(happy new year all)

I second this thought of SPP's.



3 bracing:

"SP: Several comments. Once the melee commences unit cannot considered being
braced, especial if it won.
Phalanxes in "locked shields" could not move while in that formation."



Melee is not a stationary action. I understand why it was included -
players do not like the idea of a second unit delaying the charge and then
hitting on impact in the next turn, but this works fine with cavalry and
necessitates having a second heavy command in the area and not pulled in on
the first phasse of melee anyway, which is rare, so I see no reason for it
not to also apply to foot.

Fighting (which is after movement phase) = moving = no bracing.



RV 6 cav break off and RV 10 rear firing - I think they make better scenario
rules than general rules, given the lack of feedback, would support
'dropping' them from the process.



Mark



_____

From: ARMATI@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ARMATI@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
sfp55@...
Sent: 04 January 2009 08:04
To: ARMATI@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ARMATI] RV's, the State of the Nation. Steve's comments



In a message dated 1/3/2009 4:56:30 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rodger.w@virgin. <mailto:rodger.w%40virgin.net> net writes:

After 3 month play testing and discussion here is an overview of
where I believe we are at.
The things that need work are evident.
May I suggest that new threads are started for each variant that
needs work:

1) Core + 100 points
Change rule 14.1 Bonus Unit Procedure from 75 points to 100 points

Seems to have been adopted.
SP: It does give better games. Though you have to paint more figures for
the armies.

2) No deep except LC
Change rule 2.2 to:
`Heavy Infantry must form two sections wide.'

SP:For visual purposes we in LA continue to form all pike phalanxes deep.
However, out of LA, we will conform with the group.

7.9.3 `Heavy Infantry in Depth (counter to Impetus)'(p24)

Delete this rule
SP: Agreed.

7.8.6 `Shield Walls and Schiltrons' (p23)
Shield Wall
Change `A Shield Wall may be Deployed wide or in Depth' to `A Shield
Wall may only be deployed Wide'.
Shiltron
Change `A Schiltron must be deployed in Depth' to' A Schiltron must
be formed in Echelon' to qualify for Shiltron status.

All other current 7.8.6. rules remain unchanged.
SP: I still believe a schiltron 20 or more ranks should be deep.

Swiss Keils
Phase 2.

>Seems to be adopted but some debate on whether all WB should be wide
(see RV9 `Echelon' below for wide WB Vs Mounted). Schiltron and Keil
to be looked at Phase 2.

3) `Bracing' (stationary HI counter Impetus Vs all)
An unengaged HI unit that remains stationary may claim to "brace"
itself.
A braced unit receives 3 BPs when outscored frontally by a troop with
Impetus instead of being broken.

A Unit may not count as braced if either:
1. it is un-dressed
or
2. it is contacted by enemy to its Flank/Rear (as defined in RV12)
or
3. it may claim impetus against its opponent

Note 1: A unit that is braced when starting a melee keeps that status
until it moves or is contacted in flank/rear (as defined in Rules 12a
or 12b)
Note 2: If fighting both against a WB and a HC, a WB Unit will be able
to claim being braced against the HC (provided all other conditions
are satisfied) but not against the enemy WB.
Note 3: BP3 WB may claim bracing (but, unless they are veteran, it
will not change much the result if they lose their first round of
melee against impetus troops).
Note 4: Players may find it useful to use a marker next to unit which
remain stationary and therefore claim "bracing".

Seems to have been adopted.
SP: Several comments. Once the melee commences unit cannot considered being
braced, especial if it won.
Phalanxes in "locked shields" could not move while in that formation.

4) Removal of Phalanx (PH) from Rule 7.9.2 `Denying Impetus-
Stationary from a Previous Phase: Shield Walls, Schiltrons and
Phalanxes. `
PH do not now deny Impetus. Delete rule 7.9.1.6 Loss of Impetus (PH)
Also delete rule Number 6 from rule 7.9.1 `Loss of Impetus'
Note; all PH are therefore -1 pnt.

>Some dispute, although with high FV and `Bracing' I for one cannot
see why.

SP: I think it is the pikes. Until the unit was disordered a pike unit was
hard to beat by just charging it.

5) Stationary
`Stationary' may be claimed if the unit did not move in its last
movement phase.

SP: Does anyone dispute this?

7.8.2 Terrain advantage
Change
`The defending unit must be infantry (of any type) and must remain
stationary during its current movement phase in order to receive the
+1'
to `The defending unit must be infantry (of any type) and must remain
stationary during its last movement phase in order to receive the +1'

Seems to have been adopted.

6) Cavalry Vs Heavier Cavalry Break Off
All cavalry are allowed to break off if fighting heavier weight class
of cavalry where CATs, KN, Clibs, MA and H4CH are the heaviest class
HC, M2CH the medium class LH CM and L2CH are the lightest class.

Elephants may not break off from any, but Mounted may break off from
them.

All roll 1D6 to get break off (distance, interpenetration BP
infliction and enemy blocking as current rules)
1: Break
2,3: No break off
4,5,6: may break off
Note 1: Cavalry that break off are permitted to charge in again

SP: They would have to reorganize first surely?

Note 2: Usual rules for obligatory chargers and impetus apply.

Break-off direction is
1) directly to the unit rear if the enemy contact is on front edge or
front corner,
2) directly to the unit front if the enemy contact is on rear edge or
rear corner,
3) directly to the unit opposed flank if the enemy contact is on
flank edge.

Break-off is impossible:
1) if the unit is contacted by several enemy units which would
result in different break-off directions, or
2) if it inflicted BP or
3) if it broke an opponent.

Break-Off Conditions (p26, para 1)
The choice to attempt a Break-Off is made by the owning player. Break
-Off's may occur only when a unit is in melee contact against enemy
infantry or against heavier cavalry as outlined above

Breakthrough
P28 para 3,'Participating Units':
'A non engaged unit is entitled to a breakthrough maneuver if at
least one enemy unit it was in contact with that turn Broke'

SP: I believe that you can break off the frontal contact only. If you
attempted to break off a rear or flank attack their is a good chance the
unit
would rout instead.

Note: Breakthroughs are resolved after break-off.

7) Double Frontage SI
Change the unit size picture and figure basing so that Skirmishers
are two sections wide and at current depth with no other change to lists or
points

This works well for Skirmish infantry which are really in open order and are

spread out.

The rest of the changes will be commented on a later e-mail.


Steve

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