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"Battle of Zama" scenario   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #32485 of 32779 |
Re: [ARMATI] Re: "Battle of Zama" scenario

Ash,

I'm not sure Hannibal did expect the Elephants to win anything.  I think this is
more of a Roman slant on their superiorty, and the backwardness of the
Carthaginians - using Elephants, of all things, how quaint.

I think Hannibal expected the Elephants to soak up a bit of Roman energy, and
the next wave of Celts to do the same - that should exhaust the Hastatii. 
Then his levies were to go in and wear down the Principes a little. 
All expendable troops - and I think a good case for being non key or half BP  in
this scenario.
Finally,  his veterans would beat the Triarii and the already tired principes,
and that would be the battle won. 

He expected parity on the flanks with his cavalry, of course - he did know know
about the Numidians fighting with the Romans until the battle started - and nor
did he expect the Triarii to come around the flanks of the Roman line.  Had he
done so, he may well have put the elephants out forther to the wings

What he didn't expect, however was the elephants and expendables to try to fight
their way through his own men to get the heck out of there when it went wrong.

That's how I see it, anyway (and hence, why its a much more interesting battle
to look than some others).

Mark

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Fri Jul 3, 2009 3:36 pm

mark_grindla...
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Message #32485 of 32779 |
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Sorry to disagree. ... It is very clear from the historical battle that the elephants played a huge role. they represent 'how' Hannibal hoped to win it. The...
ashley.solo
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Jul 3, 2009
3:06 pm

Ash, I'm not sure Hannibal did expect the Elephants to win anything.  I think this is more of a Roman slant on their superiorty, and the backwardness of the...
Mark Grindlay
mark_grindla...
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Jul 3, 2009
3:36 pm

... . Absolutely true ... but I would say play the scenario and then see what you think afterwards. Would love to hear your feedback. And then maybe play it...
emanfpc
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Jul 3, 2009
3:51 pm

I played the scenario with a friend yesterday I slightly twisted some of the conditions of the scenario 1) The elephant are non key 2) Break point is assessed...
AUGER Vincent
auger_1964
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Jul 15, 2009
1:10 pm

Hi Vincent, A Shame about the foot to the flank move. Would it have played differently if the triarii had been forced to remain in the third line ( ok, second)...
mark.grindlay@...
mark_grindla...
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Jul 15, 2009
5:51 pm

Some more comments below Best regards Vincent ... The rule allows it and my opponent, not being well versed in history, just used the rules to his best...
AUGER Vincent
auger_1964
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Jul 16, 2009
9:26 am

Steve may object here to a bit of proseletysation, but Art's Tactica 2 use a slightly different mechanism for command divisions. A nominal 'centre' figure is...
Mark Grindlay
mark_grindla...
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Jul 16, 2009
10:41 am

Hi Vincent, well I'm absolutely thrilled that you got a chance to play the scenario, and from this long report you wrote up I assume you had a fun time...
emanfpc
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Jul 16, 2009
12:17 pm

I played the scenario again today with the following changes 1) The elephant are non key 2) Break point is 8 for both armies, seen as a whole 3) All Triarii...
AUGER Vincent
auger_1964
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Aug 15, 2009
6:19 pm

Vincent, Thanks for sharing your experience with Zama. Even in defeat, it seems that you enjoyed the battle. When news first circulated (rumor really, until...
Chris Hahn
centurion5790
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Aug 15, 2009
11:08 pm

I love the historical reconstitution aspect of this scenario. It covers both the first phase of the battle (the initial sacrificial charge of the elephants)...
AUGER Vincent
auger_1964
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Aug 16, 2009
8:04 am

... . Hi Vincent, The main thing I am happy to hear is that you had fun playing it, is it perfect, no (we pulled it together & only play tested it once on our...
emanfpc
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Aug 16, 2009
11:46 am

Vincent, Without intending to sound full of myself, an article about my experiment and experience with wargaming Zama has been accepted by the editor of...
Chris Hahn
centurion5790
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Aug 16, 2009
1:31 pm

I played the scenario again on Friday evening The complete conditions of the revised scenario are posted in the file section along with emanfpc's initial file....
auger_1964
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Sep 6, 2009
11:12 pm

Monsieur Vincent, I think, by sheer experience, you are becoming out resident expert on Zama! Thank you for continuing to share your trials and triumphs with...
Chris Hahn
centurion5790
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Sep 10, 2009
12:42 am

Hi, i have a question concerning the Breakoff Rule. As an example, I have 3 Warband units in Combat against heavy infantry. All 3 Units do NOT inflict a BP and...
Arno Schmidtke
rolinckfan
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Jul 7, 2009
1:49 pm

4.1.4 a A voluntary Split that results in an Initiative of lower than "0" is prohibited. Involuntary Splits from enemy action (Missile Fire, Melee, or Melee...
Stibix
streef2001
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Jul 7, 2009
2:30 pm

The link <http://www.tiny-soldiers.com> www.tiny-soldiers.com everyone is welcome … some discussions are in english J Von: ARMATI@yahoogroups.com...
arno schmidtke
rolinckfan
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Jul 7, 2009
9:09 pm

Hi Arno, My interpretation is that since you want to break off the entire division, it is an involuntary split. Rob ... From: Arno Schmidtke To:...
Robert W Jones
light.colonel
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Jul 7, 2009
3:25 pm

In a message dated 7/7/2009 6:49:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, arno@... writes: I interpret the rules as “Yes†and my army initiative could in...
sfp55@...
steveatglobpro
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Jul 7, 2009
5:26 pm

Steve, What if the entire division passes the break off roll and is moved back? That looks legal to me, what your advocating is that you can not break off...
Robert W Jones
light.colonel
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Jul 7, 2009
7:31 pm

In a message dated 7/7/2009 12:32:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ltcjones@... writes: What if the entire division passes the break off roll and is...
sfp55@...
steveatglobpro
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Jul 7, 2009
11:09 pm

Well .. the "check" if a split will occur is AFTER you have done the breakoffs . will you move the units back, if one unit didn't break off? Or will you put a...
arno schmidtke
rolinckfan
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Jul 7, 2009
11:24 pm

Whilst the attempt at Break-Off is 'voluntary' the outcome of the test is 'involuntary' i.e, dependant upon the dice. So IMHO the rules are clear ... you can...
mark584036
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Jul 8, 2009
10:42 pm

I fully support this view. The rules explicitly allows initiative to fall lower than 0 or 1 with break-offs (see 2nd paragraph at top of page 9). I have always...
AUGER Vincent
auger_1964
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Jul 14, 2009
10:24 pm

I still disagree. :-) ... From: sfp55@... To: ARMATI@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [ARMATI] Breakoff Question In a...
Robert W Jones
light.colonel
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Jul 7, 2009
11:20 pm

In a message dated 7/1/2009 12:39:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ashley.solo@... writes: anyone using Armati 2 lists as a start point will have them as...
sfp55@...
steveatglobpro
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Jul 1, 2009
10:43 pm

... Yes, Steve, I get it. I don't play in tourneys and seldom use points. Emanpf's Zama scenario which is in the files section is equal points with elephants...
ashley.solo
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Jul 3, 2009
3:13 pm

In a message dated 7/3/2009 8:36:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mark.grindlay@... writes: I'm not sure Hannibal did expect the Elephants to win...
sfp55@...
steveatglobpro
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Jul 13, 2009
5:54 pm

In a message dated 7/16/2009 3:41:46 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mark.grindlay@... writes: Steve may object here to a bit of proseletysation, but...
sfp55@...
steveatglobpro
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Jul 16, 2009
6:13 pm
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