More like "village idiot" in Packrats case...but at least he called it right.
He's usually right on those 50-50 things at least half of the time.:)


Just kiddin Packy...you know I luv ya.
DEW



-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Babak Talebi" <babaktalebi@...>
Well -

Thank you all. I believe this question is now settled (well, until the next
time it is asked). I am so glad to have such an informed community of
'villiage elders' to help out in these circumstances. The order then is
considered *Valid* and the imaginary unit in Spain dislodged :-P

I want to thank Nathan, Steve, Luis, Doug Kent, and Packrat who all
responded to this quesion quickly.

ps. I still wont tell you which side of the argument I fell on.

Babak

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Douglas Kent <diplomacyworld@...>wrote:

> This rules question comes up quite frequently. But it has been settled
> numerous times. There are two issues at work here. F Gas **can** support
> any move into Spain (and yes Luis, Realpolitik shows it as successful, not
> void, although that should not be your absolute judge on the subject). This
> is because F Gas can move to Spain. The logic behind this is F Gas is
> capable of disrupting the defenses of Spain, because it can move there.
> Coasts are not of importance in this matter.
>
> The confusion comes in that the reverse is NOT true. F Spa(sc) cannot
> support a move into Gascony. This is because F Spa(sc) cannot move to
> Gascony. So it cannot disrupt Gascony's defenses.
>
> If you can move to the province (Coasts are not separate provinces) you can
> support a move into it or support the unit to hold.
>
> However, F Gas cannot support F Spa(sc) to Mar. Because it cannot move
> there.
>
> As Luis said, you can generally use Realpolitik for this. His only mistake
> is saying the Realpolitik result is Void. It is not. The support
> succeeds. Go run it, Luis.
>
> Of this rule I am 100% secure.
>
>
>
>
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *How can you survive without Helpful Kitty merchandise? **
> http://www.cafepress.com/helpfulkitty*<http://www.cafepress.com/helpfulkitty>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 8/3/08, Luis <lialdamiz@...>* wrote:
>
> From: Luis <lialdamiz@...>
> Subject: Re: [CAT23-Ngame] A rules questions
> To: "Babak Talebi" <babaktalebi@...>
> Cc: "1200group" <CAT23-1200@yahoogroups.com>, Cat23-ngame@yahoogroups.com,
> "Douglas Kent" <diplomacyworld@...>, dipknight@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 5:31 AM
>
> *Void*. Gascony does not border Spain/sc and you can only support into
> provinces you are able to move in directly; for fleet puprposes, that
> affects to "semi-provinces" (coasts) too. Would it be A Gas S... then it
> would be perfectly valid.
>
> In doubt (and only for Standard Dip), run Realpolitik and see what happens.
> In this case it's void.
>
> Luis.
>
>
> Babak Talebi wrote:
>
> Friends -
>
> Two dip players of some experience have come to a disagreement on a rules
> question. If you could shed light on this situation, it would be most
> appreciated.
>
> *The Situation:*
>
> F Por to Spa(sc)
> F Gas S F Por to Spa(sc)
>
> *The Question:*
> **
> is the order for F Gas *Void* or *Valid*
>
> *The Rules:*
>
> On page 7 in the 4th edition of the rules (
> http://www.diplomac y-archive. com/resources/ rulebooks/ 2000AH4th.
pdf<http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/rulebooks/2000AH4th.pdf>)
> two
>
> relevant quotes can be found...
>
> 1) "A fleet that can move to a province with two separate coasts (A fleet
> in the Mid-Atlantic for example) can support another Army or Fleet into
> that
> province (in this case Spain) without regard to separate coastlines." (2nd
> paragraph - 2nd column)
>
> 2) "The province to which a unit is providing support must be one to which
> the supporting unit could have legally moved during that turn. ...Likewise
> a
> Fleet in Rome could not support a unit's move to Venice because, although
> adjacent by land, the Fleet can not move to Venice from Rome." (1st
> paragraph - 2nd column)
>
> *The Arguments:*
> **
> one reading of these rules is that "If you can move to a province you can
> support ANY action in that province. period". ie - the fleet in Gas can
> support Por to Spa(sc) because it can itself move to Spa thus making the
> support order *Valid*.
>
> the second reading is that since Spa(sc) is not a province that the
> supporting unit (F Gas) 'could have legally moved' to, it is thus an
> illegal
> support and therefore *Void*.
>
> I leave this earth-shattering question to these august bodies of wisdom on
> Cat23 and look forward to reading various judicious opinions on the
> matter. Has this been resolved elsewhere?
>
> I am told by my fellow diplomacy player that he is 100% positive of his
> position and since I hold him and his experience in high regard, I am
> inclined to agree with him - but felt that due to my minor doubt, I should
> consult with the rest of the village elders first. (ps. I still have not
> told you all which position I have taken in this)
>
> Babak
>
> .
>
>
>
>
>

--
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"YOU have the power!"
~ Howard Dean M.D.
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