If you are in Michigan I'd love to have you join a Michigan-oriented C&C Yahoo
group. There's no spam on the board. I'd love to have some real players come on
by.
In my spare time not spent working on the d20pfsrd.com website or planning my
Castles & Crusades sessions for U-Con or avoiding working on the Cavernia
Pathfinder setting, I am also working on the following projects. Anyone who
likes is invited to assist in any (or all) of them.
1) http://sites.google.com/site/ccorlandia/ <-- Obviously, this is the C&C
campaign world I've been working on. This is a back-burner project for whenever
my turn to DM comes up again.
2) http://sites.google.com/site/pflite/ <-- This was originally meant to be a
stripped down version of the final Pathfinder rules with the target audience
being younger kids or casual gamers who did not have either the capacity or
interest to learn all of the massively interwoven Pathfinder rules.
3) http://sites.google.com/site/kinnexrpg/ <-- This is my latest project. This
is meant to be an ambitious new game system. If you are interested in helping on
this I implore you to think different. Don't think in terms of D&D, think in
terms of the best and most interesting way of accomplishing some mechanic.
That's it, I just thought I'd let you know what I'm working on and see if anyone
wanted to get involved in any of these.
Email me at j r e y s t @ g m a i l . c o m if so!
I have registered to run a Castles & Crusades game at this falls U-Con in Ann
Arbor Michigan. For those who do not know, U-Con is a fun gaming convention in
the UofM Union Center on the campus in Ann Arbor. It is being held November
13-15 and is an awesome, fun weekend of all sorts of different game.
My game will run in three 4-hour blocks. Anyone can play in any or all of the
blocks. If you start in a block and continue into another you can continue
playing the same PC. Each block will have a clear beginning and end, but are 3
chapters of a larger adventure I have run in my home group.
If you are located relatively near by feel free to stop by and if you get into
my game I can guarantee you will enjoy it!
The game is titled "Wanted: Dead or Alive!" if you decide to sign up for it.
I'm currently converting all of the information from the AD&D1e ediyion of World
of Grayhawk For use with the C&C rules. So far I've begun tackling the deities
of grayhawk and am converting the multi-class rules for demi humans to race
rwstriste classes. For example the Elven Fighter/Magic Useer Becomes the Elven
Champion. Recreating the Monsters from the MM and FF as listed in the encounter
tables should be no problem either, just time consuming in that I must first
cross referense all the ones in Creatures and Treasure first. Any advice? Anyone
altrafy done this? Am I reinventing the wheel here?
The end goal would be to take a party up through levels to establish strongholds
and create their own realms. I'm hoping the upcoming CKG will cover this, If not
I do have a couple of backup systems I've used in other games that should work
with yet more tweeking. I'd welcome any offer for collaboration.
The group that I DM for (currently a Pathfinder campaign) doesn't know it yet
but I'm planning to drop out of the DM's chair soon. I'd like to bring some new
blood and new flavor into this long-time established and well experienced group
of players and I'd also like to get into a C&C campaign.
Are you or someone you know looking for a group of 4-5 mid-30's to early 40's
(veteran) gamers? If so, please send me an email. I'd really love to bring a new
DM into this fold as I've played in all of the other guys games and really want
to try something new. Anyway, email me at jreyst at gmail dot com
(jreyst@...) if you think you are or know that dude. :)
A few friends and I are looking into playing C&C and I was wondering if there
were any active games in Rochester, NY, or any gamers that might be interested
in joining us? Feel free to send me a message here.
Thanks
Pat
Hey folks, I have recently moved to Minneapolis and I am looking to start a C&C
campaign in the area. I am looking for 2-4 players, please let me know if there
is anyone in the area that is interested.
I think the meta-game also extends in a large part to the type of
adventure being written today.
I recently downloaded a lot of submission guidelines from various
adventure publishers with an eye towards doing some professional
writing. The kind of "linear" adventures we played as teens seem to be
disdained by today's publishers. More sandbox type adventures are what
they seem to want. More roleplaying opps. Less hack n' slash.
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Ben Kolls <benkolls@...> wrote:
> Good discussion. I'd like to add some fuel just to keep it rolling.
>
> I certainly agree with what you're saying, I can certainly see the change in
> play style in myself, but you raised some interesting points for discussion:
>
> - I'm seeing this slow play speed in rookie RPGers, not just old vets. When
> I was a new to the hobby, the speed was much faster, probably because of our
> age, and because we loved the combat. What's changed? Have video games
> dampened everyone's lust for wholesale imaginary slaughter?
>
> - Raoni states: "the retro feel exists more when we use the rules then when
> we play the way we did back then, specially because more often than not,
> playing that way isn't satisfying enough now" Then why do we choose for
> retro rules? If we're not trying to emulate the game style we had back in
> the 'old days', why emulate it's rules? Seems to me you'd be trying to get
> some of the 'feel', but not all of it.
>
> Although I'm playing devil's advocate, I certainly understand what you're
> saying. After my latest experience I'm pretty sure that I'll use the system
> again, but I won't be running Keep on the Borderlands.
>
>
The rules were simpler we are more comfortable in changing things in
them then in the new monster sized systems that are published and in
the end, they still play a whole lot faster in combat than most new
games do.
I go retro cause it is simpler and after being with those systems for
years and after so many house rules it feels easier than grabbing D&D
4th edition core books and starting with them.
As for new gamers, I do not notice any change in their behavior
compared to mine back in the age they had.
--
Raoni Cananeia Monteiro
r.cananeia@...
The rules were simpler we are more comfortable in changing things in
them then in the new monster sized systems that are published and in
the end, they still play a whole lot faster in combat than most new
games do.
I go retro cause it is simpler and after being with those systems for
years and after so many house rules it feels easier than grabbing D&D
4th edition core books and starting with them.
As for new gamers, I do not notice any change in their behavior
compared to mine back in the age they had.
--
Raoni Cananeia Monteiro
r.cananeia@...
Retro rules are like retro comfort food, it isn't' exactly the same, but it still brings back the good memories we have associated with it.
Ken
Gygax is to Gaming What Kirby was to comics
Alas poor Elric I was a thousand times more evil then you
WWBYD What would Brigham Young do
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:49 AM , Ben Kolls wrote:
Good discussion. I'd like to add some fuel just to keep it rolling.
I certainly agree with what you're saying, I can certainly see the change in play style in myself, but you raised some interesting points for discussion:
- I'm seeing this slow play speed in rookie RPGers, not just old vets. When I was a new to the hobby, the speed was much faster, probably because of our age, and because we loved the combat. What's changed? Have video games dampened everyone's lust for wholesale imaginary slaughter?
- Raoni states: "the retro feel exists more when we use the rules then when we play the way we did back then, specially because more often than not, playing that way isn't satisfying enough now" Then why do we choose for retro rules? If we're not trying to emulate the game style we had back in the 'old days', why emulate it's rules? Seems to me you'd be trying to get some of the 'feel', but not all of it.
Although I'm playing devil's advocate, I certainly understand what you're saying. After my latest experience I'm pretty sure that I'll use the system again, but I won't be running Keep on the Borderlands.
I too enjoy the old school feel. It has a magic too it. BUT I am alas getting much older and wiser.
Can't get my people to try the old stuff or C&C as we are having a blast with the 4th as well. Strangely enough the 4th "feels" like the old basic set at certain times.
--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Julian Bernick <julian_bernick@...> wrote:
From: Julian Bernick <julian_bernick@...> Subject: Re: [CandC_Society] Speed of play in retro gaming To: CandC_Society@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 9:03 AM
My two cents:
I had a similar experience when we recently played Steading of the Hill Giants with the old AD&D rules. There wasn't much roleplay, but we were extremely careful in our strategy and tactics for scouting the steading and getting in, etc. We still managed 10-12 encounters in 5.5 hours, but there was a lot of thinking, planning etc.
That's entirely supported by old-school play. Gygax always said that in a challenging adventure, good players use all their resources, mental and in-game, to overcome the challenges. (We didn't all play like that when we were 12, for obvious reasons). But now that we are older and wiser, we can game this stuff like it was meant to be, which I found very rewarding.
I am playing and enjoying some 4E DnD right now, and it has some enjoyable qualities too, but it's still amazing how much faster the old games run.
--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Ben Kolls <benkolls@...> wrote:
From: Ben Kolls <benkolls@...> Subject: [CandC_Society] Speed of play in retro gaming To: CandC_Society@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 7:23 AM
Hi to anyone who is still active in this group.
I've been running a lot of sessions of C&C lately, and I've come across an interesting observation. I'm wondering how you all feel about it.
My initial decade of gaming were heavily based in Moldvay Basic and Rules Cyclopedia D&D, where my friends and I would wail through 20 or 30 adventure encounters in an afternoon session. It was good fun, and although immature, we still wove together some pretty good stories.
I picked up C&C, as I felt it would have the same speed and ease of play (as opposed to the crunch of 3.X). Generally speaking, it does. Combat is quick and straightforward, and so are the 'skill' rules. After a couple of tryout sessions, I decided to run an old-school adventure to give my players the full retro feel. I dusted off my copy of the 1E AD&D Ghost Tower of Inverness, modified it enough to camouflage the original story, and began to run it. This adventure was originally created to be run at tournaments, which I guess were 4 to 8 hour sessions at gaming conventions.
After ~12 hours of play, my group had barely covered 20% of the printed material. Granted, I didn't tell them there was any kind of time limit, but I still found this extremely slow.
This is obviously not a fault in the C&C system, but a statement on the way that we now play. In the case of this group (which is a different group from those D&D players years ago), they are risk-averse, suspicious, and metagame heavily, spending a lot of time trying to 'figure out' the dungeon ecology or what must obviously be some plot. Taking the adventure on directly seems to have gone the way of the dinosaur, even for rookie players with very little game experience.
Is this an evolution of the RP gamer in the last 20 years, or is this just my group?
Good discussion. I'd like to add some fuel just to keep it rolling.
I certainly agree with what you're saying, I can certainly see the change in play style in myself, but you raised some interesting points for discussion:
- I'm seeing this slow play speed in rookie RPGers, not just old vets. When I was a new to the hobby, the speed was much faster, probably because of our age, and because we loved the combat. What's changed? Have video games dampened everyone's lust for wholesale imaginary slaughter?
- Raoni states: "the retro feel exists more when we use the rules then when we play the way we did back then, specially because more often than not, playing that way isn't satisfying enough now" Then why do we choose for retro rules? If we're not trying to emulate the game style we had back in the 'old days', why emulate it's rules? Seems to me you'd be trying to get some of the 'feel', but not all of it.
Although I'm playing devil's advocate, I certainly understand what you're saying. After my latest experience I'm pretty sure that I'll use the system again, but I won't be running Keep on the Borderlands.
Subject: Re: [CandC_Society] Speed of play in retro gaming
I agree, and well said ken
Gygax is to Gaming What Kirby was to comics
Alas poor Elric I was a thousand times more evil then you
WWBYD What would Brigham Young do
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:14 AM , Raoni Monteiro wrote:
> I believe there is one part of the retro feel we can't reproduce any > more: we did not care much for deep roleplaying back then, we were > young, we wanted conflict and the only way we got satisfied with > conflict was martial conflict. > > The systems supported fast solution to that, we could do a great > number of combats in one session and move on to the area of the next > one, most of my oldest game memories are of timely cast spells, > evocative images of monsters and and their abilities and the end > result of these inumerous images. > > As a rule we take a lot longer between combats now cause players > roleplay among themselves a lot, they want scenario descriptions at > all times and GMs tend to provide descriptions of everything, we > rarely ever like the approach of fast forwarding through an entire > zone or travel any more, it is not all about the end of the road, we > care a lot more about how we get there now. > > I believe it is a change in the way we play the game and not the game > itself, the retro feel exists more when we use the rules then when we > play the way we did back then, specially because more often than not, > playing that way isn't satisfying enough now, we want more, we want to > court princesses as much as we want to hear the king bable on about > the menace of his kingdom. > > There is no save the princess from the evil dragon adventures any > more, if you try to do one players insert intrigue and politics into > the mix by searching for collaborators of the dragon and the like. > > The game isn't that simple any more, simply because our own ideas and > thoughts are not that simple any more. > > Just how I see that. > > -- > Raoni Cananeia Monteiro > r.cananeia@gmail.com > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
I had a similar experience when we recently played Steading of the Hill Giants with the old AD&D rules. There wasn't much roleplay, but we were extremely careful in our strategy and tactics for scouting the steading and getting in, etc. We still managed 10-12 encounters in 5.5 hours, but there was a lot of thinking, planning etc.
That's entirely supported by old-school play. Gygax always said that in a challenging adventure, good players use all their resources, mental and in-game, to overcome the challenges. (We didn't all play like that when we were 12, for obvious reasons). But now that we are older and wiser, we can game this stuff like it was meant to be, which I found very rewarding.
I am playing and enjoying some 4E DnD right now, and it has some enjoyable qualities too, but it's still amazing how much faster the old games run.
--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Ben Kolls <benkolls@...> wrote:
From: Ben Kolls <benkolls@...> Subject: [CandC_Society] Speed of play in retro gaming To: CandC_Society@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 7:23 AM
Hi to anyone who is still active in this group.
I've been running a lot of sessions of C&C lately, and I've come across an interesting observation. I'm wondering how you all feel about it.
My initial decade of gaming were heavily based in Moldvay Basic and Rules Cyclopedia D&D, where my friends and I would wail through 20 or 30 adventure encounters in an afternoon session. It was good fun, and although immature, we still wove together some pretty good stories.
I picked up C&C, as I felt it would have the same speed and ease of play (as opposed to the crunch of 3.X). Generally speaking, it does. Combat is quick and straightforward, and so are the 'skill' rules. After a couple of tryout sessions, I decided to run an old-school adventure to give my players the full retro feel. I dusted off my copy of the 1E AD&D Ghost Tower of Inverness, modified it enough to camouflage the original story, and began to run it. This adventure was originally created to be run at tournaments, which I guess were 4 to 8 hour sessions at gaming conventions.
After ~12 hours of play, my group had barely covered 20% of the printed material. Granted, I didn't tell them there was any kind of time limit, but I still found this extremely slow.
This is obviously not a fault in the C&C system, but a statement on the way that we now play. In the case of this group (which is a different group from those D&D players years ago), they are risk-averse, suspicious, and metagame heavily, spending a lot of time trying to 'figure out' the dungeon ecology or what must obviously be some plot. Taking the adventure on directly seems to have gone the way of the dinosaur, even for rookie players with very little game experience.
Is this an evolution of the RP gamer in the last 20 years, or is this just my group?
I'd agree heartily here! I think we'd have a lot more encounters and combats if there wasn't so much of our time spent gabbing about Watchmen or boardgames or, God help me, "Lost". But what we get together for is to spend time together and have fun. The number of combats isn't so important to us. Last weeks session, however, we only had one big combat and it was generally bad rolling and character death that slowed things down and not so much the way the game is constructed.
I think it is the evolution of the group. Not just your group but most groups and players who have been playing for a long time. In My current group, which has been together about 14 years, we tend to only have 3 or
4 big encounters for the session, and spend more time role playing or just kibitzing. One of the things we like about C&C is how fast the combats go for the most part, so that combat doesn't become a bit
weighty thing. Ken
Gygax is to Gaming What Kirby was to comics
Alas poor Elric I was a thousand times more evil then you
WWBYD What would Brigham Young do
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:06 AM , Ben Kolls wrote:
> Hi to anyone who is still active in this group. > > I've been running a lot of sessions of C&C lately, and I've come
> across an interesting observation. I'm wondering how you all feel > about it. > > My initial decade of gaming were heavily based in Moldvay Basic and > Rules Cyclopedia D&D, where my friends and I would wail through 20 or
> 30 adventure encounters in an afternoon session. It was good fun, and > although immature, we still wove together some pretty good stories. > > I picked up C&C, as I felt it would have the same speed and ease of
> play (as opposed to the crunch of 3.X). Generally speaking, it does. > Combat is quick and straightforward, and so are the 'skill' rules. > After a couple of tryout sessions, I decided to run an old-school
> adventure to give my players the full retro feel. I dusted off my copy > of the 1E AD&D Ghost Tower of Inverness, modified it enough to > camouflage the original story, and began to run it. This adventure was
> originally created to be run at tournaments, which I guess were 4 to 8 > hour sessions at gaming conventions. > > After ~12 hours of play, my group had barely covered 20% of the > printed material. Granted, I didn't tell them there was any kind of
> time limit, but I still found this extremely slow. > > This is obviously not a fault in the C&C system, but a statement on > the way that we now play. In the case of this group (which is a
> different group from those D&D players years ago), they are > risk-averse, suspicious, and metagame heavily, spending a lot of time > trying to 'figure out' the dungeon ecology or what must obviously be
> some plot. Taking the adventure on directly seems to have gone the way > of the dinosaur, even for rookie players with very little game > experience. > > Is this an evolution of the RP gamer in the last 20 years, or is this
> just my group?
I agree, and well said
ken
Gygax is to Gaming What Kirby was to comics
Alas poor Elric I was a thousand times more evil then you
WWBYD What would Brigham Young do
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:14 AM , Raoni Monteiro wrote:
> I believe there is one part of the retro feel we can't reproduce any
> more: we did not care much for deep roleplaying back then, we were
> young, we wanted conflict and the only way we got satisfied with
> conflict was martial conflict.
>
> The systems supported fast solution to that, we could do a great
> number of combats in one session and move on to the area of the next
> one, most of my oldest game memories are of timely cast spells,
> evocative images of monsters and and their abilities and the end
> result of these inumerous images.
>
> As a rule we take a lot longer between combats now cause players
> roleplay among themselves a lot, they want scenario descriptions at
> all times and GMs tend to provide descriptions of everything, we
> rarely ever like the approach of fast forwarding through an entire
> zone or travel any more, it is not all about the end of the road, we
> care a lot more about how we get there now.
>
> I believe it is a change in the way we play the game and not the game
> itself, the retro feel exists more when we use the rules then when we
> play the way we did back then, specially because more often than not,
> playing that way isn't satisfying enough now, we want more, we want to
> court princesses as much as we want to hear the king bable on about
> the menace of his kingdom.
>
> There is no save the princess from the evil dragon adventures any
> more, if you try to do one players insert intrigue and politics into
> the mix by searching for collaborators of the dragon and the like.
>
> The game isn't that simple any more, simply because our own ideas and
> thoughts are not that simple any more.
>
> Just how I see that.
>
> --
> Raoni Cananeia Monteiro
> r.cananeia@...
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
I think it is the evolution of the group. Not just your group but most
groups and players who have been playing for a long time. In My current
group, which has been together about 14 years, we tend to only have 3 or
4 big encounters for the session, and spend more time role playing or
just kibitzing. One of the things we like about C&C is how fast the
combats go for the most part, so that combat doesn't become a bit
weighty thing.
Ken
Gygax is to Gaming What Kirby was to comics
Alas poor Elric I was a thousand times more evil then you
WWBYD What would Brigham Young do
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:06 AM , Ben Kolls wrote:
> Hi to anyone who is still active in this group.
>
> I've been running a lot of sessions of C&C lately, and I've come
> across an interesting observation. I'm wondering how you all feel
> about it.
>
> My initial decade of gaming were heavily based in Moldvay Basic and
> Rules Cyclopedia D&D, where my friends and I would wail through 20 or
> 30 adventure encounters in an afternoon session. It was good fun, and
> although immature, we still wove together some pretty good stories.
>
> I picked up C&C, as I felt it would have the same speed and ease of
> play (as opposed to the crunch of 3.X). Generally speaking, it does.
> Combat is quick and straightforward, and so are the 'skill' rules.
> After a couple of tryout sessions, I decided to run an old-school
> adventure to give my players the full retro feel. I dusted off my copy
> of the 1E AD&D Ghost Tower of Inverness, modified it enough to
> camouflage the original story, and began to run it. This adventure was
> originally created to be run at tournaments, which I guess were 4 to 8
> hour sessions at gaming conventions.
>
> After ~12 hours of play, my group had barely covered 20% of the
> printed material. Granted, I didn't tell them there was any kind of
> time limit, but I still found this extremely slow.
>
> This is obviously not a fault in the C&C system, but a statement on
> the way that we now play. In the case of this group (which is a
> different group from those D&D players years ago), they are
> risk-averse, suspicious, and metagame heavily, spending a lot of time
> trying to 'figure out' the dungeon ecology or what must obviously be
> some plot. Taking the adventure on directly seems to have gone the way
> of the dinosaur, even for rookie players with very little game
> experience.
>
> Is this an evolution of the RP gamer in the last 20 years, or is this
> just my group?
I believe there is one part of the retro feel we can't reproduce any
more: we did not care much for deep roleplaying back then, we were
young, we wanted conflict and the only way we got satisfied with
conflict was martial conflict.
The systems supported fast solution to that, we could do a great
number of combats in one session and move on to the area of the next
one, most of my oldest game memories are of timely cast spells,
evocative images of monsters and and their abilities and the end
result of these inumerous images.
As a rule we take a lot longer between combats now cause players
roleplay among themselves a lot, they want scenario descriptions at
all times and GMs tend to provide descriptions of everything, we
rarely ever like the approach of fast forwarding through an entire
zone or travel any more, it is not all about the end of the road, we
care a lot more about how we get there now.
I believe it is a change in the way we play the game and not the game
itself, the retro feel exists more when we use the rules then when we
play the way we did back then, specially because more often than not,
playing that way isn't satisfying enough now, we want more, we want to
court princesses as much as we want to hear the king bable on about
the menace of his kingdom.
There is no save the princess from the evil dragon adventures any
more, if you try to do one players insert intrigue and politics into
the mix by searching for collaborators of the dragon and the like.
The game isn't that simple any more, simply because our own ideas and
thoughts are not that simple any more.
Just how I see that.
--
Raoni Cananeia Monteiro
r.cananeia@...
I've been running a lot of sessions of C&C lately, and I've come across an interesting observation. I'm wondering how you all feel about it.
My initial decade of gaming were heavily based in Moldvay Basic and Rules Cyclopedia D&D, where my friends and I would wail through 20 or 30 adventure encounters in an afternoon session. It was good fun, and although immature, we still wove together some pretty good stories.
I picked up C&C, as I felt it would have the same speed and ease of play (as opposed to the crunch of 3.X). Generally speaking, it does. Combat is quick and straightforward, and so are the 'skill' rules. After a couple of tryout sessions, I decided to run an old-school adventure to give my players the full retro feel. I dusted off my copy of the 1E AD&D Ghost Tower of Inverness, modified it enough to camouflage the original story, and began to run it. This adventure was originally created to be run at tournaments, which I guess were 4 to 8 hour sessions at gaming conventions.
After ~12 hours of play, my group had barely covered 20% of the printed material. Granted, I didn't tell them there was any kind of time limit, but I still found this extremely slow.
This is obviously not a fault in the C&C system, but a statement on the way that we now play. In the case of this group (which is a different group from those D&D players years ago), they are risk-averse, suspicious, and metagame heavily, spending a lot of time trying to 'figure out' the dungeon ecology or what must obviously be some plot. Taking the adventure on directly seems to have gone the way of the dinosaur, even for rookie players with very little game experience.
Is this an evolution of the RP gamer in the last 20 years, or is this just my group?