 games, with one Texan victory, so I was
pleased at the balance (never mind that every Texan player in
that victory had played in an earlier session and knew the ropes).
The game generated a lot of enthusiasm. Tom theorized it was
because each side got to be the winning side for a while - in the
first assault, the Texans are shooting fish in a barrel and
inevitably get to have the mini victory of turning back the assault.
By the third assault, the Mexicans are kicking posterior, and the
Texans are sweating.

Hope this provides some help.

Good luck.

-- David

================

--- In ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Bagosy"
<matthias_corvinus@m...> wrote:
>
>
> Hullo, gentlemen (and ladies). Have had a bit of a mental block
in finishing
> up a scenario.
>
> I was wondering if some of my brethren might be able to help
me. I am
> running a scenario for the Wahehe War at Cold Wars this year,
Zelewski's
> Column. Everything has gone very well in playtests, and thanks
to Lon at
> Brigade Games, I now have some exceptional Askaris to fight
the Wahehe
> menace.
>
> Anyway, I've run into only one major problem. I'm trying to figure
out how
> to handle wave attacks, as I do not have enough castings to
represent every
> one of the 4,000+ Wahehe warriors present. Historically, there
was one
> initial rush, and then a number of Iviyos trickled in over the day,
> attempting to dislodge the Askari survivors from their positions.
In
> general, they milled about, fell back, re-formed, and attacked
again. Not
> unlike the four-five separate attacks launched at Rorke's Drift.
>
> How do you gentlemen and ladies handle scenarios of this
kind? Ie: How do
> you do the mechanic for introducing new waves? I am not sure
how to do it.
> Some of the Irregulars have suggested having each Ibutho run
until it is
> wiped out, then re-form, attack again, etc.. until it's expended all
the
> reserves. This seems to work alright, but it does create an
artificial
> situation in which a Wahehe Induna is forced to commit his
warriors until
> every one of them is dead to form a new attack.
>
> Another attempted fix was to allot each of the Wahehe a
number of hitpoints
> equal to the number of men the actual casting represented, so
that roughly
> every five hits removes a single Wahehe casting. The problem
is that, while
> this works well for shooting, it works very poorly for melee.
>
> I have about two hundred Wahehe, and the idea is to divide
them into four
> iviyos of fifty men each, with the Wahehe capable of launching
about four or
> five attacks before their resources and will to fight is depleted.
>
> Would appreciate any thoughts on this. I could do it very simply,
I'm sure,
> I just haven't found anything that's totally comfortable for me yet.
>
> Believe me, if I could paint and acquire the 4,000 Wahehe, I
would, but I
> can't possibly (at least in the near future).
>
> If it helps any in your advice, there are approximately seventy
European and
> Askari castings opposing them, and they recieve no
reinforcements. This may
> or may not include a Maxim with crew (depending upon
whether or not the
> Askaris can salvage the gun before it's too late). The Askaris
are also
> encumbered by a mule train, cattle, sheep, and porters.
>
> I will gladly credit you with your assistance when the game is
run.
>
> -Alex
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "In appreciation of the Transvaal's assurance that they are
desirous of a
> peaceful solution of the crisis, the 5th Lancers spent Sunday
morning at the
> camp, sharpening their lances and sabres."
>
> - Regimental Diary, 5th Lancers
>
>
__________________________________________________
_______________
> Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of
your high-speed
> experience.
http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1

I agree with Dennis on this.  The Zulu Command at
Rorke's Drift lost control of the battle very early
on.  This may have been due to the impetuous nature of
the first units to arrive making an attack.  Then with
their battle drills interrupted the commanders could
not get back to the tactics and could only see one way
ahead.

The ground was in favour of a Zulu victory but the
construction of the defences changed this. Without the
defences RD would have fallen very quickly - maybe in
the first rush.

Alan

  --- Dennis L Bishop <dbishop21@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
As before, I agree that the Zulu were having a problem
with coordination from the beginning of the battle.
My theory is that the initial plan made by the
uThulwana and inDlondhlo changed due to battlefield
conditions and the Zulu ended up fighting a battle
they didn't wish to fight.  In this situation,
certainly there would be a lot of confusion and
individual initiatives would dominate the battlefield.

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Norton, Richard, Prof.
   To: Dennis L Bishop ; colonialwars@yahoogroups.com ;
Alex Bagosy ; The Angle
   Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 7:11 AM
   Subject: RE: [ColonialWars] Need some Advice: Wave
Attacks


    << I am not sure about the Wahehe, but I am sure
that the Zulu at Rorke's did
   not "mill around." >>

   Oh hell, for the sake of contrariness I just can't
resist.  While the Zulu at Rorke's Drift were not a
mob, neither were they automatons moving in
synchronized ballet-like maneuvers to the will of
their commanders. (And no, Dennis you did not imply
that they did.)   Like most - indeed I would argue all
- soldiers when melee and confusion begin to dominate
on the battlefield, some *must* have "milled around."
And I suppose it also depends on what your definition
of "milling around is."  I don't think it's
sightseeing or aimless wandering  (although there are
probably instances of both in combat, humans being the
contrary beings we are) - rather I think its more a
case of soldiers trying to make sense of what's going
on, how to increase their safety or their combat
effectiveness, find comrades or orient themselves.
For examples of the behavior I am thinking about I'd
offer up the French cavalry picking their way among
the Anglo-allied squares at Waterloo; U.S. infantryman
on the sands and bluffs of Omaha beach, Confederate
soldiers who reached the stone wall at Gettysburg,
elements of the both the 7th cavalry and their
opposition at Little Big Horn, Zulus fighting in the
hospital at Rorke's Drift and so on.




                                Rick


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Dennis,

I have to disagree - EVERY army has problems fighting
at night even now.

I think what you mean is that the Zulu had no
objections to and were experienced in night fighting.
With this I agree.  they frequently made night
approaches, fought night skirmishes not just in 1879.

Alan

  --- Dennis L Bishop <dbishop21@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
I would  disagree.  The Zulu had no problem fighting
at night.  They fought
in the dark three times in 1879.

Dennis


----- Original Message -----
From: "The Angle" <TheAngle@...>
To: <colonialwars@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Need some Advice: Wave
Attacks


> On "milling around" at Rorke's Drift;
>
> Given that most of the battle occurred at night,
it's hard to imagine how
at
> least some portion of the Zulu force could not have
spent the better
portion
> of the fight "milling around" simply trying to
reconnect with their units
> and commanders. They weren't trained in night
fighting and they would have
> had no communication except by shouted commands,
which is a terrible
system
> when operating on exterior lines.
>
> The Angle
> visit The Colonial Angle at
http://home.comcast.net/~theangle
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pijl, J.W. van der" <jw.vanderpijl@...>
> To: "'Norton, Richard, Prof.'"
<nortonr@...>; "Dennis L Bishop"
> <dbishop21@...>; <colonialwars@yahoogroups.com>;
"Alex Bagosy"
> <matthias_corvinus@...>; "The Angle"
<TheAngle@...>
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 6:15 AM
> Subject: RE: [ColonialWars] Need some Advice: Wave
Attacks
>
>
> > > << I am not sure about the Wahehe, but I am sure
that the Zulu at
> Rorke's
> > > did
> > > not "mill around." >>
> > >
> > > Oh hell, for the sake of contrariness I just
can't resist.  While the
> Zulu
> > > at Rorke's Drift were not a mob, neither were
they automatons moving
in
> > > synchronized ballet-like maneuvers to the will
of their commanders.
> > [>>>]
> > I daresay they didn't. If they had, Rorke's Drift
would probably not
> > have become the famous event that it is now. It's
hard to imagine how
100
> > Britons would have stood up to 3000 Zulus
simultaneously attacking from
> all
> > sides, with all the cover the surrounding terrain
provided.
> >
> > I'm convinced that the survivors owed their lives
to the fact that
> > no overall command was present and the lower
Indunas simply did as they
> saw
> > fit in their small sector of the battle.
> >
> > Jan-Willem
> >
>
>
>
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--- In ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com, "gabriel_landowski"
<gabriel_landowski@y...> wrote:
> > And when you already have 250 Zulus painted and based, why stop
> > there.....?
>
> I hate to say it, but on a game of over 400 natives I would break
out
> the pennies as markers if needed ~ of course I'd work feverishly to
> get the actual miniatures completed but...

Egad, Sir! well...I say!....I mean....harrumph!....Well as long as
you are doing your best...

But pennies! Really!

Jan-Willem (convinced that civilization as he knows it has ended
(again))

;-)

I pulled out my 1973-1974 Scruby catalog.  He had several Napoleonic lines
listed as 30mm (as well as ACW and Colonia), but he also had a 1" line of Thirty
Years War figures.

You are right that the Table Top Talk (TTT) ads listed the French 2nd Empire
figures as 1".  I also found an ad for 1" Austrians for 1866.

What's interesting is that the 1973 catalog lists 25mm French and Prussians
for the Franco-Prussian War but does not list the Austrians.

I'm now wondering if Jack made 1" French 2nd Empire figures and Austrian
figures and then made separate 25mm lines, or if they are one and the same?  He
was known to start a line of figures and then taking them out of production.

I have a couple of his 25mm figures and a couple thousand of his 20mm
Napoleonic figures.  The 20mm fit in well with the plastic Airfix but the 25mm
figures are larger.  However, it's possible that the original advertising stated
that they were compatible with Airfix.

I'd love to get a photocopy of his 1970 catalog.  Pleaes contact me directly
if you'd be willing to make a copy for me.  Thanks.

Bob Burke


In a message dated 1/27/04 9:29:42 PM, rmaker@... writes:

<< burker1@... wrote:
>
> "edmohrmann" <eamohrmann@...> writes:
> >
> >     Scruby's 25's are really scaled to fit with Airfix figures
> >   (see Scruby catalog, 1970, page D).  His 25's would really
> >   be the One-inch scale which he introduced I think in '69.
> >  <snip>
> >   Scruby 30's fit pretty well with modern 28's and 'large'
> >   25's, although in some cases looking mal-nourished.
>
> Sorry Ed, but I have to disagree. Scruby's 20mm troops fit in nicely with
> Airfix.  The 25s are a bit bigger.  He also had a 1" scale and they are even
> bigger (close to 30mm).
>
> As best I can recall, his 1" (30mm) figures were for the Thirty Years War.
I
> know that he had a 25mm Franco-Prussian line of figures.

You're misremembering, Bob.  The 30mm's were always labelled as 30's,
and the 20mm's are pretty much true HO (1/87).  The FPW, Mexican War,
and Napoleon in Egypt lines now labelled 25's started out as '1 inch'
figures and were intended to be 1/72 (i.e., similar to Airfix, which
were 1/76), at least acording to the 'Table Top Talk' ads I'm looking at
in several 1967 issues.  By 1979, they were listed in the catalog as
25mm along with the former "Scruby II" Napoleonics and a number of other
ranges.

As far as the 'malnourishment' of Jack's figures, that's because they're
proportioned like real people.

RWM >>

Thanks to everyone who responded.  I would have loved for it to have had
more history behind it.  It would have been nice to research the career of
the brave young Captain, wishing to "throw in" with the toublesome Mrs.
Pedicaris.  Would he have been half as willing to throw in with Ed Asner,
maybe the next version will tell us.  Hollywood has run out of ideas of
late, I expect a remake of Zulu soon with Russell Crowe as Chard, Sean Penn
as Bromhead, with Morgan Freeman as Cetaswayo leading the charge, a minor
re-write of history.

Scott
~back to the shadows from whence I came


----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Chiu" <leopardson@...>
To: "'Colonial Wars List'" <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?


> Wait a minute so the real Raisuli didn't have a Scottish accent?!?!
>
> What a huge disappointment! And after all these years watching the tape,
> my image of the Raisuli has been blown now :-)
>
> Phil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edgington [mailto:edgington@...]
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 5:03 AM
> To: Colonial Wars List
> Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?
>
> Hi, Scott,
>      I understand money did change hands to free Pedicaris.  The
> Americans quietly slipped money to the French, who actually paid off the
>
> Raisuli.  This way, it looked like we weren't treating with a
> kidnapper.  Unfortunately, the word eventually got out.  The American
> elections were over by then,  but it caused problems for the French
> government.
>      Not only did real life not have Candice Bergen, but the Raisuli (in
>
> later photos) looks nothing like Sean Connery.
>      Still a good story!
>
>
>
>       David Edgington
>
>
>
>
>
> ColonialWars Photos section -
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst
>
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>

I agree with both points, although I am not sure that that the first rush of
the inDlu-yengwe would have been strong enough to overrun the garrison with
only  400 - 600 warriors.  The problem for the Zulu was that the impi
arrived piecemeal.  First the inDlu-yengwe and then the rest of the impi.  I
think that this caused a lot of confusion in that I am convinced that the
original plan of the uThulwana and in Dlondhlo was much different than what
happened at different stages during the rest of the battle.

Dennis


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hamilton" <alan_hamiltonuk@...>
To: "Dennis L Bishop" <dbishop21@...>; "Norton, Richard, Prof."
<nortonr@...>; <colonialwars@yahoogroups.com>; "Alex Bagosy"
<matthias_corvinus@...>; "The Angle" <TheAngle@...>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Need some Advice: Wave Attacks


> I agree with Dennis on this.  The Zulu Command at
> Rorke's Drift lost control of the battle very early
> on.  This may have been due to the impetuous nature of
> the first units to arrive making an attack.  Then with
> their battle drills interrupted the commanders could
> not get back to the tactics and could only see one way
> ahead.
>
> The ground was in favour of a Zulu victory but the
> construction of the defences changed this. Without the
> defences RD would have fallen very quickly - maybe in
> the first rush.
>
> Alan
>
>  --- Dennis L Bishop <dbishop21@...> wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> As before, I agree that the Zulu were having a problem
> with coordination from the beginning of the battle.
> My theory is that the initial plan made by the
> uThulwana and inDlondhlo changed due to battlefield
> conditions and the Zulu ended up fighting a battle
> they didn't wish to fight.  In this situation,
> certainly there would be a lot of confusion and
> individual initiatives would dominate the battlefield.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Norton, Richard, Prof.
>   To: Dennis L Bishop ; colonialwars@yahoogroups.com ;
> Alex Bagosy ; The Angle
>   Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 7:11 AM
>   Subject: RE: [ColonialWars] Need some Advice: Wave
> Attacks
>
>
>    << I am not sure about the Wahehe, but I am sure
> that the Zulu at Rorke's did
>   not "mill around." >>
>
>   Oh hell, for the sake of contrariness I just can't
> resist.  While the Zulu at Rorke's Drift were not a
> mob, neither were they automatons moving in
> synchronized ballet-like maneuvers to the will of
> their commanders. (And no, Dennis you did not imply
> that they did.)   Like most - indeed I would argue all
> - soldiers when melee and confusion begin to dominate
> on the battlefield, some *must* have "milled around."
> And I suppose it also depends on what your definition
> of "milling around is."  I don't think it's
> sightseeing or aimless wandering  (although there are
> probably instances of both in combat, humans being the
> contrary beings we are) - rather I think its more a
> case of soldiers trying to make sense of what's going
> on, how to increase their safety or their combat
> effectiveness, find comrades or orient themselves.
> For examples of the behavior I am thinking about I'd
> offer up the French cavalry picking their way among
> the Anglo-allied squares at Waterloo; U.S. infantryman
> on the sands and bluffs of Omaha beach, Confederate
> soldiers who reached the stone wall at Gettysburg,
> elements of the both the 7th cavalry and their
> opposition at Little Big Horn, Zulus fighting in the
> hospital at Rorke's Drift and so on.
>
>
>
>
>                                Rick
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst
>
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Alan,

Thanks for the clarification.  That is exactly what I meant.  I did not mean
that the Zulu were any more adept at night fighting than any other army
might be.  My point was that the Zulu had no objections to fighting in the
dark.

Dennis


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hamilton" <alan_hamiltonuk@...>
To: "Dennis L Bishop" <dbishop21@...>; <colonialwars@yahoogroups.com>;
"The Angle" <TheAngle@...>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Need some Advice: Wave Attacks


> Dennis,
>
> I have to disagree - EVERY army has problems fighting
> at night even now.
>
> I think what you mean is that the Zulu had no
> objections to and were experienced in night fighting.
> With this I agree.  they frequently made night
> approaches, fought night skirmishes not just in 1879.
>
> Alan
>
>  --- Dennis L Bishop <dbishop21@...> wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> I would  disagree.  The Zulu had no problem fighting
> at night.  They fought
> in the dark three times in 1879.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Angle" <TheAngle@...>
> To: <colonialwars@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 8:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Need some Advice: Wave
> Attacks
>
>
> > On "milling around" at Rorke's Drift;
> >
> > Given that most of the battle occurred at night,
> it's hard to imagine how
> at
> > least some portion of the Zulu force could not have
> spent the better
> portion
> > of the fight "milling around" simply trying to
> reconnect with their units
> > and commanders. They weren't trained in night
> fighting and they would have
> > had no communication except by shouted commands,
> which is a terrible
> system
> > when operating on exterior lines.
> >
> > The Angle
> > visit The Colonial Angle at
> http://home.comcast.net/~theangle
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pijl, J.W. van der" <jw.vanderpijl@...>
> > To: "'Norton, Richard, Prof.'"
> <nortonr@...>; "Dennis L Bishop"
> > <dbishop21@...>; <colonialwars@yahoogroups.com>;
> "Alex Bagosy"
> > <matthias_corvinus@...>; "The Angle"
> <TheAngle@...>
> > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 6:15 AM
> > Subject: RE: [ColonialWars] Need some Advice: Wave
> Attacks
> >
> >
> > > > << I am not sure about the Wahehe, but I am sure
> that the Zulu at
> > Rorke's
> > > > did
> > > > not "mill around." >>
> > > >
> > > > Oh hell, for the sake of contrariness I just
> can't resist.  While the
> > Zulu
> > > > at Rorke's Drift were not a mob, neither were
> they automatons moving
> in
> > > > synchronized ballet-like maneuvers to the will
> of their commanders.
> > > [>>>]
> > > I daresay they didn't. If they had, Rorke's Drift
> would probably not
> > > have become the famous event that it is now. It's
> hard to imagine how
> 100
> > > Britons would have stood up to 3000 Zulus
> simultaneously attacking from
> > all
> > > sides, with all the cover the surrounding terrain
> provided.
> > >
> > > I'm convinced that the survivors owed their lives
> to the fact that
> > > no overall command was present and the lower
> Indunas simply did as they
> > saw
> > > fit in their small sector of the battle.
> > >
> > > Jan-Willem
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ColonialWars Photos section -
> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst
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Talking with people, the new Alamo movie coming now in April will have a
strong bearing on future projects that might be considered for movie
remakes.  I think that Turner's approach to "Gettysburg," and less with
"Gods and Generals," has placed some impetus on historical movies.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott" <scottgi@...>
To: "Colonial Wars List" <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?


> Thanks to everyone who responded.  I would have loved for it to have had
> more history behind it.  It would have been nice to research the career of
> the brave young Captain, wishing to "throw in" with the toublesome Mrs.
> Pedicaris.  Would he have been half as willing to throw in with Ed Asner,
> maybe the next version will tell us.  Hollywood has run out of ideas of
> late, I expect a remake of Zulu soon with Russell Crowe as Chard, Sean
Penn
> as Bromhead, with Morgan Freeman as Cetaswayo leading the charge, a minor
> re-write of history.
>
> Scott
> ~back to the shadows from whence I came
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philip Chiu" <leopardson@...>
> To: "'Colonial Wars List'" <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 11:37 AM
> Subject: RE: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?
>
>
> > Wait a minute so the real Raisuli didn't have a Scottish accent?!?!
> >
> > What a huge disappointment! And after all these years watching the tape,
> > my image of the Raisuli has been blown now :-)
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Edgington [mailto:edgington@...]
> > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 5:03 AM
> > To: Colonial Wars List
> > Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?
> >
> > Hi, Scott,
> >      I understand money did change hands to free Pedicaris.  The
> > Americans quietly slipped money to the French, who actually paid off the
> >
> > Raisuli.  This way, it looked like we weren't treating with a
> > kidnapper.  Unfortunately, the word eventually got out.  The American
> > elections were over by then,  but it caused problems for the French
> > government.
> >      Not only did real life not have Candice Bergen, but the Raisuli (in
> >
> > later photos) looks nothing like Sean Connery.
> >      Still a good story!
> >
> >
> >
> >       David Edgington
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
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> >
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>
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Good ideas presented here if one ignores the misidentification of units.
The Mexicans were divided into columns with the most coherent units being
battalions.  For the Wahehe an iviyo is a company, (amaviyo is plural),
ibutho is a regiment (amabutho is plural), and impi is an army (sort of).
Induna is a commander, and izinduna is plural.  Not being picky, but reading
the post using the correct terminology makes it more interesting to me.


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Helber" <majrgen1@...>
To: <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 8:48 PM
Subject: [ColonialWars] Re: Need some Advice: Wave Attacks


> Alex,
>
> In 1986, for the Alamo Sesquicentennial year, at DallasCon, Tom
> Glaser and I did an Alamo Assault game in 15mm that had
> some of the same problems. I gave away copies of the rules,
> and have since seen the game given a number of times at
> conventions over the years, occasionally with somebody else's
> name on them. I'm told it is a convention standard, now.
>
> Since I know little enough about the Alamo (Tom was an expert,
> though) and nothing about the Wahehe, I'll just say what we did,
> and leave you to adapt the system to your game, if you find it
> useful.
>
> The Alamo was in the center of the table. There were four
> Mexican General players, representing the four regiments
> present (one of the Generals also played Santa Anna). Each
> general  came in on a different side of the table within one foot of
> the center. Santa Anna got to say where on that side the
> regiment entered (so could mass force a bit by shifting adjacent
> regiments toward the same corner).
>
> Each regiment had 4 companies of 16 figures each. When a
> figure was killed, he was placed on a Casualty Card which had
> five columns of base-sized squares, one column for each
> company and one for the Reserves, which come in near the end.
> Each column had 16 base sized squares (arranged 2x8),
> numbered 1-16. At #8 was the notation "1st Assault" and at #5
> "2nd Assault". A company's first casualty was placed on square
> 1 and so forth. When a company in the first assault placed a
> figure on square 8, the company began rolling for stragglers
> (half D6) each turn, with that many figures in the company routing
> away. Figures actually inside the walls when the straggler roll
> was made would not rout but fight until killed.
>
> After all the Mexicans in the first assault had been killed or
> straggled (routed), the second assault started, with each
> General having four full companies again. This time, the
> companies began straggler rolls on the 5th casualty.
>
> The third assault began as soon as any Mexican figure on the
> second assault got inside the Alamo. For the third assault, each
> General started a reserve company (16 figures) from anywhere
> on his edge of the table, and Santa Anna got to enter a company
> of his elite Zapadores in addition. He could also bring his
> personal figure onto the table with any reserve company, if he
> wished. I do not remember if the reserve companies were made
> up of the casualties from the other companies, or whether they
> were dedicated figures.
>
> The reserve companies, being fresh, rolled for stragglers after 8
> (not 5) casualties, and the elite Zapadores never rolled. Any
> company Santa Anna was with never straggled and fought at a
> bonus, but if he got killed, every unit immediately started double
> straggler rolls for every remaining turn.
>
> If the Texans had any survivors still holding the fort after all
> Mexicans from the 2nd/3rd assault had been killed or routed
> away, the Mexicans were deemed to be too exhausted and
> demoralized for another assault, and the Texans won.
>
> ADVANTAGES FOR CONVENTION PLAY
> The casualty cards allowed a player to see when he needed to
> start rolling stragglers without tedious percentage calculations.
> All companies were the same in the Alamo game, but for your
> game, some units might have greater staying power than others
> (just prepare different cards) . At whatever level they rout, it is
> easy for the player to see it - when a casualty figure goes on the
> square marked "1st Assault" or "2nd Assault", you roll. This
> system also puts all the casualties back in their proper
> companies on the cards, so no time need be wasted in sorting
> figures between assaults. There are lots of figures on the table,
> so the Mexicans look impressive, but you don't have to take time
> to kill them all, since they start routing away at 50% or 35%
> casualties.
>
> MODIFICATIONS FOR THE WAHEHE
> Since the Wahehe companies probably won't have have easily
> distinguishable uniforms, like the Mexicans, you may need to put
> colored dots in the middle of the bases' rear edges for
> identification. The N'Trlafingi iviyo may be yellow, first company
> has one yellow dot, second, two, etc. Since the Wahehe probably
> were not organized by company within an iviyo, you may want to
> modify the system, or just accept the "companies" as family or
> comrade groupings within the iviyo/impi/whatever.
>
> THE PLAY
> The system worked very well, and went quickly enough to get the
> Alamo's historical three assaults (by fudging the second and
> third together) in 3 hours.  This was partially because each
> company stayed on a movement tray, until it touched the walls of
> the Alamo, whereupon it was free to move anywhere stand by
> stand. It's a great game-speeder just to move the whole tray, and
> it looks great with Mexican regulars, but how applicable it would
> be to irregular natives in your situation, I'm not sure.
>
> For balance and play-length, you'll have to gametest a couple of
> times to fine-tune the numbers (particularly, at how many
> casualties the straggler rolling begins for each assault). In the
> Alamo, we had 6 games, with one Texan victory, so I was
> pleased at the balance (never mind that every Texan player in
> that victory had played in an earlier session and knew the ropes).
> The game generated a lot of enthusiasm. Tom theorized it was
> because each side got to be the winning side for a while - in the
> first assault, the Texans are shooting fish in a barrel and
> inevitably get to have the mini victory of turning back the assault.
> By the third assault, the Mexicans are kicking posterior, and the
> Texans are sweating.
>
> Hope this provides some help.
>
> Good luck.
>
> -- David
>
> ================
>
> --- In ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Bagosy"
> <matthias_corvinus@m...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hullo, gentlemen (and ladies). Have had a bit of a mental block
> in finishing
> > up a scenario.
> >
> > I was wondering if some of my brethren might be able to help
> me. I am
> > running a scenario for the Wahehe War at Cold Wars this year,
> Zelewski's
> > Column. Everything has gone very well in playtests, and thanks
> to Lon at
> > Brigade Games, I now have some exceptional Askaris to fight
> the Wahehe
> > menace.
> >
> > Anyway, I've run into only one major problem. I'm trying to figure
> out how
> > to handle wave attacks, as I do not have enough castings to
> represent every
> > one of the 4,000+ Wahehe warriors present. Historically, there
> was one
> > initial rush, and then a number of Iviyos trickled in over the day,
> > attempting to dislodge the Askari survivors from their positions.
> In
> > general, they milled about, fell back, re-formed, and attacked
> again. Not
> > unlike the four-five separate attacks launched at Rorke's Drift.
> >
> > How do you gentlemen and ladies handle scenarios of this
> kind? Ie: How do
> > you do the mechanic for introducing new waves? I am not sure
> how to do it.
> > Some of the Irregulars have suggested having each Ibutho run
> until it is
> > wiped out, then re-form, attack again, etc.. until it's expended all
> the
> > reserves. This seems to work alright, but it does create an
> artificial
> > situation in which a Wahehe Induna is forced to commit his
> warriors until
> > every one of them is dead to form a new attack.
> >
> > Another attempted fix was to allot each of the Wahehe a
> number of hitpoints
> > equal to the number of men the actual casting represented, so
> that roughly
> > every five hits removes a single Wahehe casting. The problem
> is that, while
> > this works well for shooting, it works very poorly for melee.
> >
> > I have about two hundred Wahehe, and the idea is to divide
> them into four
> > iviyos of fifty men each, with the Wahehe capable of launching
> about four or
> > five attacks before their resources and will to fight is depleted.
> >
> > Would appreciate any thoughts on this. I could do it very simply,
> I'm sure,
> > I just haven't found anything that's totally comfortable for me yet.
> >
> > Believe me, if I could paint and acquire the 4,000 Wahehe, I
> would, but I
> > can't possibly (at least in the near future).
> >
> > If it helps any in your advice, there are approximately seventy
> European and
> > Askari castings opposing them, and they recieve no
> reinforcements. This may
> > or may not include a Maxim with crew (depending upon
> whether or not the
> > Askaris can salvage the gun before it's too late). The Askaris
> are also
> > encumbered by a mule train, cattle, sheep, and porters.
> >
> > I will gladly credit you with your assistance when the game is
> run.
> >
> > -Alex
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "In appreciation of the Transvaal's assurance that they are
> desirous of a
> > peaceful solution of the crisis, the 5th Lancers spent Sunday
> morning at the
> > camp, sharpening their lances and sabres."
> >
> > - Regimental Diary, 5th Lancers
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________
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> > experience.
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>
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Greetings

I am having a minor rationalization of my lead.

I have the following for sale.

Black Tree British
24 figures from the packs British Infantry 1 & 2
All figures based on pennies, primed and part painted khaki  (painted in the
days before I knew better)!
All for $25.00 including postage to US or anywhere else


Black Tree Boers
8 figures from the Boer Commando pack.
All figures based on pennies & primed (grey).
3 Mounted figures with horses not primed.
All for $20.00 including postage to US or anywhere else

Payment by US$ check (I have a US Bank Account)
Please contact me off list if interested

Kelvin White
Oxford, England

Email:   kelvin@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 1/30/04 11:30:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jw.vanderpijl@... writes:

<< Subj:     [ColonialWars] Re: Sword & Flame, wounded
  Date:  1/30/04 11:30:48 PM Pacific Standard Time
  From:  jw.vanderpijl@... (Jan-Willem)
  To:    ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com

  --- In ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com, "gabriel_landowski"
  <gabriel_landowski@y...> wrote:
  > > And when you already have 250 Zulus painted and based, why stop
  > > there.....?
  >
  > I hate to say it, but on a game of over 400 natives I would break
  out
  > the pennies as markers if needed ~ of course I'd work feverishly to
  > get the actual miniatures completed but...

  Egad, Sir! well...I say!....I mean....harrumph!....Well as long as
  you are doing your best...

  But pennies! Really!

  Jan-Willem (convinced that civilization as he knows it has ended
  (again))

  ;-)
   >>


I know.  Standards have gone downhill.  Apparently it is up to the Welshmen
to kiil enough Zulus to replace the pennies.  As if they didn't have enough
problems, now they have to resupply the Zulus.

John the Old Fart Meister

The brain cells aren't working today! One side of the brain says yes BTD are
having a sell the other half doesn't realise that my offerings have to be
cheaper to sell.

So take two

The British as below, are now $20.00 and the Boers $15.00 ....bargain I
reckon.....


Best regards all

Kelvin White
Oxford, England

Email:   kelvin@...


----- Original Message -----
From: Kelvin White
To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 2:33 PM
Subject: OT. For Sale Black Tree British & Boers


Greetings

I am having a minor rationalization of my lead.

I have the following for sale.

Black Tree British
24 figures from the packs British Infantry 1 & 2
All figures based on pennies, primed and part painted khaki  (painted in the
days before I knew better)!
All for $25.00 including postage to US or anywhere else


Black Tree Boers
8 figures from the Boer Commando pack.
All figures based on pennies & primed (grey).
3 Mounted figures with horses not primed.
All for $20.00 including postage to US or anywhere else

Payment by US$ check (I have a US Bank Account)
Please contact me off list if interested

Kelvin White
Oxford, England

Email:   kelvin@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Hollywood has run out of ideas of
>late, I expect a remake of Zulu soon with Russell
Crowe >as Chard, Sean Penn as Bromhead, with Morgan
Freeman as >Cetaswayo leading the charge, a minor
re-write of >history.

No, I'm sure Morgan will show up as the inDuna who
advises against the attack, then when told to shut up
and soldier, overruns Isandhlwana in a heartbeat,
leads his lads on to the Drift and agonizes over the
loses he is suffering while paying tribute to the
bravery of his opponent. He will lead the final
charge, while explaing that one must obey the King's
orders even if he doesn't believe in them, then die
gloroiusly in a HtH with Bromhead, who will kneel to
hear the final words of the brave inDuna, then wonder
just what "Rosebud" means.

I have always wondered why Hollyweird didn't cast the
Duke as Bromhead. " Alright, pilgrims, lets get them
mealie bags in a circle." Hmm. Maybe that's why.

Phil

=====
"One must be careful what one writes and to whom one gives it."
Charlton Heston as Richelieu in "The Three Musketeers"

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http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

With all due respect to list members, I felt that "Gods and Generals" was
utter schlock, from the Ted Turner cameo, to the Confederate-sympathizer
whining, to the ridiculously Gilbert and Sullivan-esque way in which the
characters speak.

My favorite moment is that in which Robert E. Lee is made to look like a
hero when the evil representive of the Federal Government asks him to help
defeat the rebellion.

Oh, and then there's that wonderful moment when the flag of the United
States is ripped down and Stonewall Jackson leads the cadets in cheering.
Nonsense and poppycock!

God, what drivel. I walked out.

Gettysburg, though wasn't bad. A lot more balanced!

Let us hope that the future historical projects, while I don't insist they
be terribly accurate, at least avoid being revisionist (faint hope that).

-Alex




"In appreciation of the Transvaal's assurance that they are desirous of a
peaceful solution of the crisis, the 5th Lancers spent Sunday morning at the
camp, sharpening their lances and sabres."

- Regimental Diary, 5th Lancers



WI

>From: "Dennis L Bishop" <dbishop21@...>
>To: "Colonial Wars List" <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>,"Scott"
><scottgi@...>
>Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 06:28:26 -0600
>
>Talking with people, the new Alamo movie coming now in April will have a
>strong bearing on future projects that might be considered for movie
>remakes.  I think that Turner's approach to "Gettysburg," and less with
>"Gods and Generals," has placed some impetus on historical movies.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Scott" <scottgi@...>
>To: "Colonial Wars List" <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 3:18 AM
>Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?
>
>
> > Thanks to everyone who responded.  I would have loved for it to have had
> > more history behind it.  It would have been nice to research the career
>of
> > the brave young Captain, wishing to "throw in" with the toublesome Mrs.
> > Pedicaris.  Would he have been half as willing to throw in with Ed
>Asner,
> > maybe the next version will tell us.  Hollywood has run out of ideas of
> > late, I expect a remake of Zulu soon with Russell Crowe as Chard, Sean
>Penn
> > as Bromhead, with Morgan Freeman as Cetaswayo leading the charge, a
>minor
> > re-write of history.
> >
> > Scott
> > ~back to the shadows from whence I came
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Philip Chiu" <leopardson@...>
> > To: "'Colonial Wars List'" <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 11:37 AM
> > Subject: RE: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?
> >
> >
> > > Wait a minute so the real Raisuli didn't have a Scottish accent?!?!
> > >
> > > What a huge disappointment! And after all these years watching the
>tape,
> > > my image of the Raisuli has been blown now :-)
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Edgington [mailto:edgington@...]
> > > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 5:03 AM
> > > To: Colonial Wars List
> > > Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?
> > >
> > > Hi, Scott,
> > >      I understand money did change hands to free Pedicaris.  The
> > > Americans quietly slipped money to the French, who actually paid off
>the
> > >
> > > Raisuli.  This way, it looked like we weren't treating with a
> > > kidnapper.  Unfortunately, the word eventually got out.  The American
> > > elections were over by then,  but it caused problems for the French
> > > government.
> > >      Not only did real life not have Candice Bergen, but the Raisuli
>(in
> > >
> > > later photos) looks nothing like Sean Connery.
> > >      Still a good story!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >       David Edgington
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ColonialWars Photos section -
> > http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst
> > >
> > > *** NEW FILE ATTACHMENT LIST ***
> > > ColonialBattles-subscribe@onelist.com
> > > (For battle reports and pictures)
> > >
> > > Community email addresses:
> > > Files - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/files/
> > > Chat - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/chat
> > > Post message: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subscribe: ColonialWars-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > Unsubscribe: ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > List owner: ColonialWars-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > >  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >  ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> > >  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ColonialWars Photos section -
>http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst
> >
> > *** NEW FILE ATTACHMENT LIST ***
> > ColonialBattles-subscribe@onelist.com
> > (For battle reports and pictures)
> >
> > Community email addresses:
> > Files - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/files/
> > Chat - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/chat
> > Post message: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> > Subscribe: ColonialWars-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Unsubscribe: ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > List owner: ColonialWars-owner@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> >  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>ColonialWars Photos section -
>http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst
>
>*** NEW FILE ATTACHMENT LIST ***
>ColonialBattles-subscribe@onelist.com
>(For battle reports and pictures)
>
>Community email addresses:
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>Chat - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/chat
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>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/
>
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_________________________________________________________________
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Phil -

For the past two years, I worked on a "mega-game" to represent the Battle of
Monterrey, 1846. We put it on at a few cons, including Historicon. The game
at Historicon was kind of a disaster, due to a computer crash, but elsewhere
it's gone quite well, and I'm running it twice at Origins this year.
For what it's worth, I do have a few suggestions, and I would be most
willing to answer any questions you might have regarding the war. It is
quite an interesting topic (to me personally anyway), and I'm most happy to
share my notes, research, experience, etc.

However, to the immediate point of your query. First, "The Alamo" and
"Zorro" are not set during the Mexican War. This is a common misconception.
The Alamo took place during the Texan War for Independence (1836-38). The
Zorro tales, if I remember correctly, were originally set in California in
the years prior to the war, though the later tales, including the Antonio
Banderas movie, were I think set in Mexico proper during the 1860s, could be
wrong on that, though.

There are very few reliable orders of battle available for the Mexican War.
The Mexicans tend to under-report their numbers, the Americans tend to
over-report them. The most accessible history of the war is probably K. Jack
Bauers "The Mexican War, 1846-48". It's a bit old-fashioned, but it includes
eye-witness accounts and some really nice maps.

Uniform guides are, with due respect to authors, almost universally flawed .
The best that I have seen is probably the Osprey guide to the subject,
Men-At-Arms #56. It has excellent information regarding uniform facings and
colors for the Mexicans, and some useful bits on the Yanquis.
Don't take it's OOBs too seriously - they are ok, but somewhat flawed. They
tend to place units in battles they never participated in (I think, for
example, that they put Churchills Artillery at Resaca and the Tualancingo
Curassiers at Monterrey, both of which are just really stretching things).

Another good resource is the recent S&T magazine that included the game
"Rough and Ready" (can't think of the number, will dig it up and let you
know if you're interested). It was really very well researched, and included
some good information about the comparative armies (though, in this case, it
was perhaps too critical of the Mexicans, who have a hard enough time as it
is using double sized powder charges and firing their Brown Bess muskets
from the hip... yes, you read that right).

Anyway, I've gotta skitter to a game. Please, by all means, feel free to use
me as a resource. I really find the Mexican War fascinating, probably
because it's so neglected by most. I'm no super-genius-expert, but after
painting a good couple thousand of the little buggers in 28mm (Old Glories,
by the way, though First Corps makes some BEAUTIFUL dudes in 28mm, if you
can get them), and after developing my own ruleset (soon to go to print), I
think I can at least speak with some basic knowledge of the subject.

-Alex




"In appreciation of the Transvaal's assurance that they are desirous of a
peaceful solution of the crisis, the 5th Lancers spent Sunday morning at the
camp, sharpening their lances and sabres."

- Regimental Diary, 5th Lancers



>From: "prhlar" <philiprussell@...>
>To: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [ColonialWars] US-Mexican War 1846-48
>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:32:14 -0000
>
>Could anyone point me in the direction of any good histories of this
>campaign together with appropriate figures in 28mm.
>
>Obviously "The Mask of Zorro" and "The Alamo" are having their effect.
>
>Thanks in anticipation.
>
>regards
>
>Phil
>
>
>ColonialWars Photos section -
>http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst
>
>*** NEW FILE ATTACHMENT LIST ***
>ColonialBattles-subscribe@onelist.com
>(For battle reports and pictures)
>
>Community email addresses:
>Files - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/files/
>Chat - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/chat
>Post message: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
>Subscribe: ColonialWars-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Unsubscribe: ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>List owner: ColonialWars-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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> Egad, Sir! well...I say!....I mean....harrumph!....Well as long as
> you are doing your best... But pennies! Really!

Well, er, yes.... pennies. I'd use the 200 D6 I have, but I think
that is a LITTLE more offensive....

Personally I think a holding pen idea is best. Roll 3D6 and this is
the "launch" number. Once the pen is filled with dead guys it becomes
an active unit with a leader and can now join in the mayhem. Tends to
keep up the presure and keeps those unsightly pennies off of the
table (they ruin photo ops).

Or some variation of this. Keep track of total guys used and when
your body account is all dried up you're done.

> I know.  Standards have gone downhill.  Apparently it is up to the
Welshmen
> to kiil enough Zulus to replace the pennies.  As if they didn't
have enough
> problems, now they have to resupply the Zulus.

Oh heavens no, let me say that I do have my wife at my side to this
day I am convinced it is because I haven't started painting those
1000 wild native savages that I've always wanted.... It's a miracle
that I have assembled several units of 100+ 1/72.

As it is my poor dear keeps a stiff upper lip while humoring me,
holds individual moral sessions with her troops and is not afraid to
disicpline them in public, on the battle field, if they do not
perform up to the standards to which they have been trained.... (And
why did you not take that hill....?).

I think I have asked to to sacrafice enough as it is and those 1000
murdering killers will have to wait..... for now..... until I come up
with a better plan....

Several years ago I developed a simple 'detailed hit location' system
to add realism to combat fire saves and wounding.

Once it has been determined that a 'hit is possible' roll two 6 sided
dice, one colored one white and then consult the following

In general area 1 is head region, 2 is right arm, 3 is body cavity, 4
is left arm, 5 is right leg, and 6 is left leg.

RED WHT
1 1 - Top half of skull (area covered by a helmet)
1 2 - Lower half of skull (rest of head area)
1 3 - Throat or neck
1 4 - Right collar bone/clavical area
1 5 - Sternum or upper center chest
1 6 - left collar bone / clavical
2 1 - right shoulder
2 2 - right upper arm
2 3 - right elbow
2 4 - right forearm
2 5 - right wrist
2 6 - right hand
3 1 - right breast
3 2 - left breast
3 3 - right rib cage/lung
3 4 - left rib cage/lung
3 5 - abdominal wound/guts
3 6 - groin
4 1 - left shoulder
4 2 - left upper arm
4 3 - left elbow
4 4 - left forearm
4 5 - left wrist
4 6 - left hand
5 1 - right hip
5 2 - right upper thigh
5 3 - right knee
5 4 - right calf
5 5 - right shin
5 6 - right foot/ankle
6 1 - left hip
6 2 - left upper thigh
6 3 - left knee
6 4 - left calf
6 5 - left shin
6 6 - left foot ankle

Roll 1D6:
1 - Dies instantly (shock, etc.)
2 - Dies after this game.
3 - Dies after next game.
4 - Severely crippled for life.
5 - Severe wound returns next game.
6 - Light wound, returns to fight at -1 if treated

Rolls of 1-5 need 2 bearers with stretcher or 4 bearers to move at
1D6. A roll of 6 needs 2 bearers until treated then moves at -1.

Medical personel have ratings (1-5) plus any bonus that they must
roll equal to or less than to succeed.

This also gives you a good idea of what is disabled on the person and
if there is the possibility of amputation.

Can anyone please tell me what the like or hate about the rules I'm
growing?

http://www.landowski.info/colonia/

Thanks...

You don't have to worry about me.  I rented the "Dogs and Generals" and
couldn't stand watching it for all the reasons you listed.   I got to the
part about Fredericksburg and called it quits.  Revision is good, revulsion
is bad.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Bagosy" <matthias_corvinus@...>
To: <dbishop21@...>; <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>;
<scottgi@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?


> With all due respect to list members, I felt that "Gods and Generals" was
> utter schlock, from the Ted Turner cameo, to the Confederate-sympathizer
> whining, to the ridiculously Gilbert and Sullivan-esque way in which the
> characters speak.
>
> My favorite moment is that in which Robert E. Lee is made to look like a
> hero when the evil representive of the Federal Government asks him to help
> defeat the rebellion.
>
> Oh, and then there's that wonderful moment when the flag of the United
> States is ripped down and Stonewall Jackson leads the cadets in cheering.
> Nonsense and poppycock!
>
> God, what drivel. I walked out.
>
> Gettysburg, though wasn't bad. A lot more balanced!
>
> Let us hope that the future historical projects, while I don't insist they
> be terribly accurate, at least avoid being revisionist (faint hope that).
>
> -Alex
>
>
>
>
> "In appreciation of the Transvaal's assurance that they are desirous of a
> peaceful solution of the crisis, the 5th Lancers spent Sunday morning at
the
> camp, sharpening their lances and sabres."
>
> - Regimental Diary, 5th Lancers
>
>
>
> WI
>
> >From: "Dennis L Bishop" <dbishop21@...>
> >To: "Colonial Wars List" <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>,"Scott"
> ><scottgi@...>
> >Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?
> >Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 06:28:26 -0600
> >
> >Talking with people, the new Alamo movie coming now in April will have a
> >strong bearing on future projects that might be considered for movie
> >remakes.  I think that Turner's approach to "Gettysburg," and less with
> >"Gods and Generals," has placed some impetus on historical movies.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Scott" <scottgi@...>
> >To: "Colonial Wars List" <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 3:18 AM
> >Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?
> >
> >
> > > Thanks to everyone who responded.  I would have loved for it to have
had
> > > more history behind it.  It would have been nice to research the
career
> >of
> > > the brave young Captain, wishing to "throw in" with the toublesome
Mrs.
> > > Pedicaris.  Would he have been half as willing to throw in with Ed
> >Asner,
> > > maybe the next version will tell us.  Hollywood has run out of ideas
of
> > > late, I expect a remake of Zulu soon with Russell Crowe as Chard, Sean
> >Penn
> > > as Bromhead, with Morgan Freeman as Cetaswayo leading the charge, a
> >minor
> > > re-write of history.
> > >
> > > Scott
> > > ~back to the shadows from whence I came
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Philip Chiu" <leopardson@...>
> > > To: "'Colonial Wars List'" <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 11:37 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Wait a minute so the real Raisuli didn't have a Scottish accent?!?!
> > > >
> > > > What a huge disappointment! And after all these years watching the
> >tape,
> > > > my image of the Raisuli has been blown now :-)
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Edgington [mailto:edgington@...]
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 5:03 AM
> > > > To: Colonial Wars List
> > > > Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Wind and the Lion - Fact or Fiction?
> > > >
> > > > Hi, Scott,
> > > >      I understand money did change hands to free Pedicaris.  The
> > > > Americans quietly slipped money to the French, who actually paid off
> >the
> > > >
> > > > Raisuli.  This way, it looked like we weren't treating with a
> > > > kidnapper.  Unfortunately, the word eventually got out.  The
American
> > > > elections were over by then,  but it caused problems for the French
> > > > government.
> > > >      Not only did real life not have Candice Bergen, but the Raisuli
> >(in
> > > >
> > > > later photos) looks nothing like Sean Connery.
> > > >      Still a good story!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >       David Edgington
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ColonialWars Photos section -
> > > http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst
> > > >
> > > > *** NEW FILE ATTACHMENT LIST ***
> > > > ColonialBattles-subscribe@onelist.com
> > > > (For battle reports and pictures)
> > > >
> > > > Community email addresses:
> > > > Files - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/files/
> > > > Chat - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/chat
> > > > Post message: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subscribe: ColonialWars-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Unsubscribe: ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > List owner: ColonialWars-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > >  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > >  ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> > > >  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ColonialWars Photos section -
> >http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst
> > >
> > > *** NEW FILE ATTACHMENT LIST ***
> > > ColonialBattles-subscribe@onelist.com
> > > (For battle reports and pictures)
> > >
> > > Community email addresses:
> > > Files - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/files/
> > > Chat - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/chat
> > > Post message: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subscribe: ColonialWars-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > Unsubscribe: ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > List owner: ColonialWars-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > >  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >  ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> > >  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >ColonialWars Photos section -
> >http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/lst
> >
> >*** NEW FILE ATTACHMENT LIST ***
> >ColonialBattles-subscribe@onelist.com
> >(For battle reports and pictures)
> >
> >Community email addresses:
> >Files - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/files/
> >Chat - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/chat
> >Post message: ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com
> >Subscribe: ColonialWars-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >Unsubscribe: ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >List owner: ColonialWars-owner@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColonialWars/
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  ColonialWars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> >  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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>

--- In ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com, "prhlar" <philiprussell@b...>
wrote:
> Could anyone point me in the direction of any good histories of
this
> campaign together with appropriate figures in 28mm.

I recommend the Time Life book on the Mexican War.  It is part of
their Western history series, and has tons of illustrations, maps,
etc.

I'm using black/gray colors on Cossack uniforms and headgear for this
period.

Are these right?

Anyone know what Cossack troops were involved in the Far East at the
time?

Phil

prhlar wrote:
>
> Could anyone point me in the direction of any good histories of this
> campaign together with appropriate figures in 28mm.

John Eisenhower's 'So Far From God' is a very good history of the
campaign.  The Brassey's book (entitled 'The Mexican-American War',
IIRC) is good for uniforms and organizations, but the (British) author's
sneering condescension to both sides is awfully annoying.

RWM

BURKER1@... wrote:
>
> I pulled out my 1973-1974 Scruby catalog.  He had several Napoleonic lines
> listed as 30mm (as well as ACW and Colonia), but he also had a 1" line of
> Thirty Years War figures.
>
> You are right that the Table Top Talk (TTT) ads listed the French 2nd Empire
> figures as 1".  I also found an ad for 1" Austrians for 1866.
>
> What's interesting is that the 1973 catalog lists 25mm French and Prussians
> for the Franco-Prussian War but does not list the Austrians.
>
> I'm now wondering if Jack made 1" French 2nd Empire figures and Austrian
> figures and then made separate 25mm lines, or if they are one and the same?
> He was known to start a line of figures and then taking them out of
> production.

Well, I can't speak directly to the FPW figures, but the 1" Mexican War
and Napoleon in Egypt ranges introduced at the same time are the same as
those currently being sold as 25mm.  In fact, there is a battalion of
Sepoys on my painting table right now that's half figures acquired in
1968 and half bought from Historifigs last summer.  The only difference
is the crisper casting of the newer figures.

> I have a couple of his 25mm figures and a couple thousand of his 20mm
> Napoleonic figures.  The 20mm fit in well with the plastic Airfix but the
> 25mm figures are larger.  However, it's possible that the original
> advertising stated that they were compatible with Airfix.

I, too, have lots of the 20's (and a fair number of the 25's).  As far
as the compatibility with Airfix, it wasn't explicitly in the ads, but
there was a general feeling that the 25's were a better fit.

> I'd love to get a photocopy of his 1970 catalog.  Pleaes contact me directly
> if you'd be willing to make a copy for me.  Thanks.

Ed's the guy with the 1970 catalog.  He might be willing.

RWM

Philip Chiu wrote:
>
> Anyone know what Cossack troops were involved in the Far East at the
> time?

It would be the Siberian regiments (e.g., Argunsk, Verkhne-Udinsk,
Nerchinsk, Chitinsk, Amursk, Sibirsk).  I don't know about 1900, but in
1904 none of these regiments carried lances.

RWM

gabriel_landowski wrote:
>
> Several years ago I developed a simple 'detailed hit location' system
> to add realism to combat fire saves and wounding.
>
> Once it has been determined that a 'hit is possible' roll two 6 sided
> dice, one colored one white and then consult the following
>
> In general area 1 is head region, 2 is right arm, 3 is body cavity, 4
> is left arm, 5 is right leg, and 6 is left leg.

Interesting, but the torso is actually a bigger target than the other
areas put together, so it should be hit more often.  As a suggestion,
use a ten- or even twelve-sided die for the red one and any result other
than 1, 2, 4, 5, or 6 is a torso hit.

RWM

> Edgington wrote:
>
>      The U of U has these maps on their on line card catalog
> http://catalog.lib.utah.edu/ipac-cgi/ipac   Do a search for Sakhalin.
> The maps are labeled Northern Karafuto and Southern Karafuto, and are
> 1/50,000 scale (sorry, the names mean nothing to me and I am sincerely
> hoping they apply to someplace on Sakhalin itself)
>
>      If these maps sound like they'd be useful, you might want to
> contact libraries in your area to see if they have the maps or can get
> them in on inter-library loan.

Thanks, David.  I'll try the U of Mn Map Library.

RWM

Ross,

Just for curiousity sake, were regiments like the Chitinsk based upon
settlements like Chita?

Dennis


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross W. Maker" <rmaker@...>
To: <ColonialWars@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ColonialWars] Cossack uniforms in Boxer Rebellion


> Philip Chiu wrote:
> >
> > Anyone know what Cossack troops were involved in the Far East at the
> > time?
>
> It would be the Siberian regiments (e.g., Argunsk, Verkhne-Udinsk,
> Nerchinsk, Chitinsk, Amursk, Sibirsk).  I don't know about 1900, but in
> 1904 none of these regiments carried lances.
>
> RWM
>
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For those who play "The Sword and the Flame" in the Sudan (or another
skirmish set of rules), what sorts of out-of-the-ordinary units do you
include in your games?  And what rules modifications do you make for
these?

Chuck

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