In a message dated 1/3/2009 4:56:30 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rodger.w@... writes:
8) Double Frontage LI and LHI
Expansion of LI and LHI into two sections with no other change to
lists or points
S: No. LI and LHI represent peltasts, and their type, if they skirmish,
they are LI, but they still must have an ascendency if they melee
skirmishers, if they melee HI they are LHI. They are too unwieldy and useless
if two
sections across.

LI should also be
>Much ink spilt.
Seems to be coming down on the side of single frontage and
a) all LHI key
b) all LI low FV (most 2, some 3) and may act as SI in maneuver and
c) huge reduction of the troops types in the lists that are
not `light' armies OR
d) LHI disappear and may be fielded as either Key COH or FT, or non
key 2 LI (Fv3 or 2). This (i.e `d') needs a lot more debate; it may
well work for late Romans etc but probably does not in other periods
and how does it translate to light armies?
S: I believe that LHI should always be key.

9) Echelon
HI/COH/FT etc may still deploy in Echelon but there are no benefits
to it except for current Roman and Carthaginian tactics.
Therefore 'modifies the effects of Impetus as if it were Deployed in
Depth' in respect to p6 `Echelon Divisional Unit Arrangement'
paragraph 4 which begins `A HI Unit in a Block Deployment..parag
deleted.
With the exception of 2) and 11) all other rules on Echelon remain
the same.

>Seems fine.
There has been an additional idea playetested where WB are be allowed
to deploy in echelon and, if stationary, they may brace against
cavalry (this worked well in a Rugi Vs Odovacer game).

S: I don’t think they would have the discipline to do this for long.

10) Rear firing
Add rule 5.13 `any HI or heavy mounted unit receiving fire from a unit
entirely behind the rear line of the unit subtracts 1 from its PROT
value against that fire to simulate the `demoralising morale effect.'

S: And the fact that armor usually faces front.
We have been playing with this for years. Makes
horse archers in the rear something to worry about.

11) SI 'Divisional Echelon (Block) Tactics' Restrictions
Delete 6.2.2

>General agreement on this.

12) Warband 2D6 Impetus Rolls
Warband roll 2D6's on first round of melee with opponents they may
claim impetus against and choose the best D6 roll for melee
calculation.

>General agreement on this but debate on whether deep WB should get
it.
S: No shallow Celtic only. Germanic Kiels tend to concentrate on one area
of the line. This is represented by the depth of the line, allowing two
wedges to concentrate on one line.

13a) Flank/Rear Attacks
Change 7.10 to read `Flank Rear Attacks'. Include 7.10.1, 7.10.2.
7.10.3 and rename them to `Flank/Rear Attacks'. Change paras to read:

NOTE: 7.9.1 Loss of Impetus (p23) point 1 and 7.10.1 "consequences of
being flanked" should be read with the new definition of Flank/Rear
as described above in mind.


> Difference of opinion and revisions: a) found to be unsuitable due
to rear/flank attack anomaly, b) found to be unsuitable due to
complexity and ability to perform a devastating attack from a
position in front of the target. A further idea has been tested and
has received some support:

Flank Attacks
Flank attacks occur when the attacker starts from entirely behind a
line drawn from the front edge of the target, and finishes behind the same
edge.
This is irrespective of
the point of contact i.e. rear line, rear corner or flank edge.

Flank attack by Heavy Units
Denies Impetus, Bracing lost and causes the Target to fight with its
Flank/Rear FV. Target is automatically broken if outscored in melee
by any heavy enemy.
Rear attack by Light Units (SI, LI, LHI, LC, L2CH, LB)
Bracing lost, Target fights rear attacking Unit with Flank/Rear FV,
but Target fights to the front with Frontal FV-1 Vs all other in
contact that may not claim rear attacks.
If outscored by a Unit with Impetus the target is automatically
broken.

S: This is what we want to see implemented. There is no arguments when
this version is used.
Note (multiple attacks): If a heavy attacker qualifies for the Rear
attack, then the "attacked by heavy" specifications apply and
supersede other conditions
S: Unless we are adding a different modifier like +2 to rear attacks, there
is no reason to have separate names for flank attacks.


14b) Morale Rout Test
1. All units touching a massed unit that breaks check regardless of
direction.
2. Any unit (except if alone in its own division) in the rout path
(straight back to own table edge) is considered as blocking the massed
units' path to the base line, therefore is burst through and must
check.
3. Light units do not cause heavy units to check, but heavy units
cause ALL units to check.

Procedure:
A d6 roll of a "1" causes 1 BP to be applied to the testing unit, if
heavy infantry.
A d6 roll of "1-2" causes 1 BP to be applied to the testing unit, if
other type.
A unit with a General in base contact adds +1 to the d6 roll.

If BP loss causes a testing unit to break, it does so, and its rout
path traced back to its baseline. All additional tests caused by this
break are now carried out.

S: This what we use. We have no problems with it. The loss of BP can be
critical if it comes at the wrong time.


Phase 2 (not yet revised or added to in 2009)
This will include
1) anything that is thrown up by Phase 1 Testing
2) Specific Troops Type (PH, CATs LB, Schiltrons, Kiels etc).
3) Generals, sub-Generals.
4) Increase of terrain templates for `light' armies
5) -2 over ½ range (and -1 under ½ range?) for single base SI
6) Infliction of Fatigue by SI missiles (until a target is fully
fatigued where missile hits then inflict casualties)
7) Increase CR to include SI Divisions
8) Impetus support for Missile Troops
9) Status of LHI/LI as Key troops.
10) Impact on Antiquites/AoE of Phase 1 Rule Variant 7
11) Double sized terrain for Light Armies
12) PROT increase for Units in Shield Wall
13) LC Jav
14) Anything else.

S: Yes. I’d like to add one more tactical factor.
“+1 If opponent is deeper. If opponent is undressed, ignore.”

Thanks, Rodge
Steve
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